Bill Kristol: MAGA's Grievance Culture

Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Views is Vapor Dunright. What does that mean? Well, we sweat the small stuff. So you have a smooth, consistent draw every time. That way you can focus on what matters, like getting back to your podcast. Learn more at views.com. That's vus e.com. Underage sale prohibited. Views is a vapor product. Website restricted to age 21 plus tobacco consumers. Copyright 2026 RJVC. Hello, welcome to the Bullwark podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. It is Monday, February 9th. We're on Super Bowl Monday. Slight Super Bowl hangover for everybody. Boring game. Good halftime show. Bill Crystal, as at least my take, that feels like the conventional wisdom. The president of the United States didn't agree. What was your... Did you even watch or were you kind of just doing an old BBC documentaries last night? Yeah, that's good. Thank you, Tim. No, we went over to one of our kids' houses and there are a couple of kids, a lot of grandchildren. We all watched the game. Not a great game, I'm just going to say. I know we're supposed to say in a sophisticated way that it was a great defensive struggle, but it was just a boring, a boring game. But I'm pro bad bunny because I'm... Of course, just ideologically, I mean, anti-ant-ad-Baddy is really where I am. I don't really understand or appreciate the music or the whole thing. So I want you to explain to me, I want you to justify my being anti- Anti-Bad Bunny and be actually... You didn't love the set design. I mean, I thought the set design was so cool, the dancing grass. That was good. And then he comes down and he's, you know, he's underneath. So the people in the stadium couldn't have seen him. And then he comes out and you're, you know, you're feeling like you're on a sugar plantation. And then, you know, you got the guys. playing dominant. You know, the whole set was... It was impressive. It was a cultural, you know, moment. And I thought that it was high energy. You know, it was kept my daughter engaged. You know, sometimes the stuff keeps kids bored. I saw somebody online said that it was like, it reminds me of the Sesame Street set. And I mean that in the best way possible. Sesame Street set was actually very sophisticated. You know, it was a reason it was successful for so many years. So, yeah, I thought it was really good. I played Nueva Yole for David French on Friday after I played them all the disgusting kid rock songs. And I thought that was good. I saw his reaction to that. That was good. Did you watch the kid rock one? I mean, that was. the best of America, Tim. I mean, none of this foreign language stuff, none of this, one of the most popular musicians in the world, let's go back and let's get kid rock lip syncing and, you know, other real highlights of American culture, you know? Yeah, a bunch of people I'd never heard of, you know, talking about how they can't tell their kids that the boy can't be a girl or else to get canceled. It's really high-octane stuff. Was Kelsey Grammer there doing a set? I don't know.

I didn't catch it. I'll let you know. Neither to Trump, by the way. I should say that the Mar-Lago TVs were on Bad Bunny, which was, I think, an affront to TPSA. And Trump said, this was his take was that the Bad Bunny set made no sense. It doesn't represent our standards of creativity or excellence. It's not up to the standards of... You know, the Trump University of the Trump Taco Bowl, a Trump Tower. I wasn't up to the standards of that. A lot of others jumped on with that. You know, my old friend Clay Travis, as would any other country in the world have their signature cultural event in a foreign language? A lot of countries are multilingual. So. Yeah, I think. I don't know. I do think that the Canadians do some French stuff and, you know, we could go down, we could go down the list. These guys just want to be upset about something. The other thing is like, even if you didn't like the halftime show, if it wasn't for you, not that big of a deal, really. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it signifies the end of, you know, the fall of Rome, a halftime show you don't like. I think some conservative friends, including back when I was in that world, they've been upset about Super Bowl halftime shows for like 30 years, I feel like. And, you know, they kept expecting it to be the immediate decline of America. And it didn't seem to have much effect. One way the other, honestly. A lot of people hated Kendrick's halftime show last year, too black. Yeah, good point. Yeah, I wonder why that is. I mean, it's just kind of an accident that they don't like the black stuff. And then the Latino guy who's praising Puerto Rican, you know, kind of culture and showing little bodega kind of scenes. Yeah. So it doesn't really speak to that, my guess. Yeah, they just want true American music, you know, like Paul McCartney, you know, The Who, Led Zeppelin, all the British brands that stole the blues music. And all the great classics from the olden days, Christmas songs and stuff that were written by immigrants from, you know, many-case Jews, actually. And Broadway, but of course, not just Jews. And, you know, all the authentic Americans like Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and all those guys. They're American-Americans, Tim, those people. They've been here for 200, 300 years, their ancestors. On the Mayflower. Can you imagine what American music would be like if it actually were only written by heritage? Is there a, by quote, heritage Americans? Would there be any American music? I mean. Yeah. I don't know. Tyler Childers would probably still exist. He's Appalachian. His record's pretty good. But it'd be slim pickings, I guess. I would tell you that much. This is all silliness. I feel like a related. controversy regarding what our Olympians are saying carries a little bit more actual weight. A lot of Olympians are being asked about what they think about American politics. Putting my cards on the table, I think that it's good for individuals to be able to express what they really think. I think it's telling that the Russian Olympians never seem to criticize their country. I don't think it's because everything's going so well over there. I think it's because there are limits.

to what the culture allows. So anyway, that's my preference. Others disagree. I want to listen to a couple of the freestyle skiers. So my people, you know, a couple of bros, you know, podheads talking about what they thought after their event. I feel heartbroken about what's happened in the United States when, you know, I'm pretty sure you're referencing ICE and some of the protests and things like that. I think that as a country, we need to focus on respecting everybody's rights and making sure that we're treating our citizens, as well as anybody with love and respect. And I hope that when people look at athletes compete in the Olympics, they realize that that's the America that we're trying to represent. It brings up mixed emotions to represent the U.S. right now, I think. It's a little hard. There's obviously a lot going on that I'm not the biggest fan of, and I think a lot of people aren't. If it aligns with my moral values, I feel like I'm representing it. Just because I'm wearing the flag doesn't mean I represent everything that's going on in the U.S. So yeah, I just kind of want to do it for my friends and my family and the people that support me getting here. Love and respect and just want to represent the elements of the country that I line with, my moral architecture. Seems fine. Yeah, it's very telling, isn't it that people get offended when someone says we should treat everyone with love and respect? It's like they understand that to be an attack on MAGA and an ICE, which it is not an attack exactly, but it is a rebuke to them. And they asked the question is they weren't going out being grandstanders, to be fair, right? And they're giving press. veils, whatever they do, press conferences over there, they asked the question. They gave honest, and I thought rather thoughtful and eloquent answers, really. I mean, they distinguished the country from the Trump administration, basically, so they weren't just saying America's a horrible place, which we have a horrible president. They went out of their way to do that. I sort of admire them. And as you say, the key point is, I mean, they could decline to answer the question, I suppose. Right. You don't see the Saudis or the Russians or the Iranians or Chinese doing a lot of this. And you know what? I'm glad the Americans are doing it. So no, I'm totally with you. And Maga World and Trump himself, the grievance culture, it is really insane, right? I mean, they just want to be offended by stuff. Yeah, they love to complain. It's so much at the heart of what they are. I guess I've sort of underestimated that I think maybe over the years. They're running the country. They're stealing tens of billions of dollars. They're beating up and killing. not to make light of it, you know, people who are protesting against them. Pardoning the people, their criminals that they're supportive of their cause. Totally. They're like, and they still are just full of grievance and resentment to some 23-year-old kid in whatever those bizarre sports that you like so much are with the footage. What are those things? Freestyle skiing. When did those become? I'm a little behind in the Olympic, the Winter Olympic sports stuff. Anyway, it's looking kind of fun. I watched about 10 minutes, though, of them like flipping around the year and stuff. They're talented.

It's impressive. And I do think the culture of that one is so funny because it's so much the opposite. I think some of at this point of like the slalom and all these very, you know, sportswear. You got to. cut a tenth of a second off and you gyro dynamically this and you tilt this thing. And these other guys are like just freelancing away. The soloskiers are like sleeping in, you know, oxygen deprivation tanks and, you know, like eating only skinless chicken breast and broccoli. And like these dudes are like getting off and having moon pies and hitting the bong. It is a cultural separation. In addition to the grievance mongering and the fact that they, these guys just like to complain. There is like the woke right element to this, what I like to call the patriotic correctness. I wasn't really a big fan of political correctness. That was something that we agreed with. I mean, some of it is okay. There's other elements of it went too far. I thought there were some critiques that were fine. They're doing all this shit that I hated about PC culture and that they claim to have hated with the patriotic greatness. I just want to read a couple of these people. Rob Schneider, the actor, he's got a book about free speech. And then he responded to those clips that has played saying, take off the flag and give up your citizenship. What happened to your book about free speech? Katie Miller, wife of heir, Stephen Miller. If you can't say you love America while competing on behalf of our nation, then you shouldn't be there. Megyn Kelly should be stripped of his ability to rep the USA and sent home. I mean, they want to force everybody to... stand in line and abide by their speech codes, the MAGA patriotic speech codes. That's what they want. And if you, if they don't do it, then they're going to cancel you or they want to cancel you. They might even try to denaturalize and deport you. And it's totally, it's totally insane like what they're doing. And it is a direct affront. It's like the good part of America. It's like, that is what America is. You're able to love the country and criticize the leaders. Like, that's great. That's a fundamental element of being an American. And these folks don't really seem to get that or don't care. You might think that that is what it means to be an American and that to say the opposite is actually what's un-American. You can't criticize dear leader. But that's just, that's yesterday, Tim. You got to get with the times here, you know. Criticizing dear leader, I mean, that is not, you can't do that. That's really disrespectful. And probably you should be at least stripped of your citizenship and maybe just don't know. thrown through detention. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I don't understand what time it is. We need authoritarianism to bring back the real American spirit. Yeah. We need authoritarianism to bring back the true American heritage. All right. Any other sports talk before we move on to issues of the day? Have you watched the Olympics? You know, I have not. There's a lot happening. I like the Olympics. Like back in college when I had a lot of free time.

And I was, you know, doing what some of the freestyle skiers were doing after they got off the mountain. I would sit around and watch luge and curling and gamble on it or whatever. And so I haven't had a ton of time. But I do enjoy. I enjoy the spectacle. I like the regalia. Yeah, I haven't watched watch. I did flip it on a couple of times. And it seemed to every time I did, I got, they were doing curling, which I can't say curling is really. Immediately, I don't want to criticize anyone else. It's not un-American to like it. People can do whatever they want. It's a free country. But I don't know, curling, really. So I did eight seconds of research. Like, why is curling a winter Olympic sport? And the answer is somehow it was in the first Olympics in 1924. I have no idea why. Then they kicked it out for 75 years, which made a reasonable judgment. But they somehow got it back in there in 1998, and now it's in there. And I'm sure I'm being unfair. And I'm sure it's very interesting and all that. Yeah. I think there's high drama at the end of the curling matches. And I think you can make anything interesting via gambling. That'd be one piece of advice. Let's go to what's happening actually in our government. The big debate of the week, I think, is going to be over this DHS funding bill. You know, they've kicked it the two weeks. It separated it out from the rest of the budget to avoid the government shutdown. You wrote about this in the newsletter this morning and basically made the case that the Democrats should offer to the Republicans that they'll separate out the useful parts of DHS, FEMA, any other elements that are that might be needed. then have a debate solely on the $10 billion funding for ICE and the $6 billion for Border Patrol, which obviously the Democrats would argue should not be appropriated. Now is basically your take. Did you expand on that? Yeah, no. I mean, they succeeded in separating out the DHS bill, the Homeland Security bill from the other appropriations bill. So the way to the next step of that would be to separate out the reasonable parts of DHS from the from ICE and Border Patrol. They should. Push that. I think I asked some Democrat late last week. Why aren't you pushing that? Well, we get more leverage for now. If they're all mixed together, I think they're overthinking it. That way they can just say, we're for FEMA. We're for, you know, whatever other stuff, Coast Guard, I guess. And a couple other things, TSA, but we're not for ICE and Border Patrol. You said quickly in passing, well, of course, the demos would be against funding that. But that is not their official position. Their official position, I think, unfortunately, really. is, you know, we have all these restrictions we're going to put out in, you know, and I'm for those restrictions. They would improve, I guess, ICE and Border Patrol. Pretty unenforceable. Trump administration is pretty good at ignoring congressional restrictions. They should defund it as much as possible. I mean, there's already all this funding in the stupid reconciliation bill from last year. So all you're doing is. kind of reducing the rate of growth of ICE in the Border Patrol. But that's important, actually. And there are other people who say, well, but this money's for slightly different things than the money in the reconciliation. But the less funding for ICE and Border Patrol, the better. That's my simple-minded view. They're doing bad things to immigrants. Obviously, they're doing bad things to Americans. They're intimidating citizens. They're part of the election, 2026 and 28.

election interference plan. And so the less funding, the better. So I think they should just focus a little more on the funding. I think that's really where the power is, you know. Stephen Miller was not stupid when he put all that money into the reconciliation bill for ICE and Border Patrol. So I'm a little more focused on the funding. I'm fine with the restrictions, but the restrictions are really less important than the funding, I think. So that's my only advice to the Democrats. Fight the funding. Yeah, sure. I like the argument of separating that just because it's like, then you can, then you're basically of a clear message. You're saying to the Republicans, it's like, you can, if you want to shut down this stuff because you want to fund ICE, you know, and CBP, that's okay. That's your call. But like, we support that. Edgar and I did a video in this. You can go watch it from Bullwark takes a couple left from last week. And Edgar, I think, has a slightly different view from you where he's like, take some Ws, you know? Like, let's try to make things meaningfully better for people. And if that means that. that we get them to take off their masks and they have to have new rules around warrants and some of these various things that they're talking about then like that's better than the status quo i struggled with that because i there's an element of that argument i agree with and i think at the end of the day that would be a win it would be not nothing but i also just like putting myself in the shoe which i will never be i appreciate the notes i get about this sometimes but i will never be a senator i have no interest if i were I think it'd be really hard for me to cast a vote that had any funding for them, you know, like even if you cut a deal on the other stuff. Yeah, so maybe let the others pass it then. But you know what? The Republicans aren't going to agree to this anyway, in my opinion, and Trump's not so to those stipulations they want if the Democrats hang tough on those. So I don't know that they really need to decide between these two strategies. They just need to say we're for all these things. The Republicans at some point say we can't accept them. The Democrats say, well, fine, then separate out the other stuff, fund the Coast Guard and FEMA. And we're just not going to fund. I mean, the good news is the... The CR runs out on Friday, right? So if there's no funding, there's no funding. So, you know, then they'll draw down some of the funding that's already in there. Unfortunately, from last year's, you know, five-year appropriation to fund stuff they want. But at least there'll be less money sloshing around ICE and Border Patrol world. And that's Katie Britt. You know, she was crying with the New York Times last week about what ICE and CBP has been doing. And so. Yeah. Maybe she will come along, you know? I don't know. You never know. You never know. Maybe those tears were authentic and she wants to put some policy backbone behind those feelings. We are on offense on this and we being the people that are opposed to this. The key, honestly, is to stay on offense. So the key is not to sort of say, we're not going to really. negotiating public here. We're going to have backroom discussions, Chuck Schumer, this, that, you know, and we'll work it all out here quietly. Negotiations work better, Tim, when they're not all public. They need to just hammer these people and say, why are you against, you know, the warrants? Why are you for the masks? And you defend that publicly. And Katie Britt, you said you were very upset. Where are you? You know, they really, I think, need to maximize this opportunity.

Related news, this is from the times over the weekend. We all knew this, but when you have reporting, it's good to just accentuate because, like, the news cycle moves so fast, people forget stuff, and it's just like, it's important to just have on the record. There were FBI agents that were preparing to do routine forensic analysis of the scene following Renee Goods killing. They received orders from political leadership to stop. Those orders came from senior leadership, including Kash Patel. Obviously, we also know that there is an ongoing cover-up of the whatever, you know, kangaroo investigation that they're looking into with regards to the pretty killing because they're not working with local officials. We've heard from Fry and Wals and others on that. So it is striking just in the sense of this is different, you know, like lying, spinning, trying to, you know, whitewash stuff. Like, that's been in the playbook for... Trump for sure, but other presidents in the past, like we're getting back to Hoover days where it's like, no, the head of the FBI is saying, no, we need to cover this up because it's going to make the president look at that. Yeah, totally. Maybe they should make that a condition, incidentally, of ICE funding as well. Independent investigations, yeah. Yeah, and I think they mentioned it, one of their ten points, but it's sort of vague, and they could explicitly address the two killings and say we want right now independent groups established with some people selected from outside of the administration to investigate the two killings that have happened. I mean, the Democrats have this slightly playing by the rules. attitude i've noticed this in conversations with a couple of them well these are the 10 conditions we developed last week we can't really add them now bill i mean that would sort of be like changing the you know changing the rules of the game halfway it's like ridiculous of course you can add more conditions we've just learned as you say from new reporting that there's a even worse cover-up going on than we thought and the same with the election interference which has come to the four in the last week that's not one of the conditions that ice wouldn't be used at the poll you know anywhere near any polls and so forth so I think that, yeah, the Dems just need to go on a very strong offense here. They're winning on this issue. I very much agree with Andrew. I mean, we shouldn't, you're right to point that out and to stress that. It's not as if the Dems are playing defense. They're only playing defense to the degree they're making themselves play defense. They need to stay on offense. And the numbers are pretty astonishing on ice, honestly. I mean, they, you know, for the issue that was the weakest one for the Democrats, immigration, oh my God, they can't talk about it. That was just a year ago, right? Trump's immigration, Trump's mass deportation policy and everything that it has brought with it. it, the violence, the violations of civil rights and so forth, the bigotry is really unpopular. Four months ago, the Democrats felt like they couldn't talk about this. I mean, I mentioned Katie Britt, but also down here in Louisiana, like John Robert F. Kennedy Jr., when you have the center of John Robert F. Kennedy Jr., like. out there talking about how the ice ice guys are getting a little out of control and they've got to dial it back i mean i think that tells you all you need to know speaking of the kind of vibe shift for democrats uh even here in louisiana uh well not here in louisiana you might youtube folks will notice i'm actually in a undisclosed hotel room right now everything's fine everything's fine but uh yeah i'm not i'm not home but in my home of louisiana chastity martinez one

Like kind of a landslide, basically, two to one, in a House special election. Now, this was, when we last week when we were talking, you were talking about Texas Senate, state Senate race, and you were right to point out this is Texas. And it's one of those things are like there were 100,000 votes in contrast to some of these other smaller specials that are, you know, more like school council elections. This was the latter. You know, I think it was like 8,000 votes to 5,000 or something like that. But I'm pretty... distinct win for Martinez in this district that went for Trump three times. The last time was Trump plus 13. It has shown some swingyishness for Louisiana, like that same district went for John Bell Edwards, conservative Democrat that was governor for a while. So, you know, that's the type of district that Democrats would do need to win if they're going to do well in the South. But I can't say that I've spent a ton of time in Iberville in Assumption Parish. But, you know, there's not a Whole Foods there, I guess, as I'm going to tell you. And it's between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. So there's sprawl. You're not like way out in the bayou or anything. But this is no worthy for a Democrat to win again. by such a significant margin, you know, caveat, about it being, you know, an off year and on a weekend and stuff. I mean, the pattern's gotten pretty convincing, I would just say, of these special elections. This one sounds like it's a little more of a, do you think, a non-college kind of white working class district as opposed to maybe outside Houston, which is a little more upper middle class, I would say, from last week. Yeah, and I think it's mixed. I don't want to, again, like you got a little bit of surprise. No, but that's, I only mentioned this because that is. I mean, Ron Brown-Brownstein, I had a podcast of yesterday on the bulwark on Sunday. I mean, the degree to which it's so important for Democrats to make some dent in the white working class vote, especially the white working class women, where there's been some unhappiness with Trump, both had economic grants for some of the working class voters, but also women, especially, I think, on some of the ICE stuff and that kind of thing. And also whether evangelicals has been the core of Trump's support, but in districts, Louisiana's a little exceptional that way, right? Because it's so Catholic and stuff. So maybe there's a little more give in Louisiana among some of these voters. I mean, who knows? It's a small elector, as you say. And I'm sure there were local issues and all that. But there's enough data now that. It feels kind of wavish here, and I will see if Democrats can really take advantage of it. But I think they have a real shot. Certainly at the House, they'll take it, I think, unless things go crazy. And they have a real shot at the senator, I think. Yeah, just quick Google here. Only 27% holding a bachelor's degree or higher in Iberville parish. This is not the district right, because there's other parts of the parish. Still, that is striking. But still, yeah, yeah. Like this is a lot of a non-college white. voting electorate. To your point about the wave, I got a couple texts after this election from folks saying, what are you going to do to get John Bell Edwards into this race? You know, I think that point relates to, I believe it was on this, the Monday show last week. I did a 15-minute rant about how frustrated I am with the Texas Senate race. I think that it's not so late, like it is, like some places you're past filing, but like it's still February.

There have been late entrants into races in the past, and I do think a continued full court press in these red states. You know, just because the more chances you got, the better your odds are that one of them ends up breaking or maybe a couple of them end up breaking, particularly in the Senate. So I don't know if you have any broader thoughts on that or in Texas in particular. No, totally agree both in states that haven't hit the filing deadline yet. Good candidates, if you're watching, get in. Either someone who's a proven candidate like Diana Bell Edwards or someone who would be an attractive candidate because he or she's a new face, but it's not too late. It's not to have some of these house raises either. Yeah, I very much agree with that. We're still looking for a candidate that feels credible here in Louisiana for that Senate race. But, you know, you've got right now, Bill Cassidy, this is the Bill Cassidy seat. And he's up, it just is enough to just make you want to vomit. He's up on TV here locally talking about how the Trump endorsed candidate let low is a Nancy Pelosi liberal. You know, and it's just like, okay. You know, I guess that's what that's where they're at. But I wouldn't tell anybody that you'd be a favorite if you'd get into a Senate race in Louisiana as a Democrat. But if there was going to be a time to do it, the first midterm or the Trump second term seems like the time. So anyway, no, you didn't have any deeper thoughts on, you don't want to get in trouble on the internet about the Tolerico Jasmine Crockett feud. I noticed you had your ritual five minutes ago. Your ritual, of course, I'd never run for the setup. But come to think of it, aren't you a Louisiana? Should I run for Louisiana? Resident, right? I think you're a natural, you know? This is a great point. I'm happy that you'd bring this up because in a lot of ways, some people have smarted at some of my critiques of Jasmine Crockett's campaign. In a lot of ways, I'm kind of Jasmine Crockett. And I don't think I should run for Senate in Louisiana for the same reasons that I don't know that she's offering the strongest foot. for the Democrats for a Texas race, right? Like, there are places, you know, had I never moved from Oakland, maybe, you know? George Conway's trying it out in New York. That's fine. But I don't think that like a full-time Trump shit poster is like the ideal person for Louisiana. I appreciate the thought. But we'll keep the recruitment train going. Sometimes the feedback against us that we're doing too much nitpicking. So you also want to raise up good examples of things that Democrats are doing. And Jon Ossoff gave a speech last week that I thought was like really, really tremendous. Well, actually, before I get into the Jon Ossoff's speech, I'm going to step this back because there's this broader discussion about the Harris 24 campaign. And you see this on the internet where like moderates are like, she lost because she was too liberal in the progressive types. Like she lost because she. Campaign too much, well, there's Cheney, and she was too moderate. And I think actually the fact that that debate is happening tells you a lot because kind of they're both right in a way. Like one of the weaknesses of the Harris campaign, which was, I think, a lot not her fault, a lot situational, was that like there was a group of kind of small, but like not nothing, a group of left.

Instead, this is the most corrupt administration of all time, and everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. So, look, I think that, A, just the direct effort to try to speak to working class voters is very important. And I thought this is good about Zohran Mamdani, and, like, the Democrats, like, you have to try. Like, saying the word affordability. affordability is not just like a magic amulet like all of a sudden people think you're the affordability candidate if you say affordability a lot right like we have to put some meat on the bone for people and show that you actually do care about so like framing the whole thing as like maga has betrayed working class voters is good the government is the Epstein class is ruling the country i think is very good i think rocana might have beaten Jon Ossoff to the punch on that but Good ideas can be shared broadly. The Epstein class is good. Getting rid of rural hospitals for tax break for Soros in Elon Musk. Just throwing a little Soros dig in there. I like. You know, it's just like a little signal to people, right? That it's like, I'm... I don't want tax breaks for my billionaires either. And then, you know, he gets into the foreign policy stuff where he kind of tries to basically hit Trump from the left on foreign policy, which is not my foreign policy, but I think is smart politics. And, you know, where he says, whatever, that we, we're instead of out there doing more for oil and Venezuela. And I just, I feel like you could listen to that and see, okay. If you are in the Atlanta suburbs and you don't like the way that Trump's corruption and norms, like, you listen to that, and you're like, yeah, I agree with this guy. If you're a working class person that, like, thought Trump was going to make things cheaper, you can imagine that person listening to that and saying, okay, yeah, I agree. I don't know if I'm on board for you yet, but you're making it, you're right. Trump isn't doing it. If you're a lefty Palestine person, you're like, oh, great. He's going after the, whatever, the blob. And I think it's authentic to him. I don't know. But to me, I just think it was a good model for like a kind of a combo of issues that doesn't really map exactly onto the never-ending Bernie versus Hillary debate in a way to kind of talk about stuff that will have some appeal. Oh, that's good. And I mean, it also fills where you and I have both been sort of. call it for a year, which is, you know, you can be a moderate on a lot of issues. I think Osloff is, he's not on the left wing of the Senate Democrats running in Georgia, for God sake, but also be aggressive and a fighter and take on Trump, but then also show that Trump voters got betrayed by Trump. So it kind of gets some of the, some of the Trump voters over. The economic populace in my vote, I do think is very important. I mean, it's not quite where I am probably. pure matter of policy, but on the other hand, it's okay. And some of it's right, incidentally. The moderates, you still want to sound like Bill Clinton on economics are just wrong. I mean, I just think they're out of it now at this point. And you got to sound more like Franklin Roosevelt. When you've, FDR saved the American middle class and saved in America, which produced a massive middle class in the 50s and 60s.

He attacked the economic royalists. And he attacked, you know, the Epstein class thing is very important, I think. And it also shows that, I mean, Epstein is actually a big issue. Yeah. Political class seems to keep wanting it to go away. But then it seems like the public's quite interested, you know? Yeah, I think it's impressive. It's impressive. And again, I'm not saying this to pick on Jasmine Crockett because I honestly, like some people. They want to hear like tangible examples of what I'm trying to say and critiques. And towards a blue state or a purplish state, excuse me. But particularly in red states, like you have to have a coherent message for people that voted for Trump. You have to have a frame. You have to have a message. And when those folks hear about you, there's got to be something about you that you've repeated over and over again that they've learned that would appeal to them. And maybe that is moderating on some cultural issue. border or cops or whatever or maybe it's this like maybe it's that i actually care about working class people trump doesn't trump's part of the upstein class and i'm going to give you like over and over again i'm going to keep banging that point that like i'm going to fight for working americans and give examples both of the types of people you're fighting for is owners really good at about that and give examples of the types of shit trump is doing that's helping You know, the elites, whether, you know, the tax breaks for Soros and Elon Musk example. So anyway, I just think like that is a model that is workable. You know, the fact that Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock are winning in Georgia is not an accident. Okay. Like neither of them are doing like going full resist. You know, like not, you know, they're not like waving the bloody shirts as much as I wish at times. But like. Wardock showed up in Minneapolis. You know, like they are demonstrating that they're going to fight while also recognizing that you're in Georgia and you've got to win over some people that voted for Brian Kemp at minimum, if not Donald Trump. I think having the concrete examples is important, the rural hospitals, you know, I mean, and be tying it to Trump. That is, there's stuff in, I guess, the bill that Trump heralded and that Republicans voted for and passed in Congress. That is going to damage, it is damaging. rural hospitals. So you really tie it, therefore, not just around Trump, but around the Republican Congress. And also some incumbents, it's a little different. He's not running against the incumbent. Since his challenger is going to be endorsed by Trump and will have phrased this bill, he can say, you want a Republican Congress, you're damaging rural hospitals. I mean, the causality, I think, is important. It's sort of part of your point about the coherence of the message. Patrick Schmidt, my young friend, who's running in Kansas just filed, I guess, last week. I mean, he says what's powerful, what he's begun to go talk to people is the soybeans are rotting in the silos or whatever, and it's due to Trump's tariff policy. It's not just, gee, it's a kind of bad year on the farm. So I think tying it to the particular, reasonably, tying it to a reasonable degree of specificity, to the particular policies of Trump and the particular votes of Republicans in Congress and either are going along with Trump and the tax bill or at least not challenging Trump on tariffs, I think that gives you the real umph to say. in Schwitz case, he's running against an incumbent. What's this guy doing? He's doing nothing to represent to protect Kansas as farmers against Trump, whom he loves and just votes mindlessly in favor of. So I think, yeah, I think the Democratic message is kind of coming together, don't you think, a little bit among these different candidates? Yeah.

I've been told that soybeans don't rot in the silos. Now, I don't know that. I'm sorry, yeah. I'm betraying my... On the west side of New York there, west side of New York, I mean, it's different out in Kansas, you know? You know, I like words that are evocative, you know? Rodding soybeans is evocative, okay? And so I like to say that, and I guess Bill has picked it up for me, but since it's spreading, I should say, I've been told on good authority that they don't rot. You get what we're trying to say, though. I'm sure Patrick Schmidt can use the more appropriate words. He knows about soybeans, yeah. Don't hold them responsible for my Upper West Side of Manhattan ignorance about soybeans. The last line of the bit that we played there was also interesting. He was supposed to drain the swamp, but it's the most corrupt administration of all time, and everybody knows it. I think that is also important. And everybody knows it. Like, his own people know it. They know it. They're in on it. Okay. They like it. Like, these guys are stealing money. and they know that they're stealing money and they like it. And frankly, they're pardoning other people, other friends of theirs that are also stealing money. To that point of everybody knows it, I did a video yesterday before the game about Andy McCarthy, your old friend from National Review, who I do want to just credit him. Straight up. He's doing a five-part series on the Trump corruption. And it's behind the paywall, national reviews. I thought it was important for me to bring it out from behind the paywall, give it to the people of YouTube, you know, because you want to give as many people to see that as possible. Again, I think this is telling. Obviously, National Review has limited influence. If National Review could sink Trump, they would have already sunk Trump with the against Trump magazine that they did 10 years ago. But. It's meaningful that people are feeling comfortable going out there to say that. And I think that those are ripples that can have impact when it comes to potentially accountability or at minimum, just political accountability for the Trump regime. Totally. And you don't know which string you've experienced this in politics. I know, Tim. I mean, you know, which string you pull is going to resonate the most or is going to have the most impact on why. Howard Lutnick and Epstein turning out to be like, best buddies and business partners and several different enterprises. And I think over... After he gave a compelling, like sociopathic lie. Like the type of lie that George Costanza lie that had all this detail, it's like I only went to his house the one time. I saw that there was a massage table instead of a kitchen table and it was so disgusting. I went with my wife. She told me never to talk to him again. Like he told like a very long... fake story about an imaginary one time that he met Epstein and was too grossed out to ever talk to him again. And yeah, now it turns out their business partners. And he's one of the major sources of corruption, I would believe, don't you think, in the Trump cabinet? So it sort of all fits together, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean, Steve Witkoff seems like is at the top of the list? Yeah. But no, the Latin kids are also making bank right now.

So they're their best year ever in 2025, the Howard Lutnick kids, you know, their best returns ever. That was just what a lucky break. No, it's Trump's restored meritocracy in America. It's good, you know what I mean? And it's really, I think you said that in the tweet about attacking the Super Bowl entertainment, you know, right? Yeah. All right, Bill Crystal, thank you so much, sir. We'll be seeing you back here next Monday. Everybody else will be back tomorrow for another edition of the show. We'll see you all then. Peace. The board podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.