BPR Full Show 6/10/26: Happy Hour and Senator Ed Markey

Support for Boston Public Radio comes from the Museum of Science. From live science demonstrations to hands-on exhibits, families can explore the wonders of Earth's evolution and the frontiers of space this summer. Learn more at MOS.org. And MIT Federal Credit Union, banking built on innovation guided by real people. Memberships open to the public. More at MITFCU.org, federally insured by NCUA. I'm Jim Brady Head on BPR and GVH and NEPM live from the library. We'll open the phone and text lines to you. Is the World Cup the thing that will finally bring Happy Hour back to Puritan, Massachusetts? Then we'll check in with Harvard National Security experts at Chi I'm on New Strikes Exchange between U.S. and Iran. We'll walk down memory lane as Cambridge's S&S. Deli served its last meal this weekend after 107 years as a family-owned business. I'm Marjorie. the second hour with you and the AI Data Center, boom. Are you personally avoiding using chat GPT and Gemini because of environmental concerns and for the sake of humanity, call or text? Then we'll talk with Carolyn Chu of homes for all Massachusetts about a potential deal on rent control. And we'll end the show with Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey on Zoom from Washington. It's all ahead. BPR live from the Boston Public Library.

Welcome to PPR and GBIH and any p.m. Jim Brady and Marjorie Egan. We are broadcasting live from the Boston Public Library and streaming at YouTube.com slash GBH News. Senator Ed Marquis is going to zoom in later in the show today. Senator Sheldon White House is going to zoom in as well tomorrow from Rhode Island, of course, Senator from Rhode Island. And we'll have Rachel Rollins first interview tomorrow since she was forced out of her job as the United States Attorney from Massachusetts, and since she announced that she was going to run again for her old job as a district attorney of Suffolk County. Good morning. Jim. Hey there, Marjorie. How are you? Fine, thank you. So apparently, is my mic on, by the way? I don't hear myself. Yeah, okay. Apparently, Governor Healy has had a change of heart on Happy Hour. In 2024, she told us right here on Boston Public Radio, she had real problems with repealing the ban, the 40-some-year ban, on reduced-priced drinks. Do you support the concept of having Happy Hour again in the coma? You know, I think there are problems with that, to be honest. But again, I'm going to look at, you know, problems for restaurants in our hospitality industry, to be honest. So, look, in the scheme of things, what I'm really focused on is not Happy Hour. But with the World Cup on its way, yesterday her position, let's say, evolved. Here's the governor on WEEEI. Can you ever see Happy Hour coming back? Yeah, I am, you know, I personally support Happy Hour, you know, that said, you know, it's, again, it's like a local option, you know, but, you know, for me, especially like I really want. 20-somethings, you know, 18 to 35-year-old, staying in Boston, staying in Massachusetts. It's about competitiveness, she says, too. So the lines are open at 877-301-89-7. And call her text, are you on board with Happy Hour returning in Massachusetts? It's been banned since the 80s when there was a terrible accident. A Weymouth woman was killed, dragged beneath her car and Braintree, and Governor Dukakis said no more. Though you can find discounted meal deals at many restaurants across city, Bucca Shuck oysters from 5 to 6, Appiah Hour discounts on appetizers. I love those, by the way. What do you make of Healy's endorsement and the possibility of a return to happy hour? Will it help make Massachusetts a little more fun, a little more competitive, or do you think it's a bad idea? More drinking means more problems, whether you're a bar owner. or just an average person like us. Give us caller text 877-301-8970. So, Marjoriegan, where are you? I think it's a totally different time. I think Uber and Lyft, the ride chair has really changed things. And I think a lot of young people that tend to be the ones that take advantage of these happy hours are, if they're drinking too much, they're going to be, I hope, smart enough to take a ride chair home. And also, when you're just out of college or when you're first a job,

job, you know, just squeaking by because you can't pay the rent here in Boston. Happy hour is a great place to go, not just a drink, but to stuff yourself with food that's really discounted, you know, a lot of nachos, maybe you'll even get lucky and get some, like, Swedish meatballs or something like that. Oh, man. It doesn't get much better than that. You don't have to drink for Swedish meatballs. You just go to IKEA and sit there all day and shove those babies in. You can do that, too. But, yeah, I think, I think. You know, I know that some restaurants don't like it. They talk about a race to the bottom, that they're going to discount their drinks. But, I mean, it was a great thing for a long time that was a tragic accent. And don't forget, Michael Dukak's brother. He lost his brother in a car accent. No, I think it was the right decision for the time, actually, as you said before. But times have changed. By the way, under the proposal, should it happen, it would be a local option, meaning individual cities and towns would decide whether they want to... allow happy hour would mandate it and you know while I'm always sympathetic to the play to some restaurant owners in bars they say you know the problem is that we don't want to do it because of legal responsibility and other things it puts us as a competitive disadvantage I'm not sure I'm persuaded by that because anything another restaurant does or a bar does might put you at a competitive disadvantage just figure out How to deal with it. By the way, if they're restaurant owners and bar owners listening, we'd love to hear from you too. The number is 877301-8970. Didn't you go to a happy hour when we were young? Oh, yeah. Well, I moved here from Massachusetts. I went to Margarita Happy Hour at this joint in Cambridge. I can't remember the name. But they also, when it comes with the food, I mean, isn't the goal, well, at least for me. The goal was not really the drinking. The goal was. Some of us were there for the booze. Some of us were there for food. So fill yourself up until you can't move, not because of the drink, but because of the food. Yeah. I would say before the show, we used to go to the park plaza up by, it's not Parker House, up by Beacon Hill, right? By the State House. You're up there. You know, going to the State House, doing a story about the report. Just segue right over to the Parker House. Oh, it was unbelievable. You could be there for the entire happy hour. It might be from four to six, five to seven. You could be there for two hours and you need your whole dinner. What was that? 45 years ago? You weren't gone there 45 years ago. I was. Do caucus outline, I'd load this in 84? 84. Well, I was a young reporter. I was a young reporter in the 80s. Yeah. How many drinks would you have during happy hour? You know, you always pay me. No, you're the one that you brought up the subject matter. How many drinks? What do you have at the bar grass? I probably would have not that many because in those days there were no Uber or Lyft. But of course you could take the tea then too, which is right there. If you can find the tea, right, after you have nine drinks. Yeah, I mean, people always complain about Boston being, you know, you go to New York City and it's a different situation because they're talking about being open late at night. But you go to a place like New York City or even Washington, well, I shouldn't say Washington because I don't know much about Washington. We'll say it anyway. But New York City, I mean, it's vibrant. It's packed. Everybody's outside. This is a great time. nice warm weather to be outside having some drinks and some nachos. I mean, come on, the super duper nachos. I mean, don't you love nachos? Are you kidding me? I have bathed in nachos. I have filled the tub with nachos and jump right in there. Let me tell you. And, you know, the other thing is, I mean, obviously there was a tragic situation back when that woman who was sitting on the hood of the car, I guess, she and her friend had been...

They won these awards. It's her friend who killed her, by the way. Yeah, they had just gone, I think it was a ground round, and they were in some contest, and they won extra beers or something. And, yeah, she was sitting on the hood, and the driver drove away, and she went underneath the car. It was horrible. But that, those kind of, what is the great, the legislation by anecdote that would want a horrible thing? Government by anecdote, yeah. Ronald Reagan was essentially elevated that to an art. That's right. That doesn't make good legislation, I don't think. And I don't, I don't think. it made good legislation in that case either. 877301-8970. Should we bring back the happy hour? What do you think? Could you solve some of your budget food problems if you get to happy hours two or three times a week and load up and all that? I mean, you can get your protein quotient at a happy hour, no problem, right? Because of the food you're talking about. Yeah, chicken wings. You glossed over something, I think it's really important. As long as it's done with as many safeguards to make it as safe as possible, fun is a really important thing. And Healy said this on AEI yesterday, you know, what she said, the 20-year-olds, the 18- and the 35-year-olds, Mayor Wu is going out of her way to try to make the city more appealing to young people so they don't leave the state either. And that's like a night, it's a really, it's an important and symbolic, a real world and symbolic thing. So I'm with Marjorie. I think we should do it. The number is 87301.897. Give us a buzzer a text. A texter points out that there's been many, many reports about young people not drinking as much as they used to. That's true. So they might just have a beer, or maybe two beers, and shove down all that food. So as this texture says, today's use doesn't drink that much, so it could be a boon for food and socializing. And that is a good point, too. And supposedly it's not because everybody's having edibles or weed. It's not really a... transfer from booze to weed. Maybe it's just more a health. Well, I think it's a helping. A lot of people are saying, you know, drinking, even moderate drinking, the doctors are saying it's not so fine. Peter and Mystic, Connecticut is not with this. He says, have you two gone insane? What's next? Smoking on planes. By the way, can you believe that in our lifetime you could smoke on a plane? And the theory was because the smokers were in the back, what, six rows, that you wouldn't be bothered by it? I mean, that is, no, we do not support that, Peter in Mystic. Okay, let's go to Mary and Amy Acton. Thank you. Thank you for calling, Mary. What do you think? Hi, Mary. Welcome. Hi, long-time listener, a second-time caller. Thank you. Thank you. I grew up outside of Boston in a very Irish family. We had potato six days a week. I'm not kidding. And the seventh day was baked beans. Absolutely. It's great. Yeah. But you didn't eat the skins necessarily. And it was 1981. I was in Buffalo at happy hour. And I turned to my boyfriend. I said, oh, my God, they're serving us garbage because it was potato skin. Without the potatoes. So, you know, I said,

I've now come to learn the deliciousness of potato skin. Oh, absolutely. I'll never forget how stuffed I was. Are we talking about potato skins? What are we talking about? We're talking about potato skins? We are? A full of bacon and cheese. Okay. What did you have in your potato skins, Mary? Bacon and cheese? Something else. Well, at the time, I wouldn't eat it. I was like, that would never be stuck at my house. But now you've got to stuff them. Yeah, they're delicious. Okay, let's get to Happy Hour. Where are you on Happy Hour there, Mary and Amy Acton? Okay, well, I think happy hour with potato skins work. You know, if they're feeding you, all as well. Well, I think that's important. By the way, that's a very important thing. I assume restaurateurs make that decision on their own, but it's really important if you're eating, you also get a drunk less easily. Am I not right about that? If you're eating? Oh, yeah. So that's an important thing, that the appetizers have to be half-priced, too. Mary, thanks for the cold. Thanks for the potato skin insight. Did you tend to eat more savory, not particularly good for your food when you've been drinking to absorb the liquor? I think so. Why savory? I don't know. You know, do you think about it when you're drinking beers or you're drinking, you know, gin and tonic? You're not going to have a... a sorbet, a fruit thing. You tend to have, like, salty things, I think. No, I'm not accusing you of being a lush when I asked this question. Have you not said on the air when you were working at Boston Magazine? All of you guys went out for a birthday at lunch. Not every day. Not every day. No. At the end of the month. Oh, at the end of the month. You put the magazine to bed. We'd all go out for a nice long lunch. And that's when your expense account used to cover liquor. So it was a whole different time, you know. They don't really like to cover liquor anymore. David and Wellesie, thank you for calling. Hello. David. How are you? Good. Fine. Thank you. I'm a bartender. I've been off and up for 35, 40 years. I went to Harvard School of Mixology. Wow. Graduated, got a job at the State and Sign and New Report, and worked a happy hour and got my case of alcoholism. I stopped drinking about six months after that. Then I was hit by a drunk driver. Oh, my gosh. Lost a couple discs in my back. Head-on collision was the son of the fire chief of Salisbury, Massachusetts, was not arrested, never took responsibility for the problem. Subsequently, I've been hit two more times by drunk drivers. My gosh. This is a foolhardy effort. I was at the hearings in the 80s with mothers and drunk driving, sharing their stories about their dead kids, nephews, and relatives from drunk drivers. We have transformed the state from one of the top vehicular homicide states of the nation to the lowest. as a result of those efforts. That's not because of a happy hour. With all due respect, David, particularly since you suffered, we used to have on our show pretty regularly a wonderful man by the name of Ron Bursani, whose granddaughter Melanie Jerome Powell was killed. 13 years old. 13 years old. Broad daylight. And he became a citizen lobbyist. One of the most admirable people I've ever met in my life for years. He lobbied every legislator. And we made tougher laws in this state.

That's one of the primary reasons for reduction in drunk driving, not because Michael Dukakis abolished. Happy Hour 40 years ago. It's not just that. David, you mentioned the mothers against drunk driving. They changed the whole attitude. I mean, it used to be people would come in, you know, to work, and they joke about driving home when they were plowed and it was a ha, ha, ha. Then it became a shameful thing to admit that you did. So the whole attitude about getting in a car when you've been drinking. Thanks to these groups changed. So I think it's a totally different time about alcohol, not to mention all the reports about alcohol being really bad for you, too. But I don't know what that noise is. David, thank you for your call. We respect your opinion, and we're sorry you live through what you live through. Thank you for your call. 877301.8970. Tori in North Attleboro Techs. After paying rent, my kids can barely afford to go out and enjoy Boston. This would help. You know, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but I think it's really true. What is the noise? When you are young, that you can go out and get your dinner. You know, you're not going to get, you're not going to get necessarily a lot of vegetables at Happy Hour. You're not necessarily going to get a lot of fruit at Happy Hour, but you're going to get a lot of things like, you know, nachos, chicken wings, potato skins. I'm sorry, with all due respect. Every time I go out drinking, I order Croutette. That's... What is Crutette? I don't know. Cruttees, yeah, crudetets and celery sticks. Yeah, it's like when you dip it in a sauce, you celery and things. That's not a happy hour food, but that's not going to fill you up. This is an opportunity to get all that stuff in you so you're not hungry when you're at happy hour. You know we should have asked that guy who had horrible interactions with drunk drivers, a gentleman who was the bartender, is, you know, the laws around... what you can do in liability for people who work and bar. No, they're tough. Yeah. And if the volume of drinking goes up dramatically, which is inarguable, right? If it turns out we do a happy hour, that does put an extra big-time burden. on staff people who work in these joints, right? Doesn't it? You mean to worry about people that are thinking too much? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, again, you know, alcoholism is a terrible thing. People that have drinking problems are a terrible thing. We all know that. But the vast majority of people are not alcoholics and the vast majority of people can get on the... I'm not an alcoholic. You're not an alcoholic. You've ever been too drunk to drive? I have been. You don't have to be an alcoholic. I would say once. When was that? Like when I was very young. What'd you do? I didn't drive. Were you underage? No, I was like 22 or something. I think she was underage. Yeah, and I think that's one of the things we learned from Ron Bursani. People who are chronic drinkers and alcohol, you've probably driven drunk a hundred times. Most people don't.

drive drunk, and the thing about Uber and Lyft is change things dramatically. Anyway, Sean West Roxbury says Happy Hour is usually popular in New York City. The bars are packed. Boston has a reputation for being anti-fun. Bring back Happy Hour, and Uber is a game chamber changer, and I think that's really true. You know, the problem is not, I agree with that. Not everybody can afford Lyft and Uber, though, is another whole thing, right? It's not cheap. Then you don't get sauced. I mean, I think, I mean, we're acting as if the attitudes about liquor are the same now in 2026 as they were in 1980. You're right. It's a big joke to drive drunk. When everybody thought you'd have these contests and see how much you could drink, drink this person under the table, that under the table. We always talk about how red wine was great. It's going to be a health thing. Now people know that liquor's bad for you in almost every circumstance and that you have Uber and Lyft to take you home when you've not been drinking. And mothers against drunk driving are commended for making the attitudes about driving drunk. shameful instead of some joke at the water cooler on Monday morning. Alex in Watertown, you're next on BPR. Welcome to the show. Hi. Alex, say something. Oh, he disappeared. It's something I said? Alan in the car, don't hang up on me. Hi. Hi, how are you? Good. So I don't think it's a horrible idea, but Happy Hour used to be for restaurants that they would have, it was kind of during the lull and the ship change. It would be like four to seven or something like that. People don't get out of work until six o'clock at night. And that's if they're even in the office. So what are you going to have it from six to eight? And that runs into their dinner. So I don't know how logistically it sets up for the restaurants. Maybe someone should show up to work from time to time, Ellen. How about that? Well, Ellen... Well, I mean, it's the earlier time that they were on. I know, I know, I know, I know. Excuse to me if you're working from home. Totally about the younger kids drinking. Yeah. From the kids that I hang out with, one of the big things that has turned kids off from drinking is that they're around their middle-aged parents so much, and they hate seeing them drunk. And it turned them off completely to acting like that. I think that is a brilliant analysis, and I totally agree with it. Ellen, thank you. Yeah, I don't think you ever want to see your mother or your father drunk. Okay. Yeah. I mean, if you're drunk around your children, you probably should address that issue too. You probably should. Now, here's an anonymous texter. Maybe you can speak to this, Margaret. Wow. You guys started the show without bashing Trump. Did someone give Jim a head transplant? If not, can we schedule one for him? Yeah, we said we needed a break in the Trump action for today. We're going to talk about Trump a little bit more on the show, but not right now. Let's go to Adam and Ashfield. What do you think, Adam? Hello, Adam.

Oh, my name is Tom and I'm in Nashville. Oh, sorry. Sorry. That's okay. I'm a career bartender. I worked for 22 years in New York City. I'll just say right now that Happy Hour doesn't do anything for the worker. We don't make more tips. More people get drunk, but nobody drives in New York. I think the issue here is an infrastructure issue in Boston. There's not a reliable public transport, and you're basically relying on people driving. Can I tell you something? You're a genius, whatever your name is. That's the important point about the New York City comparison. I know, I'm kidding. Comparison is nobody drives in New York City. That is a really valuable point. So Adam, one more question. One of the things we've heard in the past, not so much today when we've discussed this, is bar owners say, well, if my town adopts the local option and the restaurant or the bar down the block. decides that happy hour and i don't uh my place is going to be screwed i'm going to be a real competitive disadvantage is that legit or no yeah i think it is legit but again i don't think anybody's doing anybody favors with a happy hour and i'll also say as an alcoholic who is now sober I prefer serving alcoholics than people who don't drink regularly during happy hours because the people who drink regularly know how to handle themselves at 5 p.m., whereas the people who don't get wasted. Tom, that was a spectacular phone call. That wasn't a very good phone call, but I still think the driving thing is different now. I mean, the T does function in Boston. It is open until midnight, happy hours earlier in the day. And I do think more people take Uber and lift. And if it's a money thing, you bunch up together and you take an Uber or a lift. But his point is not, I agree with you, his point, though, is not illegitimate about... I agree with you. Driving habits are different. The shame is everywhere, very different. But it is true in New York City. Nobody drives. See, I see it as a thing about not coming from the point of people being alcoholists or coming to the point of if you're 22 years old, it is fun, it is cheaper, it's affordable, and it solves a lot of your food problem. That's what Hilly said yesterday. That's what I'm thinking about. Going out, especially now you can be outside at a bar sitting outside with a drink and a couple of appetizers. and not go broke. So Alex hung up on me, but now she's back. Hello, Alex in Watertown. How are you? Oh, I'm so sorry. No, I'm kidding. Go ahead. It's fine. What's up? Jim, I agree with you 50% of the time, Marjorie, 100% of the time. However. However, go ahead. You guys, you are so off. You, I love nachos. I absolutely love margaritas, but it only takes one drunk driver, and there are still people, we don't need any more people on the road.

Whether they're in the train or the bus, have you ever been to a Fenway park? There are plenty of people who could still be in an accident. So sorry, we don't need to promote in any way, shape, or form, drinking and driving, even in an Uber. Alex, why do you only agree with me half the time? Well, you're a white man. I'm a white man. That is accurate. I am a white man. Alex, how were you drunk driving when you're in an Uber? Quickly. No, I'm not. No, I know, but I just feel for the Uber drivers who everyone's throwing up on. Well, that's a problem. No, that is an issue too. Alex, thank you. We are forgetting here that young people are drinking less, not more and more. So I think we'll have to worry about fewer intoxicated young people because for whatever reason, I don't think we know why they're drinking less. Do we know why? I think health, I think what you said is a big part of this. I thought it was to switch to edibles, but apparently that's not the reason anyway. Jamie just said in my ear, OZempic is another reason. Oh, Zempic. My God, I forgot about that. That's right. People would eat less and drink less, and then they lose all that weight. because we're on Ozempic, which is nice for people. Anyway, coming off for this quick break, we're going to talk about national security expert Juliette Kayam on the War, the World Cup, and her new substack. I'm Marjoriegan. He's Jim Browdy. This is BPR, GBIH, NAPM, live for the BPL, streaming at YouTube.com slash GPH News.

Welcome back to BPR and GBAH and NEPM. Marger Egan, Jim Browley. We're live at the library streaming at YouTube.com slash GBHA. Senator Ed Markey zooms into our show at roughly 1230 today. Senator Sheldon White House from Rhode Island will zoom in on tomorrow's show. And Rachel Rollins, an interview with Rachel Rollins, her first in quite a while. She has declared her candidacy for the same Suffolk DA seat that she had in the past. As you know, she went on to be U.S. tourney, was forced to resign after a couple of investigations. She's running again. Tomorrow, you will hear from her. Join now at the library desk by national security expert Juliet Kiam. Juliet is a former Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security under President Obama, faculty chair of the Homeland Security Program at Harvard's County School of Government, and CNN Senior National Security Annals and... As you'll hear in a few minutes, the woman behind a brand new substack called Early Warning. Hello, Juliette. Hello. Hello, Julia. Thank you for coming in. So, everybody is concerned about getting out of this Iran war, the price of gas, price of everything is going up. But we... don't really know what's going to happen. What is the state of affairs? You know what's so amazing is like if I miss the news for five minutes, maybe we're at peace, maybe we're at war. I will say, I mean, part of that is because we don't know what the purpose and therefore we don't know what the end game is. Up until this weekend when there was a downing of the Iranians downed, but they survived two soldiers. It looked like we might have a peace deal, as we often do on the weekends. Trump then said he was going to do something. He did do something. There were bombings. And we don't know where we are right now. This is a very interesting looking piece, if it is peace. And at the same time, we're hearing rumors from the administration and reporting in the New York Times that there are continuing discussions about the nuclear deal and whether the Trump administration... can get something better than what they abandoned when they abandoned the Obama administration's plan. It looks very similar to... Very similar. There's some differences, including basically closing down all the facilities, which the Obama administration could never get. And the other one, which I really like, is the idea of sort of no notice visits so that you don't have this whole buildup that the IEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency is going to go look at this and give... the Iranians warning and stuff, so that that would seem to be good. The plan, as we understand it from the New York Times reporting, is the American, the Trump administration's wish list of the Iranians. What we don't know is it takes two to tango. What does the other party want? And can you get it in time or fast enough to head off?

all the consequences that we're seeing because of the war. Well, we also don't know if the foreign affairs guy who's negotiating, according to the York Times, has the commitment of his superiors. You know, let me just say the one piece of good, the bad news is, can I use the word, since the governor said this the other day to us, when we asked her about the war, she referred to him as an incompetent fool. Hmm. He is an incompetent and a fool. And I would say that's true. Wasn't she there? Yesterday, she was sort of, but just in body only. Let me just say two things. Yesterday, a deal was imminent two or three days away. Today, because, quote, they're negotiating too slowly, he threatens them again with a bombing. Acting as if that's going to change their behavior. He does this every day. It doesn't change their behavior. and now he, you know, is talking about the reflecting pool. So the idea that this is sort of front and center for how he views his role as the president. We are at war. I mean, they can call it whatever they want, is belied by where he spends most of his time, which is on architecture. But the plus that you mentioned, I want to reiterate, because we keep saying every day we have no idea, nor is anybody we speak to, the New York Times reported as fact. that those were the four issues in the negotiations over the nuclear issue. Not that Trump says, not that Iran says, but factual reporting. So the good news is the two sides are actually negotiating over one of the two things that matters most, the other thing being reopening the straight-of-form moves. So maybe we just don't know if these things are linked. Are they preconditioned on each other? Do we have to resolve the nuclear thing? Can I just do a little caveat on that? I read that story. as the White House now has a nuclear strategy, like in the sense of they now know what they want, which we haven't known what they want for a while. I did not read that as this is what Iran is willing to negotiate. Oh, no, no, but they're negotiating of these actual negotiation. I think the words in New York Times used were a hazy outline. What is that? It sounded a little hazy. Well, considering that an outline generally is, you know, hazy, outline for, you know. Yeah. Okay. So you are, what was the name of that book? Security Mom? A security mom. Whatever the hell. Whatever it was. Security Mom. Thank you very much. Speaking of security, is the World Cup like one of the great security risks ever? What is it? 48 games on 48 different days. I mean, 48. Teams, games, tons of games in three countries. Three countries. At a time when the United States is not exactly below. Yes, that is right. Yes, it is. And I have a piece of this. So I'm in terms of World Cup starts tomorrow. So the way to think. What do you mean you have a piece of this? I'm helping. Who are you working for? Yes. I can't say. I'm helping. I'm not going to like anyway. Let's just go back to the security aspects of this. The good news on the security front is, one, everything is knowable. So we know we have weather. We know we have guns. We know we have terrorism. I guess there's three things. Most things will impact, most things will be relevant in the six-week period because they're always relevant in the six-week period for the United States. So most of it is not FIFA directed. The third thing just to remember is nothing is being built.

for the World Cup. All of these are stadiums that have extensive and deep safety and security planning. Now, the vibe may be different. The world focus obviously will be different. This is the most watched event, event, not even sporting event, in the world ever. Like one in every 1.4 people that are alive will sort of watch a piece of it. A lot of dead people too. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And they're voting right after that. But the more, you know, the... So there's this, what we call the security aspects. One of the biggest challenges is, of course, drones. because that's hard to regulate, and they can cause a lot of havoc. So most of the planning has no fly zones, but also ways to disrupt any sort of drone or drone swarm. So those are the security features, and I just saw, I was just on a phone call for work that Mexico City has the opening. It's advising people arrive six hours early at 7 a.m. And they'll have breakfast available. Like literally that's because they have to close down large areas around it. Mexico City has been having a series of protests. And each of our cities here is going to have something similar. I just saw Los Angeles was... There was going to potentially be a strike that was resolved. So all these, there's going to be lots of blips throughout the six weeks. The big issue that we're hearing now is obviously the geopolitical immigration issue, which is just absurd. Well, it seems, I did a little half-ass survey last night. The odds, if you're a player of being cavity searched. are increased dramatically if you're a black soccer player. The odds of you being referee of the year last year and being banned from the country increase if you're a black referee from Africa. I mean, is anything we've read about... Increased security or is it purely part of Trump's? I don't like people who don't look like me. I cannot figure out what's going on. I mean, it's bad. And it's inconsistent with what FIFA, FIFA's policies in the past. So you can talk about FIFA in terms of sort of, you know, not demanding of the Trump administration what it would demand of other countries that we're hosting, which is essentially when you get, when you're a country and you bid for the World Cup, you make representations that everyone will be invited. The biggest issue, of course, has been the Iranian. of which my thought is if we were really winning this war, we wouldn't be going after the Iranian team. We are forcing them, not only did they have visa issues, and parts of their team are not able to travel the management side, we are forcing them to stay in Mexico City, fly in the morning of their match, and leave that night. They are not given overnight visa privileges. That's just saying, would you like to lose your match, right? Professional...

teams do not travel on the day of then there's the specific instances of people who have their visa so this refugee uh i Oh, my God, the referee, not the refugee, the referee had a valid visa. He arrives here. They hold him, detain him, question him, and then he's sent back. And when you say the number one, he's like a household name. I'm forgetting his name. They say he's the most famous accomplished referee in the world. Ironically, known for de-escalating field aggression, like in terms of calming players down. I'm not, I had thought that the Trump administration would do. everything possible to make this successful because Trump likes sports. He likes events. He likes FIFA. I thought, you know, you hear one incident and you think, oh, okay, maybe, you know, you don't know the thing. It's a little bit too consistent for my liking. And I think boats... bodes interestingly for the Olympics in 2028. Trump will still be president for the L.A. Olympics. I have to ask you this question. It was posed by our colleague, Jamie, in light of the fact that you chose not to disclose who your client was, are you in the running for the second annual FIFA Peace Prize. I am. I am. I could be. I'm good at de-escalating. That's beautiful. I only don't say because it's just like it gets confusing. I will say there's no conflict with what you say. There's no, absolutely, I've been going on CNN for the same reason. So are the Canadians doing this in terms of teams coming into their country? No. No, but I will say Canada does not. I mean, neither like this is a North America World Cup, but like Mexico has like, I don't know, like, uh. an eighth of the matches. I think Canada only has two or four. This thing will be a U.S. World Cup in two weeks. Right. Once we get to the later rounds, every match is played in the United States. Yeah, yeah, everything. And you're just going to have Kansas City and San Francisco. So I'm just asking that we're putting, we're putting. entry level requirements on athletes and fans that we have made representations, both when we got the bid, but also more recently, we had made representations that so long as the players, including players that are from countries that are now banned of traveling here, got visas beforehand, they would be allowed entry. What you're seeing is either the searches, which include cavity searches, or... or the denial of this of this referee. So, Juliet, isn't that a big problem when you're having the World Cup and you're not letting players on the teams into the country to play? Do you think it's a problem describing some countries as asshole countries, letting white South Africans come into the country? I just don't know. It's part of his whole deal. I know, but this makes us look really. I am more surprised than maybe I should be. I should be. I had, I mean,

Look, this is going to be a wildly successful World Cup. And how do I know that? It is? Because once this happens in every event I'm involved in. Once the matches begin, there's going to be a lot of focus on the unity. There's a whole bunch of fun stuff going on in terms of the watch parties. I think you're going to start to feel a vibe. And I also think that the sort of operation, safety, security, all of that is resolved and in place. But you read about. The tickets at the medal in. That's what I'm saying is that then the... Eight grand to 57 grand. Look at the Nix tickets. I mean, it's just these events are... Well, they're not that bad. The Nix tickets aren't that. Are you kidding? $4,700 was the get-in price for game three in New York City. Yeah, $4,000 to $57,000. I had heard,000 to $57,000. No, it was cut in half the day before. It was $9,000 and went down to $40,000. But that was game three. Wait until they get closer to the... Tonight, right? Well, tonight is game four, but there has to be a game five. We're talking to Juliette Kayam. So can you... Their sports reporter. You are as entrepreneurial as any national security person like in history. I just want to say that as a compliment, I think. What's your new substack thing? Oh, thank you. Well, I think we just put it up now. Oh. So I, you know, I contribute to the Atlantic. I have lots of ties, including our weekly event. But I had reserved a substack like three years ago, and it like just laid dorm. And I sort of thought this thing is interesting. I have finished some big writing projects, including... a new afterward for the Devil Never Sleep, so a new version is coming out at the end of this year. But I also thought, like, this would be sort of fun to have something that I actually own. And so we're launching it actually right now. I think the first actually, it's, you can get on for free. And I'll start doing a weekly newsletter. And I mean, part of it is just. If I have a value add to this crazy world is that I help people hopefully process and understand. Give us an example. What's the first one about? So I think the first actually, I think the first one is going to be about what. is happening with FIFA and what does it mean for the implications, the bigger implications for what it means for the United States to be a host country in the years ahead. Because I think this is going to have decades-long impact regardless of who the president is. How do you subscribe to this thing? Thank you. How do I subscribe? Early warning. I had to write it. Early morning with Juliet. Okay, early morning with Juliet.com. I'll start it next week, but I would love to get you all engage. And basically it's about what's happening now and what it tells us about what's coming next. And by the way, when you're sending your only warning with Juliet, you might want to spell your name because you're two different spelled. This is the worst promotion of a new episode. Can we start all over? Can we start? I'm bad at promotion. Do you know how hard it was for me to even email your team and say, hey guys, I'm starting this thing. It's going to start next week, but I don't see you next week.

So that's why I'm promoting now. We're almost on time here, but I'm wondering, give me a hint. It seems to me this is not making the United States look good as a home venue for these games. No, and it's going to have impact for tourism, travel, but not just mega events, all the metrics of 10% of our GDP. So this is another Trump screw up. Yeah, yeah, and unnecessary. Can I do that again? Early Warning with Juliette. Early.orgon.com. Do you know hard? I'm not seeing you next week. Anyway, next week I will be at a match. You will? You're again. What can you go on to? San Francisco. Next week. Oh, my God. I mean, really, she is going to get the FIFA Peace Prize. She is. Goodbye, Julia. Bye, you guys. Bye, you guys. See you later. Have a great week. Under President Barack Obama, faculty chair, the Homeland Security Program in Harvard's Robert F. Kennedy Jr. School of Government, CNN's senior national security analyst. Her new substack, early warning with Juliet Kiam. Now, she said it was early warning with Juliet. Early morning. Forget the Kiam. The first issue launches next week. Substack at Early Warning with Juliet.substack.com. Gary Mitchell, owner the legendary S&S Daily, which just closed. He's with us up next.

Welcome back to BPR and GBAH and any p.m. Marjoriegan, who is eating boneless S&S wings as we speak. I'm Jim Browdy, live from the library streaming YouTube.com slash GBAHN. Senator Ed Markey is going to join us in about 45 minutes on Zoom. Tomorrow, Senator Sheldon White House will join us at noon, as will Rachel Rollins will be sharing an interview we've done with the new candidate for her old job, Suffolk County DA. And as you know, she stepped down. several years ago from the job as U.S. Thurney. We'll discuss that with her as well. 107 years ago. Rebecca Ma Edelstein found an S&S deli in Emmons Square in Cambridge. She would greet customers with S&S Yiddish for Eat and eat. Well, last Sunday, the eating ended as Ma Edelstein's great grandchildren, Gary Mitchell and Amy Baum, served meals at S&S for the last time. For the last 40 years, I've been eating there. As has everybody I know. BPR producer Nicole Garcia, GBH photographer Dan Lang, and I went to S&S on that last day, spoke to owners Gary and Amy and their families, longtime staff, and of course customers. Here are just a few customers who came by for their final S&S meal. You'll hear spectacular little seven-year-old Nova, a woman from Western Mass, we forgot to get her name, then Sharon at the counter, and another guy named Jim. Here it is. S&S is closing and I really love this place. Why do you love it so much? Because it makes the best food. I'm here because this is such an institution. It feels very sad, very emotional. I've been coming here since I've got a little grown with my grandpa and calling in to get the last order was very sad. Ready for me? I don't know. Where's Madri? That's all that guy cared about, Jim. Joining us now is Gary Mitchell. Gary, good to see you and congratulations. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And I much enjoyed the boneless chicken. Let me tell you. It's absolutely delicious. Bolesess S&S wings. We don't call it. Excuse me. Chicken. Margie, you know you've been in business 107 years. You can say whatever you are. We have earned the right. That's right. So I need to talk about Jim for a moment. Oh, go right ahead. So first of all, I was preparing for the show last night. Jim said he was going to come to the S&S and interview me, and then I would come here and interview him. Oh. So, first of all, I fact-checked his resume. What a pedigree from you, a pen. Very impressive. What are we doing here? Very impressive. Jim, be quiet. Thank you. Okay. Now he's got a resume. It's missing three things. What is it? He may get terminated for this. Busboy, I didn't see on their waiter, and he was pushing knockoff a Zempik maybe 30 years ago to me. Really? People would come in the restaurant and say, just stare at me. And I said, why are you here? Well, Jim Brody sent me here. I lost 50 pounds. Are we done with this yet? No. I got one more a second. So. Can we show the picture of a guy 50 pounds ago? We have that. That is the same human being with his sister. Now look at Gary then. Look at Gary now. I owe it all the Jim. The show's over in like two hours. He told me they were virility pills. No, they were male enhancement. But Jim gave them to me. He ran out to the car and I lost the 50 pounds. Never paid a royalty.

Never ever paid a royalty. Do you remember we were hawking those on our old radio show? No, no, no. So there's another show that competes with you, no names, begins with a W. They said they would pick me up car service in Cambridge, take me out for lunch, an hour show, and pay a royalty. I'm still waiting for a royalty for this guy from 30 years ago. Okay, Gary, thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it. I don't know how you put up with it, Mike. I think I like you more than I like him. I'm going to get the FIFA Peace Prize. Okay, why did you close this place after 107 years? No, one more fact check. Oh, my God. He called at S&S Deli. Jim, you were there. You were there Sunday. You saw it. It was S&S restaurant, the heart and soul of Cambridge. It had nothing to do with the food. The people of Cambridge came. Why should close the place? Why? Yeah. Because my time has come, Jim. I'd like to spend more time with my family, more time with my friends, and enjoy life. I know that, but when 7 o'clock came, we were there when you opened in the morning, Nicole and Dan and I, when 7 o'clock came... Well, that's because you wanted a free breakfast. I told him, Margie, I told him if it comes at 3 o'clock, we might run out of food, he switched his appointment to 9 o'clock. How'd you feel, seriously, how'd you feel at 7 o'clock when you locked the door, or 7.30, whenever the hell it was? I felt our time had come, Jim. We served the community with great honor and integrity, and I wanted to do it on my terms. There is no side story. Jim's been asking me every time I see him. Gary, you're going to tell me, well, first of all, he asked me my favorite, is he my favorite customer? He asked me that 10 times, Margie. I finally said, yes, so I could get invited to the show. So, by the way, what Gary was trying to say is I've asked him 100 times, what's next? And you haven't made a decision. Even though you swore to me, you raised your right hand, there will not be another bank in... Nail salon, correct. What are you looking at? What's in front of you? Well, we received hundreds and thousands of letters. And in particular, these two touched a raw nerve. And should I read them, Jim? Yes, you can read them. So, dear Mr. Mitchell, and I can say the person's name? Yeah, sure. Okay. My name is Lucy Palmeroth. I might start to cry. I'm a lifetime Cambridge resident and fan of the S&S. I was sorry to see that it will be closing soon, and unfortunately I will be unable to get back there one last time. However, I want to share with you my experience of the restaurant and why it was a meaningful place to me. When I was eight years old, I was treated for Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer. On the way home from my treatments, we would stop at the S&S and pick up blueberry pancakes. This was always something I look forward to and greatly enjoyed during this super hard time as it gave me a sense of normalcy when everything else seemed to be so out of the ordinary.

When I finished treatment over 10 years ago, we got a large stack of blueberry pancakes, and it served as a symbol of the resilience that got me through this time. I'll always look back at the S&S lunches with a smile. Thank you for that. I wish you good luck on your future endeavor's best Lucy Palmer Roth, Cambridge and gelatin. Class of 25. So she couldn't be more than 20 years old. Isn't that great? Well, let me go. Everyone is cancer in everyone's family. At eight years old, she felt this way. Let me go. Nicole Garcia, who came with me on Sunday, had never been to S&S before. She just wrote me a note. I was my first time going to S&S on Sunday. Even I felt how loved it was by so many people. Even I will miss it. That was her first time the other day. That's pretty great. Read the other one quickly if you can. Well, we've all seen the movie Harry Met Sally. Yes. So this is our version. Let's not do that scene. Easy, Jim. Thank you. How do you work with him? Oh, my God. I just had to write and tell you very much you'll be missed. My now husband and I moved to Cambridge in 1997, and every big life decision was at the S&S. We decided to buy our house, get married, have a baby. Have another baby? Wow. Our kids are now 19 and 17, have grown up with that mythology, and I'm so sad that they cannot carry it on. Perhaps they will carry the legacy on on whatever restaurant takes over the space, even if they can never truly take your place. All the best, some rest, fun, and retirement. Kate Whitfield. Oh, my goodness. That's lovely. That's lovely. Tourney Gary Mitchell, co-owner of S&S, which closed for the last time this past Sunday. You know, maybe on a less inspirational note, Jim confessed to me that when he had his one term as the same Cambridge City Councilor, one of the things that was really outrageous is he used to bring, they used to serve food from the S&S deli behind the... tables where the city councilors, and Jim used to go in with shopping bags and aluminum foil and take all the food home. I thought that was really outrageous. We service the city council for 103 years, not the current group. I go, Dad, the bid says food for 12 people. Gary, these are all my friends. We sent food for 20 people. And we sent beverages for 30 and desserts for 30 and paper goods for 50. No caterer could understand how we got that business all these years. It was my father's love for the city and for the city people that work there. Did you agree? Did you see Jim carrying up these huge shopping bags? The Chronicle came and wanted to know what each city councilor ordered. Yeah, what do you order? That I'm going to disclose. Okay, tomorrow. Now, let me just tell you something. I actually... Who's in charge of this interview? You or me. I'm, okay. Turkey club. One of the things. Turkey club on Iggy's whole week bread. Turkey club. His daughters and free cookies. Okay. One of the things I love about SNS. 395. Are the people who worked there forever. Okay. We got to interview a lot of staff, including twins, Rachel and Julie, and this wonderful woman at the bar, Chandra. Here's what they had to say.

You two know each other, you look a lot alike, do you? Twins. Twins? How long you worked here? 23 years. How long you worked here? 23 years. Wait, you started at the same time? I started from the Deli Takeout. You know, I was just a girl in takeout working in high school, and then I had the opportunity to become all the way up to a manager, 30 years doing catering. I always joke around and say, I'm the owner without the bills. You know. By the way, there are some great people, and I mean this totally seriously. When I asked every staff person with whom I spoke on Sunday, I said, what are you going to do next? I said, I don't know. That's almost heartbreaking in some ways, isn't it? I mean. Jim, quite honestly, I didn't realize what we meant to the community. And the last month... Jim, you were there. Jim snuck in the back door. With his shopping bag. No, he saw the 250 people in the front, canceled the 3 o'clock show, came at 9 o'clock in the morning, snuck in, got his breakfast, and then he left. He left him the TV crew. I asked the TV man if there was film in the camera because I said, no radio show has film. But at any rate, we did not, not, Jim, I'm talking right now. Go ahead. We did not realize how beloved we were. And it is the most humbling experience in my life. I can't believe it. I started four in the morning. My wife is here. She would tell you just to serve this community. For a year and a half, we have not raised our prices. All you hear, affordability, high prices or whatever, we would rather serve the community than raise our prices. You haven't told us the food. You even told us what was this. We get the boneless. What about us called these? But what else did you serve? Oh, please. My wife and I, we went to New York to Katz's. Cost us $400 on the Excella, round trip that was $800. Cab fare, two sandwiches, $40 a piece. $1,000 to get some deli in New York. People come to the S&S. They get a Ruben Gallego sandwich. It's $15. They can come all month for $15, so they enjoy it. Bostonians, you know, aren't New Yorkers. This isn't a tourist area. They're regular people that come every day. And we serve the city and we serve the people of Cambridge for 107 years. And they came that day, Jim Sart, to show their love. So now I'm thinking, Jim wants to know, what are we doing? Well, when you've been in business 107 years, you're in rush for nothing. So we'll try to figure this out. And if there's a way to keep it going, I just might. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I just might. What is this Clover part two? Wait a second. No, no, no. We didn't run out of money. No, wait a second. You might, this may not be the end? It's the end, but if I can find somebody else that I could help or a big family that would like to do it, I would seriously consider it. Is something in the works? No. Now, you also, you surprised me, after we turned off the camera on Sunday and then we turned it back on, you said there was at least a small project that you have committed to in terms of S&S. Explain what that is. Well, Jim, it was top secret and all he wants to know is the dirt. I meet him in a supermarket all the time. Market past, you can say it. Well, easy, Jim. He's always too busy when I ask him a question. Of course. When he wants my attention, let's sit down and kibbitts, Gary. Yeah. I try to call him.

Gary, next Tuesday between 203 and 205. That's Jim Browdy. Jim, can I talk to you? I'm busy. I'm busy. What are you doing? Tell them what you told me. So there is really a cult following for this S&S sauce. So we are going to announce shortly that we're going to have an S&S food truck with all of our favorites and the sauce. Oh, and I'd like to do something for the community and give back and hire some special needs kids to work with us. And I'm looking forward to doing it. I told my wife, I think I could be with it 24 hours a day. She questioned that a little bit. She's shaking her head right now. Look at her. She's saying no. She says I need a lot of training. Gary, running out of time. Big celebration on Sunday. What are you doing on Sunday? You have to be invited to this baby. Jim, the city. Not you and not the old guard, but the new guard is not really helping us. Oh. Yep. Jim knows all about this. So we're really confined to the back of the restaurant, and we plan on thanking everyone for our 107 years. Okay. All these city counselors that got all the food for all these years, they couldn't do your favor? Did you hear we stopped? You stopped. Shopped 104. What's wrong with them over there? Jim Wooden? Well, no, that's not fair. Wait, that's not fair. The city council voted nine to nothing to do what you wanted to open up the street or close down the street. And there's a disagreement with the city managers. But the celebration continues, right? Correct. Okay. And what do you, I mean, you know, I think you're in denial if I may. And I don't mean this. No, this is no joke. How do you listen to this all day? No, there's no joke attached to this. When you spoke as lovingly of the customers, of the staff, of the restaurant. How many generations? Are you the fourth generation? What generation? Four generations. Come next Monday, other than the food truck, which is fabulous, unless you strike some deal with somebody, you started working there when you were 12. Correct. You don't think you're going to feel a huge hole in your life? Jim, I've never gone out for lunch in my life. Call me up, we'll go off for lunch. Between 203 and 205. Yeah, on a Tuesday next Tuesday. That's right. He's available for lunch. Really quick. Why is it called the S&S deli? Jim, I said that. Essen and Esen and German or Yiddish, my great grandmother came to this country, and that's how she greeted her people. Does not Schwartz and says... Because it means... S and S, and eat and eat. Eat and then it's eat and eat and then that's how it becomes S and S and S. Gary, for people who've been there, one of the other great things about the restaurant, beyond the feeling and the food and the whatever, the whole experience. Jim, that's everything. No, it's not everything. You have photographs on the walls. One photo, which you'll say, by the way, we should say we did a YouTube thing that Nicole and others are working on. will be up soon, which is a more expanded thing of our Sunday visit. We'll let you know when it goes up. There are these beautiful photographs from your great-grandmother to what Inman Square was like 75 years ago. Where are they all going to go? Right now they're going to stay there. I'm hoping that someone will come and buy our brand or that I can help it. Everybody wants some of the artwork. I thought I'd give it to the Historical Commission. That's great. And each piece, you saw that man we talked to for a half hour, wanted that one off the wall. If it has a lot of meaning to people, I don't want their money. I'll be glad to give it to it. By the way, let me tell you something, Gary. You've said three times now. If we cut a deal with somebody. Obviously, someone's in the works and you're just not, I mean, it's obvious. Everybody knows this. Is there a deal in the works? I'm talking to his wife.

deal, raise your right hand and tell me it's no deal. Okay, well, then I trust her. Gary. I'm still waiting. We're not talking about the diet pills? This has been a huge part. I gave you a lot of diet pills. You lost 50 pounds. You owe me. Okay. No, you owe me. By the way, you've been a huge part of my family's life, the community's life. We wish your luck and we can't wait until Sunday. Gary Mitchell. Thank you very much. Order of the now close we think, S&S deli in Cambridge. Thank you so much. Enjoy the wings. We will. We're going to enjoy the wings. Thanks, so as you're listening up on any PM, the fabulous 413. 3 o'clock this afternoon. We're going to keep going here in Boston after this quick break. Get your thoughts on the prevalence of artificial intelligence in your daily lives and how worried you about a data center coming into your backyard? I'm Marjoriegan. Houston Browdy. Listen to BPR, GBAH, and 8PM live from the Boston Public Library streaming at YouTube.com slash GBH News.

Support for Boston Public Radio comes from Cambridge Savings Bank, where they are committed to your financial well-being, and community is at the core of everything they do. Cambridge Savings Bank, always you. More at Cambridge Savings.com, member FDIC. And PNC Bank, reminding you that when you pay attention to the details, amazing things happen. Like when you take the time to check the pockets of a jacket you haven't worn since last fall, and fine 20 bucks. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Welcome to hour number two of Boston Public Radio, 897 GBAH Jim Browdy and Marjorie Egan live from the Boston Public Library. Streaming at YouTube.com slash GBAHN News. Senator Edmark is going to zoom in around 1235 today. Sheldon White House, the Senator from Rhode Island is with us tomorrow. Rachel Rollins, who was forced out of her job as U.S. attorney. is announced that she's going to run for Suffolk County DA. Again, her previous job, her first interview since that happened is going to take place tomorrow. We have a change of plans. We're going to talk about AI and data centers in a few minutes, but now we're going to talk about something else. Hello again. Jim, you can introduce it. Yeah, we're going to give you an update on something that we've been talking about a lot on the show with the governor, with the mayor, with you, a question tentatively headed for the November ballot with a caveat, which will tell you, bringing back rent control to Massachusetts. Last week, housing advocates, the people behind the ballot question, and some developers agreed to a compromise, we hear. The bill, excuse me, who gives cities and towns the option to adopt a specific kind of rent control instead of a statewide blanket rule. The catch, while there are two, Beacon Hill lawmakers have to pass this relatively soon. And secondly, there's some developers who apparently are not on board. Advocates have made it clear that if there is no deal, they will press ahead with the ballot question. One of the developers mentioned the Globe story as part of the compromise was H.Y.M. Managing Partner Tom O'Brien. He's been on our show before. He declined to join us for this conversation, and it appeared that he was not going to join us anytime soon about it. We were lucky enough to have Carolyn Chu, who's the Executive Director of Homes for All Massachusetts. That's the Tenant Coalition leading the ring control ballot question to join us and give us an update. Carolyn, it's great to have you. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. We really appreciate it. So before we get to the ballot question, fill us in, what is this proposed compromise? What would it mean? Yeah, so, you know, we are a group. I represent tenant organizations across the state, and we're seeing people get 60%, 70%, 80% rent increases across the state. We're working with 100 seniors in Southbridge who are facing like an 80% rent increase right now. So this is what brought us here, right?

And we know that Massachusetts tenants need stable and predictable rents to thrive. So we, you know, have been in the statehouse for many years. We've had legislation on the table. And we knew that our folks can't wait as they face an ever-growing crisis. So we put forward the ballot question this fall. last fall, you know, and got 125,000 signatures and a grassroots effort. Through that legislative process this spring, we heard loud and clear from legislative leadership that they wanted us to try to come to an agreement to a compromise with... the real estate industry. Mayor Wu said it right where you're standing that she would reluctantly vote for the question. She thinks it's too strict, but she hopes that a compromise could be caught in the legislature passive. So we took that in earnest, right? And we started, we put it out there after that March hearing that we were open to discussions. And there were some developers who, you know, came to the table and started working with us to craft something that addresses their concerns and still provides tenants the, you know, predictability we need. So that's what we've put forward. And we think this is a real opportunity for us to move forward with something that both, you know, can work for the real estate industry and continue to give tenants the protections that our folks desperately need. Well, what are the details, though? I mean, what does that mean? You just talked about 80% rents. I assume this compromise would bring those increases way down. Yeah, so the compromise proposal we came to has a CPI plus 5 cap of 10 for any city of town that. Consumer price. So inflation plus 10. So that averages about 7 to 9% a year. The cap of 10 is for extraordinary circumstances. It exempts new construction for 15 years, which is up from our ballot question of 10, has some additional exemptions. And the big other thing that, you know, is a big debate between the real estate industry and tenant advocacy groups is something, is market reset, basically between tenants, how much can the rent increase? And so, you know, we had really constructive conversations with industry partners saying, here's our concern. What we see is if... the rent can increase astronomically between tenants, what incentivizes a landlord for not a bad actor in the space from trying to, you know, evict that tenant simply to get more money. With no cause except more money. So we came to an agreement that if we can have strong eviction, tenant protections, that we, you know, we're willing to compromise on that market. So let me, you glossed over two things that I think are central to the difference. The ballot question is a statewide, wide mandate. Correct me if I'm wrong. And the proposed compromise is local option. Exactly, again, like Mayor Wu and a number of cities have proposed. That's number one. If your community doesn't want it and doesn't vote to have it, you don't have it. Though I would say the difference between some of the home rule petitions like you referenced is that this would be one model that towns would either opt into or not versus a patchwork. But it's a local option. They wouldn't need permission from the legislature, by the way.

Without going into the numbers and giving people a headache, your cap on rent in the ballot question is much more strict. than the cap you just described in this compromise. So the issue, as I said at the beginning, Carolyn Chu, is one, other developers apparently were not part of these negotiations, and I guess the legislature cares what they think. And two, the legislature historically, Marjorie mentions all the time fabulous globe piece, showing how much property legislator's own, historically has not been very open to rent control. What's the deal with both of those constituencies? developers considering this and do you have any indication from the legislature that they're You know, what we know is that local developers, the people who live and work in our communities, are generally with us, whether that's, you know, in public or, you know, in private conversations. It's really the large national real estate investment trust, private equity in the housing market that is, you know, that is most opposed to this. And, you know, their opposition is not about the provisions of this policy, but really about what this means for the national context. is really about what's going to work for the Commonwealth and for Massachusetts residents. And we believe, you know, this is a real opportunity for the legislature to pass something that addresses both our need to build more housing and the desperate need for affordability. Whether these national developers, as you call them, supported or not, you're saying, essentially, they should go ahead with this. Okay. You mentioned right at the beginning something horrible that senior citizens in Southbridge are facing 80% rent increases. That's right. So is this at one of these large... developments in Southbridge? Yeah, so this is 110 units in Southbridge. You know, these are... you know, retired firefighters, teachers, everyday people. They contacted us not, you know, out of an ideological position, but because they couldn't believe it was legal that a new landlord bought their building and they suddenly were seeing their rents. Who is this big developer? You know, someone, you know, in the region who saw an opportunity to flip this into workforce housing and make more money, leaving these seniors living on their fixing income. You don't want to name them so we can name them on the radio? There is an article in the globe. happy to share more. But, you know, I would just say this happens.

all across the state, not just in Boston and Somerville, but in places like Southbridge where, you know, large developers and landlords with large portfolios are coming in and seeing an opportunity to flip properties. And we're just saying we need stability, right? We know that we need to build more housing and we need landlords need to make a profit, but that can't be on the backs of lack of predictability for tenants. Okay. Carolyn Chu is the executive director of Homes for All Massachusetts, the leader of the group behind the ballot question. You didn't answer. my question. What's the date you have to submit the second batch of signatures? What is that date? July 1. So if the legislature doesn't pass something by July 1, you would go ahead and submit those signatures and it be on the ballot. Is that correct? Yes. What indications do you have, if any, that the legislature is open to any compromise on this? You know, we believe this is a real opportunity. Yeah, I know, but you've heard from that. I don't mean to cut you off, but the issue is not what... you and others feel is fair, the issue is the legislature has a history of not giving a damn about tenants. Is there any indication from any of the leadership that they're taking this seriously? Yeah, we've been having positive conversations, and we know that we, you know... We've moved a large coalition really far. Not everyone in our coalition is totally happy with where this compromises ended up. But I think this is a real good faith effort for everyone to hear each other and to have come to the table and done something that really addresses both our concerns and the real estate industry's concerns. And it's a real model for how we can come together and do policy here. So if people support the compromise or whatever your position is on the compromise, they're roughly six weeks for the Legislature Act. They should obviously call it. their legislators and ask them to deal with this. Will you continue to give us updates in the next six weeks? I would love to. I mean, this is a really important question. Polling shows your way ahead, but as someone who used to do ballot campaigns, the other side's got a ton of money, and that can cause the numbers to drop precipitously. And we've seen their ads all over TV already. But you know what we say is that unlike some of those other ballot questions, in an open field, you know. Voters are talking about affordability and housing. So this is a different ballgame than, you know, some of those other questions we've heard about. And by the way, we were contacted you tell us this morning by some of the leaders who are not crazy about this. Didn't you say this or our staff meeting this morning? I thought you did. And if they want to join us to explain why this is a bad deal, of course they are welcome. And we'll have them, so you'll hear. It's great to meet you, Carolyn. Good luck to stay in touch with us. Be well. Yeah, thank you very much for coming in. We've been speaking with Carolyn Chu, Executive, Director of Homes for All Massachusetts, a Tenant Coalition, lending the rent-controlled ballot question campaign, leading a rent-control ballot campaign, I should say. Thank you very much, Carolyn, for coming in. Thanks, Carolyn. Appreciate your time. We're going back to what we were going to talk about before, but I just want to mention we have a nice note from our colleague, Cambridge girl, Kelly Crossley, who says she had to stop herself from crime. at the closing of the S&S deli. She loved that place. She can't believe the owner didn't know how much people did love the place. That was Gary. We just spoke with them. So you had to wait a long time to get in on that last day. Everybody was in the morning while we waited to be seated. It was community and good food. So there go. The imprimatur, is that how you say it? Impromontore, Jim. Jim doesn't hear me.

Okay. Yes, that's from Callie Cross. We're going to talk about AI coming up. Data centers want to sprout up all over Massachusetts. How do you feel about that? And how are you feeling about AI? 877301-8970. No, you listen to Boston Public Radio at the Boston Public Library. Welcome back to BPR on 897 GBAH, Marjoriegan Jimbrelli, live at the library streaming YouTube.com slash GBAH. Before I get to the topic at hand that we're going to talk to you about, Callie Crossley texted us after... I just read it. Oh, you did? On the air? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. My headphone was off. My apologies. So if you Google, do you avoid AI in your daily life, the first response that pops up is Google's proprietary AI itself, Gemini, telling you it can't avoid AI because it is AI and it doesn't, quote, eat, sleep or socialize. Increasingly, it seems like neither to humans in the traditional sense, two human brains interacting just with their human brains without the augmentation of large language models, prompts, video, and photo editing, etc. All of which is say is AI, as you know, is everywhere. Gemini is built into every Google app. AI prompts from social media like Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Elon Musk-Grock has more or less taken over X, and all those AI searches run through data centers. I was stunned by this number in the globe. There are 44, some are small, already located in Massachusetts, and there could be more soon. So the lines are open at 873301-89-7 in Kohler Text. Are you worried about all the data centers, the energy they consume, the water they need to cool things down? How are you balancing the infiltration of AI prompts? You allow the auto-fill prompts to respond to your loved ones, even if you get a ping of guilt every time you hit send without crafting your own human message. or are you trying to reclaim some of your brain power opting out of AI as much as possible for the sake of the environment and maybe your own humanity? The number is 877-301-89-7. I guess there are two questions. One, how you feel about these data centers that are popping up all over the place? By the way, in Utah, one is proposed that is two times the size of Manhattan in Utah. And secondly, are you trying, maybe unsuccessfully, to opt out of using AI in your daily life? Well, you know, I said this at you before. I can't believe that this is happening. Which? That these data centers are going up all over the place, and we know that they're going to use massive amounts of fossil fuel, because we can't have any wind farms under Donald Trump, take massive amounts of water, cause...

all these problems in these cities and towns where they're going to. And everybody's just supposed to say, okay, let's come right in. We talked about this last week. This place up in Lowell, this is, High Martha Bray's got a great piece of the globe. He calls it this... ominous black cube of corrugated concrete towers four stories high and when you look at the picture it's right behind this lovely street of they look like two families or just lovely houses look like they're a hundred years old and this big thing is looming there and the neighbors talk about how There's all these diesel generators spewing all this gunky stuff into the air, and that they have all this mist coming off the top of the building, which winds up spraying them in their driveways. And they're just supposed to be fine about this. I mean, Bernie Sanders, once again, Bernie Sanders says there should be a moratorium in any more of these data centers, which seven in ten Americans do not want in their backyards until slow them down. until we have more of a handle on what these are all about. It's just, you know, when you read about all these AI companies now going in and they're going to have their, you know, big IOPs, so what they call them? IPOs, we call them. IPOs, go backwards. IPOs and become a trillion-dollar companies are close to that. I mean, it's kind of like just, are we just a bunch of suckers here? Well, you know, the Democrats in Congress, we're going to speak to one in about 15 minutes, Ed Markey. apparently have a piece of legislation, maybe it's Bernie Sanders, to ban or at least provide a moratorium on construction. Is it Bernie Sanders of all these data centers? To stop or slow down data center development, more than 140 activist groups in 24 states are aiding this group as well. I mean, on the bright side, they're going to give you a lot of tax revenue. I mean, they will pay a lot of taxes at town. And there are a ton of jobs. And a ton of jobs. But again, I mean, the pollution problems here and the deprivation of towns of their water and people skyrocketing electric bills. That's what that's going to mean. Well, it's interesting to say that because when we asked more Healy about this, we've actually asked her about two months in a row. Here's what she had to say during a recent visit about data centers in Massachusetts. Data centers can't suck all the energy off the grid away from all of us. So they've got to find a way to generate their own power and not affect. what's already on the grid. Meaning they shouldn't, their need for power shouldn't cause your electric bills to go up. But you would add one thing to what the governor says and says the source of their power should not be fossil fuels. You think there should be legislation in the State House in Washington saying it's got to be renewable energy that provides the power for these operations. And by the way, you know, we're all paying $450 at the gas pumps now. I mean, maybe it's time to think about how long do we want to be held hostage by crises in the... Middle East, which seemed to come very... We don't have to worry, because he just invested 700 million in coal plants the other day. So that'd be the President of the United States. I think most of us want clean air and clean water. That's not... We don't want to breathe in a coal dust. Let's take some coals. Annie in, I think you're in Cranston. Welcome to the show. Ann, I'm sorry. I got both things wrong. Hello.

That's okay. I answer to both. Thank you for taking my call. Pleasure. I'm retired. So fortunately, I'm not required to use AI during work if they don't work. And I have several friends who work at very large companies that are required to use AI, and the companies track them. I don't use the prompts when I'm doing Gmail. I don't use the prompts when I'm texting. not to use the prompts when I'm searched. I have a real problem with the environmental force, with the pollution, with the fact that water is a finite resource, and we don't have enough of it to satisfy their requirements, and then there's a whole energy component. I do like Marjorie's suggestion that they be required to power themselves with renewables. That's a great idea. Ann, thank you much for your call. We appreciate it. Listen to this. This is from Amber and Worcester. My hometown of Luther, Oklahoma, had a meeting set for a proposed data center from Beltline holdings, and then they had to cancel it because too many residents showed up to protest it. And Stephen Gloucester points out that the data center in Lowell is actually, he's right, housed in the former Prince Spaghetti Factory. Remember Anthony? Anthony. You know, one of the issues is there are a lot of cities and towns. I mean, you've mentioned this, the Globe stories mention it, that are considering or either voted for moratoriums in the state. Isn't this something that the legislature should deal with as a statewide issue rather than leaving every city in town defend for itself? I think it's a federal issue. Well, that's fine, but obviously we're not going to get anywhere with Donald Trump and the Republicans. Well, that's the problem. Well, we have old Democrats on Beacon Hill with a handful of exceptions. and a Democratic governor, so why don't they address this thing head on and do it relatively quickly? I don't have a lot of faith in our legislature. Oh, you don't? No, I don't. Okay, the numbers 877301-8970. You know something? One of these stories from Gallup says more people prefer nuclear power plants now than data centers. Nuclear power plants, I mean, despite, you know, three mile island years ago, have been fairly safe. compared to and they're also probably needed for climate change so there were a couple other places there were problems not just three mile island yeah there was Chernobyl obviously and the meltdown in japan that was horrible no but i agree that most people who we respect who even some who are anti-nuclear power in the beginning have changed their position maybe for you know just because it is so important that there be clean energy that the risk is smaller and maybe it's worth taking. Remember we had Oliver Stone in who made a movie about it and a couple of years ago. Well, a lot of people are thinking that in terms of climate change because the risk of climate change is so immediate and on top of us and we're not moving fast enough away from fossil fuels that nuclear is at least a bridge to when we do have more clean energy. 877301-897. Do you make any effort to avoid using AI in your...

work in personal life? Well, I notice every time I Google something, a little AI thing comes up, of course. So I'm using it in that sense, but I haven't got a chat GPT account or a Gemini account or any of those other things yet. Well, you know that GROC is built into my car, unfortunately, and it is stunningly convenient. And I try to stop myself. Most times I reflexively just, you know, start speaking an issue into the car. It's really hard. I mean, it's sort of, it's really hard. 877301, 897. I don't know how to pronounce. I think it's Marie in Dover. Mary or Marie? Hi. Hi. Hi. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. What's your first name? Mari. Mari. I'm so sorry. I've gotten every name wrong. I'm sorry, Mari. Welcome to the show. Hello. Hi, how are you? Great. So I just wanted to say that, you know, there is a lot of things that we need to worry about AI, but if we stop as a country, so this is a technology that, you know, has a promise to put our country forward. So we can't really just stop. It's going to keep going. So where does that leave you? If it's going to keep going, meaning put some restraints on it so it's not out of control, is that where you end up? We lost you for like five seconds right in the middle. That's why I'm asking. Yeah, so basically we can put guard rails. We have to be mindful about how to regulate it, but it's not like we can stop it. Because even if we stop, other countries are going to continue doing research. Well, that's a good point. The problem is not to get back to Donald Trump once again is he has been until recently totally opposed to any kind of regulation of AI. Now I think that there is more talk that, you know, especially when you have this guy from Anthropics saying doesn't want to release some of his stuff because it's too dangerous. We talked about this yesterday, the day before, that, you know, we don't want to wait until there's some horrible disaster that happens and then we start regulating. We should be regulating it now, but it's kind of one of the crisis. I think we face as Americans that we have these big looming issues and we're not preparing for them. You know what's preparing for them as usual? China. Europeans, too. Okay, so here's Andrew and Dorchester. AI is a scourge. We don't want it. Instead of Gem and I, I'll use Jim and Marjorie. Thank you. Thank you. Here's a good one. I love this one. Anonymous Texer. Make the companies build the centers at their CEO's main residence property. I mean, that's, you know, it's sort of like NIMBY, not in my backyard. When you see that photograph that is so haunting in Lowell. Look it up. It's in the globe. One of the executives of the Merckley company that built that are going to want that in their neighborhood? And they're going to want spray in their driveway and mist in their driveway. noise. The guy talks about, and one of the guys in there just talks about the humming, the constant humming, he hears coming from this place. And he's kind of stuck because it's already there. The diesel generators on the roof. Jim Jordan and Somerville, welcome to the show, Jim Jordan. Hi. Hey, guys. First off, thanks for your show. Love the show and the banter. Keep up. Thank you a lot. We really appreciate it. What's up?

Cool. Just a little kind of side note on the AI, because I kind of felt stuck also, as Marjor was talking about, using how Gemini and whatnot on the Google search bar is just sort of obligatory now. Yeah. If you just type in your question and whatever you want to say on Google, and then at the very end, you kind of add in a little hyphen or a minus sign AI, it does not automatically generate that answers for you through AI. I didn't know that. Say that again, please. Tell me, Jim Jordan. Yeah, if you just type in your question or your statement, whatever you're asking Google, at the very end of that question or statement, you can put in a minus AI, and it will not automatically generate that question through AI for you. Jamie just did exactly what you said and said that works beautiful. Thank you. That is huge. Thank you for sharing it with us. Yeah, you're very welcome. How'd you find that out? How'd you find that out? I'm going to be honest. AI is just the scourge of our earth right now, so I was doing my best not to use it. Luckily, my position, my career does not press it on me, so I went on Reddit, and Reddit just got all the answers of all the world. That's great. Thanks for sharing. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Yeah, the AI thing does come up all the time, and then it says go deeper with AI down the bottom. But you don't know if it's reliable. Many times it's not reliable. Let me ask you a question. What? If you had a guess, what time do you think you will call me or Jamie tonight to say, what did that woman Jim Jordan say? I got it. How you do? Minus AI. That's easy to remember. Did you try it? Jamie, Jamie tried it. It worked. It's working. Minus AI. Jim Jordan, we're indebted to you. It's fabulous. Anonymous texture says, AI is unavoidable like microplastic. Scrook is baked into X, Gemini into Google, Android phones, co-pilot into everything of Microsoft. Siri will be Gemini's soon on Apple. Resistance is futile. There you go. We just have to lie down in the middle of the street and just run us over. Josh and a car, you are next on BPR. Welcome to the show. Hey, turn the radio down. Hey, hi. Thank you. First time, long time. Thank you. Okay, let me turn off this. That'd be a good idea. Yeah. That's a good idea. Perfect. Excellent. So first time, long time. Now, I wanted to say that I really think there's another perspective to this. I worked for Oracle for many years. Yep. And we were part of a big layoff in the end of March to fund AI data centers. And they had already taken out a $20 billion bond to fund these data centers, and then the market didn't like that at all. So they got rid of a bunch of people, not because they were placing those positions with AI, but because this needed the money to build these data centers. So it's just a spinning kind of a thing. People keep using AI and they think the demand is there and they can't meet the demand with the existing infrastructure. I do agree with a previous caller that there's no getting away from it. I recently listened to a podcast about 2001 of Space Odyssey. That's what we can't do now. We can't unplug it. Yeah. So where do you end up? What's the end of the sentence? What's the end of the thought there, Josh?

The thought is, I agree if you don't want to use AI, you should try to avoid it. I love the minus AI moment. That was great. But I also think we should be putting in laws to ensure that the data centers are not using public resources, and they can use wind, solar, and other. natural waste of power these things in Texas, a lot of the data centers are powered by solar, but the water is a huge issue. Well, Josh, there's actually a Democrat in the Senate who's joining us about a minute, and we'll ask him where he thinks his colleagues may go on this. Josh, thanks for your thoughts and your call. We appreciate it. Yeah, we are moving on to that gentleman in the Senate. Ed Markey is zooming in. He's going to be with us, our senator here, in just two seconds. Thanks for all your calls and texts on AI. And we're going to talk with Ed Markey, our senator. In just a second, you're listening to Boston Public Radio, 897GBH broadcasting live from the Boston Public Library, streaming at YouTube.com slash GBAH news.

Welcome back to BPR and 897GBH. Marjorie Egan, Jim Browdy, live at the library streaming at YouTube.com slash GBH news. Tomorrow we'll be joined by, well, we'll actually play an interview we're doing this afternoon with Rachel Rollins, who, as you know, was the Suffolk DA. She was then became the U.S. attorney from Massachusetts, was forced to resign. She's now running for her Suffolk DA seat currently occupied by a successor. Kevin Hayden will talk to her. First interview she's doing, and Senator White House from Rhode Island will also zoom in. Speaking of senators, we're joined now in Zoom from Washington by Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey. Senator Ed Markey is running for re-election. He is opposed in the Democratic primary by Congressman Seth Moulton. Senator Ed Markey, it's good to see you. Thanks for your time. Great to be working. Thank you. Senator Ed Markey, thank you very much for joining us. You know, only because we just spent 20 minutes talking about this with our listeners who are nervous about AI, nervous about data centers. I know the president has been loath to regulate AI. But what, if anything, is, you know, you're down there in Congress. Do you think could happen vis-a-vis... both data centers and regulation of AI. Let's start with the data centers because a lot of people in Massachusetts are very worried about them. Well, obviously, AI is going to insinuate itself into every single aspect of American life. And we just have to make sure that AI stands for all included. And it's why, over the last two and a half years, I've introduced four major pieces of the legislation. Number one, the AI Civil Rights Act, endorsed by every major civil rights group in the United States. Because as AI continues to expand, we're seeing a migration of the discrimination that exists in the real world, in housing, in education. healthcare, in employment, all migrating over in these algorithms to this AI work that is unfolding. So I've introduced that piece of legislation. I've introduced my AI and workers bill to make sure that AI cannot be used in a way that turns workers into robots, workers into nothing more than just extensions of machines. I've introduced my AI. and teenage and children's privacy bill. Because as bad as it is today, without protections being put in place, it's going to be a devastating mental health impact on teenagers and children in our country. I've already been successful on passing a bill on the Senate floor just eight weeks ago with Bill Cassidy in order to put those protections in place. And finally, AI in the environment.

They're not. This is not going to be resolved. And so the Iranians right now realize the power which they have, and ultimately we're going to wind up with them, actually receiving compensation from the Trump administration, from funds which we control in a way that has never been something that he's been willing to talk about. And meanwhile... The world's been going on, like you're saying, for 102 days. There's $100 billion worth of taxpayer money that's been spent, $55 billion worth of energy costs that are now going through our system. Inflation is up 4.2% according to today's report, and that's rippling right through the kitchen tables of every single person in our country. Gas prices are up, room prices are up, health care costs, up, grocery prices are up, everything is up, up, up. and they're not going down. So Trump warned that he's willing to pay the price being over there. And he's going to pay the price, though. It's going to be the American people who pay the price. And meanwhile, he's saying, that the federal government doesn't have the money for Medicare, Medicaid, for child care. So this formula is something that's going to ripple itself right into the election this year because of the fundamental harm that Americans are feeling across the point. Senator Ed Markey, when I hear the President of the United States talk about almost anything, but particularly the war, it reaffirms my non-expert position that he is not mentally competent. Most elected officials... don't like talking about his mental health. Do you think the President of the United States is mentally competent to do this job? My problem, first of all, I think that we should impeach Donald Trump. We should impeach him. What he's doing on an ongoing basis is impeachable, but just looking at him, it's all about him, it's all about his family. It's all about his corporations, its cronies. That's what it's always better. When he was making fun of the citizenship of Barack Obama 15, 20 years ago, what we have today is just an extension of that. in terms of the detached from reality, deliberate insinuation of these issues into the American dialogue that have no tethering to reality. And so when he wants a $1.8 billion fund to pay off the KKK descendants, oathkeepers, proud boys, the people who are in this building, injuring and killing, 150. police officers. All of this is all meant ultimately, in my opinion, so it's a very calculated plan to fix and rig the elections this fall. That's where I think it's all heading.

It's all heading towards him now having the director of national intelligence with the mortgage guy on board talking about the elections. It's about the new attorney general, Todd Blanche, saying that it'll be okay to put ice on the streets for the elections this year because he knows that if the Democrats control the House and Senate, then we are going to do the investigations of this corruption. But all you can eat buffet of corruption, which Trump has created in our country, and it's all to enrich him. Senator, you didn't speak to. He doesn't know is how to enrich his family, and it comes at the expense of everything else in our society. Briefly, if you can. The commander and chief of corruption. You didn't speak to his mental competence. Is that because you don't think it's an issue? I'm looking at his actions. Okay. It's his actions, which are, from my perspective, impeachable. Okay. He is now doing in public what Richard Nixon was doing in private, and that was impeachable. And he's doing it on steroids. So from my perspective, Trump should be impeached because he is in fundamental violation of the rule of law. And we have to, as soon as we win this election and control the House and Senate, begin those impeachment proceedings. Because it really doesn't make any difference. It's what you do that is impeachable, not what you're thinking and what he is doing right now. is fundamentally at odds with the whole history about democracy and rule of law. We're talking to Senator Ed Markey. There's hope now that Trump has become less popular that Democrats might have a chance, not just in the House, but in the Senate this year. But in terms of ICE, Congress has already passed ICE funding. I think it's $70 billion, something like that. Oh, it's $70 on top of the earlier funding. Yeah, another $70 billion. So that basically means that there's enough money for ICE, a lot of money for ICE right through the end of President Trump's term. Is there anything that Congress can do about that or not? Well, first of all, I believe we should abolish ICE. I actually have never supported ICE even in its creation. I opposed it. So from my perspective, that's the goal the Republicans have. $140 billion last year that was appropriated that they have not spent yet on ICE and other agencies. Now they want an additional $70 billion. Well, why do they want that? They wanted, ultimately, in order, yeah, to continue this whole crusade of making America great again by making America pay again. But they need the ICE agents for the election suppression plan, which they are clearly putting into place. All that money could have gone to Medicaid. All that money could have gone to doubling the NIH budget. That's not their concern.

They're concerned, and it was animated, let's be honest, it was animated by the Save Act that they were trying to pass to suppress the votes of minorities, of kids, of married women, because it's to save their asses out. They know what's coming. And so ICE is going to be a part of it. When the president says he could invoke the Insurrection Act, when he says he could activate the army and the Marines, well, ICE agents are the ones that he's going to put out on the streets. And that's why he needs that funding. Senator, you mentioned a minute ago, Marjorie mentioned it too, the possibility of the Democrats taking over the Senate. Most analysts believe that if that's the happen, that Susan Collins needs to lose to Graham Platner. You were asked on CNN the other day if you supported Graham Platner and you said you supported a lot of his policies, you wouldn't say whether you supported his candidacy or not. He is now the Democratic nominee. Does he have your support? Yes. I endorse Graham Platner. The road to taking over the majority for the Democrats goes through May. I support Graham Platner. I support the agenda that he is running on. He's running on an affordability agenda and accountability agenda and anti-corruption agenda. He is running on an agenda that the American people want to see implement. I support our grand partner. And not only in Maine, but in North Carolina, in Ohio, in Iowa, in Texas, and with James Talarico, we go up in Alaska. We've got a chance, a very good chance of winning the Senate this year, but it goes through Maine. And that's why I support a grand plan because he's running on the right issues. He's running on those kitchen table issues, those corruption issues, that the voters of Maine and our country. want to have a pipeline. You know, Senator, part of what he's appealed to the main voters, at least is what some of them have said, is he's a new generation of Democrats. That's part of the argument that Seth Moulton, who is running, the Congressman Seth Moulton, who is running against you for the Senate, is arguing that he's a newer generation and you've been in Congress for 50 years. So what's your rejoinder to that? Well, again, it's not your age. It's the age of your ideas. And I've always been the youngest person in the room. My opponent actually trades stocks on businesses that appear before the committee that he serves on in the House of Representatives. It's a personal self-enrichment program for him and for his family. I don't take corporate back money. He does. He says he does not support Medicare for all, that that's too high a bar to create. I do support Medicare for all. He says that he believes that taxing billionaires is class whopping. I believe that taxing billionaires is ensuring that they pay their fair share in our country for the education, for the health care, for environmental protections for every American.

So there are big differences. between me and my own. And I'm going to be fighting for the ordinary families in our country. This fight brings up the Malden and me. My father was a truck driver. And I'm going to be fighting for all of those families who right now are just wondering how they're going to be struggling. And you just can't have people who are trading stocked for the whole person on Richmond on those businesses that are coming in. before committees. I want the power in the hands of the people. So, Senator, he's called you, Seth Moulton has called you a terrific senator from Massachusetts. Doesn't sound like you think he's been a terrific congressman from Massachusetts. Well, from my perspective. The generational change, which we need, won't be coming from the wealthiest people in our country. And it's my job to make sure that it's the workers' voices who are being heard. We can't just be satisfied with the status quo. We have to fight against this. this corruption, this authoritarian control, which is now extended itself over our country, we have to make sure that we give real shots for... for opportunity in our country, and it's not going to be driven by the private equity industry. It's going to be driven by ordinary families across our country. Senator Ed Markey, I have three very quick things to which I hope you'll give a quick response. Speaking of endorsements, you mentioned Graham Platner. You and Senator Warren were huge advocates. for Rachel Rollins to take over his U.S. attorney when she was nominated by Joe Biden. You know, she stepped down after two investigative reports that she'd made ethics violations. I'm interviewing her this afternoon. Do you support her candidacy to return as Suffolk DA? I have not blocked. at that race, but, you know, and I will do so in the future, but at this time I have not looked at that race. How about staying in the justice system? Do you support expanding the number of people in the Supreme Court?

Yeah, I want to expand the number of members of the Supreme Court. The Republicans, Donald Trump, which Mitch McConnell, they swipe two seats on the Supreme Court. And I believe they have to expand it by four seats up to 13. That's the legislation which I have introduced. And it's towards the goal of ensuring that we do not allow for this continuation of six to three votes on everything that is absolutely central. to the well-being of American families. That's why I support the abolition of the filibuster, and then the expansion of the Supreme Court, because we can't wait 20 years. We can't wait 25 years in order to have a Supreme Court that actually reflects the values in our country. And that is something that I have been introducing its legislation and absolutely believe is essential to ensuring a true democracy. in our country and it's why we have to abolish the electoral college and we are why we need a constitutional amendment to abolish citizens united as a decision in our country that's allowing for all of this There's stock money to flood into the politics of our nation. We only have a minute left. Every single time you've been on for years, we bring up my favorite subject, a thing you've been sponsoring forever, which is year-round daylight saving time. Now that Donald Trump supports it as well, are you thinking of switching your position? Well, you know, even a broken clock is right. You know, once a day, and even a blind squirrel bumps into an acorn once in a while. Okay, fine, we got it. Does this have any chance? On this one issue, we do agree that the sun is a good idea. Okay. He supports taking away the tax breaks for solar energy in our country, and I believe it's a solution. But in terms of daylight savings time, and Americans having that daylight every day, so the corners of their mouths have turned upwards in enjoyment. of daylight and sunshine. Yeah, I'm on board. May you both succeed on that issue. Ed Markey, thank you for your time. We really appreciate Senator. That was Senator Ed Markey's zooming in from Washington, D.C. We much appreciate his time. Thank you for the addition to Boston Public Radio. And everybody who came down to this show at the Boston Public Library. Tomorrow. Can I say something first? What? The YouTube video of the final day of Cambridge's S&S restaurant is now posted on YouTube, so check it out. Okay. JVHNews.org. Tomorrow we're going to be joined by political commentator Chuck Todd, Mitchell Garabedian, who defended, who represented, I should say, many hundreds of children in these pre-sexual abuse victim. Rachel Rollins, who was forced from her job as U.S. attorney after an ethics investigation. She now wants to run to reclaim her old position as district attorney of Suffolk County. Her first interview since that announcement is going to be tomorrow. She joins us. Well, she's not going to join us. The interview is going to join us. I want to thank our crew, Zoe Matthews, Nicole Garcia, Hannah Loss, Ariana Gonzalez, additional support from Jack Siciliano, our engineer, John LaClaude Parker, our executive producer, Jamie Bologna, special thanks to our BPL staff, Maddie Guy, Patrick Lally.

Eddie Hickey, Juan Jose Kiddenia, our security team, Darius and Derek, and our host at the News Feed Cafe across the street as well, the guys at the Lenox Hotel. Stay tuned to the Curiosity Desk, which starts right after us. Edgar be heard the third here on 897 GBAH, and the culture show at Jared Bowen starts at 2 o'clock, also live here from the Boston Public Library. Two shows coming up right after us here at the Boston Public Library. I'm Marjoriegan. Jim Browdy. Curiosity Desk is not here. Oh, it's not? No. The culture show is here. Thank you, Jim. So stick around. What would I do without you? Jamie just told me. I had no idea. See you tomorrow. Thanks so much, everybody. Bye.