The Mincing Rascals 8.19.26: CTU suing IPI, minimum wage, toll hike, Natalie Harp

Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and you fill in the blank. Summer and Chevy go together like road trips and sunshine. Check out the full line of Chevy SUVs and trucks at your Chicago Land and Northwest Indiana Chevy dealers today. Chevy Drive Chicago. Today is Wednesday. It's August 19th, 2026, and it's 240 in the afternoon. Hi, this is John Williams. This is the Mincing Rascals podcast, the podcast for people who care about Chicago. You can hear me weekdays on WGN Radio. I'm on the air from 10 to 2. Eric Zohran Mamdani's on the podcast panel this week, the former Chicago Tribune columnist. He publishes the Picayune Sentinel on Substack. Marge Halperin is with us this week as well, the award-winning journalist and communications consultant, turn pundant, and community activist. And here's Steve Bertrand, too, the purveyor of the Steve Bertrand travel business. host of Steve Bertrand on Books, a podcast at wgmradio.com and everywhere. Longtime newsman at our place. Everybody's got, I want to plan that Steve Bertrand is an original member of the Mincing Rascals team back. I mean, I think we'll go back more than 10 years. Thank you, Eric. I appreciate that. So that was... I feel like everything John says to introduce me does reluctantly. So I appreciate you sort of standing up for me a little bit. How did I not introduce you with the same enthusiasm that I gave margin? The purveyor of travel in the books podcast. It's just a long list, Steve. He's tired. Tired by the time he gets to you. I used to have you guys introduce yourselves, but I thought in order to sort of get to the heart of the podcast, I would sprint through it more quickly. Clearly now we're not doing that because we're talking about the way I introduce everybody. Steve Bertrand, the purveyor of the Steve Bertrand travel business. Call Steve now at. Is that what you're waiting for, Steve? Well, if you want to, we've got to go to Prague and Vienna for the Christmas markets now. Now that you bring it up, thanks again there. Miss an accomplice. Yeah, ding, ding, ding. Austin Berg is not on the panel this week, although, boy, Austin's having a week, isn't he? He's probably glad he's not on because he might not be able to answer the questions we would ask. Here's one headline this week. CTU sues the Illinois Policy Institute and Liberty Justice Center, alleging ongoing smear campaign. The Chicago Teachers Union is not only suing those two organizations. They are specifically suing Austin Berg, the Illinois Policy Institute vice president of marketing. And he's a regular contributor here. And anybody that's listened to this podcast much knows that when the CTO and teachers come up, Austin is a...

It's a real critic of the Chicago Teachers Union and of Stacey Davis Bill Gates. He feels that too much of their money is dedicated to politics. They're a political organization. And he has on this podcast talked about how they have not been forthright with their financial statements. They're not making them readily available to the members of the union. Now, and I don't know why now, but right now they're going to sue him and those other two groups because they say what they're doing. Here's the quote, knowingly made false and malicious, defamatory accusations that are not protected by the First Amendment. They are absolutely protected by the First Amendment. I hope I'm not sticking up for Austin because he's a friend here. I'm sticking up, I think, for the First Amendment and their right to criticize or satirize the CTO. Isn't it delicious that it's the CTO with the thin skin, right? I mean, she's a firebomb thrower. And to sue over being insulted or demeaned is just it's just a beautiful thing. Yeah, she has accused some of her critics of being like intellectually disabled at times. I mean, she has not someone to be throwing stones. Well, I'm trying to figure out what it is. Like the headlines are that he, they use the word toxic or cooked books when they're finagling their financial statements. You get to say toxic. She and they are a toxic, are toxic. Uh-oh. Would you like to be added to the lawsuit? But, I mean, look up the definition of toxic. It doesn't mean you're wrong. It doesn't mean you're evil, but you can still be toxic. Cooked books maybe is a little more pejorative, but it was in a cartoon, and I think you get to say that, especially if it's... not done maliciously, or if you know that what you're saying is untrue and you're saying it intentionally. Liable and slander is very difficult to prove when someone is as public a figure as Stacey Davis-Bill Gates. Now, the union itself, it gets a little more complicated, I think. But I'm just fascinated by the timing of this, as you suggested earlier, John, especially in relation to the school board elections that are coming up in November. There are... I forgot half a dozen, maybe 10 candidates for school board president, but there's three that are being sort of rising above the crop as time goes on. And one of them is a CTU endorsed candidate. And calling attention to what the Illinois Policy Institute does, we pay attention to Austin because he's part of our little confab here. But the... General public, I don't know that the voters have seen that cartoon. They will see it now as it gets covered. And, you know, if they're looking to clean up the good name of the union before their candidate stands before the voters for school board president, I think they're going to have the opposite effect.

Elections, recent elections for the board itself and otherwise have shown the voting public in Chicago is a little nervous about having the union control the governance of the schools and drawing attention to their effort to do so. Right now, not so great. Everybody's going to be looking closely at elections starting Labor Day, which is right around the corner. I think that timing probably explains a lot that people think are going to start paying attention to this election coming up soon. Austin and I don't see eye to eye about a lot of things having to do with education. I'm not in favor of vouchers. I'm not in favor of paying of tax money going to pay for tuition at parochial schools and so on. But I do think that much of the, I mean, I read his substack, the last ward, and I'm, you know, personally fond of him, obviously. I find that a lot of his criticisms of the union are spot on. And he is behind a documentary that traces the rise of the more radical movement in the CTO and the more political the organization has gotten. I don't have any opinion necessarily about the validity of this accusation about the cooked books. You know, that's something for the courts to wrangle if they are going to deal with this case at all. But it does seem to me that John's point is spot on that calling somebody calling some union toxic they're saying that he's trying to to hurt the reputation of the union and in fact there's so much news about teachers union and strikes and all so to act like this this libertarian slash conservative think tank and its and its little website is drastically changing public opinion all it's going to do is going to get people to go, well, I got to go read these awful things in Austinburg. It's written. And I'm going to post some links to the Picayune Sentinel tomorrow with... The lawsuit, you can read the lawsuit and also link to the columns that Austin has written about this because they're long and they involve a lot of accusations about the behavior of the union leaders and why he thinks this is an organization that's out of hand. And again, I'm more sympathetic to the teachers union, but I also do understand. why he and many other people think that they've gone too far and that they're not sufficiently aware of their place in. the city as terms of like having to balance the needs of residents and taxpayers and children and teachers and and so on that this is we're part of this large organic being that is a city of chicago and that is a state of illinois and that the money isn't going to come from from out of the sky we have to figure out what needs to get cut if we're going to meet their demands the phrase stay in your lane is never plays well but they've got the whole bowling alley sometimes to the ct u they're all over the place and it wasn't at the c t u

that argued for kids being released from school for a day last year so they could exercise their freedom of speech? It's just laughable. It's too bad. The union, you know, has created this rift in public opinion where I think most people love their teachers. In general, love teachers who work with kids that they know and their own kids and are becoming increasingly apprehensive about the union's political power. power. And instead of aligning themselves more closely with individual teachers and the impact they have on our lives and our children's lives, they're playing in this, to Steve's point, you know, in this political lane that is really damaging their reputation, I think. I'm at Jackie Vaughn. It's a fight they don't even need to win. They shouldn't be picking this one. I wonder if this is part of it, too. Again, back to the Tribune. Here's how they described Austinberg, vice president of marketing at the Illinois Policy Institute. And then the story says IPI describes itself as a nonpartisan research organization, but it promotes free market and conservative. policy reform. And I don't think Austin would necessarily argue with that, although I don't really know that that's that relevant. Later in the story, though, they say that the CTO is a critic of Donald Trump. I know that when Austin talks about their policy positions, he reminds us that they don't get into the weeds on social issues. It's more economic issues, right? So they don't have a lot to say about transgender bathrooms. But they do have a lot to say about how money is spent at schools. Or abortion or guns or any other socialists. Right. All the red meat stuff, they stay away from that. And I think we have found in talking to Austin for six or seven years, over many years he's been joining us, that he is not socially conservative. And he is economically more conservative than I think everyone else on the panel. But, you know, he's not a fire breather. He's not a trumper. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to his profile after this story. If it goes anywhere, the judge might just throw it out and we might hear nothing. The other thing that I wonder about is, does the CTU really want to go into discovery on this? Because one of the criticisms that Austin has been launching and at the Policy Institute is that these books are. are, they're cooked is perhaps too strong a word, but they're secretive. They're not open with their members about where the money's going. Saute. Let's say saute. Oh, now you're going to get sued, Mr. Whitely seared books. Let's start a GoFund me for Austin. But I will say that to the extent that they dip into any social issue, the school vouchers is one. That's a church and state that I think transcends. You're right about all the other issues. Eric, I don't hear him say anything about that. But I would put school vouchers kind of in that category of cultural slash culture. Fair enough. That's fair enough. Although I, yes, I think that's fair enough. I mean, I get it. Which I agree with you. Yeah. Yeah, he and I, he and I have clashed on that. We also clashed on the progressive income tax. I mean, you know. Austin's kind of the two-un voter ID.

Right? And I don't know where you put that. But in the voter ID debate, he says that it's probably better for Democrats than Republicans. He did say that. And he also thinks that they should probably... give up a little to get a little on that. He doesn't draw a hard line. The next time he joins us, we'll hopefully have listened to all of this and we'll correct the record if we're misrepresenting him in any way. Well, I think we've talked to him enough. He doesn't need to add anything. He probably can't. He's not going to be able to talk about this lawsuit. His counsel is going to tell him. Shut up. Let your previous words do the talking. Let us handle this. So, and I respect that in terms of, you know, when you're sued, you've got to go hide in your turtle shell. Has everybody in the panel been sued before for something they said or wrote or promoted? You know, I got the station sued once. I don't think I was particularly the object of the suit. How about you, Marge? Surely you were. Certainly. What do you mean by that? No, not in a court of law, but the human, I was brought up on charges in the Human Relations Commission at one time, complaining I discriminated against white men when I worked for the Board of Education. I'm glad you put that behind you, too. You're much better now. I said something about somebody who was on the front page of the newspaper and I made fun of them or. caricatured them. Was it an ethnic group or what are we talking about? It was an ethnic group. It was a person whose ethnicity I then mocked. I was just kidding. You don't need to go into it. Well, but it was okay what I did. I mean, here was the point about that. We knew we were within our rights. They knew we were within our rights, but they also knew that we did not want the spectacle of defending something that I said that was being sarcastic or making fun of somebody. Making fun, I think, is even a stretch. But you get the point. So the company just wrote a check rather than go through the suit. That bothered me because I wanted them to stick up for me, and I didn't want, why does this guy get to get money just because I made fun of him on the radio? We get to do that. He was a public figure. We wrote a check for somebody because of something I said. I thought that was terrible. Imagine how Jimmy Kimmel felt. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yes, and I was fully absolved. Or George. Like George Stephanopoulos, for instance, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely. I was part of a lawsuit that was filed against the Tribune for some coverage of the Janina Carrico murder case that one of the attorneys who prosecuted prosecuted.

Dougan? No, not, no, not Dugan Cruz and Hernandez and Buckley in that case. I thought that they had been misrepresented in a Tribune news story, not one of my columns, but I was deposed and, you know, that was, it was a rough experience. I, you know, I wasn't personally sued, but it was a really eye-opening and tough experience to go through the preparation. The Tribune ended up winning that lawsuit, and I ended up taking the stand, and then the... they started cross-examining me and our attorneys objected and they went back into chambers and came back and dismissed me after like three questions. How about that? I've never shown the courage to say anything worthy of the lawsuit. It's funny because you always spoke on the radio as a newsman, so maybe your expressions would be more careful, but therefore more scrutinized too. Boy, if you said anything that crossed the line, I could see somebody. I think they would have more of a case to go after a Steve Bertrand than a John Williams, just given our tenure on the radio. Also on the local scene, Alexei Junulius has proposed raising the minimum wage in Chicago to $22 an hour. He's running for mayor. J.B. Pritzker gifted himself with $65 million of his own money. And Darren Bailey wants to eliminate tolls. Look on it, I just think that it's so... Nice that Alexi's able to put those TV campaign commercials out now about all the wonderful things he do as Secretary of State if he's reelected. And they happen to coincide with his run for mayor. That's just a great coincidence for Alexi. So he's running all these sort of generic TV spots. Oh, rather generically. Personality building spots that will serve him in his race for mayor. Does he have his shirt off in the ads or is he going to show? Not the one I've seen, though. He's great abs. No, I said great ads. And then there's J.B. who gives himself $65 million like he needs money to win reelection for governor, any more than Alexi needs a lot of money to win re-election for Secretary of State, Eric. I mean, we've talked about running for two offices at the same time. That's essentially. what the two of them are doing. Alexei specifically and J.B. eventually. I mean, J.B. doesn't need $65 million to run for governor, does he? He's not going to need that to beat Darren Bailey, whose campaign doesn't seem to be getting off the ground at all. If you take that $65 million and you add to that the $20 million or so in Alexi's Warchest, you'd probably have enough money to... fund $22 an hour minimum wage for all the businesses that are on the border of Chicago inside the city limits that are going to really, I think, suffer against their suburban counterparts and their suburban counterparts that any business just across the city line, which will be paying significantly less and be able to charge significantly less. I'm all for raising the minimum wage. I feel like it should be... the same everywhere, that the idea of a city carving out $22 an hour, which again, I think that's good. I wish it were that way in Evanston and in Rockford and Moline and Cairo and everywhere in the state, everywhere in the country, it should be $22 an hour. It's absurd that it's not. But the idea of raising it to that level in the city.

Strikes me as something that could be really damaging to city businesses. You think it should be the same minimum wage for a teenager? A 16-year-old working as a bus boy should get $22 an hour, Eric? I guess, yeah, I think so. I mean, I guess you could create a 16 to 18 year old minimum wage. It's slightly lower. I hadn't really thought about that. Michigan has that, I believe. This happens to me on the podcast. I get asked a question that I've never, ever thought about. I do four hours of this a day. It's not a big deal. So I offer an opinion. And Alexis plan would also have a carve out for tipped workers. I even think smaller businesses might not have to pay 22. And it wouldn't roll it out until 2030 or 2032. So it would be a gradual increase to $22 an hour. I think. Interesting part of this is it appears he's trying to wade into more progressive territory than he's been associated with. Johnson has not announced that he's running for re-election, but I expect he will. I think we all expect he will. And he's got the lane to himself for the moment. His allies aren't going to run against him. And Janulius needs to put a little more air between himself and Susanna Mendoza, for example, and maybe some of the others. as they filter into the campaign officially. And I think he's trying to just put a peg in there for a progressive cause and repositioned his... Lane a little bit. I don't know that he'll succeed in it, but that's how I read that idea. And that you promise it doesn't mean you have to do it. Read my lips. No new taxes. Taxes went up. Darren Bailey's going to eliminate tolls. You will not have to pay a toll on the Illinois tollway system. I'd run on that too. I mean, why? Trump isn't going to bring us into any new war. I know. It's like whenever a politician promises something that they don't deliver, I fault the voter as much as the politician, if it's pretty obvious that they can't accomplish that. I don't know the $22 an hour is the same thing as free tolls. The Tribune was actually interested in their editorial today on the math of that. They haven't seen it yet, but they like the idea. And I think it's absurd. First of all, you should have to pay for use of the tolls, the tollway, maybe not as much as they're asking. roads do need to be maintained. I don't like the idea that they would drain public transportation in the city. This is part of Bailey's plan. No, I'm not looking at the Tribune editorial right now. I read it this morning, and my recollection is they were talking about the fact that it would leave some incredibly large hole in the budget for road repair and they have to...

take money from the city and streets and say, I mean, so I think they were actually kind of saying, well, okay, it sounds nice, but really casting a hairy eyeball on how much money it was going to cost and where that money is going to come from. And that's more on brand for the Tribune than saying, yeah, we like this idea, period. So I think there was a very, a very nuanced take from the Tribune in this morning. Yeah, well, maybe I'm overcharacterizing it, but I mean, we're mischaracterizing it, but they didn't say, this is nuts. You can't get it. it done, you won't get that done. I'll side with you on that, Eric. So my question is, if you're driving from Spokane to Biloxi, and you drive through the Illinois tollway system, Do you ever, I mean, do those people never pay, do they? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if you're here all the time and you're in the state and you've got a transponder you're paying, but if you're a one-time scoff law, do they, I mean, so it seems like maybe the locals are paying a disproportionate amount. I don't know. That's a genuine question. I think it plate gets red. Well, I think that's partly why states have cooperative arrangements. So I have my iPass. It's accepted in Indiana and Michigan, which I just drove to Canada, and all the states just charge against. Come back, March. It's not that bad. Come back. It's okay. It did come back, but I'm not saying I wouldn't leave again. It was lovely. But at any rate, you know, they all use the iPass. I think that's one reason why they're reciprocal. I can't. I guess I could peel it off my window when I drive in Indiana, but I don't. I could be like, John, do you still hold yours up in the window? I don't know. I just hold it up and then hope the gate goes up because the Bill Gates don't work anyway in Indiana. So the gate goes up, but then I put it back in the cubby. But I think that is part of Steve, how we capture out-of-towners. But there probably are a lot of out-of-towners who don't pay as well, right? Oh, I'm sure that's true. I think you're... I didn't go after them. Haven't you ever gotten a letter from Tennessee or so? I got a speeding ticket in Georgia, I think it was, not too long ago. And they were, you know, I paid it because I don't want them to send their bill collectors up to me. The Tribune said that... that the tolls raise about $1.7 billion this year, which is money that's got to come from somewhere. And they add that user fees like toll roads are about as good as it gets because the cost applies directly to the person benefiting from a service rather than tapping people who rarely drive on the toll road. So they're kind of in favor of tolls as user fees. And they point out that, yeah, they like the idea of free stuff. Who doesn't? But $1.7 billion is used. in large part to repair the roads that we have. And it's not going to happen. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, or, or, uh, or, uh, no foreign wars. Voters, I feel like smarter voters don't make their choice based on a specific and rather small proposal like that. It's one thing at Trump voters. We're looking at big picture items. No more wars and better economy.

Over the weekend, she saw this thing that included Maria Pappas. It said that she is one of the people who's running for re-election as Cook County Treasurer. And she's also running for mayor. Well, she unloaded on him in a profane series of texts, calling him all kinds of names. Texts, not tweets. These were private, not public? These were private texts. And he publicized him. And he then issued a memorand to the Cook County Inspector General calling for her to be investigated for harassing him and threatening him and unprofessional behavior and also their nonsense. And what I don't understand is... First of all, you know, this was a private conversation, and yeah, Maria Pappas used some very salty language, but salty language is not proving to be any kind of political liability these days. There's no question in my mind that swear words are no longer out of bounds for politicians. So this is not going to hurt her that way. All it does makes Richard Boykin and Willie Wilson look bad because it... It's going to call attention to the fact that Willie Wilson doesn't write his own. It says from the desk of Willie Wilson. It's not from the desk of Willie Wilson. And Richard Boykin, going in front of the microphones yesterday to take umbrage at this, only underscores that. I don't see the advantage to anybody in this situation. It reminds me a little bit of the CTU lawsuit against the Illinois Policy Institute is, what are these people thinking? Why are they making a big deal about this? When things like this happened and you're like annoyed, Just let it go. This is not something worth fighting over. It's not something worth calling to the public's attention because all it's going to do is bring to the fore the fact that Willie Wilson is issuing statements that Willie Wilson didn't write over and over. It's a standard Willie Wilson will never have to respond to or react to because Willie Wilson is never going to win an election. I don't know how you not cover someone, but he's not a joke. But he's not a viable candidate. No, I think that's 10%. He posts 10%. No, he could be a swing. I mean, well, that's what you're saying. He's not a joke. I mean, he's a candidate and people do vote for him, but he's not going to win the election is what you're saying, right, Steve? Yeah. Right. But he influences the result when he gets in and around 10%. I can't read the best parts of Maria's. I mean, the salt, if you will, in these are expletives that are more than salty. She's dropping the F bomb and the S bomb in these things. What a bleep turn. She said that's the way friends talk to each other. It's like black room talk. Well, the Blagojevich's talk that way, and they were married. Why a bleep turncoat, after all I did for you, you piece of bleep, I am not a declared candidate, bleep, what a user letter you are.

You have no character. Maybe it's how you were raised. Boy, how stupid am I to have bet on you? This ain't over, Richard. I love that she just owned up to the language, though. She said, yeah, those were my words. That's the way I talked. Oh, we totally. And it's every time I talk to Maria Pappas off the air and said, how's it going? She responded with a very salty phrase. Yeah. Every time. You never slipped on the radio, though. I mean, she was able to edit herself. And so I don't know. She doesn't even seem to be disturbed by the public release of this, right? I mean, I don't think Maria Pappas is going to poll very well. She might not even poll that Willie Wilson's 10%. I think she's an example of somebody who's... Done very well running for an office that nobody paid much attention to, you know, and then fooling herself into thinking that means she's extremely popular. Running for mayors, a whole different game. And I don't see her as a standout candidate in this race. Did this anyone else? I don't either. And she's 77 years old, which I don't mean to be ages. But that's, I think voters aren't looking for new and fresh voices, maybe someone who could be mayor for a while rather than, you know, one terms and like that. So I think that will. She's 77. She's 77. She's 77? She looks great on the, that's her on the calendar in my office, right? Isn't that Maria Pappas calendar? Yeah. And Willie Wilson is 78 to just... Well, how old is Donald Trump? He is 78. He's 80. He's 80. He's 80. He's 80. I want to say one thing in defense of Maria Pappas. She doesn't need my defending, but I voted for her the first time I had a chance to when she was running for Cook County Board Commissioner. And this would have been in the late 80s or early 90s. I don't know when. And I did it... mostly because she was standing under the arch at the Wrigley building and just shaking people's hands. I mean, she just was out there. You know, she's been this people person shaking hands. I'm Maria Pappas. Please vote for me. There weren't people around her. She was like William Proxmire in Wisconsin at the time, you know. She loves a parade. But she loves a parade. But, I mean, she was just out there on her own asking for votes, and I respected that at the time. Yeah, you've spoken to her. I've spoken to her, too. She's charming. But I'm not sure that that's going to be enough in this election. So. Eric, I think you're right. We're seeing all over the country younger candidates. We've had all these oldsters, so many octogenarians in Congress and in office elsewhere. And younger voters are looking for representation as well, they should. Speaking of these elections, I want to get to the Jon Ossoff and Donald Trump stories in just a second. But I suppose you all notice that that poll that had Francesca Hong in Wisconsin doing so well.

They were polling in California as well. Turns out that was not a legitimate poll. That was a quote-unquote experiment by that company that said, we're going to go ahead and put this out there to see if it gets into the conversation or influences the election in some way. I am bothered by this. And Eric, when we talked about it on the radio, it didn't seem to be so disturbed by it. But I don't see the point or value of trying to skew or discourage votes because you want to put out some bogus information. I could see how that would be influential, but I don't see how it's valuable. Let me clarify. I just think that we already knew the answer to this. experiment they were running, which is they've studied this, political scientists have studied this over the years, that polling results influences voters. People jump on bandwagons, and it influences donors. And there are a number of countries, I'm not sure how many, that actually ban pre-election polling, I think partly for that reason, which is that it skews the election results. The fact is I looked some more after we spoke, John, that Hong was pretty far up in other polls as well and more credible polls. The poll in Los Angeles that showed Karen Bass out in front by 16 points or something like that, that... poll is one of the only polls, maybe the only poll in that mayor's race. And that's really cynical. That makes me think that maybe they were trying to skew the election in her favor. I don't know what they were up exactly up to up to with Hong if they were trying to boost her candidacy or I'd just add their voices to the mix or maybe they were trying to establish credibility in Wisconsin so their L.A. poll results could be validated. I don't know. It's a curious thing, but I don't stand by that experiment because I don't think it needs to be run. We already know the results. I would also say the primaries are very different kinds of elections dealing with different voter base. There are a lot of differences between a general election and a primary. They may be easier to manipulate in some ways. But you're right, Eric, that wasn't the only poll that showed her that far ahead. But in a primary like this, she wasn't very well known. And depends on how the questions are asked, what the content is, you can skew a poll by your phrasing. And often there'll be, you know, those push polls that'll tell you. you something about the candidate. They want you to know, and now would you vote for her or him? So there's ways to skew the result. But it does seem that she was further ahead, and the closer it got to the actual election or election days, because they do have some early voting mail. And the more people knew about her, and the more some of her concerning comments from the past came out. And her...

however big her lead was, it narrowed very quickly right at the end. And that's a phenomenon that's sort of natural in a cycle. And on the other hand, I totally agree the polls can skew. And as someone who tries to help get out the vote for Democratic candidates, I worry about complacency. I don't want a whole lot of poll. talk about. Oh, so rather than helping, it might actually work against you. If you say she's up 20 points, I don't need to go out and vote for her. I wonder what the agenda was then. Were they trying to help her or hurt her? If you, say, in California or in Wisconsin, I wonder if the agenda was to help her hurt the candidate. If you are discouraging Democrats from voting for the progressive, then you're actually helping her opponent. Again, it's about timing, though, because if you're early and people think, oh, she's a nobody, she can't win. Oh, look, she's 12. 20 points ahead, maybe she can win. At some stage, it can fuel the campaign, but... It also creates a target, puts a target on her back, and people bring out these comments as they did close to the end, and the mood shifted. So it can do both. Well, then how does that apply to the Brandon Johnson run for mayor where he was at 2 or 3 percent, right? That was fairly early at the cycle before people knew him. But it fuels the coverage, though, doesn't it, Eric, that if nothing legitimate or otherwise, if there's that number out there, suddenly the press has to talk about it. And it even influences who gets on the debate stage often. Oh, good point. And so I really think, and a number of news organizations boasted in the aftermath that they did not publish these, I think, median strategies, polls because they couldn't verify. Yeah. with the methodology or that they were a legitimate polling thing. So that speaks well of those media outlets. I don't know who actually reported those polls. Well, even if a poll is correct, like scientifically accurate, legitimate and accurate, maybe there is no value other than to the candidate. That is, maybe I shouldn't be talking about it on the radio so much. What's the point of telling somebody? telling the audience about somebody who's ahead when they haven't had a chance to vote on that yet. I think that's true. And it's also, you know, it's a snapshot in time. And I think that's part of what caught up with Hong early on. There was a window. At first, she wasn't known at all. And then people started, you know, getting interested in her. She jumped in the polls and they found out more about her and were less interested. I mean, in the end, she only lost by one. percent, right? Less than one percent? Very close, yeah. It's still very close. But I will say the campaigns I've worked on, those horse race numbers are not helpful.

there's a whole other layer of polling that happens when you find out what issues will move of voters, what I was referring to earlier, when we tell you something and then ask, you know, now, how do you feel about this candidate or this candidate's opponent? You want to know what issues will resonate. You want to develop messaging from polling. But when you run a campaign, the horse race thing doesn't matter that much. And to the extent it does, you hire your own and make it a private poll. Keep it to yourself. Don't tell everybody. Yeah. And just one last thing about the Hong case then. I wonder to what degree the poll helped or hurt her. I wonder how the vote would have gone in the absence of that. And I wonder how her vote total would have gone, were it not publicized, that she didn't like Thanksgiving and holidays and was kind of an oddball on the internet. I was trying to say that as a person who loves turkey gravy and only has it once a year, I'm glad she lost. because that was close she disavowed the statement but it was it was something that was going to haunt her the general election as well i just want to say one more thing about polls last year at this time the the preseason polls and college football for both the coaches in the associated press had indiana in 20th place and they went on to win with an undefeated season so and these are people who supposedly know what's happening know what's going on so i just want to point that out that Even polls of experts can be really wrong. In all seriousness, too, I think it's good for the Democrats that she lost in that had she won that Turkey debate would have gone nationwide. Yeah. In every case or campaign around the country, the party wants to get rid of Thanksgiving. Well, it wasn't just that. She also doubled down on comments about abolishing defunding police in a pretty dramatic way and some other comments that would not have been helpful. at this time. So I wonder what your assessment was then Marge of what happened yesterday in Florida and elsewhere. Did the progressive wing of the Democratic Party benefit or not? There are some mixed results out of Florida for sure. There were some real surprises and DSA candidate did win in a congressional race, I think. There was also a pretty overlooked race in Pennsylvania in the district that included Butler County where Trump's, the first assassination attempt happened. And that was like a plus 13 district. I'm looking quickly for my notes about it. There's a Democratic... candidate, there was a special election, so this was not a primary, who won over a Republican in a state house district, north of Pittsburgh, the Butler County District. Trump carried that district by 18 points. And the GOP incumbent who won it before in 2024, won by 30 points. He resigned earlier this year through. One of these scandals or another, I didn't trace what the scandal was in this case. But to have a Democrat win a state election, a state house election and district like that is another very interesting sign. And we're seeing that happen around the country, these special elections. And since Trump took office and started his liberation tariffs and his war and all these other things, Democrats have done very well in special elections on a local.

Yeah, and so the last question I'll ask any of you, but Marjou particularly maybe is we talked about this last week. I wonder if the shading of the Democratic Party in this progressive direction is going to help it or hurt it in the long run. Is this good? The tents getting bigger or they're going to paint themselves into a minority of voters. They're not going to attract undecideds or even some mainstream Democrats. They're sure not going to get any crossover. Even if progressives aren't winning everywhere, Hong didn't win in Wisconsin. It was close, so I wonder if that movement is beneficial to the party. Oh, I do think so. Who is not going to support fair wages? access to health care, affordable health care, lowering prices, taxing the wealth in this country, when the wealth gap has become so large and the greediness from the White House on down to current leadership is what's making our groceries too expensive. I don't think the progressive brand is damaged at all, and I don't know why people who are fed up with how the government is being run now would not be attracted by these messages. Half to citizenship is part of that, too. Aren't those familiar arguments when it comes to fair wages and things, and they're countered by Republicans saying, yes, but you're going to lose your 401k or your retirement's going to go or you're going to lose jobs because of this? I mean, that debate's already been being had for decades, hasn't it? Yeah, but people who are hurting now don't have 401Ks. They're paying gas prices that are through the roof. Farmers in Trump's own districts can't afford the diesel to run their equipment and they're choosing to plant fewer crops and have a lower yield because they can't afford to tend to it. It's a much different debate right now. Still, I think you're cherry picking the debate points because in the meantime... rightly or wrongly, they're going to say things about Zohran Mamdani and they point to Hong and they will talk about defunding the police and all of these other things that are being ascribed to the progressive movement or the capital DSA. That's baggage that the Democrats will have to carry through the election. And I don't think that's beneficial. That's why I asked the question. I think it weighs a lot less than the baggage the Republicans are carrying right now. Georgia Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff is running for re-election and said this week that Donald Trump, quote, golfs and trade stocks. See, he doesn't want to do the job. He wants to build his ballroom and travel with Natalie on their apparently defenseless flying palace gifted by the emir of Qatar. So he said the quiet thing, which now gives reporters the opportunity to bring it up more publicly. It was an odd series of questions at a publicity op for the president as he was championing a teenage lifeguard who saved a younger boy. As the young men sat there, Trump was also asked about his relationship with Kim Jong-un. He then rather shouted down a CNN reporter with quiet, quiet, quiet, your fake news, quiet.

The Kim Jong-un question is especially important and deserved an answer. I don't know if he needs to talk about this Natalie Harp thing, who Maggie Haberman this week described as his binky. But she said, really, that was the word she used. She is his security blanket. Even Jon Ossoff was not suggesting that they were having a relationship, but rather that she's just always hanging around. She's the human copying machine. Yeah, there's a story about Trump on his way with a motorcade to one of his court appearances early on. They didn't have room for her in the car, and she jumped in the trunk of an SUV. She's little nuts. I mean, there could be a psycho thing happening here. But on the other hand, anyone who spends this much time. with the president, we ought to know more about her and her background and her contributions to policy. Why? Why? Because we know that whoever gets Trump's ear, last, is the one he listens to. I haven't seen any reporting that said that she is that influential, that she's actually weighing in on policy decisions. She writes his social media. She does some of the social media stuff and she hands him supporting documents and memes. that makes him feel good about it. But have you read where she was weighing in on the war in Iran, for instance, or the tariffs? I have not. No, but I do see that there are some advisors in the White House who do not like her influence without having seen a big... example. There's also reports that she controls his social media accounts or has access to them, so some of the things that get posted, and that she leads notes around for him saying things like, you know, you mean more to me than anyone else. What about that? I mean, so that's, so what about that? Creepy. So what about that? What about that? I mean, creepy. But go back to the social media, because now that Trump is charging $100,000 a month premium and their market-moving posts, she has her fingers on the keyboard. That matters. She's talking in his ear all the time. I feel like we need to know more about who she is and what she is talking to him about if she's just... pumping him up to make him feel better. That's not harmless. If she were a male, would we be saying? All of that was true. I was going to say, John, if all of that is true, and you make a compelling argument, you all do for that. If she looked like Stephen Miller, Aesoft probably wouldn't have brought her up, right? I mean, it was the hint that she's his little girl candy that is the reason of the motivation behind bringing her up. I think that's part of it. He was vulnerable to that accusation. He didn't make it clearly. It was innuendo. I hope this inspires people to go and read or see John Offsoff's entire speech from Sunday in Atlanta. It's a barn burner. And one little mention of Natalie Harp has drawn a lot of attention. But it was a great speech. I excerpted big honks of it in the Tuesday edition of the Picayun Sentinel. And I hope people can go read that because it's a really good speech. And I hope this doesn't.

derail people from thinking about that. Assoff has denied strongly that he's interested in running for president in 2028. He's running for reelection in the Senate. He's 39 since we're talking ages of candidates. I am very impressed with him. As a communicator, a politician, I think he's probably the best spokesman right now for where I hope think and hope the Democratic Party is going to be. And my guess is that once he wins re-election, he might rethink all the calls for him to run for president. So I'm kind of hoping that he enters the race. Why do you think he brought up Natalie Harp then? It was in a whole speech, as Eric is saying. He was talking about... First of all, the USS Abraham Lincoln, where the sailors are some reports jumping overboard because the conditions are so bad. And by the way, there was a report out in the last 24 hours that the reason that they've not been able to relieve anyone at the Lincoln is because of how badly Iran bombed the... center in Bahrain where they have been based, where they've been basing the replenishing supplies. That place was destroyed as the reporting. So now the replenishing stations 2,000 miles away. So that's the context. He starts there about while the sailors on the Lincoln fight his war. He drains our munitions and oil reserves. The president sleeps through his meetings, golfs and trade stocks. He wants to build his ballroom and travel with Natalie on their flying palace gifted by the Emir of Qatar. Well, that was the whole context. So he just slipped that in there. I agree with Eric is pretty masterful. The hits on there were every word was another hit on Trump and his behavior. Maybe Assef doesn't care. Maybe he's enjoying the dust up that he's now created. But people are more interested in the Natalie harp, those two words than in... the Abraham Lincoln words or the other things. Maybe I'm mischaracterizing the public's fascination with this, but every report I saw, I was disappointed. Eric Zohran Mamdani's coverage was much more comprehensive than I wanted it to be. I just wanted to know the Natalie Harp stuff, but no, Eric wanted us to read about the context of the speech. All those words. Yeah, but, you know, if you think about in terms of what I said earlier about the baggage the Republicans are carrying, with Natalie Harp, they just threw a couple more pounds into the suitcase. There's no harm in that from a... party standpoint and strategic standpoint, I'd also say for Assov to say he's not interested is absolutely the right thing right now. Let him be drafted and say, well, okay, apparently everybody wants me to run now that I've been reelected. And if he's reelected with a big margin in that state, there'll be no stopping him. I feel like the Natalie Harp story is one that...

is meant to raise little bit questions among the sort of moral majority types who support trump that i'll bet milania is not all that thrilled with the natalie harp story the fact that this woman is within them at all times and leaving him these sweet notes uh i don't think any of our spouses would be all that happy if if uh around our residents we would be finding little notes from uh attractive members of the opposite sex i you know it's like it's just one of the things that's kind of It's meant to be a little tiny... little tiny tweak. And it motivates Democrats for us more than Republicans. They don't seem to care about Trump's past or his pre-elections. I couldn't help but notice that she looked a little like his daughter, too, which is a type that he seems to favor to begin with. Ivanka. That was the creepy part to me. I thought, oh, gee, the first time I saw that, that was the first thing that jumped out at me. But I also thought that to that young woman, it is. almost unfair if the implication or suggestion is that she's a creep or weird or is having some sort of relationship with the president we don't know about. There's no evidence of that. And however devoted she is to him, I think... is not inappropriate or not our business. And if she were a male, I don't think this conversation would have been happening, Steve. She were male, she wouldn't have the job. Come on. Didn't Trump have one of these in his first term two? Hope? I think her name was Hope. Sure. Hopi Hope. Didn't Laura Loomer? Laura Loomer's probably pissed off. This is where she wants to be. She got iced out. But when you look at, if a man had written these things, we would still be talking about it. Those quotes that now, they're in Haberman's book, I think, but there's like one I'm looking at, you're the alpha and the omega, the be all and end all, what would I be without you? That's not, that's more than loyalty. She had cancer and attributed her survival to Trump somehow, a Trump policy or Trump approval of some drug or something, but she had bone cancer. survived it. If it seems a little bit much, I'm like, well, she's in a very weird space. She's a young lady. I'm seeing like Kathy Bates in misery here. Yes, I thought of that too, but I thought it was over the top and I didn't want to bring it up. You, Marge, editing. Wow, look at that. You thought I had no parameters whatsoever. No guardrails, but I'm happy Steve brought it to the for. I'm sorry. Now I've done actually what I was arguing against doing, spending too much time on something I don't think warrants that much coverage. I think that what's happening with Abraham Lincoln is very interesting. I thought the president's cozying back up again to Kim Jong-un was strange and distancing himself from another ally. Not only did he say he was going to bomb the...

poop out of Oman, but who's trying to negotiate the settlement on this war, but then he is suggesting that we should pull back our support of South Korea, not participate in training exercises, because they didn't volunteer enough to help in the war in Iran. I don't understand that. I don't see the long game in any of the things that he's been doing lately. He's not doing any of the things you would advise him to do. And now he wants to blame South Korea for losing the war. You know what he would say to you right now if he were here? Quiet, quiet, quiet. Piggy. Who are you? I mean, literally, he went down that path again with the Holmes, I think it was, where he just kept telling her to quiet. Who are you with? Quiet. CNN, fake news. Fake news. Be quiet. And then he turned to the little kid that was there, you know, the lifeguard, 16-year-old boy, and he says, you see how she's being disrespectful? Would you be disrespectful like that? The kid doesn't say anything. And then he says, see, this kid knows that you're misbehaving. I mean, it was just a bizarre scene. That's when the report and the press court needs to stand up in unison and say, Mr. President, that's a valid question. Please answer it. Yeah, the next question did not. Not try to get their own question in, but say, boom, that's a fair question. That never happens. Please answer the question. It never happens, and it's part of the irresponsibility and the challenge of covering this president. They're still trying to cover him like they'd cover any other president when he doesn't act like any other president. So, you know, there was a great editorial. on Substack and an alternate this week from someone who says, why isn't a single newspaper calling for Trump's resignation when you see that he brought us into this unwinnable war without a plan? He's depleting our military supplies. I'll make the list. I've made the list before. But you would think there would be some voices in the media who are trying to hold him more accountable. So for the first time in my life, I seriously considered the fact that the United States might drop a nuclear weapon on a country. And I know that sounds, oh, I hope it sounds crazy and ridiculous and outrageous, but we are not going to win this war in Iraq the way it's being in Iran, yeah. In Iran, I'm sorry, the way it's being fought. We're not going to put soldiers on the ground in Iran. What are the safeguards against him ordering a nuclear strike? And I, and I'm, it had never occurred to me before, but I'm just watching some coverage, like, oh my God, this could be how it happens. Well, they've purged the Jags, you know, and also any generals who might disagree with what Pete Hegseth was doing. There were voices originally opposing this war. They were ignored and ultimately purged. I do wonder what would happen if he determined to do that. If people around him would finally say, no, we can't do this and grab the football from him or whatever. Right.

It would be insane to do that. And I, well, I'll stop there. So what happens if he were to say, we need to do this? I mean, legally, there are mechanisms that could stop him or are there not? No. It's amazing to me how much Donald Trump's whims or strategies. are the law, like the fact that we're in this war, or what was the thing that I was reading today that the president wants our aircraft carriers to go back to steam power for the launching of the airplanes? I'm like, what am I reading here? How is that something for which he should have an opinion? And yet, in fact, it's going to cost billions of dollars to... retrofit the aircraft carriers because he wants them to go on steam rather than electromagnetic launching. Like, I don't even know about this. And if I was told about it, I would say, well, I'm not the expert. And then if my opinion was different than the experts, why isn't there a mechanism to say, sir, we know you're the president, but you don't get to decide this. You don't know anything about aircraft carriers. But in fact, that's happening now. I can't get my head around that. We'll end it there and ask you guys if you have a recommendation, a cautionary light, or a full stop for something. Steve, you usually have a book for us. What's the latest one in your queue? I don't know if I talked about this last time, but the book that I really enjoyed was called Hope House. Did I bring that up? Hope House is a novel written by a young man whose father in real life ran these homes. for delinquents. So we'd have five or six or ten delinquents living in a house and how the father would try to lead them toward rehabilitation. And the son often was living in the house with them or spending all this time with his dad in this house. And it's just a great story of male friendship and bonding and... community and where we are. There's the hopelessness that some of these kids feel are the hopeless situations they're in, but also holds them accountable. It's a really good book. It's called Hope House. It's by Joe Bond, but if you don't mind, I wasn't going to plug that one. I was actually going to stay out of my podcast this week. Wow. It's a show called The Bate or Bate. And it's from Riz Ahmed. I don't know if you know Riz. He was the guy who played the drummer who couldn't hear. And I can't remember the name of the movie now, several years ago. But he's a young man. He's maybe Pakistani. I'm not sure, but British. He's a British rapper. And he plays this underappreciated actor. He started with a big, big. many accolades when he became an actor, the up-and-coming actor, then he had nothing. So he got this audition to maybe become the next James Bond, which would be a shock. There's never been a man of Asian descent or Middle Eastern descent to have played James Bond. And so they're walking out of the audition and the woman with him says, don't go out the front door. The paparazzi is there. You don't want anyone to know you did this. And he's thinking, yes, I do.

So he feigns some reason why he has to go back in the building and then goes out the front door. They take his picture and all of a sudden now he's international news as maybe the next James Bond. And what it's really about is how what people... will do, if they'll sell out their own culture or their own family for particular fame or fortune, and how those of us who are in the majority sort of culture will view those coming in. So the hate of a potential Pakistani, James Bond, but then also his battles within the family. You know, the one guy says, what did that? I can't think of the current James Bond. But did he die? What happened? Did he die? Did I miss it? It's called bait. Is it a miniseries or is it a mini series? It's a mini series, Eric. Yeah, thank you. And it's on, I think it's on Netflix, but it's easily found. And the book, Hope House, is that a novel or a nonfiction? It is a novel. It's a great, it's a very good novel. And, you know, you hear these stories and he knows these kids, you know, because he grew up with kids around. There was one little kid who they called him Peanut, and all he liked was to write up and down escalators. You know, he would just get the biggest kick out of riding up and on escalators. There was another kid who came in and right away was the hard ass and took over the house. And then he went away and everyone expected success. And what they expected didn't happen. And it was heartbreaking. It's a really, it's really worth your time. It's up on the podcast right now. I'm sorry to be such a, you know. self-promoter, but it's Steve Bertrand on books. You can listen to Joe Bond talk about his book. Incidentally, producer Pete Whispers in my ear, Sound of Metal is the name of that movie that you referenced. And Pete, who watches a lot of movies, says, it's great. It's a great movie as well. Oh, yeah, it is. A lot there from Steve. Maybe a little less next time, Steve. This is supposed to be a shorter part of the podcast. I saw bait. I second that, and I'll only add to all this that Steve has already said. It's also about the self destructive instincts that some people have. Didn't have to go so hard for him. His instincts were not good in that one example and many others. But I thought it was a great series too. I'm going to get light and fluffy and recommend an ice cream place. It's a nitro cafe on South Cottage Grove in Bronzeville. And nitro ice cream, I don't know if you've ever been exposed to this. I had not. They make it in a KitchenAid mixer, and they pour nitrogen in it, and it freezes up the ice cream. It's a little slow. Don't expect a quick scoop, and you're out of there. But you can watch it as the solution hardens. You pick your flavor. They also have some really good empanadas and alcoholic. milkshakes, spiked milkshakes that are pretty tasty. But it's really fun to watch, and if you have kids, bring them along. I brought my grandson, and it was a form of entertainment. Come on a Monday, and they have an amateur open mic night that is entertaining in some intended and unintended ways, perhaps. Is it like dipping dots? No, no, they make a liquid ice cream.

with the flavors that you choose, and then they pour in the liquid nitrogen and run the mixer and it freezes it up. Well, you just made me think of Brandy Alexander's. Ooh, a good Brandy Alexander is a beautiful thing. You can get one there. It's called the Nitro Nostalgia Cafe on Cottage Grove. I'm giving a yellow light to a bestselling book called Strangers, A Memoir of Marriage by Bell Burden. I don't know if anyone has read that on the panel. It's a big New York Times bestseller this year. And essentially it's a... A very wealthy woman in New York from socialite who discovers that her husband is having an affair, and he leaves her with basically no regrets or explanation and how she manages the financial difficulties of divorce. The thing that's interesting, I think that the author does a really nice job in talking about the emotional consequences of the end of this relationship, but she kind of conceals in some ways. just how wealthy the family is and how little financially is actually at stake. She spends a lot of time worrying about the money involved, but she's fabulously wealthy, and so is her husband. And so there's a big New Yorker expose, I would say, about what the book leaves out. And I'm linking to that in the Picking and Sentinel tomorrow. But it's well-written and an interesting book about relationships as well as money. It's called Strangers and Memoir of Marriage. I'm going to interview next week, Tom Juno, who wrote The Falling Man, the story of the man whose picture was captured by... an AP photographer falling from the World Trade Center on 9-11. You may remember the picture or go back and look, you'll recognize it if you don't, but it's that man who is falling down. And Juno wrote a lengthy piece about who that man was. 9-11 is coming up again soon. And since I just finished another book that we talked about on a previous episode of this podcast, a memoir about him and his father, I asked him if he would come on closer to 9-11 and tell us that story. and how it's evolved, if you will, over the years. And he energetically said, yes, I'd love to come on. I'm going to talk to him again. But if you have not read that falling man piece, which did that originally appear in Esquire, Pete? I think that was an Esquire magazine article. And it runs like 20 pages. And you wonder if he does discover who that man was. I don't think I'm spoiling anything by saying that he never is able to identify exactly who that person was, although his research is fantastic. I mean, he goes to great lengths and actually great pain to ask.

People who did lose a loved one on 9-11, is that your dad or your brother or your husband? So the following man by Tom Juno, J-U-N-O-D was my green light of sorts. And that'll do it for this week. That's Marge Halper and Steve Bertrand, Eric Zohran Mamdani. I'm John Williams. We're produced by Ben Anderson and Pete Zimmerman. And we'll drop another podcast on you next week. All right, boys and girls. See you. Thanks, Marge. Thank you, Steve. Good to see you, buddy. All right, see you. Bye. Subscribe to the Mincing Rascals podcast on iTunes or the Google Play Music Store. You can now also follow us on Spotify, or you can keep listening online at wgnradio.com.