Iran fires at freighters again

Your education is more than a path to a degree. At Regent University, it's an important step in God's plan for your career. It's where you'll be equipped to lead and serve with purpose. It's where 40,000 graduates have prepared to fulfill their callings, and so can you. Choose a top ringed program from over 150 areas of study, on campus or online, and watch what God will do. Learn more at regent.edu. That's regent.edu. Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there. And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Hugh for Hillsdale.com, or just Google, Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale. Good morning, Grace, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Welcome to the Thursday edition of the program. A lot of news today. Three big Supreme Court decisions, all going the way of originalists. We also have Iran attacking a tanker, or a freighter, actually, freighter in the Strait of Hormuz, Singapore flag, but it was an attack by the IRGC. Nevertheless, no response yet from the White House. We'll come back around to all that. But I want to begin with my first guest, Executive Editor of Commentary Magazine, Abe Greenwald. Abe, I want to begin by just your broad reaction to Tuesday night's elections in New York. What did it say to you? You're a New Yorker. You're completely a New Yorker. What did it say to you about New York? Sadly, it didn't say anything to me about New York that I didn't believe about New York in its present state on Monday. To my mind, a city that is thoroughly capable of putting someone like Zohran Mamdani in Gracie Mansion is more than capable of sending a whole host of socialists and radicals to Congress and elsewhere. I think we have yet to... take seriously the meaning of what Zohran Mamdani's election meant for New York, the Democratic Party, and the future of the United States. So, um... Abe, the electorate, as I think was ported out on the commentary podcast today, was very small. It was 20% of the Democrats in those districts and the three hard-left DSAers who ran on anti-West, anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic platforms. They all got upper... middle income or upper class white people with advanced college degrees. They're not winning the underclass. They're not winning the working class. They're working the overeducated class. What do you put that down to?

Well, and you also have to realize what a small percentage of New York we are talking about here, right? Because not a lot of people came out to vote. And if they won something like 7% of the 17% of New York Democrats who came out to vote, we're talking about a sort of tiny wedge of the city. But this is not new. Rich white radicals. have been boosting wokeism, radicalism, the Intifada rhetoric, and the anti-Israel anti-Western colonialist theory of Western civilization. And they... never speak to the actual minorities that they claim to speak for. In fact, you can always tell the radical cause by the fact that it always ends up harming the very population that it ends up speaking for, whether that's Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter, resulting in a spike in homicides, particularly in black communities, or whether that's the pro-Hamas groups keeping the Palestinians under. the boot of Hamas, and so on. So this is all the same crowd. Oh, we've seen it again and again and again. I hope we have queued up, Adam, or Dwayne, the Zohran Mamdani quote that we used yesterday, because I think I might use it a lot in the Weeksick Head. Here is Zohran Mamdani yesterday, Abe. The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters. These monsters take many forms today. In those who fund television ads that blanket the airwaves with misleading and bad faith attacks about Claire, Brad, and Dari, those who would rather spend far more on political contributions than they would ever be made to pay in taxes. In APEC, A-PAC. So, Monsters, Abe. Monsters. A-PAC. A-PAC. And then called on it. That was on Monday, not yesterday. Called on it, he said, well, there were a lot of groups besides A-PAC. But he didn't say a lot of groups. He said, Monsters A-Pak. It's pretty blatant now. He's anti-Semitic. Oh, I agree with you entirely. If pressed, I think the other possible group, unofficial group, one might mention in this context, if one were like Zohran Mamdani and Zohran Mamdani, is the Epstein class, which is another euphemism for Jews or has become one. Yeah, and you know what's so interesting about that clip of Zohran Mamdani?

With all his revolutionary rhetoric, does he sound like a mayor? Does he sound like a local politician? He's doing nothing about being a mayor. He's wearing a Nick's jersey and he's surfing national fame. Yeah, I mean, and this applies to the socialists that he just swept into office as well. They're not interested in local politics. They're not the first thing about local politics. Not that they know anything about national politics or international politics, but what their dream, where their dreams are, are about global issues in some sort of, you know. historic framework having to do with, you know, Marxism and socialism. It's all, it is. Actually, I think it's just the stupid party. And I think Brad Lander might not be a dummy. He's a university of Chicago trained. He's been around New York for a long time. He may just be putting his sail tacking into the anti-Semitic anti-Israel win. But the other two, I don't think I've read a book. Valdez and Chevalier, I really don't think they've read a book. Now, is this a good development for Hakeem Jeffries or a bad development for him? Well, I have a hard time seeing any of this as a good development for... the Democrats at all. Because I think the standard establishment Democrat response to the rise of the radicals is to support, support, support, and see where it goes. And I think... They look ridiculous doing this. When you watch, you know, Ro Khanna or whomever else, turn into the latest Neo-Squodnik, it becomes clear that the establishment is being led by their noses by these punks. And it's just not a good look. No, and it's going to be such a stupid look when they open their mouths in Congress. So, Abe, just a minute before, 10 minutes before I started talking to you. I got an invite from my friend Matt Brooks, who's executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, and Norm Coleman, who's their chair, former Senator Coleman, is a good friend, old radio friend. And they want me to come speaking at RJC. Well, I'm a Republican, but I'm not Jewish, but I think they're doing the right thing. They're starting to say, hey, everybody who supports Israel, come on in. Do you think maybe APEC needs to do more? I know they're open technically, but I really think the pro-Israel, pro-Western coalition has to get the band back together again like they did in Reagan 1 with Jean Carpatrick.

Look, the more the merrier has always been my, you know, feelings about it. And I am perpetually thankful and grateful for the non-Jewish supporters of Israel and the Jews and America, by the way, which is, which is, you know, what all this comes down to. I'm not one to really ask about the machinations of successful lobbying. But yes, I am in favor of welcoming anyone. on the team for sure. So my last question is, I don't really believe Israel is a 50-50 split in America. I think it's like 85% in favor of Israel and the dummies who are young making up the 15%. I know it polls differently, but my intuitive grasp of the American character is it's not anti-Semitic. In fact, that's repellent. Do you agree with me? Or are you more worried than I am? I'm more worried than you are. And I couldn't give you an exact breakdown, but I don't think it's as optimistic as yours. And I'm certain in the next five to 10 to 15 years, it will be even less so. Because we're seeing, it's really a generational shift at work here. And as we lose. One generation of extraordinary Americans and supporters of the U.S. and Israel and the U.S. Israel Alliance, we are opening the door to another that has learned everything that they think they know about Israel from TikTok. No, facts are stubborn, no, Abe. The U.S. and Israel flew wing to wing in the battle with Iran. Iran murdered 40,000 of its own people in January. Those are hard facts. The latter. Iran is a theocracy and a dictatorship. Israel and the United States are Democratic allies in war. I am more hopeful, but we shall see. Ed Greenwald, Executive Editor of Commentary. You ought to sign up for his daily morning newsletter at Commentary.org. Thank you, Abe. I'll be right back, America. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt, considering to monitor reaction to Iran firing on the Singapore flag freighter in the Strait of Hormuz. I'll bring you up to speed on that. First, I want to bring in our friend, Jonathan, from our sponsor, the American Legislative Exchange Council. A couple of times a month, Jonathan, and I talk serious policy, and I am in an abluent mood because of your team sending me the news from Arizona, Jonathan. I knew that a few states had adopted the... Working families tax cut bill, embrace of school choice. Arizona did that and more. Tell us what Arizona did. Well, just when I got back from Phoenix as they were wrapping up the budget, had the chance to be out there with legislative leaders, Hugh, and the ground. And it was a great week for taxpayers in Arizona. As you know, they're dealing with a pretty liberal governor in Katie Hobbs. They have slight majorities on the Republican side in both houses of the legislature. But what they accomplished was the first state to fully enact a law to implement the Trump. One big, beautiful bill, Working Families Tax Cut Act, into law. in Arizona, not just for individuals, but also for employers by allowing for those really important pieces like the expensing and depreciation rules that were part of that package that are just amazing for job creation to keep Arizona's economy humming. But that's not all here. The other thing they did was they protected school choice. Governor Hobbs has been a big opponent to school choice. As you know, the unions are right now circulating petitions waiting to have them certified for a potential ballot measure this fall. But also, there was a huge fight over whether their current school choice plan would be fully funded. It's the number two, second best plan in America, according to our Alec report, right after the free state of Florida. And thankfully, not only did the legislators get it right on the tax cut angle, they got it right to protect school choice at the very same time. banner week for the good guys in Arizona. So, Jonathan, Katie Hobbs is a far-left governor. Do the Republicans have a supermajority, or did she just back away from vetoing either or both bills on school choice and expensing? Well, you know, the Republican majority is very narrow. It's only a couple of votes in each chamber, Hugh. And so they had to come together and negotiate. They were getting right up until the end of the fiscal year at the end of June here. And they negotiated. Republicans, of course, didn't get everything they wanted, but they got a pretty good deal at the end of the day with these huge picture, big picture items that they got across the finish line. And Arizona, as you know, has been a top. five state in rich states, poor states. Interestingly enough, Governor Hobbs people were taking credit for that, even though much of that progress was accomplished to make our good friend Doug Deucey. But nonetheless, the legislators, I think, got the upper hand in this negotiation and saw a huge benefit for the taxpayers, more importantly.

You know, I don't think many states will be taking away school choice once parents get to use it. I really don't, Jonathan. That will be a rebellion. I hope we can talk about it July 22 to 24 when we're broadcasting from the Alec gathering. Anyone from Arizona coming to the gathering in Orlando? Oh, you bet. We have Senate President Pro Tem T.J. Shope, who's on our Alec Board, who interviewed. I know he'll be there, and we're going to have a great Arizona delegation right after their primary concludes on that Tuesday. They're going to pick up and head out to Florida with us. Excellent. Let's move to Oklahoma and find out what they're doing down in that state where the wind comes sweeping down the plane. A raise in the minimum wage did not make come sweeping down the plane. And that's good news for everyone. Well, it's another big victory, Hugh, and one that way probably well under the radar for most media outlets. But for your astute watchers and listeners here on the Hugh Hewitt show, you'll be very pleased to know that cooler heads did prevail in Oklahoma, where voters came and overwhelmingly rejected a measure that would have nearly doubled the state's minimum wage up to $15 an hour over time and made the state much less competitive. And so, Hugh, you know how rare it is that when these These measures go to the ballot box when they're financed by left-wing special interests. Usually they have tons of money behind them. The supporters of a more free market rational policy when it comes to minimum wage are outgunned. But this one went down in flames by about 14 percentage points at the ballot box. And so in my experience of watching this, I've never seen a minimum wage ballot measure fail by that much. And so the good folks in Oklahoma did a really good job getting out and educating what this would have meant for a job destruction. and the policy that would have been in Oklahoma if they would have passed. It was in California six weeks ago, and a score of Carlos Jr.'s restaurants just closed. Because they have a minimum wage for restaurant workers and fast food jobs. They cannot make it work. And so a mandated minimum wage is a job killer. Meanwhile, up in the great state of Maine, they're paying $20 an hour at McDonald's. So it depends on the market and whether or not someone can make it work. You can't legislate this. All right, to the bluegrass state. Kentucky legislators were in town this week. You were part of the group to greet one. What did they get done? And by the way, I love the fact. that they annually go up in your ranking. They're like the little engine that could climb in the hill. Well, that's a great point. I spent the day with them there at the White House, had some great discussions with key leaders from the administration. Several members of the cabinet came and addressed the group. But Kentucky's been a state that's been doing some really amazing things. And to your point, Hugh, in the first edition of rich states, poor states, Kentucky ranked 44th for economic outlook. They've continued to improve. They didn't do it overnight. It's taken them 19 years, obviously, to get where they're at. But Kentucky now is in a spot, best ranking ever.

moved up about 20 spots in the rankings now in the top half. There's more to go. But as you know, under current Wahue, they have a phase out of their personal income tax. So every time tax revenues continue to come in, they use part of it to buy down the income tax rate on individuals and small businesses. So look for Kentucky to continue to improve in the rankings, especially by doing things like opting into the one big beautiful bill, doing education choice, the Trump accounts at the federal level. looking at Medicaid Waste, Fraud and Abuse, which was their HR1 and HR2, this legislative session. So I had a banner year in Kentucky as well. You sent me some name checks, and I want to go over them for you. Kentucky, Senate President, Pro Tem, David Givens, Speaker David Osborne, representatives Kim Moser and T.John Roberts were named Alec Policy Champs. What gets you that honor from Alec? Well, it's a select group of legislators that are going out and really being the big movers and shakers of free market reforms. And in their case, Representative Moser is a great member of the Alec Board of Directors. They led the effort to implement the Trump Education Tax Credit. At the federal level, obviously, their governor vetoed it and Governor Andy Beshear. They overrored the veto and got that done for the great people of Kentucky. It was a huge win. It was obviously very helpful in some states like that. where they've continued to override Governor Andy Beshear's vetoes. He likes to talk like a moderate, but he continues to veto common sense things like the education tax credit scholarship, which, by the way, Hugh, even Kathy Hochul, Governor New York, has said that she would opt in. So that puts people like Governor Andy Beshear to the left of Governor Hokel. So think about that, that probably shatters some people's political paradigms out there. Now, John, I know you're the president of Alec and their chief economists, but right behind you is the state of Michigan. I see it every time we do this. Now, are you ever going to turn that on its side or flip it because they're going down and they won't embrace anything? Hey, you know, I still got hope in my home state because of Speaker Hall, you've had him on his show several times, and he is really leading a comeback when it comes to common sense policy in Michigan, hitting the waste, fraud, and abuse angle so we don't become the next Minnesota. So I'm optimist. You know, I'm an optimist to you. There's a lot of big things going on this fall there. Voters have to make some big decisions of what Michigan wants to be when it grows up, right? But if you've got people like Speaker Hall leading the way, I'm bullish on the future of Michigan, we've got to keep up with... Ohio, though, because with the flat tax and everything going on, there's some big competition. I hope you bring some of those Michiganders along with the people you were with in South Dakota this week down to Orlando, the 22nd through the 24th for the Alec National Conference in July. Jonathan Williams, happy 4th of July to you. I'll talk you on the other side of our semi-susquintanial. Don't go anywhere, America. I'll be right back. Eliana Johnson. She's editor-in-chief of the Washington Free Bican. She's also a regular on the commentary podcast. In fact, I laughed out loud today when I was listening, Eliana, and you said that when your father would quote you the old saying, to be young and not to be a liberal is to have no heart and to be old and not to be a conservative, to have no brain. You said that I'm a cold-hearted monster as a teenager, dad. The estimable Scott Johnson, I'm sure he did not attribute that to Churchill. Churchill did not say that. Did he correct that or did he get it right?

I don't think he ever attributed it to Churchill. Good, good. But I laughed when you had that to say. Now, Eliana, you lived in New York City. I lived there a long time ago in 1980. I would not live there today. Would you live there today? No, certainly Tuesday's, well, if Mayor Zohran Mamdani's election hadn't driven me out, certainly Tuesday's primary results would have caused me to flee to friendlier climes, shall, friendly or ideological climes. And Hugh, I mean, even many Democrats have to be thinking the same thing. Now, if I were Jewish in New York, I would be afraid because I think the radicals are empowered by things like this. And the rhetoric that we heard over the last month. It was astonishingly anti-Semitic, the most outspokenly anti-Semitic. I mean, Zohran Mamdani is standing up there and saying the New World is dying, the New World is arriving, and there are monsters out there, and he mentions APEC. What do you think is going to happen in New York? There are going to be attacks.

is just going to get a little bit bigger and be a thorn in the side of democratic leadership in the House. What do you think happens to the Jewish Democrats of high profile like Josh Shapiro, Governor Pennsylvania, Jon Ossoff, Senator from Georgia? Does their party turn on them or do they get a pass because they're a useful vote? Well, there's also J.B. Pritzker, the governor of Illinois, who's an aspiring Democratic presidential nominee, and Rahm Emanuel, the former mayor of Chicago, former ambassador to Japan, another aspiring presidential nominees. So several of the Democratic presidential nominees say they're supporters of Israel and they are Jewish. What we have not seen, Hugh, is... line drawing, boundary drawing by members of Democratic leadership. So we will see if the Democratic presidential primary serves to do some of this. But I have not seen it from a single member of the Democratic leadership. You know, I don't think Rahm Emanuel would be as forgiving as Dan Goldman. Do you think Rahm Emanuel would be forgiving of the Poetica owner? I think he'd have the feds there tomorrow. Yeah, I agree with you, Hugh. And I also don't think any of the four aspiring Jewish presidential nominees on the Democratic side, who we just mentioned, I don't think they will be the nominee. And it is partly because they're Jewish. Okay. One more question. Iran fired on a freighter flagged under Singapore today. They hit the control room. What do you think we'll do? We being the United States. Anything? I don't know, Hugh, but I've thought since the beginning of this, we've been in somewhat of a back-and-forth messaging war with Iran, and this is one of the – and I've thought Iran would test the boundaries of this MOU. This appears to be the first real test of that, and it will be, I think, important that the U.S. respond in a way. This was a Singaporean commercial vessel that – Iran wanted to restrict passage in the strait to one of its lanes. That is not an open straight. And this commercial ship was not... going through the strait in one of Iran's lanes and Iran fired on this ship. That is a violation of the MOU. And I think it's incumbent on us to respond in some way, either reimposing the blockade or cutting off some of the frozen funds that we've released. So there should be a response. Absolutely. Because they're going to keep doing it and doing it and doing it because that's who they are and that's what they do. And unless we respond, they'll do it again. People will lose their lives. Eliana Y Johnson on X, editor of the free beacon. I'm joined now by an old friend of the program, Mary Kissel. She used to be senior counselor to the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Trump One. She's now with the Hudson Institute, and we are glad to have her here talking to us. Mary, how have you been and what did you make globally of our conflict with Iran, which I think is in half-time? I don't think it's over. I think it's half-time.

Well, it's just fantastic to be back with you, Hugh. Look, I think you ought to start by giving credit where credit is due. We haven't had a U.S. President, Republican or Democrat, that has used kinetic force against the Islamic Republic until this president. Unfortunately, I think he made a mistake when he put the ceasefire in place a bit prematurely, and that allowed Iran to put, as you've so well chronicled, Hugh, other issues on the table that weren't on the table before, namely. the Strait of Formuz, the proxies, you know, Lebanon, everything that we're talking about now, Iran has put on the table. What we want to talk about is the nuclear program, and that's really what's going to bring stability to the region is to denuclearize this very radical regime, the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism. So I'm glad to hear you say it's on the halfway mark you. I hope you're right, because given history, I just don't have much faith that these talks are going to yield what the president wants them to yield. Well, I'm referencing back to the phony war of 1939 to 40 after Germany and Blitzkrieg, Poland, but before they invaded France, there were seven months there when nothing happened. But the war was, one side was preparing for. Do you think we're doing what we need to prepare for a war right now? Well, I've said for a very long time that not only we... unprepared for the conflicts of the future, but we're still stuck in the thinking of the past, meaning that, you know, we think in bilateral terms that this is, you know, an Israeli-Iran conflict or a Russia-Ukraine conflict or a China-Taiwan potential conflict. That's wrong. That's not how the world works, and I know you and I have talked about that in the past, you. These are wars of proxies and blocks. The Iranian... regime doesn't just threaten Israel. It threatens all the free nations of Europe. Its tentacles reach into our hemisphere, and they're aided by China and Russia. Are we prepared for that? Is that how we're talking about these threats? No. And I also think that, you know, we're not well prepared for the threats that we face here in the homeland. But that's a little bit off topic for you, Hugh. I know you probably want to stay in the Middle East. I do. I want to stay actually with Secretary of State Marco Rubio today, and then we're going to come back to China because that you and I share this common concern. Here's Marco Rubio in Bahrain today, getting a question about the nature of the Islamic regime. Cut number two. You used to call them – you did. You used to call them religious, theocratic lunatics. Do you still believe that language applies to the leadership today? Well, it's not that I believe it. It's the fact of the matter. I mean, the Iranian system is led by clerics, radical clerics. That's what it's always been led by, and that's what it continues to be led by. That said, we also have to manage the geopolitics of this situation. And then there's an – if they've changed their mindset or if they've changed their approach to their relations with the United States and their neighbors, then we're going to give this thing a chance to work. Maybe this changed. I'm not saying it has. I'm saying the president wants to explore whether that's the case. And if it has, we're going to find out. But we're not going to find out because of what they say. We're going to find out because of what they do. We're going to judge them by their actions. And we'll test that proposition and see.

And no one says it's going to be easy because I think at the end, you know, we know that people that are still at the top levels of that government are people that adhere to the same theology and the same mentality as the people that have led it in the past. They've got some people in the political branches that seem more flexible and more willing to work with us. Those are the ones we're negotiating with. We'll see how it works out. Mary, I'm very skeptical that the 12ers can be other than the 12ers. What do you think? Well, I think it's very important that you have a cabinet official and also concurrently National Security Advisor talking about the nature of the counterparty. That is deeply important because it effectively sets the terms. of what is possible if you have enough leverage to bring them to the table. Now, what Marco Rubio didn't talk about is the role of the IRGC and just how much leverage the IRGC has over these radical clerics. In other words, is this regime now being run by revolutionaries, Mullahs, or is it being run by the hard men of the militants? I think it's the latter, which suggests that, you know, again, something we've known for a long time, that, you know, the Iranians know that the revolution is bankrupt. Do we know that the revolution is bankrupt? And, you know, are we dealing with men here that, you know, we can really have some leverage over absent kinetic activity? Are we dealing with people we can effectively buy off? Or are we dealing with true believers who will never surrender? I think that's an open question, Hugh. for the time being, and I don't think we have complete information. What's remarkable to me, Mary, before I go to China, is that Western media has forgotten or chooses not to remember that this regime executed 40,000 of their own people in January. It's not like it was decades ago like Tiananmen Square. It was January. They mowed down 40,000 people. That regime's not going to change. There are too many people with blood on their hands. Am I right about that? Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. You know, I was just over in Europe speaking last week and got a lot of questions about U.S. leadership. And, you know, I spoke at length about it. But one thing that I said, and I'll reiterate it here, is that the one thing that Trump too lacks is moral leadership. We don't talk about the fact that, you know, our way of life, our capitalist system, our republic, our democracy is a superior to other forms of democracy. And that's why when we pursue our national interest, it's fundamentally for the good as opposed to Iran pursuing its national interest. We're not talking about the fate of the Iranian people and how we hope their fundamental human rights will be upheld. You know, this isn't just the province of the left hue. U.S. foreign policy that's been an integral part of it that we talk about the moral case for intervention. I'm not saying that that's the whole thing. I'm not advocating huge democratization projects. But what I am saying is that if you don't talk about that piece, then we lose our leverage and we lose our credibility with the Iranian people who are ultimately at the end of the day, as you point out, in what you just said, the real victims here of the regime, and they have been for more than 40 years.

All right, so, Mary, I want to close with a few minutes on the reaction or the unexpected reaction from the People's Republic of China. They demonstrated an ability to draw down their demand for oil overnight, like that. I had no idea that they could do that. That's a strategic surprise to me that they're not as oil dependent on the oceans as I thought they were. What did you see from China during this war with Iran the first 40 days? Well, first of all, I don't like calling it the People's Republic of China because it somehow implies that they have the buy-in of the people. It's a totalitarian regime. That's the first thing to say to acknowledge the nature of the regime. Secondly, yeah, it was a strategic surprise, Hugh, but it's not an infinite supply of energy that they have. Ultimately, their strategic oil reserves will run out just like ours will. They can't power themselves on the wind and the sun. They do import a lot of their energy supply. But, you know, the other aspect of this is I think we're starting to see the fruits of their no-limits partnership with Russia and also the deals that they've done with Iran. These three anti-freedom, anti-Western nations are cooperating together as a block, and that's how we should be approaching them. You know, I was heartened today to see the Trump administration ban Polestar, a big electric car company for the threat. and the components that are included in that vehicle. We're starting to decouple, Hugh, but again, we're not doing it forthrightly. We're not saying to the American people, hey, this is the new world that we face. This is how we see it playing out over the next 10 years. This is the urgency that we have to start to build our capabilities and to really educate the people that I talk to the most, Hugh, which are CEOs and boards. about the urgency and the quickness of how far these changes are going and how fast they're moving. Mary, let's close on one of my criticisms of the current administration and President Trump and I've disagreed about this publicly. I think he ought to have shut down TikTok. I believe some of the election results on Tuesday night in New York is because of TikTok infiltrating young people's feeds and feeding them lies about the West and about freedom and about free enterprise. What do you think of the tech talk settlement that's been reached? I think that... TikTok is a small part of a much larger problem. And I think that the danger is that members of Congress focus on TikTok and say, well, if we solve this, our problem is over. When the real problem, Hugh, are the Volt and the Salt Typhoon hacks that are, from my understanding, still ongoing, that China can shut down all of our networks right now, read our text messages, listen to our phone calls, the fact that they've probably got tens of thousands of people in the country, the fact that many... of our most important corporations, Tesla and others, have effectively been bought off by China and serve as, you know, mouthpieces for the regime. To me, you know, you put that all together, plus their covert nuclear program, the biological chemical weapons program. I mean, I go right down the list. These are much bigger problems, much more dangerous to the American people, and yet we don't talk about it because it's just a lot easier for politicians to talk about TikTok.

It is amazing, Mary. Always a breath of fresh air and a reminder of what matters in the world to talk to. Don't be a stranger. Mary Kissel with the Hudson Foundation, always a pleasure. Don't go anywhere, America. I'm coming right back. Stay tuned to Salem News Channel, Salem Radio Network, all of our wonderful radio affiliates. I'll be right back on The Hugh Hewitt Show. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Uitt. Join now by Victor Reno Mattis. He is the co-host of the Getting Hammered podcast. He's number two over at the Washington Free Beacon, their weekend editor, their culture and arts editor as well. And he ought to be their food critic because in the most recent edition of Getting Hammered, which is very amusing just out this week, Vic reviews McDonald's Deep Fried Apple Pie. Now, I got serious stuff to get to before, I mean, after we do this, but Vic, you couldn't persuade me to eat a McDonald's deep-fry apple pie in 100 years. When did you begin your addiction to deep-fry apple pie? I think since I was a child, you know, McDonald's, Hugh, always had a couple options for a quote-unquote dessert, as if the regular meal wasn't enough for you. One of them was the cookies, which a lot of people say bring back the old-style cookies from the 1980s. But the other one was, of course, the deep-fried apple pie. And that was fried in mostly beef tallow. So it's the same oil they used for the fries back in the day that gave it a rather beefy flavor. It was about 73% beef tallow. And then the rest was vegetable oil. Nowadays, it's going to be all. vegetable oil, but nevertheless, as I mentioned on the show on getting hammered, Hugh, it is fewer calories, fewer sugar. It is in a very weird but very maha way, healthier than the baked alternative. So I'm celebrating this, and it's going to be around for the next couple of weeks. So I figured an apple pie a day will keep the doctor away. Is it any good? Oh, it's fantastic. If you've never had it, Hugh, you absolutely must. I was on a trip to Germany several years ago to cover the German elections. I was there with a friend Mike Shields from the Republican National Committee at the time, and he bought me my deep-fried apple pie. We were sitting there in Wiesbaden in the western part of Germany. And it's available in Germany, but it was no longer available in the States. So this is a very exciting moment. America 250. America 250. All right, let's go to the elections in New York. You're a New Jersey guy. How do the communists do in New Jersey? Well, they've already had a bit of a head start. As you know, Hugh, there were several candidates who had won their primaries, one in northern New Jersey, a particular woman who will probably be elected to Congress, and she's very much openly defund ICE, so she's going to be in good company. But when it comes to the actual DSA members, people like...

Daria Liza Avla Chevalier and Claire Valdez, for example, the other ones in the tri-state area don't hold a candle to them. I mean, these people are hardcore, you know, Brad Lander defeating Dan Goldman. That's insane. And Dan Goldman, who is not exactly the most pro-Israel. He's certainly not a conservative. And being denied service from that coffee shop. I mean, that's how bad things are over there. So I'd say that while things, you know, aren't great in New Jersey, things are a lot worse in the Big Apple right now. All right. Let's work through the name of Ms. Chevalier. How did you say? Can you go slow for me? Because when you get into double-digit syllables, I have trouble. Yes. Well, her first name is Daria Liza, and then Avila is the middle name. And I pronounce it the French way Chevalier. I don't know if it's Chevalier, like the way, you know, but think about Chevrolet, that's the way I'm going with it. I'm going with Maurice Chivalier. But Darya, Alisa, Avila, Chevalier. Yeah. Chevalier. So do we get a limit on syllable? I think Eli Lake, by the way, I think Eli Lake is referring to her as Chevalier Minehoff in a tribute to Ulrika Meinhoff of the Better Minehoff gang. Eli's pretty funny. So how bad is this for the Democrats? I talk into Eleana Johnson about this. I talk to Abe Greenwald about this. Let's get a third take of a New Jerseyite. How bad is this for Democrats? Oh, it's seriously bad, Hugh, because you have people such as Nancy Pelosi, obviously the Speaker Amerituss, so she's no longer the Speaker of the House, but you also have Hakeem Jeffries, and you have Chuck Schumer in the Senate. They're supporting incumbents. They're supporting traditional establishment type Dems. These are people who very much hate Donald Trump. These are people very much of the left. And yet it wasn't enough for them because, as you know, the revolution devours its own. And so now they have a very serious problem on their hands. They're downplaying it, obviously, in the press. And even I think New York's Governor Cathy Hokel made the absurd statement that they're more unified than ever. Obviously, that is not true, especially when you hear the chance of, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, you're next. I think they mean that. This is a hijacking of the Democratic Party. And it's not just, you know, trying to get into D.C. and working with their colleagues. Not at all. They're ready to shake things up. They may not be that familiar with how the levers of power work here on Capitol Hill. But they're going to find out the hard way. Now, the left-wing herd has been thinned. We lost Jamal Bowman and a couple of others along with Cori Bush, I think. Are they back up in numbers to where they were four years ago? I think that they may be more than matching where they were earlier in this sort of squad 2.0. There's another candidate out in Colorado as a matter of fact. And then if you throw in the mayors for that matter, such as Zohran Mamdani or who is going to be the next mayor in Washington, D.C., they're in very good shape, the DSA. So again, it is something definitely to be feared. They're playing a very dangerous game. It's very awkward.

here on Capitol Hill because you have DSA members working side by side with Democratic incumbents who are going to be out of a job, you know, this time next year. So it's this weird, very awkward, delicate dance they're playing of, I think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-Hortez is very careful to be endorsing DSA members at the state level. And Zohran Mamdani is going for the House endorsements, as you know, which is very interesting. Well, I think Chuck Schumer, if ASC runs for president, he's not out of the woods because Zohran Mamdani might want to be a senator. Let me turn all I can to the fact that while tanker traffic through the strait increased today, the Iranians attacked a freighter, Singapore flagged, and they shot into it. No one was killed or injured, but they dismantled the deck, the commander's deck, with live fire. What do we do about that? I really do think the president's going to have to respond in some way, shape, or form. It's kind of a bad situation, I think, that the United States is finding itself in right now, Hugh, because on the one hand, we're giving them plenty of chances to make amends, and we're extending that olive branch, but you know how they like to tease us, they're masters of the long con. They are making money by selling oil and U.S. dollars every single day. And we are trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. haven't unfrozen the assets yet, but certainly the fact that they're able to make money from selling oil. buys them time and that's what they want to do. And President Trump has to show them that he means business. And if you have to shut down the street the hard way, then he needs to. It's going to be very difficult to deal with the regime because it still stands. I think it's kind of wishful thinking to think that this is the new and improved IRGC and they want to, you know, mend their ways. I think it's the same old IRGC and they're calling the shots. And we... The United States cannot afford to look ridiculous, and certainly not the president or vice president. And so I think they need to take a tougher stance. We've got 30 seconds, Vic. The International Maritime Organization has paused the evacuation of ships from the Gulf through to the Sea of Vermont. What do you think? Do we have to strike them quickly in order to make the reciprocity obvious? Yeah, again, the sooner the better. In that region, the only thing that they recognize is force. Any act of compromise is seen as weakness. I think that's the way it's always been. It's the way it's always going to be here. Vic Mattis, always good to see you, and I'll take under advisement than McDonald's deep-fry apple pie. Follow Vic and Victorina Mattis. Listen to the Getting Hammered podcast. The Vic Co-host with Mary Catherine Hamm. Always worth your listen. Subscribe, like, and review. I'll be right back to America on the QQU. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh at Josh Croshauer, is editor-in-chief of Jewish insider. He joins me weekly to give me a view of what Americans of Jewish descent think about what's going on in America. Josh, Tuesday night, New York. What's your reaction?

Hugh, we've talked about this before that Jewish Americans have been alarmed at the rising tolerance of anti-Semitism in many of these races within the Democratic Party and the clear evolution to becoming much more hostile, if not critical or hostile to Israel with even more moderate or less extreme candidates taking pretty critical views of the Jewish state when most of the party was once lockstep behind the U.S. Israel Alliance. So this is nothing new to Jewish voters. But boy, oh boy, the type of radical extremists who have, you know, we have an instance in the Chevalier candidacy who beat the head of the congressional Hispanic caucus. I mean, she's an outright communist who is pro Hamas. Like there's no, she has, she went to a rally celebrating the Hamas attack against Israel the day after October 7th. Like there's no, and then there's a whole lot of other things in her record that people are just. horrified by. But I think we talked on the show last month about the Democrats nominating a candidate in New Jersey in a pretty Jewish district, actually, that was affiliated with Islamist and even an al-Qaeda group in the 1990s, was an associate of the blind Sheikh who was the inspiration behind the First World Trade Center bombing. I mean, the notion that these anti-Semitic extremists radicals have been able to get through primaries. Democratic primaries in these districts. It's something new. And I think New York, for some reason, the media finally woke up to the fact that the Democratic Party has a radicalism issue, and it's one that is going to be pretty late to turn around. The GSA is anti-West, anti-America, anti-Israel, and anti-Semitic. And I don't think there's an argument here. What I'd like to know, and I don't know if you've done any reporting on this, Josh, or anyone over a Jewish insider, when did Chevalier go off the rails? Like, you don't end up being an anti-Semite by accident. Something happens. Somebody gets a hold of your brain. You get the brain virus. Where did that happen to her? Do we know? Well, Columbia University. She was a student at Columbia. She actually spent many, many years as a Ph.D. student at Columbia University. She was one of the leaders, Hugh, of the encampments, anti-Semitic encampments, on that college campus. That is obvious. I don't know every course she's taking at Columbia University, but we know the history of the Middle Eastern Studies Program and the international studies programs at Columbia University. I don't think the audience knows the history of the Columbia Middle East Studies Program. and how it actually began as Orientalism and then just metastasized into Rad Central. How many years did that take? Boy, I mean, I remember post-9-11. I mean, when I was listening to you back in the day, Hugh, when, when, you know, after 9-11 and Columbia University's Middle Eastern Studies Department was the epicenter of blaming America for the 9-11 attacks in New York City. So, I mean, this is. this goes back a long ways. Khalidi, right, is that, I think that's right. They have some very prominent professors who are sort of the successors of Edward Said, but I think are even more radical than he was. And they, you know, recently like defended the October 7th attacks and have dealt, I mean, at that the very famous, at least Elise Stefanik campus president hearing, were confronted with some of these these.

professors' comments after October 7th and how they tolerated terrorism. So, I mean, this is nothing new, but you're right. This has been going on for quite some time. Has Chevalier given even one serious interview where she's asked, okay, let's talk about the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. What do you think should have happened? It's like going back to ground zero. The Ottoman Empire collapses after World War I, and the British mandate arrives, and the UN blesses Israel and Jim Jordan, and then it all, history just follows. Does she know any of that, do you think? I don't think she's read The Looming Tower, and I don't think she has knowledge of any. She should come on your show. I'd like to hear that. Oh, I'd love to interview. They'd never go in arms way, Josh. Have any serious question. Do you think Zohran Mamdani? Well, look, I think this is a larger issue because Mom Dany, Hugh, Mom Dany champion. She was a nobody. No one had ever heard of her until a few weeks ago. She was championed and recruited by Zohran Mamdani. specifically because of her ties to the DSA and how radical she is. This was not about affordability. Like, that's such a mirage that a lot of, you know, Zohran Mamdani defenders have utilized. And he won because of affordability. It is the, certainly the anti-Israel and anti-Semitic elements of the ideology, but a whole slew of other radical DSA positions. I mean, she's pro-Russia. She said she's rooting for Russia to defeat Ukraine in Europe. She has... wants to abolish prisons. This is a deep-seated ideology that Zohran Mamdani was very immersed in, obviously, and recruited candidates specifically for their kind of, at least in the two races, Chevalier and Valdez, specifically for their adherence to this DSA, you know, platform. It's a burn it all down ideology. I want to play Zohran Mamdani for you on Monday night at the last rally. Here is the mayor doing his thing. The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters. These monsters take many forms today. In those who fund television ads that blanket the airwaves with misleading and bad faith attacks about Claire, Brad, and Dari, those who would rather spend far more on political contributions than they would ever be made to pay in taxes. In APEC, John, the monsters are APEC. How did I submit it do you have to be to get called anti-Semitic? Well, you know, all you have to do is say A-PAC in a Democratic primary, even outside of New York City, and that's become, I mean, I will say that, like, you know, the further you get away from cities and when you get into a swing district, generally the stuff doesn't play. But the tolerance for it is still there. And it's become a tactic that even people outside the far left are starting to use. And that's a very alarming sign. And the fact that, you know, basically, Zohran Mamdani is saying that Jewish donors who support Israel are monsters. And by the way, recruiting candidates who, you know, specifically differentiated from their opponents because they did not. like Israel and in two of the three cases for Congress did not even believe the Jewish state should exist, that they have that extreme. Israel is that defining the anti-Israel.

space that Zohran Mamdani operates in is how he got into politics in the first place. It's his family's background. I mean, this is the milieu that he operates in. So there's no coincidence. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that affordability is sort of not the main focus for Zohran Mamdani, even though he likes to say that, because it's more politically palatable. He is an anti-Israel radical to his core, and it shows in the candidates he endorsed and championed and funded to win these three congressional seats. And I hope that voters across, I said this on Sean Hannity last night, I hope that voters across the country keep those three candidates in mind when they vote for whoever's in their district and just vote Republican because the Democrats need a big, big rebuke. Josh Kroshauer, editor-in-chief of the Jewish Insiders. Thank you, Josh. I'll be right back, America. We begin the hour with Jacob Helberg, under Secretary of State for Economic Growth, Energy and the Environment. He is new to D.C., though he is not new to the subject matter under Secretary Helbert. Welcome. How did you end up doing this? This is not an ordinary job. Well, first of all, it's great to be here. I ended up doing this completely by happenstance. I found myself to be incredibly inspired by President Trump's leadership during the campaign. And when he offered me to serve as someone who's worked in the private sector, it was inspiring because I knew that President Trump would be a president for change. I knew he wouldn't be a typical politician. I knew he had the instincts of a builder and someone who was willing to bring about action and decisive leadership. And so it's been on the server in his cabinet. So before we get to Paxilica, which I am most interested in, tell me a little bit about the Hill and Valley Forum, because I'm glad to know that a group of people from the Valley and the Hill are interested in China espionage and basically taking of our intellectual property and our AI ability. How did you get that started? Yeah, so I worked at Google in a previous life, and I actually worked there during the now infamous Project Maven debacle. During that time, I realized that there was a huge amount of distrust that had grown between Silicon Valley and Washington, D.C. And at a time when everyone was focused on the relationship between Washington and China, I realized that in a deeper level, one of the most important relationships driving the strength of our country was actually between the Bay Area and Washington, between the innovators and policymakers who are both in the business of building the future. Policymakers use the laws of man and innovators use the laws of nature. And so I set out to...

started the Hill and Valley Forum with two friends of the time from the tech industry to help create a platform to actually repair this very broken relationship. And it's been remarkable to see how far that relationship has gone. And now, I mean, the Hill and Valley Forum has lines around the block. It's really, really incredible to see how closely we work together. Well, now on this program and other is people like Joe Lonsdale, people like Alex Karp, Mike Gallagher, all the wonderful. Shamm, all of them come on, talk about the private sector. So I'm glad that's over. The head of Anderil's strategy was on last week talking about the submersibles. Let me go then to pack silica. Tell us what it is. Tell us what do Australia, Greece, Israel, Japan, Qatar, the Republic of Korea, Singapore, UAE. The United Kingdom, Sweden, and the U.S. are doing in Paxilica. Absolutely. So Paxilica was based on the basic recognition that the global economy is undergoing one of the biggest transformations since the first industrial revolution. And yet, there really wasn't a clean grouping of countries that was an accurate reflection of the AI economy. As you know, the G7 is an artifact of the Cold War. The G20 was devised by the Obama administration as a response to the global financial crash. And we really didn't have the right grouping to include the technological powerhouses of the 21st century. And so we decided to start Paxilica in order to create a space that allows us to talk about not just the issues and the challenges facing the AI economy, but also... ways of managing the AI economy in a way that really maximizes the benefits for workers, for our citizens, and for the future. And so we decided to start this forum. We began in December in a conference room at the Trump Institute of Peace. It was a very small and formal meeting. And today we just finished the first day of a two-day forum, our second summit. And we have 300 people, so it has grown very, very quickly. We now have 24 members. We this week actually added nine new signatories to this growing family, including several from the Western Hemisphere. And we've adopted what I like to call is a product-based approach to foreign policy. And that means focusing on... tangible deliverables that are commercially viable and scalable, just like any other normal company. We did that by incubating a project that we call Pax Pass that is an AI-powered logistics platform that we are providing Panama to help enhance the logistics of the Panama Canal's operations. We announced that through a $50 million grant from

our foreign assistance funding. That ultimately has the potential to be replicable. We also announced a partnership with Stanford University to establish another initiative called Foundry School that aims at developing an advanced manufacturing curriculum to train a new generation of American builders. that are going to make products again right here in America. And we're also partnering with the Philippines to build a first-of-its-kind economic security zone that's really designed to help us secure key inputs to manufacturing. The last point that I would add is, and this is especially meaningful, as you know, right now, there's a really big and important debate going on internationally on the right policy approach to AI. And a lot of governments are talking about sovereign AI, digital sovereignty, you know, using a lot of these terms. And, you know, Paxilica is our platform to help win the war of ideas. It is incredibly important. And to that end, 35 countries have signed a joint statement on AI opportunity that affirms a commitment to pursue AI opportunity. through a pro-innovation, pro-growth regulatory approach. And that is so important for the future of our economic growth. So, Undersecretary Helbert, every day I get up, and I begin my day with something called news items that's edited by John Ellis. And usually if there are any, he's up at 3 in the morning with his staff and they collect stuff from around the world. Half the stories are about AI. And recently, a lot of them have been about, for example, Mithos can penetrate the NSA in like a nanosecond and steal everything. What is the Paxilica going to do about the safety side of AI? Well, the first, you know, every big international, every big technological revolution has often been brought about in conjunction with an often untold story around international collaboration. You know, there have been the divisement of the metric system in a previous era. And when you have different systems that have to be replicated. dozens of times across countries that actually increases the cost of doing business for everyone. And so fundamentally, because we are a platform for action, we actually are able to have frank discussions that touch upon security. And in fact, today, one of the sessions that drew the most interest was specifically focused on AI infrastructure security, because you're completely right. There is a new emerging issue that a lot of companies and governments are talking about, which is data centers are now considered critical infrastructure. We saw during the war in the Persian Gulf, AWS got bombed. And so a lot of companies are starting to think through, you know, how do you protect data centers? The Israelis and a number of others are talking about...

you know, different, using advanced technology systems to protect data center infrastructure. In the U.S., a lot of American companies are asking themselves, does this mean we need to think about protecting our data centers from asymmetric threats? cheap drone attacks. And so ultimately, we're able to have all of these discussions in a safe space and use, you know, the space of trust in order to exchange ideas, but most importantly, engage the private sector. So today we heard from companies, including alphabet, including meta, including OpenAI, and so many others. And it's incredibly valuable to have that cross-pollination of insights. All right, last question under Secretary Halberg. You've got Israel, Gutter, and UAE in this group. Are they actually working together? I mean, UAE and Israel get along under the Abraham Accords, but Qatar is outside of that. So not only that, but we actually had our first trilateral between the United States, Israel, and the UAE today. And so it is incredible to see how the work that started under the first Trump administration under the Abraham Accords has now blossomed under the second Trump administration in what has become a very, very deep security partnership and a very deep security partnership. strategic economic relationship trilaterally. And that part is incredibly, is incredibly fascinating and inspiring. You're right. Qatar has co-signed the Pax Silicon Declaration alongside Israel. And I think it's really worth noting that because that is really historic in and of itself. And we think that opens the door for future collaboration. And it shows that shared supply chains are sometimes much more powerful than shared values. Come back and keep us posted on that. Secretary Helberg, good to talk to you this afternoon and make your acquaintance. I appreciate the time. Thank you very much. Go nowhere, America. Admiral McRaven is next on the U-Dewish show. My friends, you've probably seen the headlines are worse. Your latest bill, big wireless is raising rates again. That means you could be paying more for the same service. or getting pushed into a price here plan you simply do not need. That's not right. You can switch to consumer cellular right now and save an additional $50 when you go to consumer cellular.com slash you and use the promo code Hugh 50. And if you happen to be over the age of 50, listen to this, you can get a single line with unlimited talk, text, and data for just $355 a month. Remember, their numbers, $800, 411, 4454. 800 411 4454, 800 411 44. Consumer cellular ranks number one for network coverage and for customer satisfaction according to ACSI. And when you switch, you'll talk to an actual human being based right here in the United States. No long-term contracts, no hidden fees. You can keep your phone or choose a new one. Get an additional $50 off when you switch today using promo code Hugh 50.

And do not forget, if you are over 50, you get a single line, unlimited, talk, text, and data for $35 a month. Visit consumercellular.com slash hue and use promo code Hugh 50. Or call 1-800-41144 and use promo code Hugh 50. Welcome back, America, as promised, Admiral William McRaven is back. That, of course, is Lee Greenwood singing, Admiral. He did that last night on the mall. He's been doing that, believe it or not, for 42 years since 1984, he started doing that at public events. And I wanted to start there because the last essay in your brand new book, and welcome back, duty on our country and life, is about pride in saying I'm an American. And I never knew about Ike's... first inaugural address until I read through duty honor country and let how did you come upon Eisenhower's inaugural address Well, first, Hugh, it's always great to be with you. Thanks for having me back on the show. You know, when you're researching these things, when you're writing a book, as you well know, I spent a lot of time and effort taking a look at MacArthur. And, of course, Eisenhower, one of the great heroes in American history, both as a general and as a president. I've always been a fan of Eisenhower's. And so as I began to, you know, wonder, okay, where are the words I'm looking for to kind of wrap up? this idea of duty on our country without having to repeat MacArthur a number of times. I mean, Eisenhower's first inaugural address really just, you know, resonated with me. The quote you pull on that I leaned on is he proclaimed America's, quote, faith in the desolate dignity of man and the values that form this great republic, freedom, equality of the rule law, and the power of the people. And you ended the book by saying we need to be able to proudly say, I'm an American. You know, the polling's not so good on that right now, Admiral. Does that alarm you? Yeah, of course it does. But the whole reason I wrote the book, Hugh, was to let other Americans know that, look, we are really good people. And the problem is if all you do is listen to the news coming out of Washington, D.C., and all you do is listen to, you know, the left or the right, you're going to get a different opinion. I am on the road four or five days a week. I travel all around the country. I teach a class at the University of Texas and Austin. I have an opportunity to meet with people from every corner of the country and every corner of life. And I will tell you, almost everybody I meet with has kind of the same sense of values that we would want. The sense that, look, we need to be honest. We need to be people of character and integrity. We want our children to grow up and have the value system that we believe is important.

And unfortunately, when all you do is here, again, the rhetoric coming out of D.C., you can lose a little hope. But I will tell you, I remain optimistic. I remain hopeful. And yes, I'm worried about the divisiveness. But I think more of that divisiveness you see on the press than you do actually in real life. Well, I hope you keep writing books because in the most recent NBC poll, the military has the highest confidence in which the most Americans are the most proud. It's the military. My business is the least admired and absolutely has like zero support, maybe 11% in the poll. Admiral, I want to talk about sitting on the porch. You just talked about your travel schedule. I hope it's all for Washington Speakers Bureau, and I hope it's some of it's for your elyomasonry stuff. But I love this thing on the porch poem, and I didn't know you were a poet until I read this book in the last week. When did you start doing that? Well, as I mentioned in the book, my mother was an English teacher, and she loved poetry. And she had this book, 101 famous poems. And they were kind of the classics that they were, you know, Kipling and Wordsworth and Ella Wheeler Wilcox and kind of the great classic poets. And I have probably read every poem in that book, you know, 10 times. And so she always kind of encouraged me. Because my dad was the football player, the fighter pilot, you know, the hunter. But, you know, you're always a little bit of your mother and your father. And I think she wanted me to be a little bit more inclined towards, you know, reading and writing and the essence of poetry. So I started writing poetry at a young age. It's not good for my tough guy seal image, but I do like to write poetry. I think it's very good poetry. I'm going to use two verses from sitting on the porch. As a, I nudged to everyone out there sitting, listening, or watching on the Salem News Channel. The longer I rock, the more it seems that sitting on the porch is only for dreams. For sitting on the porch, I can still hear the sound of the sirens both distance and near. That's my view as well. We're both in our 70s. There's no time to sit on the porch. I do want to talk a little bit now about Secretary Bill Gates and Secretary Panetta. I was honored to be with Secretary Panetta a couple weeks ago. getting between Rahm Emanuel and Carl Rove and Tim Ryan is not a good place to be. I was in a kind of a crouch. But Secretary Panetta kept it all even keel. But Secretary Bill Gates, I said the same thing about Secretary Panetta, I could say about Bill Gates. Truly American public servants at the highest level. They served both parties. They did their jobs. But tell the Bob Bill Gates Boy Scouts. It comes from your essay on Boy Scouts. I don't think I'd read it before. Maybe it's in one of your earlier books. But I thought that was really my understanding of Secretary Bill Gates.

Well, thanks for bringing up both of them. They are two of my personal heroes. You know, the bin Laden raid would never have happened without Leon Bonetta and Bob Bill Gates. But more than that, you know, I served for both of them when they were Secretary of Defense, and both were, to your point, tremendous public servants. But I tell the story in the book about the bin Laden raid. And as we are, you know, periodically meeting with the President and his national security team, Secretary Bill Gates is not in favor of the seal raid. And every time we'd meet, the president would kind of go around the room and say, okay, where are we? And every single time, you know, Bill Gates would say, nope, I don't support the raid. So finally, after one of the meetings in the situation room, you know, we go outside the situation room and I pulled the secretary aside and I said, Mr. Secretary, I work for you. If you don't want me to advocate for the raid, please let me know. And I won't do that. And again, and what I think was one of the probably the kind of personally courageous and professionally courageous thing, he said to me, he said, no, Bill, you have an obligation. to provide your best military advice to the commander-in-chief, and that's what I expect you to do. Whether I agree with that advice or not, your job is to provide the best military advice. And as a result of that, of course, the mission went forward. But in spite of the fact that he didn't believe in it, in spite of the fact that he had real concerns, he knew I had an obligation to tell the president exactly what I was thinking. And I always appreciated that. Well, I want, we have a considerable readership inside the current White House. I hope they read Duty Honor Country and Life, if only to see the President of the United States deserve to hear what you're thinking or you shouldn't be in the room if you're not going to tell it to him. So that's a great bit of advice. Now I want to go to the, another thing, there's lots I learned from your book, and so thank you for that. I did not know about the 5009th celebration. Would you tell people about that, and I'll circle back to what matters in your speech? Yeah, so the 500th night celebration is held at West Point, U.S. Military Academy at West Point, and it is for the junior class. So these are the cadets, men and women, who have 500 days left before they get commissioned. So I was very honored to have the opportunity to speak to the 500 night. And, of course, as a Navy guy, you know, you don't often get a chance to speak to young Army cadets. And oh, by the way, I'm not a Naval Academy guy. I was an ROTC guy. So it's kind of a double honor I felt on my part to be able to talk to these young cadets. Well, when we come back from break, we're here to break. I'm going to talk to you about what you had to say to him. There's a lot in duty, honor, country, and life. It's a collection of Admiral McRaven's speeches, his essays, his reviews, his poems.

and a few reflections drawn here either and not. It's a perfect book for July 4th. So I put it in the bag of the books we're doing as we walk up to our semi-susquentennial. So don't go anywhere. Admiral McRaven will be right back after this. Stay tuned to The Hugued Show. Welcome back, America, Hugh Hewitt, with Admiral William McRaven, retired the United States Navy, author most recently of duty, honor, country, and life, a tribute to the American spirit, magnificent book, a reader, so you can pick it up and put it down all throughout our semi-susquantennial year and get something out of every chapter. Admiral, from your speech at West Point, you told the cadets, I guarantee you in the course of your career you will work for leaders whom you don't like and don't respect. It will be easy to make fun of their idiosyncrasies, their receding airline, their soft chin or their spouse. Be very careful about being too smug, opinionated, too righteous. Avoid the rolling eyes, the whisper campaigns, and the junior officer dissension. I learned that great Army officers know how to follow. And you also said, this sailor has learned there's no more noble calling in the world than to be a soldier in the United States Army. Well, you were a junior officer once, so I guess you probably had those same temptation. It applies to every workforce everywhere in America. There's no upside and downside. None. I've said that forever. Is there a unique problem in the military with that because everyone's trained to go out and lead? No, I don't think so. But, you know, what I saw, and you're right, Hugh, part of this stems from my experience as a young junior officer. And, you know, by the time I came into the SEAL teams, the Vietnam War was over, and a lot of our commanding officers at the time, oh, they were old guys. They must have been maybe 40 years old, you know. So those of us that were in our 20s. and who could still run 10 miles pretty fast. You know, sometimes there was the belief that our commanding officers, maybe not as they weren't as smart or as sharp. And in fact, of course, as you get more and more senior, what you find out is the men that were in these positions were wickedly smart, really knew their trade. But sometimes as a young officer or, frankly, a young person even in the corporate world, like I said, you get this little sense of righteousness. that is probably misplaced. And you've got to be a little bit careful about thinking that you're smarter than the man or woman that's leading you, because when you get to that position, you're going to find that the challenges they have, the decisions they made were incredibly difficult, and you'll be thankful that you learned a lot as a young officer in my case. Okay, another favorite part of this. I did not know your dad was a fighter pilot in World War II and in Korea, but I didn't know that he played for the Cleveland Rams. As a Cleveland Browns fan, that hit home with me for a couple years before the war. But you watch football with your dad a lot, and you talk about that, that it's a team sport, it's a tough sport, it's a meritocracy. Your dad taught you in life the 120 yards of turf on a football field is worth doing. But you were watching the Notre Dame victory over Navy.

46 to 44. The Navy victory over Notre Dame. I remember that because it doesn't ever happen in Afghanistan. That must have been a wild experience. Well, it was. And I happen to be visiting Afghanistan at the time as opposed to being deployed there. And this is, as I say in the book, I mean, I think it had been 40-some-odd years since Navy had beaten Notre Dame. And, of course, the predictions ahead of time, because Notre Dame had all these five-star recruits and Navy had none, that this was going to be, you know, just a stomping on the part of Notre Dame. And, of course, after the, you know, the first regular time, I mean, it's tie after the first overtime, it's tied after the second overtime. And then finally, I think it goes into a third overtime and Navy wins. And the point I raised about that, and I've had an opportunity to talk to a number of teams about this is, look, you know, you've got to fight every second of every play. Every second of every play, you've got to give it your best. And it's not just on the football field. It's in life. And so the point of that story is that my dad used to tell me this all the time. He said, look, you're only as good as your last game. You've got to win and you've got to fight for your position every single time. And you always have to give it your very best every second of every play. It's a great speech. I recommend it to every football coach in America and every parent of every football player out there. It'll give you a love of the game that you didn't have before. A couple of poems I like, I very much like the voice about your belief in God and when it comes in. But you've got to say, I was very touched by your poem about Afghanistan. The Hindu Kush are quiet now. There seem to be embedded in that poem, regret for the people of Afghanistan, not for our going, not for our fighting, not even for the casualties that we suffered for whom you mourn, but for the people of Afghanistan who may very well miss the Americans now. Yeah, you know, a lot of these poems and my wife, Georgian, who you know, she says sometimes my poems are angry, and I think they are angry. The poem I wrote on, I remember, is clearly an angry poem. But the departing Afghanistan, I wanted, because this was, I wrote this before the fall of Kabul, but there was still a lot of discussion at the time that, you know, our fight in Afghanistan was a failure. And the point I make is, look, Yes, you can, maybe the historians will make this decision, but for 20 years, you know, we haven't been hit a people. And the people that you understand, the ones you meet that aren't trying to kill you, these are generally good and nice people. And I do think they will regret the fact that we're not there and stuff. Admiral McRaven will be right back. Don't go anywhere, America. The book, again, is duty, honor. country and life, a tribute to the American spirit. And it is indeed that. We'll lift your spirit. Got and get at Amazon, Barnes & Noble bookstores, and come back one more segment. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Admiral William McRaven, retired United States Navy, author most recently of Duty, Honor, Country, and Life. First, just a note.

Robert Barnett was my agent, too. I think Bob brought you together with me for the first time. I think your dedication to him and your remembrance of him at the end is fabulous. I want the people out there who know Bob Barnett to go and read that. I want to talk about two of your speeches. First of all, to the Ancient Order of Hibernians in Savannah, mostly because your aid gave you. gave you the notes on the society, and he said the Irish were indignant, not indigent. Indigent. How did he react when you gave him the right word, Admiral? Do you remember? Yeah, it was pretty funny. So as you can imagine, this is a room filled with all men. I think there was one woman in the room who was kind of helping out, but it's all male. A whole bunch of Catholic priests and bishops, a lot of Irish that are there. And so the little story I tell them to begin with was, as I'm beginning to write my speech, I wanted to, I didn't know much about the Hibernian society. And my aide came up and he said, well, sir, you know, I read up on the Hibernian society and there are a bunch of Irishmen, indignant Irishmen. And I said, indignant, meaning they were mad and they were upset. And I thought, well, I guess, you know, you leave Ireland, the potato famine, the religious persecution. Yeah, you can be indignant. Well, it wasn't indignant. It was indigent. Meaning that they were kind of poor and nobody was helping them. And that's why they started the society. So needless to say, that got a little bit of a chuckle out of the crowd. But the point I make in the speech, of course, is that there's a little bit of Irish in all of us. And it is this kind of fighting spirit, this belief in justice and equality and religious freedom and the things that the Irish writ large have done. And I talk about all the Irishmen I knew during the war, guys like, you know, Dave Petraeus and Ray O'Dierno and Rich Sanchez. Not really Irishmen, but they had, you know, the fervor of the Irish. Well, it's a great essay. It's a great speech. I want to finish by talking about we could do Ada Coyne McRavens, the flag, because I think that's a fabulous little poem from your family or intrepidity. I can't say it still. I tried four or five times about not being fearless. But I want to go to your New York Historical Society speech, because in that, you write, to survive, the country must be welcoming, we must be smart, we must abide by the rule of law, we must be strong, and I think that means militarily strong. And then you write, we must ensure that we are good and honorable and noble. How do we do that, Adam McRaven? I think we have to expect more from our leaders, Hugh. I mean, this is one of the things, again, as I travel around the country, you point about the fact that, you know, there's a divisiveness. I'm not sure when I talk to people that that divisiveness exists day to day. I mean, I saw what happened during Hurricane Harvey. I saw what happened when the kids in Camp Mystic were washed away. People come together and they don't ask you, did you vote for Biden? Did you vote for Trump? They're just there to help. People want leaders that are good and honorable and noble. They want leaders to reflect what they think the values that are baked into our American DNA. And so I think we have an obligation as Americans to expect more from our leaders. Across the board, both sides, we should expect our leaders to tell the truth. We should expect our leaders to be dignified. We should expect our leaders to be decisive when they need to be compassionate, to take care of our allies.

We should expect that from our leaders. And I think that's the only way we get back to being kind of the good guys and getting back to being respected kind of globally and domestically. Now, you have no social media presence of which I'm aware, Admiral. I think you started an account in 2019 for like a day for a book and you just told Bob, no, I'm not going to do this part. Do you think social media is making it difficult for people to be good and honorable and noble? I think social media serves a couple purposes. One, I do think social media for the Gen Z and for the millennials, I think it keeps them connected in a way that, as a baby boomer, you know, we didn't have. And so the connection piece, I think, is important. Unfortunately, I think what happens on social media is that those that scream and yell the loudest get the most number of clicks, and that seems to be what gets downloaded into people's brains. And so there's a, again, there's a good side to everything. There's a good side to social media. It keeps us connected. It keeps us informed. There's a bad side to social media. And that, again, the people screaming the loudest that are the most virulent, seem to get the most clicks. And that seems to be what comes into our living rooms. Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't conclude in the interview, let everyone know. Of course, there's a lot about the military in duty, honor, country, and life, including a wonderful poem called The Crosses and an Army infantry officer who writes you a note, I will be infantry again, including the ranger who was double amputated between his knees, who you saw at a ranger workout and a year and a half later, leading a command. So there's a lot in here for soldiers. But what will surprise... Doctors and nurses get a lot of shutout from Bill McRaven. I gather you've spent enough time prone in a hospital to appreciate it. Yeah, I have. Probably way too much time. And then, of course, I spent a lot of time in Iraq and Afghanistan watching the great doctors and nurses take care of our wounded. And that is incredibly inspiring. To the Army Navy doctors and nurses that you have met, are they four and eight-year people and then out, or are they careerists? Yeah, you got both of them. So in Afghanistan and Iraq, you know, we just didn't have enough, you know, career military medical personnel to be able to handle all the combat hospitals. So you had a lot of reservists that were called up. And, you know, the funny thing was there was a little bit of kind of mashness to them. You know, sometimes they didn't wear their uniform right. They didn't know what to salute. But I will tell you, they were God's gift to the soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, because they came, they came prepared to work. They saved countless thousands of lives, and they did so with, again, the kind of talent that we would hope from our doctors and the kind of compassion we would hope from them as well. And the last comment is a salute to Uncle Sam Lon, your great uncle. He wrote about friendship on page 136. The practice of friendship is the most remarkable relation of man. Aristotle agrees with that, by the way. I'm curious. We got one minute. Over the years. over your 37 years in the Navy and beyond. Is there a hardcore McRaven friends, or are you part of a hardcore of a few group of friends with whom you entered the military?

Yeah, I mean, I still have contact with a lot of the guys that I entered the military with. I was just texting with one of them today. But I think the great thing about the military, at least for me, has been that you move for an officer, you move every two years. And so every time we'd move, we'd make new friends. And so that circle of friends gets larger and larger and larger. And I'm blessed today to have, you know, yes, I have a group of very close friends. But I also value the friends that are, you know, on the outer circle that I've just met briefly in my time in the military or after the military. Well, congratulations on another great bestseller, duty, honor, country, and life, a tribute to the American spirit. The perfect book for our semi-suscentennial go out and get it. Admiral McRaven, always good to see you. Thank you, sir. In a world that screams for your attention, there is a place that invites you to peace. You don't need a building. You don't need a choir. You just need to turn your heart to air one. Air one. Songs that heal. Lyrics that pray for you when you don't have the words. From Lauren Daigle to elevation worship. And more. This isn't just radio. It's worship for the everyday. Escape the noise and worship now. Download the Air One app. Ask your smart speaker to play Air One or visit Air One.com. Air One. Worship now.