Hour 2: Flock

The Mike Broomhead show, KTAR News, 923, and the KTAR News app. In the last few weeks, we've had more and more stories about the flock cameras in our valley. We know that the Pinal County Sheriff has said he is not going to renew his contract. He came on to clarify that it was software issues that had to do with the advent of AI and old technology that they may be using in Pinald County. The Chandler Police Department suspending theirs because they believe misuse by an officer. Apache Junction, same thing, an officer. resigned after an investigation showed he misused the flock technology. So to talk about what this technology really is, is the public affairs director for the flock camera company, Trevor Chandler. Trevor, I really appreciate this conversation. Absolutely, happy to be here, sir. So let's talk and tell us what the technology is. What do people need to know? What do these flock cameras? What do they, what data do they collect and store? Yeah, and I actually find myself talking about what they aren't more than what they are because of a lot of misinformation is out there. These cameras are about vehicles. It's about license plates and certain vehicle characteristics. There is no facial recognition. There's no personal records connected like a DMV record. It is about helping police have a tangible piece of evidence to help solve crime. So again, this isn't about people tracking courts of appell that these do not track. uh a person uh these are about providing actionable objective evidence to to solve crime like missing persons and that's why flock was actually used to solve over 10 000 missing people last year so that that's what this is so when it where is the where is the data stored how long is it stored who has access to it Yep. So all data is fully owned by each agency. Flock does not own the data. We collected and store it for the cities. It's stored on the cloud and a very secure server. Flock has never been hacked. And only your agency is able to access it. And only they get to choose who they share with if they want to share it all. A lot of cities choose to share in their region because of organized retail crime, missing persons, so they can share locally, regionally, statewide, however, whatever aligns with their city and values. So let me clear something up because I don't know the answer to this question. Do you just capture the license plate and the characteristics of the vehicle and then it's up to the agency to go in then and use that license plate to identify the owner or does the technology identify the registered owner of the vehicle as well? No, that's up to the law enforcement. So they have some separate systems that they can utilize. Like, you know, they have access to certain statewide registries that are separate from flock. But the flock system only identifies, the flock license plate reader system only identifies the license gets the best read of the license plate and the best read typically of the rear of a vehicle. That's all it does. You know, a lot of people have these visions of minority report and all these other things. This is a point in time picture of the rear of a vehicle to get the best image of a license plate to provide objective evidence to solve a crime. Yeah, because the concern with AI is, and people jump into your conclusions, which I'm glad you're clearing up, is that they can read a license plate. The technology makes it so that you can then take the license plate. You can find out who the registered owner is and then very easily find out information about that registered owner. And I think that's been the concern for people.

Yeah, and I can say it's predominantly the case, like these cameras, and especially in areas that are only using license plate readers, it does not have the capability to do that. There's many systems that your police have in addition to license plate readers where they can separately go and look that up. But for these license plate readers, it's getting the image of the car. So if you have a hit and run, where if your kid is hit on a bike and they get the license plate. They're able to search for that plate, see if it was in the area and potentially identify a suspect in that. Yeah, anecdotally, I heard the other day when we were talking about this, I heard from a West Valley City Council member here in Arizona that said that they love it in their town. The police utilize it. They think it's a great tool. They think it's really helped solve a lot of crimes. And they swear by the technology. So as much as there are some concerns about misuse in other places, which I know you can't control, there are other agencies that are saying it's such a valuable tool that it's helping them find people. Yeah, I can't tell you the number of times that she for a rank and file officer has said this has been the most important advancement. sense, fingerprints, or DNA. And let's be clear, misuse is a real concern. And you're correct in that it requires positive training and auditing. But Flock is actually going to step beyond that. We're the only public safety technology company that actually provides audit assistance. So what this means is, you know, typically for an audit, when you're looking to see if it's being used correctly, you have to do a spot check or it's thousands of pages that you have to look through to try to identify misuse. Our technology actually flags a typical search behavior. Doesn't mean anything's necessarily wrong, but it's saying, hey, if you're going to audit your system and you're looking for some weird searches, here's where you should start. Maybe someone searched the same plate 20 times a day. Could be for a valid reason. Again, missing kid, any number of things. But we actually provide for free, in addition to a transparency portal, audit assistance that actually provides the low-hanging fruit for agencies to easily... quickly and effectively identify misuse and so they can hold those folks accountable. Is the data only stored for a limited amount of time or is it is it stored forever? Nope, so limited amount of time. By default, currently, flock's default is 30 days, but any city, any municipality can change that. They can make it shorter. Some actually want it longer because the longer you do retain it. You have the potential to solve more crimes. You know, sometimes sexual assaults don't get reported for weeks after they actually happen. But it is hard deleted, irretrievable by either the agency or flock after that retention period, which is typically 30 days.

unless it's downloaded for evidence here, evidence purposes. But no, it is not a massive database. Flock does not sell data. That's another myth that's out there. Our business is not, we are not a social media company. We're not in the business of selling data. All of this is hard deleted after that retention date passes. The other concern that has happened on a number of occasions been kind of reported is mistakes, that misidentifications of vehicles that people in other parts of the country having their vehicle identified in places they say they've never been and they've had to go back and prove that it wasn't them. How do you address those issues? Yeah, it's really important to note that the flock camera and license plate readers are a tool for your police department. They do not replace the judgment and training of your law enforcement. We encourage every single police department to have a policy that requires before action is taken on a license plate reader hit, that there's also a visual confirmation there. We're incredibly proud of the 99% accuracy that our cameras have. There's always an outlier here or there that could. result in, you know, a three being mistaken for an E or a new license plate. That takes a while for the system to learn. But it's, we, we definitely encourage every agency to have a policy that calls for a visual confirmation by the officer of that license plate confirming that that is the case before taking action on it. Do you have a requirement of agencies that you work with with a certain amount of training or is it available to them and you just give them recommendations for training? We provide a whole suite of training. We call it Flok Academy on how to use every aspect of the tool, from the auditing to the search, everything. Every city and state has their own training requirements, but we provide fully free of charge a certification course on every aspect of the system. And certain cities mandate that folks take that training. Some have their own individual training for their department. But we make that fully available and free to be certified for every department that we work with. I know you've had this conversation many, many times, and I'm sure you've answered all of my questions a hundred times each. How often do you run into the pushback where they're just not going to be convinced that people just believe this is an invasion of privacy? And it's only going to get worse and the potential for damages there. How much do you run into that? And how much after a conversation do most people kind of shrug their shoulders and say, okay, I get it. This is actually a good thing. Well, I think a lot of people have those concerns when they don't fully understand what the system is. Again, I have a team. We attend well over 1,000 city councils every year answering these questions directly, addressing this information. And it's not so much the concerns about the technology as it is, is what they think it is. And so when we explain what license plate readers do and what they don't do, then we get a lot more like, oh, yeah, that does make sense. That does make sense under the Fourth Amendment. You know, constitutionality, courts across the country have unanimously ruled in favor of license plate reader cameras as fully constitutional under the Fourth Amendment. But the conversations around public safety and privacy are valid. They're serious and they're different for every community. And the great thing about the tool is that it can be customized according to every...

community's values. So if you want a shorter retention, if you want to share, if you don't want to share, these are all conversations that are important for every city to have. And we engage directly in those conversations to help navigate that. My last question is a two-part question. How many cameras are there nationwide or if you can narrow it down to Arizona? And is it public information where those cameras are located? It depends on the city. Some cities, as part of their transparency portals that we provide free of charge, make their locations available. Some don't. And so it's purely an agency decision. Flock does not proactively disclose that because it's we, the agencies are our customers and we respect their decision as to whether. they should be public about or not. I don't have the exact answer for the total number of cameras in Arizona, but we work with over 7,000 law enforcement agencies across the country. And we're very proud that even in the midst of these very tense conversations where some communities have been pausing, at least seven times many more communities have signed on with us. And we're proud of that. And we're going to continue to chat with folks and engage on this really, really important conversation. Trevor, I really appreciate the time today. I think you're going to at least quell some suspicions for many people and you give a lot of people something to talk about. I know that's your job, but I appreciate you doing with my audience. Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me. All right. That is Trevor Chandler. He's the senior director of public affairs for the flock camera company. Now a little bit more information for you to go on to make your decision on what you think is right or wrong. Coming up in a moment, we get an update on what's happening in the Middle East. It's Gatos, and how much will you have to pay for those overhead bins on a plane? Yep, it's happening. Get your wallet out. We're going to talk about it outspoken with Bruce and Gatos. We started too, and you can watch it on the KTAR YouTube channel. All right, let's talk about what's happening in the Middle East. You got an update we have to get to. The U.S. fires on a ship that broke, tried to break through the blockade. It was a Panama flagged ship, a Panamanian flagged ship. We also know that there have been dueling demands that have been made. The Iranians are making some serious demands. This is part of their MO. It has been for a long time. The U.S. in turn says, we got some demands of our own. You're going to pay reparations for the people you've killed, for the damage you've done. And so the president said, I want that put into every single negotiation from now on. The Iranian regime is now put in new military leaders that seem to be a lot more aggressive and more prone toward war. So the concerns, of course, are that this is going to be a longer more protracted encounter or war, battle, confrontation. And the bet the bet is this. As a matter of fact, it was. It was Pompeo, the former secretary of state or advisor. Pompeo said that he believes that what the Iranians are doing is they're trying to leverage the midterm elections. The president has said on a number of occasions, he doesn't care about the midterm elections, that this is what he is going to do is make sure they never get a nuclear weapon. And he also said that the...

This the strait is open. Now, I want you to hear the president asked the question, when are we opening the Strait of Hormuz? Well, it's open now. We're taking a lot of shit. It's open now. Look, the only one that has control of the Strait of Hormuz right now is the United States Navy. We have a blockade that's been infallible. It's a steel wall. And we let people in that we want to let in. And those people come in. They've been coming in and they're going out. So it's actually open now. We do not let them go into Iran. They're not admitted into the street to go to Iran. But it's open for others. Now, a little bit complex because they will, on occasion, drop a mine, and we find the mines. You know, we've mine swept the entire straight, as you probably maybe heard, maybe you didn't hear, but. We control the straight 100%. Now, can they make trouble? Yeah, they can make trouble. But they're broke. They have no money. You know, Iran is broke. So the Iranians are demanding concessions in the straight. Experts, like I said, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo described their list of demands as maximalist and a complete non-starter for the U.S., which they do intentionally. This is, again, how they've done business for almost half a century. It is also why that when this pause happened in the latest aggression, The experts all said it's good that we're pausing. Let diplomacy play out. And every single one of those experts were asked by whoever was interviewing them, do you believe we are going to have to go back to aggression? And every single expert said yes. Because we, and it's because we know how they behave. It is a pause in the aggression. Then they come to an agreement. It's close to an agreement. And then they come out with a brand new list of demands. It is what they've done for as long as I can remember. So what next? Do we go back to the battlefield? Do we go back to strikes? Does it only make the Iranian people suffer and not the regime? What is it going to take to turn the corner on this? And I don't think the president's doing the wrong thing. As a matter of fact, I believe that the president's doing what's necessary.

Here's what the president said about next steps with the Iranians. You said this last round of talks was Iran's last chance before decapitation. So what now? What's on that? You'll find that. Are you still, our massive escalation? Is that still on the table? Well, we have that certainly that ability if we want to do that. Yeah, you'll find that. You said you're low-keying it with them. You're semi-negotiating. What exactly does that mean? reparations, you might say, or they asked for money for the damage that we've done. And I said, that's a good idea. Well, we're going to ask for money for the damage they've done over 50 a period, whether you go SS Cole or whether you go all of the people that were so badly hurt, so badly wounded or killed many thousands of people and maybe damages for the 52,000 protesters over the last four months that we killed in Iran. We think their family should get damages for killing their person or their child or mother father that were protesting. It's at least it was 52,000 a month and a half ago. So now what is it? So if there's damages to be paid, I think Iran should pay those damages. So there's the hard line from both sides. We're going to see how this all plays out. I want to remind you this week, we have a special education series looking at why we have so many teacher vacancies in the state of Arizona. You can read the special coverage at KTR.com. You can listen every morning on Arizona's morning news on 92.3 FM. You can listen on the app or the KTR YouTube channel. Shira Tanzer is doing an excellent job with this series and the concerns about education. Coming up in just a moment, we are going to talk once again about the governor making it official. time we talk with a political consultant and an expert in Stan Barnes. That's all coming up here in just a moment. The Mike Brumet Show, KTAR News, 923 and the KTAR News app. All right. Right. Talking Arizona politics and the gubernatorial race that's got a twist this year for the first time, Arizona will elect a lieutenant governor, who then will be first in line in case the governor leaves office. The governor Hobbs made her announcement, and it officially now is what we all suspected and was leaked about a week ago, which is John Giles, former Republican mayor of Mesa, joining us to talk about this decision. Stan Barnes joins us, political consultant and expert. It's always good to talk to you, man. Yeah, Mike, hey, thanks for having me on. How are you doing this morning? You've been sounding good. I'm really excited about this conversation with you, particularly, because you've been watching things like this happened. So I want to throw something out there. The point of Arizona electing a lieutenant governor has been that if a governor leaves office, we don't have a situation where we had. um janet napolitano leave and we get a republican governor in jan brewer is this defeating the purpose or is that not going to be a concern to voters i i think the the punchline is it won't be a concern but for for party loyalists

And a third guy, a Rotarian builder, apartment owner that was just like right out of the phone book, tried to run that middle. And he ended up getting beat badly. And this today, 2026, the third party independent person, I don't think has any traction. I think it's a rounding error that I can't decide who it helps or who it hurts, but it's going to be very no factor in the. the general yeah because you remember well that when bill clinton was elected to his first term a lot of people thought it was because ross pro siphoned votes from republicans that were upset about no new taxes and going back on that promise of george hw bush exactly right that's how evan meekam got the governor's race in in 1986 we later impeached him but that's a whole other show so i but that that did happen but in this case uh that that person running for the independent spot has really no money, no name ID, and there's no energy there. I think it's really all about the two major parties. So when you look at the race for the two major parties, now that the lieutenant governor candidate, I would say classically speaking, the VP nominee doesn't sway an election one way or another. But this being the first time it's happened in Arizona and having a Democrat governor take what is now an independent lieutenant governor candidate, does that have more pull in this first time around? Do you think in the end we're going to be talking about this election? afterwards and it's going to be Hobbs versus Andy Biggs and that's all that's going to matter. Yeah, I think it's more or less going to be Hobbs Andy Biggs. But for the moment, we're having that experience because this is the first time. And people like you and I see the value and the interest historically. And I might say that Andy Biggs and Hobbs both did well with their choices. I see it mostly as downside for those guys. Mostly it's you can screw this up. You can't really improve yourself. But see it occur on the Andy Biggs ticket. is a tremendous pick and a gracious and talented experienced woman who's going to bring a certain rural vibe to the thing, which no one else is bringing in this race. And Giles is that McCain constituency guy. And Hobbs as a Democrat in a year when Democrats are Democratic Socialists and they're the winning ticket in Michigan and in California and New York and New Jersey, she has to remain above that Democratic Socialist. phenomenon and picking Giles is like an anchor to the right of the Democratic Party, where is where she wins the election. So strategically, she did the right thing as long as Democrats. that our partisans will sit still and enthusiastically still vote for. So give me your strategist hat for just a moment. If I were the Andy Biggs campaign, as we already mentioned before, I'd be saying there wasn't a Democrat, but the issue is now it is John Giles. Would you go out there and say to people, hang on a minute, all of you McCain Republicans, remember for somebody that says they're moderate, this is somebody that's endorsed Vice President Harris and multiple Democrats for a long time. So they're kind of pulling the wool over your eye.

Is that the strategy you would be going with? It's exactly right. You have to point out, if you're Andy Biggs campaign, point out that Giles backed Kamala Harris. And that says a lot. I mean, you're angry at Trump, and so you're backing Kamala Harris. That over-under is where the real friction is among the voting and electric. There are people that don't like Trump, but they couldn't bring themselves. to support Kamala Harris because she is what she is. And so the voter in play that's going to make the difference in this general is that voter. And the big campaign is going to try to paint Giles as somehow a person without a political soul who is just chasing power. And that is what they're going to do. I don't know that it will stick and it takes money to tell that story. But that is the hook that they're going to try to hang. On the other side of this, to give credit to John Giles, Giles was the mayor of Mesa for a very long time. And he's got a record and he's good at campaigning. And all of those things are going to be pluses for him when people start to ask those questions. They have to be prepared to answer them, correct? Oh, no doubt. And Giles is an attorney. He's accomplished guy. He did a great job as mayor. He's a fantastic individual. But I mean, I'm living out in that zip code. I'm a mason native. I still live there. And I'm watching the divide in the Republican Party. The flake Giles divide where that constituency just doesn't know where to go. Giles, as a profile person, decided to lean into it. He spoke in the Democratic National Convention, you know, all of that kind of thing. So that gives Katie Hobbs cover to say he's my guy, even though he's not a lifelong Democrat. But this, again, there's a narrow window of voter, narrow universe of voters that are there that's really going to decide this election and it's going to be close. And the Giles pick is designed to speak to that voter directly. Man, I could talk to you all day about this stuff. So I hope between now and then we can do this more often because I'd like to get some input. I love to, Mike. Appreciate you. All right. Thanks. That Stan Barnes spent in a few moments with us coming up. Getting veterans employed in an industry that is very, very necessary. We'll get to it next. Hey, it's LaDonna. How Not to Be the Pig in the latest pig butchering scam. Another nonsense that's meant to separate you from your money. That's tomorrow morning from 5 to 8 on Arizona's morning news. Be sure to catch us on the KTAR YouTube channel. Interesting story. We got a few minutes to talk about. There is a movement using the GI Bill to train veterans to fill the trucking vacancies that were created when the enforcement started happening with people that couldn't read the signs and people that were in the country, some of them illegally, but they couldn't speak English well enough to read the road signs. And so we've seen a drop in serious accidents. And what we're now seeing are veterans. Being recruited to take these jobs, it is a push.

to try to end veteran homelessness, to add to veteran employment. The trucking industry has been a reliable source. If you think about everything we, I mean, 99% of what we consume, spend some time on a truck. And so this is an industry that's in very, very high demand most of the time. And if we can do this, if they can use the GI Bill, they are going to be able to train some people to fill these roles. And it's going to be able to kill two birds with one stone. And so I kind of like the way this direction is headed when there's a focus on. trying to employ people that have served their country. I think giving someone a sense of purpose and giving someone this kind of a career is something that can only end well for many, many people. When I've talked with veterans and many of them I've talked with that make the transition from their service and active duty to the civilian society, it isn't really about the money because they don't make a lot of money in the military either. But it is about pride. It is about feeling proud of the work that you're doing. And when you're in charge of people and you're in charge of millions, if not billions of dollars in equipment. There is a sense of responsibility and trust that comes along with it. And many times that transition to civilian life, it isn't that way. And you go back kind of to the bottom wrong of the latter in many cases when you're going into a job unless it's a skill set you can transfer directly over. And so I think in this situation, it is needed. I think it helps people feel as if they're contributing. Because I think we all want to. We want a job where we're going to make enough money to earn a living and kind of live the life we want to live. That to me is a big issue for people. But it is also. something that we want to feel as if we're serving the community around us, especially if you've been in the military or if you're a first responder, there is a commitment to your community that goes along with it. You want to feel as if you're accomplishing something. And I thought this was a good idea that when these vacancies are open, if you're a veteran and you have the GI Bill, and this is an area where we are going to need many people. And you want to, I just think it's a win-win. And it doesn't, I didn't get a whole lot of coverage from a lot of people. But when I read it, I thought this is a unique way to fill some gaps. And so I just, I think it's a good one. I think it's a good idea. And I'm hoping that, that so many people are going to recognize how good this can be. And it gets out into the veteran community if somebody's looking for a job. I'd love to be. I know this is a dumb thing to say for a lot of people, but I love the idea of this.

I just would, I would do this in a heartbeat if I were younger and looking to get into a career. I think being a truck driver would be an honorable profession, a great way, especially if you're over the road and you're going along distances, be a great way to see the country. I just hope a lot of people take advantage of it. I want to remind you about our Amazing Arizona's podcast series that we have up. It's been going on for about three years we've been doing this. It's brought to you by our good friends at Resolution Copper. And the Amazing Arizona podcast is something that we've just wanted to tell great Arizona stories. And we've been doing that. We've been so honored by our list of guests. We've got a brand new season starting. As a matter of fact, I'll be recording an episode today with a guest we'll be telling you about. It is a project that I think everyone in the building that's involved in this. happy with. You can go to the KTAR YouTube channel, the KTR News app or anywhere you download podcast. Just look for the key phrase amazing Arizona's. Check out those list of guests. I think you're going to be impressed by the people that we have. Coming up just after 10 o'clock, I got a message from somebody about Dr. Anthony Fauci saying that I was spreading misinformation about, about a miscarriages and women that got the shot. What I did was I quoted Dr. Anthony Fauci. If there's misinformation out there, I just repeated what he said. So if you're upset with me that I was giving misinformation, he started it. I just quoted him. So we're going to talk about that because this is a very serious issue as sarcastic as I'm being. We'll get to it in a moment.