Catching up with a fired federal worker, a shrimper and a fraudster

NPR. This is the undergator from Planet Money. I'm Darym Woods here with Waylon Wong and Stephen Besaha. And we've been reflecting on how 2025 has been a little unusual for us at the podcast. There has been such a firehose of economics news every single day that we've just been racing from government cuts to historic tariff announcements to unprecedented AI deals. Yeah, we don't need to pitch news story ideas anymore. It's always just tariffs, tariffs, tariffs. Tariffs all the way down. I know. And just explaining what just happened, how this fits into the economy, what a 50-year mortgages. That's basically what we've been doing. And because events have been moving so fast, we wanted to check in with some people we've met through this wild ride through the economy. Like, after we got off the phone with them, how have they been doing? Yeah, so today's show, it is a special one. It's rest of the story from The Indicator. We meet up again with a woman fired by Doge, see how a pro-tariff Shrimper's business has been going, and learn about the consequences of a pretty brazen tech startup's fraud.

Elizabeth says she still stays in touch with all her old colleagues on group chats. You can smash the bureau, but we're all going to find each other outside of it. We're in constant communication about how can we attack this from. our new position. So yes, Elizabeth was pretty unhappy with events earlier in the year, even though it led to a pretty good position for her. Stephen, you talked to somebody who felt like he was a real winner from the government changes. Yeah, at least he was hoping that he was going to be. I wanted to catch up with someone who earlier this year was all in on President Donald Trump's tariffs. Oh, we're jumping. You know, we definitely support it. There's no doubt we support him 100% on this issue. That was A.C. Cooper in April, and he fishes for shrimp out of Louisiana. And he said for years, foreign shrimp have flooded U.S. market and forced many American shrimpers out of business. We spoke not long after Trump's big tariff announcement. And A.C. was happy to see tariffs on countries like India and Vietnam and hope that would lead to fewer shrimp imports. Right. Less competition. And so did that happen? Well, you know, there were some initial growing pains there. I called AC backup recently, and he said shrimp imports to the U.S. actually went up. The thing is that they dumped so many in here before the terrorists went into effect that they knew what was coming and they just flooded our country with shrimp. And when they flooded the market, did that plummet the price of shrimp? Yes, they went down a good bit. It's kind of a wild ride for AC this year. I mean, he's a shrimp, but he's used to some waves. Okay. But he did say, you know, prices have since started climbing back up, like more than the third higher than they were last year. And he's still all in on tariffs, even if it's leading to him paying more elsewhere, like, you know, repairs for his boat. We don't mind paying a little more if we make a little more. It's just part of the nature of the beast. Yeah, AC's big message here on tariffs is be patient. He's only been in there a year, give it a little time. And, you know, we're still backing 100% and think that it's going to turn out for the best. Yeah, and shrimp imports into this country, they're starting to slow down, which is what AC wants to really drive up that price. He's hoping next year tariffs will really help turn around U.S. shrimping. Is one concern, though, is if the Supreme Court declares some of Trump's tariffs illegal before they can really help. As of this recording, there's been no decision yet. Okay, so maybe we don't know for sure whether the tariffs are legal, but you know what is definitely super illegal? I think based on your segment, fraud? Yes, fraud. Okay. My big update is fraud still illegal, I think. So... I missed it. I was too busy covering AI. Okay, so I have an update that is almost three years in the making. It involves a startup founder who was charged with fraud in 2023, and we did an episode back then about this case. The company was called Frank. Do you remember this, Darian?

I think it has something to do of student loans. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. So for background, Frank was a company founded by an entrepreneur named Charlie Javis. Her startup helped people fill out financial aid paperwork for college. So good memory, Darien. JPMorgan acquired Frank in 2021 for $175 million. But then the bank learned that Charlie Javis had dramatically inflated the number of customers she had. So she went on trial this year and she was convicted on fraud charges. and sentenced to 85 months in prison. I can imagine the starting in the schoolyard of like inflating the number of friends she thought said she had or imaginary friends and contacts on Facebook that were actually bots. Her origin story. It's getting worse and worse. Yeah, you're like writing a whole screenplay. I love it. And before you like, you know, finish up that screenplay, it sounds like this is not the end of the saga, right? No, because listen to this. In the acquisition deal, Charlie Javis had a clause that J.P. Morgan would pay her legal fees, you know, in case the deal fell through. And that deal has been applied to her legal fees, plus those of another startup executive in this fraud case. According to Bloomberg, this is costing J.P. Morgan $128 million, which is almost as much as J.P. Morgan paid to acquire this startup in the first place. Whoa. So maybe if they just said, like, Okay, let's just forget this ever happened. We could have saved a lot of court time, lawyer's fees, and J.P. Morgan would have been no worse off, really. I mean. And, like, she did hire some high-profile legal counsel, but it wasn't just, you know, paying the hourly fees or whatever for the lawyers. According to the Wall Street Journal, J.P. Morgan's lawyers say the bank got billed for all these expenses that don't seem like legal fees at all, like luxury hotel upgrades and something called cellulite butter. That's a skincare product. Cellulite butter. I could just where I saw this, like, a New York Times headline where it's like they had to pay her, like, lunch. I don't think cellulite butter is part of the... like lunch charges. You don't eat it, Stephen. You put it on your stretch marks. A spokesman for Charlie Javis told the New York Times that the stuff about the hotels and the skincare was a ridiculous allegation. Meanwhile, JPMorgan is trying to get out of paying her legal bills and Charlie Javis is planning to appeal her conviction. So we're going to need a rest of the story for your rest of the story. I hope so.

Wow, so a case study in why we need to keep following these stories. Thanks to both of you for contributing to this rest of the story episode. Thanks, Daryan. I'm going to go order some shrimp before it gets more expensive again. Oh, I was going to order cellular butter. And I have no food-related things in my segment. Oh, Daryan's starving over there. This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie and Angel Creadas with engineering by Jimmy Kearley, who's fact-tracked by Sierra Juarez. Cake and Canon edits the show, and The Indicator is a production of NPR. Hey, it's Daryan Woods here. I just want to take a moment to talk about the vital role of public media. It was founded to provide news and information to everybody for free, regardless of anybody's ability to pay. We still believe in the mission of public media at NPR. But as of this fall, federal funding for public media, including NPR and local NPR stations, has been eliminated. Despite that, we remain committed to this work, to go beyond the headlines to show you how the economy affects your life. Just this year, we've done a bunch of big series on how batteries are changing the electric grid, on the business of crime, and the changing economics of Hollywood. In 2026, with your help, we can do even more. Thank you if you already go the extra mile as an NPR Plus supporter. If not, you can join the Plus community, get a bunch of perks like bonus episodes from across NPR's podcasts, and support public media by signing up for NPR Plus today. Just go to plus.npr.org. This message comes from designer shoe warehouse. You know that feeling when you find shoes you love at a great price and want to tell everyone about it? Find something to brag about at designer shoe warehouse, like the latest styles from brands you love, the trends everyone's obsessing over, and shoes that make you feel like you. Head to a DSW store or DSW.com today for shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. DSW, let us surprise you.