Celebrating America’s 250th and Looking Towards an Optimistic Future

This podcast is brought to you by Altana AI. In a fracturing global order, how do we collaborate more, enforce more, and trade more all at the same time. You build an infrastructure of trust. Altana provides it. Compliance verified at the product level. AI powered visibility. Intelligence shared across borders without compromising sovereignty. The future of trade is trust. Altana, the network for trusted trade. Altana.a.a. From the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal, this is Potomac Watch. America marks the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence this weekend, but much of the country seems to be in something of a sour mood, as if there really isn't all that much to celebrate. Why the long faces? And what should we think about the declaration and how its ideas have survived for a quarter? millennium. That's our subject for today in Potomac Watch. I'm Paul Giego, joined by my colleagues who are columnists for the Wall Street Journal, Barton Swain, and Matthew Continetti, and who can think big philosophically. and also about the practical realities of the country today. Welcome, Jets. Neither of you will remember this, but I can speak with some authority because I was alive in 1976 at the 200th anniversary. And there was a sense, actually, at the time, the things were getting better. There was a kind of an optimistic mood taking place. We'd sort of come out of the traumas of Vietnam, Watergate, tumult of the 1960s seemed to be dying down. And things were getting better. There's a little sense of that. Of course, it took until the 1980s to actually get better. But we had some 70s to work out still. But there was a real patriotic spirit in 1976 that I don't detect now. Neither of you can recall that I know, but take my word for it. But what do you think of the mood now, Matt? Well, Paul, I think it's a mixed mood. I think the mood is distinct along generational lines. I mean, we can see that the older you are, the prouder you are, the more likely you are to be extremely proud of being an American, probably the more likely you are to participate in some of the cultural and patriotic events this weekend. I think it's also, of course, a country divided along political and partisan lines and so much of the past 25 years. has been a measure of, well, is your party in power? And if so, you feel good. And if not, you feel in the dumps. And so when we look at some of these polling on patriotism and pride and country, we see that Democrats these days are very down on the United States of America. And a big part of that is, of course, the current Republican presidential administration. So I'd say, like... With most things, America, in a continent-sized country of 330 million some people, it's hard to make generalizations. And I would say that actually...

If you look not even closely, you can see moments of national pride, certainly in the Olympics with the U.S. national hockey team. You can see kind of public eruptions happening like when the Top Gun Maverick movie kind of stormed the box office. American pride is there. It's just often, I think, obscured by the political polarization that characterizes so much of our country today. So do you, I would just, I wonder if. If we political types have somewhat distorted view of how ordinary Americans think, you know, we're often online, we're reading news all the time. I think if you just go out on the street of any ordinary neighborhood, most Americans are proud of the country. I was in the very conservative Columbia, South Carolina, recently walking through. We counted 32 flags out on houses. I was also in the, I think it's fair to say. very liberal, Hudson, Ohio a few weeks ago, and also flags everywhere. I think we have to be careful not to take in too much of the political noise. Yeah, an important point. I will say, in defense of New Yorkers, we fly a flag in front of our cooperative building in Manhattan proudly, and nobody has tried to tear it down. But political classes are in something, you know, kind of a sour mood. I mean, I, do you can see that point to Barton? Because I mean, if you think about the Democrats, people who declare the, they hate Trump. And as Matt says, they have a, maybe it's their partisanship. There's, you see it quoted. I don't even think there's much to celebrate on MS now. They're really not, you know, having a real party over there here in honor of July 4th, for that matter, not CNN either. And, you know, you have intellectuals on the left who say, well, this really isn't even the anniversary of anything of note or the real American founding, because it's really 1619, which was the date the first slaves arrived. So you can see that point. For sure. And one hesitates to make this a left-right issue. But it has to be said that many people on the political left are happy to express pride in the country when someone they approve of is leading it in the White House. I hope that if this 250th celebration were happening during a Democratic administration, certainly those of us on the journal opinion page, we would happily express pride in the country because We understand that it is about the founding principles and what the country has meant to the world and to millions of people who come here for freedom and opportunity and not exclusively about, you know, what policies can we get out of the current government. Does the president himself...

make us proud at any one time. I do think the left since the 60s and 70s really has had a problem in this area and we can get into more of that. If I'm not mistaken, conservatives are much are more consistent in their expressions of patriotism than their opposites. on the other side. One mild objection I have to the current moment is the way President Trump, Matt, has made this like he so often does, so much of this date about his own presidency, rather than going bigger. and talking about the country. You know, I think, though it was 1986 and not 1976, Ronald Reagan captured that emerging public mood with when the statute of liberty had been finally refurbished in New York Harbor, and he went up there and gave a stirring speech. And Gerald Ford in 1976 thought to tap into the broader themes of patriotism that all Americans should be able to believe in. Trump is... kind of makes it a lot of it partisan. And it's certainly about personality rather than the principles. And I think that is a missed opportunity in this semi-quincennial, if you can say that three times fast. I mean, yeah, July 4th is our birthday. And I think that's very important because it's not the form of government we have, the Constitution, which of course is produced in 1787, that we're celebrating right now. We're celebrating our separation. from Great Britain, our formation as a unique people that is expressed in the Declaration of Independence. And what... we should be doing this weekend. I think a lot of Americans will be doing amidst the fireworks and their cookouts will be thinking about the Declaration of Independence. I hope actually reading it. It's not that long. And what you see there is it is basically the operating code of the United States because it sets out the principles of government that have been so successful and have allowed so many human lives to flourish over the past 250 years. And what are those principles? The basic concept. is the concept of equal freedom, that all human beings have equal political rights, not rights to equal things, but equal rights to govern. And none of us is by birth higher than any other of us. And that idea of equal freedom is so powerful that as the historian Gordon Wood wrote so eloquently, the late historian Gordon Wood sadly.

wrote so eloquently, it overturned the world. That was the phrase at the time of the revolution, the world turned upside down because this idea of every individual possessing equal freedom was so radical and so new that it really was the first time this principle was established. I think that's what we need to remember today. And when we do that, we can see how that principle of equal freedom, of course, not perfectly in effect at the time of the founding. But the principle once established, as Abraham Lincoln said, began to unfold over time and continuously expand, taking in more and more people, freeing the slaves, bringing legal equality of black Americans, recognizing the contributions and the rights of women. Over time, that one principle. changed the world for the better, just as America has changed the world for the better. I have been reading these past few weeks, Gordon Wood's great book, The Radicalism of the American Revolution. And it's a wonderful book. What he makes clear and just persuasively through his storytelling and history, recording history, is just how those principles, all men are created equal, and then the ability to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Unleashed in the country, the freedom that... essentially built it. And it took a long time through the Civil War to be able to realize and then Jim Crow, breaking Jim Crow to be able to realize those principles and practice. But their creation and the degree to which Americans identified with them, Barton, was what allowed the United States to become as prosperous as it has been and a beacon. that it has been for human liberty. One of the disturbing, you mentioned 1619 and this attitude that, well, because there were slavery at the founding and the slave trade was still very much going on, the nation was sort of born in iniquity, then it can never be redeemed. And if you believe that, and many people do believe that, then you reject. I think the premise of the whole civil rights movement, which up until now has been, you know, the pride of liberals, rightly so called. Martin Luther King believed that the declaration was a promissory note. I think he used that phrase, a promise that the freedom expressed in this document will be fulfilled completely at a later time. And so I think it's a real tragedy to see this attitude grow in certain circles. I think it's both politically dangerous, and it's just morally a tragedy. All right, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to talk more about the Declaration of Independence and its relevance for today when we come back.

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There's a lot of bloodshed and retribution, and then they end in Thermidor. See the French, see the Russians, see the Chinese communists. You know, our revolution was different, and it was different because I think the founders that... came together, came out of a unique era of Scottish Enlightenment. They were extraordinary men. You write about this in your column this week. There was a kind of a remarkable accumulation of judgment, learning, and principles. The founder shared a Christian worldview. I understand there's debate about who believe what. But they all sort of shared in a Judeo-Christian outlook. on the world and part of what that meant was that um the their revolution would not be um the overthrowing the unjust overthrowing and bloody um destruction of a regime they were simply asking for the rights of englishmen the rights that were supposedly guaranteed them through the existing British Constitution. And seeing those rights weren't available to them, they took it upon themselves to establish a new government. And they did so in the most orderly possible way. There had to be violent. The war made that necessary. idea of liberty was ordered liberty. It was not just freedom in the abstract, as Burke would have said earlier. So it was just a remarkable achievement in so many ways. And I would echo Matt's recommendation for, I've told several people to watch that speech of Clarence Thomas. Sadly, the headline that made the rounds after that speech was that he attacked progressivism. Which that is just a sad, in no way, a summarization of what that speech was about. Progressivism, in his sense, was early 20th century progressivism, that of Woodrow Wilson and others, which was really a departure from constitutional principles. So a good recommendation. Well, I'm proud to say, guys, we actually ran that good chunk of that speech in the Wall Street Journal op-ed at the time. And it had a wide readership people seem to take to it. We are going to take another break. And when we come back, we'll talk about some of the challenges to making the 250th anniversary stretch out to, oh, say, 300 when we come back. This podcast is brought to you by Altana AI. Altana's AI brings governments and businesses into one trusted network, so compliance gets proven, enforcement gets smarter, and goods move faster across borders. Learn more at altana.a.a.a.

Don't forget, you can reach the latest episode of Potomac Watch anytime. Just ask your smart speaker, play the opinion Potomac Watch podcast. That is, play the opinion, Potomac Watch podcast. From the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal, this is Potomac Watch. Welcome back. I'm Paul as you go here on the Daily podcast of the Wall Street Journal Opinion Pages, Potomac Watch, and I'm here with Matt Continetti and Barton Swain. I take both of you think, as I do, that we have actually preserved and lived by the principles of the declaration and the founding overall pretty well, imperfectly, obviously, but generally speaking, 250 years. Not bad. Pretty good tenure by any standards in the annals of men. What about the next 50? I mean, as you look at America at 250, what are the threats to continuing to do this for another 50? Do you want to start, Matt? If you just take kind of an assets and liabilities framework, it's clear that... We have liabilities, mainly our massive public debt. And so if you think about the history of republics over time, you're absolutely right, Paul. Ours is one of the longer lived. And that's something that we should be proud of. All these republics get into trouble when they accumulate massive public debts that they then either have to raise taxes to finance or they try to inflate away and debase the currency. And that is, of course, something that we need to avoid. Unfortunately, the political will. to address the main drivers of our debt, our entitlement programs, is non-existent. And so when I look at in the near term, I'm really trying to find the voices who will cast attention on our debt and remind people, we know what the solutions are, but remind people that there are ways to fix this problem without raising taxes dramatically and thus squelching growth. I'd say there's one other major concern I have, and that is America continues to be the most powerful nation in the world where the richest nation in the world, we are leading in the most advanced technology in the world, which is artificial intelligence. Our military is unsurpassed. It's after the war that we have problems, not during the war. But I worry about the character-forming institutions that shape the next generation. When you go back and you look at the framers and Barden talks about this, their worldview, when you specifically read George Washington's farewell address, I'll just add that to the pile, a remarkable document. You know, Washington says that we can't entertain the notion. that this republic will function without religion and public morality. That we need to have some character in order to uphold the experiment in self-government that was initiated in 1776. And so when I look at the institutions that form people, when I look at the state of the American family, when I look at the state of the American church, when I look at...

the abysmal state of our schools, I do worry. And I think for conservative reformers, that is the real field that we need to be paying attention to. How do we strengthen families? How do we at least free churches from any government-imposed burdens that are preventing their growth, gaining adherence? And then, of course, which should be in attention to politics, how do we improve our schools, how do we increase the choices of schools so that not only do we produce citizens, of good character, but that we can know that the lines of transmission for American patriotism are strong and well-functioning. Barton, I would subscribe to all of that. How about you? I've been thinking a lot lately about just that. It's not a new thought. What do we do about the disaffection of the young? Irving Crystal wrote some brilliant essays in the 1970s for the Wall Street Journal. in fact, many of them. One of them was called When Virtue Loses All Her Loveliness. And it's available online. That's another reading recommendation for our readers. You can subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and get into our archives, by the way, if you want to do that. That's right. That's right. I recommend that. Crystal wondered why young people rooting for the Viacong. Why would they cheer murderous thugs like Che Guevara? why would they speak disdainfully about their own country? Obviously, this is a very, very complicated problem, but it's interesting that it goes much further back than, you know, the 1619 project of New York Times. It's an old problem now, and there's no easy answer. But plainly, part of the answer has got to be about education. One of the great virtues of a democratic republic like ours is that we are capable of self-criticism and self-correction. Self-criticism has become the overriding obsession in education curricula today. I can think of a thousand examples. Two of my daughters went through public school, and I can't tell you the number of works that they had to read, including, you know, ones by Ta Nahisi Coates and others, about how much of a dump our country is. There's no reason for this. It's corrosive to an entire generation's appreciation. for their own country. However, I think that there have been encouraging signs recently with the establishment of a lot of self-contained schools within large universities that teach the virtues of the American political tradition and of capitalism. We've seen them established at UNC Chapel Hill, at the University of Texas, University of Florida, many other places. Some institutions have been revamped from top to bottom like the new College of Florida. And that tells me that there's a critical mass of people with influence and money to make an effort to reverse the trend towards disaffection. and frankly ignorance of the country's founding principles.

There's a lot of worrying signs, but some hopeful ones too. To your point about the young, you can read Tennessee Coates, as I have. You can read Howard Zinn's anti-history of the United States, but you can only read them intelligently and with discernment if you actually have learned in the first place what... the founding principles of America are and how the American government works and what it was intended, how it was intended to work. And that's the failure at even the most basic level that we have in K through 12 education these days. They simply people, I mean, half of the students who graduate, you can use that word, can't read well enough to understand those kinds of principles or do even middle school math. which is what we hear from employers all over. And so that has got to be a major project as well as the universities. This gets to the point about whether or not we can produce leaders who are able to lead the country in the reforming direction that will be required, if not at the present moment, will certainly be required. to address the crises that will emerge in the future, whether those are foreign threats, internal decline through the piling up of debts, which are now debt held by the public at 100% of the economy. Unheard of, except for the post-World War II period, the brief period after World War II, I should add. It came down very fast. Can we reform the welfare state? I don't know. One cause for me of optimism is, I think Barton's right about some of those impulses and reforms in higher education, but one cause for optimism of me is just looking over the last decade, we've had something of a stress test for our institutions. And despite the claims about the threats to democracy, I think it's held up pretty well, those institutions by and large. Not everybody. I think the press is in many ways, the fourth of state, if you will, is performed abysmally by and large. And the Congress certainly does need a lot of work. The presidents have tried to push and push and push beyond the limits of their authority. But the courts, the courts are still there. and particularly this Supreme Court, which I think is doing a couple of things in its over the last several years, which I think are hugely significant, was one is restore the proper understanding of the separation of powers, the checks and balances in the Constitution, and two, buttress the Bill of Rights so that those rights mean something. Yes, and also, of course, in recent terms, the court has reinforced the colorblind Constitution. which is hugely important. 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment. To go against the idea we can kind of slice and dice our society according to our physical characteristics. This has been very important. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that the structure of government that the founders...

created in order to enact the principles of the declaration is it's the oldest constitution in the world and it's the most successful by far and it's still it's still working that one key to this paul and i think maybe addresses this idea of what we find the leaders is founders were very smart to insist on regular and frequent elections It's not a parliamentary system where, you know, sure, you can toss aside a prime minister like the British seem to do every other week, but you're not actually going to have an election for some time as long as the majority holds. We have election days every two years, and we have our presidential elections every four years. And that... produces churn in our political system. Sometimes that churn leads to a loss of institutional memory, which is, I think, one of the major problems afflicting the Congress. But at the other time, it allows the talent to rise. And if you think about American stories, one way to put the American story is talent rising, not just... in politics or in government, but of course in our economy and in our technology and in our innovation. And so when you ask me if I'm feeling optimistic, I say, look at what our talent is up to, not just in Silicon Valley, but these new weapons companies, these new drones builders who are going outside the ambit of the prime defense contractors and creating just remarkable edge technology to help defend America and doing it. patriotically, by the way. So that's where I'm most optimistic is in our continued ability to find talent and enjoy the gifts that these great minds of the stone. Undersers to my mind at that point, the freedom side of the declarations, equal freedom principle, Barton, giving you the last word. Well, I'm just going to back up what you say about the courts. I had an opportunity to read a book about the... the Supreme Court during the Roosevelt era, Franklin Roosevelt era. Wow, not impressive. No, they rolled over. No, the opinions were just not intellectually impressive. And also just the ethical behavior. You know, you had justices going on vacation with the president and things like this in seeming violation of separation of powers. But today's court is just vastly, even the liberals on the court, I'll say, or at least one of them, is far more impressive than we've seen in past generations. So I'm optimistic for many reasons, that among them. All right, Matt Contenetti and Barton Swam, thank you. you very much for coming in for this unusual Potomac Watch, still enjoyable, and I hope our listeners enjoyed it as well. And I would just say, happy birthday to all of us. Happy birthday to America, 250 years and counting. Not bad. Not bad. Thank you for listening. We're here every day on Potomac Watch.

This podcast is brought to you by Altana AI. In a fracturing global order, how do we collaborate more, enforce more, and trade more all at the same time. You build an infrastructure of trust. Altana provides it. Compliance verified at the product level. AI powered visibility. Intelligence shared across borders without compromising sovereignty. The future of trade is trust. Altana, the network for trusted trade. Altana.a.a.