Trump Escalates Threats on Domestic Force

Instagram teen accounts default teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. Explore teen accounts and all of our ongoing work to protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you proved it to you, would that frighten you? While now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. Welcome to the beat, everyone. I'm Ari Melbert, and we are covering Donald Trump's efforts to test or abuse federal powers. He made an unusual address to American soldiers overseas. You may recall the many lectures that have been delivered by politicians, often in the Republican Party, about how politics must stop at the water's edge. Take a listen to yourself about how the president sounded discussing things like his politicized crackdown on what he says are the problems that are only in certain places, basically cities run by the opposition party. He has less time and apparently interest in fighting crime and places that happen to be controlled by his fellow Republicans. And then in this, again, unusual address to troops overseas, he issued a type of warning. We can't have cities that are troubled. And we're sending in our National Guard. And if we need more than the National Guard, we'll send more than the National Guard because we're going to have safe cities. Safe cities, of course, again, the context is the evidence, not just what politicians say, but what they do. And this politician, who is running the United States, has been using this type of force only. in places run by the opposition party, which is why it has looked so political. Then you hear the words, quote, more than the National Guard. Well, there ain't a lot more than that other than soldiers or tanks or military powers. We don't want to speculate, but we are covering the president saying this not in a random musing or even one of his online posts, but to a group of assembled soldiers. There are reports. Trump wants to take more political and personal control over aspects of federal force that aren't usually done this way. He may have lawful authority to do that, but it's at least, again, unusual going at the regional leadership of ICE and Border Patrol and looking for those who would go into those spots and be more aggressive in their approach. A DHS veteran or official, but telling us that the mentality is they do what they're told, and the administration thinks ICE isn't getting the job done. So they will do it. Now, again, there is what is allowed and then there is what is good policy or not. As for what is allowed, it may very well be the president is currently testing how much the courts will allow him to take more personal control over more aspects of the government. Control over DOJ, reaching down into different parts of these agencies.

And then there's the whether this is good or not. That's what elections are about. We'll have one in November because a lot of Americans, according to the polling, have looked at what is happening on the immigration crackdown, and they find it to be too much, too aggressive, too unfocused, not targeting violent criminals, but instead mothers who've been here for a decade. And so it is telling that the administration thinks they haven't gone far enough. Now, there's also this discussion of an accusation about using... I'm going to show you this. Excessive Force. Now this was filmed with the tear gas being distributed in Chicago. Some of the video is difficult, of course, to follow. That's because some of it has just come about and citizen made. But you can see some of it here. We want you to see with your own eyes what went down. There's an alleged violation here of a judge's order. It bans agents from deploying gas on protesters. The judge ordered them to appear in court for daily updates. And this is striking because it has to do with the belief by the judge that maybe there isn't real compliance and they need to exercise more oversight. This is about immigration agents wearing body cameras. Axios notes that the president is asserting the right to unilaterally use the military wherever, whenever, and be the sole judge and jury. of his own actions. The only real limit on Trump now appears in his view to be, quote, Trump himself. I want to bring in Chey Komen Dori, political strategist, veteran of the Obama campaign, and a former federal prosecutor and congressional counsel, John Flannery. Welcome to both of you. Hi. Che, I tried to word this as accurately as possible. There are things that may be very unpopular, which are allowed, unusual but allowed. And that is what Trump is testing. I should mention not only in immigration, but in other areas, he's got a big fight at the Fed. over whether he can take that power or not. And it may be that this Supreme Court allows it, and it's unpopular. Then there are things that are clearly, completely out of bounds, unlawful, like telling troops abroad, maybe he'll come forward and ask them to patrol and do wartime activities against the American people. Now, I was careful to say. He said if, but if he does, that's out of bounds. How do you view and make sense of all of this on that spectrum? Well, it's been a very much like a kind of a slow authoritarian creed by Trump. You know, they have been fairly selective. They have been moving in a slow but deliberate manner. It's sort of like the vampires and the movie sinners where, you know, as miles spoils for that movie, you know, for the first half of the film, you know, life is continuing as it's as normal. Even though the vampires are out there, they're hurting people. And then suddenly they're at your doorstep. And that's kind of the way authoritarian's move. That's kind of the way authoritarian's work. But it's important for everyone to be reminded that just because life appears to be normal, you know, we're all watching the World Series. We're watching Steelers Packers. You know, that doesn't mean that life actually is normal.

We have mass agents abducting people off the streets. We have a DOJ that is going after the president's enemies. We have a ballroom being built at taxpayer suspense while there is a government shutdown and government workers cannot receive their paychecks. None of this is normal. And just because it appears to be normal doesn't mean it is. John? Well, you know, the thing about this is the description of what is going on. His lie in this case, and there's always a lie at the heart of whatever he's doing, his lie is that he gives a damn about policing the people and keeping them safe from violence. The number of people present, as this recovering federal prosecutor would observe, who are put there to take care of the crimes are not enough. 200 people, 100 people. Why are they there then? Why are they there if it's not a real patrol? It's important point. Go ahead. Yeah. To provoke, to provoke and to get the film that they want. And instinctively, or by design, the people in the various locations, which are Democrats, are wearing costumes and so forth, making ridiculous what they do. And the officers who are untrained and unprofessional, even in their propaganda, even in their violence, don't know how to accomplish it. And so you see them actually... provoking it. We see them throwing gas and stuff like that. And they think they're holding their constituency together. Well, and if I may, I'll let you finish. We can't get inside the mind of every single agent. There may be some who, as you describe, and the judge is concerned, are being provocative with tear gas. There may be others who are assigned there for the day and are standing there going, why am I here? I mean, again, if you go down the line of each one, I will say your account is consistent with what the judge reprimanded, at least their leader for. Right. And, you know, when the people are on the ground are coming there with mercenary bounties to do what they're doing and wearing masks and acting like thugs, these are the people we should be arresting. And the powers for police that are necessary don't exist here. aside from the amendments of the Constitution that reserves the states, the police power, which is not compromised in those places if you look at the statistics over the years. So what do we have? We have a president who is having an army in his mind, though still small, to take care of us domestically for what? The election, control over the people. He's adventuring into South America. and may without a pledge from the Congress to authorize a war, go forward with a war there, because that's who he is. You know, cowards always do this kind of thing. You take a person who is a kid had a fistfight, they're going to be reserved about going into any war legitimately. This guy who has no experience in any way did what he could to avoid any service that might have put him at risk is prepared to put anybody at risk because he thinks they're all losers. He tells them what he thinks they need to hear when he's prepared to punish them.

at every turn and does. And as soon as they say anything truthful and disloyal, say there was a carry, as was true in the Vietnam War, who came forward now and said, you know what's really going on? This guy would be crushed like that because we already have an authoritarian government and we don't have people fighting back. It's no accident that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s book Profiles and Courage is such a thin book because there have been so few heroes in our American history. And now when we're challenging some of our basic views, the equality of people before the law, equal justice based on color, based on origin, based on religion, all these differences. We can't tolerate differences because these people are feared to have anything except an all white government and anybody else be damned. Well, look, that's John's view. I'll mention, Che, as you know, we've had borders our Tom Homan on. We have a lot of different views. John is very clear in his. And if it sounds, it may sound harsh. But I will put forward as we do around here, Che the evidence, John is making his argument. Here's some of the evidence. This is an independent judge. Orders the daily meetings here with Border Patrol. with the local leader, Bovino, because of the way the Chicago immigration enforcement's going. And the judge basically admonishing the government here, those kids were tear gassed on their way to celebrate Halloween in the school parking lot, says this federal judge, Judge Ellis. I can only imagine how terrified they were. These kids, their sense of safety shattered on Saturday, of course, this weekend. And it's going to take a long time for that to come back if ever. And so, Che, that's some of what's happening, whether or not every agent there intended that or was involved in that. The judge is saying the buck stops in this case with the local leader in charge, and they got to go daily and they may have to wear now a body camera, the level of oversight the judge wants, because the concern is, one, this was a feature, not a bug, and two, the body camera because they don't believe that these Trump officials are telling the truth in court. Yeah, I mean, it's all very disturbing and none of it should have ever been allowed to happen, but it is happening. And I would say that there is a significant and serious pushback in the country. I mean, we had a no kings protest that brought out seven million people to say in America, we don't have kings. When Donald Trump tried to do something that really did touch upon people's normal lives, like censoring and getting rid of Jimmy Kimmel, you saw the pushback. You saw the blowback. And it was really ferocious. Yeah. I mean, you know, people were canceling their Disney Plus subscriptions. And Disney got the memo. Sinclair got the memo. And they corrected course. I mean, that is the kind of sustained effort that you need to see more of and would be more successful if we can do it on a more repeated constant basis. One thing I'll also say that has worked is portraying yourself as the rebel and betraying Donald Trump as the man. I think that's like one of the reasons Jimmy Kimmel succeeded.

You know, Demi Kimmel was Ferris Bueller and Donald Trump was the high school principal. You know, it really sort of put a face on the idea of authoritarianism in American life. You know, I've been watching Zohran Mamdani's ads in New York. And one of the things he says is, you know, I'm up against Andrew Cuomo and the billionaires. You know, he's the rebel and Andrew Cuomo and the billionaires, they are the man. That sort of speaks to this anti-establishment moment that we're in. Because we are right now in a moment where the establishment is very much authoritarian or really wants to be authoritarian. Really striking point. And you're sort of weaving together, Che, the substance with the actual political argument. Are you over here just complaining not? Not to minimize it, but that's how it can come across to busy people with their own lives. Or are you just kind of giving the man, as you said, or the system hell, because the system's not working on a number of fronts. And then some of those other important points come into it. I want to show you both what Rachel Maddow said. And I think if viewers haven't seen this, it's worth hearing. And we're going to run that and get your response when we're back with our same panel in 90 seconds.

The American people and institutions in this country get a say into how far he's going to be able to go. And sometimes protest is the most important lever in determining what institutions and powerful people themselves are willing to do, regardless of what Trump wants. Rachel discussing the interplay between the rules and pressure over here, call that America or civil society, and what Trump wants, right? He may want to rule forever. He may want to have soldiers be his personal police force. And so in a time where his own party and other levers aren't stopping necessarily what he wants, the question is, what's over here? Well, tonight we can report, the law is still over here. The Constitution is the baseline of everything. It is what, for example, includes a limit with no exceptions on presidents serving only two terms. Never three, only two. And while Trump has talked about wanting more, we have news tonight where the Republican Speaker of the House, who has warmed and helped Trump on many, many things, is out loud saying, where the law limits Trump's power. Take a look. I would love to do it. I have my best numbers ever. It's very terrible. I have my best numbers. Well, there is the 22nd Amendment. I think the president knows, and he and I've talked about the constrictions of the Constitution. As much as so many the American people lament that, I don't see the path for that. The speaker knows the Constitution has no path for that. For GOP Speaker Johnson, as we do around here sometimes on facts and law, the legal fact check. True. There is no path in any way for Donald Trump to rule past 2028 under the Constitution. Let's hear that again. I don't see the path for that. No path, no way, no how. I want to bring back Che and John who are with us. And Chey... Fact check true, and that's just the baseline law. But does it matter that some people in office, including some Republicans, are accurately referring to the Constitution rather than playing games lying or softly using their platform to suggest maybe a dictatorship or a coup would be okay? Yeah, and I think it's actually very telling that they're doing this. I think that you're seeing with Republicans some sense that they have to look beyond Trump. One person who's clearly gotten a memo is Marjorie Taylor Greene. You know, she has been distancing herself from Trump on a number of issues. You're seeing some of the other commentators, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, others beginning to distance themselves from Trump. you're seeing on the state level, you know, the GOP candidate in New Jersey who got Trump's endorsement, he wants nothing to do with Trump. He has it in very small letters on his website that Donald Trump has endorsed him. You know, take a magnifying glass. Maybe you can see it. So there is that beginning sense that we have to distance ourselves from Trump. We have to look past Trump because contrary to what Trump said in that clip.

credit, however basic it is that Amy Coney Barrett is right. She happens to be appointed by him, but she is publicly saying, no. Yes, I agree. Well, she has had other opinions I've agreed with. It's not a question of presuming that we're always going to have a difference. And she has been, she's shown some differences in her approaches, as John Roberts has too, although my general objection would continue that the gang of six, if you will, is compromising the very question perhaps in the future on this 22nd Amendment. Because if it goes from the lower courts, which have seemed to have been. able to read and to protect and preserve the Constitution. And then it gets to the middle courts and the Supreme Court. We had a very different reality, which sort of fits the wealthy versus we community politicians. And it also says the balance between the wealthy and the middle class and the poor class, that contract has been broken by this guy because he doesn't believe in equality. That's a large part of this problem. So I went beyond your question. No, you both speak clearly. I hope people listening feel educated because you've spoken to the law, the politics and the strange times we're in. Before we go on a lighter note, John always looking his best like he could be practicing. He could go from this TV interview right to court with the beautiful books behind you. I'd like you to give some sartorial input to Che. Do you think that his casual look works or would you recommend a bow tie for him? Oh, I think it's perfect for him. I think it looks good on him. California Caj. Yes, but this is my talism and so I don't get angry when somebody. crashes and burns in front of me and says, don't you believe in that? And I, instead of saying something more terrible, I say, no, I don't agree with that. Jay, I don't know if you have a pop culture or movie reference for this, but the clothes can matter, you know, the Ocean 13 outfit that I think you're kind of given a reboot to Ocean 12, Ocean 11, what have you. Right. You've got John's vote. Yes, well, I'm like, comfortable. Yeah, and I love the fact that John does wear that bowtie because it's a reminder that John is. an old school small r republican uh you know back when i was a kid very never never never he means like an anti federalist like a yeah yeah someone who believes in in our constitution i mean i remember george will used to have the bow tie on on sunday mornings right and he made some very eloquent smart arguments about our constitution that i took very seriously as a liberal uh you know

And it should also be pointed out that Tucker Carlson had the bow tie, dropped the bow tie, and became what he is now. You know what? And if you go back far, by the way, news trivia, John, Tucker Carlson used to at one time anchor the 6 p.m. Eastern Hour. on MSNBC where we reside now. And maybe he needs one of your bow ties. Send one over to him. John and Che, thank you both. I want to tell folks what's coming up. Michael McFaul, the Obama diplomat and MSNBC analyst. We'll join us by the end of the hour. He's got some big picture thoughts about diplomacy today, the era of so-called Strongman and his new book. Speaker Johnson, under new attacks from the right today and a clash turning into reality. When you look at how the shutdown matters, we have that story with our friend Molly Jong-Fast. Next. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for teens. Instagram teen accounts have built-in content settings and limits for who can contact teens. Plus, teens under 16 can't change these default safety settings without parental approval. So parents can help teens connect safely. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. Burlington knows you cannot forget Mother's Day. And be real, texting your sibling to add your name to their card isn't enough. Instead, head to your newly refreshed Burlington, where it's easier to shop for deals that'll make Mom proud. Find fragrances from perfume to candles or opt for a brand name bag. Plus, your store had a glow up, so it's more fun to shop for those special women in your life. Mom is Wow upside down after all. Burlington, deals, brands, wow.

The government has now been shut down about a month, technically 28 days. Republicans are in control. They have the White House in Congress. Shutdowns usually go to the party in power, and if they last too long and people get upset, they hold the party in power responsible, but we are in strange times and precedent doesn't always determine what's going to happen. We aren't seeing much of a breakthrough when it comes to the negotiating position. And so... Whatever you think of the politics, which is where it starts in D.C., we can report as we try to do around here on the evidence, which is having the federal government shut down and in this sort of limited mode for a month, is affecting real people. Food assistance is seeing longer lines. Federal workers are going weeks without pay. And remember, whatever you think of the people in the federal workforce, they affect our lives, our flights, our national security, and just not getting them paid for a long time, only to pay them again later because politicians couldn't figure this out is not the best way to retain them or their morale. Meanwhile, whether you're one of them or not, About 40 million people in the United States get some kind of food benefits. They used to call on food stamps. They're now called Snap. But they're going to face a tough holidays as the program is going to run out of money. I mentioned what's already happened. This is what's going to happen. Three days from now, 40 million people will be without that food assistance heading into Thanksgiving. Here is Speaker Johnson. One of the reasons that this shutdown has not yet been as painful as it might otherwise have been is because the president is bent over backwards of the administration. They've done some creative, amazing things to mitigate, to lessen the pain as much as possible. Speaker Johnson thinks that they are creatively lessening the pain for regular people. Well, on food assistance... Actually, the president is refusing to tap funds that are available. It's called a contingency fund. It could be used in exactly this scenario, and it's got billions of dollars, which could do a patch for those people. The idea being that, while other things might be worth cutting back on until they reopen the government, having kids not being able to eat isn't one of them. dozens of states are now suing, saying, the cuts aren't fair, they're going to reopen the government someday, we know that. This isn't like a budget cut. Sooner or later, they'll reopen the government, they'll free up the food funds, but why should, and I don't usually speak this starkly, but it's literally the question, why should American children go hungry until then? And that's not the only federal program that affects the young. You've heard of Head Start and early child care. They are now at risk as the funding that lasted for these 28 days will also run out. Now, if preschoolers don't move you, I don't know what will, but maybe you don't want your flight home to be late for Thanksgiving. Does that matter more? Well, that's also affected. Thousands of flights now delayed because we have limited air traffic controllers. They are required by a lot of work without pay, but as the shutdown draws...

into the second month, some have to take second jobs to make money before again. When the government reopens, many will soon return to being full-time traffic controllers. Others are calling in sick and then driving Uber. It's not logical. It's not good for air travel safety, and it's probably not good for you if you plan on flying anytime over the holidays. Trump and Johnson say they are lessening the pain. Not everyone is towing the party line anymore. Some Republicans have been hearing from people in red states who still don't like the flight problems or the preschool problems or the absence of food funding. We had a reference earlier by our colleague, Che Komanduri here, saying that some Republicans are turning away from Trump. He's cited Marjorie Taylor Greene, and she's ripping her colleagues over this issue, reportedly on a private call today. Whether that goes public soon, we may hear. In every state and in many smaller parts of America, red, blue, purple, whatever, people who are running into this problem, which again... will end because the politicians will eventually reopen the government. So all of this pain is quite literally avoidable. And some are speaking out. I'm only down to one pack of chicken and I don't even know what I'm going to do for the next month. One word to describe how you're feeling right now. Stressful. That's what it feels like is that we're being punished for needing the assistance or needing the help. I just hope and pray that they don't shut it down because a lot of people and I'm a lot of mothers that are really dependent on the SNAP benefits. My son won't have his milk and we won't have food. I'll go without eating or anything as long as my kids eat. These are real people. These are real problems. They are avoidable. In Washington, we hear about red and blue and politics and ideology, and we cover plenty of that around here too. But if the politics don't move everyone, maybe the people will. What do you call it when some of the most powerful individuals in the country can't get together and get something solved to help those people you heard there who are feeling very powerless right now? We have Molly Zhang Fast here when we return.

Lattice is the first comprehensive HR platform where people and AI succeed together. It helps every employee grow faster, every manager lead more effectively, and every company unlock their people's full potential. Stop settling for HR tools that hold your company back. Build a future where technology doesn't replace people, but actually elevates them. No regrets. Ready to see the power of people plus AI? Visit lattice.com slash no regrets. That's LATT ICE.com. No Regrets. Instagram teen accounts default teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. Explore teen accounts and all of our ongoing work to protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Dedication isn't born in the light of day. It's carved in the quiet hours before the world blinks awake. At Borishead, we rise with a mission to deliver craftsmanship worthy of your table. A slice of something special folded into every moment worth savoring because dedication means delivering only the very best. Thank you. Warshead, committed to craft since 1905.

I'm only down to one pack of chicken. I don't even know what I'm going to do for the next month. One word to describe how you're feeling right now. Stressful. That's what it feels like is that we're being punished for needing the assistance or needing the help. I just hope and pray that they don't shut it down because a lot of people and a lot of mothers that are really dependent on the SNAP benefits. My son won't have his milk and we won't have food. I'll go without eating or anything as long as my kids eat. Real people speaking out. We're joined by Molly Jong Fas from New York Times opinion. We see it there. You can cover this from many angles, but it's about to start hitting real people with food assistance, which is 40 million people. Right. And food assistance, I just want to point out again, like this is the richest cabinet in the world, right? This is the richest cabinet the American government has ever had. Billionaires, 100 millionaires. These people... do not, you know, they do not live in the same universe as these women. And so that's part of why I think this is so egregious. I also want to say like these health care premiums, November 1 is when they start skyrocketing. So remember, Democrats had wanted to keep funding these Obamacare subsidies so that insurance didn't go up 20, 30, 40 percent. These are going to start happening on November 1st. So we're seeing these real world effects. And remember, Donald Trump said, he said, remember the weave with bacon, he said, I'm going to make things cheaper. You should vote for me because I'm going to make things cheaper. So what is all of this doing, right? The health care. The weave is just a funny reference about a rather serious topic. Right, which is he would talk about how he's going to make things cheaper, right? He'd talk about bacon, he'd talk about eggs, he'd do the weave. But in the end, it was people are hurting because of inflation. So now here we have. these health care subsidies, which will expire, which means that health care will get much more expensive and people will be thrown off health care. Then we have a government that's deciding not to fund SNAP. For example, there have been other shutdowns where they have funded SNAP. And this was a choice. The administration made a choice not to fund SAW. And the money is there right now. That's right. Contingency and emergency funds are as defined by the ruler. Yeah. Here the ruler has fake emergencies to send troops in, and the courts say that it's not a real emergency. American starving. Yeah. Kids not eating or having to choose whether the parent or the child eats, which is what we reported there, feels like an emergency in that household. And I want to play more from what we're hearing. You know, we live in a different world now. People can share this stories much easier online. And so some of this is on platforms of TikTok. Take a look. Our president was just seen dancing in Malaysia while we're in the midst of a government shutdown. Some of us are going to food banks. The government should be embarrassed. That's what my TSA agents have this morning. People can't afford to feed their families. They can't afford to pay their bills. They can't afford their medicines. And now there are no snap benefits. What is the point of coming together as a society, as a civilization, funding a government, if not so everybody can eat? Yeah. And I think none of this is popular. I mean, this is the problem with Trumpism is like he's pulling underwater on the economy, on immigration. Like the numbers are bad. And now he's taking away more stuff from people. And, you know, he hasn't made things cheaper because of the tariffs. So we're seeing, you know, I just don't understand. And then we have Mike Johnson out there. And he's saying, you know, like we did what we could, but we can't do. You know, we don't know what we can do. You control the House, the Senate.

the presidency. You can do whatever you want. And the reality is a lot of Democrats are anxious about making deals with Mike Johnson because they know what Annie Carney reported this weekend in the New York Times, which is that Donald Trump, considers himself to really be the Speaker of the House. So making a deal with Mike Johnson may not mean anything. Oh, absolutely. And look, he's going to own this sooner or later. Some Republicans think in the short run they can just play blame. It's hard to do in red states where we have millions of people on this type of food assistance. But that's context for this Alabama Republican. Take a look. Yeah. Democrats are getting a little bit tight right now. It's their constituents, a lot of them that. in some of these inner cities that they're going to need SNAP to survive, and they're getting a lot of calls. And the pressure is going to be put on them. A lot of people need to go back to work. A lot of young men that are on SNAP that should be working. One fact check, and I'll let you respond. we don't use the shutdown to change federal policy. So if you think that there are too many young men in Alabama who are sitting around getting food assistance is not going to work, then you could try to change that policy because what he knows, and maybe he's playing dumb, playing ignorant is, when the government reopens, all these policies kick back in. And that's what I think has angered some of the people who know about this is you say, oh, but in six weeks the food will come back, but you've had to go through this what one woman called punishment. for no logical reason. Well, that was Tommy Tuberville, who is arguably, I'm going to say, I don't think he's playing dumb. But, you know, maybe I've been trying to be real generous. Flannery earlier today said I was being intellectually generous. I'm trying to be fair. I think you're being generous. But yes, the whole notion that this is about something other than Donald Trump not, you know. He runs the government. The last longest shutdown we had was the last time. It was the Republicans, you know, controlling. So I think that this is going to, I think when people in red states start to feel the heat, the elected, they will come to Trump and they'll have to tell him. I mean, some of these people are going to have to run for election again. Yeah. Well put, as always, as we try to look at also how this affects people again. We're three days out from that. That's going to be a big inflection point in the shutdown. Molly Jong-Fast, thanks, as always. Coming up, the White House renovated or destroyed, questions are why are their troops in the street? Why are parts of your government buildings falling down? Ambassador Michael McFall next.

Just like Clinton said back in 1992, it's the economy stupid. That was kind of the bumper sticker for our aid in Russia. And I think we made a big mistake in that in not putting more into political assistance to the development of rule of law, the development of civil society. Rule of law and civil society. Important things said, you might recognize a young Michael McFall. He was speaking by the decline of those basic civil aspects abroad. But as we see destruction here of our own public government buildings without so much as a democratic process or real review or... Even more seriously, a president who calls for political enemies or opponents as he views them to be indicted, and then they are, there are increasing comparisons between what the U.S. used to fight abroad and what Donald Trump and parts of the Republican Party are welcoming here at home. There are comparisons, of course, to Vladimir Putin, who is a more murderous thug in all sorts of ways, and so it can almost seem like too great of a contrast, and yet... It is a blue print and a playbook that many see in part Donald Trump pursuing. With that in mind, we are joined by the aforementioned Michael McFall. He was President Obama's pick for the very crucial position of Ambassador to Russia, and he has a new book out today, which is why we're thrilled to welcome him to the beat. Autocrats versus Democrats, China, Russia, America, and the new global disorder. Congratulations and welcome. Well, thanks for having me and thanks for showing the book. The book and the young you. And the young, I haven't seen that clip for a long, long time. I don't know if I've ever seen that clip 25 years ago talking about some things that echo our times here in America. Yeah, we hear these words rule of law, civil society. Sometimes you don't know. what they mean until they're endangered. Right now, you have people who think of themselves as independent business persons checking with the federal government and specifically the Trump administration before they hire and fire or whether they could do a merger. You have Jimmy Kimmel very close to cancel, as mentioned on tonight's program, unless there was backlash. What parallels do you see and what you've lived as a diplomat abroad and the warning signs here? There definitely are parallels. In fact, in February of 2017, I wrote a piece in the Washington Post comparing what I thought might happen in the first Trump administration to the early years of Vladimir Putin, not today, like you rightly pointed out. And it didn't happen in that first term, but I see a lot of parallels today. And you just pointed out several of them. So Vladimir Putin first told all the oligarchs, he said, you got to play by my side. I'll cut your taxes. I'll be good for you, but you got to support me. Does that sound familiar? Second. using not the rule of law, but rule by law to persecute his enemies. He did that in the early years. And then third, he redistributed property rights to take control of independent media. They didn't have as much as us. And that's a big plus we have compared to them. But he did that first. And then what he didn't like some comedians? There was this very famous show called Kukle. And he puppets, is how you translate that.

Really, really funny show, by the way. They made fun of everyone, Ari. They would have made fun of you and me. They made fun of the media. But they also made fun of Vladimir Putin. And particularly, I think they made some jokes about his height and he pulled him off the air. But there was no pushback and they stayed off the air. So you see these parallels and they're disturbing to me. The reporting shows that the Trump folks are happy with much of this. The journal, which is a... Owned by Rupert Murdoch says inside the Trump White House now, advisors joke that ruling Congress with an iron fist, Steve Bannon likens Congress to the Russian Duma. Well, there you go. Another parallel. And that happened in the early Vladimir Putin years where the parliament just became a rubber stamp for whatever Vladimir Putin did. And if they dared to do something different, they would be punished. You see that. And that is dangerous. And then the last thing down the road, not right away, that there was this horrific terrorist attack in Russia in 2004. Besslon, a school was attacked, and Vladimir Putin used that terrorist attack to get rid of elections for governors. Now, we haven't gotten there, but there are lots of people talking about when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, that we had to have more controls over this, that, and the other. Thankfully, it hasn't happened. And remember, there's some things that are different, too. So one is when Russia was rolling, when Vladimir Putin was rolling back democracy in Russia, Russians had only had a few years of democratic experience. We've got 250 years. The last big protests were called no kings on purpose. That goes way back to 1776. Big advantage we have over them. And two, the institutions, the independent institutions, the checks and balances, civil society, independent media, opposition party, like it to be stronger in my view than it is today, but we have an opposition party, governors. even some aspects of the private sector. They are independent of our president today. And I wish they'd push back more, but they are pushing back. You didn't see that in Vladimir Putin's Russia. So let's broaden out to the whole globe with the 90 seconds left. Why are these so-called strong men making such a resurgence around the world? Three reasons. One, the autocrats have more power. So China and Russia compared to 30 years ago, they just have more power. They can do more things. Two, there is democratic erosion in some countries that used to be democratic. Russia's one of them, Turkey's one of them. They flipped. But three, and I would say most importantly, has been the erosion of democracy in the old liberal democracies, especially our own. And when we are divided at home, when we're polarized at home, we're weaker when it comes to dealing with the autocrats abroad.

It's important stuff. You make it very clear, and you have walked the walk, as they say. I'm going to put the book up on the screen. I encourage folks to check it out if you're interested. Of course, Ambassador McFall is a MSNBC analyst for us, but a decorated diplomat, the book, Autocrats versus Democrats, brand new out today. We'll be right back. Donald Trump yet again trolled in the media by refusing to rule out running for an illegal third term, which he can't do because it's against the Constitution. And if there's one thing we know about the man is that he respects the sanctity of documents. He says he hasn't thought about it. But of course, we know he's thought about it because... He already has the merch. It's so weird to make a hat for a thing that can't happen. Wearing a Trump 2028 hat is like wearing a hat that says Super Bowl champion, New York Jets. Can't happen. Comics get the last word tonight. Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness. I'm Shaquille O'Neill, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask you a doctor about Zep bound terseptide. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains chrezepotide and should not be used with other chrezepotide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop stepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills, taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit Zepbound.lily.com.