Israel update: death penalty law, Iran attacks

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This is a CBC podcast. Hey everybody, I'm Jamie Poisson. As the U.S. and Iran ratchet up the threats to take the war into an even more violent stage. And as a last-ditch attempt at a ceasefire continues, today on the show, we are going to focus on Israel, a country fighting on many fronts at the moment. Israel has continued over the weekend to take out key Iranian leaders and hit over a hundred targets in Iran. They have invaded southern Lebanon.

Meanwhile, settler violence in the West Bank has increased. In Gaza, there remains an unstable ceasefire in a critical humanitarian situation. Israel has also passed a controversial death penalty law that human rights groups say will apply exclusively to Palestinians. There's a lot going on, so we wanted to check in with Israeli journalist Mayrone Rappaport. Maron has been reporting on Israel for over 30 years and was formerly the head of news at Israel's Ha'Orest newspaper. He is now an editor with the Hebrew language news site Local Call.

Maron, thank you so much for making the time. Thank you for having me. Let's start with the latest from the war. On Monday, Israel, carried out a strike that killed the intelligence chief of the IRGC, the latest in a number of assassinations of Iran's most senior officials. I was updated by the chief of staff that overnight in Tehran, the IDF eliminated Majid Khademi, head of the IRGC intelligence organization, one of those directly responsible for these war crimes and one of the three most senior figures in the organization.

Israel has continued to carry out air strikes across Iran, including. targeting a series of petrochemical complexes. Can you tell me more about what Israel is trying to accomplish in Iran? It's really not very clear. And I think although the army boasts that it is acting without almost any resistance and that it is controlling the Earth space over Iran and in acting freely, it is not quite very clear what the goals are. Oh, yes, Israel continue to target senior officials in the Iranian regime.

It is bombing infrastructure, and it is presumably going to act with President Trump on attacking the power plants on Wednesday morning, according to our time, in Iran. He said Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day. All wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Open the, and that's where the president uses an expletive straight, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch.

Praise be to Allah, President Donald J. Trump. A move that probably could be some kind of a game changer. What's the feeling amongst the Israeli population? about the war a month in, like just how widespread is support for what Israel is doing? No, the support is high, but it is going down at the same time. And when you are asked, when Israelis are asked whether it is reasonable, feasible to achieve the goals set in the beginning, like toppling the regime in Iran, we are under 50%. So I think there is a change.

There is a fatigue in the Israeli public. People also analysts, but certainly people on the street, are asking, when will it end? I just hope it ends soon. I don't know. It just seems a little chaotic still and a bit like quarantine and war together. And where are the goals and what are the goals? For me, like a citizen, I don't know. I'm not in the government.

I don't know exactly what they are deciding. And they didn't tell the people in Israel what they do. So all the time you don't know what will be tomorrow. Israel is quite understood. They were told that the aim and that they expect, that Israel expect that the regime will fall quite, soon after that. That did not materialize.

This goal is less and less mentioned. And the nuclear capability was hit already in June. But we know that the uranium, the uranium itself is hidden somewhere. And at the moment, there is no real plan to take it. So it stays in Iran. and the missile program is maybe hit, but the results we see every day that Iran after six weeks is still firing missiles and hitting infrastructure, hitting Haifa.

Yesterday there were four people killed in an attack. Hours of searching through the rubble to recover bodies after an Iranian missile hit Haifa in northern Israel. But people here are also searching for answers. About why Israel's advanced air defense systems failed to intercept this missile. The situation is it's not clear what are the goals and the goal, the main goal, is now opening the Strait of Hormuz, which was, of course, opened before the war. And in any case, it's not really an Israel. issue. It's a world issue. It's an issue for world economy. It's an issue for the Gulf countries. It's an

issue for Asia, for India, for Japan, for South Korea. For Israel, it's less of an issue. So I think people are quite confused. You mentioned earlier that Israel will presumably support the United States in attacking power plants as per Trump's threat, right? I guess unless this kind of last-ditch attempt at a ceasefire is reached. You said that it would be a game-changer. And just briefly, I wonder if you could elaborate for me on what you mean by that. Well, I'm not sure that it will be a game-changer, but it certainly is portrayed like this, first of all, by Trump himself.

These strikes on the power plant will be the decisive blow that will lead Iran to surrender. We have a plan because of the power of our military where every bridge in Iran will be decimated by 12 o'clock tomorrow night, where every power plant in Iran will be out of business,

burning, exploding, and never to be used again. I mean complete demolition by 12 o'clock, and it'll happen over a period of four hours if we wanted to. We don't want that to have. If I have to assess, I don't think that it will be that these attacks on the power plants will force Iran to surrender. It will quite probably lead Iran to intensify its attacks on power facilities in the region, in the Gulf. It will maybe that it will lead the Houthis in Yemen, the allies of Iran, to close.

the Babelmandib straits that are leading into the Red Sea, an even more important waterway, even more important than the Strait of Hormuz. So I think what we are seeing now, up till now, is Iranian leadership, even more determined, feels or at least gives the feeling that it is the winning side. It may be complete propaganda, but certainly reading the statement by Iranian leaders, especially Kalibha. Well, the Speaker of Iran's parliament has also responded to Trump in a social media post.

Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf wrote, quote, Your reckless moves are dragging the United States into a living hell for every single family. And our whole region is going to burn because you insist on following Benjamin Netanyahu's commands. Make no mistake, you won't gain anything through war crimes. And comparing them to the statement by Trump, you see a side that is what this shows, self-confident Iranian, and the other side showing signs of distress and pressure.

Meanwhile, Israel has been increasing its attacks on Lebanon in areas where Hezbollah holds control as well as areas where they don't. More than a million people have been displaced in the war. They have invaded southern Lebanon. Israel's defense minister says his forces will take full control of the south in the area up to the Latani River, about 10% of Lebanon. He says border homes will be destroyed just like in Gaza and that Israel won't leave until threats posed by Hezbollah against Israel are removed.

I think it's worth mentioning, according to reporting in the New York Times, Israel is pushing Shia Muslims out of southern Lebanon, but is telling Christians and Druze they can stay. Since early March, more than 1,400 people have reportedly been killed, including many children, according to the Lebanese health ministry. As the conflict enters its sixth week, civilians are increasingly being caught in the fighting. Some attacks have even killed entire families. Officials don't differentiate between combatant and civilian deaths,

but they estimate roughly 25% of them are children, paramedics and women. Maron, you know, how would you describe what is happening in Leviton right now? I wrote to peace in Doeco, about... the Jinges-Han policy of Benjamin Netanyahu. A week ago, in a press conference, Benjamin Netanyahu said... Well, history proves that, unfortunately, and unhappily, Jesus Christ has no advantage over Jinnis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough,

evil will overcome good. aggression will overcome moderation. This I claimed in my piece was not a flip of the tongue, although he apologized later and said that he didn't want to denigrate Jesus Christ, of course. It's quite obvious that the last thing that Benjamin Netanyahu needs now is to fight with the evangelical base in the Republican Party. But I think it represents a real strategy of. Israel. Israel is adopting the methods of Kingas Khan. Defense Minister Israel Kats said openly

that Israel will not allow the 600,000 Lebanese were forced to go north of the Littani River. It will not allow them to come back and destroy the villages, as it did in Rafah and Han Yunus in the Gaza Strip. Now, in Rafah and Kanyuns in the Gaza Strip, Israel conducted a policy that is blatant war crime. I think it strengthened the accusation that it is committing a genocide because it destroyed whole cities. The city of Rafah was a city of more than 200,000 people. It goes back in history 3,000 years ago, and it was completely destroyed to the ground. These are the last leader who adopted such methods in the Middle East with the grandson of Gingas Khan when he completely destroying Baghdad, the biggest city in the world then,

and killing more than 100,000 people and leveling Baghdad to the ground. I think this is what Israel has done in Gaza, trying to force an ethnic cleansing. of Gaza, and now it is copying these methods to Lebanon, and this is the idea, and now even senior military commander of the Northern Command, admitted even if Israel will reach the Littani River and ethnic Kniems this area, the missiles will keep going, because Hezbollah is firing these missiles north of the Lichani. And the only way to prevent Hezbollah from launching these missiles is to occupy the whole of Lebanon. And just to be clear, do you think there is a goal here to occupy the whole of Lebanon?

I think that the idea of occupying southern Lebanon is very strong and holding it for a very long period. There are also in the right wing, in the more religious right wing, ideas that until the litany is part of greater Israel. So there are even plans to settlements in this area. At the moment, it seems a little bit out of touch, but we have seen that the idea of settlements in the West Bank was in the beginning, seemed quite out of touch. but now we have a few hundreds of them.

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possible manpower collapse for the military due to all of these offensive and defensive military actions that are going on. I just, like, how urgent is that concern and what would that look like if his fears came true? It's not clear if this warning was part of a political game or a real thing, because there is an internal discussion, political discussion in Israel about the how redeemed the ultra-Orodox 90% of them do not serve in the army and there is a

huge political discussion in Israel when the parties of the center right, center and center left demand that they will go to the army because there is such

a shortage of soldiers in the army so it's not clear if what Zamir said was part of of this internal political issue. But it certainly represents a problem. Israel, it cannot control the Middle East. It cannot control Iran.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants his nation to become a Super Sparta, a bastion of economic self-sufficiency in the face of international pressure over the genocide in Gaza. When Benjamin Netanyahu talked about Super Sparta, he later tried to explain that he meant that it will be self-sufficient on on defense. We are going to produce an independent arms industry, very powerful, very strong, that can withstand any kind of international political constraints and will provide security for the state of Israel. This is what I envision for the state.

But when you say super-Sparta and Benjamin Netanyahu is the son of an historian, it means a mentality that the whole society has one goal, and that is to fight forever, that the goal of the society, that this society is being proved, move itself when it is going to walk.

I want to pivot a little bit here and ask you about, we'll talk a little bit more about the Palestinians. And perhaps we could start with this controversial new death penalty. law. The man popping champagne is Israel's far-right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir. And what he's celebrating is the death penalty, specifically a new law that just passed Israel's parliament approving the death penalty for Palestinians convicted of killing Israelis. Israel has had the death penalty pretty much its entire existence, as I understand it, although only for certain crimes and it has hardly ever been used. How is this new law that has made international headlines different?

It is true that Israel had that penalty from its very beginning. That penalty exists also in the martial law which governed the Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza. But it was never used against Palestinian, and it did not exist in the civil law. Now the difference is that it went into the civil law also, not only in the military, there are also changes in the military. But the big issue is that in the civil law and also in the martial law, it has written that the death penalty will be applied only to those acting against Israel as a Jewish state.

Now, again, it was not written literally that it will be applied only against Palestinian. but this phrase definitely means that if an Israeli will murder Palestinian, as, for example, Baruch Goldstein in the tomb of the patriarch. On the 25th of February 1994, an American-Israeli far-right settler, Baruch Goldstein, entered the mosque during prayers and started shooting. He killed 29 worshippers and wounded nearly 200. He himself was chased down and beaten to death. Then he will not be sentenced to death because although he killed Palestinian in prayer,

he did not act against Israel as a Jewish state. There's no other words than apartheid. Israel always fought this definition of apartheid, but there's really no other way to describe it now in the law itself, and it's quite clear. But I think more than whether it will lead to execution and hanging of Palestinian because it will be with hanging, that's the law says quite literally. I think it shows where the atmosphere in Israel, the public atmosphere now in Israel,

this law was passed with a majority, even part of the world. of what is called the opposition voted for this law. And the fact that Itamar Benghira, the Minister of National Security, from the very extreme, right celebrated a law of death in the Knesset with trying to open a battle of champagne for death.

And that's something that still, if there is anything Jewish about this Jewish state. This goes against all Jewish values in the last 2000 years. You mentioned Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's national security minister, far-right, ultra-nationalist. You know, I see that he wears like a new-shaped lapelpin in parliament. I saw a video he made in like an execution chamber as well, kind of centered around this bill. I mean, this is all happening as monitoring groups have reported a spike in violence in the West Bank, which I would also like to talk to you about violence from Israeli settlers

towards Palestinians. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that since late February, there have be in 250 attacks on more than 100 Palestinian communities. At least seven Palestinians were killed by settlers in March, the highest monthly toll in years. The UN rights chief says 36,000 people have been displaced. And I wonder if you could just tell me more about what has been happening in the West Bank. Yes. What's happening in the West Bank is, again, a continuation of something that's going for years, but certainly since Betal's Motto. the head of another extreme rights party

has become his now finance minister but also minister in the minister with defense responsible for the West Bank he changed really a lot of rules and laws in order to widen the settlements

he gave a lot of money to small settlements to illegal settlements to all kind of farms where you have very few people that what they do actually is harassing and harassed Palestinian communities. And what happened is that in the last few months, these settlers are kind of copying what Israel did in Gaza of a policy of ethnic cleansing. Now, while in Gaza it was done officially by the government, by the army, here it is done by privately, I would say, the ethnic cleansing was privatized. And they do it with, of course, the help of the army that supervise and does not interfere. But what they do is that they attack these communities. They open fire if they seem necessary for them.

and they killed and, you know, they spread terror and many communities have left. What happened in the last few weeks is that it seems that they went a little bit too far by these attacks because they attacked also soldiers, because they attacked also Christian communities there. And there is a pressure from the American administration. and now in the last weeks in the Israeli media you talk more about them

they are named terrorists these Jewish settlers, this is a term that is usually used only for Palestinian, not for Jews. So there is some kind of change of art here.

It has to be seen if it's a real change or only some kind of PR in order to satisfy the Americans. Okay. I just want to be clear about one thing you said, the escalation or some of the escalation that we've seen is settlers attacking IDF soldiers, right? Yes. Officially the sovereign power in the West Bank is the Israeli army. That's according to the Israeli law, because these areas were not annexed. So sometimes soldiers come and, for example, When these settlers build another illegal settlement, another illegal farm, soldiers would come and dismantle it according to the laws of the martial laws that exist in the West Bank.

So then they are being attacked. You know, Maron, everything that we've talked about today, there is so much going on here. And, you know, we've talked about Gaza throughout. We haven't even addressed that directly. Over the weekend, we saw an airstrike kill at least four Palestinians. According to medics, Israel said it was targeting a militant cell near its troop, but the ceasefire is very fragile, as my point. In the human situation, there remains critical.

What impact is all of what we have talked about today together, taking on the politics of Israel? Israel is experiencing a very politically, a very... bizarre phenomenon that is maybe hard to understand from the outside. On the one hand, there is a wide support for this parliamentality, for this Jenghis Khan strategy. It is applied by the army without any hesitation. The war in Iran, that is, according to me, completely legal, is supported by so many Israelis. So on the other hand, Benjamin Netanyahu himself,

who is the instigator of these policies, is not enjoying it politically. He is viewed by Israelis as one who only cares about his political calculation, that he is doing all this to avoid going to prison, And there are supposed to be election on October 26, and is lagging very far behind. So it's quite peculiar that the acceptance of his ideology and strategy is not translated to political power or to political support. this is quite peculiar, but it is going on for some years. So it does seem that this is here to stay.

Okay, Mehran, thank you, as always, for being here. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

All right, that's all for today. I'm Jamie Plessall, and thanks so much for listening. talking to you tomorrow.