ICE is planning on spending $20 million for "shock gloves" to subdue and detain people! Good or bad idea?

The mayor made a post, and I like Cory O'Connor, he knows that. He works his butt off. And, but he said downtown is on fire. That it's kicking ass. That's fine. But I asked the mayor to look at the big picture and get on down to 6th Street where my friend is about to close his damn restaurant down because people were stealing from him. And the video shows that. I love that there are new businesses and restaurants opening downtown, but they won't last if they have robberies. Just saying. Before I get to my guest, great. We're here at this amazing event at Shultz Ford, this backpack event. They've collected almost 7,000 backpacks headed towards 10. And one of the, they've got all this food. They've got pizza. They've got coffee. And they promised an ice cream truck. This is actually hilarious. So an ice cream truck broke down and it got towed in here. And there it is. Toad in. The thing broke down. They got a big tow truck to bring it in here. Meantime, Joseph Patrick Murphy. Good afternoon, my man. How are you? I'm great, Marty. Thanks for having me on.

Joseph Patrick Murphy is the best immigration lawyer that I know. I wanted to ask you about these shock gloves. The whole country is talking about. I spent $20 million and give agents shock gloves. Describe what they are and as an attorney who will be representing folks. They'll probably be used on what are you saying about this. I mean, I understand the problem law enforcement has. They've got to get these people under control. People are fighting with them and things of this nature. But a shock glove, that's Kafkaesque. You know, the concern here is that... Well, there's two main concerns. The one is that it doesn't seem like it'll do what you want in the sense that if you're trying to restrain somebody, introducing electricity into their body is going to make them harder to restrain. You know, the muscle works on electricity, and if you put enough muscle in there, it'll contract harder. potentially even break the person's bones with their own muscles, but more importantly, make them very strong. You're putting electricity into a muscle that's trying to fight you. So it's kind of, I mean, unless there's some specialized technology, and there may be, just putting electricity into someone's muscles that you're fighting with might not be the best idea. The second thing is a much more serious concern, and the concern is that it'll be used. to torture people. When you fire a taser, that's another electrical weapon, the taser cartridge explodes and, you know, the two little darts come out and introduce electricity into the person, but also a whole bunch of micro tags are ejected into the air and they're all around the site of the use of the taser. You can track it to whoever fired it. And of course that cartridge has to be replaced. If you grab somebody with a glove, all it's going to do is deplete the battery. There's no evidence generated. You could hold them even beyond the point of compliance because you're angry. People are human. I'm not suggesting officers are superhuman in any way with their subject to human failings, just like me. Yes. And they could maybe get angry at somebody and hold them a little longer than they need to just to teach them a lesson. And that's not right. That's not allowed. That's not a law enforcement. a legitimate law enforcement activity. So that's the concern. And you're going to get cases where people are complaining exactly that happened. And there's not going to be any way of defending against these allegations other than, no, I didn't. With a taser, you can tell it was fired. There's body cams. That's the other thing. We ought to get body cams on ice. If we're going to have these kind of interactions using electrical torture devices, you know, there ought to be body cams showing exactly how long this person was held where the electricity was applied. what parts of their body. The other thing too is that they're wearing gloves and there's just a little switch. There's no pulling a weapon or anything that you would know.

to see that this is coming. You know, it could be like the old joy buzzer, right? Just turn it on and shake somebody's hand. But all these things together, I'm not sure this is the best idea in the world. It gives people the creeps. And that's not a nice place, especially for an agency that has a job. It does have a job. And the job has then been voted on. But there's a lot of disagreement over methods and tactics. We have a couple, you know, we talked about it on this show. There have been a couple unfortunate incidents where... Even American citizens were killed during ice operations. I'm not saying that's all chargeable to ice or all chargeable to citizens, but this is a PR problem. Gearing up with electro-shock gloves might not be the best PR move in history right now. Yeah. Hey, a couple things. Patrick, you've done a little research on the gloves, and I've asked a couple of ice agents, they're saying they're more subtle might be the right word. than a taser, less electricity and less painful. You're seeing the same thing, Patrick? Yeah, that is what I've seen so far in looking at some of the research on this. It's a lot less voltage than a taser. It's supposedly safer. And you're right, they don't have to, you know, shoot them. They're not shooting any darts or any prongs coming out. It's instant touch like a stun gun would be, except it's, you know, in the grip of the officer using it. Hey, Joseph Patrick Murphy. They don't have them in town here yet from what I've heard. Have you heard anything different, sir? I haven't heard anything about these sorts of things being deployed, but they're out there. I mean, I've seen pictures of the things, and I'll certainly report in when it happens. I don't know how much electricity anybody wants in their body. A nicer way of doing a nasty thing. Okay, I'll take that. But somebody's going to get hurt here again. People have pacemakers. They have metal joint replacement parts. This is all very, very dangerous. Hey, before you go, You mentioned something in terms of semantics and how they're managing your hearings. And I think it's actually interesting in how you presented this and what happens now regarding hearings with cameras. You mean the immigration? Yes. So what they've done is Pittsburgh is in what's called the Philadelphia Immigration District. We never really had our own immigration court. Back in the day, judges used to come out here in person, maybe every couple months, and you'd go to a real courtroom in the federal building, and they could look at your client, you could hand them evidence, things like that. After 9-11, they created that big thing in that 3,000 Sydney Street.

all immigration stuff was in there people were swearing in getting arrested applying for work permits everything was even immigration court was in there after covid they switched to virtual so just like i'm doing this now on my iphone a lot of people came in and we even have a little room in here it's like a little tv studio i was on it this morning with immigration court So that's great because the whole reason we created these kind of sub-district, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh sub-district of Philadelphia, was because people weren't going and they were getting deport orders. It's 300 miles each way. Who wants to do that for a 10-minute hearing? So now we, and I'll tell you something else, as part of a deal with immigration court, when they closed the south side office, they promised us that Pittsburgh would be able to have these remote appearances by televideo. I had the press release here someplace and all my papers on my, it's a lot of paper on my desk right now. But they've taken that away. Suddenly out of the blue sky with no notice, the online status and hearings, now say in person in Philadelphia. And holy hell is breaking loose. None of these people want to drive out there. None of these people want to go to a court where they could be arrested. None of these people have paid me to take a whole day off to go back and forth to Philadelphia, gas, tolls, or airfare. Where's that money going to come from? And they got to transport themselves, too. So you've got clients, you know, and it's doing exactly what it did before they started with the sub-district here. It's getting people to not go. And that's unfortunate. They're going to miss court hearings. Oh, hold on. Let me jump here. And I assume, I think you assume this is a tactic to get these people physically in court so they can arrest them. Is that fair? Or to get them to not come so they or to get them to not come so they can enter deport orders. Not everybody, very few people actually get arrested in court. I mean, clearly, if you've got a deport order and you're here illegally in the country and you show up in court, they're going to grab you. But most of the time, they're going to give you your hearings and due process. But they can complicate getting your due process. They can say, well, it's a little bit of immigration district. You got to drive 300 miles. I'm not kidding. I've got cases right now where there's a 10-minute hearing, and they want me to drive. And the clients don't want to pay for it, right? The clients get upset. Then they say, well, just give me my money back. And I said, well, I give you your money back. We've done some work. We'll give most of it back. But what are you going to do about this? And they're not going to go. And that's exactly what was happening before. I think it was like the late 60s when they started with judges coming out here. And they want it to be that one. There's no other real reason to do this. I mean, we've got smart watches, iPhones, virtual this. They had the technology in 2002 when they built the office in Southside to have like that simulcast where there was a room over there by televideo. So what's the point in doing this other than just meanness to these people? And really, honestly, at a certain point, the lawyers who are engineering this stuff.

they're kind of betraying their duties to their own profession. I, you know, I've said this to lawyers who got a little bit out of line with me in the past younger guys, whatever. I said, look, brother, this client, this case will come and go. You and I are going to be here working together for the rest of our lives. Are you sure you want to do it that way? Sometimes people can be talked down off a ledge with simple reasoning like that. Amazing. Some people don't know. Hey, before you go, one of my boys is texting me. This is actually so spot on. I'm too stupid to realize it. The purpose of tasers is not to come in contact with a combative resisting person. Right. Right. So these stun guns, these stun gloves defeat the purpose. Right. So now they have to make contact. And that's the whole point of having the taser in the first place. Right. And when you look at people that are doing something, they say like the objective is to get these people under control, but what they're doing isn't even reasonably calculated to achieve that result for the reasons I've stated. You're trying to get someone to stop fighting and you're introducing electricity into their body. This makes no sense. So when you look at someone who's doing, saying they want one outcome and doing something that's likely to get the opposite outcome, you start looking at something called truthfulness. Yeah. And then people start making guesses. When it's clear you're being lied to and gaslighted, people start making guesses. Why might you want to have electric shock gloves? Sounds like you want to hold on to them and put electricity into them. And, you know, somebody's got to get out in front of this. There may be real reasons. But, you know, you and me talking on this show with Patrick about the different electricity levels, that's nice. And it is reassuring. But that's the public relations backlash that's going to happen from this. It's crazy. Yeah. No, no, no, no. This cop sending this info, at the point of the damn tasers, they can't make contact. This forces them and might even jeopardize the ICE agents. Wow. Right, right. And this is what I say. When you're doing something that's going to achieve, that's obviously going to achieve the opposite result than what you say your purpose is, that's called lying, or at least gaslighting. Yeah. Joseph Patrick Murphy, my brother. Thanks, my man. My pleasure, Marty. Nice seeing you. Wow.