Meet the Press NOW — September 4

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If it's Thursday, public health and public outrage. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. is rebuked by Democrats and Republicans as he pushes misinformation on vaccines and the COVID pandemic during testimony on Capitol Hill, calling the recently fired CDC chief a liar and questioning the safety of all vaccines. Plus, new concerns about the labor market data shows private sector hiring slowed dramatically in August as President Trump battles new uncertainty around his tariff agenda and fights to control the future of the Federal Reserve. And President Trump speaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and European leaders about security guarantees for Kiev and upping pressure on Moscow as peace talks with Russia remain at a standstill. Welcome to meet the press now. I'm Kristen Welker on an extraordinary day in Washington, where the nation's top health official Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. faced bipartisan backlash during a combative hearing on Capitol Hill. As senators from both sides of the aisle expressed deep concerns about his leadership. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. testified that the CDC had been lying to the American public during the pandemic. He said that MRNA vaccines were dangerous and in a shocking moment appeared to confirm his belief that there is no such thing as a safe and effective vaccine. Look. I mean, we were lied to about everything. We relied to about natural immunity. We relied to about, you know, we were told again and again the vaccines would prevent transmission, they'd prevent infection. It wasn't true. They knew it from the start. Are you aware that another one of these new members, Dr. Levy wrote that, quote, evidence is mounting and indisputable that MRNA vaccines cause serious harm. including death, especially among young people? Yes or no? Are you aware that he said that? I wasn't aware he said it, but I think I agree with it. You agree with it? It's not true. It wasn't true when he said it. It is not true when you said. Let me ask you, when were you lying, sir, when you told this committee that you were not anti-I-Vax or when you told Americans that there's no safe and effective vaccine? Both things are true. Now, we should note health agencies and health experts around the world agree that vaccines are safe and effective at preventing the spread of disease and that they have saved countless lives over decades. Democrats came into this hearing, livid, demanding Robert F. Kennedy Jr. resign or be fired. And multiple Republicans on the committee, including two physicians, expressed their frustrations as well about Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s actions on vaccines since his confirmation. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned. The public has seen measles outbreaks, leadership in the National Institute of Health questioning the use of MRNA vaccines, the recently confirmed director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention fired. Americans don't know who to rely on. I would like to say this.

The results are predetermined. That isn't reform. It is sabotage. Today, Mr. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., outright calling Dr. Menares a liar. No, I did not say that to her. And I never had a private meeting with other witnesses to every meeting that we have. And all those witnesses will say, I never said that. So she's lying today to the American people in the Wall Street Journal. Yes, sir. Did you tell the head of the CDC that if she refused to sign off on your changes to the childhood vaccine schedule, that she had to resign? No, I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said no. So if you had an employee who told you they weren't trustworthy, would you ask them to resign, Senator? As somebody who advised executives on hiring strategies, number one, I would suggest in the interview, you ask them if they're truthful rather than four weeks after we took the time of the U.S. Senate to confirm the person just for the future nominee that we're going to have to consider. The bipartisan outrage on display there. Joining me now is senior national politics reporter Sahel Kapoor on Capitol Hill, White House correspondent Yomish Alcindor, and Dr. Irwin Redliner, adjunct senior research scholar at Columbia University and professor of pediatrics at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Thanks to all of you for being here. Sahel, let me start off with you on the hill. Boy, we just heard some fiery testimony, but I want to zero in on a couple of people here. Bill Cassidy and Senator Barrasso, these are two Republicans. They are both doctors, their frustration, their alarm on full display today, Sahel. What are the broader implications of that? Yeah, Kristen, Bill Cassidy's line of questioning was very notable, not only because he's a doctor, but also because he's the chairman of the separate help committee, and he's promised to conduct oversight of the firing and the exodus at the CDC. His line of questioning with the HHS secretary gives you a sense of how... unhappy he is with what's going on at HHS and the CDC. He started by demanding to know if President Trump deserves the Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed, to which Robert F. Kennedy Jr. immediately replied absolutely. And then Bill Cassidy said, then why did you say the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID itself? He showed testimonials, or rather read testimonials from ordinary people and from physicians he knows, saying that the mess at HHS is keeping vaccines away effectively from people. Now, after the hearing, Bill Cassidy was a little bit mum about exactly where this is going next. Take a listen to what he said. Did he assuage any of your concerns? Again, I'll let the exchange stand for itself. Should he resign? Again, I'll let my statement stand for itself. Do you regret your vote to confirm, Mr. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.? I feel like I should put it an answer on the piece of the paper. That presupposes a conclusion. We have to have a dispassionate understanding of what a good place, including interviewing the people from the CDC. Now,

Kristen Bill Cassidy is also walking a tightrope because, of course, he is running for re-election in the Ruby Red State of Louisiana. I found it fascinating that he was using the language of MAGA, the currency that MAGA trades in, which is strong support and alignment with President Trump to advance his own goals of supporting and protecting vaccines. You know, it's a really important point to put it against the backdrop of the perspective of the midterm, Sahel, because of course they are looming so large. On the flip side, you do have Democrats who also grilled Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in some of the most heated moments, but they, of course, are not the party in power. So is there any recourse that Democrats have in this moment other than having those sharp exchanges? Well, Democrats highlighted their intentions right at the outset with that joint statement that nearly every Democrat on this committee signed. before the hearing calling for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s resignation. So it was no mystery of where they were. But what Democrats have done since then and during the hearing a little bit is highlight the criticisms by Republicans, not just Bill Cassidy, but also Senator John Barrasso, which I thought was very important because he's the majority whip. He's the number two Republican, and he's a staunch ally of Trump. You rarely see him going after President Trump's nominees in this former fashion, also notable the fact that he's a doctor, also clearly hearing from folks at home about this, about, you know, how this is damaging trust and vaccine. So Senator Brasso is speaking out about this. Notable, Democrats are highlighting both them as well as Thom Tillis, the Republican who's not running for reelection, has no political concerns here. What they need to do is peel off enough Republicans here in order to make this a real problem, at which point the administration will no longer be able to simply say this is a democratic problem and ignore it. Well, just fascinating to watch all of that unfold today. Sahel, thank you for unpacking all of it for us. Himish, let me turn to you at the White House. I know you've been working your sources there. What are they telling you about President Trump's reaction to what the world witnessed today? Well, Christian, of course, after this incredible hearing, this hearing where, of course, we saw centers from both... sides of the aisle really grilling the health secretary. The big question was, well, does he still have the confidence of President Trump? I'm not getting a straight answer from that, but what I am hearing from the White House is essentially that he is someone that President Trump still feels good about his pick, whether or not his future is certain is a big question, I think, still. But I want to read to you part of a White House statement that was essentially supportive of Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. It said in part, today's hearing showed exactly why President Trump put Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in charge of HHS to fix this broken system. has overseen America's unprecedented chronic disease crisis. They went on to say, while Democrats played street theater and called for blindly throwing even more money at the problem, the Trump administration focused on using evidence-based gold-standard science to truly make America healthy again. Really interesting there that the White House is talking about what Democrats did, but really is not talking about the fact that there were Republican senators also questioning Senator Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or I should say Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s leadership at the health department. We also heard from other White House officials saying that Secretary...

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. looked prepared, that he was ready for this hearing. I think what's interesting still, though, is the fact that the president does not want to see and usually does not want to see these sort of spectacles where you have an administration official not looking like he's at his best, not looking like he's sort of grounded and knows what's really going on. Because, again, you had these Republicans who were grilling him about vaccines and science. And he didn't have sort of the clear answers. He gave some contradicting answers. So it's going to be really interesting to see how long President Trump sticks by. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and whether or not this gets in any sort of political trouble for him. Well, Yamish, to that point, I mean, one of President Trump's stated most proudest accomplishments was Operation Warped Speed getting a COVID vaccine. And today we heard Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. really flip-flop on how he viewed. the COVID vaccine and that work that was done in one moment saying, yes, he does deserve a Nobel Peace Prize for that, but another moment saying that no vaccines can be trusted. How do you think that plays at the White House? I think that that's the big question. And the White House isn't being clear about that. We know that President Trump has said that he is very proud of the vaccine development that happened under his watch. When, of course, in 2019 and 2020, when we saw this whole country looking for a vaccine to be developed, President Trump was very happy with the fact that the vaccine was developed and by the way took it himself. That being said, this White House isn't really being clear about whether or not the health secretary's statements. And frankly, his moves and his actions to act. all of these top scientists, whether or not that puts them in sort of a problematic situation for the future. So definitely something we're going to watch, Kristen. All right. Eamich Alson Doort, the White House. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Now let me turn to Dr. Red Leonard. Thank you so much for being here, Doctor. I want to begin by just getting your reaction to what we heard and what we saw today on Capitol Hill. Yeah, hi, Kristen. So, yeah, this was an extraordinary moment. I don't think any of us have ever seen anything like this before in a hearing, especially around something that is supposed to be objective and medical, like health care policy. But I think that President Trump actually made a big mistake. He was very attracted to the fact that he was going to get a... Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and his cabinet. And I think that's turned out to be an extraordinary mistake for him politically, as well as from public health point of view. And I think what Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to do, he's going to erode the success that Trump had with the development of the very, very successful MRNA vaccine that really put a stop to what could have been a lot more. fatalities from covid the other thing is that this hearing showed Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s true colors he was dishonest he was misrepresenting data he was just outright lying about conversations that he said happened which clearly did not happen and the thing that's really interesting to me in the beginning when Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was being confirmed i think a lot of republican

especially doctors in the Senate, held their nose and voted for confirmation. And it was the Democrats sounding a warning. But now this has become a bipartisan disaster where now both Republican and Democratic senators are wondering why they have allowed this destruction of the credibility of what had been the world's most influential, most successful. public health agency this is a disaster and i don't think the country or president trump for that matter can tolerate this i think we've crossed a line now he's going to have to go There's no question. Well, certainly reporters will be asking the White House that question repeatedly after today's hearings. I wonder if you can serve as a little bit of a fact check to some of what we heard, and I think it's important. We heard a lot about vaccines. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. making claims about the childhood vaccination schedule overstating the amount of vaccines that children get. Talked about a number in the dozens. I'm not going to repeat it. You are a pediatrician. Can you give us a reality check on the vaccines and why the schedule exists the way it does? Yeah, well, you know, every parent that has taken their child to a pediatrician, here's an explanation. Here are the things that we know have caused trouble or actually killed children in the past. These are the vaccines that will prevent those illnesses from whooping cough and polio to measles and German measles and hepatitis. And there's actually a very, very... clear directive about what vaccines are added to the schedules. And it goes through multiple reviews by legitimate scientists, not conspiracies. And one of the things that's happening now is parents are getting really confused and losing confidence in these life-saving vaccines, which is... just really a tragedy being fostered on us by Senator Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, among other things, by the way, has said that no vaccines have ever been tested properly. That is an outright lie. It's a misstatement of fact. He's also said terribly incorrect things about the MRNA vaccine, which is the technology that's going to help us prevent the next deadly pandemic possibility. And this is something he's completely stripped of funding now. So he's left America and its children and its families way, way more vulnerable. And this has got to, we got to put a stop to this. Dr. How do you restore trust in the CDC at this point? Where should parents go when they have questions?

They should go to their pediatrician. They should go to the website of the American Academy of Pediatrics. I think it's aAP.org, and they'll get legitimate information. But their pediatricians will know what the score is. And hopefully the pediatricians of our country and the family doctors and the nurse practitioners know the truth and will help parents. regain confidence in the life-saving vaccines that their kids need. But at the end of the day, we cannot have the world's most influential spokesperson, which is the head of HHS and the CDC, for that matter. We can have them falling into the hands of misinformation purveyors and conspiracies. And Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s got to get out of there. And that will allow. a regrouping, maybe a more legitimate doctor to run the show. All right. Dr. Red Lennar, thank you so much for bringing us your expertise, your perspective on a really important day. We appreciate it very much. Sure. Coming up, one of the Democratic senators who sparred with Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in today's hearing joins me next on where the future of health policy and leadership goes from here. Plus, it's the economy and tariffs and new lackluster job data. We're following multiple moving parts impacting President Trump's economic agenda, including his efforts to overhaul the Federal Reserve. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now.

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Welcome back. During that explosive hearing before the Senate Finance Committee, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was also pressed on the Trump administration's cuts to Medicaid, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. falsely claimed that there are no cuts being made to the program, despite the president's signature domestic agenda bill making significant cuts to Medicaid. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. also struggled to answer questions about what he's doing to keep health care costs down for seniors. Here's part of that exchange with Nevada Democratic Senator, Catherine Cortez Mastow. How much are Medicare Part D enrollees expected to pay for prescription drug coverage next year? I think that that is in debate right now. How much are Medicare Part B premiums expected to increase next year? I don't know. My concern is you can't answer the questions the very agency has oversight over these issues and controls the levers to lower costs for seniors. And you can't answer that simple question. Joining me now is Senator Catherine Cortez Mastow. Senator Cortez Mastow, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Oh, always happy to join you, Kristen. Thank you. Well, it is great to have you here on really a monumental day. I want to start off by just getting your reaction to what transpired at the hearing. You obviously are among the Democrats who were calling for Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s resignation prior to today's hearing. This was a heated hearing. You were among those who had very sharp questions for the secretary. What were your key takeaways? Yeah, no, first of all, Kirsten, thank you for doing this. And today was a perfect example of why these oversight hearings are important. Why the secretaries have to come before us to talk about what they know or don't know about the jobs that they are doing. It is clear from the hearing today, both from the questioning of the Democrats and the Republicans, that Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has no idea what the job entails as the Secretary of HHS. Not only that, what we saw here is because he lacks that knowledge, he's dangerous. Because the policies that he is actually approving or moving forward with are causing chaos in our health care system, which is impacting the lives of so many people who need access to health care. And it's increasing costs for so many, as I talked about at the hearing for seniors. Seniors are seeing increased costs to their Medicare, and he has no idea, one, that it's happening, or two, what to do about it. Even though, as the administrator and oversight of HHS, he does have levers to really look at administratively what he can do to help seniors. But he didn't even answer that question. So my takeaway is that he's dangerous, and he shouldn't be in this position, and that's why I asked for him to resign. To follow up on that point, Senator, you seemed very frustrated. that, as you said, he didn't have the information to answer the questions that you were posing to him. Was there a key moment for you that felt particularly problematic?

Yeah, there are a couple, actually, I will tell you. The first one was the fact that right now we as Democrats, and this is something I fought for in the Inflation Reduction Act, is to allow us to negotiate for prescription drugs for Medicare to lower those costs for seniors. And we started that process with the first 10 drugs. The next set of drugs that we were supposed to look at to really look at negotiation and lower those prices were some of these cancer drugs. that are high cost. One of them is this Ktruda drug that is out there that has been there since 2014 available, but it costs a family $175,000 to get. And Big Pharma has been making, what, $29 billion off of this drug. We should be putting that in the drug negotiation. tranche show we can lower those costs for families. Under the big beautiful bill that Donald Trump passed, they actually took those drugs out of the tranche and said, we're not going to negotiate those now. We're going to move those down the road where there's an exemption. We're not going to look at those now, which is a benefit to Big Pharma. But when I talked to Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about this happening and what he was going to do to address so many cancer patients that need access to that drug in an affordable way, he couldn't answer the question. He didn't even realize. One, I'm sure you didn't even realize that the price negotiation is within his authority as the administrator, but two, he wasn't even aware that there was an exemption for these cancer drugs. That's one example. of the many things he wasn't aware of what was happening with respect to health care in this country, that he has oversight over as the health care administrator. You know, Senator, it was also particularly notable to zero in on the interactions with your Republican colleagues. Senator Barrasso. who rarely breaks with President Trump, said he was, quote, deeply concerned by Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s leadership. And you have Bill Cassidy, who would not answer direct questions about whether he regrets confirming Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. Can you take us behind the scenes? Are you getting a sense that some of your Republican colleagues actually regret voting to confirm him? Well, I can tell you, Christian, exactly from the questioning today, you're spot on. Some of my Republican colleagues were asking him questions about the very policies he was making that disagree with science. I mean, literally, Bill Cassidy was asking him why he thinks that the COVID vaccine caused more deaths than the COVID itself, the disease, and questioning him on his. policies around vaccines because he has concerns that what Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is doing is actually causing more harm across this country with his policies and his conspiracy theories around vaccines. You see that happening with my Republican colleagues in the questioning, and rightfully so. The questioning that they were providing, but what was telling Christian was that Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. either was not answering the questions. He was doing a lot of rambling or he lied. He lied about

certain facts and data. And so it really, to me, it was a perfect example. If anybody watch it is this is not somebody who is a leader that governs an agency and knows how to lead an agency that you want calm, focused on the facts, how we ensure we're accessing health care in this country for everyone and lowering costs and making it affordable and make sure it's safe. There's many things that we can do. And he has the levers of the administrator outside of Congress. to be able to do things. But he doesn't even know about the authority that he has. That is dangerous. And you're right. That's what we see some of the Republican colleagues in the hearing today we're questioning him about. Well, we'll continue to track the fallout there. I do want to shift gears a bit and ask you about government funding. It runs out. I don't have to tell you this at the end of the month. Congress has to pass that spending bill. Let me ask you, Senator, what exactly do you want to see in the funding legislation? And are you willing to shut down the government to get it done? Well, right now, it's going to be up to the Republicans, Christian. They're in control, right? They're the ones that are going to dictate the next move, whether the government shuts down or not. And as you know, it starts in the House. And what I think all of us are looking for is to continue bipartisan negotiations around the appropriations work that we're required to do and to look to undo some of the harm that Washington Republicans have done to this country in the previous bill that they passed. So that's what I'm looking at. And I think it is about. making sure that we're working towards the benefit of this country and Americans and not harming them and getting our job done as appropriators. And that requires bipartisan work. But it's going to be really up to the Republicans in Washington right now, you know, they're in control. So they get to decide. how they're going to start off with this appropriations process. Well, and I guess the question is what a lot of folks want to know is how far are you and your fellow Democrats willing to go to try to get the priorities that you want. Of course, back in March, you along with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. voted for a key procedural vote, just to explain this to our viewers, basically pave the way for Republicans to be able to pass their stopgap spending bill. And you released a statement. You said at the time, Senator, quote, I'm outraged by the reckless actions of President Trump, Elon Musk, and Republicans in control of Congress. So I refuse to hand them a shutdown where they would have free reign to cause more chaos. and more harm. Is that how you see this battle today, effectively is a shutdown more harmful than the Trump administration's current policies?

Well, let's look at the current policies. They're already shutting things down. And they're already causing harm. Perfect example is one. We just had the oversight hearing with HHS and the policies from this administration, causing harm around health care in this country. And that's one example, the elimination of positions. So they're already deciding what kind of agencies they want to shut down what they think is important. That's not the role. That's the role of Congress. The role of Congress also is to be appropriators. And I do think it is important that we, and we've already passed some appropriations in the Senate, that we continue to work together and put back in those appropriations some of the harm that this administration has done by taking it out illegally, right? Through the Impoundment Act, I believe they are violating the impoundment Act. They don't have control of the purse strings. We do in Congress. That's our role. And so I do think there is a way for us through the appropriation process to make sure the funding stays there that we're not harming individuals. But again, as you well know, in Congress, control right now is with the Republicans, so they get to set the agenda. And they get to start the process for the appropriations and the House and any continuing resolution. I think we are all waiting to see what they do. I hope my goal here is that they continue down a path of bipartisanship where we have already worked in the Senate with some of these appropriate bills. Senator, just put a fine point on it. If you feel like they are not working in a bipartisan manner in a way that respects your priorities, the priorities of other Democrats, will you try to block any spending bill? Well, I don't know now until I'm not going to speculate, but I do want to see what comes forward. I think we are all looking to see whether they're working in a bipartisan way or not. And it goes back to what I've said. You know where I stand in my past and what I've. always willing to do is stand up for the American people and fight for them and fight against this administration. But I also think American people, they want us to get the job done. They want us to work together. So I'm hearing from some of my Republican colleagues now that they want bipartisanship. They want to work together through this appropriations process. And we're going to, I'm going to hope. See how it turns out at the end of the day. I'm hopeful that they're true to their word and their actions follow the words. All right. Senator Catherine Cortez-Mastow, thank you for joining us. It's going to be a long month, so please come back again soon. We look forward to an update. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Up next, it's the economy. We'll get the very latest on today's biggest developments as new data shows a dramatic slowdown in hiring. And the president's nominee for the Federal Reserve Board is grilled on Capitol Hill as well. You're watching Meet the Press now. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for teens.

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Welcome back. Turning now to the other major hearing on Capitol Hill today about the future of the U.S. economy as the Senate Banking Committee held a confirmation hearing for Stephen Moran, the president's pick to serve the Federal Reserve Board. And this hearing, lawmakers signaled their concern about the president's pressure campaign to undermine the independence of the central bank, according to critics. Moran, who has served as President Trump's economic advisor, committed to remaining independent, if confirmed, but refused to commit to leaving his current White House position. If you're confirmed, will you resign from the council? Thank you, Senator. I have received advice from counsel that what is required is an unpaid leave of absence from the Council of Economic Advisors. And so considering the term for which I'm being nominated is a little bit more than four months, that is what I will be taking. As long as that is the advice of counsel, I'll follow the law. Well, your independence has already been seriously compromised by your statement. You are going to be technically employee of the President of the United States that an independent member of the Board of the Federal Reserve? That's ridiculous. It comes as the payroll company, ADP, reported today that the private sector created just 54,000 new jobs last month. That's a sharp decline from the prior month. NBC News Business and Data Correspondent, Brian Chung joins me now. Brian, thanks so much for joining me. So let's dive in and start with Stephen Moran's testimony today. He said he would take an unpaid leave from the White House if he is confirmed. at the Fed. Talk about how usual that would be and does it potentially undermine his claims that he would remain independent? Yeah, Kristen, I've been watching the Federal Reserve for quite a while. I have not seen an arrangement like that before where you have someone who's technically on leave from a position at the White House, but nonetheless still nominally attached to the White House, serving in a role that's supposed to be at an independent agency. That does raise a lot of questions over how independent he would be. And even if during that term, he wasn't corresponding with the White House or talking with the president, who, by the way, has been very aggressively calling for substantially lower. interest rates. There is the question of whether or not he would make decisions to try to earn himself back the good favor of the president when that four-month tenure is over, and he returns to the White House in that role of the Council of Economic Advisers. So there have been a number of reactions just in the fallout to this hearing this morning that have said, maybe this is going to be a conflict of interest. Again, is that the legal counsel that he's received? Is that something that he could even legally do while he's at the Federal Reserve? These are all open questions to what is already an overarching

story of the Federal Reserve's independence, perhaps being undermined by the president's political will. Let's talk about that ADP report coming in below expectations. Lay out the bigger picture for us, Brian. Does that give us any indication of what tomorrow's BLS, the official jobs report will say? Yeah, Kristen, a lot of letters that we've just thrown at people there. ADP is the private payroll processor. In fact, a lot of people might notice on their own payrolls. They see that particular acronym. That refers to the private company that has a lot of insight, as you can understand, into the labor market. And whether or not people are getting paychecks at all, they take measurements of how employment looks in the economy. But this is not what is seen as the most holistic measure of what job gains look like in any given month. That comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the official government agency, of course, has been very much in public view after the firing of the former BLS chair after the last jobs report, which showed substantial downward revisions to previous reports. We are going to get the official jobs report from the BLS, which still has an acting commissioner who the president has not appointed. That report comes out tomorrow. And because the ADP number came in solo, there are some questions over whether or not tomorrow's number is going to be disappointing as well. Wall Street has expectations for about 75,000 jobs to have been created in the month of August. what they expect that report to show tomorrow. That wouldn't necessarily be recessionary, but it would be a slowdown from what we saw earlier this year and raises questions over whether or not this labor market could be slowing down, Kristen. All right, well, we'll all be watching and waiting very closely for those updated figures. Brian Chung, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And still to come an update from the White House on President Trump's phone call with world leaders as the U.S. and European allies look to reach a deal on security guarantees for Ukraine. Keep it here on Meet the Press Now. I'm gonna.

Welcome back. We want to turn now to the war in Ukraine. President Trump held a call today with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky and European leaders as the so-called coalition of the willing met today in Paris to discuss security guarantees for Ukraine. Administration official telling NBC News, President Trump urged Europe to stop buying Russian oil and increase economic pressure on China for helping fund Russia. NBC News White House correspondent Yomish Alessendor joins me now. Yamish, thank you for pulling double duty. We really appreciate it. So we know that, according to President Emmanuel Macron, 26 countries have pledged to deploy troops to protect Ukraine. Any commitment from the United States and any shift in what we are hearing from President Trump because he had been threatening sanctions if Vladimir Putin didn't seem serious about the peace process. And so far it doesn't seem like sanctions are on the table. That's right, Kristen. President Trump, clearly becoming increasingly angry, it seems, at Russia, or frustrated at least at Russia. We know that, as you said, that he urged European leaders to stop buying Russian oil, saying that the White House officials just told me that Russia makes about $1.1 billion a year sending oil and, I should say, selling oil to European countries. So the president really wants that to stop. When it comes to China, right now we don't have any words. from the White House that they're planning on not having saying having those tariffs be paused. The president is not sort of making any sort of statement on that now. What we do know, though, is that the president continues to say that he wants to see peace in Ukraine and wants Russia to somehow be held account to this. But we also know that the president said after that Alaska summit that if he was frustrated and felt like there wasn't enough progress, that he'd wash his hands altogether. So the farther we get away from that Alaska summit, I think the more and more we We walked toward that line where President Trump might just get frustrated. Yeah, you know, it's such an important point, Yomish. And I was speaking to one of my European sources who expressed frustration with the fact that, look, several weeks have passed. President Vladimir Putin is still not meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky. Clearly no indication in my interview with President Emmanuel Macron who said he was incredibly skeptical that President Vladimir Putin wanted peace. Can you paint the bigger picture for us here? The attacks have continued against Ukraine effectively. Is the peace process, has it come to a halt or is it waning? It's a good question. We know that President Trump has said he doesn't want boots on the ground, American boots on the ground in Ukraine. But he's also continued to leave the door open that we might have aerial support as America for this war and for whatever European sort of military action comes next. So the president is keeping that door open. But I can say to talking to White House officials that there is definitely growing concern that Russia is not going to move this any forward and that Ukraine isn't making the sort of concessions that President Trump wants to see. But I think when we go back to this idea that the White House is stressing that Russia makes $1.1 billion sending oil and selling oil to Europe. It really, in some ways, is showing you that President Trump is not only trying to pressure them militarily, but economically. And it's also interesting because at that Alaska summit and even leading up to that Alaska summit, the White House is saying, well, maybe there could be even economic sort of relations with Russia if this war comes to an end. But President Trump is essentially saying all that could be off the table. And he could at some point to say, look, Russia's going to do what they're going to do. Ukraine needs to figure this out.

be economic sanctions and do what we can. But at the end of the day, he continues to say that this isn't really a war that would have started with him and shouldn't be a war that he will continue to sort of be part of. All right. Yamish Alcindor, thank you for bringing us. The latest on all the angles coming out of the White House. We really appreciate it. Coming up after the break, the legal setbacks are piling up as the White House officially takes its fight over tariffs to the Supreme Court. And a federal judge rules that the administration unlawfully blocked billions of dollars in funding for Harvard. We're covering it all straight ahead. I'll meet the press now. Welcome back. The White House is once again clashing with the judiciary after recent court rulings threatened to derail some of the president's most high profile and controversial moves. Late yesterday, the administration appealed to the Supreme Court to preserve the president's sweeping tariff agenda after an appeals court ruled against them. Meanwhile, in Boston, a federal judge ruled the Trump administration's cuts to Harvard's research funding was unlawful. The Trump administration's also escalating its fight against Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. who's suing the administration challenging her ouster from the central bank's board. And now the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into Cook over allegations of mortgage fraud. This all comes as some federal judges are expressing their frustration with the Supreme Court's handling of cases tied to the president's agenda. Some of those judges telling my colleague Lawrence Hurley they want to see the high court and in particular Chief Justice John Roberts do more to defend the integrity of their work amid the president's harsh criticisms of the judiciary. Joining me now is the panel Nicholas Wu congressional reporter at Politico. Megan Hayes, former special assistant to President Biden and Sarah Chamber. President and CEO of the Republican Main Street Partnership. Thanks to all of you for being here. Really appreciate it. So, Nicholas, let's start with this clash between... President Trump in the courts, this is really coming to define his presidency in some ways as we see this president increasingly test the limits of executive power. Very much is. And in some ways, it feels like history. It's repeating itself. We're seeing the same sorts of legal fights over administrative procedure and whatnot that we saw during the first Trump administration. But the question for Democrats, really, through all this, is how they can communicate these sorts of court fights to their base. These things are drawn out. They take time. They might end up at the Supreme Court in a way. that they might not like in the end. And that's not something that could play necessarily well with a base that wants action now. Well, Megan, pick up on that point because I do think Democrats are trying to figure out what role they can play. Do they sit back and watch and wait for the courts to weigh in? Should they be out there?

you know, speaking out against some of these actions, what are you hearing strategically speaking Democrats are doing moving forward? I think Democrats are fighting on all fronts. They're fighting right when the action first comes. They're fighting when the court rulings come out. And then when these sort of... overturning of his actions come. I think they're showing that it's politicizing the court system. And I don't think that people like to see that overwhelmingly Democrats and independents do not like to see a politicalization of the courts. And I think that's really going to matter coming into the midterms because these independent voters are going to make up a huge difference in where people vote. So people who voted for Trump. for president may not be voting for him come, you know, he's not on the ballot. So they're not voting for him come the midterms. And when you see he disobeying the rule of law and the Congress and the courts are right behind him, they're not going to be happy with that. Sarah, what about that point? And what if President Trump prevails and then you have a Democratic president who takes office next? I mean, could that backfire? Right. What are Republicans saying about that? Well, the Republicans, as we know, President Trump signaled who was going to do this. As he said in his first term, he pushed it. He was reelected. I mean, no offense to Democrats, but he defeated her. So the American people are expecting this. We are not seeing in our polling that they're even concerned about this. They knew it was going to end up in the court system. It's going to end up in the Supreme Court. So. It's not that unusual. The Democrats are not making much hayway in the polling that we're seeing on this issue. Economy is a much bigger issue. Economy continues to be the top issue. Nicholas, we have to talk about this extraordinary hearing on Capitol Hill today. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. grilled repeatedly over his vaccine denialism. The fact that he believes that, and said today, he doesn't think that all vaccines or any vaccine is safe. and really struggled in some moments to answer basic questions. How many people died during COVID, for example? He couldn't even confirm that, yes, over a million people died. How do you think this hearing is playing? Well, we're seeing a lot of the frustration among Republican senators, many of whom seem to have had some sort of private assurances and agreements. What Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. prior to his confirmation really rolled out. I mean, this was a nomination that took a lot of floor time for Republicans to get through, a lot of political capital, and, you know, take the CDC director, for example. This was someone that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. ousted after, you know, roughly a month on the job, the very first time that this became a Senate-confirmed job. And so, like, for Republicans... senators who don't want to see the vote rocked necessarily that much, this is not what they want to be talking about. Yeah, I mean, Sarah, talk specifically about the Republican senators, Senator Barrasso.

Bill Cassidy, they are senators. They're also doctors. They are. And you rarely hear Senator Barrasso break in any way, shape, or form from the administration. So I found his words today to carry an immense amount of weight. What are you hearing inside Republican circles? Because the White House right now is still saying, look, the president has confidence in Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., but do you think he can last in this role? So the senators are getting very concerned. Polling is showing that, especially suburban women, which we all have to win next year in re-election, they're starting to get concerned. I mean, we've all probably been vaccinated. They want to vaccinate their kids. They have vaccinated their kids. It's like, where are we going with us? So that is becoming a problem. And, you know, Senator Casta, I agreed with him. The signature event that actually, frankly, should have won Trump a Nobel Prize, they're undercutting that. I mean, look at what he did for COVID. I mean, yes, we lost too many people. No question about that. But Operation Warp Speed opened back up the world. And now that's all being undercut by what's going on with Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. So it's interesting times. A lot of discussion amongst the Republicans. Do you think Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. survives this, Sarah? I don't know that yet. I think it's a little bit shaky, but we'll have to wait and see. So it's an open question, and yet you have Democrats almost universally calling for him to be fired or to step down. Megan, do you think that there's anything they can do to actually force that? Is it a matter of getting more Republicans to publicly speak out and say there's just... Too much confusion right now about what parents should believe. I think that's 100% right. And I think they did a lot of that during the hearing today. The arrogance that was coming from Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., just this pure disdain to be there, was so disrespectful to that body and so disrespectful to the process. Democrats and Republicans alike do not like to be disrespected in their own house in these hearings. And I think that really did not help him in his case. The fact that he didn't know some very basic facts. And also... People in D.C. are calling CVS and cannot get vaccines here. So there are people who are suffering real world consequences here that their constituents are going to start calling. So I think it's going to be really hard for the Republicans not to, you know, jump on board with Democrats on this one. You know what's so interesting, Nicholas, you heard the discussion there today about Operation Warp Speed. This was central to the first Trump administration. And we know that President Trump has touted that as one of his great success. during the first administration. In my conversation with officials at the White House, it's very complicated when they try to thread that needle. Politically speaking, does that create a problem for the president? I mean, like Sarah was saying, this is kind of the balancing act that they have to strike right now. This was kind of a signature achievement of his first term. But at the same time, now you have this very mixed messaging on vaccines that's coming out of the administration. And that is in part where this frustration among Republican members of Congress is coming from. They want unified messaging. They want to be all on the same page. This is someone who will be in the crosshairs as Democrats try to make health care a major issue in the midterm elections. And yet, you know, they're all over the place on this. Yes.

Sarah, you know, Bill Cassidy was very clear he wanted there to be oversight of Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. Do you think what we saw today is it? Or do you think he's going to call more hearings? I think they're going to call more hearings. And to be honest, I wish they'd call some hearings that are not publicized. I mean, it becomes a show when they're on TV. I mean, I just felt what it is. But it should be behind closed doors. And let's find out what's really going on. Bill Cassidy. He's a senator, he's also a doctor, and he has a lot of leeway on this, and the senators are going to follow him. So I think Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be closed-door hearings will take place. Megan, about 10 seconds left, or Democrats are going to really focus on this in the midterms? I don't think this will be the number one focus. They've got to focus on the economy. That's the only way that they're going to take back to House. Okay. All right, guys, great conversation. Thank you, Nicholas, Megan, and Sarah. We are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press now, but there is more news ahead on NBC News Now. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills first hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative roots. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Higher skills first. Learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.