TRUE CRIME ROUNDUP: Tupac Shakur murder trial, Luigi Mangione's plea, a daycare murder tragedy and more

There's no worse scenario than this, where you drop off the child to somewhere you think it's safe, and you get that phone call. I think we can all relate who have children and those who don't. This is just a tragic situation anywhere in the world. This is a true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast. We explore crime stories reported on by Odyssey's radio newsrooms across the country. I'm your host, Lauren Barry. This week, we're diving into a case out of WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities, the one you heard about a bit at the top of the show. It's a brutal tale of murders allegedly carried out by a man against his wife and child at a home daycare where other children were present. The suspect is also accused of killing his mother. We'll hear from a woman who knew the suspect's slain wife and daughter, a woman who sent her own children to that daycare. But first, we have updates on the now decades-old Tupac Shakur murder case and Luigi Mangione's surprise move to plead guilty this week, shaking up his long-awaited trials. We'll also cover other developing cases from around the nation. We'll start with the Tupac Shakur case. Shakur was a beloved and now legendary rapper. He was shot dead in Las Vegas on September 13, 1996. Now, a murder trial is finally underway, with Dwayne Davis accused of killing Shakur. Mike Simpson and Margaret Carrero of Odyssey Station, KNX News in Los Angeles, discussed the trial with an expert on the case this week. We've been talking about this morning the trial for the murder of Tupac Shakur. Finally, 30 years later, this is for Dwayne Davis, Keefe D. Maybe you remember the arrest video, the body cam? He said September 96, the drive-by near the strip. Now, prosecutors don't say Davis fired the shots, but basically that he set it up, that he was the shot caller on the line with us now. Journalist and greater and host of the podcast, Tupac's murder, was his case. Lena Nozizue. Lena, thank you so much for being with us this morning. I'm delighted to be with you, Margaret and Mike. Did you think you would ever see the day when someone was tried for Tupac's murder? Well, yes and no, and that when I first covered the story almost 30 years ago, my very first story had Orlando Anderson's name in it. And Orlando Anderson is, of course, Kee-D.'s nephew. But... Year after year, nothing happened when I started my podcast five years ago and picked up things, found out that Keefe had written a confessional book, which now he says he didn't write. I was really wondering, why wasn't he arrested? And there was this confession that was not a confession, according to Keefe now, made to an LAPD detective. So I wonder, why wasn't he arrested? Why didn't anything happen? And now...

here's the day. So yes, the characters are all familiar, but getting here has been a long and winding road. Let me pick up on what you were just saying about that memoir, right? What's the defense here? He's said to have boasted for years about this, and then the book came out where he said, yeah, I was in the car. Now he's saying he didn't write the book and he wasn't in Vegas at all. How do they get anybody to believe that? Well, they're sure trying what he has saying now, what he said before in the book was that not only did he get the gun and that. P-Ditty paid him or was going to pay him a million dollars to make the hit, that he handed it to the shooter. Now he's saying, I made it all up because I wanted money. He saw that the Los Angeles detective who had surreptitiously taken that confession, recorded it. He saw him making money off a documentary, off a book, off a TV series. And what I understand is he wanted to make it too. And his defense says that's all it was about just making money. Given that you've been covering this case pretty much from the beginning, are you planning on being in Vegas for any part of the trial? I may go for some parts, of course. In the beginning, it's just going to be about jury selections, and some very important decisions may be made, including regarding a potential witness. The person I've been focused on for my podcast is Brent Becker, one of the original homicide detectives, and who knows if he might be testifying. So there are certain witnesses I would very much like to see, although apparently, according to what he's saying today, Shug Knight, who is in the car with Tupac, who I've also interviewed. He's saying, ain't my job. I'm not going to be there, even though he is on the very voluminous witness list. How do you pick a jury for this? I guess, yeah, it's been 30 years, but to your point earlier, books, podcasts, documentaries, a lot of people know this case. Very good question, and it's one that I asked the defense attorney, the current defense attorney, Michael Samp. And he believes that it's possible. He believes there's a very diverse population in Las Vegas because I was really curious about the Clark County juror pool. Because if you look at O.J. Simpson, and I covered part of the civil trial of that. The outcome might have been different had it been tried in Santa Monica, say, versus Los Angeles, downtown Los Angeles. So Sam believes he can get a jury of Keefe's peers. So, but that was definitely a big question to me, what would be the makeup of a jury? Next, we're going to hear from Odyssey Station, WWJ News Radio in Detroit.

Their newsroom reported on a mass shooting this week in Michigan. A mass shooting in northern Michigan has left six people dead and one critically injured. Joining us live with the very latest on this is WWJ's Ryan Wrecker. I just spoke to Michigan State Police Lieutenant Ashley Miller. She says around 1140 this morning near Lake City, that's northeast of Cadillac. A person involved called 911 to report a shooting. Officers arrived. They found three people dead in a fourth. who was taken to the hospital. It started a massive search for a person of interest, 39-year-old Chad Hickman. And as part of the manhunt for Hickman, State Police searched a location, and they found the body of a different victim. Soon after, police found Hickman's car abandoned near a wooded area. And with the help of canine, they found the body of Hickman and another person dead in the woods. That's six total. At this time, the names, ages, and relation of the victims are not being released as they investigate. They say there's no threat to the public. but police are telling anyone in the area to stay clear. Reporting live, Ryan Wrecker, WWJ News Radio 950. Odyssey Station, KYW News Radio in Philadelphia, reported on several crime cases this week. including this disturbing investigation into a house on the north side of the city. New details into the Olney House investigation. Philadelphia police identified two women who've been missing for years and are linked to a house in Alney at the center of what police are calling a death investigation. Officials believe the women are deceased. But they can't officially confirm that because there are no bodies. More now from KYW's crime and justice reporter Kristen Johansson. Investigators say after nearly 100 search warrants in continuous investigation, they've identified two missing women who are seen alive and later dead on videos recovered from the home on Chew Avenue. It's dark. It's real dark. Inspector Ray Evers says the two women are Gabrielle Amando and Maribel Friesis. Usually when we have a homicide investigation, we have a body. This time we do not. He says they're considering it a death investigation. at this point and hope anyone with information involving the home or the men who live there. Eugene Horsh and his late father, R.C. Horsh will call them. We have to look over 600,000 images, 70,000 videos, and over 10,000 pages of writings, manuscripts, and drawings. And they've only been through about 5% of that. The investigation started in late June with a car stop. Eugene was taken into custody after police say guns, drugs, fake federal badges, and the ID of a missing girl were found inside his... car. It led detectives to the only home where they found five ash-filled urns, chemicals, drugs, a 55-gallon tub, and a lab in the basement. They also sent a giant pipe and some jugs filled with fluid off to specialized labs in their awaiting results. This is one of the one or two largest investigations that homicide is going to handle. Outside police headquarters, Kristen Johansson, KW News Radio 103.9 FM. KYW also reported on this update to a longstanding cold case. Police in Atlantic City announced the arrest of a man wanted for a murder nearly 20 years ago.

We get the story now from KYW South Jersey reporter Mike Doherty. The Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office says 44-year-old Billy Woods of Atlantic City was arrested and charged with killing 32-year-old David Nesbitt in 2009. Over the past several months, investigators re-examined evidence from the cold case, and they determined there was enough evidence to charge Woods with murder. A grand jury indicted him July 14th. The shooting took place on South Carolina Avenue in Atlantic City just after midnight June 3rd. Woods was taken into custody with help from the U.S. a court date was not immediately announced. At the South Jersey Bureau, Mike Dardy, KYW News Radio, 103, 1039 FM. And the Philly Station also covered the case of a teenager accused of a triple homicide. The Montgomery County DA's office says an 18-year-old is charged with multiple counts of attempted murder in a Norristown shooting he allegedly recorded on his own phone. KW Suburban Bureau Chief Jim Melwart reports. The affidavit of probable cause says when 18-year-old Rashad Oliver was taken into custody for the August 1st shooting in Nars Town, they found video on his phone. Well, it says he dropped the phone before firing shots. Someone's heard yelling his name, followed by the gunshots, then footsteps fading and coming back as Oliver retrieved the phone. Investigators say this is consistent with other video, which they say shows three people sitting outside the Chestnut Street home. According to the complaint, Oliver and another man both wearing masks. walk up, say something to the three, then Oliver slaps one of them. That person slaps him back and Oliver pulls a gun, tries to pistol whip the person, but misses... And that person punches him in the mouth, breaking his tooth. Oliver's accused of firing into the home, shooting three people with non-fatal injuries, including a 17-year-old girl who was upstairs at the time, but had come down to see why people were yelling. In addition to ballistics evidence, police say they found a piece of Oliver's tooth outside the home. He's charged with three counts of attempted murder, aggravated assault, and related firearms violations. At the suburban bureau, Jim Melward, KYW News Radio, 103.9 FM. Another teen in the Philadelphia area was arrested this week. for the shooting of a high school student. Here's KYW with the report. A little more than a year after the fatal shooting of an Upper Derby High School student, the teen who shot him is sentenced for his murder. But as we hear from KYW's Justin Udo, that sentence did little to comfort the grieving family still trying to make sense of this tragedy. Never would I imagine I would be sitting in a courtroom for my son's murder. Talia Shaw's son's 16-year-old Khal-Webster was shot and killed down the street from their Upper Darby home in May of 2025.

It's been hard. It's been devastating. Parenthood looks different. Shaw spoke outside of an emotion-filled courtroom Tuesday morning at the sentencing for 18-year-old Michael Nixon. Nixon pleaded guilty to third-degree murder after it was discovered in an unprovoked attack. He walked up to Webster who was riding a bike, shot him in the chest, left him for dead, and fled to New Jersey. He didn't call for help. He didn't say I shot somebody. Police called 911. You know what he did? He ran away. But Nixon had nowhere to run as he stood in handcuffs in front of Judge Deborah Crowe, who sentenced him to 18 to 36 years in prison. A sentence Shaw believes there's a slap on the wrist compared to her son's life which was lost in the life she's now forced to live without him. I'm Justin Udo, KYW News Radio 139 FM. A Septuagenarian was shot and killed in Philly this week, and KYW reported on the arrest of a suspect in the case. And now a man in custody after police say a 70-year-old man was shot and killed this morning in North Philadelphia. Let's hear from KW's Sunny Morgan. It was just before 8.30 when officials say a 70-year-old man was shot several times near the intersection of Ogans Avenue and Nidro Avenue. Officers took the man to a nearby hospital where he died a short time later. Sources tell KYW the shooting started as an argument over auto repairs. A 28-year-old man was taken into custody for questioning. Police are investigating and asking. anyone with information to contact them. Sunny Morgan, KYW News Radio 103.9 FM. Our final KYW reports from this week concern a police officer involved in a fatal incident and a woman found dead with several neck ties around her neck. A Delaware County police officer has been cleared of any wrongdoing in last week's shooting death of a knife-wielding man in Alden. The Delco District Attorney says that officer's body-worn camera proves her actions were justified. KW's Jeremy Russ has the details. Delco DA Tanner Rouse showed that body cam footage at a press conference this afternoon. Turn over. Turn over right now. It shows an Alden police officer tasing a man armed with a large kitchen knife several times. He gets back up and the officer shoots him. That man has been identified as 23-year-old Ugo Chu Klu, Ilo Degwe. Investigators say he confronted a police officer who had arrived on South Clifton Avenue early in the morning on August 6th to give someone a courtesy ride. Rouse called the incident tragic and said it's indicative of the state of mental health care in our country. Our mental health systems are not good enough. We are not equipped. We, law enforcement, we, society. are not equipped to handle something like this, and it's a will issue. The officer involved suffered minor injuries and has been cleared to return to active duty. A 59-year-old Bucks County man is now charged with the strangulation death of his wife. It happened yesterday at their home in Bristol. Authorities say days earlier he had been hospitalized for mental health reasons but released as low risk. KW Suburban Bureau Chief Jim Melward has more on the investigation.

54-year-old Dawn Myers was found dead with multiple neckties around her neck on the floor of a bedroom on the second floor of her home on Wood Street in Bristol Borough. When police arrived, her son told them his stepfather. 59-year-old Michael Myers had been taken to the hospital on Tuesday for threats of self-harm, but was ruled low risk and released Wednesday. The son says after he went upstairs and found his mother's body, Myers was standing at the bottom of the steps with his hands on each side blocking the exit. The son hit him on the head with his phone to escape the home. Police say when They were talking to the son. Michael Myers was standing behind the glass door of the home. He obeyed orders to step outside and was taken into custody. They say he was still wearing the hospital bracelet and had scratches on his wrist, arms, neck, and face. Myers is being held without bail on criminal homicide, strangulation, and related charges. Probably the biggest crime story update this week was accused killer Luigi Mangione's decision to plea guilty to federal stalking charges. As the week started, it wasn't clear that the plea was coming. Here's 10-10 wins in New York reporting on Tuesday. Luigi Mangione, making an appearance in court this morning, likely his last before his state trial begins in September. When we were inside of the courthouse, we heard the judge tell both the defense and the prosecution that they need to meet up and talk about their jury questionnaires. And a giant thing that was on the judge's agenda today was pointing out to the media and the public along with the defense and the prosecution that by no means will anyone disrupt. any journalists or members of the public that want to follow along in this case. They say they know it has a ton of public interest and they will make sure overflow rooms are available for anyone that wants to follow it along. But they say the next part of. This trial is going to be jury selection where they need to find an anonymous jury that is unbiased and have those questionnaires squared away, which is what both the defense and prosecution need to do before September 8th. Mary Lynn Buckley, 10-10 wins on 92.3 FM. We're live outside of Manhattan Criminal Court. On Wednesday, Wins reported that something seemed to be changing. This sudden agreement to have the hearing in federal court Friday morning has ramped up speculation of a federal plea deal agreement before the state case would begin next month. Now, if there is a federal plea deal, it could impact the state case because of the double jeopardy rules here in New York State. At the pretrial hearing state case yesterday, Mangione attorney Mark Agnifalo, not really much to say. I'm not commenting, especially when my wife is here. You'll get me in trouble. You know, at that state hearing yesterday, the judge did rule that jurors' names will remain anonymous. Also ruling an overflow courtroom will be made available for the media. Glenn Shuck, 10-10 wins, 92-3 FM.

In Minnesota, where United CEO Brian Thompson and his family lived, WCCO News and Talks, Chad Hartman, reacted to the news of Luigi Mangione's guilty plea. Are the individuals, and it was not a small group, they were incredibly vocal, protests, social media. By the way, I found almost all their comments just embarrassing, shameful and tone death and cruel. All those big-time supporters of Luigi Mangione, when he admits in court today, what he admitted. He pleads guilty to federal charges, charge of two federal stalking counts facing the maximum penalty of life in prison. He says he emailed United Healthcare with the intent to shoot Brian Thompson. On the morning, December 4th, 2024, I shot Mr. Thompson in Manhattan, his back, in his back. I understood my actions would place Thompson in fear of death and bodily injured. Knew what I was doing was illegal. All of you who rallied to this guy's defense, do you want to just admit, I can't believe I did that. What was I thinking? I was 100% wrong and just admit it. And I get the battle that insurance can be in our country. I live it on a not so regular basis with a 25-year-old son who has a genetic condition that 7,800 people have. And he's about to start a lot of therapy on a very important issue. And I am in a position right now where if it's that unique... and that important, at this time I can afford it. So I'm being honest. A lot of other people cannot. A lot of other people have spent tens of hours battling with an insurance company and trying to understand when you have leukemia, cancer, whatever it might be, Crohn's. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, something even more unique like my son has. And you're like, how am I paying this amount of money? And I'm getting this tepid, expensive coverage. That can be inferring. That can be life-altering. But to think what we should do is then hunt down. the head of the company, and brutally kill him, and then come out, social media, I called this out instantly. The amount of text I got just crushing me, he admits he just killed this guy in cold blood. And I'm very sorry that he's faced this severe and debilitating pain. I do not wish that upon him in any way.

But think about what you did. A husband, a father of two kids. He's gone. And it doesn't take a lot of courage to say it can be Dave nauseating to read about United Health and the other insurance companies, Dave. and the amount of money they are making, okay? And then get turned down, excuse me, yourself, your wife, your son, your daughter, and then see the staggering sums of money. But so this is how you're going to do it? Just cold blood, kill a guy? How many other executives have to die? where people said, come on, if you were in that position, somebody had to take that chance. I'm with Luigi. Remember what a big cause that became? You're with a guy. Oh, good, he's handsome. Bravo. You're with a guy who emailed United Health. put in the work, studied the area to know how he could kill Brian Thompson when he's going to get coffee in the morning and on his way to a meeting. You should be so proud. For all of those hardcore Mangione supporters, do you really think the day changes anything? Zero, but they should be embarrassed. I agree. They should be ashamed. I agree. You should not be cheering the cold-blooded murder of anyone, whether you hate the insurance companies, specifically that one, any other insurance companies, no matter what, whether you believe insurance and our nation's... Plenty of problems, plethora of problems we have with our medical system, our insurance system. It can be a joke for many, many millions of people. But of course, you should not be cheering the murder of somebody, whether they run an insurance organization or not. That said, I still, I can see why people thought, well. if I lost a loved one because I wholeheartedly believe insurance should have covered a procedure, a medicine, and that led to someone I love, I care for deeply dying before they should have. I see why people said, you know what? Maybe this is eye for an eye. Maybe this is getting it back a little bit and it's going to change the entire insurance. system as we know it. I'm not saying that this was going to change it. That's what a lot of people believed. A lot of people believed this was going to force insurance companies to look deep into how they operate, how they work force the government to step in in some ways to change the whole system. Obviously it has not.

Minnesota is where a horrifying string of murders took place this week. A 41-year-old man allegedly stabbed his mother to death and then proceeded to kill his wife and child with a screwdriver in a home daycare where other children were present. He allegedly traveled across two Minnesota towns to commit the brutal murders. Odyssey Station WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities was on the story throughout the week. And we'll follow their coverage here of the news as it broke and developed. First, here's some of the initial reporting from Wednesday. Hopkins Police Chief Brent Johnson telling reporters that a man and a woman and their young child are dead following the incident at the Brown Bear Daycare. Investigators say six other young children were at the home at the time. There's no worse scenario than this, where you drop off the child to somewhere you think it's safe, and you get that phone call. I think we can all relate who have children and those who don't. This is just a tragic situation anywhere in the world. Now about 1220 today, Burnsville police responded to a report of a stabbing at a home there. And a short time ago, Laura, we've been told the two are related. Live in the newsroom, Susie Jay Jones, News Talk 830W CC. On Thursday, the day after the murders, the local community had already come together to support each other. It did not take long before law enforcement clergy members and others came to the aid of Hopkins. Mayor Patrick Hanlon. There's already been mental health professionals that have reached out that want to help in any way that they can with our communities. The chaplains that have been working to assist in helping people. understand the unfathomable that happened here today. He says other daycare providers have also come forward to offer free care to those who went to that center, again where that terrible tragedy took place. Susie Jay Jones News Talk 830WCCO. Jay Jones explained how she and other reporters at the station first learned about the crime and the steps they took as new information unfolded in an interview with WCCO's Adam Carter of the Adam and Jordana show. Susie Jay Jones from our newsroom in here, if you can just kind of recap on what you know that is reportable and what we hope to find out at 1130. Well, as I said, Adam. This information kind of starts to trickle in. We have a news service in our newsroom called Dataminer. Okay. They kind of follow and track different, maybe a scanner, et cetera, and they'll kick out information. And sometimes it's accurate. Sometimes it's not. We look at it. Yep. So I got in this morning at 10 and started to see it maybe 10, 20, 1015, and said, oh, it looks like Dataminer says there's...

Three people dead at a daycare center in Hopkins. Okay. So that gets your attention. That absolutely hasn't been confirmed at this point. No, no. But that gets us started. So folks, no. And then we called the Brown Bear Child Care Center voicemail. Gracie Stockton, our morning editor, got online, Googled it. She said, oh, maybe it's old, meaning it might have been sometimes they'll re- post something from the past and so then as the morning as the minutes went by really it became obvious that this was something something yeah and then we made some phone calls and saw different reports and knowing just more at this point adam we're looking at like a location so folks know what's going on where we don't know exactly what happened inside that home there was a report out that said there's no threat to the public which sometimes indicates different things based on, and we don't want to draw conclusions, but we understand from years of covering news what that might mean. And again, just to repeat, it's in Hopkins. It's a home child care center, Tyler Street, between Second Street and Lake Street in Hopkins. So a lot of folks know Hopkins. It's a smaller community. in the west metro right next to St. Louis Park. There are crews at the scene. We have Ari Bergeron there starting to collect information. There's a very large police presence. So people that are out and about maybe avoid that area. Sure. There's some overhead of some aerial video coming from the scene on some of the TV stations we have up here. And as you mentioned, that street is blocked off. There's also yellow police tape, kind of a very wide perimeter. around this home that is the in-home daycare. So clearly there is a crime scene there, and they have roped that off what exactly that crime is and what is happening with the investigation. Again, 1130, police will have more to say on it. I know some reports from the scene saying that police were trying to reunify families with children who are at that daycare at the time, again, to be clear, we have no information at this point, whether any kids have been hurt, whether... what exactly is the nature of this call, but clearly it is serious enough to surround this home with police tape. And it sure looks like there's an at least active crime scene here that police are investigating. Eventually, the identity of the alleged killer and the victims were released. Here's WCCO's Chad Hartman with the details. Yesterday was a nightmare. Nathan Brown.

Kills. Kristen Ann Brown. Evian Brown. Killed his mother, Burnsville home. Horrifying story. Reports. Use of a screwdriver. Paul Bloom was excellent on stories like that. Brown was found in the upstairs closet. self-inflicted gunshot wound. This was a daycare, as you know by now. Six other children inside the daycare at the time. According to Paul Bloom, court filings indicated the child care owner, Kristen Brown, who was killed, by... Her husband had sent out a newsletter to families telling them she planned to close her in-home business due to relationship issues with her husband, Nathan. I heard on Adam and Jordana's show. Jordana did check in. She sounded great, but she's on a listener trip. Adam had a compelling interview with a mother who had her kids. at this daycare and just spoke in a moving way on how Kristen treated the kids and loved the kids and went well beyond in caring for these children. And it just raises so many questions, Dave. First of all, what had been going on before? How long had Kristen Brown live with this tension, this uncertainty, potentially fear? Who knew about it? I mean, just to have this happen in this manner with other kids in the house, daughter killed also, mother.

And if other folks knew about this, how far do we need to go in helping out individuals, apologize for the cough, who horribly are facing a situation like this, Dave? Sometimes you have no idea. I mean, did anybody who was dropping off their kids? Did they have any idea? I'm assuming they knew nothing or else they would have taken their kids out instantly. I would guess in listening to the words from the other mom. We spoke about Kristen who was killed that a lot of these other parents obviously had no idea and they just loved the care that their son and or daughter was receiving. And it adds again to how difficult when you think about it if you need daycare. And you're trying to find the right place and the trust. And sadly, at times the risk that happens when you bring your daughter, son, to a place now, nobody's envisioning something like this. You, it's kind of the classic like what you have right now with your wife, Lindsay, where both are you working. You have a family situation, but you also have a nanny this summer. And how much information do we all have? What roles do states and counties provide in gathering information?

You're living your life. We're probably going to find out because of good reporting how long this may have been going on with something domestically uncomfortable minimum. Was it well beyond that? I don't know. I don't think anybody would be surprised at this point considering the dastardly grotesque act that took place. I mean, these other kids are in the place. You know, we have these sad stories that happen so often, Dave. And we try to provide a smorgasbord of topics on this show from starting with the mayor to Best Sports Movie to Politics. And then I was listening to this as it was unfolding. And Adam was doing just a tremendous job of conveying what we. knew at the time and what we didn't know and even when there's other speculation out there when you're a host here or a newsperson and what you may believe to be true but you can't confirm and it's just i mean it's just awful what what do you want to say about it awful's a great word or if it's a great word it's just You try to listen to news stories and you relate. You put yourselves in no shoes and hear a news story. You think I've been in that situation. But this is just something it's impossible to relate to for, you know, God willing, all of us that are reading this story. It's just this, the level of whatever it is, whether it's evil or just losing your mind to. God only knows what issues for the man here for Nathan Brown to go through with something like this in two different sites. Kill your mother, kill your wife, kill your kid. Just think about that. Yeah. Mom, wife, daughter. Within hours. Yes. And then yourself. Yes, you do this in, you know, two different areas that are not exactly close. Burnsville and Hopkins, you take the drive and you go through and commit with these horrific acts. You have the six other children in the house while this is happening. It's completely unfathomable. What do people know? Maybe they knew nothing. Maybe everybody kept it quiet. Maybe. And maybe if you were Kristen, you knew there was problems, but I would think almost everyone in that situation would think, okay, there's problems, but there's no way it's going to end the way it end. And to end the show, here is that interview Hartman referenced with Carter and a mother whose children once attended Christian Brown's daycare. What has just been an awful story, including our next guest who I reached out to who I'm friends with on Facebook. I saw she made a post last night, so I reached out to her. She's Iola Kastruski. Iola, thank you so much for joining the show today. And of course, I wish it were under different circumstances. But I wanted to have you on to give you a chance.

to talk about this woman and this daycare because you met her and you brought your own children to this daycare. So tell me how you met her and why you came to trust her with your own kids. Yes. Thank you for having me on. I met Kristen around 2019, 2020. through a Facebook post. She was starting a daycare in her home. Her own child was from six, nine months. And at the time, I was living near Tanka, and I needed emergency childcare for my three children as I was going through a divorce and my own custody period at that time. And so she stepped in when I really needed someone in that moment. She was a rock through my parenting journey and the things that I was facing at that time. And she wasn't simply just like the babysitter that you drop your children off. She was someone I trusted with, you know, the children that mean the most to me. I saw that and I was on her daycare Facebook page and I was looking, going through it this morning and seeing all these pictures of these kids and the activities she had planned for them and what she did. You mentioned something that it wasn't simply a place where you would drop your kids off and you just pick them up and you trust, of course, the daycare owner, but she was actually committed. to making sure that these kids while they were in her care were educated and entertained. Talk more about that. Yeah, so... The children who were in her care were, like, her children during those hours. And part of me believes, like, even after those hours, after the kids would home, because that's how she just cared for children. And that's also how she cared for just others. She wasn't just supervising them. She provided a lot of love and care. And because she was so early in the career, I remember her just kind of, like, stumbling through, you know, educational materials and how to talk about different things. Martin Luther King Day, I remember we had like a conversation of like age appropriateness for Martin Luther King. And like, mind you, my children at the time were like three and four, they didn't really have a concept. But that's how much she cared. When she asked you, how are you? It wasn't, you know, small talk, how are you? She actually, she meant that she wanted to hear the answer. She wanted to hear what was happening with your family, not just your child. We're talking to Iola Kastruski, who her own three children, went to Brown Bear Daycare, this in-home daycare where just the awful story happened yesterday. Had you, even though your kids have gotten older past the daycare age, had you kept in contact with Kristen?

Unfortunately, no. I moved out of Minnetonka about 2022, 23. I then moved down to Rochester, and now I'm now in Winnebago, Minnesota. So I didn't necessarily keep in touch. It's just life moved on. Sure. And, you know, we ended up switching from her daycare, nothing due to her, but at the time, I was also an AmeriCorps fellow. And through that, you get a daycare stipend because you're not paid a living wage. And because she's so early on her career, she wasn't a parent-aware daycare. So unfortunately, we did have to move daycares. But, no, she was amazing. And she was an amazing mother. She had her own child. So to have a baby and then also take in other children, I mean, that's a godsend. We processed this news yesterday while we were on the air, and I don't need to express any more words to describe how horrific and awful a story it is. And my producer, Dave Josephson, when we got done talking about it, he just said, you know, I wish we didn't have to talk about stuff like this, and I just want to go home to my kids. When you were aware of the story and then you realized yesterday who was involved. How did you process that news? I think I'm still processing. It's really difficult to realize and accept that someone who cared for my children and was a pillar in the community is done. I think when just talking to someone else, I was like Kristen is, and I had to switch my wording to was. Um, I'm still processing. I'm still trying to figure this out. Um, and also just a lot of whys. Yeah. Just why. Um, yes, I, I'm still, I'm like anger right now is kind of like what's, but I, I don't want my anger to overshadow of like remembering her. I, and I, when I asked you to join us, I said, you know, I, I certainly. I don't want to speculate as to what happened, but I think just kind of based on the information we know and hearing other stories similarly that have happened in the news about domestic violence. And we just had a conversation before you joined about Dave witnessed a situation in his neighborhood this morning, two women fighting. And he was questioning whether he did the right thing or not. I think if in this moment, I think we can all talk about how important it is. to keep in contact with people and stay in contact with people. And certainly if you sense there's some sort of trouble to step in, what would you want to say to that? Well, society, as a society, we have a problem. Yep. There is a problem. Kristen is not the first. And unfortunately, she will not be the last.

We as a society, in better words, figure artish out. But as a friend and as someone who's been through divorce, as someone who has had to leave a partner, when your friends confide in you on what is going on in life, I really, really need people. to develop safety plans with that person, to check in with that person. It has a piece of paper is a piece of paper, and I'm not speculating on anything happening. But restraining orders are just pieces of paper. They, you know, don't count until someone's on your front step. A safety plan checking in, but here's the thing, and it's something I keep going back to, she had parents dropping off their children that morning. Yep. So what more of a safety plan can you have when you have adults at your door? I'm sorry. We as a society have a problem. We have a problem. Iola. I want to leave at least on a positive note because you did know Kristen and you've explained in a beautiful way what kind of person she was. But if you want to leave our listeners with one last thing about the kind of person she was, the kind of business owner she was, what would it be? Yeah, I actually have something I wrote. I don't want the worst thing that happened to Kristen become the only thing people know about her. Kristen is a mother. She was a caregiver. She was a businesswoman. She was a friend. She was a whole person with a whole life before this tragedy. She cared for people's children, including mine, during some of the hardest moments of my children's lives. That's the Kristen I knew, and that's the Kristen I want people to remember. Thank you so much for listening to this True Crime Roundup from the On Deadline podcast. This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Barry. Special thanks to KNX News in Los Angeles, WWJ News Radio in Detroit, KYW News Radio in Philadelphia, 1010 wins in New York, and WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities. You can find these programs on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your podcasts. You can find these True Crime Roundups by subscribing to the On Deadline podcast, the Who Killed Strawberry podcast, or the Bitter Academia podcast, on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.