Fauci CLAMS UP, Plus Newsom's Affair and Woke Plagiarism Scandal, with Mike Davis, Rich Lowry, and Charles Cooke | Ep. 1370

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Constitution. Dr. Anthony Fauci, would you like to at least answer this one question for us today and let us know whether or not you've changed your mind on whether or not the benefits of gain of function research outweigh the risks? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. So he was just as forthcoming before the committee as he was when he was running our COVID response. which we now know from his personal diaries involved multiple lies and obfuscation. I mean, it was like, we'll get into this in a second. If you're going to assert the Fifth Amendment, you typically assert the Fifth Amendment on anything because you don't want to be tricked into waiving your rights. You know, don't want it to be like a landmine into getting you to say something about, whoops, oh, I started the pandemic. But this guy took this to laughable. lengths. Watch. In the red folder on your table is a copy of Section 192 of Title II of the U.S. Code. Your counsel has been provided a copy as well. That section makes it a crime for a witness appearing under subpoena to refuse to answer any questions pertinent to the question under inquiry. Do you have that in front of you? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. Let the record record record that the witness has refused to answer whether there's a folder in front of him based on his Fifth Amendment right. You mean you could hear the audible laughter and the frustration from Republican senators there who were seeking to be the voice of their voters looking for... any tiny modicum of responsibility to be taken by this man. This is the man by his own admission who got the schools closed across the country and specifically patted himself on the back for doing it in New York and L.A. Two of our biggest cities. This is the man. You have to blame. This is the man who strong-armed the CDC into mandating vaccines, mandating masks, and so on. This is the guy. Just a tiny modicum of responsibility taking. And that's what the Republican senators are trying to get. They're getting ripped on MS now for that effort. And they were utterly unsuccessful. You can't force him on the spot to answer when he's refusing. He showed up with a battery of lawyers. We'll get to that in a second. Here is newly elected, relatively, Ohio Senator Bernie Moreno trying for us all. Can you do me a favor in the audience and stand up if during the time of the COVID pandemic, you were called a racist for calling the virus? a Wuhan virus or the China virus. If you thought the six-foot rule was total crap, if you thought the vaccine wasn't something that you should take, if you thought it was outrageous the way the mass policy was rolled out, if you were fired from your job for not taking that vaccine, including members of the military, if you thought closing schools was catastrophically stupid, and that you thought that during these times saying these things,

made you somehow a lesser human being. Dr. Frederick, can you just turn around and look at the people behind you? You're not willing to do that? That's not a question. It's not a question. It's not a question. It's a request. All you have to do is look up from your lawyers and look at the people who were absolutely shamed for saying what we know now to be the truth. You can't even look at them? That's a question. Are you able to look at them? On the advice of counsel, I mean, that's how it went. Good for him for trying. But Senator Marino was not done. Watch. When that story broke, I said to myself, I cannot stand idly on the side and watch this happen. It was about six years ago today that I decided I'm going to give up my businesses, sell them all. run for office, run to the United States Senate. Here I am sitting in front of you six years later saying, who the fuck do you think you were for doing that? Yeah, great questions. Great questions. There's a major legal question regarding Anthony Fauci's non-testimony today. President Joe Biden infamously gave Anthony Fauci a sweeping. preemptive pardon for any federal crimes related to his government service from 2014. You may remember the pandemic began in 2020, but this pardon went back six years earlier. Could it have been to the date that his gain of function research began? Because the pardon went from 2014 to January 19th, 2025, the date of the pardon. It's not legally allowed to go beyond that date. You can't like say for all acts in the future forever. Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, who was, he is a lawyer, he cleared for the Supreme Court, and he was Missouri's AG for a time, or was it AG or Solicitor General or both, I think. In any event, a talented lawyer believes that Anthony Fauci cannot claim his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination because he's already been pardoned against any criminal liability. Watch. Just get one thing straight. You don't have any rights under the Fifth Amendment because you've been pardoned, as you very well know, as the Supreme Court has been clear for a century and more. Brown v. Walker, 1896, when he has been pardoned, he may not stand upon his privilege. You know that. Your lawyer is sitting behind you now shifting nervously in their chairs. They know it. This isn't about the Constitution. This isn't about the law. This is about contempt. Contempt for this body and contempt for the American people. Joining me now with Analysis is attorney and founder and president of the Article III project, Mike Davis. We wouldn't be celebrating America 250 if it weren't for a strong foundation set by the framers. Hamilton built America's financial foundation on the principle of sound, stable, money, a principle later embodied by the gold standard. But we abandoned that discipline in 1971, infamously, and have since seen inflation erode the dollar's value. So what's the foundation of your savings? Is it gold?

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You state your opinion that he's a mass murderer. So there may be some who are thinking that's too harsh. I'm not one of them, Mike, because there is good evidence that has never been proven entirely, but there is very good evidence that he started the pandemic, that it was his gain of function research that he was paying for, that he knew was dangerous being handled at an unsafe lab that led directly to the creation of this virus, something he's never allowed a full investigation of and we've never pursued as fully as we ought to. And I do believe it's what motivated virtually every decision he made after that. He did not want to be exposed as having funded that dangerous research, which very clearly seems to have led to the entire pandemic worldwide, a million Americans dead alone. Just here in the United States, not to mention all the damage and lives lost from his vaccine, which he would not be honest about, which he would not force. honest trials on, which he told us was safe without knowing. And so on, we could be here all day when we talk about the lives. But I get it. I understand. Well, no, it's actually worse, Megan, because not only did he fund this, this gain of function research, this COVID in the Wuhan lab, then he shut down the science. He shut down alternative treatments. He caused the deaths. of millions because he shut down alternative treatments that could have saved people's lives. He shut down and said that you can't do this. It's not the science. We know that's not right. Like Ivermecta, he'd shut that down. Anthony Fauci is a monster and he must be held accountable for mass murder. How, Mike, do you get at him, though, when... He's still exposed when it comes to state law. Now, I can't think of a state law claim that's, you know, being held over Anthony Fauci's head or even what it might potentially be. But that wouldn't have been in the Joe Biden pardon. So isn't he just going to respond to when, you know, this contempt proceeding happens? I was still exposed under state law claims and I was exposed for anything I might say that day that Republicans, the evil Republicans would say was false. And therefore, I just decided not to answer anything. Well, he can't do the part about the evil Republicans would say it was false. He wouldn't have Fifth Amendment protections for that because he has the part, right? But as for the state laws, federal officers generally can't be charged by states or foreign governments for performing their duties. But if he does argue that he could be liable under state laws, then he's admitting that he acted outside of the scope. of his federal office when he did these things. And therefore, he would be subject to criminal prosecution by these states. So go for it. I hope to look, we need to turn up the heat on this guy. We need to bring charges against him by the Trump Justice Department. Make him present his Biden pardon. That's what you have to do. That the way it works is if you are pardons, you can't, you present your pardon, your presidential pardon or a governor's pardon at your criminal trial as an affirmative defense. Make him do that. If he doesn't, maybe he's claiming the Fifth Amendment because he didn't accept Biden's pardon. Who knows? I don't know if he's ever said whether he accepted Biden's pardon. If he doesn't accept the pardon, then he's not pardon. So charge him for his crimes before the pardon. And then make him raise that. Make that rate, make him raise.

that defense. And then if it's, okay, I was pardon and I did accept the pardon, then he could be charged with contempt of Congress and obstruction of a congressional investigation. So you're saying if he accepted that pardon, he absolutely has to answer questions about conduct that is within the pardon because it's the same as when you give a witness immunity. They can't, in a court of law, assert the Fifth Amendment as a bar to answering questions because they've been given immunity. The jeopardy no longer hangs over them and therefore they must answer. A court would order them to answer. And you're saying it's exactly the same here. Yes. And I would say this, of Anthony Fauci. Or if his lawyer say, no, no, no, we're still subject to liability by states, by local governments, by foreign governments, which there are statutes that protect federal officers from that. But if he's saying that he's still subject to that liability, then I would say to these states, to these local prosecutors, these state AGs, these local prosecutors across America, start indicting Anthony Fauci today. Yes, yes, do it. Let's put that to the test and see him object and say, no, no, no, no, my behavior's not within this scope of your state law. I'm protected as a federal officer and then have to go back to Rand Paul and answer on these immunity arguments. Here is, I want to read to you what Alan Dershowitz, a friend of the program said when we called him to ask what his take was. He wrote, and let's not forget, Alan defended Trump in the first impeachment. He said, if I were his lawyer, I would have told him to take the fifth. This was a kangaroo court. Rand Paul was out to get him and was trying to get evidence against him. As hard as it is to take the fifth, because it makes it sound like you're guilty. I don't think his lawyer had any choice. And then for him to throw the lawyer out of the proceeding really emphasize the kangaroo nature of it. Whatever you think of Anthony Fauci, this is not a fair proceeding designed to really get at the subtleties of all these issues. It was a gotcha. We'll show the video of Rand throwing out his lawyer in one second, but your response to that. Look, I love Alan. I think he's very smart, but Congress has a constitutional duty here to make sure that we don't have another mad scientist like Anthony Fauci who causes... A pandemic that kills millions of people, takes trillions of our treasure, takes three years, four years of our lives, destroys kids, destroys poor kids even worse. I think Congress has an important and legitimate role here. And Rand Paul was doing that, was performing those duties today as the chairman. It's not, you can make that argument about every congressional committee that you, if you don't want to go testify that it's a kangaroo court. And that just doesn't apply. Remember, Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro went to jail for making that argument. What did you make of the, I get that it's not atypical to see a person asserting the fifth, assert the fifth in response to every question. Like we've seen that happen many times. But I really thought it was, it was really stunning today. It was like, what color is your tie? He wouldn't answer. What did you make of the extreme lengths he went to on the fifth? Well, this is where Anthony Fauci may have, may have,

screwed himself in this testimony today is he gave an opening statements, right? If you can't give an opening statement and make all your points and then claim the Fifth Amendment to questions, that's a waiver of your Fifth Amendment rights if you go in and make an opening statement on the substance like that. So I think he's cooked on the Fifth Amendment in many different ways. Yeah, I thought that was extraordinary too. He did make statements, sweeping statements about the pandemic in that opening and then pretended the subject of what the color of his tie was was too sensitive for him to go there. Grant Paul now is going to have this contempt proceeding. And who will be the arbiter, though, of that, Mike? Who gets to decide whether he's in contempt? Well, it would be the full Senate. It was a simple majority vote of the full Senate. Then it gets referred to the D.C. U.S. attorney, Judge Dean Piro, and she has to take it to a grand jury by statutes. And then, or you can, again, there are two other routes. You can have the Senate sue and district court in D.C. civilly sue and compel his testimony. Or you can have the Senate have the sergeant alarms go arrest him and put him in the Capitol jail until he agrees to testify. And frankly, do all three things. First through all three pass. Remember what, I want to flag this because remember it came out that after Anthony Fauci got like, he got his COVID shots and then he got a blood clot in his lung, right? That same morning that he found out that he got a blood clot in his lung, he went around with DC mayor, Mario Bowser, and was beating on the doors of these black residents of D.C. people who are. Probably correctly, not big fans of these vaccines because of the Tuskegee trials against the black community where they give him syphilis and didn't treat it. This black resident of DC is pushing back and saying the question, the science is not there. Anthony Fauci is there with the DC mayor pushing this guy saying these COVID shots are safe when Anthony Fauci had a blood clot in his lung. It's unbelievable, right after he gets the vaccines, of course, from Moderna. And he doesn't disclose that to anyone. We only know that thanks to these diaries. And by the way, let me get this point, Megan, about the diaries. Can I make this point really fast? These are not his personal diaries. These are his work notes on his work computer at NIH. These are government records. They're not his personal diaries. So this idea that Rand Paul. grabbed his personal diaries and published his personal diaries as nonsense. They were on his work computer. He tried to, look, they had to go find them because they were deleted, which is another issue of obstruction. Wow. So it's like, you know, you're sitting at your company and you're putting in your company day planner all your hopes and dreams about the next time Julia John Roberts is going to call you. You cannot then later say, oh, that was a personal diary. You put it on the company computer. Sorry, that was your bad. Yes. It's not a personal diary. These were his work notes that are subject to the Freedom of Information Act. These are government records.

And he deleted them, just like he ordered people to delete emails. This guy tried to cover, he committed crimes to try to make sure he never got caught, funding gain of function research and the Wuhan lab that mass murdered millions of people. It's infuriating, and it's the reason why these Republicans continue to push, even though the American public, I do think it's fair to say has some PTSD around this whole thing. You know, they just, they don't want to be reminded of this nightmare, but we need to hold the people who did this to us accountable, and he is top of the list. Mike Davis, thank you. Thank you. Wow. That moment that he was talking about with the black constituents of Washington, D.C., it resulted in a very viral moment where the one guy confronted him. Here it is in SOT 10. The people in America are not settled with the information that's been given to us right now. So I'm not going to be lining up, taking a shot on a vaccination for something that wasn't clear in the first place. And then you all create a shot. and miraculous time. It takes years to create vaccination. Well, it used to take years. Okay, it used to. You know how many years we're invested in this approach? About 20 years of science to get us to be able to do a good thing. And nine months is definitely not enough for nobody to be taking no vaccination that you all came up with. When you start talking about incentivizing things to give people vaccinated, it's something else going on with that. Yeah, it's something else going on with that. You're right. Thank you for, thank you for that. My campaign is about fear. It's about inciting fear in people. That guy was one of the most brilliant to speak during the course of the pandemic. It was just common sense. He knew on a gut level and he spoke truth to power, as the left likes to say. And Anthony Fauci walked away. Okay, let's get to our panel. It's NR Day. Joining me now, Rich Lowry, editor-in-chief of National Review and Charles CW. Cook, senior writer for National Review and host of the Charles CW Cook podcast. You can find all of their work and should by becoming an NR Plus subscriber today. Guys, welcome back. This is pretty remarkable. It is pretty remarkable. And let me just show you one other thing on that same tour around D.C. by Anthony Fauci and the mayor Muriel Bowser, because this has made some headlines, too. This is March of 2023. And here's Anthony Fauci lamenting how difficult it is to get people on the right to submit to his will. Sod 11. What are we going to do about those other states? Oh, my God. They're going to keep the outbreak smoldering in the country.

It's so crazy. I mean, they're not doing it because they say they don't want to do it. They're Republicans. They don't like to be told what to do. And we've got to break that, you know, unpack that. How are you guys doing with vaccine? Oh, I'm going to get it to. Oh, you should get it first. Okay, that way you won't give it to them. Oh, I thought I would give it to them if I get it. No, no, not at all. In fact, we got to get you vaccinated so that. If you were to get infected, you could pass it on to them. So you're actually protecting your family by getting him vaccinated. Oh, my God. The lies, Rich, the lies. Of course, the vaccine did not stop the transmission. And just to hear him say it out loud, it's really kind of remarkable. We've got to break that, the will of the Republican voters who don't like to be told what to do. By the way, I've never heard a better summation of what it means to be a Republican. You know, if you had to say it in five words or less, that's a pretty good summary of where most of us who are on the right side of the aisle are, especially around his edicts. So what do you make of everything that's going on here? Well, Rand Paul's done in public service and releasing these diaries. And I think maybe the foremost lie that's been exposed is when it emerged very quickly during the pandemic and afterwards that the lockdowns went too far. And especially the school closures were a catastrophic mistake. Even people left to center began to admit that. Anthony Fauci started saying, I never favor lockdowns. I never closed to school. And here you have black and white in these diaries. Bill de Blasio calls him. He advises him to shut down the schools. Chief of Staff of Gavin Newsom calls him. He advises her to shut down the schools to have California shut down the schools. So no, in some technical sense. And very often he relies on technicalities. He didn't go to the schoolhouse door and... place the padlock on there but it was his advice that was catalyzing all this and then also in the same diary entries you see the self-regard he refers to his uh... based on my tv appearances based on my multiple tv appearances yesterday new york city is going to close their schools so he was the motive force behind a lot of this folly and that guy in the stoop who went viral at the time is still amazing to uh... here i'm talking back to fouchy that way a lot of people thought that way At that time, more people think that way now, and that's because of Anthony Fauci. So he's undermined what he cared about most, or one of the things he was supposed to care about, most, the credibility of public health authorities. And the main reason, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. is the head of the HHS right now and release these to Rand Paul who made them public is because of the way Anthony Fauci handled the pandemic and his arrogance and high-handedness and dishonesty. You point out the one example of him, you know, I know, show me, show me the school that I closed. Never, never won. And then we see his private diary, again, I'm done on his public workspace. I'm responsible for getting the schools closed in New York and in L.A. I mean, it's directly opposed. It would be. a permissible impeachment. If you had him on the stand in a court of law, you know, no one could object that it's an improper impeachment. It is exactly the opposite of what he said publicly behind the scenes. He was bragging about having done it. But, you know, when cross-examined by Congress, no, never show me this goal. Never won. Of course, it wasn't true. And here's another one. I heard Jim Stacey Garrity lamenting that he wasn't able to find this exact soundbite of Anthony Fauci.

blaming the coronavirus on the wet market because, of course, Stacey Garrity did a great job for National Review reporting on all the COVID excesses and lies we were being told in real time. But we found that, too, in Anthony Fauci's notes where he said it doesn't look like it came from the, it says it now appears that using the data, the first infection was in early December and was not connected to the market, was not connected to the market. He wrote that on January 26th. 2020, and he wrote that right before he made this appearance on the Jaman network and said this. Watch this. It's Sot 9. And now in the novel coronavirus, we don't know exactly what that animal was, but some animal, probably in a wet market. where they bring in a variety of different types of wild game, and people sacrifice them particularly around holidays like the Lunar New Year. It is totally not surprising that you're seeing the facilitation of this jump from the animal species to the human. I mean, Charles, we could be here all day if we... Just wanted to play all the contradictions between what he wrote privately and what he said publicly. And now we finally get to the point where some senators are asking for actual accountability and an explanation for why he was contradicting what he actually felt over and over and over in a matter of public health that went to life and death. And we get the insult, the final insult of, I refuse to answer from a man who's been pardoned for it all. Yeah, so I don't agree with Alan Dershowitz that this is a kangaroo court. This is the United States Senate. I do think that if I were Anthony Fauci's lawyer, I would have advised him to take the fifth as well, asked not to create new perjury charges. which of course would not be covered by the pardon that he was given. He's not honest. And the diary confirms that. Now, I think some of the criticism of the vaccine is wrong. And as you know, I'm not a fan of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.., who I think is a cuck. I think we've gone too far in the other direction, although perhaps that was inevitable. But the clip you played is a perfect example of what is wrong with Anthony Fauci. Anthony Fauci likes to present himself as being the science, the source of truth, an independent and unimpeachable floating expert within our system who is unsullied and uncorrupted by politics. But Anthony Fauci did throughout COVID. Exactly what the sort of politicians he disdains would have done, which is say whatever it took at any given moment to get people to do what he wanted, even if he knew it was untrue. The vaccine, which was very effective in many ways and saved lives in my view, did not prevent the transmission of COVID. But...

Anthony Fauci said over and over again, as did many other people, that it did. That was a lie. Now, why did he say that? He said that because he wanted people to take it. The six feet, was it, separation that we were all subjected to, didn't do anything. They went with it anyway. And time and time again, they worked out what they thought they had to say in order to get people to behave differently. And they said it. In a war, that sort of behavior can be defensible. But you can't claim that you're anything other than a consequentialist propagandist who's trying to deceive people for what you think is their own good. But that's not how Anthony Fauci sees himself. So he's always been somebody who is willing to say whatever it takes to get people to do what he wants them to do. And the diaries as if it wasn't already make that abundantly clear, among other things. Let me stick with you on this, Charlie, because we've talked over the years about conspiracies in America. And neither you nor I nor rich believe, for example, that the 2020 election was stolen. Okay. But this, this guy, these lies at this level. are exactly why people have become so suspicious of government narratives and believe that there are bad actors in the government who wish to control us and will tell massive, hugely consequential lies to do it. Yeah, and to protect themselves because Anthony Fauci clearly believed that he was implicated by the Wuhan lab and therefore he wanted to make it seem as if the... COVID virus came from bats. Funny, one of my colleagues watching this hearing tweeted out, bat got your tongue, which I thought was a perfect summary of the whole thing. The one thing I do find interesting, I must say, is Trump gets absolutely no blame here when, of course, he was the president. at the time and was very much enthusiastic about the vaccine. I like that about Trump. I actually think this is something in Trump's favor. I think there is no other person in probably the history of the United States who could have got the vaccine done as fast as Trump did because he just doesn't care about niceties. But if you don't like the vaccine, maybe you should be more cross with Trump. But you're right. I mean, look, this is a guy who was part of the permanent bureaucracy. You can call it the swamp or the deep state if you like. It's a problem. This is somebody who exhibited all of the arrogance that you expect from a person who belongs to an institution that has been described as being the fourth branch of government or independent within our system, which means unaccountable. This is a person who was willing to lie brazenly. to change the behavior of free people. So yeah, I'm with you. I think this is a good example of problems within our government. Where I get off that, both, I'm not saying you don't. Where I get off that is, I don't think replacing that problem with other conspiracy theories or other people who are susceptible to conspiracy theories is the right way of doing it.

The public health authorities wrote their own suicide note here. This was not Americans being recalcitrant. This is not Americans being uneducated. It's not Americans being selfish. The public health authorities disgrace themselves. And it's not a coincidence, I think, that around the same time this was happening, the same people suddenly decided that men could become women and rewrote all of the medicine, all of the understanding of our biology that they had been promulgating. for thousands of years on the flight and then expected us not to notice. So over the same 10-year period, those people killed themselves in the public estimation and deservedly so. Yeah. At the same time, we're telling us that the virus would know to skip the BLM protesters. Like there was a, the public health emergency would somehow allow those kinds of protests, but none others. I mean, it was just. People ask how we got here, you know, where like everything's being questioned. This is how we got here. I really don't, I don't have a lot of tolerance for, you know, blaming. regular American citizens who are busy living their lives, who have gotten more conspiratorial in a way they definitely wouldn't have been 10 years ago. I don't blame them at all. I blame Dr. Anthony Fauci and the others who facilitated and enabled him, Rich, including the media. Before we get to them, though, let me just spend one more minute on Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who I do not think is a kook. He's odd for sure. He's like picking up snakes that are fighting and like... getting bitten by them and throwing it like it. So he is a strange dude in a lot of ways. But I think he's brilliant and he's fearless. But I know we disagree. In any event, he did make a valid point on with Laura Ingram last night. When he said it, I was like, what? I hadn't seen this piece of the diaries. And we did go back and check, same as we did when he came on our show for the first time when he had written the real truth about Anthony Fauci, and nobody would platform him. And we did, and we fact-checked him forward and backward on that book. And, you know, it was an important interview to his... reemergence as a public figure. But he was right. This is in the Anthony Fauci Diaries. And then right after we found the original entry confirming it, it was deleted from the internet. We believe, most likely, because Anthony Fauci complained that it was private medical information. But it's out there and we're going to talk about it. Here he is on Laura Ingram yesterday. Sat 6. He lied about mass. He lied about the social distancing. He lied about the transmission. He lied about natural immunity. He lied about the capacity, as you just said, of the vaccine to prevent infection, to prevent it. He got vaccinated. I'm very, very public.

press conference in January of 2020. And then five months later, he had, and this is the first time that we knew this from the diary. He had a pulmonary infarction, which is one of the adverse events that NIH, CDC and FDAs that are expected from the vaccine. He never told anybody. He got treated for it privately by the best doctors in America. At the same time, he was telling everybody that that was not an adverse. So he found out that he had a pulmonary infarction after the vaccines in June of 2021, after he'd gotten double doses from Moderna. He found that out in June of 2021. We know from his private diary. Well, it has the date June 19th, horrible roller coaster day. He talked about his cancer scare that turned out to be not real. And then wrote, in addition, I had a pulmonary infarction in the right lowest segment that was definite. He goes on to say, the doctor. agreed it was more likely inflammatory and that the only definite thing on the film was the pulmonary infarction. And he recommended a follow-up CT scan in three months and to begin anticoagulation immediately with eloquists, which by the way is an oral anticoagulant medication used to prevent and treat dangerous blood clots. So this was six months after his second Moderna shot. This was not publicized. And we don't have the exact. date that he was arguing with that man in Washington, D.C. But we know it was in June of 2021. We know it was in June. So there is a very real possibility that Anthony Fauci knew he'd suffered a pulmonary infarction after his double dose of Moderna and still told that guy his claims should be dismissed. It's perfectly safe. You know, this is what they were doing, Rich. This is why there's there's not just PTSD. There's anger. There's anger. Seeing this guy celebrated by Julia John Roberts and Chris Andrew Cuomo and Brian Stelter and all the others on MSNBC and all the stars and all like that Carrie Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is out there defending him. And so there's anger at those people too for enabling this guy who we believe actively hurt the country. Yeah, well, they never permitted any sense of uncertainty, right? So they'd say masks are going to save you from getting affected from the virus, right? And in the media, their headlines, a study shows this is going to happen. Then you look at the underlying study, right? And it would say if you get a perfect... N95 mask, and you get weeks of training on how to apply this and wear this, and you change it every two to three hours in a clinical setting, you know, it will reduce your risk of infection 50%, right? And that'll be laundered into masks work, and every school child in America has to wear a Spider-Man mask. It doesn't even fit that's been slobbered over, and he's not going to wear half the time at school anyway, but everyone has to do that because it's social control. We can't admit that actually, no, this isn't going to work.

and it works in a lab setting. It was all based on social control that couldn't admit any uncertainty. And someone who's truly scientifically minded, say, on the debate of a lab leak theory, would have gone out there every day and said, you know, I think it's probably naturally occurring. But I don't know for certain. Let's wait for the facts. Reasonable people think it's from the lab. Let's see. That's not what he did, even though, you know, on January 26th and February 1st, according to his own diary, he had his own doubts that it was naturally occurring or came from the wet market and heard from very smart other scientists who believe it came from the lab. And he didn't do that because he wanted to support the narrative. And the narrative was it couldn't be from the lab because if you believe that was racist. But it's not racist, by the way, to believe that Chinese people just like eating bats that have been crapped on by penguins, you know, in these fetid markets. That was fine. That was not racist, but thinking it's a lab run by this corrupt government might have been the source of it. You can't say that because it's racist. Also, it's just... branded as a conspiracy theory. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it doesn't mean that groups of people don't sometimes conspire to do things wrong, especially communist dictatorships. And then we have, and this is where Rand Paul gets really credit for having this bone in his mouth and just not in his teeth and not letting go. He was funding the Wuhan lab. Now, there's a technical dispute, whether it was gainer of function research or not under the technical government definition. But we know it was. fund anything in China. It would be like funding nuclear power in the Soviet Union on the expectation. If something goes wrong, the Soviet government is going to be transparent about it and responsible about it. It was insane. And he's never fully taken responsibility for that and never ever will. The racism claim... Instead... Go on. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say the racism. Well, I was just going to say this, Charlie, and I know you guys cover this, Joe. I'll put this into the record, then you take it. This is just one. of the diary entries he was making while he was figuring out how to control the pesky republicans who don't like to be controlled by people and they had to he had to break them like by what kicking them out of the military if they won't take it making them all lose their jobs if they won't take it punishing kids, you can't go to college, young teenage men, who are the ones most susceptible to myocarditis, which can be and has been life-threatening and a killer in some instances for these young men. Was that breaking them? Was that breaking the spirit of these pesky Republicans? At the same time, he was pushing all of that, Charles. He was entering the following in his little diary. Big front page article about me in the Washington Post, very flattering. My national and international fame is explosive and really unimaginable. It is not hyperbole to say that today I am the most famous and talked about person in the country and one of the most recognizable persons in the world.

I know you guys, I've known you guys for a long time, you're not capable of that level of vanity. You are not capable. It wouldn't matter what was done to you or written about you or honors you had received. You're not capable of it. It's astonishing. I mean, he came across in that way, and this confirms what we knew. I was just going to say, Rich pointed out that it was always inexplicable, that it was somehow more racist to think that it came out of a lab than it came out of a wet market. But the discrediting of the public health authorities during COVID was perhaps second to the discrediting of the notion of racism, which was already on its last legs. is if you go through the history, the people who shout racist at everyone did so at various points in completely contradictory ways. If you remember the early days, the first couple of weeks of it, Nancy Pelosi and others in California were saying it was racist to be worried about the... COVID virus and that it would lead to hatred of Asians. And they went out in California into Chinatown and various parades and made a big spectacle of appearing in public to prevent this racism that was apparently being thrown, I assume, from the right. in fear of COVID. Then when they decided that COVID was important, it was racist to be skeptical of government actions during COVID because you were hurting the most vulnerable among us. And as we know from New York Times headlines, if you are hurting people who are the most vulnerable among us, they're always disproportionately whatever minorities are in vote at the moment. But then when the BLM protests broke out and they wanted people to go into the streets, they said, oh, it's fine. as you said earlier, Megan, it's fine now to go out. And in fact, it would be racist to stop people from congregating and breathing all over each other and spreading the COVID virus. So they had three or four different working definitions of racist. And it just goes to show you how accustomed they were to saying words, science, racist, or what you will, and having people fall into line. And when they didn't, you get the reaction you saw from Anthony Fauci, who's complaining about Republicans being unwilling to do what he wanted. It really was the most bizarre time. It's sometimes because I don't want to remember. I forget that all of this happens. And then you watch the clips and you're astonished by the crazy couple of years we had. And Megan, you talked about the anger. And it's because it's so personal for so many people and some of these policies were inhumane. My worst memory of the pandemic. My mom was in an assisted living facility. I had Alzheimer's. Very frail, very old. So, you know, you're on tent trucks the whole time. So I get that call. Her oxygen levels are depleted. We're sending her to the hospital. I was like, okay, that's it. I'll never see her again. That's it. So I rushed to this place about 15 minutes away, drive. There's an ambulance out front. Like, thank God, I made it in time. As soon as I park and walk to the front, the ambulance pulls around the back because it's leaving.

And I know she's in there. So I stand in front of the ambulance when it comes back to the front where I am. I just, hey, hey, stop. My mom's in the back. I think my mom's in back. Can you just open it up so I can see her? No, no. Like, be a human being just to open. This could be the last time I see it. Open the back. No, can't do it and drives off. So that, you know, I sat weeping on the curve. It was terrible. And I thought that that's it. Now, I was very lucky because for some reason the virus just didn't really affect her. She's back home in the place, you know. Two days later, she died about a year later, I'm holding her hand. But that makes all the difference in the world. So that's a relatively happy ending for me. But for many, many people, there wasn't a happy ending. And it was a version of that guy in the ambulance who's following the procedures, health and safety mate and all the rest of it, driving off with their loved one. Oh, my God, Rich, that's a horrifying story. And yes, there are so many Americans who have similar, you know, I mean, Janice Dean, who lost. Both of her in-laws, Sean Newman, is her husband, both killed, I think, by Chris Andrew Cuomo. I'm not Chris Andrew Cuomo. Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, who was warned by the nurses in the nursing homes. Don't do this when he mandated that they take COVID-positive patients and not test. They said, don't do this. This actually is the most vulnerable population. You do not want to mandate this. You will get elderly vulnerable New Yorkers killed. And he overruled them. Now he wants to revisit it like, oh, well, we were all confused. It was a difficult time. It was a tough virus. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The nurses knew. You overruled them. Her in-laws are dead because of you. There's millions of Americans with that same story. And that's why there are images like this one, which we're going to put on the board of the staffs inside hospitals here. It's the nursing staff holding up signs that read, he is at peace. We are so sorry as... lovers, husbands, wives had to say goodbye to their spouses of 70 years through plexiglass or actual glass because of Anthony Fauci, because of his lies, his influence, his vanglorious nature, and his unwillingness to wrestle with the truth, even if it hurt him. Rich and Charlie, stay with us. Don't go away. We'll be right back. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line. Handshake, commission, done. Then you may not hear from them again until it's time for renewal. But your business runs all year, and so do the gaps and the risk, which is why I want to tell you about Super Sure. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, CFO, or HR manager, it can be too complex to just buy a policy online. Super Sure is the super agency built for you. licensed in every state for your business insurance and employee benefits. With year-round support for you and your team. At super sure.com, you can access tools like fine print facts, which translates your current policy into plain English, so you see what's covered and what's not. Plus a business value calculator so you can estimate what your business is worth and know what actually needs protecting. Go to super sure.com slash Megan, one super agency, one powerful platform, all your policies in one place. Go to supershure.com slash Megan, paid for by SuperSure insurance agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Need a lesson in savings? Who doesn't? That's where Burlington comes in for back-to-school style. Because those school lists get long, but your receipts shouldn't. Find backpacks and sneakers to sweatshirts and jeans. Burlington has them all from the brands your kids keep begging for.

Why choose just a few looks? With our prices, just get them all. Burlington. Deals? Brands? Wow. I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP1s, plus diet and exercise. On Roe, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA-approved GLP-1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to row.com slash weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid row partner. 20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1% in placebo arm. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row. I want to tell you a little bit more about our MK members only section that we are launching this week on YouTube. You can sign up right now. and become one of the first members ever by clicking join right next to the subscribe button at YouTube.com slash Megyn Kelly. There we're going to have exclusive content for you, Q&As with yours truly behind the scenes. You'll get to meet some of our producers and more. And beginning tomorrow, we will release the first episode of our MK Tour documentary, giving you the untold story of what happened behind the scenes. on our tour last year. This is, again, this is not just about, oh, we went on tour. We met a lot of great people, which we did, and that is in there. But there was a lot happening within the conservative movement at the time we did this tour. And we had all of the players right at the heart of it on camera, getting really candid with us about themselves, their relationships, their thoughts on the country and where this was going. And I'm there, too, predicting and opining in ways that, I mean. We'll see whether any of them turned out to be true. You tune in and find out for yourself. But it's not just about the tour. It's also about my life before and after the tour in some ways. And we are going to talk about a situation I've never talked about before. Something happened. last year right after Charlie died. You may remember that he and I were supposed to go on tour together because he was on tour. Of course, that stop at UVU was his first tour stop. We had actually been in discussions with his team about me possibly joining him at that stop. I mean, it was just so eerie. But ultimately we settled on my going to, I think, the third stop on his tour, which was Virginia Tech. And we were set and booked to do that on the day he was killed. We were shocked to learn Turning Point was going to go through with the tour and also happy. But it was full of tension for those of us who did it. Michael Knowles did one at Minnesota, Glenn Beck did, I did, Tucker Carlson did, and so on. Of course, because the whole environment changed after Charlie was murdered.

Everyone had to give thought to, do I appear in a public place? What if I've received death threats? Do I need to take them much more serious now? Because one's been acted on, you know, I mean, just the whole time was very fraught. And we had just announced, of course, that I was going to be doing this tour. And there was the question of whether we should. So... Our great producer, Jake Whitman, who does a beautiful job on these documentaries, I mean, he's the one who did the Megan, with love, Megan parody and the blonde origin parody. He's very talented, and he and we have been working on these four episodes for the better part of a year now. I really think you're going to find this very substantive and hopefully enriching and telling about... the show, the guests who come on it, including my two guests today, and some of the other faces and names that you've come to know and love or hate, depending on your opinion, over the years. But here's a preview in this soundbite of that threat situation. I was just telling you about that I have never spoken of publicly before. Protesters gathered outside of the venue.

I got into the car to go to the plane, and Abby texted me saying, stand down. Like, hold on before you come. And I was like, what happened? There was a threat that had been facts that was really nasty, and it was very specific, which is scary, especially 10 days after a child's assassination. I said, send it to me. And she said, MK, I don't think you should read it. You know, it's being handled. And I said something I've never said to Abby before. Don't make me ask twice. So I forwarded it along and we hung up the phone. I start seeing a little bit of it and I'm like, holy shit. It was faxed. Virginia Tech were due to leave in 45 minutes. This is serious. They know details. It's pretty descriptive. They kind of know the location. And it was kind of the same threat that killed Charlie. Of course, I've been very outspoken on this. So you do have to worry when we had the first indication that the killer was motivated by something related to Charlie's stance on the trans issue. The next day, I opened my show by saying, by the way. It'll be many of us on the right who will not be silenced and who will make it our mission now to continue saying all the things that you thought you silenced with that bullet. And guess what? You can't take us all out. We have to keep saying the truth. She called me back and said, I'm going. This isn't great, but this sounds like somebody who's trying to shut down the event. And the answer's no, we're going. Miss Megyn Kelly. And look, the first couple of minutes I was on stage, I did feel exposed.

So much of you, so many of you were there with us in our various tour stops. And we so appreciated being able to meet you and Gladhand and actually put faces with, you know, my idea of who's watching the show. And in some cases, names and backstories. And anyway, we would love to reconnect with you. So it's MK members only. You can sign up now. You just click join at the Megyn Kelly. YouTube channel where hopefully you're already a subscriber. And we're back now with Rich and Charlie from National Review, both of whom came with us on the tour and did a great job. And honestly, it was an act of courage for you guys to come too because it was a fraught time. You know, I think much closer to Charlie's death, everyone had to worry a bit about, is it safe? Is this a new normal now? You know, is our pundits now going to be routinely shot at or attacked or killed for having, the wrong opinions. And it's also been like a fallacy since then, Rich, that it's both sides. You know, both sides have to worry about it. It's like, oh, come on. You know, yes, you could find an instance in history where, and even the past 10 years, where Democrats been on the receiving end of the threat or killed. But the vast majority of the shooters who are out there are people who are motivated by these left-wing causes. We've seen that time and time again, whether it's a trans person. et cetera, or the people who murdered Luigi and Charlie as accused. And so it's just, you know, it's been a lot. I think the conservative movement's gone through a lot in the past 12 months in particular. Yeah, you said we'll find out whether some of your predictions came true that when we see the documentary. One of mine that thankfully didn't, I remember being on with you in that horrible day. And one prediction I made is this is going to change everything. It's just going to have less debate, less public appearances, and there's more security. Yes, but people are still out there. And I think that's heartening and a very good thing. And your reaction to that threat was exactly the right one. This is meant to shut us down. And no, we're not going to be silenced. There's no way to shut us up. So I think that's fantastic. But the left has a deep ideological affiliation with revolutionary violence, or this part of it does, going back to the French Revolution. And it shows up in polling. It shows up in statements. They don't want to admit it. won't admit it but it's it's it's really built in and it a deep way into their DNA It's such a strange contradiction, if you think about it, Charlie, that you've got this group of people who will gun down, not group of people, but from whom one or two emerge here and there every year, who will gun down children in a church of a Catholic school, who will gun down the United Health Care CEO, and then be celebrated by their fellow leftists who will... allegedly kill Charlie and then be celebrated by their fellow leftists and yet be so aligned with and crippled by safetyism in their day-to-day lives. You know, I've got 50,000 disorders and I can't go to work and I can't go to school and I can't handle anything and you can't give me that DWI certificate because I have generational trauma dating back five generations to somebody I've never met. You know, like, this is the same group of people.

Well, it does sound odd, but I think at root is a difference in philosophy that does stem back to the French Revolution, which is right. You either, if you're a revolutionary, believe that everything needs to go or that everything needs to be restored. Those do seem to be the two models. And the American Revolution was a little bit. more complicated than everything needs to be restored. But it was a grateful revolution in that the founders were very much enamored with what they considered to be their birthright and various people within British history. And the French revolutionaries weren't. They hated the king. They hated the social structures in France. And they even hated things like the clock and the calendar, which they... tried to change because they thought they were irrational. Now, again, oversimplification. And of course, most people who disagree with me politically don't want to hurt anyone. But the sort of Luigi Mangione, you mentioned him, approach is a French revolutionary approach. He believed that the healthcare system was... immoral, that it hurt people and that it was less of a crime to kill and maim and tear it down. then it would be to preserve it and perhaps change it more modestly. So yeah, they are obsessed with safetyism. But if things get in the way of safetyism, their first instinct of the sort of person who's going to behave like that is to kill those who are a threat to safetyism, which does sound a bit odd, but it does make sense once you get into their minds. Once again, Of course, most people aren't like this. Unfortunately, the handful of people who are do at present seem to belong to the same movement. Well, and speaking of the French Revolution, one of the catalysts was the rules for thee but not for me type attitude. And that... relates to our first segment as well, the COVID thing. Because one of the things we learn, I want to move on to other subject, but I do have to say this about the COVID thing. One of the things that's so galling about the whole thing is you see how chummy Anthony Fauci was with the media. You know, they were all texting him. And you guys... and I are in the media, and it's not unusual to text somebody who's been on your show or who's giving you an interview for your article and say, great job, thanks a lot, and have some sort of, you know, chummy remark. That is not unusual. That's actually par for the course of maintaining relationships. But these are, these are over and above. And the repeated dinners with Jake Tapper and his wife, while he was the most controversial man in America, not Jake Anthony Fauci, like, you're playing with fire when you're doing that as Jake Tapper.

And you're sending him chummy remarks about how Laura Ingram shouldn't have gone to Dartmouth and you're not proud of her. Like what? And at the same time, we now know that he was having dinner with Jake Tapper and his wife, Anthony Fauci. He had canceled Thanksgiving, Rich. Sacrifice Thanksgiving. Somebody just married the timing. It was 10 days after he had told us all not to have Thanksgiving with our family and friends that he went over to Jake Tapper's house. and had dinner with him. Like, the rules for thee, but not for me. And by the way, Jake Tapper has not yet spoken to this and really should. Yeah, there's also a great entry where I think the French embassy, everyone was honoring Anthony Fauci. I think the French embassy wanted to do it, and there's a diary entry there. I think I'm going to maybe cancel on this one because I don't want to go through what I did last night because he was at some other event, big gala being honored, and it worried that somehow he'd gotten the virus, which I guess would be a bad look for him. But he was living the life, right? And he was enjoying it. And what you're saying earlier about Charlie and I wouldn't be affected by international fame? I don't know. Maybe we would. You can try us, right? We could run an experiment. You would never write a tweet like that. You are not a tweet, but you would never. You're the Rich Lowry Diary. Would never read that way. I know this. I'll never write a diary entry. But it's natural to have your head turned a little bit. But his head was turned fully around like an owl or something. You know, like an exorcist. Yeah, like Julia John Roberts sent me flowers today. And then the next line is Scott Atlas still causing trouble with this herd immunity theory. I mean, if you want to get Anthony Fauci in two sentences, I think that would be it. Atlas ended up being right. And what do you think? saying during the past yeah the other part of this but into the adulation yeah the other part of this rich is it says something about the sort of people that antony fauchy hangs around with because of course it's human to to take newfound fame and perhaps become inflated by it. But the thing is, if I started doing that, my wife would laugh at me. Yes, yes. My friends would, you would laugh at me rich. I mean, you would just laugh. I'm just surrounded by people who would think that it was ridiculous and would immediately start making cutting comments and bring me right back down to earth. So the fact that he wasn't surrounded by people who sort of said, give me a break, mate, is actually telling in and of itself. Yeah, and apparently just I think it's very funny because I've been a lifelong journal keeper. And if you were ever to get your hands in my journals, you would see self-flagellation page after page after like imposter syndrome and all of that. There isn't a page in there that's like, I have become incredibly famous and people know me world. Never, never. It's like, oh my God, everything's going to collapse tomorrow. I'm sure it will. Like I can't believe I'm here. I'm sure somebody else deserves this more than I do. Like whatever, not that that's great either, but I'm just saying.

Most people are not this excited about. basking in their own perceived glory. They have some modicum of humility thanks to their parents or God or their understanding of their actual place in humanity that they would never engage in such an exercise. The fact that he did tells us so much about him. Yeah, a little bit of guilt. You know, I went to the French embassy. It's great. But there's this worldwide pandemic killing millions. And this is unfair. Why am I having a good time when so many people are suffering? None of that. Nothing. And that's the thing. All right, but wait, but let me turn it to the media because we know Anthony Fauci's bad. But he was enabled by the slobbering love affair as Bernie, uh, why am I not, why are we forgetting Bernie's last name? Bernard Goldberg. Uh, his, his book called it, the, the slobbering love affair that the left has with their, their heroes. And he's definitely at the top of the list. Um, Because we've resurfaced some of these clips. And we've been talking about Scott Atlas. He was in the crosshairs of none other than Chris Andrew Cuomo, who, let's face it, was the face of the CNN coverage on COVID and was wrong at every turn from those terrible interviews he did with his brother Andrew to his fake emergence from the basement, which was acting. Remember when he was like, suddenly cured from COVID and could see the world again. Meanwhile, he'd been in the New York Post as having been out repeatedly. And to the biggest sin, which was the actual disinformation he was putting out on the airwaves night after night. And he went off on Scott Atlas, who objected when Michigan had proposed, I mean, shutting everything down. No more gatherings at all, even outside of any size. It was truly draconian. And he had said, resist. And this is just one example of what was going on on cable news, Fox accepted at this time. Watch, this is Andrew Cuomo back then. Dr. Atlas, okay, a guy with no pandemic experience. He literally would know more if he stayed at a holiday and express last night. He's saying, hey, you in Michigan, these measures to help try to control the spread, fight back. Are you kidding me? Shame on you. What kind of doctor would tell people to rise up and resist the only kind of prophylaxis that can help them? What the hell is a matter with this person? But someday, you're going to have to deal with real questions. And either you're going to come on a show or you're going to do it, but you know what? We may go back to old school. And maybe the questions will come find you. Maybe when you're living your life, nice and easy, because you don't have the concerns that these same people that you're telling to rise up that they have. Maybe the questions will come and find you, because you have to answer for that kind of guidance, let alone as a doctor, do no harm, invite grandma. This could be her last Thanksgiving. Yeah, if you invite her to a place where she can get sick and die.

All right, tough guy. And here, let me just tell you. So the Michigan restrictions that Atlas was saying rise up against, this was courtesy of Governor Gretchen Whitmer, some of the strictest state home orders in the nation. Limit the number of customers in essential stores to four for every 1,000 feet. Prohibiting employers from making employees come to work unless they're necessary. Suggesting people limit the number of household members who are running errands, banning all public and private gatherings outside homes. All public and private gatherings, as I was saying. No more private gatherings, period. A major anti-lockdown protest was held around Lansing, around with many protesting her orders, and included people in their cars and people on foot. The streets were jammed, and she was very angry that people were questioning her words. She was one of the worst lockdown governors in the country, and Scott Atlas was one of the smartest. And while Trump, we featured a video there, or Andrew Cuomo did, of Atlas at the lectern. at the White House because Trump eventually caught on to Scott Atlas and started realizing some of these measures were just too draconian. And the left didn't like it. Andrew Cuomo didn't like it. And guess what, Rich? The left still doesn't like it. They're still out there ripping these Republican senators today, defending Anthony Fauci, holding water for him, because it's not just his neck on the line. It's theirs too. Yeah. So a lot of journalists who pride themselves on being objective. totally through objectivity out the window and we're scolding us, right? scolding people for having the wrong views about this. And this is not retrospective all that, right? We were saying this at the time, and there's a very important public leader who figured it out at the time. Ron DeSantis, within two or three months, Ron DeSantis had an approach that was based as Scott Atlas was advocating, protect the people who really need protecting, people with preexisting conditions, people who are elderly. Let's try to ring fence those people as much as possible and otherwise let life go on. And that was an evidence-based approach. But there was this hysteria that was stoked by a media. It's supposed to be skeptical, right? And question authority, but they were all in on this guy, this authority, Anthony Fauci. Charlie, moments ago, this just on X hit Harvey Levin of TMZ with a different reaction to what we saw today. Take a listen. Watching Anthony Fauci before a congressional hearing, taking the Fifth Amendment, is just one of the most heartbreaking things I have seen in government in my lifetime. And this is something we need to reckon with.

I'm going to say up front. I have problems the way the CDC handled COVID. And now we are at a point where members of Congress, and yes, you Rand Paul, are on a witch hunt. And the best I can say for Rand Paul is that he's being really honest. I mean, he has said now over a period of years, he wants Anthony Fauci in a jail cell. That's the point of this hearing. That's why they're doing this. Watching Rand Paul order security to throw Anthony Fauci's lawyer out of that hearing was unbelievable to me. We are in a dark period of America. So he's upset, but not with Anthony Fauci, with Rand Paul. I mean, he's an idiot. I'm not disparaging. You've shown the clip, but I mean, okay. So there's a guy who works at what TMZ? I mean, that is a reaction that you would expect from an uninformed person who had absorbed most of his political opinions from the narrow culture around him and had never considered anything deeply who had a vague conception that Republicans were bad, libertarians especially so. who thinks that there's something sacred about people who invoke the Fifth Amendment. It's constitutional right. It's fine. I mean, this is the sort of level of analysis that you would expect from your average wine mom. I mean, it's... But I'm surprised because Harvey Levin is not an idiot. He's actually smart. He's a lawyer. He knows better. I think these are his politics affecting. But that's the same thing, Megan. I mean, if you allow your politics to affect your judgment in that way, then you're a fool. I mean, what's the distinction, right? That is part of judgment. I think there's going to be a lot, a lot of, you know, just people manning the partisan ramparts on this hearing today. But I think the diaries have put more of a dent in Anthony Fauci's reputation among some people. expect to be supporters. The New York Times ran a really snarky piece about his diaries. The Atlantic ran a piece that, you know, mostly favorable to Anthony Fauci, but not entirely favorable to Anthony Fauci. So I think Scott Gottlieb, you know, who's not a bomb thrower, was on CNBC. I think I heard it on your on your show or maybe the morning update. You did. Yeah. On AM update. I'm embarrassed by these. I'm disappointed by these. So I do think the release of the diaries has dented his reputation with some people, otherwise much more favorable or inclined to be favorable than we are. All right. Now, I want to move on, but I should show that, I should show the moment I've been promising it for an hour that when Rand Paul threw out Anthony Fauci's lawyer, who I have to say, deserved it. Like, it's not your living room. It's.

the U.S. Senate. You have to comport with the rules of the U.S. Senate, which were explained to you repeatedly, counsel. He thought he could do it his way, and he learned the hard way. This is one area in which the lawyers, at least the ones who aren't U.S. senators, are not in charge. Here it is. But the attorneys are not recognized. In fact, the attorney was told not to sit at the table, and he's not obeying that recommendation. There's a row behind you, sir. That's where you were told to sit, and you're not. And now you're disrupting the proceedings. And so, look, this is the way Anthony Fauci wants to be remembered. For a lawyer not listening to the rules, that's the way you want to be remembered, and that's where you're going to do. You are not recognized, sir. Security, please remove in from the room. Let the record state that Dr. Anthony Fauci will still have the advice of the other half a dozen attorneys that you brought along today. I enjoy that. I just did. It's like I don't like it when people don't follow the rules. Go ahead, Charles. Well, and this is actually a tactic that is increasingly used on the left and that it makes me crazy. There's a guy in Tennessee. He's a lawmaker in the state house. I think his name might be Justin Pearson. But he constantly stages these performances and the most recent one. Yeah. Yeah, the most recent one was he went into a Senate hearing and started shouting. Now, he wasn't allowed to be in the Senate because he's in the House. It's a different chamber of the legislature. And so he got kicked out of the Senate because as a member of the House, he went into a closed hearing of the Senate and started shouting about politics. And of course, the... dumb people who are, this is aimed at, said, this is outrageous. You kicked a lawmaker out for speaking. And then, of course, he pretended, he published a photograph of himself being kicked out standing in front of the sergeant at arms and said, this is just like 1960s Tennessee. No, there are rules in the Senate. And it's just amazing, Megan, to watch this stuff from the same people who go on and on about January 6th. You know, my views on that. I think it was appalling. I'm in no way defending it. But either we have rules or we don't. Either it's imperative that the Senate is uninterrupt. or it's not like you can't have this one way so I course you kicked the lawyer out the Senate didn't invite him up there Is your dog a picky eater? It's stressful. Mine's not. He'll eat a printer cartridge. I mean, literally anything. But, you know, every dog is different. You try different brands. You mix in toppers. But those processed brown pellets just sit there. I have a friend just down the road. She's got a sweet new dog. He won't eat. She's worried about him. He's not hungry. Like, why not? We don't know. Maybe your dog simply knows the difference between junk and real food. Sundays for dogs is different.

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Have we seen the Vanity Fair article from Gavin Newsom's ex-lover? Have we read this piece, gentlemen, because it is, I don't, this is how long, look how long this thing is. This woman is very much in love with every memory she has of her interludes with Gavin Newsom. And I don't know whether you've read it. But. Ruby Rippy wants us to know all about the trists she had with the then mayor of San Francisco, governor, or now governor of California, Gavin Newsom. And I want to ask you guys about it. And I want to ask you whether you think this is going to help him or hurt him. Because it happened 25 years ago. It's not like it just happened. He was married. at the time to Kimberly Guilfoyle, but they were separated and getting a divorce. So I don't think many people would consider that cheating on his part. And she was, she was married, however, you guys. And that's where the rub is, because not only was he cheating. like with her on her husband, but her husband worked for Gavin Newsom. And this went on for, I think, 10 months. So it was a direct betrayal by Gavin Newsom of somebody who had been very loyal to him and worked hard for him and by all reports really admired him. And it was a specific... betrayal, obviously, of the wife against her husband and her young two-year-old son. And now she's decided, just as he possibly runs for president, as has Vanity Fair, to do a, what, 30-page article, unquote, how I blew up, then rebuilt my life, complete with stories about how, let's see. I'll find it. Hold on. It's all about how she ripped his shirt off and there were no more buttons left on the shirt. And then he texted her, thank God they sold T-shirts in the hotel, Rich. So is this a devastating expose or is this? You always do this. Now I'm really not going to read it. You totally can just me. The whole thing is sad. It's tawdry. Also, don't get, you know, Olivia Nuzi. Is that her name with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.? This thing where you write these expose articles not mentioning the name of the person that you're describing. Yeah. And a fair with in great detail. I don't get that. Look, I think it was a very messy period from Gavin Newsom's life. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more.

where that came from, but we're just so beyond this kind of thing being disqualifying or even a problem, really, in national politics. And it was a long time ago. You know, if this is two years ago... be a problem. If there's anything as we saw with Graham Platner involving, you know, physical conduct or intimidation or abuse, you know, that that can be a deal killer. But this kind of thing won't. He'll just say, you know, I had problems back then. I've grown and, you know, I've been happily married 20 years or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. She's not alleging non-consensual behavior, although if you read her allegations, she kind of is. She's not saying it was non-consensual, but she's saying that she was basically blacked out drunk to the point where she wet the bed in their first encounter. I mean, that's pretty far gone, Charlie. I'm not sure that's somebody any man should be sleeping with, but here's the headline from the Daily Mail. Former mistress says they first had sex after she wore white to friend's wedding and that she ripped every button off his shirt during passionate hotel encounter, Charlie. So who in their right mind goes through this then allows a whole bunch of time to elapse and then says... I'll tell the whole world I wet the bed. Who does that? I mean, wouldn't you say, well, that was a long time ago? My favorite thing about the story, I haven't read it. So I don't know if this is in the article, Reagan, you'll have to tell me, or whether she said it somewhere else. But I saw that she had said, That the best advice she got on how to deal with this came from Kamala Harris. Yeah. And I saw people who like Kamala Harris advancing this as if it turned Kamala Harris into some sort of stage. But I thought, well, of course, Kamala Harris would have the best advice about what to do when you're cheating. Because that's how Kamala Harris got to where she is. cheated with a whole bunch of people. I'm not saying she cheated on her spouse, but she was the person with whom they were cheating. So of course she gave great advice as to how to deal with cheating in California. It's the perfect Kamala Harris story. It's not an endorsement. And then she married somebody who had been cheating on his prior partner. So yeah, there is a long history of it. Here, I'm going to give you a couple of highlights, low lights, your choice. Ruby, Rippy Gibney. That's her name. She was...

Yes, okay. She's the one with whom he had an affair, 2007 when he's still mayor of San Francisco. Reading here from the Daily Mail write-up of the much longer Vanity Fair piece. She's now 51. She provided a timeline of how they came together. They attended a wedding on July 2nd, 2005, where Rippy donned a strapless white dress guys to a city hall staffer as nuptials, despite her mother's disapproval of her outfit choice. During the event, she and her now ex-husband and Gavin Newsom's former deputy chief of staff, Alex... Tork mingled with their colleagues as she downed champagne and wine while her dinner went untouched, she said. She soon wound up in a hallway with Gavin Newsom while waiting for the bathroom. And later in the night, they met again in a hot tub. The rest of the evening was described as a blur by Rippy, but she said all encounters were consensual. She recalled the Democrat massaging her feet inside a chauffeur town call. And the next thing she knew, she was waking up next to him in bed, having peed herself. Okay, just like every great romance. Where's her husband? That's how they start. I don't. With her husband, right? And he went home early. He went home. Smart man with their son. I love that she thinks those things are unconnected. She's like, it was really surprising. One minute, he's massaging my feet in a limo. Next minute, you'll never guess what happened. You're like, like, she just suddenly transformed. Shocking. Shocking. It led to me peeing myself in bed. At the time, Gavin Newsom was separated from Kimberly Guilfoyle. It details her struggle with alcoholism. She says, my phone lights up soon after. Where are you? But it never matters where I am because I always go to him. His penthouse in Russian Hill, a private backroom at a North Beach bar, the W Hotel in Los Angeles. We meet and we drink. There is sex, but it isn't the point. The point is proximity to power, to being chosen, to feeling newly visible, no longer muted by pregnancy, by new motherhood, by the strain of white knuckling, long stretches of sobriety. She soon rushed over to see him at the W. Hotel as she was on a girl's weekend. The next morning, she was greeted by tiny shirt buttons scattered like coins on the floor near the bed. Ripley quickly realized that the buttons did not belong to her that she had ripped Gavin Newsom's shirt in the heat of the moment the night before. I am overcome with the understanding that the consequence will not end with me. They may cost me the best thing that has ever happened to me. Alex. Oh, her husband, run, Alex, run. Goes on to say during another sexual encounter, Rippy said she watched her lover on all fours near the edge of the bed, scrubbing furiously at the carpet with a washcloth after she dropped a glass of red wine. From the king-sized bed, Rippy started to think there was no chance the stain would come out. But when he caught her gazing at him, Gavin Newsom snapped. You know,

We really can't do this anymore. You can't be doing this to Alex, she recalled him saying, you can't be doing this to Alex. How about you? Rippy divorced twerk in early 2007, they have a son and appear to have a good relationship. Gavin Newsom went on to remarry his second wife, Jennifer Siebel, in July 2008, which is a year later, they have three children, blah, blah. I am going to go on the record saying this is not going to hurt him at all. I think, sadly, if anything, it might actually help him. There might be like some women out there who find him hot who are kind of like, let me picture the buttons coming off and a passionate affair. And it was 25 years ago, so I don't have to feel guilty about enjoying this image. I'm like, I don't know, Rich. I think it could. It's either a neutral or a win for him. I think it could make him more alluring for certain. Yeah. Yes. The same women who think that they want to go to bed with the guys who are in prison, you know, because they want to be the one who could like tame him and not get strangled are the ones who would look at that and say like, okay, I could have been that woman with the buttons and the peeing herself and the wine. It's probably neutral. But the one thing that it does do is blunt any holier than thou approach. toward Trump. Now, I know Trump won't be running in 28, but Trump's not exactly a paragon of virtue. And there are some people who respond to this by pretending that they are. And if Gavin Newsom tries that, it won't work now. This probably doesn't matter, but it does take that arrow out of his quiver. Well, to get way ahead of us, you know, he'd likely be running if he's a nominee and if JD's the nominee, JD has the best odds of any Republican to be the nominee at the moment. He's running against a good family man, right? It just has a growing young family. But I can't, JD Vance having been such a Trump loyal, JD Vance can't bring this up either. So I'm going to go with Wash as well. Yeah. Okay, elsewhere, there is a news story percolating about a professor at Cambridge, Charlie, but you went to Oxford, right? I always forget. From Cambridge, I went to Oxford. Okay. Well, this was in your backyard. There is a plagiarism scandal brewing at Cambridge. And it seems pretty clear to me, but no one at Cambridge cares and no one on blue sky cares at all either. And that is for one one one one, as far as I can tell, the man being accused is black. and has been this much celebrated professor because he has allegedly this very compelling backstory. But it turns out the backstory to maybe utter bullshit. Okay. Here's, I'm just going to start with some of the defenses and that we can get into what the allegations are. But this is just a sampling from blue sky.

The right wing press is attacking Jason Ardei, Britain's only black autistic professor for plagiarism in his Ph.D. Then they go on to say solidarity. This is very common plagiarism is. It's just that nobody notices or complains if you're white. Another one. Disgusted with the press for presenting this non-story. If it has to be covered at all, it should be framed as discredited racist smears Black Cambridge professor in sustained campaign to undermine him. Jason Ardeh, another one writes, is the youngest black professor in Cambridge's history. Right-wing newspapers are trying to smear him with false accusations of plagiarism. Can't let them stand up to their hate and division, solidarity, vile, racist hit job, and so on nasty smear campaign of lies. But it turns out it's not just about his alleged... instances of plagiarism as outlined by the telegraph in great detail. And we can get to some of that because it goes on. It's also about the possibility that this guy lied about his entire life story. There is a question about whether he was nonverbal, as he claimed, until the age of 11. And then miraculously went on to start speaking, not just speaking, but like to the point where he could get hired as a professor at Cambridge within a shoe for a few short years. He became a Cambridge professor at age 37. The UK Telegraph says he was diagnosed with autism and was nonverbal till 11. He had only learned to read and write at age 18, but then obtained a degree in a doctorate before forging his career in teaching. He has now written a memoir, great and unfortunate things set to be published next month. And yet there are questions emerging about whether he deserved that Ph.D. or whether he plagiarized his way to it. They say that... Stand by. Less than a decade ago, he was given a devastating outlook. He would likely need to stay in an assisted living facility. He refused to make that a reality, writing that he would work at Oxford or Cambridge on the wall of his mom's bedroom, solidifying one of his life goals. He told the BBC that watching Nelson Mandela's prison release in 1990 and witnessing South Africa's 1995 Rugby World Cup win were among the most formative moments in his young life, vowing that if he didn't make it as a football player, he would save the world. He said he never had a mentor teach him to write for academia.

leading to a number of rejections, that is, until finally reaching his goal of teaching at Cambridge. In the face of adversity, he was hell-bent on changing the tides in his favor. He went on to earn two master's qualifications after receiving a degree in phys ed and education studies from the University of Surrey, later earned a PhD from Liverpool John Moore's University in 2016. And they say, okay, hold on, that this is from the telegraph. An analysis of his PhD thesis, however, identified more than 100 passages that are identical or nearly identical to a 2009 PhD thesis by Paula Zwozziak Myers, a Brunel University student. Professor Ardae's 401-page thesis titled An Exploration of Peer Monitoring Among Student Teachers, Sick, so there is a grammatical error in the name of his PhD. thesis, to inform reflective practice within the context of action research mentions this Ms. Myers 17 times, but he allegedly steals her work far more than 17. And they provide the examples which are identical. I mean, I'll just give you just a couple of... In his extract, he writes perceptive reflection on practice, links teaching to feelings. In Ms. Meyer's extract, perception reflection on practice, links teaching to feelings. And he writes, receptive reflection on practice, relates personal views to others' views. What did she write? Reception reflect on practice relates personal views to others' views. We could be here all day. Now, finally, today we get the addendum that not only did he make all these claims, But he also said he did all this, like whatever, got himself from non-speaking into a professorship at Cambridge, while he had both a brain tumor and then a stroke and ran 600 miles. 600 miles in, was it 30 days or 60 days? I mean, let's see. He said. in 2010 that he had run 30 marathons in 35 days, and that was 300 miles in three days, 600 miles in six days, which would have been 50 miles short of the world record for ultra-distance running. Now, Southampton Solent University, which awarded him an honorary degree in 2023, has quietly removed the references to running 300 miles and 600 miles from its website. And another university, which gave him an honorary doctorate, recently changed the reference to 600 miles and six days to 600 miles and 12 days. So brain tumor stroke, 600 miles and six days, allegedly, got the Ph.D. and gave his verbal defense of it right after he had the brain tumor and was having the stroke after being nonverbal forever and then somehow managing to chalk himself. I smell bullshit from an ocean away. But Charlie, you tell me because you're of this elite world and actually shared an original country with this guy. So what do you make of it? Well, I think somewhere George Santos is taking notes on this guy. Not Jewish, but Jewish as he defended himself. I mean, I feel that the best defense of this guy is that he's a plagiarist because I looked up the work.

in which the plagiarism supposedly took place. And I would not have wanted to have written it because it is unadulterated garbage. And I think that that is perhaps more important. I had the same view of Claudine Gay at Harvard. It's bad to plagiarize and she shouldn't have done it. But the really embarrassing thing about Claudine Gay was the work that she published under her own name, which was entirely worthless. And the same is true here. We're not talking here about somebody following in the footsteps of, say, Sir Isaac Newton, perhaps Cambridge's most famous alumnus who has been plagiarizing work. We're talking about somebody who is obsessed with race. who talks about whiteness and blackness as if they're serious concepts, who doesn't look at human beings as human beings, but as members of groups whose language is inscrutable. He was much preferable, I suppose, when he couldn't speak. So this is more than a story about plagiarism, I think. This is a story about fraud. Now, of course, having been to Oxford, I should at this point make lots of jokes about Cambridge. as is R1. But this is far beyond Cambridge. This is a problem in academia in general at the moment, and he exemplifies it. So. Perhaps he's the latest person to be caught. But there is, unfortunately, within the academic sphere, much less interest in the truth than there should be, and much less interest in useful inquiry than there should be. And a great celebration of people's immutable characteristics and their ability to put out a whole bunch of guff. And this is blown up because he is all three at once. He's a plagiarist. He's a fraud and his work is useless. And the sooner that we recognize that, the better our universities will be. Yes, his work was found to be identical to the other professor in more than 100 passages. He only cited her 17 times. And what does Cambridge say about this whole thing, Rich? Well, Professor Bakar Vira, who serves as the pro vice chancellor of education at the university, described our day as an exceptional scholar. Quote, he will contribute significantly to Cambridge's research in this area. and to addressing the underrepresentation of people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, especially those from black, Asian, and other minority ethnic communities. His experiences highlight the barriers faced by many underrepresented groups.

He's basically saying he's black. So he's going nowhere. He's going to bring some sort of diversity to Cambridge. And we don't care how many people he plagiarized or how many lies he's told us possibly about. 600 miles and six days, a brain tumor, and a stroke while defending his PhD after being autistic and nonverbal and having no formal tutelage. It's crazy. So maybe the autistic thing is not as crazy as it sounds. I remember Thomas Sol year ago wrote a book about late talkers, and sometimes they can be incredibly talented. But the rest of this story, you'd add it up that way. It's obviously too good to check, but there shouldn't, you know, there's no black plagiarism or white plagiarism or women's plagiarism or men's. There's just plagiarism, right? He either did it or not, and it shouldn't be acceptable, acceptable. But this is kind of the DEI mindset in a nutshell, right, the molten core of it, that the value of this guy is not his scholarship, is not as thought, certainly not his originality. It's his characteristics or supposed characteristics. And that's just not how any of this is supposed to work. And it's a deep corruption of academia. And it's long ago jumped the ivory walls of academia as infected all of our national life here in the United States and other Western advanced countries. So if he did it, he should be nailed to the wall. And no one should hear about him again. If it says some innocent explanation or if it's not truly plagiarism, fine. But the idea that this guy should be a member of a particular... protected class because of these his characteristics is just poison it oh yeah well now he's playing the victim card too because this first came out in 2003 when both cambridge and this john moors were alerted to this problem, this Dave Harris, Professor Emeritus at Plymouth Margin University, alerted Cambridge and Liverpool's John Moore's University to his concerns about plagiarism by this guy. This is back in 2023. He said, in my opinion, important sections of the work of this professor, Jason Ardei, both his PhD thesis and some subsequent published articles solo and jointly written display indications of serious plagiarism. He notified them both, and he also emailed Ardei. to his credit about the discrepancies in his published work and how did our day respond please do not email me again should you have time to spare i invite you to direct your resources elsewhere anything further from you will be considered bullying and harassment bullying and harassment there's this one guy named Nathan Koffness, who's a free speech advocate, who was sacked by Emanuel, a Cambridge college last year after substack posts. And this is how they're dismissing this guy's allegations, because he was one of the ones who first brought this up. They're saying, oh, he's racist. He's a crackpot biologist and racist because he said even Walt Disney would raise an eyebrow at this story. Well, that's because there were...

accusations against him for writing this allegedly racist article, but the complaints against him were later dismissed. So that was the guy. And everybody who comes after him gets the same treatment. Oh, well, Rich, Charlie, it's always interesting. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us, yeah. All right. Back tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with GoToBank. Now... Did you say $300? Yes. Now, back to our breathing. So if I overspend my balance, GoToBank has my back up to $300. Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more Zen with over $300 in overdraft protection. Tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt-in required for overdraft protection. Fees terms and conditions apply. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, from CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, Odu replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-for-free at O-D-O-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-com.