Can Nashville Regulate the Proposed Data Centers at the Zoo and Fisk?

Today on CityCast Nashville, data centers are suddenly the talk of the town, from a proposed facility near the Nashville Zoo to a major project planned at Fisk University. Councilmember Rollin Horton joins us to explain why he's pushing for Nashville's first regulations on data centers and what they could mean for our city's future. It's Monday, June 15th. I'm Maurice Cecil Anderson, and this is what Nashville's talking about. There are already 27 data centers in the Nashville area, according to data center map. But until now, Nashville hasn't had any specific rules governing where or how they're built. Were data centers essentially slipping through the cracks of our zoning codes? Yeah, that's right. So in our metro code of ordinances and our zoning code, data centers are not a defined use, which creates a lot of ambiguity over how they can be treated and what process they're subject to. And I was looking at a lot of the harm and concerns that data centers have brought to communities, both here in Tennessee and across the country, which caused me to look at our code of ordinances and look at what rules and regulations we have in place. And the answer was none. None. None. And so I filed legislation to try to get in front of that issue and try to impose some common sense rules and restrictions around them before it becomes a problem here in Nashville. Why is it such a hot button issue now? Not just here, but around the country. I think there are a very new land use type. I think our artificial intelligence boom has increased the demand for data centers. And so we're seeing them spring up all of a sudden in a way that they weren't just two, three, four years ago. And so a lot of cities like ours are playing catch up as we bring our laws up to date to account for these new types of structures that are going up in our community. Okay, so Nashville, zero regulations or rules in place. You have introduced legislation that will help regulate these data centers. Can you walk us through your bill and what would actually change if it passes? So first, the big hyperscale type data centers that are bigger than 500,000 square feet, that's bigger than nine football fields, those are banned in Davidson County if this legislation passes. So the one in Memphis, Elon Musk's, so that would not be able to exist here in Nashville. That's correct. I think the one in Memphis is around one and a half million square feet. That would be banned in Davidson County if this legislation passes. Okay. other large data centers under 500,000 square feet, we impose some common sense rules and regulations around them to take some of the main restrictions. First, they're defined to be an industrial use and only allowed in industrial areas. That means they're banned in residential areas, in commercial areas, and agricultural areas, but only can go into a defined industrial area.

Second, they have to get what's called a special exemption from the Board of Zoning Appeals. That means they have to go in front of the Board of Zoning Appeals as well as have a public hearing. Give up. community and the public the opportunity to get involved to be informed about what's happening and impose some public oversight and transparency around the process we also prohibit them from being located near things like residences daycare schools and and the zoo to make sure we're not putting these types of heavy industrial uses right next to neighborhoods and other sensitive uses like the zoo we also impose some common sense rules around how they can be operated. They're required to use what's called a closed loop water system, which means they're not continually drawing more water out of the system and they're not pumping contaminated water back into it, but have to recycle an initial load of water on site. We also prohibit the use of emissions causing power generation. A big problem that we've seen elsewhere in Memphis and across the country is data centers using gas turbines to power themselves. And those are a problem for a variety of reasons. They cause an enormous amount of air pollution. They're loud. They cause an enormous amount of heat to their surrounding area. So we prohibit that and would require any on-site power generation to be renewable energy like solar. Can you give us an example, though, of an industrial area in Nashville? I represent District 20 here in West Nashville. We have an industrial park on the northwest corner of our district in the Cockrell Bend area, which has a lot of heavy industry in it. So an area like that, which is already zoned industrial, would be the only types of places that these could be located. They wouldn't be allowed to be in neighborhoods. They wouldn't allow to be in shopping areas where a community may have a commercial zoned property and was hopeful to get a restaurant or a daycare or something like that. Under our current rules, they could put a data center there instead. So we prohibit that and make sure that's not the case that these are only allowed to go into industrial areas and not into neighborhoods. But by putting size restrictions on data centers, does that leave the door open to someone building three smaller facilities rather than one large one? I don't think that's the case. No. I think a lot of times people try to find the data center developer, we'll try to find a site which fits what they want to build. So if Elon Musk wants to build a 1.5 million square foot data center, they're going to find a location which can accommodate a 1.5 million square foot data center, not try to fit the data center into an existing city's rules. So I think this will be an effective way to prohibit the very worst types of data centers that we've seen in Tennessee and across the country. What's your take on council member Courtney Johnson's approach to banning all data centers? I think she's proposed what's called a moratorium. And a moratorium is a temporary ban on data centers until we can propose some rules and regulations, which is what we've done with the piece of legislation that I've filed. I think moratoriums can be an attractive idea, but they sound...

too good to be true and can carry a lot of risks in a way that may undermine effective regulation of the industry. We've seen both here in Tennessee and other places in Texas, for example, cities have passed. temporary moratorium banning every type of data center outright, Hill County, Texas, for example, against the advice of their city's attorneys, the city opposed a moratorium on all data centers rather than using effective permanent regulation of them like we've seen. The data center developer sued the county. and one, and the city was forced to rescind their rules governing data centers. And so they ended up in a worse position than they started with. And so I think it's important that we have some very common sense rules and regulations on it and do in a way that's on sound legal authority and provides permanent protections for all of Davidson County. Would any of this apply retroactively to existing data centers in our city? Under state law, existing sites are grandfathered in. That's something our state has preempted us from doing. Ah, yes. This would apply on a go-forward basis to new proposals. The Nashville Zoo has become a major focal point in this debate. What have you heard directly from zoo officials, nearby residents that stands out to you? I've heard from a lot of residents nearby the zoo, as well as across the county, who are really concerned about the effect that this would have on the zoo and the surrounding community. The noise that these generates can be enormously disturbing to animals there, the air pollution. that data centers can bring can be severe. And it's also important to note that the zoo is located in a very vibrant and very diverse community and that the residents there don't want this for themselves either. So it's important that we both protect the neighbors there as well as the lovely animals at the National Zoo. What does it tell you that folks became outraged over the center near the zoo and not about any of the other centers already in our neighborhoods? I can't speak for other people. I think I love animals as much as everybody else. I love my dog very much. And I think people are concerned about animals. They're not able to. advocate for themselves and they require us to advocate on their behalf. But like I said, it's important to note that the data center by the zoo, it's right next to the zoo, but it's also in the middle of a very thriving and diverse community. And so it's important that we, all of us, people as well as our four-legged friends are provided some protections from some of the negative effects that we've seen elsewhere. But can your legislation get done in time to prevent this center being built? It's going to be a race to the finish. My understanding is that this data center near the zoo has already applied for their permits, and there's some question about whether their permits are sufficient or not. If they're denied, then there's a good chance that our legislation will go forward and take effect first, which would prohibit the proposal that they've had from going forward. But it's going to be a race to the finish to see if they can get their permits improved before we can get our rules and regulations in place first.

But we've all seen the petition that's been going around. From your standpoint, as a council member, do petitions work? I think they're useful. I think elected officials in the council and elsewhere are responsive. They want to make their constituents heard. We want to advocate for their voices. So I encourage anybody that has a view on this to reach out to their council member, reach out to the mayor, and make your voice heard. The proposed data center at Fisk University is a very different conversation than the one happening near the Nashville Zoo. FISC has framed its proposed $400 million innovation and data center as a key part of its broader quantum leap campus transformation plan, saying it will support AI education, research, and workforce development. Do you view that project differently than other proposed data centers in Nashville? My understanding of the proposal at FISC is that they don't have a concrete proposal in hand to build a data center there so much as a request that one be developed there. And so we'd have to wait and see what the exact details of it are. But if our legislation passes and it would ensure that whatever does take place there would have to comply with strict rules and environmental protections as well as make sure that the community is involved in the conversation and has the opportunity to share their views on the proposal. All right. Let's pretend. If a developer came to you tomorrow with a proposal that checked all the boxes, where would you actually want to see a data center built? The contours of our legislation make that clear that we don't want these near neighborhoods. We don't want them near the zoo. We don't want them next to our daycares, schools and uses like that. The heavy industrial types, 500,000 square feet ones, have no place in Davidson County. I don't think there's any area that's appropriate for them. If there's one that was reasonable in an industrial area that complies with our strict air and water processes of the community is involved in it, it's something that... the community could consider, but I don't see there being a place for them, at least in our district here in less Nashville. What are the benefits of having a data center in Middle Tennessee? That's unclear. I don't see data centers bringing any benefit to the communities in which they're located in. They can cause a significant amount of pollution. They don't bring a lot of jobs. Sometimes they'll market themselves as bringing 20 jobs. A lot of times those are temporary construction jobs or they're just security guards that work on site. They're not a very labor-intensive use. They don't provide jobs to the surrounding community and they cause it. an enormous amount of negative externalities in the form of air pollution, noise pollution, light pollution, strains on water infrastructure, strains on electrical grids. So I don't see them as bringing a significant benefit to the communities in which they're located. So for the 27 data centers that already exist here, have there already been any ramifications that we've heard of from residents? Or I know nationally, we've seen Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, you know, there's a viral video going around of her holding.

dirty contaminated well water from a county in Georgia. Have we heard of anything like that here in Tennessee? Well, in Tennessee, we've seen the Colossus AI Data Center in Memphis bring enormous harm with the surrounding community. I think the gas turbine generators that they're using to power the facility in Memphis is causing an enormous amount of air pollution to the surrounding communities with unsurprisingly detrimental health effects. Nashville so far has been spared to the worst of this. And so I think it's important that we get in front of these rather than waiting until after it's already a problem. Brolin, you're obviously a very analytical kind of guy, but as you're thinking about these data centers and hearing people tell us, it's the wave of the future and we just have to embrace it, how does that make you feel? I don't think that people have to accept as inevitable that data centers are going to be located in our communities. I think that's simply false. The idea that there's nothing we can do is a refrain that we commonly hear from politicians as an excuse for doing nothing. And it's simply false. Communities do not have to accept that data centers are inevitable. We do not have to accept them in our neighborhoods. Middle Tennessee is considered a booming area for data center development, as we've reported alongside WPLN and several other outlets. Are we all ready too late? I don't think so. I think if we can get our legislation passed in a timely manner, like it looks like we will, we'll be able to get in front of us and take a proactive approach on imposing these common sense, environmental and community protections at the front end, rather than doing it after the fact, after there's already a problem in trying to play catch-up. Maybe this is the first time you're hearing about this folks at home. But what's next then? What votes, what hearings, and then public comment opportunities for people? So if people wish to come out and make their voice heard, the first opportunity at the Metro Council will be when this bill is on its second reading on July 7th. It will be a public hearing and residents will be invited to speak and share their views on the proposal. There's a feeling among a lot of Nashville residents that things that are happening to us are out of our control, especially coming from the state, but also within our city. How does this play into that? I think people are right to be concerned about this. And the response too often from elected officials is there's nothing we can do. It's impossible to fix this problem. And it's not. Nashvilleians have the opportunity to get in front of this, to take a proactive approach, to oppose common sense rules, environmental protections, and make sure that the public has a voice on considering these proposals. The idea that there's nothing we can do is false. We have the opportunity to change this if we want to.

This data center proposed by the Nashville Zoo has been truly the talk of the town for the last couple of weeks. I mean, we've even made national news. Do you think that there's a chance to use this as an opportunity to get more of our neighbors involved in other local issues? I think the response and the involvement of the community has been really encouraging and it shows that people have the ability to change outcomes for the better. If we're successful with this legislation and we get it passed in time to... prevent some of the worst of these data centers from going in place. I think it's important that we all just don't go home and pat ourselves on the back. I think it's important to stay involved in city government. A lot of the most important issues that affect your day-to-day life the most are issues that are decided here in Nashville, not at the state capital, not at the federal level, but a lot of them are made here locally. So it's important that people continue to be involved, speak with their neighbors about issues that are important to them, and make sure that your Metro Council member knows it. Send them an email, call them, make sure that they know your thoughts on things. Roland, thank you again for joining us. Thank you very much.

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