The Weekend in Switzerland, VDH returns to discuss "The Counterrevolution"

In 2025, Americans lost more than $21 billion to fraud and identity theft. That's why so many people are turning to Aura. Aura helps protect your identity with fraud alerts, dark web monitoring, and up to $5 million in identity theft protection. And if you become a victim, Aura's 24-7 U.S.-based support team is there to help. Don't wait until your identity is stolen. Start your free trial today at Aura.com slash safe. That's Aura.com slash safe. Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there. And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Hugh for Hillsdale. Or just Google, Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale. Good morning, glory, and evening, Grace, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. I hope you had a great Father's Day weekend. Absolutely fabulous. I did. Now, none of my kids were around, none of my grandkids. They start rolling in. next weekend. But we had great house guests, and I had a lovely time yesterday afternoon, fetching Mr. Stewart says, well, I haven't been much of a Father's Day for you. What do you want? I want a rip-beer float because I do. It's been a passion of mine since Rob Gunneri and I would go to the A&W rip-beer and more as soon as we could drive. So, like, when I was 15 and Rob was 16, we just lived at the A&W. Rupier. I love Rupier floats. They're not good for you. Don't get me wrong. They're not like a relief factor. But because she went out and got the really good ice cream from the local place and actually in W. Root Bear, I had two. Now, that means you have a sugar. I haven't had a soft drink out of a can in 10 years. I drink water and water, and then I drink water. And then. I rarely eat ice cream, and I haven't had root beer in a long time. So I had two, of course. So that gives you a sugar eye like a rocket, and then you crash. So then I went to bed early. And it was a wonderful Father's Day. But before that, I had gone on with Peter Ducey on. You got a great new show, a great new show with Jackie Heinrich called The Sunday Briefing. 11 o'clock on Fox News, 8 o'clock on the West Coast. So they called me up rather sheepishly, and they said, you know, it's Father's Day. Can you do it? Yeah, I can do it. I'm not doing anything on Father's Day. I'm a grandpa. So let's play that cut from yesterday's Sunday briefing with Peter Ducey cut number four. Or let's bring in Fox News contributor and host of the Hugh Hewitt show. Hugh Hewitt. Hugh, I got to ask you about this news overnight. Straight over, it moves closed. Now what? Yeah. Well, I think what the president posted and Trey just referenced on True Social this morning, they've got to pull back Hezbollah and they've got to open the strait of war moves or we'll be back to the bombing. Now, I'm not one who put any faith in this MOU anyway, Peter, I think it's a letter of intent in real estate term. It doesn't bind anyone. You might continue talking, but they're not going to bring back Munich in 1938. from Switzerland. I don't think the vice president's going to do that. I don't think special envoys Steve Witkoff or Jared Kushner are going to do that. I don't think the president will let them do that. So I actually believe we're in half time of the battle, the current battle. Tomorrow marks the one-year anniversary of Operation Midnight Hammer when the president ordered the Fodor facility completely destroyed. And in that year, we've seen Iran terribly shaken. They massacred 40,000 of their own people, and they've been pummeled for six weeks.

I think they're going to want to strike a nicer tone with everyone if they want to get out of this jam because their country's falling apart. They may have closed this trade again. That will not lead to anything productive for them, but probably a return to bombing. Ditto, Hezbollah in Lebanon. And Hugh, nobody knows that is watching this, but I was waiting in Switzerland for the vice president this week, and he stood me up because... We figured at the time that this is just like a no-win situation for JD Vance, right? If the deal works, conservatives are mad that he's the face of it. If it doesn't work, the president is mad. But the VP's new angle in this new sound that we have, it sounds like he is arguing. If this doesn't work out, it's really Israel's fault. Listen to this. It's going to be something we're going to have to continue to ban it to ensure that Israel and Lebanon are... The big problem is that you have somebody will fuse and then somebody will respond. And you kind of have a chicken neck problem where you just got to stop the scenes and long enough to get the fire. So is that a fair point that really, if this all blows up, it's the Israelis? No, and I didn't hear it that way. I heard the chicken and egg, which is not a great analogy, because Hezbollah is a terrestrial occupying force in Lebanon. Israel had to go in to defend Israel's territory. The president has blessed that. I think the vice president is, I hope he's studying Ronald Reagan and Recovic in 1986, because sometime a disaster of a summit can turn into a big geostrategic political win. So if he walks away from Switzerland and says, these are idiots, these are lunatics, we can't deal with him. I think that increases his stock because that's the actual truth. We know that the IRGC and the Mullahs are nuts and their lunatics, as the president has said, as Marco Rubio has said. So I think it could blow up, and to his advantage, what isn't to his advantage is blaming our closest ally, most important ally in the world, Israel, for any of this, because it's not their fault. It's the Iranian terrorist proxy Hezbollah that refuses to disengage. And it seems like the heart of... Republican and Democratic concerns with this deal is giving Iran money that they can maybe then use for anything. I asked President Trump about that on Wednesday in Evian. Listen to this. The United States is not going to directly pay Iran, but the U.S. is going to let the Iranians start making billions of dollars, selling oil, accessing this reconcement. Only if they're doing things right. Only if, Peter, we're not doing anything. We're not putting up money. Explain, though, what the difference is between giving Iran, U.S. dollars and unfreezing. U.S. dollars for... Well, the unfreezing, it's the easy one to answer. We have taken a lot of their money, and we have their money. We have taken their money. It's not our money. It's their money. What do you think of that answer?

It's an aluminum exchange, Peter, as was the one at the end when he said, I'll blame J.D, if it goes off the rails when you asked him about that. What he's saying is there's a way for Iran to get their assets unfrozen. It would begin, for example, with the IAEA inspectors going into Pickack Mountain, which is the fourth big nuclear facility. It would begin if they simply stopped shooting and attacking the boats and the straight-oormoos like they did overnight. It would begin... when they withdrew Hezbollah to north of Latani and get out of the grill of Israel. I don't think he's going to let anything get unfrozen until they've done all that. In the meantime, they can sell some oil if they've opened up the strait. That's about $5 billion a month. That's barely lunch money for the IRGC. So that's not giving them much. So I didn't take too much away. from the MOU. I think it's half-time in this battle. I don't think we know which way it's going to go, but I don't think they're going to be getting rich off of the MOU, not in any way, shape, or form. And something else that JD Vance is saying is that the U.S. is going to be, we heard this today. The U.S. wants to have new relations with the Iranians. Like, he's making it sound like we could have a normal relationship with them if they give up the nuke. Do you think that there's a big appetite for that in the United States? A normal... diplomatic relationship where he's visiting Tehran the same way that he would go visit Riyadh or somewhere like that. Only if the regime changed, Peter. There's a huge appetite for getting back to where we were in 1978 with Iran. They were a close ally. They were ally of Israel. There are 92 million wonderful Persian people, Iranian people with extraordinary talents. We've got a great diaspora in the United States. We'd love to go back to 1978 before Jimmy Carter screwed this all up and the Ayatollah Khomeini came back. But the IRGC, the Haiti... These knuckleheads who are their political leadership, they have no power? No, there's not much appetite for that. We would like for Iran to back away from their nuclear program, and maybe they change over time. But I'm not holding my breath to win. I'm going to visit Tehran. I don't think that's ever going to happen in my lifetime unless the people rise up in the next year, which is possible. Not likely, but it's possible. And I don't think we're going to have the embassy reopen. on Massachusetts Avenue, which is the old Iranian embassy, for a long, long time. Well, we'll see. Hugh Hewitt, happy Father's Day. Thank you. And do you, Peter? It's always good to be. And then Steve Ducey followed later. And it's just good to spend Father's Day with a young father, as Peter Ducey is. So I listened to Vice President JD Vance, Presser. this morning live before he left Switzerland in which he said a couple of things. And then I posted this on my ex account, which I encourage you to follow. I try and keep it down to a few Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Guardians, Cleveland Cavaliers, Ohio State tweets, and then serious stuff. So I posted this. President Trump posted over the weekend in Iranian delegation panic. That is the biggest takeaway from the weekend.

President Trump posted two threats in response to Hezbollah attacks on the Israeli defense forces and the Iranian threats to close the strait in Iran's negotiators through a fit, issuing belligerent statements, refusing to shake hands, take pictures, etc. They panic because they didn't have instructions on what to do from Vihiti or Ali Khamenei 2.0 or the Supreme Council is still alive. But in panicking, they showed that the president's posts land on their mark, Iranian, quote, leadership, and that clearly Trump scares them and impacts their behavior. Then they left. Too late. In that panicked response to the post, they demonstrated their own weaknesses. They will be berated for being so transparent when they assemble in their cave back in Iran. As Walter Russell Mead told Dan Cienor this morning on the new Call Me Back podcast, the weaker the player, the tougher they must act. Iran is wrecked. They act like a wrecked and scared nation acts. The negotiations ended on talks about the IAEA inspections and control the Iranian frozen assets by the U.S. if they are ever unfrozen in the least. Because President Trump cannot accept anything except a perfect deal. And as last week showed, there are scores of allies ready to enable to slam a bad deal. The Iranians have to cope with an American president who isn't chasing after them with sweeteners, but is already ready to pound their military, destroy their decades of investment and enrichment. He's already done that, cut off their cash flow. The Haiti may be screaming at the Iranian negotiators at this moment, and he can be sure only that the Iranians are listening. Stay tuned, America. I'll be right back with Rebecca Hyrant. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh. It is promised. I have got a chance now to talk to Rebecca Heinrich. She is the senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, heads the Keystone Defense Initiative there, and has been writing about and following the battle with Iran and the MOU. Rebecca, welcome. I just want to ask you right out of the box, what did you make of this weekend's exchange in Switzerland and the President's Post and the Iranian reaction to them? Well, thanks for having me, Hugh. It's always good to join you. So I, you know, just like everybody else, trying to take it all in. And it's really important, you know, to, you've got to kind of take it all in at first and then sit through what's true and what's not true because the Iranians are pushing all their propaganda and all that kind of stuff. So having said all of that, I'm not very optimistic about the direction of things. I do think that the Iranians got the better of our American team just on the optics. you know, it looked like the Iranians came in after the American side was already in the room when the press was there. And I know the American side said they didn't know that the press was going to be there or something to that effect. But regardless, typically diplomatically, the way protocol goes is you don't want to be looking, you don't want to look like you're sitting there waiting for the other side to come in, like you were really the one eager. So I think that the Iranians had the upper hand just in terms of optics. But then I was also. You know, I really thought that the vice president's press conference explaining what he considered wins were not huge wins for the U.S. side. The only silver lining that I can see out of all of this was really President Trump. President Trump. kind of interjecting in the midst of this flurry of diplomacy and reminding everybody that he is still willing to use military force, especially on forcing the straight open if the Iranians are insisting on trying to control the straight and charge tolls. So it seems like President Trump is watching everything very carefully and then periodically jumping in with some key reminders that I think are important. So, Rebecca, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I also think the most important takeaway, and I came to it after listening to... Walter Russell Meade talked to Dan Cynor today and his note that the weaker you are, the tougher you act. I think that the Iranians made a huge strategic error when they reacted to President Trump's post in rather a fit-like fashion. They were very angry. They were waving their hands and issuing statements and stomping around and refusing to shake hands and they left early. Well, guess why? Because President Trump posted a threat. against Hezbollah and a threat against the strait, and they didn't know how to react because Vahidi or Humini 2.0 or some counsel that still living reacted back there, and they didn't know what to do. That's how I thought through. What about that take?

So I think that that's important, but that's also why President Trump's periodic interjections, I think, are going to be really important. And Vice President JD Vance confirmed the rumor that the Iranians even threatened to storm out. So that's true. The Iranians did threaten to storm out. But that just shows you how fragile this entire thing is. I mean, look, going into these negotiations, President Trump has amassed enormous leverage. I mean, economically, obviously, but with the military presence in the region, which we have not withdrawn any of our military presence out of the region yet. But what I am concerned about, Hugh, is that a couple of things, and what the vice president said this morning, the first is that we're still linking the Hezbollah's attacks against Israel to this thing. And it looks like this arbitration institution that we've essentially created, this cell, does not include Israel. It includes the Iranians, the Americans, maybe some other actors when it comes to Lebanon. And I think that that's going to be very problematic. The Israelis just found this massive tunnel that Iran funded in southern Lebanon, where the Hezbollah was launching attacks. And so I'm worried about that. And then the second piece, I'll just say, Hugh, is that we did get clarity from Secretary Scott Bessent this morning about the nature of the waiver on sanctions. And these are broad sanctions on Iranian. right out of the gate, and I am concerned about that piece of it. Now, I did have a question about the Scott Bessent waiver. Is that immediately revocable? I mean, he doesn't need Congress or anybody else to authorize him to put it back on, right? That's right. So my understanding is that waiver, so the sanctions are obviously they're imposed with the support of Congress, but the waiver itself just permits him to be able to do that. Now, the good news is this is still going to take some time to unwind, you know, to basically relax all of these. It's immediate. I mean, it goes into effect immediately. But, you know, you're going to have to get some buyers, see who's willing to buy this Iranian oil. But it even permits Americans to buy Iranian oil. So it's very massive broad-based relief. And then it relieves, of course, the sanctions on everything that would facilitate the exportation of that oil, including banking and all of that. And so that is going to, and there's no. there's no restrictions on where it goes to. So, of course, it's going to go straight to the IRGC. So that piece is concerning, but it does end at the end of this 60-day negotiation. Obviously, President Trump is going to be watching this thing to see if we actually land some kind of permanent deal. So it is temporary, but it is, it is pretty, it is dramatic, and it is going to greatly help the Iranians in the meantime. So I've been calling this halftime, Rebecca, because I don't think it's a winner or a loss. I think we're ahead going into the locker room at halftime to use an American analogy, and we'll see what we're doing on the whiteboard and we'll come out after 60 days. Actually, I think we'll come out after five months in the election and either resume combat or enter into a deal. I am a little bit afraid that...

My friend John Podhorts, for example, is an example of a hawk who's extremely distressed, called the vice president J.D. Chamberlain today. Well, there was no piece in our time or piece it as a hand. It wasn't that. He said, we're going to get inspections. And if he comes back and says, let me give you a hypothetical. There will be inspectors at Pickax Mountain in one week, and they'll have complete access to the facilities as well as the other three facilities. Would that be worth the pause in your book? Um, maybe. I would say maybe. If the, if the Iranians, I mean, my big, I mean, I was part of the fight. I mean, I agree with President Trump that we should have, that we should have pulled out of the Obama, JCPOA, obviously. And I remember all of the nuances of that fight. And right when the Obama administration negotiated it, I remember what they said were the good, what would be the criteria for a good deal and how they felt so short of it. So I remember all those fights. And one of our big. problems that Republicans had with the JCPOA is that the IAEA inspectors, the hard part's not getting them in Iran. That's not an easy thing to do. The hard part is anytime, anywhere. very intrusive on our terms inspections of things like you mentioned pickax mountain where we suspect this enriched uranium activity is going on so i mean i i guess i would just say i saw wouldn't want to wait and see what what what it looks like i mean i would say that my my overall impression of all this is look i'm disappointed that we entered into this negotiating phase i understand why the president did it and i think it's important at this point though is to just clarify as we go along what the Iranians are doing and whether or not they're following the terms of the agreement or whether or not they're still tapping President Trump along. I think that's going to be really important for all of us over the next 60 days. And then, of course, I mean, look, President Trump, I mean, Epic Fury, Midnight Hammer. dramatic degradation of the Iranian military, their nuclear program, of which I am thrilled about. And so I'm still hopeful and confident that President Trump still understands also that the Strait of Hormuz cannot be under Iranian control at all. I mean, not only can they not be collecting tolls, they cannot have management of it. I mean, it needs to be free and open at international waters. And President Trump has said that that needs to be the case from a decade ago. I mean, I looked back at his statements from a decade ago, and he was saying that. And so I think that the fight over the Strait of Hormuz, we're just not anywhere to that being over at this point. I agree. I agree completely. And I hope you'll keep coming back and giving us your candid assessment. Rebecca Heinrichs from the Hudson Institute. Thank you so much. I'll be right back.

Welcome back, America. Terrorist attack in Montreal at a Jewish neighborhood near Abad. One policeman dead, one wounded attack, or at least one dead. One Israeli citizen, Michael Moshe, Mizrahi, was killed during the shooting, which again was near Habod. I'm joined now by Dr. Michael Oren from Israel. Dr. Oren, have you heard about this yet? Just what you have heard from the news. It was on the Israeli news tonight. I guess it's on the Times of Israel afterward. And we don't know yet. It is shocking as always, but not surprising. The Canadian government, Prime Minister Carney, himself admitted that Canada had failed to combat anti-Semitism throughout his country. And I visited Canada not so long ago. The Jewish community there said that there's no future for them in the country, that they can no longer send their kids to public school. I'm not going to be too dangerous. And I heard very similar story in Australia, and I was in Italy last week and heard the same thing from the leaders of the Italian Jewish community. This is a global plague, a scourge of anti-Semitism. It is, and when commentators in America, and I rebuked Tucker Carlson when he drew a circle around Habad with one of his conspiracy theories, Habbat is just always in the target. They're always going after Habbat. It happened in India. It's happened in a couple of places around the world, now Montreal. in Bandai Beach, Zaz al-Habad. Well, they're very visible and they're very present. They're very visible, they're very present. They're out there. Unlike other many Orthodox Jews or ultra-Orthodox Jews, they don't exclude themselves. They reach out. So they're easy targets. Okay, Michael, let me ask you about... The Switzerland talks, I think the best thing about him was that President Trump posted and the Iranians panicked. They threw up their hands. They got mad. They refused to shake hands. They left early. J.D. Van said they threatened to leave immediately because the president said, you know, restrain as Bala and don't threaten the straight. I don't think anything's going to come out of these talks. Do you? I don't know. There are three or four ways where the talks would collapse, one of which is if President Trump is playing for time. You know, 60 days, another 60 days, another 60 days gets your path beyond the midterm elections. Iran could overplay its hand and make the ridiculous demands, for example, the immediate withdrawal of American troops from the entire Middle East or charging exorbitant toll prices through the strait of Hormuz. That could happen. Donald Trump could come back and say, well, if you don't agree to what I want, I'm going to destroy you, which is pretty much what he said on this post yesterday. That could also happen. And also, Iran may die of its wounds, Hugh. We don't know how deeply. morally wounded Iran has been. And if it's not going to get economic release anytime soon, even if it does, who knows, they may die, we could have more massive uprising of the Iranian population. We don't know. But with that, I must tell you, the state of Israel tonight is in a state of depression. Everybody I have talked to is literally feel that they've had the breath knocked out of them.

And the recent thing was the reason kick in the chest came from this announcement from the administration that they're going to create a special unit to reduce friction in Lebanon. And that unit is going to be comprised of. Iran, Pakistan, and Qatar. Get this. Israel was not in it. Israel's not consulted by it. It's not putting the fox in charge of the house. It's like keeping the farmer out of the farm. And it's putting us in an utterly impossible situation. And we, Israelis just cannot believe this is happening to us. Well, Michael, isn't that just silly? I mean, you just discovered this tunnel complex that. Iran built with Hezbollah that's made of granite and extends all over the highest ridge going into northern galley. You're not going to withdraw, and most Americans don't think you should withdraw. And this deconfliction, I think that was a cover for failure. I really do think that that was just a talking point for a failed. I hope you're right. There's really news. The difference between the Biden terms of the Lebanon ceasefire from October 2024 and the current terms of the ceasefire. And one of the big differences is that Biden allowed Israel to react if there was an imminent threat or developing threat. And according to the Trump plan, Israel can only act if there's an imminent threat. Now, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came on TV tonight and said that Israel's going to react if it's an imminent threat. or developing threat. That was the key word, developing. Developing means you see a guy running with a missile. He's not ready to fire it, but he's carrying it. And it isn't going to react. So I just hope it's not putting us on a collision course for the Trump administration. I don't think it is because of the President Trump tweets this weekend, posts this weekend. Dr. Orrin, would you describe to people that tunnel complex and how it was, it's not something that happens without. a nation-state actor behind you. It's like the furor bunker. But it's subtly different than the tunnels in Gaza. The tunnels in Gaza, which were as long as distance between New York and Washington, believe it or not. We have something like the order of 350 to 450 to 450 miles of tunnels under Gaza. They were able to build those tunnels to dig them to that length because Gaza is made out of sand. But Lebanon is rock. It's granite. And to dig through granite, you'd need industrial capabilities. And this particular tunnel complex not only was dug deep underground with... It had iron doors, and it was the work of Iranian, Iranian engineers, Iranian technicians, and it was filled, by the way, with rockets and with drones that were ready and primed to destroy and kill Israelis. So has that been destroyed, and will the Israelis remain on top of that site and in the fort and then draw the new line there?

Well, there's another line beyond it, and the Israeli Army has reported that there are a number of Hezbollah terrorists hold up underground in this headquarters. And the big issue tonight is to what degree will an Israeli military move to destroy that headquarters? What degree will that create yet another friction point with the Trump administration? Do you remember when the... place in Mecca where the big rock is was seized by terrorists and French commandos had to go in and they dropped poison gas into the tunnels underneath the mosque. Don't. I remember this shortly. Yeah. So why not that? If the Saudis could do that to terrorists, why can't the Israelis? Well, I don't think you have to direct that question to somebody else in Washington, not to me. I'm all in favor of doing whatever you need to do to get rid of the tunnels. I put sea water into them, you know, fill them up with cement. But right now, the question is, we're at loggerheads. We're at loggerheads with this administration that wants to open the strait of her moves and keep it open to the flow of oil, wants gas prices to go down, and the Iranians know this. And so they're using Lebanon as leverage. And what the administration has done is basically recognize Iranian suzerainty, hegemony over Lebanon, depriving Lebanon of independence, and then threatening the fundamental security of this state. Now, that is a very severe situation, which we have to address. I agree that that would be. I just don't believe that's the case. I think maybe the vice president isn't as skilled at communicating. Resolute American support for Israel as others are. Maybe Secretary of Rivio will correct the record. Dr. Michael Warren, always good to talk to you. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Senator Tom Cotton joins me. He represents the state of Arkansas. He is the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He's on the Armed Services Committee. He's also the chair of the Republican Conference. Senator Cotton, let me begin with the terrorist attack in Montreal this afternoon. One police officer dead, one Israeli citizen dead. Another police officer wounded, at least one terrorist dead. At the same time that DSA candidates are running around New York attacking Israel. bleeding into anti-Semitism. Is there a connection between these things? Hugh, I don't want to speculate in part because I've been kind of out of the new cycle today working on other matters, but I just saw the headlines where I joined you, and obviously it's a terrible thing that happened in Montreal and wish the best for all the people who were harmed and the family of the officer who was killed. It certainly doesn't help to have... anti-Semitic zealots, whether they're in Canada or in New York City, riling up this kind of sentiment. And too many, too often in recent years, we've seen our Jewish fellow citizens subject to that kind of hatred and in some cases, violent attacks. That leads me to the talks in Switzerland this weekend. Qatar is announcing that there is a deconfliction.

arrangement between the United States, Lebanon, Iran, and Qatar. Israel's not involved. I can't believe we agreed to that. Do you think we agreed to that? Well, I hope the vice president didn't agree to that. As we've seen in multiple conflicting reports, what actually happened versus what Qatar Iran says happen is not always the case. But I agree. Most importantly, with what the president said over the weekend, that we're not going to restrain Israel from defending itself against a bloodthirsty terrorist cult, Hezbollah that has the blood of Americans on its hands as well. Iran is going to have to restrain its terrorist proxy if there is going to be any semblance of peace in Lebanon. Remember, Hugh, this comes at a time when the president of Lebanon has traveled to Washington and met with Marco Rubio, who's doing great work on this front as well. and said that Hezbollah is not Lebanon, and it does not speak for Lebanon. It is a terrorist organization that has seized in part the reins of power inside that country. But the Lebanese president himself, just like I suspect most normal Lebanese want their country back. They don't want to be a cat's paw for a run. Now, I'm not so exercised about the MOU as some of the conservative commentators on it, simply because I think it's half-time. It's a timeout, and we will be back after the election in combat operations with him unless they fold and capitulate. But in the meantime, I wonder, do you agree with that assessment? And what do you make of the fact that the president posted two things over the weekend, one of warning? Iran about Hezbollah and the other warning Iran about the strait. And the Iranian delegation had a fit. I mean, they wouldn't shake hands with anyone. They left early. They made terrible state. I think they didn't have instructions on how to respond to Trump posts. And so the president used X to destroy their plan. Yeah. Well, first off to you, I think to rejects. what many on the left are saying, what the media is saying, although I guess I repeat myself you, that this is somehow worse than Obama's deal or the Obama deal 2.0 or how we could have had the Obama deal without a war. First off, as you say, this is not some kind of comprehensive endorsement of Iran's nuclear infrastructure, but rather a modest extension of a ceasefire to try to permanently eliminate Iran's nuclear infrastructure. Second, and probably more important, Obama didn't precede his deal with three separate military strikes in Iran that destroyed their nuclear infrastructure and destroyed most of their military and killed their terrorist mastermind. So President Trump deserves credit. for leaving Iran weaker than it's been since 1979. Now, still, I do have concerns that certain aspects of the deal are set in the wrong direction, in particular the lifting of oil sanctions immediately. There are other concerns that are potential in the deal, like a reconstruction fund or allowing Iran to imposing kind of toll or fee on the Strait of Formulose. But again, those are more potential and speculative. And I hope that the president wouldn't take those steps.

over the next 60 days, but rather use the leverage he's built up with those military strikes to either get a permanent deal that eliminates Iran's nuclear program forever or exposes, once and for all, Iran's refusal to give up its nuclear ambitions and then finishes his job, as he said he would, over the weekend. So you just referred to Secretary Scott Bessent's lifting of oil. embargo on Iranian oil around the world for 60 days. Now, as I understand the deal, it's all about reciprocity. We let their ships through our block. They don't fire on the Strait of Hormuz. Okay, Secretary Scott Bessent gives them a waiver. We should get something. What I want are IAEA inspectors in Pickax Mountain. Do you know if that, is that your understanding that it's a step by step bit by bit? We get something, you get something process? Otherwise, I don't know what we're doing here. I don't hear you. And again, as we talk about at the outset, this is an example of the reports coming out of the meeting in Switzerland over the weekend or contradictory. The vice president said this morning that inspectors would be allowed back in, but I gather now that Iran is disputing that. So once again, Iran is playing a game of cat and mouse and speaking out of both sides of its mouth. So until we get further clarity, I... I don't know what actually was agreed to in Switzerland over the weekend. Let me switch to the home front where Democrats at least are clear. Senator Schatz from Hawaii, likely to be Dick Durbin's replacement as their whip, said today that he's not going to be coy. There are a million things that Trump can be impeached for. Do you expect, do voters know what happens if the Senate flips, why they have to elect Susan Collins and John Houston and Michael Whatley and Ashley Hinson and Ken Paxton? Because we cannot freeze the country in two years of democratic talking points.

I'm not sure yet. I mean, that's not something probably that most voters have concentrated on. They're still going about their daily business trying to raise their kids and make a living and improve their communities. But I think as we get into the fall campaign, the Democratic rhetoric will be exposed, and they can't contain themselves either. You know, last January, after Trump inauguration, Democratic leaders were urging their members not to talk about impeachment. And now they're all openly and excitingly talking about how they're doing shadow impeachment hearings. this year, so they'll be ready to impeach President Trump on January 3rd if they win the House. But I can't stress enough to your audience how vital it is that... Republicans controlled Senate, not only for potential Supreme Court nominations, other nominations for an important legislation, but also Hugh so we could swat away meritless and frivolous impeachment charges. If you were calling the Biden administration, the House impeached Alejandro Mayorkas, the Secretary of Homeland Security, Chuck Schumer established the president. The Senate could simply dismiss those articles impeachment. So a Republican Senate is a bulwark against... 24-hour impeachment versus a 24-month impeachment trial. Well said. And I didn't know about that precedent. One minute, Senator. Schatz's comments, do they increase the likelihood of reconciliation 3.0 out of fear that Democrats will simply not fund the Department of War. They won't give anything to the Pentagon.

Probably so, Hugh. I'm open to getting our military the funds it needs in any way if we can find Democrats who want to cooperate with us on a traditional appropriations bill that would also probably include some disaster relief for our farmers in other parts of the country that have faced natural disasters. I'd be fine with that. If they dig in their heels and say they're not going to fund our military, even though one of their main critiques, Hugh, is that we've wasted our munitions, but they're not going to vote to replenish it, then I would be open to using the reconciliation process to fund our military as well. Our troops need these funds, though. Senator Tom Cotton, always good to talk to you. Thank you for your regular appointment. I appreciate it. Don't go anywhere, America. I'll be right back on The Hugh Dewitt Show. Welcome back, America. I'm Judea. Join now by America's columnist, Salina is, of course, President Trump's favorite columnist. She's also a yinzer. She lives in Pittsburgh. Selena, here's the question. On Friday night's special report, my winner of the week was a German World Cup tourist by the name of Freddie L.A. 7. And Freddie is currently in Toronto. He's been through the American South. Everyone adopted him. Earlier today, about an hour ago, he posted. This is our plan for the coming days. He's in Toronto. The next game will attend is Germany's round of 32 match in Boston on the 29th. Since we have seven days to get there, we decided not to take the direct route and make a huge detour through Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a few other states. Any recommendations for places or cities to visit along the way are welcome. Now, if you look at his map on Act, he's going to drive the PA turnpike. So I don't know if he's going to make it to Boston. That's not really built. That's not an auto bond, right? Should he stop at Breeze Wood? What should he do? If I remember correctly, you, we were both stuck on the Pennsylvania Turnpike during a wild winter storm a couple of years ago. Yes, we will. Actually, I would think. I would take U.S. 30. I wouldn't take the turnpike. And yes, I'd definitely stop in Pittsburgh. I would have him go to the Fort Pitt Museum where the triangle is, where the fountain is, where the blockhouse still stands, and where our country began during the French and Indian War. He would have great views of Akershire Stadium and PNC Park. But then I'd take him to my German club, to Tonya Manicure Club, which has been there since before the Civil War, it predates the Civil War. And then I would take him on to maybe if he's staying in Pittsburgh another day. Definitely go see, I would take him to a steel mill. I would take them to the Robotics Center at Carnegie Mellon University. Then I would go directly out towards Somerset. You know, stop at Flight 93, the National Park there. Where, we're 25 years ago.

the country was attacked by terrorists. I would then go on to Bedford Springs. I would definitely, definitely stay in Bedford Springs. It's one of the oldest hotels in the entire country. 17 U.S. presidents have stayed there, including George Washington. And then I would go, I know he then has to head up towards Connecticut, so I would go to Scranton where Big Boy is literally right there in the rail yard. Well, I wanted to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and I want him to go stop and warn at the hot dog shop and sunrise pizza. But if he's going that way, is there any place to eat in Pittsburgh? I'm not aware of any good places to eat there. Oh, there's a ton of good places. I mean, obviously at my German club, where we have a German chef. But there is also some great Italian restaurants like Giasole, which is in Shadyside, or A La Familia, which is in Beltzuber. These are really great restaurants, locally owned by immigrants that came to this country. So, you know, there's a lot of great food. I thought you, I had bet that you were going to say, take him to a Pirates game and hope that your phenom pitcher who stopped by the Little League field the other night would be throwing that night. What's that kid's name? Skeen's, Paul Skeen's, Cy Young Award winner, might win it again this year. He's incredible. The work that the American team did in the world baseball classic was just sort of part of that whole. event of celebration together that began with the men's and women's hockey team, then went into the World Baseball Classic, and now with the World Cup. It's really been a great year to celebrate American exceptionalism. Freddie, you ought to follow Selena and talk to her on X about where to go. Now, Selena, I want to follow up on the video you posted yesterday. I think it was of your dad and your brothers going fishing for 70 years in a row on Father's Day. Is that what I take away from that? Well, they're always there, and this day changes every year. The opening day of smallmouth bass fishing in Ontario. And they've been going to the cabin since 1949. And my dad has been waving. If you look at the video, it's awesome. It's my dad waving to my mom who's standing on the dock. They have been sweetheart since they were 16, married since 21. But the really interesting thing is, is that 10 days ago, my dad had suffered a heart attack. Within 24 hours, he had two stints put in. And within 10 days, within 10 days, he drove 10 hours to Buckhorn, Ontario to go fishing with the family, as he has done since he went with his immigrant father in 1949. That is a fabulous Father's Day story and a salute to American medicine.

And I hope Freddie hears this or somebody tells him to send you a DM and connect with Selena Zito, let her take you out to the memorial. That's the best idea. That's really the very best idea. But try and keep them away from the Steelers fans and just don't let them. Yeah. Kidnapping is not what we want to have happened. And you can't go. What's the nasty part of town? There's a sketchy part of Pittsburgh. What's it called? I've never heard of this place. Oh, you are such a homer. You are such a homer. I'm definitely going to have a terrible towel if I meet him. Okay. It is a absolutely a must not go to. And in Ohio, you know Northern Ohio as well. I think in Youngstown, there's not much to see, right? But Cleveland, he could pick up some stuff. How about Michigan? Cleveland is great, Michigan is great. Youngstown is always great. I mean, I would go and eat at the MVR, for sure, play Bochie with the Cassizi family. Like, they would have a blast in Youngstown. I'd also go to the Butler Museum in Youngstown, which is amazing. He's not a museum. He's looking for big and bold. Did you see the Englishman post about going into Yosemite? No. I missed that. Oh, I've reposted it. And I think Freddie went to Niagara Falls. Did you see that one? I did see he went to Niagara Falls. That is a place that we stop every year going back and forth from the cottage. And it is a place that I'm always filled with wonder. I mean, Niagara Falls, the town is a kitchie. Niagara on the lake is perfectly preserved 19th century. It's absolutely beautiful. Niagara Falls, the city is kind of funky. I think he should go to Breezewood. We got 30 seconds. Yay or Neon Breezewood. in Breezewood. Although it's changing. They're diverting, they're taking that diversion off and there's going to be direct access. So the little small, unincorporated farm town of Breezewood, but only has 192 people living in it, is probably going to go back to a succession. Oh, that's too bad because it used to be the must stop place to travelers between. Ohio and D.C. with a million terrible hotels in every fastly joint in America. Selena Zito, Ollie, good to talk to you. Follow her on Exit Zito, Selena, and Freddie. If you're listening, get in touch with her. She is the perfect guide. Stay tuned to America. As America approaches its 250th, here's a question, do we still know the words that build our country? I'd like to recommend a remarkable new book from Mount Titano Media. called finding our words words that made america this collection brings together the leaders who articulated and drove the american mission their words shaped our understanding of liberty self-government courage and citizenship these profound words have been neglected but no longer

Whether you're a student, parent, teacher, or you just love American history. You'll find wisdom and inspiration in these pages. There's also a new audiobook edition featuring a distinguished cast of voices who bring you these historic species and bring them to life. Listen with the whole family or friends and family. This July 4th will mean more than ever when you read and listen to the words that made our nation exceptional. Visit mount titanomedia.com today and get your copy of finding our words, words that made America. That's mount titanomedia.com. My friends, you've probably seen the headlines are worse. Your latest bill. Big wireless is raising rates again. That means you could be paying more for the same service or getting pushed into a price share plan you simply do not need. That's not right. You can switch to consumer cellular right now and save an additional $50 when you go to consumer cellular.com slash hue and use the promo code Hugh 50. And if you happen to be over the age of 50, listen to this, you can get a single line with unlimited talk, text, and data for just $355. Remember, there are numbers 800, 411, 4154, 800 411 4454, 800 411 44. Consumer cellular ranks number one for network coverage and for customer satisfaction according to ACSI. And when you switch, you'll talk to an actual human being based right here in the United States. No long-term contracts, no hidden fees. You can keep your phone or choose a new one. Get an additional $50 off when you switch today using promo code Hugh 50. And do not forget, if you are over 50, you get a single line, unlimited, talk, text, and data for $35 a month. Visit consumer cellular.com slash hue and use promo code hue 50 or call 1-800-41144 and use promo code hue 50. I am so enormously happy to reintroduce you to Victor Davis Hansen, historian extraordinaire of the Hoover Foundation, Hillsdale College, author of this brand new book, The Counter Revolution, of which I have read more than half, and he's going to come back and finish this, I hope, more closer to pub date, but you can pre-order the counter-revolution. And it's not that I'm happy that the book's out, though. It's a fabulous book, as you'll find out as we go through our many segments today. But Victor's back. And he was doing touching ghost out. He had us all worried. Victor, how's your health? I'm getting stronger. It was, you know, I'm kind of in limbo because the mutation of the tumor they took out is not treatable by immunotherapy, but they think they got it. And at five months, the scans are still clean. Unfortunately, I had a massive bleed, and so I went back in for another four hours, you know, 30 minutes out, and I lost three liters. So I had...

At 72, it wasn't too good to get six transfusions, but I'm back, and my heart settled down. I had Afib and Takuk, all that stuff, but I'm out here on the farm walking five miles a day and trying to get back into things and hope I get to be. Well, you look terrific. You don't look like anything happened. I don't know if you feel terrific, but you look terrific, and the book's terrific. When did you finish writing this after the surgery? No, you know what? It was very funny. Last year, I got the flu in February, March, and something was wrong. I had just gotten over COVID, and I had this big, they found a mass in my lung, but they kept pet, MRI, CT, you know, you don't smoke, you jog, you don't drink, you can't have cancer, it doesn't look like cancer, don't worry, and that went on all year. So when I saw you last time, I had cancer, but I was told I didn't have it. And it grew, you know, the mass was seven centimeters. That's about your size of your, you know, baseball. But the invasive part, the cancerous was only the size of a golf ball, so that was good. But it was a very rare thing called, they call it pseudonymonia. It's mucanus adenoma carcinoma. It looks like a jellyfish. And inside the jellyfish there was a tumor. But they thought that it was just the moment of COVID. Looks like a jelly fishing. Sounds like the winning answer at the National Spelling Bee. I don't think you can say that again, can you? I can say it. I've heard it so many times, but I think they have six or seven thousand surgeries at Stanford, and they don't find this in the lung very often, maybe five or six times a year. Well, we're grateful. I was very lucky they found it. We're very worried about you, and Dr. Arn would give us an update now and then from Hillsdale. And we would follow your growth. He's a great guy. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate both of your concern. Congratulations on the book. So let's turn to the counter-revolution. However, first, I want to ask you about where we are in the war with Iran and your assessment of the war, not the midnight hammer. That's covered in the counter-revolution, but your assessment of part two. I think I confess I have an idiosyncratic view. I'm not as pessimistic. There's elements in it, of course, that... that I'm worried about, but we have military defeated the enemy, but we haven't strategically defeated them, and that would require more force. And when people talk, well, we didn't get the subsidies stopped to the terrorist organizations or we don't have all the missiles. That requires really Iran to be a defeated protectorate with regime change, and it could come, I hope. But...

We did that in Iraq and Afghanistan. We went in there, we removed the regime, and we dictated to them. And for a brief period, they obeyed. But that wasn't sustainable at, you know, 53,000 wounded, 7,000 dead, $2 trillion. So we're not going to do that, and that means you're not going to have the same level. of coercion. But I'm kind of confident in this sense that long-term things are in our favor. When the people come out, when the kinetic part is over, they're going to see a lot of devastation that we haven't seen because we don't have ground troops or reporters on the ground. And they're going to be very, very upset. And they already are, especially if this regime tries to take scarce... money and reinvested in this destroyed military nuclear industrial complex, which I think they'll try to do. So that's one thing. The long term for the straight is not good for them. You know, you know better than I that the Gulf states are looking to expand or create new pipelines to the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, which would make it... would make them independent as oil producers from the strait, but it would make Iran actually more dependent because people could shut them down without worrying about the Gulf State exports. And then, of course, we haven't done what Clinton did, and to an extent Obama did in Libya. Clinton was really in trouble in 1999 with Serbia. It was a similar bombing campaign. I look back at day 45, Milosevic was not budging, and then he started to hit the Danube bridges to great criticism and took them all out. and shut down all the commerce of Belgrade, and that didn't do it good. And then at day 55, 60, he hit the grid, and he started bombing with graphite chaff, and he knocked it out almost every day. They tried to rebuild it. He knocked it out. And what I'm getting at is Trump has a whole array of those dual-use targets that we have not used yet. And so I think what we're seeing now is this agreement was to buy time. to see if he can buck history and preserve his congressional majorities in the House and Senate and get the price of gas down and limit the reaction to the inevitable lie and cheating by Iran to tit for tat until he can get past the midterms. And then I think if they continue, he's going to unload on them. So, Victor, I share your assessment. I am neither excited nor... devastated by the MOU because I think it's a punt. Now I've taken to call it. It's halftime in an American football sense. And we're in the locker room drawing up our battle damage assessment and deciding what to do. And halftime, I think, is going to continue until after the election. But there was one great thing about this weekend, which is the Iranian delegation arrived in Switzerland. They're cut off from Vahidi and Hamini 2.0 or whoever's run in the country.

the coalition of the still alive in Iran, and they can't talk to him. And then Trump fires off two posts, one about Lebanon and one threatening the strait. And they lose it. They really melt down. And they throw a fit, and they won't shake hands, and they storm out of the room, and they were going to leave early, and maybe they did leave early. I can't really tell. Well, all that tells me is that Trump's... posts landed on their target, and they're afraid of Trump, and they didn't know what to do because the regime is fractured. So Trump still has the power of posting, and when he makes a threat, he's got it backed up by doing stuff in the past. What do you make of that as such? Yes. No, that's exactly right. And remember, one of the most fallacious things are these people who are comparing it to Obama and say, well, we got just what Obama. negotiated that. He negotiated in 2015 from abject weakness. They knew he would not ever use force. And they were in their ascendancy. They were bragging. They were importing Chinese and Russian air defenses. They had 200 combat aircraft. They had all these missiles they were developing, etc., etc. Now... They don't have any air defenses. This is a very unique situation where any time the United States wants to reply to Iran or Israel or the Gulf states who have 600 combat aircraft, they can do it with near impunity. They're completely defenseless for the moment. I think it's going to be a long moment. So we've never been in a situation. So when you say it's like the 2015, no, we had no leverage over them. And it showed with the results. We have a lot of leverage. And then more importantly, We don't know the denominator number of the missiles. We only know the numerator, how many we would destroy it. But given that, still, their Navy, their Air Force, their air defenses, their command and control, they've suffered a level of damage that we have never really inflicted on anybody, probably since the Korean War. And it was a brilliant campaign, and it's not over yet. So I think we're in a position in the long term of strength. There's new alliances emerging. China and Russia's clients, whether it's Venezuela or Syria or Iran, have been diminished. And we're really, given the turn of events in Ukraine, I think if you, Panama, all of these conservative governments that are being. elected in South America. I think really we've turned the page and we're in a very advantageous position. So, Victor, you're an analyst of history. You're a professor of classics, but also military history. Very few revolutions in warfare occur that you don't know about all the way back to Persia versus Greece and the Peloponnesian wars all the way through World War II. And as you just said, Korea, war has changed. We have one minute. How much on a scale of zero to 100 percent has war changed in 25 years?

Well, I think the last year has seen the most radical change in warfare in my lifetime because it's made all of the traditional advantages of very expensive weapons of war, $80 million. aircraft, jets, $50,000 individual missile. They've kind of made them, they've given parity with cheap drones. And we're going back to the World War II paradigm of quantity and good quality, but quality not at the expense of quantity. And I think that's a welcome return and it will help us because nobody makes quantity better than we can. Victor will be back with me in hour three at five o'clock, East Coast time, two o'clock, West Coast time to talk about the counter-revolution in between then and now. You can go and order it, and Amazon, Barnes & Noble and everywhere. It'll show up on the 25th anniversary of 9-11. I think it is a date designed by Victor. We'll talk about it with him. promised earlier if you heard Victor Davis Hanson an hour or two. He's back for most of this hour. His brand new book is The Counter Revolution, and I want to dive into it. It's the first of what I hope are two interviews. First half in the conclusion today, second half is we get closer to pub date on September 11th. But go and pre-order it right now at Amazon or Barnes & Noble or anywhere. So you get it on the first day that it's available. Victor, fabulous book. I don't think anyone else. can write quite as clearly about Trump as you do because President Trump is an enigma wrapped inside controversy, wrapped inside a crazy Democratic party, and you peel off all those levels. But I want to start with where does he rank in terms of the but-for people. And the but-for people are people, but for whom we would not have the America that we have in 2025. So, you know, it's like Lincoln. And a counter-example would be... Justice Taney or General Grant or George Marshall, people but for whom their existence, we would not be here today. How does Trump rate among our greats? Well, I think he's easily in the top 10. If he had not been elected in 2016 and then again... I don't think we'd have a border. I think instead of 53 million foreign born today, 16% of our population, we would have 60 or 70 million. They were letting in, as you know, you 10,000 a day under Biden. That was unsustainable and 500,000 criminals. He stopped that. He didn't just reduce it. He stopped it. And the other thing that's really fascinating, this time around, he didn't treat symptoms. He said there's a deeper pathology in this country, and I only have four years, but I'm not just going to attack the media. I'm going to defund PBS, if I can, in NPR, and I'm going to sue people. He didn't just say...

I'm going to repeal, try to pump more. I'm going to go after the new green deal, the subsidies, the solar, the wind, make it market-orientated, but I'm going to make us the largest producer of gas and oil in the history of civilization. He didn't just say that, you know what, the universities are unfair. I'm going to get, I'm going to talk to him and yell at him. He said, I'm going to look at how they overcharge on government grants. I'm going to look at their... free, tax-free endowment income. I'm going to look at their violations of the Civil Rights Act. I'm going to look at their violations of the Bill of Rights, and he really put the fear of God into them. So I could go on, but this is different. He's looking at symptomology to end this project, and I didn't think that any president would try that, but he did. It's much different. I can't figure it out. They're all saying the first administration was much more sober and judicious. That was only because it wasn't as ambitious as this one. He's trying to change the very system and repeal almost 100 years of progressivism. And he's succeeding because he's radicalized the Democrats and we'll come back to that. But I want to let people hear your words from page 35. This is Victor Davis Hansen in the Counter-Revolution. Trump's reemergence after four long years of political exile marked the most dramatic political comeback in American presidential history. His climb from the abyss to the summit proved far more stunning than once defeated Andrew Jackson's defiant 1828 victory. It was more unlikely than the return of Grover Cleveland of the presidency in 1892. Neither Harry Truman's shocking 1948 upset. nor Richard Nixon's 1968 resurrection was improbable as Trump's political rebirth. It is perhaps comparable only to the remarkable return from the wilderness as prime minister in the darkest moments of 1940 by Winston Churchill, a statesman for decades deemed too erratic and too self-absorbed to ever lead Great Britain. Now, I read there an objective assessment of his political arc. That's got nothing to do with his policies or his values or what you think of his character, and we'll get to that. But objectively, I don't think anyone can argue with that, can they? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think anybody could have. I went back and looked at the polls you after January 6th. Ron DeSantis at one point was ahead by 30 points. And then there were people that were his closest advisors. People had worked for him, had turned on him. Mitch McConnell said I'm so happy that this SOB hung him, basically hung himself. There wasn't, he didn't have support. And he was, you know, he was in his late. mid to late 70s and yet he not only fought five civil and criminal courtroom dramas but each time he turned him to his advantage his polls went up when everybody was riding him off I mean it was and that no one still to this day appreciates what he went through I mean on one day just three days after he asked announced his candidacy in the White House on the same day

Letitia James was there. We don't know why she was there. We do know Fani Willis sent Nathan Wade to meet with the White House counsel that same day. That same day Biden appointed. Jack Smith is a special prosecutor. And that same day, Michael Colangelo resigned from number three after he'd come from Letitia James's circus back into Alvin Bragg. You had the whole thing planned in the White House just three days after he announced he was going to run again. And they all were for naught, basically. And everybody was saying he had no chance at all. And it was amazing how many people abandoned him and thought he was all through. I thought he was done. I've written him off twice, Victor. I thought he was done after January 6th. I thought he was done after Hollywood access. I still voted for him, but I waited until the very last day, but I called on him to get off the ticket. So I, too, just like the conventional wisdom everywhere, just thought he was a dead man walking. And you isolate three things, which I want people to understand. Number one. He views serial setbacks or downfalls as transitory. Like he gets up every day and says, I'm a new man, I'm going to win today. He has confidence in second and third chances. Number two, his energy is physical. Energy is extraordinary. Yes. You quote one senior advisor, the boss doesn't sleep, so you try not to sleep. The pace is punishing. And then three, he's got a mastery of the technical new media. He understands how you communicate. Those three things are a powerful triangle. They are, and... He doesn't, I think most people, I know I fall in that category. When I'm criticized, I get self-intruth. You know, did I do something wrong? How can I prove myself? His attitude is, we all do something wrong. So what? And I'm going to get more of it and more of it. But my basic view of the world, the basic way our operate is not going to change. So it's more of any bulldozes. You can criticize it. But if you're in circle, you're encircled by enemies, that type of. Open defiance is very rare. And he's also got a brilliant way of looking at the media and turning a setback or an attack into an advantage. Basically, when Kamala Harris said he was lying that she did work at McDonald's, all of a sudden he gets millions of dollars of free publicity by working at McDonald's in that one scene where the Indian-American couple says, you know, he says, You know, we're nobody. He said, no, no, you're somebody. And that was a moment that really shocked people. And then the garbage truck, they called him, Biden called him. I don't think anybody could.

could perform like that and think up these stunts and fill these rallies in a way that he's a master. I've never seen Madison Square Garden. Everybody said it was a menagerie. When he walked in there with Dana White, Joe Rogan, Tulsa, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., it was almost as if it was every type of eccentric person, but each one with a constituency. And he had them all together and to a, you know, thunderous applause when he marched in. He also had, as you've said, the gift of unimpressive opponents. I've quoted you a couple of times this weekend when Democrats asked me about him. Well, Victor Davis-Hanson said he's lucky. He's got the gift of unimpressive opponents. There may be the most unimpressive three Democrats in a row, Clinton, Biden, Harris. Yeah, I think so. And they're forced multipliers because they hate him so much that they don't expand. They don't expand their repertoire. They don't bring in advisors. They just think that if I double down and call him a fascist and say he's a rapist and say he's a criminal, if I do it enough. that he's going to crack or his supporters are going to turn on him, and it has the exact opposite effect on every instance. And he does that he was very, but he's also, he never, he talked about running as a third candidate for years, but he did something that was very wise that other third candidates didn't. He never challenged an incumbent. Republican president and he waited until there was no incumbent Republican on the ticket in 2016. And then he knew that there was no incumbent Democrat on the ticket. So it was a wide open race with Hillary. That was his moment and he took it. And then more importantly, in 2024, he was not afraid of She's the first woman, Kamala Harris. She's a mixed non-white ancestry. She's D-I-E-I armored-plated, don't, you know, he didn't care. He took her on as anybody else. And she was probably the, in his, I think you're right, and I think I said she was the most in-ep candidate anyone's ever faced. And hopefully she's back again for whomever our nominee is. Victor Davis Hansen coming right back after the break. The book is The Counter Revolution. It's available for pre-order right now, and you ought to go in pre-order. We're going to go to The Endless Array of Anti-Trumpers, which Victor covers at great length in The Counter Revolution. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. My guest is our is Victor Davis Hansen. His brand new book is... The Counter Revolution. It's available at Amazon at Barnes & Noble. It's going to be a huge bestseller. President Trump's going to enjoy reading it. He may call you up and yell at you about a couple of things, Victor, but I don't think you're flappable anymore. I want to go back and draw on your World War II extensive knowledge. Some of Victor's best books are about World War II. And you remember a suicide clip on Saipan where a thousand Japanese civilians jumped over the cliff rather than be, you know, taken care of by American Marines because they were so afraid. Reportedly 20,000. I don't know if that's correct, but that was at the time people claimed that much. I don't know if it was verifiable. Do you think the never Trumpers are like those people that they've lost their minds and they're going over the cliff because he's deranged them? The evidence suggests. So if you take a few examples, nobody was more sober and judicious than John Bolton. He was very careful. He was a Washington insider. But what rage or what hatred or venom drove him to think that he could be the national security advisor of the United States in classified meetings and then transcribe. conversations or discussions and mail him to his wife and daughter and get away with it. He was rebuked in 2020 during the campaign when they tried to stop the publication of that memoir, and the federal judge lectured him and said, we can't stop the book, it's out, but you're going to be in big trouble if you continue, and he was. And, you know, Bill Crystal made a lifetime of trying to explain the conservative cause along with George Will. What happened to Bill Crystal? All he had to do was say that I principally disagree with Donald Trump, but he just endorsed Zohran Mamdani, a socialist communist communist, that so much hatred he had. George Will was one of the finest conservative stylists and essayists, but each column again and again and again was on the same topic. The other day, some of the people on the right were complaining, and they said, well, Trump is being run by neocons. He's being run by pro-Israel. And the idea was that there's some Jewish cabal and these neocons are going to get us. And I thought to myself, well, who are the supposed Jewish neocons? Max Boot, Elliot Cohen. Mona Chiron, Bill Crystal, you name it, they're all on the left. They're not, they've all, they're all apostates. They're not running anything in Trump's cabinet. So all of the people that we grew up with is voices of the conservative movement. Almost all of the luminaries completely lost it. And I think it tells us a lot about what.

Their view of themselves were. They really did sincerely believe in 2015. If they wrote an essay and said, that's it, you can't vote for this person. Or they were on an ABC or even a Fox discussion and they said, he's toxic. that people were going to listen to him. They couldn't be like Charles Cruthheimer. He would disagree with Trump and did not like him, but was wise enough not to go to that extreme and understood that just because his methodologies are offensive or you disagree with him adamantly on one or two issues, that he was preferable to the hard left candidate. That was the people who could do that. Many of the never-trumper's like, um, our friends at National Review, Rich Lowry and others, our friends at commentary, they have come back from that position. They have. They have. And Elliot Cohen the other day did a podcast with Aaron McLean in the School of War, and when he admitted that he had gone overboard in 2015 and that he's older now and wiser now, and now he's just going to assess development by development, which is prudent. But I want to go back to the why. You wrote about... What were the never-Trumpers motive for opposing Trump, a candidate with agenda that in roughly four-fifth of its policies matched their lifelong beliefs? You have a lot of answers, but before I read it, I thought mostly they were disintermediated from their influence. Their ambitions were dashed. Now, some of it was purely about money, and some of it, as you note, is the aesthetic. They simply could not reconcile themselves to the aesthetic of the guy from Queens. with the gold and the Trump Tower, big, bold, brash, loud, golf courses all over the world, that sort of thing. But they were not that. I really think they were disintermediated, so they couldn't come back. They went overboard. They went over the cliff. Yeah, they did, and they misjudge their influence. And more importantly, they put too high a premium on resumes, curriculum we tie, Washington experience, being an insider, rhetorical skills. And they didn't understand that somebody who survived in New York, sometimes by skin of his teeth, who had to deal with. dubious unions, crooked politicians, green fanatics, hyperregulators, the DEI industry. And out of that, Maloo could build anything and build it. That required a set of skill sets that they were not appreciative of. They didn't understand that. And they didn't? They didn't understand it at all. Well, they didn't see things like Charlie Kirk either. And I appreciate, as a former colleague of Charlie, that you write, the legacy media never appreciated that the new student conservative activism on campus was really a protest movement directed at the paralytic left-wing establishment. I think of the frat boys who are out there defending the flag on various campuses like UNC, et cetera. And they were doing basic patriotic standard college kids stuff.

But the left had so entrenched itself and combined with a never-trump, they were unaware of politics. They were so wrapped up in their hatred of Trump that they were unaware of stuff. They weren't. They didn't. Charlie Kirk was an authentic political genius in the sense that he knew that it was a natural tendency of youth to rebel. And he took that rebelliousness and redefined who they were rebelling against. He said it's not a bunch of old white corporate people of the 60s that are running things. It's a insidious, left-wing, corporate, academic. K through 12, the media, popular entertainment sports, these people are running it. And if you want to rebel against the establishment, that's the establishment. And they are the ones that are making it very hard to pay back your loans or to buy a home or to get married at 23. And that was a very powerful, it seems a simplistic message, but that had a lot of insight that people had not appreciated it. He created counter-revolutionaries that were young. And out of that, they could be young and hip and cool by rebelling against the establishment, which is, as we all know, is left-wing. But he really articulated that in a very clever way. So, Victor, you and I... our old guys, and that was quite a blow to lose someone of that talent. Are you an optimist that others will step up to carry that forward? There's cotton, there's JD Vance, there are a bunch of 40-somethings, but what about the 20-somethings? I don't know much about the 20-somethings, but the people between 40 and 60s that you talked about, they're much more impressive. We have a much bigger field than the Democrats. If you look at their people at that age, whether it's James Talarico or Graham Platner. or Abdul El-Sayed that are running or the squad or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, they're not going to, they're not going to appeal to 51% of the people. So I'm very confident that what used to be the young Turks of the Republican Party have matured, and they're really good. But I hope somebody can stand up and take. We've had a lot of blows. We lost Rush. Dennis Prager's been paralyzed. And Charlie Kirk, those people are, and then we had some people who, were apostates and defected over to the hard right, anti-Semitic right. And that was a blow, too. We do have the Daily Wire, and we have some great podcasters, and we've got some amazing new platforms like the Salem News Channel. I'll be right back with Victor Davis Hanson, and we'll talk some more about what Trump did to the Democrats, because that's a story, too. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Victor, this is a rather short segment, six minutes, but I want to go to your Chapter 3, where you talk about the new Jacobin Democrats. And people don't know what Jacobins are. There are French revolutionaries who sat on the far left and were murderers. They were killers. And one of Trump's achievements is he drove the Democrats insane. I think that's a short way of summarizing Chapter 3. They're nuts now. And tomorrow night in New York, they're going to elect four more DSA candidates who are anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, left-wing socialist extremists. Do you think the Democrats recover from this? I'm not sure. I mean, they did after McGovern, but it took them Bill Clinton, and it can take a decade. Jimmy Carter was just a parenthesis. They didn't really recover for a long, long time until they got Clinton and they went back to the center. These people are year zero people. I mean, the Jacobins renamed the days of the week, the months, et cetera, year zero. But these people tried to do the, you know, the 1619 project, a new foundational date. They changed the vocabulary. I don't even know what Latinx means. I live in a community 95% Hispanic. Nobody knows what it means. They were changing the name. tore down statues, Earl Warren's name disappeared from Bolt Hall. I mean, I walked to my office one day, and I said, where is Hunipio Serra's circle? Where the tower, they said, doesn't exist. I said, it does. It's been here since I was a student here. No, they renamed it. He whipped indigenous people when he was a... A priest. So they were trying to remake every aspect of American life. And whether it was the professional sports, take a knee, or it was kind of a continuance of Me Too. And it was really a scary time, you know, and Donald Trump stopped it. Well, now they've gone to violence, Victor. Yeah, they have. They've gone to violence. There was a continue to do it. There's a plot to attack the White House during the UFC event. And that's just the most recent, the killing of Brian, the health care executive in New York, Luigi Mangione, all that stuff. We've got, we're back to the late 60s, early 70s. You think it's gone that far? I think it has. You know, Trump says things that sound extreme. Like when he talks about the illegal aliens, and illegal alien was reportedly one of the architects of this latest effort to kill Trump. And when you read about it, it was almost macarb. They were going to cause panic at the event and then use snipers to pick people off in a predetermined trajectory. These people are very dangerous.

They are self-defeating, though. When you see the types of anti-ice, when you get a lot of elderly... prosperous, upscale elites, and they're waving plastic fallacies at working-class Mexican-American people who are in ICE, which is 40% Mexican-American. And they're trying to protect their communities from illegal aliens, and they suffer from gangs and overcrowded social services. And then you have these very privileged white people that are elderly from the 60s, and they're very gross. and obscene and they're attacking the middle classes in ICE. It really was, they don't understand how they appeal to most people. They really turn people off. And I hope they keep going. You also conclude in that chapter, Trump's MAGA conservative agenda was far more revolutionary than even Reagan's and a terrified Democrats even more. I don't think that's ended. And I'm not sure that the Republican Party. We'll talk about that next segment. I don't think anyone's backing away from that agenda with the exception of perhaps tariffs, which I still continue to hate. What do you think about the agenda, Victor? Well, I think he's like an eagle. He surveys a landscape and he has a certain... predetermined agenda, but then he says, what, does this issue a 70, 30, 60, 40, 80? Yes, the border. Is this DEI? Yes. Is this transgender issue? Yes. And when he lops onto it, people think he's provocative or extremists, but he knows in advance that the people are with him on that particular issue. And he doesn't get into the other things as much as conservatives might like, like abortion, for example. I mean, he's against nine, you know, to the moment of birth and all that, as he should be. But he knows where the money is as far as these issues. And that's why one of the reasons he's been very successful, this counter-revolution. I will be right back with one more segment with Victor in part one of what will be a two-part interview. We'll have them back before the book drops. The counter-revolution can be pre-ordered, though. It's at Amazon right now, and I can tell you right now that you will be very... satisfied. You have a lot of answers to the question, but when we come back, what did Donald Trump do to the Republican Party? Because we've talked about what he did, the Democrats, what he did to the agenda, what he did for the country, but what did he do to the GOP? We'll talk about it after the break. Don't go anywhere. Victor Davis-Henson. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Victor Davis Hansen's here for the final segment of this interview about his brand new book, The Counter Revolution, which you can pre-order at Amazon. Victor, I wanted to focus in on the GOP. I've been a Republican my whole life. My first campaign was in 1974. I worked for Jerry Ford in 1976. I am an establishment Republican. I'm from the Midwest. It's just classic Bob Taft and Jerry Ford Republicanism. And it's usually quiet and it's polite. Donald Trump is nothing like that. But you note that he's been in charge of the party for 10 years. But even five years before he came along, the Tea Party blew up and sort of plowed the field for him in which to plant. Now, he's been in charge of the GOP off and on for 10 years. What's he done to it, in your view? Well, he took the idea of class, and he got rid of race, and he substituted with class. One of his messages was, if you're Hispanic electrician or you're a black truck driver or you're a white assembly worker, you have more in common with each other and us than each one of you do with the people on the view, for example, or Barack Obama. And he got... you know, variously, perhaps 25% or 26% of the black male vote. He probably got 51% of Hispanics, 58% of Hispanic men. That seems impossible for the Republican. We had fine candidates. The two Bushes were fine people. John McCain was a fine man, Mitt Romney, but they were all easily caricatured as an out-of-touch aristocracy. And it should have been applicable to Donald Trump. He was a billionaire. He was privileged. He grew up with wealth. something about his, the way he felt comfortable with the working classes, and therefore he said, we're not going to touch Social Security. I think he might have wanted to reform. It would have been wise. But he wasn't afraid of the tariff issue. He talked about jobs, foreign investment. If you come over to a country, you have to hire America. And that really resonated. And so the... Democrats were very, they had lost 10, the Republicans had lost 10 to 15 million white males that were not participating or they had voted for Obama. And Trump won them back. And so that was a startling achievement for Republican to get that, the Hispanic vote, or get 20% more Asian votes or even get any of the black vote. to the degree that he did. And that was all because he was trying to create a class solidarity. But he didn't do it with class warfare. It was just that we're going to emphasize the middle classes with energy development. And that's why he was so paranoid about the price of gas. All of us in California said, why is the country panicking? We've been paying $6 for a long time. But his point of view was, I know my supporters, and I know they can't function on $5 a gallon gas. and I'm going to get it down. And that drives him more than anything to solidify the middle class. And he brings them together in an ecumenical fashion. Can he hold it? And this is a bigger question than just the middle class. When you throw the door open and you say, come in, I'm an opportunity guy. I want every boat to rise with a rising tide. I want to grow, grow, grow, grow. Through that door came some anti-Semites. And this alarms me. In fact, we ought to be.

the refuge, we being Republicans, ought to be the refuge of every supporter of Israel, Jewish, and non-Jewish in America, because the Democratic Party is anti-Semitic. We're not, except for a few dark corners of the party. Does he have to take that on directly? Is that poison for the GOP? Yeah, it is. I think both of us have lost a lot of friends over this issue. Oh, yeah. And I have. And it's a terrible thing because It's anti-empirical. The only... liberal, open, humane society to tell you the truth that's consensual is Israel. And it's been a wonderful ally. We wouldn't have been able to conduct the mission last June to take out the nuclear facilities if Israel hadn't have taken out the air defenses before it at great risk. So almost everything they say, the Jewish American community has been one of the greatest assets to America. But this idea that it's a dark cabal and they're running things, and the problem with the Jewish community is it's dissipating, it's intermarrying, it's secularizing. It's like the Greek American lobby. And it's not nearly as powerful as the new emerging Muslim community. So it doesn't have the power that is attributed to them. And I think... I don't know how he has to speak up against it. And I think JD Vance, I like him. I respect him. I've met him. But I was disappointed that he took on Israel in the fashion he did because he mischaracterized so many things. I hope he could, I hope he correct. I hope so, too. I want to close by talking about the end of your book. And I'm doing this out of order because I want people to know. You write that Trump wants America to be a colossus bestriding the world. So do I, because we're a great and good nation. Do you think most Americans are comfortable with, or at least a majority of voters, are comfortable with the idea of American Colossus? I am. Yeah, I think the majority are. But even... To, you know, paraphrase, pericles, in the heart of everybody, there's a desire to be preeminent. And even the left, under the, they wanted to be preeminent in a different way with Obama. But what he has done, he has taken Silicon Valley and all of these entrepreneurs, Elon Musk or David Sachs or Mark Zook, and he said to them, I'm not going to get into politics with you, but I am going to protect you. I'm going to protect you from European censorship, and I'm antitrust laws, but you have to do one thing for us. You have to make America permanent. Elon Musk, you've got to have more satellites than all of the European continent together in one year. You know, we're going to be the top in AI. We're going to get the top in robotics. We're going to be the top in crypto. We're going to be the top in Genet. It's almost like the War Production Board of World War II and William Newton, Henry Kaiser.

All of them were very anti. Roosevelt, but he was able to say, just suspend the politics and make us produce more and be greater than the Axis powers. And it's very exciting to see all of these young people that were left wing are now frantically trying to make drones and hypersounding missiles and change the paradigm of weapons procurement. And it's very patriotic. I was very surprised at that. But it was Trump's idea that I don't care what your ideology is. I just want you now to use all of your expertise. to beat the competition and to make us preeminent. Last question, Victor, 30 seconds. I am not afraid of Caesarism. I really am not, because I think the Constitution is very strong. Do you agree or disagree with me? I agree entirely. I was very worried. Caesarism will come not from the right because the right traditionally has had a hostile view with the press and the institutions have been left-wing, and they still are. It'll come from a suave, rhetorically speaking, left-wing people that the press will give it. And we saw a glimpse of that with Obama. I think you're right, and I'm glad that glimpse is over. Victor Davis Hansen again, so good to have you back. I look forward to talking to you a couple of months about part two of my long interview on the Counter Revolution. Available in bookstores soon at Amazon right now. Victor Davis Hansen can be followed at X at VD. Hansen, and boy, it's great to have you back. In 2025, the FBI reported that Americans lost more than $21 billion to fraud and identity theft. Identity thieves can steal your Social Security. number, open credit accounts in your name, take over online accounts, and create financial headaches that can take months to fix. Most people don't realize they've been targeted until the damage is already done. That's why more families are turning to ARA. Aura helps protect your identity with fraud alerts, credit monitoring, dark web monitoring, and up to $5 million in identity theft protection. If something does happen, ARA's 24-7 U.S.-based support team can help guide you through the recovery. process. You also get a VPN, antivirus protection, password manager, and scam protection, all in one app. Don't wait until you're a victim. Protect yourself and your family today. Start your free trial at aura.com slash safe. That's aura, a ura.com slash safe.