What’s behind the “slopaganda” pushing Alberta separatism?

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Tonight. Imposter syndrome. Researchers have identified YouTube accounts starring people purporting to be Albertans making the case for separation. But it turns out those content creators have never set foot in Wild Rose Country. Trading places. Former Conservative Party leader Erin O'Toole tells us what he's bringing to the table as the Prime Minister convenes a new council on Canada-US economic relations.

Appetite for dissension. Donald Trump will attend the White House Correspondence dinner this week with a room full of journalists he's maligned for years. And our guest hopes her colleagues aren't mealy-mouthed at the meal. One track mind. In 1907, Tom Longboat made history as the first indigenous winner of the Boston Marathon. Now his great-great-grandson is trying to match his winning time. Beak brother is watching you. Bruce the parrot has gained the upper hand in his flock

despite having lost his upper beak. And because of what he's learned to do with his lower one. And bet your bottom feeder dollar. An endless shrimp promotion nearly sank, Red Lobster, but now a similar deal is back and restaurant staff could not be more seasick about it. As it happens, the Tuesday edition, radio that's always skeptical of grand prawn announcements.

He's a bearded baseball cap wearing man in his 40s, talking clearly and passionately into a mic about the merits of the Alberta separatist movement, a movement he's ostensibly a member of, Except according to the Canadian press, the man on screen is actually a paid American voice actor reading a script. A new report released today by the Media Ecosystem Observatory identifies 20 YouTube accounts peddling similar content, accounts that support Alberta Succession and even U.S. annexation, which have racked up almost 40 million views combined. The report refers to the channels as slopaganda and says their content could amount to a covert influence operation. Chris Ross is a senior analyst at the media ecosystem.

observatory. We reached him in Montreal. Chris, what were some of the biggest kind of red flags that came out for you when you started watching these videos touting Albertan independence? The main channel called the Canadian Reporter was what I came across first. And when I watched it, some red flags that popped out was things like the channel narrator would mispronounce city names. So, for example, he would say Regina instead of Regina. He slipped in things like he said Atlanta Prosperity Project instead of the Alberta Prosperity Project. And that kind of queued me towards the idea that, okay, maybe this guy's not from Alberta or Western Canada.

So some of them are clearly sort of badly thrown together, you know, AI voiceovers and stock imagery, that kind of thing. But some use actual people speaking into a mic, clearly wanting to think that they're real everyday Albertans. Do they pull it off? I don't think so. I think if you dig into it, you realize they don't. But perhaps for listeners that just catch one video and don't dig deeper, they might think that, oh, this is a person on the ground. in Alberta. So it depends. I think they are performing Alberta and decently. I suppose, like, the everyday consumer might not know that it's an inauthentic voice kind of exploiting their

politics for clicks and engagement. Right. Who are the people that we're seeing on the screen, really? So of the 20 channels we looked at, there's a mix of presenters. Some of them are humans, paid voice actors, but some are AI generated bodies and avatars. Some are just voiceovers. We're not really sure who is like the grand entity behind this channel network, but we know that they are coordinated with the materials they put out. Alberta suffragism is obviously a very big topic in the news this year because there might be a referendum in the fall. These channels take advantage of that and we don't know if their purpose is really just to generate clicks and earn money from the views or if there is a political

angle. So we looked at like how much grievance the videos include towards Canada, and we compared it to a set of like real Albertan separatists because this is a large and very real movement in Alberta. And like these channels dialed up that grievance by 60% compared to real Albertan separatist YouTube accounts. And they slip in framings of pro US annexation 10 to 12 times more often than real Albertan separatists do. Are there other examples of how it's kind of like dialed up compared to what legitimate Alberta separatists would say about grievances? So the most popular video on the most popular channel opens by saying that the deal for the 51st to 56 states, basically meaning like Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, other provinces

in Canada are locked in and that this political process is like in the pipeline. And then a minute later, it cites fake poll numbers that show, for example, 58% of Manitobans and 60-something percent of Albertans support secession and U.S. annexation statehood. So they're not just taking advantage of the politics. They're giving like very frequent and obvious lies. And when we talk about nearly 40 million views, I mean, that's astonishing. What is it about these videos that are getting so many clicks, presumably many them from Albertans? It is a lot of views. Last year our center researched. There was something call like the tenant media scandal where there's like a genuine Russian-funded influence campaign

to support influencers in the U.S. And the main YouTube channel there only got, I think, 15 million views. So 40 million is quite substantial. And I think that I think more people should be interested and these channels deserve more scrutiny in terms of the people behind it. Yeah. There's so many possible hot button issues these accounts could be focusing on. Why do you think they've chosen this one? It's a very popular topic in the news cycle. So the videos that these channels put out, they latch on to the news story of the day. And they kind of use that, talk about politics and characterize the politicians in it in these very kind of extreme polarized ways. So I think just because it's such a important topic right now, it's a prime material for clickbait and engagement farming.

There are, of course, many real albertans who support the separatist movement. How do you work to separate legitimate political speech from what you're calling sloppaganda? It's a good point. And I also think freedom of expression is very important to all of us as Canadians. The one thing that we did as researchers was try to distinguish these channels from authentic Albertans and authentic Alberton separatists or people that are for the independence movement. So we measured these channels against real separatists. And we saw that the patterns of word vocabulary variety use, it's quite different. different. We have this quadrant plot in our report that shows at the top left hand, all these

inauthentic channels. So they cluster together. And then in the bottom right, the other side, are the real Albertan channels. So you can see that they're very different in content and texture. So I would say that the Alberta independence movement is distinct from these channels. And I think this inauthentic network is really taking advantage of their movement to drive clicks and engagement on their channels. Are there any sort of telltale things that people should keep an eye out for us so they can tell the difference between them? I think you should like click through on the account that you're watching and see if it links to a real person or even a real organization. These channels that we studied are very ambiguous with their language. They say things that give

you us, give the impression that they're the news. You know, it's like the Canadian reporter. That's the largest channel. But if you click on it, there's no link to a website. There's no, uh, connection to legitimate organizations or organizations at all. It really seems like each of these accounts is an island. But if we didn't have the computational analysis that show the shared language, shared commenters, shared titles, there wouldn't be a way to connect these channels. Do you believe these accounts are violating YouTube's rules or Canadian law? I think that they are taking advantage of YouTube's rules. So it's difficult to say if it's like currently against the guidelines. I think it should be in terms of Canadian law, that might be outside my wheelhouse,

but I do think that there's clearly a governance gap right now and perhaps government and companies like YouTube and social media platforms more generally should think of ways to discourage this material. Chris, thanks so much for telling us about it. Thank you for your time and your interest. Chris Ross is a senior analyst at the Media Ecosystem Observatory, which is a collaboration between McGill University and the University of Toronto. We reached him in Montreal.

These are not normal times, and this cannot be business as usual. That's the contention of an open letter signed by more than 300 prominent former journalists, including the likes of Dan Rather, Sam Donaldson, and Anne Curry. They're talking about an event happening on Saturday night, when reporters and politicians will gather at the annual White House correspondence dinner. In normal times, business as usual means a good nature to roast with a comedian host and the American president trading barbs.

But business as usual is not Donald Trump's brand. For years now, the president has boycotted the event altogether, even though it looms large in his own mythos. In 2011, then-President Barack Obama used the event to mock Mr. Trump, who was attending as then host of the reality TV show, The Apprentice. Donald Trump is here tonight.

All kidding aside, obviously we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience. For example, in an episode of Celebrity Apprentice at the Steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from Omaha Steaks. And there was a lot of blame to go around, but you, Mr. Trump recognized that the real problem was, as a lack of leadership. And so ultimately you didn't blame Little John or meatloaf. You fired Gary Busey. And these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night. Well, in a surprise turn of events,

President Trump has accepted the invitation to this year's dinner. That's where that open letter comes in. Its signatories are calling on the Correspondents Association to use the occasion to, quote, forcefully demonstrate opposition to President Trump's efforts to trample freedom of the press. unquote. Lisa Stark is a former ABC News correspondent and one of the organizers of the letter. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

Lisa, what would a forceful demonstration of opposition to the president look like exactly? Well, we know that some people are planning on wearing like little pocket squares or pins, you know, that have the words of the First Amendment sort of as individual acts. But we think what really needs to happen is that the White House Correspondents Association needs to stand up at the podium with the president sitting right there by their side on the dais and basically talk about how important the first amendment is talk about the fact that some officials are trying to undermine the first amendment and then talk about the fact that they will fight every way they can to make sure those efforts do not succeed we're even asking them

if they want to have everyone stand up and make a toast to that effect So we want a full-throated, not just defense of the First Amendment, but sort of a call to action that they will fight any attempt by any official to try to undermine freedom of the press. We reach out to the White House Correspondence Association for comment and we didn't hear back. Have you heard anything from them? We have not. Obviously, they have our petition. I'm sure they've seen a lot of the reports. we have heard from someone that they may be considering some sort of action. If they do, that would be fabulous, but I have no confirmation of that. And they have not reached out to us directly.

When the president boycotted the event back in 2017, Michelle Dina the New Yorker wrote, and this is a quote, his decision to skip seemed like a petulant power play. Now he's going and being condemned. Is there a degree to which Donald Trump's kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't here? Well, you know, it's interesting because he said he's going because he was asked very nicely and that the press now agrees he's the greatest president in the history of our country. So that's why he's accepted this invitation according to the president. What I think really is the issue here, not whether he gets criticized for going or not going,

the issue is that this is an evening that is supposed to celebrate the First Amendment, freedom of the press, fabulous work by journalists. And it will do all that in the presence of a man and of an administration, really, who is doing everything in their power to undermine that right. We understand why he was invited. I think the White House Correspondent Association really didn't have a choice. But whether to invite him, that's tradition. Maybe they thought he would turn it down again. But I think the problem is these are not normal times. and we think that having him at that dinner without speaking out about what is truly going on is, I don't want to call it a farce, but it just doesn't make sense to us.

Are there specific differences between where we are now and where we were in 2017 with respect to the First Amendment? I think the difference now is the whole administration is engaged in this effort. I think President Trump and perhaps some of his press secretaries were engaged in this effort during the first term. Now we see this is sort of the rules of the road for this administration to demean members of the press, to use what I consider to be quite obnoxious language against members of the press, and to try to so mistrust about what is being reported if they don't like what's being said. So I think this has ratcheted up enormously, and there is a difference than during his first term. Some outlets like HuffPost have said they're simply going to boycott the dinner altogether.

I understand you're not going. Why not take that approach, given everything you're saying? Well, what's interesting is the Correspondence Association says there have people begging for tickets. You know, it's going to be quite the event, right? It's going to be a show. I believe the White House Press Secretary has promised it's going to be a really, fun evening. So I think that we let me just explain one thing. Our petition is not signed by any current journalist. We don't feel that they're in a position to do so. We didn't ask them to do

so. This is signed by former journalists kind of saying to our colleagues in the trenches, we've got your back. We know what you're putting up with. And we can say what you can't say. So in some way, they're in the same position. Some of them probably feel they can't skip the dinner. their network has bought all these tables. They've invited someone who they depend on for their reporting, and they're going to go. But some people aren't boycotting the dinner. So I think that people have to make an individual choice. And as you say, half-posts isn't going.

I know that a number of journalists, Don Lemon, for example, has said he's not going. So some people are definitely making that choice. You were there at the White House Correspondence dinner in 2011 when President Obama made the those comments that we played earlier about Donald Trump. Legend has it. That's the moment he decided he wanted to become president. What do you make of that mythology? Well, I was there at that dinner, and I do remember the joke, and I remember that Donald

Trump wasn't happy about the joke. I think Donald Trump has long harbored these ambitions, and perhaps this might have tipped it a bit into the yes column. I don't believe that that was the only thing that convinced him to run for president. Mr. Trump has reportedly hired joke writers to help him with his speech, and he posted on social media that he will, quote, work to make it the greatest, hottest and most spectacular dinner of any kind ever, end quote, and that's all in caps, naturally. What do you think we'll actually see from the president on stage this Saturday night? Well, one thing I'm interested in seeing is how long he talks for, quite frankly, and whether he sticks to the script, because, you know, he's known for speaking quite, quite, and quite lengthy speeches and not sticking to script. But my guess is he'll zing some members of Congress.

I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Biden gets mentioned somehow. He'll probably zing the press at some level. And the question is, if you're sitting in that audience, do you laugh at those jokes? I mean, if he says something particularly offensive about the press, are you going to sit there and laugh, even if it's a good joke, quote, unquote? I think it's going to be a very uncomfortable dinner. Lisa, thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. Lisa Stark is a former ABC News correspondent. She's in Washington, D.C.

A Kia is a kind of car, but try not to think about that right now. The kind of Kia that I'm talking about, the kind spelled with an E, is way better, although admittedly has a lot less trunk space. This Kia is an alpine parrot native to New Zealand. It's known for its green feathers with a fetching flash of old. orange on the underwing for its playful nature and, like most parrots, for having a beak. Except for one Kia, a Kia named Bruce, who lost his entire upper beak as a young parrot. At the time, experts feared that he would not survive. That's how he wound up living at the Willow Bank Wildlife Reserve in Christchurch,

where researchers have been able to track his progress, which has been remarkable. And now a new study has confirmed something even more remarkable about Bruce. Alex Taylor is the director of the Animal Minds Lab at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and he's a co-author of a new paper on Bruce, published in the journal Current Biology. We reached him in Barcelona. Alex, before we reveal your latest finding, how long have you known, Bruce? I've known Bruce for around 10 years or so. So when we started working at Willa Bank, he was already there. I think he'd been caught in the trap a couple of years before.

And, yeah, we got to know him pretty well since then. I understand Kia's have some pretty big personalities. Is that true in your experience? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they really stand out as a bird species just in terms of how I'm a mischievous and playful they can be. And some of them in particular can be, yeah, they can be quite a handful. You know, you have to watch your shoelaces. You have to watch your pens and your cameras. And when you're in the Avery with them, they're really curious about anything new. I understand a group of Kiyas is called a circus of Kiyas. So I guess that kind of tells us something right there. Yeah, yeah, we were, I kind of forgotten that.

and the lead author on this Alex Gravum kind of reminded me as we were writing the paper. And it was, yeah, it's so apt, you know, particularly given the, you know, the defining we have and what we see in their behavior that, yeah, they really do love to play. So Bruce was already scientifically significant even before this new research. How did he manage that? Yeah, so there was some work done by my former PhD student, Dr. Amalia Bastos. So we were actually trying to assess the key as intelligence. And during that work, Amalia kind of spotted that Bruce appeared to be picking up little pebbles and doing something with him. It's quite hard to see exactly what he was doing.

So we were quite curious. And so we started kind of observing him and we discovered that he'd actually innovated stone tool use to preem himself. So because he's missing the entire top of his entire top beak, essentially he is. it's really hard for him to clean his feathers. So instead, what he had done is hold the stone between his tongue and his lower beak and kind of use that to prine away. And we did some follow-up studies to see how selective he was in the materials and these kind of things. And yeah, the results came in really nicely that he was innovating for self-care. And now Bruce has distinguished himself again.

What did you and your colleagues find out about Bruce this time? Yeah, I mean, this was another finding where we were. kind of looking at something a bit different. We were interested in the stress levels and the group dynamics in the in the circus. And what kind of popped out was that Bruce was not only the least stress, but also he was the most dominant bird in the in the Avery. It was the alpha male.

And so this really took us by surprise because always, you know, when you think about an animal having a disability, the first thing that goes through your mind is kind of are they are they coping with that disability, not are they kind of like bribing with it and and, you know, doing better than expected. So obviously we're very curious then to know, you know, why. How is the, you know, Bruce is the only disabled cure in the group? How is he got the lowest stress? How is he the alpha male?

So we then had a series of observations of his behavior over kind of a few months after that and discovered that he'd invented this jousting technique. So essentially... Jousting? Yeah, jousting. Yeah. So he can't, because he's got the lower, the lower beak is kind of sticking out straightforward.

And so Bruce can actually run the other keir with a bit of momentum and give them a pretty solid jab. And that kind of is something the other keir kind of really struggle. It appears to compete with. So, you know, their beaks are curved around so they can peck down, but they can't, they can't come on each other with a lot of momentum. Whereas Bruce suddenly, suddenly can. And so, yeah, we were particularly surprised to see, you know, he's innovated this new behavior and then, you know, really leveraged it to become the, you know, the alpha in the group. How surprised were you to discover this? Yeah, well, very.

I mean, so as I say, we really weren't looking for this as a result. And, you know, it's, it's really rare to find disabled animals that have alpha status. So essentially, like, there's a few examples in primates in the literature. but this is all about kind of forming alliances with other individuals. But Bruce appears to actually have been able to, yeah, do it by himself. But we didn't see any alliances. It was simply Bruce and he was able to, you know, not only, you know, have dominance over the other Qion fights,

but he was able to kind of monopolize food for long periods. And also we discovered that the lowest ranking males were actually preening, well, it's called Alloprene. So they were preening him. Essentially, they were kind of cleaning. his lower beak. So for him to clean the lower beak. So essentially they would come along

and they would help him with that. So it's kind of, you know, a little bit of a form of kissing the ring. Essentially he's, yeah, he's kind of getting getting some serious benefits for this new invention of his. This finding kind of shifts how you might see an animal with an injury or a disability of some kind. How do you think it might inform research in the future?

I think it's really interesting. I think this is like a really overlooked area. You know, as I said, your first thought normally with an animal with a disability is like, you know, are they doing well enough? It's not really to kind of go and look to see if they're actually, you know, creating new behaviors, if they're actually doing better than other individuals in the group. And, you know, we weren't looking for that either. We were really just trying to map out what was going on in the group. But as it turns out, you know, there might well be lots of other animals out there that have, you know, come up with, you know, interest. interesting innovations, interesting ways of dealing with their disabilities

that mean that they're not only doing as well as the other able-bodied individuals in their group, but they're actually doing better, which is a really interesting thing to be looking into next. Super interesting research. Thanks so much for telling us about it. Thanks so much for your time. Alex Taylor is the co-author of a new paper about Bruce the Parrot, published yesterday. He's in Barcelona.

Sweet, spicy, savory. Red Lobster's endless shrimp and soon. Sorry, can we just stop the tape? Can we rewind and computer enhance? Red Lobster's endless shrimp and soon. Biggiear's largest. Red Lobster's endless shrimp and soon. Red Lobster's endless shrimp and soon.

Red Lobster's endless. shrimp ends soon. One of the paradoxes of the disastrously popular ultimate endless shrimp promotion, even endless shrimp must end. At some point, you reach some insurmountable obstacle, whether it be the unforgivable limitations of your stupid and adequate human stomach, the restricted shrimp storage space in any given restaurant, or ultimately the finite number of shrimp on planet Earth. But for Red Lobster, the problem was more immediate. The ultimate Endless Shrimp deal meant too many people spent too little money to eat too many shrimp. Red Lobster lost $76 million in 2023.

And 11 million of that was because customers were just inhaling shrimp like whales inhale krill. In 2024, the chain filed for bankruptcy and closed 130 restaurants. It's still not on solid financial footing. Nevertheless, the CEO has just announced that endless shrimp is back with all kinds of conditions. This time it costs more. It's only for a limited time, and you have to eat at the restaurant. But it's still good news for anyone who's interested in actually feeling their cholesterol level spike in real time, but it's terrible news for staff because customers want all

the shrimp and they will attack anything that gets in their way. As former Red Lobster server, James Berkey told Neil in 2024. So once Red Lobster realized that they were actually losing some money on this, they started putting very strict guidelines around it. And so people got really annoyed, and it would start conflict between, like, servers and the guests sitting there. And, you know, some people would feel really entitled about it,

which, I mean, I get it because they're at a restaurant, but how many plates of endless shrimp do you think you've delivered in your time? Like over 500. Like, maybe, I would say even close to 1,000. like the most I've ever had on one night which has been like 15 but there would be nights where all my tables would get endless shrimp and I've been there three years so I've seen it all and when you say 15 rounds of shrimp that's that's one person ordered that yeah one single person how do you feel about shrimp now I mean like I've always liked shrimp so like I'll still eat it but like obviously

you know, there's going to be some like emotional thoughts about it when I eat it now. Former Red Lobster server James Berkey talking to Neil in 2024. We're going to take a short break now. When we return, former conservative party leader Aaron O'Toole tells us what he's. hoping to contribute to the Prime Minister's new Council on U.S.-Canada economic relations and what he hopes the Council can do for Canada's economic future. Stay tuned. I'm Chris Howden. And I'm Nora Young.

Hi, this is Elise Huve from TED Talks Daily, and this episode is brought to you by Ambetter Health. For many employers and brokers, group health insurance means unpredictable costs and plans that try to fit everyone but end up fitting no one. A model called ICRA is changing that. Employers set a fixed contribution. Employees pick the health plan that works for them, their family, their doctors, their budget. Predictable for the business, personal for the people. That's a better kind of coverage. Get coverage you control. Find out if an ICRA is right for you at ambetterhealth.com. I am an actor, fresh out of theater school with big dreams and an even bigger drug habit. But things are pretty good. That is until my best friend is set up on a date with David Lee Roth.

Yeah, from Van Halen. If you know, you know. From CBC's personally, this is Discount Dave and the Fix. The truish story about how a fake rock star led me to a real trial that held up a mirror to me. And okay, let's just say that not everyone in this story is who you think they are personally, discount Dave and the Fix. Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Mark Carney has a big problem to solve, so he's assembled a big group to help him solve it.

Today, the Prime Minister named the members of a new advisory committee on Canada-US economic relations. It will replace a committee created by his predecessor, Justin Trudeau. Some of the members are the same, but there are a lot of new faces at the table, including representatives from various industry groups, from dairy, to steel, to fertilizer, and some new conservative voices. The committee will hold its first meeting on Monday. Mr. Carney says it will serve as a, quote,

forum for expertise and strategy on all aspects of the Canada-U.S. economic relationship, unquote. And as a review of the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement approaches, that relationship is, as it's been since Donald Trump took over again, a major concern. Former Conservative Party leader Aaron O'Toole is one of the new members of the committee. We reached him in Echaloole. Erin O'Toole, when you walk into your first committee meeting on Monday, what will be top of mind for you? Getting a good deal for Canada.

And I think that's why everyone named to this committee will be coming in with their perspectives from across Canada, across public and private sectors, to make sure that we provide input that helps the government stand up for our economic interests, our security interests. The U.S. relationship is key, but they've changed their approach. And we have to adapt to that, but we also have to be more self-reliant, diversify at the same time. So I'm looking forward to the first meeting. There's bipartisan representation on this list of committee members. You and former Conservative Party cabinet minister Lisa Raid are both on it. What does that signal to you?

It signals a very substantive approach that this prime minister is taking to it. I found in the past that there was a lot of symbolism. in the negotiations under Mr. Trudeau. And I didn't feel there was a true team Canada. So when I said that I would want to be able to speak a little bit about this role, I would want to be able to give a heads up to Pierre Poilievre and Michael Chong from my old political caucus, from my days as an MP. I didn't want to be used as a wedge. I wanted to be used as a Canadian that cares deeply for their country.

And I think that's why everyone on that list is dedicating some. some time. And I was assured that this was not symbolic. It was substantive. They were fine with all the points that I raised when I was asked. So I look forward to contributing at some points pushing the government on things I think might be the wrong direction. But in others, where I think the prime minister is right, I will support that and try and put the country first. There's also new representation from various industries, including some that have been hit hard by U.S. tariffs. What do you hope to hear from them? I thought that was very strategic, actually.

the use of sanctions, talk about withdrawing from multilateral security arrangements like NATO. We have to live in the real world. And the real world is we've been unfairly tariffed. And so we prepare for that new world, the rupture, as per Mr. Carney's speech in Davos, while also trying to restore a professional and mature relationship with the United States. So I hope we can get back to that. But if not, we will stand up for our interests and come up with diversification on other measures to make sure that Canadians are provided for.

What strategy do you think Canada should take in response to the U.S. shift? I think we have to find areas of common cause. And I do think we have to have a strong and resolute position. But common cause could really be found in the defense industry or auto industry. The U.S. needs a focus on shipbuilding. While we've been building ships and have some of the most modern shipyards in North America right now, in Halifax, in Vancouver, in Levy, Quebec, we have things that they need, energy and resources in particular. And I think we have to make the case for that better.

That's something that Pierre Poilievre has also been raising. Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre has. has been critical of Mark Carney's performance when it comes to US-Canada trade relations. Here's some of what he said in response to today's announcement. Nobody knows Mark Carney's plan, probably not even him. He hasn't even told us whether he wants to renew UFMC. And if he doesn't, okay, tell us how he's going to replace

the $600 billion of exports. Tell the 2.6 million Canadians who rely on trade with the U.S. where their jobs are going to come from. So what do you make of Mr. Pierre Poilievre's claim that the Prime Minister hasn't been clear about his strategy? Well, I think Mr. Pierre Poilievre has a job to do. In our democracy, he has to hold the Prime Minister to account. He has to demand a resolution of the tariff situation, which has really hurt Canadian manufacturers.

I think the one challenge the Prime Minister will face, and I say this respectfully, is he set expectations quite high in the election. And I think a lot of Canadians see his international experience and his business experience as being good for negotiations. But as I know in politics, sometimes when you set expectations high, you have to hit the home runs or at least the doubles to live up to that. So I do think the prime minister has to push forward with some resolution, get some projects done. U.S. trade representative Jameson Greer met with Mexican President Claudia Claudia Sheinbaum yesterday, and just a few weeks ago, Mr. Greer said Canada was falling behind Mexico in the effort to resolve trade issues. How concerning is that to you as a new member of this committee?

Not at all, actually. I saw this a little bit the last time. The Americans do like to isolate the two parties and play Mexico off of Canada. Whatever pace the U.S.-Mexican talks take, great. We're going to put our best position forward. As I said, I think we're the only partner in the world that partners both on trade and on security and defense. I think that's something we have to use more strategically this time. So the Mexicans will do what they do. Canada will put forward our best position. I know that. We have to be strategic and have strategic patience for this process. Thanks so much for your insights on this. Thank you. as a former leader of the Conservative Party and a newly appointed member of Mark Carney's Trade Advisory Council, we reached him in Khalawite.

Following in someone's footsteps is one thing. Running in them is a whole other challenge, but that's what Christian Jameson is trying to do. Mr. Jameson is the great-great-grandson of Tom Longboat. a residential school survivor and soldier who in 1907 became the first indigenous winner of the Boston Marathon, with a time of two hours, 24 minutes, and 24 seconds. Mr. Jameson grew up on the six nations of the Grand River Reserve, and he's trying to carry on that legacy. He wants to match Mr. Longboat's time. And yesterday, he came closer than ever before with a personal best at the Boston Marathon.

We reached the 24-year-old runner in Niagara Falls, Ontario. Christian, how are you feeling today? I'm feeling really good. I'm still kind of riding the excitement from yesterday. Yeah, I bet. Of course, you know, my legs are very, very sore. And yesterday was just such a great date. How did it feel to cross the finish line?

So honestly, crossing that finish line, it was a mix of emotions. Every day, every run you're on, you're visualizing, you know, the race, how it's going to feel, how it's going to go. and so it was just very special and it was just a full circle moment. I bet. How much were you thinking of Tom while you were running? Yeah, there were definitely parts of the race where, you know, Tom was used to, you know, fuel me, keep me going. You know, as I was going up those hills, I just imagine, you know, Tom in front of me running

and me trying to do whatever it takes to hang on. And it just gave me extra confidence running in Boston. It really did give me confidence knowing that, that a party of that lineage is living out in modern day through me. How much did you hear about Tom Longboat growing up? I don't recall a whole lot being spoken about Tom. You know, it tends to be with kids. You know, you hear one thing in one ear and it goes out the other.

And so it could possibly be that, you know, I was, you know, told many great things about him. And as I got older, I kind of, you know, began to dive down this rabbit hole of who he was as a runner, but also as a person and also as just, you know, a Canadian. Ever since then, you know, he's inspired me to just continue to run and to pursue something great. Are there any things in particular about him and his legacy that stick with you? Well, one of the things that really does stick with me is just his character.

And what I mean by that is his ability to stay true to himself and to do what he felt like was the right thing to. to do. And as I was doing research, I read that he was often criticized for how he would train for races. And what that was is hard running sessions followed by very easy running or very easy, you know, just walking, recovery, or sometimes even taking days off. And that was often contradicted in the sense that it was expected that you would be running hard every day. And so, you know, just the character that it takes to be able to ignore that when all the pressure is on you to perform really well. That's kind of ultimately how I, you know, I try to go about, you know, my life

and my day is, you know, doing what I feel is true to, to myself. When and why did you decide to start marathon running in the first place? When I started to run, it was during the COVID pandemic. And so during that time, I was, you know, stuck indoors. I needed something to get me going. And I was just like, okay, let's just start running. I went out. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a hard, you're out of breath, it's uncomfortable, but I just saw it as a way to improve. I mean, Christian, some people would try to run a marathon in fewer than four hours, but as I understand it, you're trying to match Tom's time. You're about nine and a half minutes off this time. Why is it important to you to match Tom's time? When I first started to run and I first looked up

to Tom and just knowing that he ran a 224, 24 in Boston, you know, that's like one of the, that's the most famous race that he did that's what he's you know known for so that kind of became like the the pinnacle for me it was like okay like what's the biggest challenge for for myself you question can i really do this and you get closer and closer um you know reality begins to set in and your confidence builds and you realize like hey you know what maybe i really can do this it's it's really giving me the ability to wake up every morning knowing that there's a goal in place and just putting in the work to get there and just being able to feel what it's like to run a marathon at the speed that Tom did. That's honestly what it's about is I just want to have that feeling and know what it's

like to carry my legs and my body over that distance at that speed. And so that's ultimately why I chose to run, why I'm set out to run a 224. You know, I was looking at a photo of Tom running and his shoes they almost look like leather bowling shoes or almost like socks it's certainly not the kind of shoes of you know high performance athletes of today does it ever blow your mind to think about what your great great grandfather was able to accomplish you know i think of that a lot when i when i'm in training and yeah no it does it does cross my mind and um it just goes to show you know what a resilient strong tough athlete he was you know although i may run a 224 one day it doesn't mean, you know, I'm any better of a runner than him.

You know, when you're on the course, you're taking in fluids, you know, every few kilometers, you're taking in your nutrition, your gels. And, you know, these things weren't available to Tom or to these other runners. And they had to completely do it based on feel, how their body felt, and just based on grit and determination. So it's just so much respect goes out to him for just being able to take on a challenge like that. And just finally, what do you think Tom would make of what you're doing? Well, I would certainly like to hope that he would be very proud of just, you know, my ambition

and my goals and in terms of running, you know, ultimately what the goal is for me is to, you know, be able to inspire the youth, the younger generation, other kids who may be living on Six Nations Reserve or another reserve, you know, across Canada, just for them to find something that they love to do something they're passionate about and just to chase that dream because that's what running is for me. It's what makes me the most passionate in life and just brings out the best version of myself. And so I'd really like to hope that, you know, Tom would just be proud of that and would be, you know, in full endorsement of that. Christian, thanks so much and congratulations. Awesome. Thank you so much for the time. It's much appreciated. Thank you.

Christian Jameson is a marathon runner and the great-great-grandson of Tom Longboat. He's in Niagara Falls, Ontario. Mexico's Pyramid of the Moon is a place of cultural and historical significance, and therefore usually full of tourists. But today it's closed in the wake of a mass shooting. As you've likely heard, a 27-year-old Mexican national open fire, at the top of the Chochewa Khan pyramid yesterday morning. He killed a Canadian woman and injured 13 other people before killing himself.

Today, Foreign Affairs Minister Anita Anand said Mexican officials are continuing to investigate in that she will, quote, leave no stone unturned, unquote. Lynn Forbes is on vacation with friends in Mexico. She was at the bottom of the pyramid when the shooting began. We reached her in Mexico City. Lynn, how are you holding up today in the wake of all this? Fine. The one news we got today was the tour guide that we had with us, had another tour guide friend there, and that other tour guide was shot. And so today was talking a lot about that when we got together with our tour guide to find out more about it.

And we had discovered that there's a lot more to the story than might have been reported out. We can't confirm it all because it's all second. hand, but it seems like there's a lot more people injured than what had been released, but there's no confirmation from our end. So at what point yesterday did you first realize that something was wrong? We had just finished coming down the Temple of Moon and took a photograph of the seven women that were there, and we walked away over to another corner, maybe about a two-minute walk, not even away.

And we were looking at some items with a vendor and waiting for him to be able to have talk to us next because he was going to demo something. And all of a sudden we heard a pop, which we thought was a firecracker. And then we kind of looked around and somebody said that they thought it sounded like fire like a gun. And we looked back to the temple and saw people coming over the top like a water. waterfall running down and falling down the stairs and somebody fell off or jumped off the side down to the level below. And then all of a sudden somebody yelled, it's a shooter, run.

And we didn't know which way to run. And so luckily enough, we were most of us together and our guide said run up the stairs and towards a parking lot, which we did. And we didn't get a chance to turn around and look at too much of the chaos because one of the women that was near us, not in our group, but another woman, had fallen over backwards and somebody yelled out, she's just been shot. So the adrenaline was way up and we were running. And we got to the parking lot. Luckily enough, our driver who had dropped us off at the front of the entrance, heard the shot

and saw two armed guards running to the entrance. So he knew something was wrong. And he started coming towards us. and then our driver, our guide told him where we were and he got there within five minutes. We were lucky because we ran through the Bill Gates and out into the van and then they shut the Bill Gates behind us. And there were all the people that were in there were still in there to six hours later. They wouldn't release them. But the thing was we didn't know when we were running, whether we were running into,

another shooter because what happened is the echoing in that area made it sound like shots were coming from three, four different directions. So we thought there were, we thought there were a lot of shooters. It only was one, but it was just the echoing that was happening off of some of the buildings. Yeah, that must have been terrifying. It certainly was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand you took a photo that actually appears to have the shooter in the frame. Correct. He's in the, he's climbing up the stairs right behind us in our photo. When we got in the van, we started searching all of the media and social media, trying to find anybody's account of what was happening.

And it took us a while, but we found someone's video that showed him shooting from the top. And we noticed that he had a black and white plaid shirt. So I thought, well, then the photo that I've got on my camera must have a minute because it was seconds, I mean, minutes later. And so I started looking at it, and he's clear his day. He's walking up with nobody around him, and there's the plaid shirt. You're visiting from Vancouver. What went through your mind when you learned it was a Canadian woman who had been killed?

Well, you know, obviously terrible. The thing is, there's so many tourists there, but there would be a lot of Canadians, I think, and Americans that go there. Did your family back home know that you were visiting the pyramids yesterday, and how worried were they? They did know, but they didn't get any information. We had to phone them and let them know because it hadn't hit the news until quite a while after. They must have been shocked when you told them. They absolutely were.

And knowing that we were here for another day, they just said, you know, let's stay in your hotel. But, you know, the thing is, it's a one-off in my thought. I think that that could happen anywhere. I don't feel threatened. We're walking around Mexico City. I mean, there's a lot of people that are on the streets that are armed and a lot of armed guards. And not an overabundance, but you can feel the security. So I don't know.

I just feel a little bit safe. Today, Mexican government officials said police found pamphlets related to the 1999 Columbine High School shooting in the shooter's backpack and that yesterday happened to be the anniversary of Columbine. How did those details sit with you? Well, yeah, not very good. It makes you realize that maybe when prepping for any kind of tours like that, that sometimes you have to look into that. What is today?

Is it a significant day of any sort? Because people do get a little anxious about certain things that are, you know, milestones like that. So I don't know if that'll be something I look into, but it certainly makes me aware that that could be something to check into. Thank you so much for telling us about it. Thank you. Lynn Forbes is a Canadian tourist.

We reached her in Mexico City. I want a brighter word than bright, a fairer word than fair. That's from the first of the famous. famous love letters that poet John Keats wrote to Fannie Braun. Letters that Keats' officinados will tell you contain some of the most romantic turns of phrase ever scratched on paper with a quill pen. And maybe more so because their romance was sadly doomed. Two years after writing that letter, John Keats died of tuberculosis at the age of 25, leaving

Fanny heartbroken. But the letters lived on and after Fanny's death, they were auctioned off in London. Eight of them came into the possession of the wealthy Whitney family and were eventually bound into a book that sat proudly on the shelf of the family's Long Island estate for decades until that book was stolen in the 1980s. And its whereabouts remained unknown until it turned up at a rare book shop in Manhattan last year, a literary mystery that has only now been solved. Joshua Mann is the owner of B&B Rare Books.

We reached him in New York City. Josh, tell me about the day this book of John Keats' love letters first found its way into your shop. Yeah, it found its way. just randomly sort of one afternoon. I actually wasn't here that day. I had the day off. And it seems to be whenever these things happen,

I happen to have the day off. And then this time, but my partner in our catalog, we're here at the time. It walked in, and I got a call to come in that day when my partner Sunday realized what was in front of her.

And I changed my plans, went down, went down to, yeah, the office that day, had a look on the floor, which was like a spread of books, and the Keith's was there sort of in the middle of it. And the gentleman who brought them in, had stepped away for like coffee or something like that at the time. So we had some time to assess what it was that we were dealing with. Yeah. What does it actually look like? Yeah.

So it's this, it's this finely leather bound volume. It's in full leather. This is like a custom commissioned binding where someone knew they had something wonderful, valuable that they were intending to preserve. Yeah. So you open it up and you go to letter number one and then facing the transcription is the original letter inside the book. So it wasn't like the letter. letters were just sort of like slid in there that was like custom bound to have the letters bound into the book.

Wow. So as I understand it, you were suspicious of this customer's account. So what did you tell you and why did it make you suspicious? Usually what happens here is whenever we purchase anything from anyone and in this case, the public, we ask a very simple question to start things off. office, where did this come from? More often than not, this is not usual circumstance, but more often than not, we asked that question. People gladly volunteer the information. They give us names, give us a whole chain of ownership, everything they know, no problem. In this case, it was extremely

vague, and he was, you know, kind of cagey, you know, avoiding the question. Just, you know, it's been in my family for generations, found in an attic. And we, you know, it's been in my family for generations, found in an attic. we, you know, to me, I'm like, well, we've heard that before. My radar was such that there's no way this guy has title for this material. And so then what did you do? So what we did was we had to devise a plan between me and the other business owner to buy ourselves some time to find out who owns these books. the other owner sort of had this idea that she could, you know, hide the Keats among the other poetry.

So it wouldn't leave here, which was basically take everything else you'd like to show this other bookseller. But please leave the poetry, leave the wild, the Po, the Keats here with us. So we can keep reviewing it. And he agreed to it. He showed up randomly a couple days later, asking for us to return everything to him. and then that's when everything started to escalate. And so how did you actually get to the bottom of this in the end? Like how did you find out?

Yeah, yeah. So we kind of put ourselves in this list like lockdown for two months where we have to figure out who owned these books. And everything was pointing to some to someone in the early 20th century, like in the 20s or 30s that appeared to be a prolific collector. We didn't find that name Whitney until we got a little more desperate and reached out to art loss. But, you know, we didn't think we'd find anything with art loss.

But, you know, we're like, all right, let's just try it. Let's pay four or 500 pounds for an expedited search to see if they can get us information. Because meanwhile, this guy is trying to sue us to get his material back. Oh, wow. So he's doubling down saying that he owns it, which in the end he didn't. Art loss, like almost instantly produced the next day a police report. from 1989 asking us to confirm if that was the same item. Mm-hmm.

And we said, absolutely, that's the Keats, like what other, you know, book is bound with eight Keats letters inside it. Wow. And then from there, we forwarded that onto our lawyers. We got a call from the district attorney's office within like 24 hours saying, you guys did the right thing. Hold on to it. We're going to, you know, get warrants and everything you need to get this back to us and

to the Whitney family. And so all this culminated in an event yesterday when the book was actually returned to Descendants of the Whitney's from who was stolen. So what was that moment like? For it to reach its conclusion, I think that felt rewarding. There were a couple moments that felt the most rewarding was one where we heard from the DA. And like, oh, finally, someone's on our side taking over on this and getting it back to the family. And then, you know, on Monday, it's like it's finally going back to the family. But the downside was that it kind of isn't going to the family because it's just going off to Sotheby's from there.

It's not going into anyone's library within the family because they're choosing to cherish it. And it's just it doesn't mean anything other than money. You know, the proceeds are going to charity, but we would have liked it just to reside in a collection that we might have had some control over placing it with. But the DA did thank B&B Rare Books for doing the right thing. That's got to feel good. Oh, 100%. You know, and he recognized that, you know, we wouldn't have been there had, you know, had we not done that right thing. So we appreciated hearing that, you know.

Josh, thanks so much for telling us about it. Of course. Josh, Mann is the owner of B&B Rare Books. He's in New York City.

You've been listening to the As It Happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio 1 following your world tonight. You can also listen to the show online at cbc.ca.ca.a slash AIH or on the CBC Listen app. Thanks for listening. I'm Nora Young. And I'm Chris Howden.

For more CBC podcasts, go to CBC.ca.com slash podcasts.