Is the embargo working?

Your education is more than a path to a degree. At Regent University, it's an important step in God's plan for your career. It's where you'll be equipped to lead and serve with purpose. It's where 40,000 graduates have prepared to fulfill their callings, and so can you. Choose a top ringed program from over 150 areas of study, on campus or online, and watch what God will do. Learn more at regent.edu. That's regent.edu. Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there. And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Hugh for Hillsdale.com, or just Google, Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Richard Goldberg is a senior advisor at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy. He's one of those people actually knows what he's talking about on Iran. Richard, I want to start with this story from Iran International. Iran's central bank warns economy may take 12 years to rebuild after the war. How much credibility did you give this report? Well, it probably has a good deal of credibility. I mean, I think our own back of the envelope has been in the hundreds of billions of dollars of damage done to the economy already on our side. Now, obviously, the Iranians for their own propaganda might want to try to put out a big number because they've supposedly asked for some sort of reparation payments and negotiations. But at the same time, Iran International usually gets a hold of some pretty good information, some good intel leaks. And so I think if you match that with what they had also reported a few weeks ago of President Peschke and sending almost a memo to these IRGC officials who've taken charge of the country saying, we can't hold out much longer. The whole economy is on the verge of collapse. It does paint a much more dire picture of what's going on inside the country for this Rump regime than what they would lead us to believe through their cognitive warfare. Now, Richard, the one thing that makes me uneasy is I used to have friends who knew about the South African regime before it gave way, and they could have gone to the mattresses. They could have kept their nukes. They could have kept their bank accounts. The Iranian regime has got a lot of money stowed away overseas in shadow accounts and in banking, even in the UAE and Dubai. Do we have any plan to cut them off from that money if they don't come to the table? I think your question couldn't be more timely. It would appear what the administration is doing right now, combined with the blockade on the naval waters, is going from Operation Epic Fury to Operation Economic Fury. And so a letter apparently was sent just today to the UAE, to Oman, to Hong Kong, and to China, and all their banks saying, we know that there's shadow banking. We know you may be holding onto or processing some sort of Iranian funds. We are watching. We are now on warning. We are going to use the full maximum pressure of our sanctions and cut you off from the United States the minute we have evidence that you are handling their funds. Stop it right now. Freeze them in place. We'll see if that has a big impact. That was a big warning letter just sent out in the last few hours. And then on top of that, obviously, the lack of imports coming into the country. We focus a lot on the export cutoff of oil, obviously, in other exports where they would get revenue.

but they can't import either. And so that's also going to create a major balance of payments crisis. The prices inside the country are going to skyrocket, hyperinflation, going through the roof, even where it already is at. The banks, which were already teetering back in January we know about, will have even more pressure on them. And gasoline will not be coming into the country, something that increasingly last year they had to rely on imports for, and it actually just cut subsidies on at the end of last year. So, Richard, I stayed up late Saturday night waiting for the vice president to come out and make a statement. Very, very relieved when it turned out to be Reckovic 2.0 and not Munich. Are you feeling good right now about where Team Trump is vis-a-vis the remnants of this regime? I am. If you put aside the cognitive warfare piece that this Rump regime is very good at, and unfortunately, they have a lot of nodes throughout the United States that can echo and their propaganda, unnamed sources suddenly in the Wall Street Journal or Axios, wherever it is, and they can push this out onto social media, and you believe that we're losing. Oh, my gosh, we're losing. How does this possible? I think the more accurate assessment is likely what the president sees. which is a rump regime that has no ability to defend the country anymore, is hanging onto remnant offensive capabilities to keep that propaganda going, is on the verge of an economic collapse potentially if you push them over the edge. So I don't think he would be inclined to say, hey, I'm going to give you back the JCPOA after I've brought you to the brink of collapse. But at the same time, we probably have a little bit of deficiency in the full intel picture because a lot of people are dead. A lot of other people are hiding. The communication is broken down. And actually having a delegation come to Islamabad and watching them, how they prepared, who was there, who seems to be the leader, who's in charge, who do they have to report to when they go back to Tehran? The fact that the vice president said they couldn't make a decision, they had to go back and talk to somebody. the Supreme Leader or somebody in his interview that you just played. So I think we're learning a lot more about the dysfunction inside. Now the bombs have stopped dropping for the moment in the ceasefire. The Iranian side's probably learning a lot more about the devastation that they have actually suffered. And now with the U.S. Navy through the strait alongside a blockade and the crackdown on the banks, this is a lot of leverage for the President of the United States to get what he wants at the table. And Richard, a key player who's not at the table but is in the background is the People's Republic of China. What did they want to see happen, do you think? What is at least acceptable for them to see happen? Well, two things I would say. First of all, the Chinese and the Russians have not come to the rescue of the remnant regime. There's a lot of unnamed sources. Oh, there might be a shipment of radar coming or of air defense or precursor chemicals for fuel. None of that has actually materialized. And from a substantive contribution to saving the regime from the devastation of Epic Fury, nothing actually was there. So whatever they thought they were going to rely on from their agreements with the Chinese, with the Russians, didn't come to fruition.

Now, the Chinese obviously have sort of a double-edged sword here. On the one side, They depend on all of the oil and petrochemicals and other imports out of the Gulf, not just Iran, which is 1.5 to 2 million barrels per day of a list of oil exports that they're getting, plus the petrochemicals, but also Saudi Arabia, the UAE, all the players that you would think of, they're importing massive more amounts for their own economy from the Gulf. They can't actually long-term sustain the idea of the Strait of Hormuz being shut down or the Iranian somehow being in control of their fate and death. destiny. At the same time, they have been stockpiling for years now with the cheap discounted sanction oil from Iran, from Russia, from Venezuela, and had some sort of runway to try to see if the Iranians could hold on. Could we lose control? Could this turn out in their favor where we lose control of the Strait of Hormuz? Now that we have transitioned from Epic Fury to Economic Fury, and we're imposing our will potentially on the imports and exports out of Iran, the Chinese are now seeing their fate may be in our hands. They're still going to need the oil to come out of the Strait of Hormuz. They still need stability to be restored, but we are now setting the terms. And so if we're able to actually keep this blockade in place, actually be able to dictate the future of the Strait of of Hormuz. This is not a good future for the Chinese. They stand to benefit from us opening the strait and bringing them their own oil out from Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Gulf. But they will long term, and I think they know this, have a strategic loss in all they've invested in in Tehran. Okay, one minute, Richard. The Friends of Iran... in any American media or people who, at least not enemies of Iran, are spinning the Lebanon situation wildly. We have one minute. What do you understand the situation in Lebanon to be? Well, Hezbo obviously is the OG of the terrorist proxies of the regime in Tehran, and they got into the fight on order of Tehran in the middle of Epic Fury, and they started launching their missiles and their drones and their rockets at the state of Israel, under cover of ceasefire for the last couple of years, since the end of the Biden administration, when they pushed the Israelis into a ceasefire in Lebanon. Obviously, Iran has been trying to rebuild Hezbollah. The Israelis have incredible intelligence. It appears a massive operation to neutralize hundreds of operatives and officials very quickly. The regime would like to see Hezbollah survive. I don't think the United States wants to see that happen. Israel doesn't want to see that happen. And the U.S. is now on Israel's side working with the government of Lebanon, bringing them to the U.S. to say, work with us to take back your country. We're not giving Lebanon back to Iran. I hope you are right.

Goldberg, thank you for joining me from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That music means David Drucker's in the House. David is the chief political correspondent for the dispatch. He's also a columnist for Bloomberg. David, you and I are Californians, though we have both fled the state. California lost Eric Swalwell this week from the ticket and from their delegation. Now, ever since Fang Fang, I've known he was not to be trusted, but I just thought he was an average knucklehead. I didn't know he was a predator. Had you heard whispers that he was a predator? I mean, nothing credible. I mean, nothing that made me feel the need to look into it. The thing about Hugh, the thing about being a reporter in Washington is like I received a rumor of just about everybody in public life at one time or another. And so that's the sort of thing that just happens. So like you, I was surprised. I mean, look, I always thought Eric Swalwell was punching above his weight in that he seemed like an effective member of the House of Representatives for what. his Democratic constituents wanted out of him. But, you know, I never saw him as presidential material. He ran for president in 2024 briefly, or 2020, one of those. And when he emerged as a top contender for governor in California, I was somewhat surprised. But, you know, talking to some people back there, you know, Democratic... voters who, you know, really don't, I mean, Democratic voters don't like Trump, but in California, it's like ratcheted up times 10. They liked Eric Swalwell because he was so combative versus Trump, so it makes sense in retrospect. But no, no inkling of this. Okay, let's talk about that race. Two people make it through. It's a jungle primary. Republicans are going to hope, and Steve Hilton and the sheriff of San Bernardino, whose name I can't recall, Chad Bianco, make it through. I'm thinking, God forbid, but I'm thinking Katie Porter is the one who bounces up. Is there any way Antonio Villegroza or anybody else can catch Katie Porter at this point? Well, you know, the latest polling I've seen has shown Tom Steyerway up there because he's basically, you know, spending the entire GDP of six countries to try and get elected. But it might work in this case. California is not big on retail politics. You know, you and I are both from there. It's not big on retail politics. It's a huge state. And it's all about advertising. And so it kind of makes sense that this is the kind of campaign Tom Steyer could finally win with all of his money. And I wonder if instead of Katie Porter, some other Democrat can break loose and either give Tom Steyer a run for his money or escape into the top two with Tom Steyer. But, you know, we're going to have to see what happens.

You know, Dave, one thing you know and I know from our years and decades in California, there are two organizations that matter. The SEIU Service Employees International Union and the California Teachers Association. And they have the troops. They've got the infantry. They can seize an old ground. They can turn in the absentees that are left lying around. I'm not saying me cheat. I'm just saying they're very good at ballot collecting, which is legal in California. Have you seen any indication that either of them has thrown their weight one way or the other? I haven't, but, you know, I haven't followed this race too closely, just with so much else to follow. And in California, it just seems so predictable. But, you know, now it's at least interesting in that Democrats were really in a bind there. because they had so many candidates who were convinced that two of them would get into the second round, if you will, that's going to be held on Election Day in November, that they weren't worried about clogging the drain there and allowing two Republicans to slip through instead. There was a real concern for a while, but nobody would get out of the way. So Smallwell's bad behavior solves that problem for them. And I suspect at some point the players will start to drift in the direction of somebody. I think what they're waiting to see is, you know, who really emerges as that second-tier Democrat or that second Democrat to go catch up to Tom Steyer now. Or, you know, let's see if the polling in the next couple of weeks totally turns upside down and looks differently. Katie Porter's problem is that she's not likable. She doesn't handle the press well. And she's just not the kind of candidate that people warm to. There's no charm there. And that's just a big problem for her. Yeah, domestic violence doesn't go over well with people. And dumping, what was it, potatoes on her ex-husband's head. I'm not sure what the story was. I'll have to check it out. But she's not a likable person. She was my congresswoman for a while back in the old day. She replaced eventually Mimi Walters, who replaced John Campbell back in the days when I lived in Orange County. Let me ask you about Tom Steyer, though. I have very little experience with it, other than the fact, I believe his campaign misled the Nixon Library when they wanted to cut an ad there. They said they just wanted to use the backdrop. And as I recall, they actually slammed Nixon, so it was kind of sneaky, disgusting. What's your opinion of Tom Steyer? Look, he's just, he's a vanity candidate. Look, he's been very successful in business. So let me give him his due. The guy's made a lot of money. It's been very successful. And like a lot of successful people. They somehow decide the best thing they can do with all their money is wasted on a campaign. And so he spent a lot of money running for president, didn't get anywhere. And I mean a lot of money. And now he's spending a lot of money in California running for governor. Now the thing he has going from California in this race is Californians tend to elect boring, bland.

you know, non-charismatic people as their chief executive. I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ronald Reagan, and I suppose Pat Brown notwithstanding, and now I'm really reaching into the way back, you know, we can point to a number of governors, Jerry Brown, Pat Brown's son, not very charismatic, George Duke Magian. Pete Wilson was fiery, but it's not like he brought the house down. and so on and so forth. So this is sort of a campaign that's made for him. And again, particularly because it's going to be all about advertising, because California is just, I'm sure Canada's are doing town halls and stuff, but it's not the kind of, it's not like a New Hampshire or Georgia or Michigan. You can name some median-sized states where retail is a big deal. I'm waiting to see SCIU and the teachers. Last question. We have a new story at the Atlantic today. Joe Biden really wanted to pick Gretchen Whitmer to be his vice president, but Black Lives Matter made him pick Kamala Harris. That's nonsense. He picked Kamala Harris, but is this just the beginning of puffery for Gretchen Whitmer? Well, I don't know. I actually, you know, look, Elaine Godfrey is a really good reporter, I think. And I haven't read her story yet, but to me it was very intriguing because I think what is true is that Gretchen Whitmer was a much talked about heavyweight and presumed future presidential candidate. And she's not approaching 2028 like any of her colleagues, right? Governor Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, Governor J.B. Pritzker in Illinois. I mean, she's really just taken a... She's kind of established more of a low profile in her last term here and really spent a lot of time trying to get along with the White House and things like that. And it's great politics in Michigan, which is now a quintessential swing state. But she's not doing the kinds of things that would suggest he's interested in running for president. So I want to read the story. before I comment on it, but I do think she, you know, was a major and could still be a major rising Democratic figure, and the fact that she's not really little... We shall say... I wouldn't just say that things went wrong. I also think things went right. We made a lot of progress, but we also made very clear, and I think this is part of the progress we made, what the terms where the United States could make some accommodation, what terms we were flexible on, and what things we absolutely needed to see in order for the President of the United States to feel like he was getting a good deal. Morning glory, and in Grace, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That was Vice President JD Vance last night on my guest, Brett Baer's program, special report. I'll be joining Brett tonight on the panel. Brett, I'm going to go to your interview with the Vice President in just a moment, but first you're a master's guy. How did you enjoy the tournament?

Oh, it's fantastic. You know, I went down with my son Wednesday and then the first round on Thursday, and there's nothing like it, you know, tradition unlike any other. And I thought it was fantastic, the drama and Rory fighting and losing, you know, on Saturday and then fighting back. And I just thought it was a great, great tournament. And I'm happy that he repeated. That's a tough thing to do. He is a worthy champion. You know, more of my people are buried in St. Field, Northern Ireland, and County Down than there are here in the state. So I always root for Rory. But he's getting up there, and Schuffler was on fire. Did you follow Scottie at all on the first couple of days when he wasn't on fire? Yeah, yeah, and I was surprised that he wasn't at the beginning, but he always seems to be there in the end. And, you know, Justin Rose was there, as he has been. So there was a lot of people knocking on the door. I played in the 18T at Pebble Beach a number of years with Russell Henley, and so I was kind of pulling for him, and he did well, finished third, and he at one point had a share of the lead on the back line. Last golf question, Brett. I do not have a good fix on Justin Rose. He falls into that period of time when I'm not really paying much attention to golf. I'm doing other stuff. And he's 45 years old, but he's getting up there to be as competitive as he is. Does he have a reputation on the tour? Because he always looks so grim face, but then someone on the one of the announcers said he's one of the best light guys on the tour. Oh, everybody loves him. He's a huge, huge favorite down there in Augusta. And if he had won, he would have been a very popular champion. You know, he's finished second three times, twice in the playoff. And now, you know, he was up the leaderboard this time. So he would be a popular champion, and he's obviously won the U.S. Open, and he's a big factor in the Ryder Cup. So, yeah, he still got it. He would be the oldest since Jack Nicholas in 86 if he did win a master. I don't know if you're allowed to answer this, but if you are allowed to answer it, and if you have played Augusta, what's the best round you've shot? played Augusta. I've been fortunate enough to play Augusta, and I believe it or not, shot even par. Now, different T-box. Well, yeah. That's true. I think we should lead with that. All right, Brett, let's go to last night. I have played almost every major excerpt of your interview with the vice president. Today we get a story from Iran International that Iran's central bank has warned the economy may take 12 years to rebuild after the war. They're looking at inflation of possibly 180 percent unless the ports reopen really quickly.

Do you get the sense that the vice president is in the catbird seat or the president? I do think that the leverage is increasing, and it seems like at least the administration is saying that they think there will be more in-person talks in Islamabad in coming days. Vice President couldn't put in that down in the interview last night. But between us and the rest of your listeners, we have had outreach with the Iranians, and we've been close to get any Iranian foreign minister on the show. and may be able to do that tomorrow. So it seems like they want to send a message as well, and whether that tracks with getting back to the negotiating table, we'll see. Well, you have had the four administration before. He's very, he's Sharif-like in his eloquence and is a terrific communicator. Do we know, did you pick up in prepping for interviewing with the vice president? Who is really running the play? I know we've got the story of the five guys, but. The political people don't really run that place. It's the generals. Do we have any sense of who the foreign minister speaks for? Yeah. That's one of the problems, and you heard that in the vice president's remarks that they had to go back and kind of get approval. It sounds like the IRGC commanders have a lot of power and that the other politicals do not, but we'll have to see if they do a deal, they're doing a deal as a country. And, you know, they'd have to live up to it, which the Iranians don't have a great track record of. Now, the vice president said, we have to get the nuclear dust using President Trump's term. That's a month long, very careful, possibly killing the people who hit the wrong stone and glass and irradiating them, sort of excavation. Can you imagine, Brett, a detailed agreement that would allow us to supervise or superintend that extraction? It would have to be structured probably through the IAEA, and it would be very complex. In the meantime, you know, the intel folks, I'd talk to say, you know, as the president has said publicly, they have a 24-7 eye on the sky on where they know it to be and making sure that it's not touched or disrupted in the current state. Now, you know, as well as I do, one of the greatest critiques of the JCPOA was that the inspections it allowed for were not anytime, anywhere, no notice, knock, knock inspections. They were you had to call up and schedule, and they could decline and they put off limits, large military bases. Do you get the sense from the vice president that any deal with us has to be anytime, anywhere, no knock inspections? Yes. I think there's stories about,

The proposals of when they couldn't bridge, the U.S. was at 20 years, and the Iranians were at 5. You know, I think you're going to end up at 15 or something, but I think that the inspection part of it was much more rigorous than JCPO. Yeah, question would be, why would we even allow them to enrich, Brett? To me, I heard that when he said 20, 20 goes by in a hurry. It won't be my problem. Might be your problem, but it won't be my problem. Why 20 and not never? That's a good question. You know, if enrichment is to enrich to a certain point, you know, we believed to them before where they said that they were at 20% or medical grade even lower. But, you know, when they hand over a document that says 900 pounds at 60% that could go to weapons grade. 90% in a couple weeks, that's a different animal. Yeah. All right, I'm foreshadowing what we might be talking about tonight, but I'll relate to you what Richard Goldberg of FD said in the first hour. We sent a letter today to UAE, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, China, and a couple other places saying, we know you've got their shadow funds. Either you freeze them or turn them over to us, or you're going to feel the full fury of our banking sanctions. Have you heard about that yet? And do you – I can't believe we'd do that to UAE, but do you think we would? Now, the UAE has frozen Iranian funds. They just did it a few days ago. So I'm not sure whether we're talking past each other on the UAE, but I specifically know they have. Other countries – are, I'm told, feeling a lot of pressure on a lot of fronts from the Trump administration, including China ahead of this trip to China that's still on by the president going to see President Xi Jinping. So I'll be making that trip over to China. And, you know, I think that this moment, if you want to read in between Chinese officials, they want to be a part of this. solution, negotiation, but they are not stepping up on the straight-of-moos, as of yet, or, to your point, other assets. When is the summit scheduled for, Brett Baer? Is it May 17th? May 14, 15, something like that. Okay, so a month. Do you think, do you think Jimmy Lyle will be on the plane when you come back? That would be a big deal if he was. But listen, there's going to be something baked in the cake. They're not going to go over there without deliverables. That's what I'm hoping it's Jimmy Lai because that would be it's a low-cost give by Xi Jinping. It's a big win for the president. And given the Pope Leo the 14th back and forth.

kind of a double win, Brett Bear. I'm not sure you would be. From a former altar boy, there could be some detente coming on the Catholic front. I think that might be wise after the last two days. That's two of us, and we agree. Brett Bear, I'll see you later tonight on Special Report. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. On this April 14th, I'm pleased to welcome Bethany Mandel back to the program. Bethany, about an hour before the program today, I pre-taped a 30-minute interview for next week with Rachel Goldberg-Paulin about her book when we see you again. Have you read it yet? I have not, but I talked to John, Rachel's husband. I've talked to their family about the book. It's gut-wrenching. And it's not a book about grief. It is grief in pages. It's really a remarkable story. Do you think people will be willing to read it? So the testimony of Ellie Shirabi, his accounts of being held hostage and coming out of the tunnels of Gaza after being held for over a year to discover that his wife and two children were murdered, that book was a bestseller. What's special about Rachel Goldberg, Poland, is that she has this American experience because her and John were born and raised here, and they moved to Israel as adults. And so she has... away with words in English. It's her native language. It's, she's, she's such a compelling human. And. So captivating. I'm looking forward to reading it. And I think anyone who's seen her, which is now, you know, tens of hundreds of millions of people have as well, her story is incredible. And her strength is incredible. I was wearing a T-shirt the other day that they made while Hirsch was being held captive. Hope is mandatory. And that's the perspective that she held through that entire, you know, almost a year of her husband being, or I'm sorry, her son being held captive before he was murdered by Hamas in the tunnels under Arafa. I had no idea. I kind of knew, because I interviewed Rachel a couple of times, that they're very deeply religious. But I didn't understand how interwoven her faith life is with this suffering period. I mean, we've got Job, Jacob Isaac, and Moses in this speaking directly to Rachel. Did you know that about her? I did. She would talk a lot about, you know, starting the day, reading psalms. And, you know, every, for every day that he was held hostage, she would read the corresponding psalm. And so if it was day 33 that he was being held hostage, she would read Psalm 33.

So this sort of carried her through. And their life before the war started, she was working at a Jewish learning organization in Jerusalem. And so this was always such a huge part of their lives. And it's why they decided to move to Israel in the first place when Hirsch was still a young kid. So I knew that this was a pretty big thing in their lives. Well, the book is divided into the before and the after. the day that separates them being October 7th. I can't recommend it enough. People ought to go out and buy it in advance. But it reminded me to ask you, when you go to Temple, I didn't know this until I read the book, the boys and the girls sit on different side with their mothers and their fathers. And there's a part of the service where the father puts their prayer shawl over their boy. Are you familiar with that? Yeah. Yeah, it's when the cohanes, the descendants of the priestly class are, they're called up for a special ceremony. We actually had a lot of that happen over the holiday of Passover this year. And my kids guilted their dad into coming to synagogue because he does that with them. And one of the special things that they say about Hirsch was that... even though he wasn't religious anymore, he still went to Temple with his dad almost every single week because he didn't want him to sit alone because they were the only two men in their immediate family. That's in the book, and John's afterward is particularly moving. I just can't recommend this enough, which brings me to my bigger question. You know, we're in the middle of a war with Iran. Iran is responsible for 10-7. I don't feel... bad for any IRGC member who gets blown up. But what percentage, unlike Gaza, which I think is deeply poisoned in the people, I don't think the Iranian people are that way. Do you? I don't know. Everything that we've heard before the war, and I think one of the most striking stories that we've heard, you know, because we've had basically radio silence from Iran since the war started. But when we lost our airmen for close to 48 hours, one of the most striking things was the Iranian people went, drove on that road that separated Tehran in that region and parked their cars to try to prevent the regime from accessing those areas to give the Americans time to come in and airlift our guy out. So I think that really speaks volumes to, you know, the sentiment in Iran about their regime and about what we're doing there. Does that come through to you in legacy media coverage of this war, which seems to me sometimes to verge on rooting for Iran? No, it's absolutely not. And it's interesting. Someone sent me a clip from Norwegian television earlier today. His son is a classmate of my daughters in an online Jewish school. And so he sent me a clip of something that had just played on television. And they were really amping up, even in Norway in their mainstream media, this idea that the Iranian people are under siege.

just as much as the regime is, and trying to play that sympathy card in the same way, in a way that I found to be very disingenuous. So perhaps we should take comfort in the fact that it's not just our mainstream media that's lying to us. It's a worldwide problem. Well, I have this is third hand hearsay, that Iranians are happy the bombs were falling and disappointed that they stopped. Is that consistent with your understanding? That's what I've anecdotally heard as well. But again, it's the same sort of third hand, but I'm hearing that as well. All right. Now I want to switch back to Northern Israel and the Galilee. Do you think people feel safe enough to remove themselves or to move back there yet? Not at all. No. And it's a significant portion of the country that lives up there. I wonder how many of those people will end up returning at all because, you know, since October 7th, that area has been under siege more than most. And so, you know, I think there's a lot of likelihood that the people who had lives up there have since moved on, who have since decided to live in, you know, Jerusalem or Motiin or Bates Shemesh and just sort of pick up their lives and permanently come to this. understanding that, you know, their homes might not be, you know, salvageable. Are you all optimistic about these talks at the State Department? They've never been held before. Lebanon has never sat down in an official capacity with Israel. It's happening today with Marco Rubio at the head of the table. I think it's a big deal, do you? I do think it's a big deal. I mean, I never underestimate the negotiating power of the Trump administration, whether it be Steve Witkoff or Jared Kushner or Marco Rubio. They are incredibly skilled at, you know, cutting through the nonsense and getting agreements made and, you know, getting people to understand what's in their best interest. And so, you know, I'm interested to see how this goes. I'm definitely not pessimistic about it. And have you picked up any kind of hint about what the operation is that Israel pulled off three days ago that hammered Hezbollah like the beepers? I haven't. No. No, it's been pretty tight-lipped. Isn't that frustrating? They usually tell us when they do a Superman kind of thing, and now I'm addicted to it. I know. The Israelis are very good at their spycraft, I have to say. They keep a secret pretty well over there. Well, if you hear, let me know, come back a second time. Once again, though, for the audience, when? We see you again by Rachel Goldberg-Pollin. It's available on Amazon for pre-order. It comes out in a week. I will play you the interview in a week. And Bethany, I look forward to talking with you about the book after you've had a chance to read it. Don't go anywhere, America. I'll be right back. Lots more coming up. Got a lot of good clips for you. And Texas Senator John Cornyn is coming up, too, right here on the Hughitt Show.

I'll support the president's request, and if it's $1.5 trillion, I'll support that. But we need to shake off all this terrible bureaucracy. I think Secretary Pete Hegseth and the Department of War are trying to do the right thing, but we still have way too many bureaucrats operating in the procurement process in the Pentagon, which slow things down, make them unaffordable, and are basically exposing us to great danger. Senator Corrin, you have the most valuable currency in the United States Senate, seniority. Do the voters of Texas realize that if they trade you out for a James Talarico, God forbid, or Attorney Ken Paxton, he'll be number 100 out of 100, that they lose all the advantages of that seniority? Is that an argument you can make to voters? Well, you do learn a few things the longer you're here. And I've been, this is not a place where you can walk into on day one and make a difference. But for example, when the governor wanted Texas to be reimbursed, $11 billion for what Texas taxpayers paid to secure the border during the Biden administration's open border policies, he called me. And I worked with all of the Texas delegation and the speaker and the majority leader. And we got that done. and we'll be presenting that check to the governor, the president will, sometime in the near future. So I think it's easy to take that sort of effectiveness for granted. But look, I think the contrast between James Talarico and me will be apparent to all. Tauroiko is a phony. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. The press kind of likes him a little bit because he's different because he... He claims to be a seminarian. Maybe he is. But he's reading a different Bible than I am, claiming God is not binary. There's six genders and that the Bible approves of abortion. So he's just a classic liberal or progressive in the image of Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and we'll expose him as such. He's a woke wolf, and I don't like wolves to begin with, but I don't like woke wolves, which brings me back to Ken Paxton. You won the primary, Senator, and I haven't seen polling since then, but are all your colleagues going down to Texas to stump for you because we really cannot afford to pour billions of dollars into Texas? You're a layup. You're like the Cavaliers against the Raptors. We need, are they working for you? Well, John Thune and Senator Scott had been terrific. And I've appreciated their support. They recognize what John Thune calls the business case for my candidacy because it'll be a whole lot cheaper because Democrats won't pour in hundreds of millions of dollars into Texas to try to elect to James Talarico if I'm the nominee, because that will be a long shot to be sure. So I'm very happy with the support I've gotten from our leadership.

But more importantly, as you point out, I'm more happy with the support I got from Republican primary voters coming out first out of three on March the 3rd. And so now we need to finish the job for encouraging people to get out and vote in early voting from May the 18th through the 22nd and then on election day, runoff day, May the 26th. And of course, the people who show up are the ones whose voice and whose vote count. Last minute, Senator, May 18th to 22nd, early voting. Is that by absentee or is it in person? In person, in person. We'll still have, you can still vote by mail if you meet the qualifications, but we have the most generous voting opportunities in Texas of any state that I'm aware of. So you can show up in person for virtually the whole week before the election, or you can come in the day after Memorial Day on May the 26th. But it's really important to have a good turnout. You know, I really have come to believe that the reason we get such extremes. in our November general elections is because there's such poor turnout and participation in the primaries. We had 11% of registered voters vote in the Republican primary and maybe even less than runoff. We've got to get people out and we're on in so many stations in Texas. Hear me. Get out and vote for John Cornyn. And when Ken Paxton shows up, I'll be sure to play it a few times. Willing to have mine. Very willing to have mine. I know the equal time rules. He just hadn't wanted to come yet. Stay tuned, America. Thank you for listening today, joined by the editor-in-chief of National Review, longtime friend Rich Lowry. Rich, I have been listening with a bit of dismay to the editors over the last few weeks. Why do you think that dismay exists? I'm sure here you think some of us have been too negative, including perhaps yours, truly. Yes. I want Noah on every show. I want Noah to have four times as much time, and I want him to be on every show. So I thought we would just start by being fair to each other. What would you put down as the conditions under which you would proclaim Operation Epic Furing to be an unqualified success? Unqualified would be the fall of the regime, assuming you don't get some sort of disaster where you have a Houthi-like insurgency threatening the straight-of-form moves in a different way. But that would be the... the victory you'd ultimately be hoping for. I don't discount you that that could happen. I doubt it's happening on a schedule highly convenient to us. That's usually just not the world. The way the world works in this regime has survived a lot to this point. But six months from now, 12 months from now, I don't totally discount. It's short of that, I think if you get the highly rich uranium, that's a huge deal.

Short of that, I think getting them just to reopen the straight and getting some sort of deal to limit their nuclear program, at the same time, you've eliminated so much of the missile capacity and you kind of wreck their economy. That would be a success as well. Okay, for me, the minimum, a minimum is that the strait has to reopen, and until the straits reopen, we haven't won. And I gather 20 ships went through today. By reopen, I mean the average 100 to 120 ships a day that we were before the war. That's the minimum baseline, because we've wrecked their other things. But a real win, they have to give us the highly enriched uranium, and they have to agree to an inspection regime. significantly stronger than the one that the JCPOA had. To me, that's an almost perfect win. The perfect regime change, I can't hope for it. I don't think it's realistic. That's up to the people of Iran. They've just murdered 35,000 of them. I don't know that I'd be willing to go marching the streets or have my kids go do that. But if we got to, we got the uranium, their economies are wreck. and they've agreed to inspections. Isn't that like the best foreign policy win the United States has had in 30 years? Yes. So to be clear, what I signed up for at the outset of this war, I was skeptical of regime change or again doing it in our schedule from the air. But if we significantly degraded all of this and set back to their nuclear program for years. That was a win for me. It's the straight that's been the curveball. And I just think it's a core commitment of Anglo-American naval policy going back for centuries, for centuries, free navigation of the seas. So what Trump was saying at times, and maybe he was just job-boning people and trying to get help from allies, but it's not our issue. Our crude oil doesn't come through there. The Europeans should take the lead. I thought that all was terrible. Now, I like much more what he's doing now. I think we need to see the straight reopened again one way or the other. Now, let's talk a little bit about NATO. I moderated a panel today with the former national security advisor, O'Brien, his counterpart in Japan, and Prime Minister Morrison of Australia, former Prime Minister. And the PM reminded me, nine years ago we had a crisis in the strait, and Australia sent a frigate. I'm really down on NATO, rich, and I've always been in Atlantis, but I'm beginning to wonder, are they really worth it? And that took a lot to move me there. I've never, ever doubted that. They're wobbly. Yeah, I mean, they're always going to be wobbly, at least compared to us. But the way I look at it, Hugh, in the grand historical sweeps of things, if you told someone, you're going to basically control Europe. Europe is to defer to you on all military matters. Europe's going to be relatively united in doing this. You're going to effectively control Germany, which has been at the center of geopolitics on the continent for centuries. And they're all going to be happy about that.

Any statesmen throughout the last 500 years would say, yeah, give me that deal. I'll take that. So I don't think we should underestimate what we have in the form of NATO, but they're highly irritating. I think they've played this wrong. I think they should help. They have more directly direct at stake than we do in the reopening of the straight. But on the other hand, you know, we did irritate them. unnecessarily irritates the wrong word, too soft. We freak them out unnecessarily by talking about taking Greenland by force, which never made any sense. You know, the reports that they're actually were preparing for war against us. The Dane sent a couple of platoons that like a symbolic deployment against their ally. It's not as, you know, we've rubbed them the wrong way unnecessarily. And then they're like, well, you didn't tell us about this in advance. And now you're in the soup with the straight and you want us to help. You know, come talk to us later. Now, I think that's the wrong attitude. I think they should be more willing to help for many reasons. And one of which is people like you are having the reaction you are. Well, Maggie Thatcher is the one that told George H.W. Bush not to go wobbly when 1991 rolled around. I got a real long memory about the Iranians. And I'm beginning to want. You're 57. I'm 70. I don't know how old MBD is or your other participants know as a kid, too. But I don't know if they have quite the emotional reaction about Iran. I hate those people. And let me play you, Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio gave voice to my pent-up frustration with this regime last week. Let's play Marco. These people are lunatics. They are insane. They are religious zealots who can never be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon because they have an apocalyptic vision of the future. And all of their neighbors know that, by the way, which is why all of their neighbors have been supportive of the efforts. This is what I want you to play for MBD, Rich. These people are nuts. We can't let them push us around. Yeah, you know how it has a similar attitude that we do from our generations? Donald Trump, right? No one who lived through 1979 and 1980 will ever view this regime as benign, right? As a benign actor or one that we can truly deal with. So I think, you know, a lot of the commentary is forced into this by Israel or gold into it by Israel. No, he hates this regime to his core. We have statements going back decades. by Donald Trump saying he's going to bomb them or he's going to seize Carg Island or whatever it is. So I think he's totally, his heart is totally in the right place on this and the strategic goal is the correct one. So, to put it in Rich Lowry terms, you always ask the exit questions. I think it's a very charming way to do it. Are we better off than we were six weeks ago, a year ago, and five years ago?

With regard to Iran? Yes. We'll be better off if the straight is reopened. I don't think it's a close call. Without the straight reopened, then it's a real mixed bag and it's inconclusive. How about five years ago when Joe Biden was going into the White House? And they were looking at another appeaser in a long line of Democratic appeasers. I mean, Biden was a disaster on every level, so I'd rather have Trump, you know, a hawk on Iran in office, but we can't lose the straight to them. That's going to be a historic blot on Trump's record, which is not the most important thing. It's going to be a blow to free navigation of the seas and ultimately to our security and wealth as a country. So that's the thing that just has to be fixed. And if I've sounded negative at times the last several weeks, that's the main reason. I would agree with you. I agree with that. I just don't think it's possible. I can't imagine the United States. I know the president was mad, and he posts stuff. But if people just ignored his posts and watched what he does, we're going to reopen the strait. We can't. One of our greatest allies, UAE, I don't know what they do. They have one pipeline, I guess, that goes out to the Red Sea. But we have to reopen the strait. It's like a strategic necessity. Absolutely. Yeah, totally agree with you. And people focus on the oil, and we have, through Hook and Crook, made up some of that oil deficit, which is why we haven't seen a catastrophe on a level that some people predicted. But there are all sorts of other materials and goods that we get through the straight-of-form moves that people aren't focusing as much on. So it has to... It has to reopen. And I think it would be a national humiliation if we just let Iran control and toll the strait of her moves. This is what we have the fleet for, Hugh, to keep this kind of thing from happening. All right. Now I want to switch totally on you because you're the Protestant. We don't care what happens with the Pope. I'm the Catholic that says, I'd rather this not happen, but I don't really put much stock in it. MBD is the Catholic's Catholic. I really don't put much stock in this, Rich, the trading of statements and posts between a president who's got a political job and a pontiff who's got a religious job. Do you? I think it's unfortunate. I don't put a huge amount of stock on it. Look, I think the Pope has been misleading and how he's portrayed what the Bible says about warfare. He cited... on Palm Sunday, this verse from Isaiah 1.15, you got blood in your hands and God's not going to listen to your prayers. That's about a condemnation of the religious practices in Judah. It's not about Judah waging warfare. And later in the chapter of, in the book of Isaiah, you have the king of Judah praying to God to smite the Assyrians who are threatening Jerusalem, and he does. So the idea that God never listens to the prayers of anyone who wages war, as Pope Leo says it, I think is simplistic and reduct. Now, just war matters. And I think the Pope should consider when did Trump first talk about hitting Iran in this iteration when they move down thousands of their own people in the streets? That's the part that bothers me as a Catholic, is that Jimmy Lai is in jail in China because of the Roman Catholic Church making a bad deal with China. And...

I haven't seen much from the Vatican about the dead Iranian. Rich Lowry, I like to agree on that. I'll be listening to the editors whenever it comes out next. Thank you for joining me. Follow him on, Axett Rich Lowry. Listen to the editors and stay tuned. Backbeat, the weather's on the street that the fire in your heart is out. Welcome back, America. That's Oasis. They were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame today. All my bump music coming from inductees today. I'm sure Matt Continent is a big fan of Oasis since he wasn't born when Oasis was out there. Matt, do you like Oasis? Hugh, that's like the soundtrack to my adolescence that saw a wonder wall right there. Are you kidding? How young do you take me for you? I didn't just fall off the apple cart. I think of you as a young man. That's a compliment, though. That's a compliment. I want to begin with a big question. Assess the past week, which would include Islamabad and embargo. and a report from the Bank of Tehran that the economy is in collapse in Iran. And I mean collapse, collapse, collapse. They're our republic collapse. Yeah. Well, I think it's been a roller coaster the past week. I think that after a potential distraction in Islamabad, the president has settled on what seems to me to be the appropriate policy of blockading the Iranian ports and answering Iran's hostage taking of the Strait of Hormuz with... American power. We have the power to control our own destiny. And that's what I think the president is done by saying that the U.S. Navy and Central Command will be disallowing ships to go in and out of Iranian ports, just strangling the regime's economy, which is really... the lifeline to the IRGC, the terrorist regime. So I think we had the potential for a bad deal in Islamabad, but that didn't happen. And I think it didn't happen because the negotiating team, whether it was Jared Kushner or Steve Witkoff or Vice President JD Vance, saw just how intransigent the Iranians are. And it's also because President Trump, and President Trump has been crystal clear for decades. He won't allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon. He has not wavered, and he continues to stand strong as we enter this new phase of the conflict. I agree with all that. I am getting very tired of people telling me what President Trump thinks and what JD Vance thinks and what Steve Witkoff think. Have you noticed how many mind readers we have in the analytical community, Matt? They don't deal with events. They deal with what they think people think.

Yeah, it's a case of projection. You need a team of psychiatrists to study Washington, and they would view the analyst community as exhibiting that delusion of projecting their own fantasies and wishfulfillments onto these administration players. You know, it's interesting, Hugh. Both Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff participated in the last round of negotiations prior to the beginning of Operation Epic Fury. And I think both of them went in thinking, you know what, there's a deal to be had with the Iranian regime. And they came away, if anything, more skeptical than before. And to hear Steve Witkoff talk about the way in which the Iranians treated him during that round of negotiations is to really see someone, listen to someone who is one of my heroes once said, has been mugged by reality. And I think that's happened to Vice President JD Vance as well, because in his post-negotiation interview, he said, look, I may have given advice to the president before the beginning of the operation, but having dealt with the Iranians in Islamabad over the weekend, I can see it's very hard to make a deal with them. Why is it so hard to make a deal with them? Because the Iranian regime, what's left of it understands, that if they were to give up nuclear enrichment, the regime really has no reason to exist. And that is what the Iranians are playing for. They're playing for survival. We have a whole range of different goals in this operation. But what the Iranian regime is playing for is survival. You know, we achieved a strategic breakthrough, I think, of sorts. And I hope we have kept Marco Rubio's clip. Adam can whisper in my ear if we've got it ready to play. But in the meantime, I will ask you about Lebanon. As we speak over at the State Department, a first ever is occurring. A delegation from the government of Lebanon is sitting down with a delegation from the government of Israel. What's that tell you, Matt Contenetti? That's a fact. That's happening. Well, it tells me that since the beginning of the post-October 7th conflicts, the Lebanese government has moved to a position where they understand that Hezbollah is a liability, not an asset. And there's a potential for some type of effort to disarm Hezbollah by the Lebanese government. Now, I think we have a ways to go before we reach that settlement. But it does show, I think, that... Like the other Arab states, like the other Gulf states in the region, since Operation Epic Fury, Lebanon and the Lebanese government has seen the face of the enemy. They understand that Iran and its so-called axis of resistance, these terrorist proxies, which include Hezbollah, Hamas, the hutsis, the militias, Iraq, and Syria. They are... contributing nothing to the Middle East except violence, terror, and bloodshed. And so I hope that these negotiations go well. We'll have to watch. That's the very clarity that I think was the breakthrough. Here's Marco Rubio last week. People are lunatics. They are insane. They are religious zealots who can never be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon because they have an apocalyptic vision of the future. And all of their neighbors know that, by the way, which is why all of their neighbors have been supportive of the efforts. That's why I think.

It was a big win. And when we can get the Secretary of State to say, these people are lunatics, and everybody knows it, isn't that a win for the world when we recognize Hitler is Hitler and the people running Iran are crazy? I think the world is safer when the United States has leaders who can distinguish between good and evil, sane and crazy, who understand the threat from Iran, the threat of an Iranian nuclear weapon, all of the havoc, the economic dislocation, the damage to civilian infrastructure that Iran has caused during the weeks of Operation Epic Fury would be magnified. to an apocalyptic dimension if they had a nuclear weapon. There would be no opening the Strait of Hormuz, which the United States government is now in the process of doing if Iran had a nuclear weapon. So we've seen why Iran cannot be allowed to have this nuclear weapon. That doesn't mean the job is done. The strait has to be open, and we have to find a way, either diplomatically or militarily, to guarantee that Iran never produces enriched uranium again. But I think right now we're in a much better place than we were, say, a week ago. Do you think we have to get the 600 pounds of your enriched uranium to call it a day, Matt, or do we need the regime to do something concrete vis-a-vis the people of Iran who are held under their boot? I mean, the uranium dust, as the president has called it, and others have called it, is being monitored. It's underground. So whether it's, we have eyes on it all the time and we just create a circle and no-go zone for Iranians around that perimeter, or whether we actually extract it, I mean, I think we have several options. The Pickax Mountain facility, though, is one that I think we have to take very seriously. And someone has to gain entry into it. The United States allowing the IEEA to go in there and to monitor it. Those are very important. And opening the straight and not allowing Iran to impede the free flow of commerce on the seas. That is extremely important. Those two things, if we achieve both of those goals, Combined with the way which we've destroyed, the Iranian war machine, truly degraded it, I think you then have the conditions combined with that economic pressure for the regime to unravel. It will be a process of months. but I think it will happen. It took three years after Recovic for the Berlin Wall to fall. I think it might take less time for this regime to fall after Reckovic 2.0 in Islamabad. Domestic politics next with Matt, any of the Wall Street Journal, the American Enterprise Institute. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with Matt on the Hugh Hewitt Show.

Welcome back, America. That's Iron Maiden. I don't think Matt Continent, he listened to Iron Maiden. He doesn't strike me as an Iron Maiden kind of guy. Did you listen to Iron Maiden, Matt? I went to school with a lot of kids wearing used Iron Maiden T-shirts, Hugh. That's about as close as I got. I was going to say, this is definitely not your bowling lane. All right, I want to switch to domestic issues. Last week, little unnoticed because of the news, the president dropped the budget. That budget called for a trillion and a half dollars in defense spending and the most ambitious shipbuilding programs since 1955, 18 warships, 16 auxiliary ships. What do you think about its chances? Do you think they're going to use reconciliation? And do you think it was partly in response to our being in naval power very much in the straits and outside of the straits right now in the here and now? Right. Well, so much is up in the air with reconciliation. And, of course, this weekend, Capitol Hill will be spent trying to get the shutdown of the DHS resolved. I don't know whether the $1.5 trillion defense budget will be through that process as well, though I think they should consider it because I believe they have two bites of the apple, the reconciliation Apple left, Hugh. I think the key question here is what you pointed out with the capacity of our Navy. And I would just refer our audience to that great interview you did with Admiral Mark Montgomery the other day, where he was talking about kind of the burn rate of some of these vessels we have operating in the Middle East. And then, of course, in the Caribbean as well, where once the deployment ends, they have to go in for maintenance. And so you don't want to get into a situation where, God forbid, a crisis happens in the Taiwan Strait. And all of a sudden... We have aircraft carriers. They're all in dry dock being repaired and can't move to respond to the crisis. So that is, I think, the biggest and most compelling argument for spending all it takes to expand our naval capacity. We have guaranteed the safe passage of the global commons of air, sea, and space since the end of the Second World War. That's what we're fighting for right now. at the Strait of Hormuz. And in order to do that, you need a Navy capable of the job. And that's why I think Congress should move expeditiously to expanding our Navy, making sure it has the ships it needs to guarantee the security of commerce and the prosperity of the United States and the world in the event of a crisis. So I want to close, Matt, by talking about President Trump's posts, and there have been a few that have been very controversial this week. I don't know why he posts them, but I do know the effect it has. Almost instantly, everyone in my life who has TDS sends me a direct message or a text that says, aren't you finally going to turn on him? Aren't you finally going to say he's crazy? Don't you feel bad? One guy told me I was in... Danger of losing my soul because he'd attacked the Pope and I wasn't attacking him back. Now, I just got done saying we shouldn't guess at what people's motives are. But do you think he does what he does online in order to remind people who've got TDS offline?

I'm sometimes I'm not sure why he does what he does. He can be perfectly honest. I think the one thing we know about President Trump is he has no filter. And that's been actually an asset for him politically because he is always very direct about how he feels at any given moment. Sometimes it gets him into trouble. And it's gotten him into trouble with more frequency, I think, in the past couple of weeks. But I with President Trump have a very simple rule. Rather than looking at what he says, I look at what he does. He does. And he's having this conflict with the Pope. I don't think it will benefit anyone. But I'm looking at what he does. And in the policy realm... And the conflict we are engaged in at the moment with Iran, I believe he's settled on the right policy. You know, I'm a Catholic, cradle Catholic, Matt. And popes have been, have scuffed it up a little bit with presidents forever. We did a lot with this with Francis. We did some of this with Benedict and with John Paul, but not nearly as much. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the church. It doesn't change the presidency. It sure makes good copy, though. Have you written about it yet? I wrote about it for tomorrow's Washington Examiner. Have you written about it yet? Because it's good copy. It's good copy. I haven't read about it. I have to say I do credit the president with originality for calling the Pope soft on crime. That was new to me. That was new to me. That made me laugh. I have to admit it. But it does make for good copy. And it puts liberals in weird situations. I saw one headline here where USA Today was saying, a Pope Leo for president. And he said, really? You know, you might want to look at some of his positions on these issues, right? That's the point. No more abortion in the United States. And politics. Yeah. Mark Kanye, next time I will ask you about Axelrod's theory of Americans electing the opposite temperament, because I'm not sure what the opposite temperament of President Trump is. We have to find the most boring person in America to be president if that theory holds. Matt Continent can be followed on X at Continentie, read in the Wall Street Journal at his free expressions column and everything he does over at the American Enterprise Institute. Thank you, Matt. I'll be right back, America State, too. My friends, you've probably seen the headlines are worse, your latest sell bill. Big wireless is raising rates again. That means you can be paying more for the same service or getting pushed into a pricier plan that you simply don't need. That's not right. There's a better way, and it's called consumer cellular. Millions of Americans have already made this switching for good reason. Consumer cellular is consistently ranked number one in customer satisfaction because they treat you like a customer, not a number. With consumer cellular, you get flexible, affordable plans that fit your life, not the other way around.

No long-term contracts, no hidden fees. You can keep your phone and choose a new one. So don't let big wireless dictate what you pay. Take control today. Visit consumer cellular.com slash hue and use the promo code Hugh Hewitt-U-G-H for your second month for free. Or call 800, 411, 44-54. Again, remember my code is Hugh. If you're over 50, listen to this. You can get a single line with unlimited talk, text, and data for just $35 a month. at consumercellular.com slash hue. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That is Phil Susan Collins, and my guest is James Lylex, who could not be a more appropriate guest today on the day when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announces its annual inductees. So I'm going to give you a little bit of a minute on each of them. Let's start with Phil Susan Collins, Lylix. What say you, in or out, good choice, bad choice. Fantastic choice. He's one of the best drummers in rock and roll. Imagine if, at some point in the 60s, the Rolling Stones had said, you know what, we're going to put Charlie Watts, our steady drummer, into Mick Jagger's spot, and Mick Jagger went off to a solo career, and the Rolling Stones exploded. Imagine, you know, Richard's Starkey taking over for Paul McCarty. It's about that. Phil Susan Collins stepped into the role of the departed singer. The band blew up and became incredibly famous and good for them. They deserve some make some money. And I was one of the first people to hear in the air tonight because unlike most, I bought that album the second it came out because I was a Genesis fan. Phil Susan Collins is also one of the world's greatest collectors of alamo material. And as a matter of fact, a psychic told him that he was reincarnated from the last person to leave the alamo before the battle. He donated the whole collection to the alamo itself. So this magnificent thing that he assembled from all the millions that he got as a... The pop star ended up benefiting American history for generations to come. I love Phil Susan Collins. I would like to tell the audience, by the way, Lilix had no idea we were going to do this segment or talk about these people. So this is just Lilix being Lilix. You can hear him on Thursday night with Generalissimo on the after show, which is now called Dwayne's World, but you have to join the universe. Part number two, Billy Idol. What say you? I love Billy Idol. The sneer, the whiplash sneer, that buzz cut, came out of a real actual generation, as they called themselves, a punk band. And he was a genuine punk, but he was too charismatic. And he got glammed up a little bit, buffed up, got some good songs and an amazing guitarist and deserved, again, the hit that he had. Ionic 80s look and songs. What I love about Billy Idol is that the last thing I heard from him, there's a new documentary, by the way, called Billy Idol Should Be Dead. I haven't seen it. The last thing I saw from him was a Christmas. album that Billy was singing, you know, honey, baby it's cold outside. And I was hoping that he did it with a particularly malevolent sneered in his voice of malice, you know, the way people are always saying that song is meant to be. But no, he played it completely straight. Billy Idol doing, you know, I can think of worse things. We might not get through this list. Number three, queue up Iron Maiden for people, Adam. Just a little Iron Maiden. James, what do you think of Iron Maiden?

Well, one of the earlier hair bands, if you want to say, there's fond a whole lot of other guys who came out there, put a little bit more hair on, print their hair, put a little bit more lipstick on there. What you've got to remember about Iron Maiden, was there one of those groups that didn't just have a logo. They had a mascot. They had a mascot called Eddie. Eddie the Head, I think he was called. It was sort of this cadaverous, leering, E.C. Comics kind of guy that would accompany their antics. Great stuff. I wasn't really ever a heavy metal guy because it's too much about... You know, hello, Satan. Let's sit down and have some crumpets. But, again, you can't do the history of metal in rock in the 80s without getting the iron made. All right. I'm not sure you're going to have any commentary on Joy, Division, and New Order. Oh, who might be? Well, Joy Division, yeah, Joy Division named after, I believe, a Hitler organization that handed out prostitutes. And then, of course, New Order out of that. New Order is one of the greatest bands, synth bands of the era as well. Distinctive, I think it's Bernard Summers is the guy who's the vocalist. This very dry bass sound you can always recognize. Their album Requiem, which I think came out in about 1991-92, or I'm sorry, Republic, is one of the greatest synth-pop records ever. And they're still turning it out. periodically every the year you'll say oh new order has a song and it'll sound like it did 20 years ago um you know the iconic blue monday and i shouldn't use the iconic so much but blue monday is one of those songs that unites generations comes on the radio i turn it up and comes on the radio when my daughter's in the car she turns it up great all right oasis yeah i don't have much to say about them all right

Shardet. Charday, it was this, is this beautiful, gorgeous, sultry, smoky jazz singer. Gaming about 8788, I'd say, smooth operator was. Is it really pronounced Sarday? I think it's Charday, yeah. Oh, I thought of a same. That is in Mark. Yeah, I mean, beautiful, beautiful voice, romantic, sort of the happier person's Chris Isaac from the diss outside. Everybody bought her album, everybody made out to it. She deserves to be there. Is it rock? Well, if you want to expand the definition of rock to include sultry, smoky, soft, soulful songs, then sure. Okay, Luther Vandross. Uh, yeah, probably I don't know as much about him at all, except to say the name, Eifford is recognizable, and I'd recognize a tune of his or two. Uh, but he's one of those guys who probably should have gotten in earlier, and now that they're getting around to him, because he's, I believe, predates most of the people we're talking about. Okay, very last one, and I have nothing to say about Wu Tong clan, but maybe you do. I don't have anything to say about them either. And this just isn't because they're bad. Some of their stuff is okay. I like it. I'll nod around to it. But it's because it comes at a point where I in my life had stopped paying particular attention as much as I did before to radio and pop music. For two reasons. One, I was getting older. Two, I was finding more stuff that was niche than I ordered that I believed. And I guess there's a third reason. The music of the, you know, of my 30s was demonstrably inferior to the music of my tonics. It wasn't just that I got old. Without question. It got bad. It got meretricious. It got stupid. There was still great stuff to be had. But you were lucky enough so that our drop-off interest in pop music coincided with the fall of pop music itself. And that's kind of... I got to ask you... Phil Susan Collins should have been in in like year three, right? Why did it take so long? On the nature. I'm not sure about that. There's a lot of, you know, I don't know how many they induct a year, but, you know, I put Zizi Top before I put in Phil Susan Collins. Phil Susan Collins is a great drummer, but he's a jazz drummer in so many vocalist, and that's true, but he didn't write a lot of the songs. I would have put, you know, there's so many bands from the 60s foundational bands that I would have put in first. Herman's Hermit's. You'd have put in Herman's Herman. Yeah. You know, second, second verse, same as the first, not exactly the most lyrically inventive group out there. But, yeah, I would have put them in, not because they're better, but just because I would have laid the foundation for the Rock and Roll. You know, thank you. It's an evolutionary walk. You've got to start, you know, the, do you go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ever? No, I haven't been there, no. Oh, James. That's a place you and Dwayne should do a... What are we going out with? Oh, Phil. Phil, Colin. Lylix, you can hear him again Thursday night in the after show now called Dwayne's World. Used to be called Dwayne's World when it was behind. Outside the paywall. Now it's behind the paywall where the after show used to be. But Lylix and the Magnificent Seven back with Dwayne on Thursday night. Stay tuned. Thank you, James.

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