'The Kylee Cast' feat. Megan Basham, Ep. 11: What To Make Of Charlie Kirk's Massive Memorial

It During Lowe's pro savings days, save more on the brands you trust to deliver on the job. Right now, get a free DeWalt 20-volt max 8-amp hour battery when you buy a DeWalt 10-inch 20-volt max dual-bevel compound mitersault. Plus, get up to 35% off select major appliances. Save even more on what you need to keep the job moving. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through 731. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details. Big transfer news today. Who's moving? Me, to the couch, with Domino's best deal ever since they just added stuffed crust. Any pizza, any toppings now with stuffed crust for $9.99? It's a long-term contract with no release clause. Only $9.99? Yeah, that sounds like the move. I'm heading straight to Dom. Mmm, minos. Price is higher for some locations. Excludes Excel and specialty pizzas. Select this offer from 615 through 726. Online over. Size availability varies by crest type, max seven topics, six for hand in New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery. Prices, participation, delivery area, and charges may vary. There's been yet another deadly shooting by a left-wing terrorist, and I bet you can't guess how the media are responding. Plus, we discussed the political and spiritual implications of the huge Charlie Kirk Memorial with special guest Megan Basham. All of that and more on The Kylie cast.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Kylie Cast. I am Kylie Griswold, managing editor at The Federalist. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're just listening to the show, definitely go check out the full video version of the show on my personal YouTube channel or the Federalist channel on Rumble and then like and subscribe there as well. If you'd like to email the show, you can do so at radio at thefederalist.com. I always love to hear from you. Well, one of the biggest pieces of news from this past week was the massive memorial service for Charlie Kirk on Sunday. Truly, one of the biggest events I've ever seen, not only in person, but in the sheer volume of people who watched it around the country and around the world. And of course, it's Thursday. So a lot of people in the intervening days have already recapped the major highlights. I'm sure you've already seen them. But there are a couple of points, both political and spiritual, that I think are really important to address. On the political front, I saw a very interesting and insightful tweet this week, or ex post from Aaron O'Kelly, who said, quote, today was the first time I have seen Trump eclipsed by the movement that surrounds him. He wasn't the focus, nor did he give the most memorable speech among those given. Maga is much bigger than Trump, and it will endure after him. That is undeniably true. Trump was one of many speakers at the event, both people who are staffers for Charlie Kirk or TPUSA, cabinet secretaries, Erika Kirk, JD Vance, political pundits. There were many, many speakers. As the president, Donald Trump was the last one to speak at the memorial that was some five hours long or more. And his speech was very Trumpy. There were definitely some good highlights. But it was not even close to the most memorable or most power. speech that was given. And you know, I look at the state of the modern Democrat Party and I look at the different factions that are warring for control and for power. And of course, there are some names that have risen to the top as potential contenders for the next presidential candidate, for instance. But all of these candidates are subpar and or they have major issues that make them, I would argue, unelectable. You have somebody like Josh Shapiro that I don't think would ever get the nomination because there is such a large faction of the Democrat Party that is wildly anti-Semitic. Their prohamas faction is a real problem for them. Then you have Kamala Harris, who just became the de facto figurehead. But she's a disaster. And her book tour this week is just reminding us of that over and over again. And then you have people like Gavin Newsom who were like lab created to be a politician. He is the governor of the worst state in the union and has run it into the ground. That is just not the case of the Republican Party. And I'm old enough to remember when the best we could produce was Mitt Romney. Now you look at that stage. And you look at the heavy hitters and the young up-and-comers. You look at how strong the positions are and the communication of people like Stephen Miller and JD Vance and Tulsi Gabbard, even people like Erika Kirk. And you look at the many millennials and members of Gen Z that are in that room that are ready to take up the torch and that actually have a cause and a purpose that is driving them beyond just hating Donald Trump.

There is so much to be hopeful for for the future of the party. And this past weekend just really inspired confidence in that. And so I am very excited. And of course, there are plenty of things that could derail it. But this weekend just put into stark... focus, the fact that the Republican Party and the coalition that Charlie Kirk helps build is so much bigger than Donald Trump. And while he was such a great pick for this moment, he won't be around forever. He's only got a couple more years in office. But the movement will long outlive him. And that was abundantly clear. You know, I can only imagine what this moment would have looked like under a Kamala Harris presidency. Do you remember when she was promoting abortion at a campaign stop in the 2024 election? And some pro-lifers in the crowd started shouting Jesus is Lord. And this was her response. Oh, you guys are at the wrong rally.

you meant to go to the smaller one down the street. I mean this with all sincerity. Thank God we are not walking through this assassination moment with Kamala Harris at the helm. And I think what we saw on Sunday was a huge indictment of the never-Trump spokesman, such as David French and Russell Moore, who warned that Donald Trump would be such a moral stain on the party that either we would be less politically effective or less Christian. Well, look at the event. They could not have been more wrong on both counts. I mean, just look at Erika Kirk's speech. She didn't just talk about the utmost importance of upright men and women embracing their unique, God-given roles and prioritizing marriage and families. But she also shows what it looks like to love and forgive our enemies. So that's both a political win and a spiritual win, and I don't think anybody out there can argue that Erika Kirk is not effective. But beyond that, the gospel was also shared so... many times at the memorial. And here are just a few. Jesus left the glory of heaven's throne for the humiliation of an earthly cross. He was fully tempted, yet was without sin. For those of you who struggle with the word sin, it's real simple. It's an archer's term. Where the bullseye is and where the arrow lands, that's called the sin distance, how far you've fallen from perfection. And there are none righteous, no, not one. We've all missed the mark, the bullseye. And we try to get to God by our efforts, but there is no effort that will bring us back into the presence of a righteous God. You see, the wages of sin is death. Charlie knew this, and at an early age he entrusted his life to the Savior of the world. Jesus came to this earth, was tempted in all ways, yet was without sin, was crucified upon a cross. His blood was poured out because blood must be shed for the remission of sins. And his death upon that cross was sufficient for all the world's sins, but only efficient for those who, like Charlie, would receive him as their Savior. Jesus has come to seek and save that which is lost. And I would say this to all of you. The Lord loves you. He wants to save you. He wants to give you a new life. He wants to cover the multitude of your sins by the blood he shed upon the cross. The Bible says if you believe in your heart and you confess with your tongue, Jesus is Lord, you will be saved to the glory of the Father. Now I want you to know that Charlie right now is in heaven, not because he was the great husband and father, not because he saved millions of kids out of darkness on college campuses, not because he changed minds and chased votes to save the country, not because he sacrificed himself for his savior.

Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his Savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. Now look, there's only two things you can get in the afterlife. You can get justice or you can get grace. Ladies and gentlemen, does anyone in here, does anybody out there watching around the world want justice from an infinitely just being? I don't want justice. I want grace. Well, the only way to get grace for an infinitely just being is for him to punish an innocent substitute in our place. Where can he find an innocent substitute among us? He can't. We're all fallen. So what does this infinitely just and infinitely loving God do? He adds humanity to his deity. He comes to earth. He allows the creatures that rebelled against him to torture and kill him so he could place their punishment upon himself, and then by trusting in him, every one of us can be forgiven and then given his righteousness. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the greatest story ever told, and it happens to be true. There's evidence for this, and Charlie knew it. that we were all created, every single one of us, before the beginning of time, by the hands of the God of the universe, an all-powerful God, who loved us and created us for the purpose of living with him in eternity. But then sin entered the world and separated us from our creator. And so God took on the form of a man and came down and lived among us. And he suffered like men. And he died like a man. But on the third day, he rose unlike any mortal man.

And to prove any doubters wrong, he ate with his disciples so they could see and they touched his wounds. He didn't rise as a ghost or as a spirit, but his flesh. And then he rose to the heaven, but he promised he would return. And he will. From Rob McCoy to Frank Turrick to even Marco Rubio and more. Now multiply that by the more than 100 million people who streamed the memorial and the almost 100,000 more that were in the stadium. Millions and millions and millions of people heard the gospel, not once, not twice, but so. Many times. If they missed it the first time or the second time, they might have heard it the third or the fifth or the eighth time. It was shared over and over and over. And in light of all that, the never Trump arguments about Donald Trump's character are all just blather. At the end of the day, we now have an environment where Christianity can be proclaimed to the masses and be respected even by people who don't yet believe. And that is huge. And that's certainly not something we would have had under a Kamala Harris presidency. And it reminds me of the Apostle Paul's letter to the Philippian Church, where he says, quote, It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this, I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice. So yes, there were many at Charlie's Memorial and watching from afar who don't believe, including many of the speakers on stage. But there are also many who do believe. And there are also many who are brand new to the faith. And to you, I want to offer both an encouragement and a caution, if I may. First, a note of encouragement. If you have come to Christ because of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom, you have made the best decision you could ever make. And that's not to say the Christian life is easy. Ask Erika Kirk. But as she encouraged you on Sunday, this isn't just something you choose once and then put on the back burner. Christianity is a daily taking up your cross and following Jesus. So read your Bible, pray, repent of your sins, go to church, and then do it all again and again and again. And if you're a believer, the Holy Spirit is now indwelling you and will empower you. So make sure you listen to him. Keep reading scripture. Keep going. Keep growing. Be encouraged. And if you don't yet have a Christian community, find a gospel preaching church and get plugged in. But also, I want to offer a quick word of caution to what I would call cultural Christians. The people who like the idea of Christianity and its morals and those who really liked Charlie Kirk and his beliefs and his politics and people who feel like a part of Christianity because you share the same conservative politics as the Christian sitting next to you. But can I offer a caution that we make sure that we let our faith in Jesus inform our politics and not the other way around? I think there will be a temptation here and I know the devil will be working overtime.

But a temptation to see the type of evil that drives a young man to assassinate a 31-year-old father and to cast that evil as something that's foreign to you. That evil exists out there but not in here. Or to hear the gospel and to view it as something the Democrat Party really needs to hear. Or to think that you are on the side of Jesus just because you're on the same political team as Charlie Kirk. Scripture tells us that even our... righteous deeds are nothing but filthy rags in light of God's perfect holiness. Evil is not just a thing that needs solving in our country. Evil is something that needs solving in each and every one of our own hearts. Another word for evil is sin and there's only one solution and it's not the GOP and it's not an impressive memorial service. It is the good news that even though your sin does separate you from God and there is no way. No way, no political activism you can do, no good deeds you can do, no moral thing you can do, no being on the right team or with the right people that you can do to work your way back to God. But it's the good news that he sent Jesus to us instead to pay the penalty of death that we deserve. We all deserve it, whether you're an assassin or you're just a gossip. And then to rise from the dead three days later, defeating sin and eternal death for all who turn from their sin and believe on his name. So if you're just a cultural Christian, if you're just watching from the sidelines and admiring Charlie Kirk's faith from afar or thinking you're a part of it because you're a Republican, don't delay becoming a real Christian. The savior that radically transformed Charlie Kirk's life is ready and willing to transform yours too if you call upon him. So do it today.

Are young people really going into debt to impress? The Watchdog on Wall Street podcast with Chris Lisa Murkowski. Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Apparently, the ticket to attention for young people is going into debt to impress others by things like clothes and shoes. Two and five Gen Ziers admit to going into debt to impress. That'll get you into some trouble. Whether it's happening in D.C. or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdog on Wall Street podcast with Chris Lisa Murkowski. Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Possibility means you have a chance. Passion opens the door to all possibilities. When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy. I want to be an astronaut, an artist, an actress, to visit another country. All I need is a backpack and a pair of shoes, and I'll find a way. I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. They've never felt like more things are possible than right now. In the right shoes, anything's possible. DSW. countless shoes at bragworthy prices. Imagine the possibilities. There is plenty more to discuss as it relates to the Charlie Kirk Memorial. So joining me now to talk about it is Megan Basham. Megan, welcome. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me, Kylie. It's great to be here. Yeah, Megan is a culture reporter at The Daily Wire and also an author. She wrote the book Shepherds for Sale. And if you haven't read it yet, you should. And if you don't follow her on Twitter, what are you doing? You should follow her on Twitter as well. I follow her there every day. And she's been very helpful for me and a very clarifying voice in a very fraught culture. So Megan, I would love to know, first of all, just your impression of the memorial service overall. What did you think of it? And were you there in person or watching from afar? I wasn't. So I have surgery tomorrow and nothing major. It was just kind of the last piece of some cancer treatment that, you know, cancer is gone, but we knew I would have this kind of final surgery, which is a good surgery. They're kind of reversing some things that they had to do while I was going through treatment. So excited about that. But for that reason, I didn't go because I just felt like it was going to be too much. But I'm also kind of glad I didn't because I was able to sit home and watch like live reactions on social media as I was watching it. And what struck me was, first of all, I've never seen anything like that, not just in terms of the outpouring of love, affection, condolences for Charlie and Erica and their family. But I have never seen. Our federal officials, a president's cabinet, give glory to Jesus Christ specifically like that. I mean, we've all kind of in the past had even our, you know, most Christian identified presidents, somebody like George W. Bush, make sort of vague allusions to God. And they may talk about being a Christian, but I have never seen, you know, the secretary of state laying out a full gospel presentation. Yes. Yes. I mean, that just floored me or, you know, to have our secretary of war, Pete Hegseth, saying, you know, the blood of Jesus to wipe away our sins. And so it just felt like.

almost like a revival. I know a lot of people are talking about that. And that seemed to be the impact that it was having on people at home because as I was sitting there riveted watching the entire thing. I'm at the same time scrolling, and you're seeing people, you know, people that I know personally that are atheists going, you know, I started going to church because I'm just so struck by this moment and what Charlie stood for. Or, you know, I saw a Muslim woman say, I'm really interested in what these Christians have because they seem very different. So, you know, I mean, it's been said by a lot of people now, but it really did kind of feel like an old-time tent revival. Yeah, absolutely. One thing that really struck me was, and I mean, okay, I know that the Holy Spirit does not need our persuasive abilities in order to draw people to the Lord. Like clearly, God is the one who does all of the work. And like we can be the, we can share the gospel in the most clumsy way. And he can still use that to bring. to bring people to himself. But I was so encouraged and it was just the coolest thing to watch the same gospel presented in different ways by multiple people. Like everybody from Frank Turrick to Rob McCoy to like you said, Marco Rubio, it was like they're all sharing the exact same gospel, but you never know how it's going to resonate with different people depending on how it's presented. And so that was just such a unique moment I thought. just multiple people saying the same thing in different ways. It was. And, you know, I wrote about it a little bit. And what I said was, I don't, you know, I'm not under the illusion that every single person who was on that stage is a Christian. I know some aren't. But I have never seen an administration so willing to say that, you know, not only do we tolerate or welcome Christians into the administration and to serve, but we're, even if I'm not personally a Christian, we're giving a, full-throated, whole-hearted endorsement to Christianity on this stage. So that was really interesting. And, you know, for me, seeing even someone like Tulsi Gabbard, who I believe is a Hindu, still recognizing and honoring the faith of Charlie Kirk and the God that Charlie Kirk worships, I mean, that was meaningful to me. And I felt like this is sort of a restoration and a reclaiming of... America as a Christian nation, frankly. Yes, absolutely. Just the respect for it on the stage. And the Tulsi Gabbard one in particular, as I was listening to her speech, there were several things she said that, you know, kind of make me pause and cringe a little bit because they're like not, not quite right. But she's also out there sharing scripture. And it's like, scripture doesn't return void, whether it's a Christian saying it or not. Like that's still the truth being proclaimed whether she's a Christian or not. Right. I saw plenty of criticism, of course, of the memorial as well, both on one side of the spectrum from people who, you know, sort of smeared it or dismissed it as Christian nationalist. But then on the other side, there were plenty of people who criticized it as like syncretic. And so I would love to get your thoughts on what I thought was an excellent essay by Pastor Rich Lusk, another excellent Twitter follow. If you don't follow him, definitely do.

But he wrote about some of the strongest gospel moments of the memorial and also observed what you were just talking about, about the respect for Christianity in that room, even among attendees who weren't actually Christians. But this is what he wrote in his piece. And I want to get your thoughts on this. He said, quote, reformed Christians might be tempted to look down on the style of worship and music in the service and the imprecise theology on display. We shouldn't resist that temptation. What good is mature theology if you don't enter the fray and get into the battle? Evangelicals charging the Bill Gates of hell with slingshots and BB guns are more effective than reformed Christians who leave their jet fighters in the hangar and their battleships in the dock. An immature theology combined with courage and a willingness to act will always be more effective than mature theology and worship. that never enter the fray reform christians love to be the monday morning quarterback who criticized the normie evangelicals in the arena but those who are in the arena are the ones through whom god is working to bring change and quote wow and what an image of of uh storming the Bill Gates of hell with the bevy gun but i would love to get your thoughts on that and whether you agree disagree what you think yeah i actually retweeted that particular part of it because i did agree and you know i come out of a reform tradition i For those who follow me, well, no, I'm a big John MacArthur fan. I'm Calvinist. And so if I err, I probably do tend to err towards that judgmental, you know, doctrinal sifting going they didn't quite have their doctrine right here or this was error. So I get that impulse. And yet at the same time. I go, we cannot constrain the Holy Spirit in what was clearly happening there. And my friend Natasha Crane, who if you don't know her, she's another author and, you know, she has a great podcast with Elisa Childers and does a lot of work in apologetics. And she talked about. What she took away from Charlie's example and what I think you could take away from this memorial was always wanting to write and not speak because she wants to have her doctrinal points down pat and not have anybody criticize and say you mess this up or you didn't get this right. And. And I'm paraphrasing. It's been a couple days since I read it. So if I'm paraphrasing wrong, forgive me, Natasha. But what it felt like she was saying to me was there's a point of pride there that you want to have it perfect, instead of just say, you know, just speak. Now, we don't want to be reckless. But if we're always trying to get it just perfect, is it about us or is it about sharing the truth with a lost world? And so, you know, that was part of what I saw. And there were things, you know, there were people on the stage. Again, I know some of the worship leaders whose doctrine I would not agree with. And yet in that moment, I realized that their...

they're bringing an American audience to Christ. They're presenting the gospel. They're doing those things. And so, you know, I don't know all their hearts, but even if their doctrine is wrong, I kind of went, this is a good moment. And even if, you know, Christ is preached by those who don't believe everything just the way they should, he's still being preached. And I think that was a really good thing. So, and that's not to minimize the importance of doctrine. I do think it's important. I think these, you know, distinctions are important. And yet. I feel like this is a moment for not quenching the Holy Spirit, so to speak. I mean, it just felt like to me there was such a recognition that we as a nation need, not just God, but Jesus Christ. And so, you know, I wouldn't want to step on that message with nitpicking at this point. Right. Right. Yeah, that post that you're referencing by Natasha was excellent. And what an effective lie from the enemy, that pride, that we cannot be effective if we can't say things perfectly. And I mean, that was just an excellent post. I resonated a lot with it. And just to bring it full circle, I mean, I think if I'm recalling correctly, and I also read it a few days ago. She was specifically referencing how she would nitpick, especially the early days of Charlie Kirk, of like, ooh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't quite say that that way or maybe that's too abrasive or whatever. And just the fact that it's like, look in that room, look around the globe. you know, hundreds of millions of people witnessing the gospel because of a guy who was willing to just get up and say the thing, even if it was a little bit clumsy or even if it wasn't perfectly finessed. And I mean, you could argue that by the time, by the time he died, like he really had finessed his message and, you know, but that's a really important point just to be willing to stand up and say what needs to be said, even if it's not, you know, the perfect messenger. So you also tweeted. Quote, this memorial is the nail in the coffin of third wayism. Praise God, no more lukewarm, inoffensive Christianity, end quote. For listeners who are maybe not as familiar with the terminology here or with Tim Keller's approach to civic life and politics, can you explain what you mean by that? This weekend, someone is walking their dog. Someone is crossing the street to their car. Someone's kid is riding a bike home. And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit. Speeding accounts for nearly 30% of traffic fatalities, and most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live. Slow down. It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember, speeding catches up with you, know the road, and respect its limits. Presented by NHTSA, now back to your news podcast. Yes. So for those who aren't familiar with Thirdwayism, and I actually just wrote a piece that was published yesterday for Daily Wire, where I kind of got into this. So if you go back to 2016, Russell Moore, who is now the editor-in-chief of Christianity today, but was then the head of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, which is the policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, largest Protestant denomination, he...

wrote this thing in the Washington Post in 2016, where he basically said, Trump is the end of the religious right, meaning that Christians who supported him because of his policies are now so discredited that the next generation of Christians are either not going to be political or the next generation of conservatives aren't going to be Christians. So he's basically saying the James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, moral majority. model that we saw back in the 80s and 90s, that's over now because of Trump. And that was something that he was very much aligned with Tim Keller on. Tim Keller was also, he said, I've never said I'm never Trump. And, you know, we lost Tim Keller. It was two years ago now. But he was clearly very opposed to Trump. Anytime he spoke about him or wrote about him, it was always with the tone of, I am concerned about what Trumpism is doing to Christianity in the United States and doing to our evangelical witness in the U.S. And so Tim Keller published this blueprint. for how Christians could bring about revival in the United States. And in this blueprint, he basically said that political moderates were going to need to separate from Trump supporters. And what he laid out was that Christianity is neither right nor left and that Christians should not follow a donkey or an elephant. They follow Christ. And to a certain extent, that's true. For Keller, what that meant was we don't pick aside then politically. We are this third thing that is, you know, somewhere in the middle or somewhere outside of politics, which sounds good, but boots on the ground, it doesn't work. You have to pick aside. And then the other thing that it did was Keller's third wayism that would say we're neither right nor left. It elevated what I would call biblically debatable issues, things like what should our border policies be? How do we approach a subject? like climate change? Do we believe that, you know, human activity is creating catastrophic meteorological changes? Or is it, you know, just something that happens naturally and we're not having that big of an impact? So those are things that I would say there was not a clear biblical imperative. But for someone like Keller, they would say these social justice, you know, that was an... issue that he spoke out about a lot, immigration, that those have the same weight as something to me that has much more moral clarity like abortion or should we, you know, perform transgender procedures and treatments on children. So he would say we're going to do this third way thing. And by doing this and by not identifying with right or left, that is going to show that we as Christians embrace this third thing. We don't belong to either party. So obviously when we're talking about Charlie Kirk. he did something very different. Right, right. Yeah. And it's so funny now looking back on that, just the fallacy of because, okay, so third wayism, I mean, that really paved the way for the after party and the never Trumpism of the David Frenches and the Russell Moors. And, you know, on and on that list is, it's not actually long, but there's quite a litany of them.

But boy, are they active. You just see them all the time. So it feels like there's a lot. Right. I think my algorithm punishes me. But they do pick a side. They purport to be this objective, you know, third, third way. But in actuality, it's, you know, it's always nuanced, left, punch, right. They've clearly chosen a side. It's not a third way. So that's the irony. I think what they were really, I mean, and when you kind of push away all the rhetoric and the jargon of third way and both sides, what you really get to is they were trying to make room for Christians to vote for Democrats. To me, that's the bottom line. As they were trying to say, well. Yes, abortion is wrong and we shouldn't kill babies. But if you also feel like we need to grant amnesty to these people who've been in the United States, that's also an important issue. So maybe you want to vote for a Democrat. Whereas I would go, these two things are not moral equivalents. Right. One is murder and one is a debatable issue. Yes. Yes. And they did this a lot by conflating a person's personality, i.e. Trump, with. the Democrat policies or vice versa, where, you know, you would look at, yeah, well, Trump is more pro-life or less, less pro-abortion, but he's he's irredeemably a bad guy. You know, he personally has all of these problems, whereas Joe Biden, sure, he, you know, supports abortion, but look at his moral character, which I also think was false, but just this. It didn't work either. I'm like, yeah, look at his moral character. Right. Right. He's a jerk. Yeah, but we were never comparing, you know, policies with policy. and character with character. It was always tarnishing Trump supporters by their character while ignoring the policy implications, which were huge. They really, really can't be ignored. So I'm curious. I was sorry, I didn't mean to Stephanie, but I was just going to say when I look at it as, I mean, they would have argued, too, that we did this for evangelistic reasons. We didn't want to put up stumbling blocks to people coming to Christ by suggesting that, you know, we believe that homosexuality is a sin. And if we're going to be really bold about that at the outset, then that will, you know, prevent some people in where Keller was ministering in New York City from coming to Christ. Well, you know, I, when I sit back now and look at someone like Charlie Kirk, I actually think that what we're seeing is that the Keller Moore model was wrong and the Charlie Kirk model, which is being unashamed and being bold and saying, actually, we believe these things are sin. We believe this is murder. We believe this is immoral. That those actually had more tendency to draw people in a world that's starving for truth. Right. But I think that's what they would have said. I mean, you know, if we look at that Kirsten Powers essay that she wrote, she went to Tim Keller's church for quite a number of years. I understand she was a Democrat, CNN contributor. And when he died, she wrote a sort of a eulogy memorial for him. And in it she noted, that she didn't know for a long time when she was going to there to Tim Keller's church that the church believed that abortion was murder or that homosexuality was a sin because those things weren't talked about from the pulpit. She kind of had to find it out on the sly in the small groups and just sort of, she said through osmosis, she kind of figured out, oh, I think this is what they believe. But she didn't know it from the preaching from the pulpit. Right.

Right. And I think there are certain political issues where if you don't know your church's stance on it, you know, fine. Like if the church, if your pastor is not getting up on Sunday and talking about tax policy, that's probably a good thing. But abortion and and. the sexes are not political issues. These are inherently biblical issues. And so if you don't know what scripture has to say about them or they're not coming up, you know, even in the course of a year or two years from the pulpit and like as you're expositing scripture, that's a problem because they're not just political issues. They're fundamentally biblical issues. So that kind of gets to my next question, which is to what degree and maybe you don't think at all, but to what degree do you think that Charlie's life? And then also the response to his death indicts the modern American church. So in other words, do you think there's a cause and effect relationship between this third wayism and the winsomeness gospel, much of the church taking kind of a passive role in the formation of young men specifically and Charlie's style of engaging them directly with not only the gospel, but like practical biblical truths? Yes. I mean, so your question is how much impact do I think Charlie's model had and do I think the winsomeness approach that we saw for the last couple of decades that that failed young men? Is that the question? Yeah. So like is Charlie's ministry and the effectiveness of his ministry? To what degree do you think that's an indictment on the church and how it's failed to sort of address these issues? Sorry, I asked it in a very convoluted way. No, that's good. And I think it's a pretty big indictment. You know, I look at how many young men are coming back to church. And we, you know, we're seeing some statistics. And I don't have them in front of me. But I know, you know, we've just seen some studies showing that, and the New York, the New York Times actually reported on this, that right now, young men identify as more religious, more Christian than young women since we've been looking at that issue. So like for the first time in recorded history, the young men. are saying that they are more likely to go to church, that they are more likely to read their Bible, that they are more Christian. And I cannot help but pinpoint that specifically on Charlie's work with TPSA Faith and TPSA on the college campuses because I feel like nobody else was speaking to these young men. They were not the desirable demographic. We're talking about, you know, particularly young white guys in maybe suburban or rural areas who were just not seen as. the type of harvest, let's say, that we were looking to reap. So instead, what you saw from all of these ministries, and it was hugely influential. I mean, Tim Keller's model of urban evangelism, and it had some merits for its time and place, but it took over everywhere so that you had all of these churches thinking, well, we have to reach a certain type of, you know, urban. ethnically diverse and typically left-leaning kind of potential congregant. Those are the people we're trying to reach. And a friend of mine puts this.

in a, I think, a really sharp and helpful way, if you know, Joe Rigney, he talks about the progressive gaze that all of these ministries and pastors had. And by that, he means G-A-Z-E. So they have this idea that when they imagine who they're trying to reach, their default is, I'm trying to reach a young urban progressive. And that's why they would be so soft on talking about these particular... issues that might be offensive to that person. Whereas then you have a Charlie Kirk who did not care about that. I mean, he went out and talked to everybody, but you particularly saw young men responding. And so, you know, when I see these statistics showing that these young men are coming back to church, that they're reading their Bible, that they're becoming more conservative at the same time, by the way. We've seen a huge shift in young men becoming more conservative. I'm not saying it's just Charlie Kirk that did that, but I think... Charlie Kirk's ministry, and I use that word very deliberately because it was a ministry, helped create the cultural atmosphere and landscape that allowed that to happen. Yes. Well, because Charlie was offering something that most of the other influential... speakers who were appealing to young men, he offered them something that they didn't. You know, there are a lot of good things that young men can glean from the Joe Rogan experience and can glean from listening to Jim Jordan Peterson or, you know, even other parts of the manosphere, you know, take it or leave it. There's like parts that are good and parts that are bad. But, but all of them fall short by, they can offer purpose and they can offer, you know, temporal purpose and good rules for life for, um, you know getting your life kind of on track but they don't offer eternal hope and charlie kirk did and so that obviously set him apart and yeah it absolutely was a ministry um Yeah, that's for sure. This weekend, someone is walking their dog. Someone is crossing the street to their car. Someone's kid is riding a bike home. And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit. Speeding accounts for nearly 30% of traffic fatalities. And most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live. Slow down. It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember, speeding catches up with you. Know the road. and respect its limits. Presented by NHTSA. Now back to your news podcast. Charlie Kirk to me, look, I love Jim Jordan Peterson. But it is, there's a disconnect when you go, I find utilitarian value in Christianity, but I'm not a Christian. That is not going to move and transform people. Those of us who are Christians understand. Yes, that's true. Living by Christian principles is good. But. It's not the same as understanding I am a sinner and my fallen nature will always desire that which is harmful and destructive. And so I need transformation internally from the inside out by something outside of myself, by a power outside of myself. I cannot change these things on my own. And that is the difference between, you know, some of these.

influencers on young men who may have done some very valuable work, but they're not giving them the ultimate value of you are not just, you know, sort of chiseling off the rough edges, you were becoming a new creation. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. So just pivoting a tiny bit, the day after Charlie Kirk died, our friends over at Christianity Today, where Russell Moore is the editor-in-chief ran with this headline. I'm going to put it on the screen. quote, died Charlie Kirk, activist who championed Maga Doctrine. Obviously, they got a lot of pushback for this headline. And this article was written by the same guy who wrote a whole article calling into question the biblical accuracy of Jesus being nailed to the cross and then later had to apologize. But then this week, Christianity today seemed to pivot pretty hard to this framing. These headlines read Charlie Kirk's five-hour memorial combined gospel and politics. It mentions that Erika Kirk forgave her husband's killer, the worship, yada, yada. And then the other headline, why Charlie Kirk landed with young men like me, which is another pretty glowing looking article here. I saw you tweeting about this. And I'm wondering if you think that this is something we can or should celebrate without real repentance from the leadership of Christianity today. Yeah, I am, I'm really conflicted about this. And I was kind of, you know, just riffing. I was literally dictating into my phone as I put up that. I didn't remember now what it said. It was several paragraphs long, but I was just dictating into my phone riffing on my thoughts about what do I do with this reaction from Christianity today. Because, you know, in that initial headline, as you can see, they make no mention of his faith. No mention of. the gospel preaching that he did, of the evangelistic wing of his organization. They didn't mention that at all. And a lot of people rightfully contrasted that with them trying to grab anything they could with George Floyd to go, look, he was this laudable human being. So they said George Floyd left a gospel legacy, which, look, I'm glad that George Floyd had. moments in his life, parts of his life where he seemed to understand that he needed the gospel. But he also died with a huge amount of narcotics in his system resisting arrest. So a lot of people, you know, rightly contrasted Christianity's treatment at Charlie Park to George Floyd. That was part of the outrage. And then I look at what they're doing now. And there's, there's a cynical journalist part of my brain that goes, this feels like PR cleanup. Like we went too far. We have damaged our already very tarnished brand. And, you know, something to know about the guy who wrote that headline is as he, as he's been covering politics.

and interviewing politicians for Christianity. He was also making donations to Democratic candidates, including Elizabeth Warren. So, you know, the person who wrote that headline is a Democrat himself. So, you know, that's an interesting thing to know that maybe they went, oh, he went too far. He's an anti-Kirk person. And now we have to, you know, clean up the spill on aisle five. So on the one hand, I'm of that mind. But on the other hand, I also kind of take it as a win because. I don't know in recent years that I've really seen Christianity today recognize in a way that I could pinpoint it and go, okay, they realized they went too far. Like even for their sort of squishy, moderate middle audience, they've gone too far. So that's possible. I mean, and I can't help but see it that way. But there's also a part of me that's like, maybe, maybe they went and watched a bunch of Charlie Kirk engaging with these kids on college campuses. Maybe they thought they understood who he was by reputation and by the false narratives that they had heard. And when they actually, you know, maybe somebody went, I'm going to go write up something about his record. And then they actually saw what it was. Sure. And when you see what it is, you cannot deny the strong Christian faith and not just Christian faith, but. I'm actually going to use the word, the winsomeness of Charlie Kirk when he would be on these college campuses. He didn't pull punches about the truth, but he was very kind. He was very engaging. He was loving when he was dealing with some of these gender confused kids on college campuses. And so, you know, you have a hope that maybe they saw that and recognized we screwed up. This guy was not who we thought he was. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why Russell Moore's publication led him in the door because they finally realized he actually was winsome. Yeah, I much more fall into the first of you, I think. But I do think it is important. I do think it's important to give people the opportunity to change course also. But I do think in some ways that requires some degree of admitting wrongdoing and repenting. But yeah, that's a great point. Look, on just a totally, you know, crass political level, I'll also take it as a win. Because I think the vibe shift is very real and you do have some publications. Gospel Coalition is another that I don't think would have touched Charlie Kirk with a 10-foot pole when he was alive, suddenly lauding him. And I take that as a win too because you go, well, there has been a shift in the Overton window. And you now have some of these publications that I think are realizing we are now outside of the window for mainstream Christianity to the left. And we're going to have to move if we're going to get back into the mainstream of it. Yeah, great point. Yeah. I don't subscribe to Christianity today, but they keep sending me issues in the mail, I think, to try to get me to subscribe. So maybe this is just one more effort to try to get. You're like a young, are you, Gen Z, probably, very young. I'm like right at the end of millennial. Yeah. So you're actually their target audience. They're like, look, she's a young woman. Young professional successful woman. You're supposed to be their target audience. Yeah, they think that I am, the progressive gaze, they're including me in that because they think I'm part of that. Yeah. Well, before I let you go, Megan, just to flip to a more personal note, first of all, I just want to recycle this wonderful, wonderfully awful tweet that we got from Ray Orland and David French. This is just a great time to remind people.

Because I'm so curious what this moment would have looked like. And I'm so glad we don't have to know what this moment would look like under a Harris presidency. Because honestly, praise God, just for the amount of glory the Lord is getting, even from our non-Christian president, Donald Trump, with respect for Christianity. But because of that, I know in my. personal life i have seen not just on twitter you know because of course i've seen lots of tic talks and tweets of plenty of people saying i've never opened the bible before but i'm doing it for the first time or i don't even know how to pray but i'm praying or i'm going to church this sunday i've never stepped foot in a church or whatever But even in my own personal life, I know people who are coming to church now or, you know, this isn't just, this isn't just anecdotes from Twitter. This is real life. And so I'm wondering, before you go, if you have any beautiful gospel anecdotes from the past couple of weeks that you can share with our listeners. Yeah, I do. You know, I'll just say that. my husband's trainer, for instance, he's got a young 20-something trainer. When this happened, called and said, hey, can we come to church with you all? And my husband had been talking to him about church before that, but it was this moment, I think, that made him go, hey, I'd kind of like to check out your church and take him up on the offer. So, you know, we experienced that personally, too, that suddenly people in our own lives were like, my brother's going to shoot me but my brother's one of them who's not typically a churchgoer love him i tease him a lot because i'm his church lady sister that he needs to get in church and uh he was there that weekend too so you know that was a huge win for me that i went yes what did you think he's like no it's good so i you know experiencing it too in in our own lives that i just went All over, there is a Christ curiosity. And we need to capitalize on that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's a specific, some specific people in my life that I have been not only evangelizing, but praying for for quite a while now. And they came to church for the past two weeks. And I'm just so, there's such a bitter sweetness and just like. such a Charlie Kirk legacy to that that it's like that's exactly what he would want to see. But I, you know, the first couple of times that you're sharing the gospel, you don't imagine that these will be the types of catalyzing moments or the types of things that will water those seeds. But praise God for any souls in any way that they come to the father. Like it's just, it's awesome to see it happening. So I love these personal stories. Get it offline and into the real world. So yeah. Amen. Absolutely agree. Yeah, Megan, thank you so much for joining me today. It was great to have you on the podcast. If you don't follow Megan Basham on Twitter, like I said, definitely do that. And I really hope to have you back again soon. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. It's been great.

Insane. Axios went with, quote, ICE shooting sparks partisan blame game before facts confirmed. Yes, Axios, Republicans pounce. That's the real problem here. Here's Bill Crystal saying that actually it's Trump's fault. And broadcast networks were somehow even worse. We shouldn't be surprised. Here's MSNBC. Terrorism falls into really three categories. It's either religiously motivated, ideologically motivated, or in this case. politically motivated and the politically motivated ones it doesn't happen in a vacuum it happens because conditions have been set that people start acting out against what are the conditions so you know distrust in institutions that's been building for quite some time attacks on institutions the wealth gap oppressive policies at least this is what you know people perceive And then the militarization of ICE and other federal law enforcement, the wearing of the mask, aggressive tactics. So the people who are starting to act out against this feel it's their only recourse. Again, this is predictable. We see this happening throughout our history and in other places as well. So, you know, we can tone down the rhetoric, and that's the right message. But you also have to start looking at what policies you've implemented and what tactics you're using, because if you tone down the rhetoric, but you leave those other pieces in place. Nothing's going to change. So I wonder, of course, this is the same guy who not only said on Wednesday that the shooter probably wasn't left wing because inscribed bullets is actually a right wing thing, seriously. But he's also a former counterterrorism agent for the FBI. So this kind of rhetoric from him is particularly insane. At best, MSNBC analysts are negotiating with terrorists on live television, and at worst, the whole Democrat party has transformed into an abusive husband. Well, if you didn't lawfully exercise power in ways I didn't like, I wouldn't have to kill you. Hmm, something, something stochastic terrorism. This MSNBC analyst is actually right that political violence doesn't happen in a vacuum. But here's the environment it happens in. ICE is looking more and more like an American Gestapo. They're huddled around the elevator banks in masks without identifying information. What a terrifying, like these are Gestapo tactics. But it has created this year, as they've seen, the kind of fascist ICE Gestapo militias go round up Latino American citizens in places like LA. ICE agents, masked ICE Gestapo agents getting more funding than any other law enforcement. agency in the history of the United States. Ice running Gestapo-like around our country. The Gestapo had the same function. It was there to draw a distinction between us and them. It was not federally. It was controlled from the by the leader. And we're seeing disturbing similarities between this force and the Gestapo. We've got these masked thug cowards kidnapping innocent people and sending them off to be slaves or tortured in other countries. Dressing like thugs and acting.

like thugs. Democrat politicians and activists and media incite violence again and again and again. Now we're seeing explicit calls on Georgetown University's campus and on the streets of Virginia, and I'm sure many, many other places across the country that just haven't made their way to social media yet, that the time for nonviolent action is over. And then we get pathetic calls from lawmakers that we need to bring down the temperature and stop the violence on both sides and be unified against political violence and requests for Democrats to police themselves. And these calls are just so incredibly tone deaf and embarrassing. Here is Ted Cruz standing a thwart history shouting, please stop shooting us. Please stop calling us Nazis. This is the third shooting in Texas directed at ICE. or CBP. This must stop. To every politician who is using rhetoric, demonizing ICE and demonizing CBP, stop. This is not going to stop unless the Trump administration and our lawmakers use the full force of the federal government to make these terrorists and those who incite them pay dearly. Republicans and or conservatives control all three branches of government. And Americans and law enforcement officers are being gunned down in public for the simple fact of being Christians or part of the Republican administration, often by people affiliated with Antifa or other terrorist networks or pumped full of synthetic wrong sex hormones at the direction of the Democrat Party. Enough is enough. Trump and the rest of the party should be using every single tool at our disposal. The people who run the group that put up the Georgetown poster, for instance. should be having the FBI knocking down their doors already, strip any university that allows this type of behavior of any government funding or any special status, and criminalize the transmedical racket and start throwing so-called health care providers in prison who pump these troubled kids full of testosterone and exacerbate their mental illness. And don't even start with retorts that this could set a dangerous precedent and that Democrats could just turn this around on Republicans when they get back in power. Just stop. Where have you been? You mean like spying on Christians or investigating parents who don't want their kindergartners exposed to gay porn as domestic terrorists or domestic extremists or raiding the home of their chief political opponent and seeking to bankrupt and imprison him and the people who support him? or debanking people for the crime of being conservative, or disbarring lawyers who have conservative defendants. Democrats weaponized the full power of the federal government against conservatives for years, and they did it using ridiculous pretexts and bogus charges. Republicans using the federal government's legitimate power.

To punish legitimate crimes up to and including terrorism and murderous conspiracy is not an abuse of power. It's the only acceptable use of it. And it is not unprincipled to say so. The time has come. Enough is enough. We cannot continue to see headlines like this and see videos like this and learn information like this about more attacks and more terrorism every two weeks or even more frequently than that. The American people are done and conservatives are in power right now. So they need to do something about it that doesn't include going out and saying to the press, Democrats need to stop. No, we need to make them stop. All right. And that incredibly upbeat and happy note, that is all for me today. Now that I am all fired up. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode of the Kylie cast. We will be right back here next week with more. Don't miss it. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray. And I will see you next week.

This weekend, someone is walking their dog. Someone is crossing the street to their car. Someone's kid is riding a bike home. And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit. Speeding accounts for nearly 30% of traffic fatalities. And most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live. Slow down. It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember, speeding catches up with you. Know the road and respect its limits. Presented by NHTSA. Now back to your news podcast.