Meet the Press NOW – May 6

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Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, and that was the closing bell on Wall Street, with markets seeing green up roughly 600 points about the possibility of a peace deal between the U.S. and Iran, with both sides today signaling potential signs of progress. Oil prices also falling below $100 a barrel today in hopes that a potential deal could reopen the Strait of Hormuz. That's where, of course, 20 percent of the world's oil and gas, low through. Gas prices just to the new high of the war, $4.54 a gallon. But in the last 24 hours, President Trump has offered mixed messages about where things stand, telling NBC's Garrett Haik during an event in the Oval Office this afternoon, he believes Iran wants to make a deal, but also, the U.S. has won the fight. You're facing an opponent right now in Iran that has refused to

submit. You seem optimistic now. You may be closer to a deal. What's different about this moment now than in other moments where a deal has seemed close? Well, why do you say they refuse to submit? You don't know that. You don't know what's going. They were firing on U.S. ships a few days ago. Yeah, a few days ago, it's a long time ago. You know, in the world of war, a few days ago, no, they want to make a deal badly. And we'll see if we get there. If we get there, they can't have nuclear weapons, you know, it's very simple. But what's not to submit? And their leaders are all dead. So I think we won. Now, we have to.

get what we have to get. If we don't do that, we'll have to go a big step further. But with that being said, they want to make a deal. We've had very good talks over the last 24 hours. And it's very possible that we'll make a deal. It's not going to death a lot. What do you expect to hear about it? Never a deadline. It'll happen. It'll happen. It'll happen. But never again. In a post on social media this morning, President Trump warning Tehran, if it doesn't agree to a deal, quote, the bombing starts and it will be sadly at a much higher level and intensity than it was before. For its part, Iran says it is reviewing the U.S. proposal but has yet to convey its response to Pakistani mediators.

All of this comes after President Trump announced yesterday he was pausing Project Freedom. That's the U.S. military operation to guide vessels through the Strait of Hormuz, just two days into the operation. The president's top economic advisor trying to explain that decision today. The president showed with his resolve that we were willing to start escorting ships through. And I think that that was maybe the thing that pushed the Iranians one step closer to making a deal. I could tell you that I was walking around and out of the building yesterday seeing a lot of action in the situation room with negotiators. And it looked like the mood was high. It looked like the mood was high.

We'll have to see what happens. You never know with the Iranians. But absolutely, it looks like the folks that are negotiating these things. seem to be feeling like they're making a lot of progress right now. Despite that optimism from the administration, the war remains unpopular with the president underwater on his handling of the war as well as his handling of the economy. The economic dissatisfaction in part driven by rising gas prices, with 63% of Americans blaming President Trump for the increase in prices.

That includes almost a third of Republicans. Joining me now is NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba. NBC News Senior National Security correspondent, Courtney Kubi, and Ken Pollock, Vice President for Policy at the Middle East Institute. Thanks to all of you for joining us for starting us off. Monica, let me start with you at the White House. What are you hearing from your sources about the status of peace negotiations at this hour? Well, Kristen, there is a sort of sense of optimism, but it's something that I have to say we have heard time and time again

throughout the course of this 10-week conflict where it appears like the administration wants to project. that there is perhaps more progress than there actually is. That is what this moment feels like. But the president, again, is saying he believes there has been progress over the last 24 hours. He believes Iran wants to make a deal very badly, though we should say that whenever the president has said that, in recent weeks, there have been signs from Iran that really point to the opposite, where they have maintained and been quite resilient and quite defiant. So whether this time is different, that is the real question. But it does appear as if the president is important. applying that there is a discussion over these multi-point plans that we have been talking about

again for weeks, but the real central issue here is what might be different this time. And the president said, again, he feels that he's going to be able to solve this potentially through negotiation, but at the same time and in the same breath is continuing to make these threats and potentially considering resuming major combat operations. So it does still seem to be a juncture that we've been at before only for the president to make that threat back. down from it again, say that then in-person negotiations maybe need to take place, and then this process sort of all starts all over again. It feels like we're in that moment, even though the difference here, Kristen, is that the president is saying it's unlikely that he will send his son-in-law,

Jared Kushner and special envoy, Steve Whitcock, for any kind of in-person talks right now. It seems like all of this is happening more behind the scenes. Well, Monica, let me follow up with you on these multi-part potential plans that are coming together. what do you know about what's in them? What would a potential agreement look like at this point, Mon? And according to the president, it has been what he has said from the beginning of this, that for the U.S., from the U.S. perspective, Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, that it needs to abandon its nuclear programs. There is a lot riding on whatever Iran and the U.S. may agree to when it comes to the enriched uranium. As for today, our own colleague, Kelly O'Donnell,

asked the president what the plan was going to be for the enriched uranium in terms of getting it out of Iran. The president told her, quote, we're going to get it when Kelly followed up and said, but how, Mr. President, would that work? He simply repeated, we're going to get it. So that is still a major sticking point that is likely to be the subject of a lot of conversation, as well as whatever happens with the Strait of Hormuz, the timing of all this. And we should just remind everybody that back when the JCPOA, when that nuclear deal was negotiated with Iran, ago, that process took so much time. This is not the kind of thing that can really be hashed out in a matter of days. It's a much longer process. So is this the potential beginning of that?

It's also unclear, but that certainly seems to be what the administration wants people to think. Again, we've been here before, only for that to pretty much collapse. Krista. Yeah, absolutely, Mon. And of course, all of this happening, gas prices continue to take up there. There are hovering close to $5 a gallon, as we mentioned. The majority of a Americans blame President Trump for that increased price at the pump. The president's also set to leave on that trip to China next week. How does all of this, Monica, factor into some of the pressure that's building on the president to bring this war to an end?

And there is an absolute awareness on both of those fronts, and they are major factors in any conversation and any discussion that the president is having around the war. Specifically, when you talk about that trip to Beijing, the president is supposed to be leaving about a week from now. and I am told that is such a priority for the administration that they are basically trying to ensure that everything goes according to plan that the president is going to be able to go on that trip. Remember, he already had to postpone it and move it once because of the war against Iran. So for now, that is a factor we know in these discussions. And certainly that is something that has contributed to the president's timeline here, the way he's making these decisions. And certainly when posed to the White House about whether they would like this all to be wrapped up before he leaves for China, the president's said, yes, that would be ideal, but in terms of how that would actually work, that's a far more complicated question. All right, Monica Alba covering a lot of ground force and starting us off today. Monica, as always, thank you so much. Courtney Kubi, let me turn to you. So of course, we've been

talking about these tensions that are increasing in the Strait of Formuz and the Pentagon today saying it fired on a ship that it believed was violating the U.S. blockade. What do we know about that? And how does that fit into this broader picture? So that answers one question. The blockade is definitely still in effect by the U.S. military. It was an Iranian flag tanker that was making its way through the Strait of Hormuz. The U.S. military reached out to it several times. They said, hey, you're in violation of the blockade. You better turn back around. They didn't do so. This is the first time that we're aware of anyway during this blockade where the U.S. in this case launched an F-18 off the USS Abraham Lincoln, and it actually fired its cannon guns and took out the rudder of that ship that the U.S. said was in

violation of the blockade. So it was able, it's no longer headed towards the port in Iran, according to U.S. Central Command. That's the first time that we're aware of where there's actually been a fighter jet that's taken out the ship as opposed to other ways that they're firing directly from the ship down onto the ship that's in violation of the blockade. Well, it's just so significant because that's the focus of so much of the tensions that have been building. Secretary Pete Hegseth had said yesterday that hundreds of ships are lining up to transit the Strait of Hermuss. And then President Trump paused the program. what's behind the thinking of pausing this? Yeah, that's been the big question that we've been trying to figure out.

It's not a secret that this was a surprise to a lot of people who were involved. We do know that there were ships that were lined up both physically and sort of getting ready to get in line to make their way through that passageway. As far as we know, the U.S. has only announced or acknowledged that they brought two U.S. flagships through that passageway. That was on Monday. We're not aware of any that actually went through yesterday. day. But the U.S. military was definitely ready to continue this and make this a passageway where they would bring ships through for the foreseeable future. It was cut off. I mean, only, what, 36 hours into it, so only the two got through that we're aware of. Wow. And you have new reporting about

that? What work can you tell us? Yeah, we were trying to figure out ever since President Trump announced this on social media on Sunday afternoon, exactly what this was going to look like, even though it was somewhat short-lived. A U.S. official told us today that, In fact, it's paused right now. It's not actually clear that it's not going to potentially restart at some point, but for now they're calling it paused. We knew that this involved U.S. Navy ships that were somewhere inside the Gulf, somewhere in the Gulf of Oman. We knew that there were aircraft that were involved, that were sort of flying overwatch as the ships would make their way through the passageway. We know that the U.S. military was involved with drones and

robotics that were clearing the way of any potential minds in advance of this all starting. But what we learned yesterday is that, in fact, the U.S. military also embarked U.S. military security teams on those first two ships that went through. They were marine security elements. And that just shows how seriously they were taking this. And also, it really ups the potential danger for the U.S. military because we know now that both of those ships took fire in the form of Iranian cruise missiles, Iranian drones, and that at least six Iranian small fast boats were making their way towards those ships, threatening them as they were making their transit. Wow. All right. Courtney, a lot to keep track of. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Ken, let me turn to you. So the Trump administration, as Monica was laying out, appears to be striking a note of optimism about these peace negotiations. But obviously, there's plenty of reason to be pessimistic. President says Iran wants to make a deal. But it seems like they're leaning towards this short-term solution. How does that address the broader problem of Iran's nuclear program?

Thank you very much. Apologies. You'd think by now I'd have learned to unmute myself. So first, I think that Monica's skepticism is well warrant. We've heard this from the Trump administration before. Let's also recognize the Iranian regime is badly divided, to say the least. We've heard all kinds of voices there. It's not entirely clear who is in charge, although so far,

we've mostly seen the hardliners as the ones who have been making the decisions out there. And so I think that we have to take all of this with more than a few grains of salt. That said, there are reasons out there that I think that we can say that this might actually be a moment where we could get a deal. I'll come to the nuclear issue in just a moment. But, you know, it's worth recognizing on the pro side for the United States, yes, the U.S. military seems to have gotten to a point where they can protect ship. coming through the Strait of Hormuz. That's going to be very frightening to the Iranians. On the con side, the Iranians may be behind the scenes blackmailing our Gulf allies.

If they're willing to pay to have ships go through, even if surreptitiously, that would be good for Iran, very bad for us. And then a last factor we should consider the Chinese. The Chinese are clearly putting a lot of pressure on the Iranians. They may be putting pressure on us as well. That's a mixed bag. but that too may be ultimately bringing us to some kind of an agreement, at least on the straight. As for the nuclear program, as you point out, it's just not clear what we're actually going to get. The U.S., the Iranians seem pretty far apart on that.

And for President Trump, this is ultimately what that war was about. If the United States can't actually get a deal that deals with Iran's nuclear program with a long term, that may not be a satisfactory end to this one. Well, it'll be fascinated to see what develops with any negotiations over the next 48, 72 hours. Let me ask you, because according to analysts at S&P, zero ships have transited the Strait of Ramos today. What do you make of the president's decision to pause that operation to guide vessels through the strait? What are the implications of that? Well, first question, I'm as mystified as anybody else.

So I don't know exactly what's going on. Again, I can certainly create a narrative whereby the Iranians may have gone very quickly to the Pakistanis and said, you know what, we like the latest proposal from the United States. We like it enough that we're close to saying yes, but just ask the president to pause Operation Project Freedom and we'll get back to him. We'll take that as a sign of his seriousness if he's willing to do so. And again, because the U.S. Navy and I think the entire U.S. government actually does feel like project freedom really is doing its job, right? That this may be a real game change in the Strait of Hormuz. I suspect that they were willing to take that pause to see if the Iranians are actually serious. And Ken, just quickly, before I let you go, do you see any evidence of Iran's nuclear program having been, as President Trump said, obliterated or significantly weakened?

So, but no one actually knows, because, of course, it strikes back in June, theory the vast majority of the program. And, you know, we just haven't had the kind of inspections that we would need to know for certain. That said, there is a high degree of confidence among, you know, a whole wide variety of experts all over the world, believe that ultimately, yes, the program was extensively buried. the enriched uranium is buried. But that also, of course, creates the questions around, well, then why did we feel the need to start this war

if the Iranian nuclear program had been so badly set back, which everyone seemed to believe it was. All right. Brian Kemp Pollack, thank you so much for your insights and great information today. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Coming up, President Trump and his allies ousted

at least five prominent incumbent Indiana Republicans in last night's primaries. as revenge for not supporting the president's redistricting agenda. We're on the ground in Indiana with the reaction and what it means for the Republican Party. Plus, Steve Kornacki, is at the big board tracking all of last night's election results in real time and what they mean for November's midterm races. You don't want to miss his analysis.

That's next. You're watching Meet the Press now. I just bought a new automobile the same way they did in the 1900s when movies were silent. Wow. Well, I just got this Jeep from Flexcar. All my smackeroo's go to paying off the hefty value this little gas buggy lost the second I chugged out of the dealership. Toot, to Tute, too. Okay, well, Flexcar includes maintenance and insurance, and I can switch to an Fon 50 or Mercedes anytime. What are you high on giggle juice?

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Hey, everyone, it's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called The Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun. The Morgan Stewart Show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcast or watch full video on YouTube. Welcome back. If it's Wednesday, we have election results, including the closely watched Republican State Senate primaries in Indiana, where five of the seven incumbents who opposed the president's redistricting push were defeated. by Trump-back challengers. At this hour, State Senator Greg Good is the only one projected to hold

onto his seat, with the final incumbents still locked in a tight race, separated by just a handful of votes. That race is still too close to call. Join me now is NBC News, Chief Data analyst Steve Kornacki and Shaquille Brewster on the ground in Indiana. Steve, let me start with you. Walk us through last night's results and what we know about the remaining uncalled race there. Yeah, let's take a look, Kristen. Here is the map here. highlighting the districts here in Indiana that Trump had targeted here where Republican state senators had voted against him on that bid to redraw the state's congressional office. Where you see that pink color, that means those state senators lost. The Trump side won. And the margins where this happened generally were landslides. This is Lake County here.

This is basically the Chicago suburbs. Republican incumbent here was absolutely clobbered who had voted against that redistricting plan. A loss here. This is another state senator who was defeated. Trump endorsing the challenger. This was a member of state Senate leadership, Republican leadership, who opposed Trump, who got beaten by the Trump back candidate. It was a landslide here. It was a landslide here. By the way, this is also, this district right here is a Republican state senator who voted against redistricting and who got drummed out last night. Trump, for reasons that are not well understood, did not actually endorse the opponent here, but it seems the Republican voters there understood the dynamics, the way they did in all these districts and voted out that incumbent anyway. So as you can say, as you said, there was one who survived

down here in Tara Ho, one incumbent who defied Trump who survived. And then there's this one outstanding race. So the Trump forces in these, of these eight incumbents, six of them have been defeated. One survives. And then one's fate is still to be determined. And we can just zoom in here and show you that. I thought we could just zoom in here. Here we go. And show you that race right here. I mean, it doesn't get much closer than this, but it's three points. Spencer Deary is the incumbent Paula Copenhagenaver is the challenger. You're talking about West Lafayette where Purdue is some rural areas. And basically what's happening here is we're just trying to figure out how many provisional ballots there might be here. We're talking about potentially a dozen,

two dozen ballots, something like that. Obviously with the margin that close, this is not something we're going to be in a hurry to call. But this is the one incumbent, you know, left here who has a chance of hanging on potentially. So it's either going to be seven for eight or six for the Trump side. And in that sense, the outcome of this almost doesn't matter because the message that comes through from the Trump side, very clear after this. Steve, I can't remember the last time we saw a race separated by three votes. That's just astounding. I think you're right. We'll take our time before we call that one. Let me ask you about Democrats. They continue to overperform, including a Michigan state special election. Tell us more about that. Yeah, I mean, this has been the

story of Trump's second term. When we've had these special elections, when I say special election, You're talking about like not in November low turnout, only the most committed go to the polls. And the Democrats, the Democratic base has been more committed in those elections than the Republican base. They keep doing much better than they did in 2024. It continued last night. This was a special election for a state Senate district in Michigan. You can see here this, Democrats had held this seat and they continue to hold it by a landslide here. Again, this is consistent with what we've seen in all these other special elections.

The significance of this one is it preserves Democratic control of the state Senate in Michigan. With a win here, Republicans could have moved into a tie. Instead, the Democrats win, they win in the landslide. And again, it's just that story we've seen here, that Democratic base, there's a component of that base that is clearly showing it wants to turn out in any and every election. It's very motivated. It's very plugged in right now. And when Donald Trump isn't on the ballot in these low turnout special elections, the Republican base,

you're just not seeing that same level of enthusiasm. so we keep seeing results like this in special elections. Remarkable. All right, Steve Kornacki, as always, thank you so much for the breakdown. We really appreciate it. Shack, let me turn to you. You're on the ground there. You actually spoke to one of the Trump Act winners, Trevor DeVries, before polls closed last night. How did he describe the president's influence on the race to you? Well, he said it's a big factor, Kristen. And just to kind of paint the picture a little bit, This was minutes before polls were closing and set to close, and he was still handing out flyers to people who were going into the polling locations.

But you can tell from his body language how confident he was feeling. He knew he was in for a good night. He suspected that other challengers in these primary races were in for good nights. And he was right. And he won his race by more than 50 points. And for some color on the ground, when you look at his lawn signs that have been around this district, he had Trump's name on top, and then it said Trump endorses DeVries. So that just gives you a sense of how much he leaned into that endorsement. So I asked him right before polls are closing, what do these Senate

races say about President Trump's influence here in Indiana? Listen here. He's the sitting active president of the free world at the end of the day. It's an honor and a privilege to be endorsed by President Trump. And really, he's been the driving force in Republican Party. for the past 10 years at this point. I mean, he's one helping push for change and helping reform a lot of the things that people are upset about and have been disenfranchised

by the political systems over the past couple decades. So him, he won our district heavily and he's going to continue to move the needle in Northwest Indiana. It's a fire incumbent season right now, and people are just tired of feeling like they're being left out.

Now, one of the incumbents who was fired in another district said that this was about retribution and retaliation. You had another Senate leader who's on the opposite side, a Republican, but kind of gets some heat from President Trump and other Republican leaders here. He said that it's about the outside money that came into these local state Senate races. But look, this was a good night for President Trump and his allies. They got nearly exactly what they wanted and what they were expecting heading into this primary,

Kristen. All right. Thanks for bringing us that interview. you and that breakdown of the results overnight, Steve and Shaq really appreciated. And joining me now on the phone is one of the Indiana lawmakers who lost his reelection bid, State Senator Greg Walker. Thank you so much for joining us, sir. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. I want to start by just getting your reaction to last night's results, not just for you, but for your other colleagues who were defeated. So I think many of us were surprised at the

strength of the Trump endorsement. I've served my district well for 20 years. We have other long-term incumbents that we're feeling positive, that we're getting a lot of good reinforcement from people we talked to. I had an amazing volunteer team, and we felt confident that our message was getting out, that Indiana is Indiana. And there were actions on the part of the Oval Office where they have no jurisdiction over choosing election maps for the state. That's our responsibility, and we can act on that as we cease it for the constituents that we serve. And I was receiving 90% approval of support for rejecting midterm redistricting from my district. And it was from across the political spectrum.

There have been many Republicans that told me how turned off they were by the pressure on the President of the United States to where we had members that were being swatted, myself included, bond threats, et cetera. And it was just that sense of force and coercion and authoritarianism that really struck a bad tone in the Indiana Senate. So I do have to ask you, do you regret anything about voting against redistricting? It sounds like you don't, but I want to just let you say it. I made the right choice. My very first words, when I heard of this, was this is ridiculous. And this will bow. And clearly on the national level, it has been a backfire. There have been no groundswell of

Republican drafted seats. But given the climate of the nation, Indiana's current seven and two breakdown of the congressional delegation could very well be a six or three once we reduce some of the margins of safety in some of these districts. That clearly is room for two Democrats congressman to represent the citizens of the state of Indiana, and they were elected by their peers. And I just, having heard the testimony and seeing the map itself, felt so strongly that Hoosiers were best served when we did our responsibility to the best of our ability. I believe the final bill was even unconstitutional in two different ways. And that apparently didn't ring a note with many who supported it. So it's an unexpected result, but I'm not upset about it, at least for me.

Let me ask you, do you think there are broader implications or lessons for the Republican Party as November approaches? Oh, yes. I think this was meant to be a clear message of retribution. I have described myself as a pawn on the chess board of the Indiana Senate, trying to protect my king. And that's the pro tem, Rod Bray, a man of good character, great character, great leadership, who can count. He didn't twist arms. He didn't try to force votes. And he knew this was such a personal issue for each one of us,

where we had various reasons why we supported or rejected it. But it's clearly meant to be a message sent to the nation. that you will pay a dear price. And I have to ask folks that voted here in District 41 or anyone in the nation. Do you think that Indiana serves better when we're under coercion and threat, or do you think we serve better as legislators when we're allowed to have our own cognitive abilities and reason things out and use our best judgment? How do you think we're best served?

And I think as you look at the approval level of Congress, that probably gives you the answer you need. It's a land of hyper-partisanship and threats of primaries constantly in all the whole power. And that's no way to govern. Do you think that the influence that President Trump showed in Indiana, in your race and other races there, do you anticipate that will be replicated in the midterms? Or do you think that these races in other states are more complicated at the statewide level? Well, for one thing, at some point, to run out of money, $9 million was spent attacking from within the Republican Party, you would think some of those funds might be useful to incumbents in Congress that would like to run for re-election that currently represents a Republican Party. But I think because they will be interpreted as a success on the part of the local office that they'll do everything within their power to replicate it.

But it's consistent with model, and that's my point. It's anyone that stands up and says, we don't agree with the president, you're a rhino, you're a loser, whether he appointed his own cabinet members or had those in his own legislative party or judiciary, it's the same tired tune of rhino loser. And I don't understand why it continues to be affected. We can't all be right and one person wrong, can we? Can the whole nation be wrong and one person right? I don't think that's possible. Well, we certainly appreciate you're joining us to give us your perspective and your reaction a day after these races. State Senator Greg Walker, thank you so much for your time today.

Really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. Take care. You too. Please take care. Coming up next, we'll dive deeper into the political fallout from last night's elections. As new polling shows the president and his party losing ground with voters in the battle for the midterms, the panel joins me. Right after a quick break, stay with us on Meet the Press Now.

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all on the app. Download today. Welcome back. The president's approval rating remains underwater across a slate of recent polls. A new polling shows Democrats with a midterm edge. According to a new NPR PBS mayor's poll, voters say they are more likely to vote for the Democratic candidate in this year's midterms. Democrats also have an edge when it comes to which party's voters are the most enthusiastic about voting, though Republicans catch up when somewhat enthusiastic voters are. included. Joining me now is our panel, Kate Santillese, congressional reporter at Axios, Antoine Seyright, Democratic strategist, and founder and CEO of Blueprint Strategies, and Rob Blue,

president and executive editor of The Daily Signal. Thanks to all of you for being here. Kate, I want to start with you. Let's talk about these results out of Indiana. Some people calling them the first stop of President Trump's retribution tour. Obviously, he was targeting these lawmakers who opposed his redistricting effort in Indiana, you just heard from State Senator Greg Walker defiant, unapologetic about opposing the president's redistricting plan. But what are you hearing from lawmakers here? What are they reading into the results last night? I think what these results show is that President Trump's influence over the Republican Party still remains strong. I think we've seen a lot of coverage over the last

few months about how the MAGA base is fractured or divided. But the fact that five out of these seven State Senate candidates, five of them that had Trump-backed challengers lost their races, that's not a really great sign for that argument anymore. So we know that President Trump and his team spent over $13 million on these races. And these are races that typically don't garner national attention. They don't garner that kind of money. But it shows that if Trump wants something done, he's going to get it done. And it also sends a message to other Republicans if you go against the president, there's going to be consequences for that. So that's a warning sign for lawmakers like Thomas Massie, Senator Bill Cassidy, who are both coming up in primaries with Trump-back challengers. Yeah, how is a Bill Cassidy or a Thomas Massie looking at the results last night? I mean, $13 million is a lot of money. They have a lot of money to spend in their races as well in a lot of groups who are supporting them. And Kristen, you know as well as I do that incumbents just naturally have the advantage in a lot of these races because the name ID and everything else that goes into incumbency. And so in both of the cases that you mentioned, I think Thomas Massie's counting on the fact that he has a constituent relations team that has probably helped bolster his image in that particular. district. But ultimately, I think what you're seeing not only is the president's influence, but you're seeing the grassroots conservatives and Republican voters wanting people who are going to fight. They're frustrated by what happened in California with Gavin Newsom's redistricting. They're frustrated with what happened in Virginia. And they say, why aren't these Republican lawmakers

standing up and trying to create a level playing field? Anton. Respectfully, Rob, California and Virginia, the people made their decision by casting their votes at a ballot box a lot different than what was. trying to take place in Indiana and other places where Republicans re-drew them at. But there's some underlining things I think we have to look at with Indiana. One, $13 million is a lot of money for state legislative races that usually garner a couple hundred thousand dollars. I'm not saying that Trump has not hijacked the Republican Party and have turned it into the mega extremists.

What I am saying is that every race is different. I would also add that in a primary election, you get some of the more activated and extreme voices who participate. That's not a true sample size of the entire spectrum of the electorate. And I would say from a southern state like South Carolina, when you vote in a Republican or a Democratic primary, most of the time, that's the only chance you have to have your voices heard. So the dynamics are a little bit different. I think we have a lot more ball to play before we make an assumption about how the game is going to play out. Rob, you want to respond to that? I see you.

I don't disagree that the primaries often are, given the way that the districts are drawn, the time for voters to cast their ballot. And it's often when you see those conservatives or liberals come out. But ultimately, I think that what it sends the message that you are talking about is that as these other states consider redistricting, whether it be a South Carolina or Florida or wherever the case may be, they are going to feel that pressure to follow what the president is wanting them to do. But more and more people are becoming independent thinkers. And a lot of people do not want to be guilty by association. So that means if you vote in the Republican primary, you're considered one of the mega extremists. And a lot of people do not want that tag on their clothing, if you will, going into a general election where more and more people want to separate from the modern-day Republican Party. Kate, let's talk about the broader backdrop here to the midterms.

The fact that you still have this war in Iran ongoing, it has dragged down the president's approval rating. The latest is this NPR PBS mayor's poll, which I think we can show you. It shows just how unpopular the president is, 59 percent disapprove. of the president right now in that poll. Pew found 64% disapprove, Washington Post ABC, 62% disapprove. These are bleak numbers heading into the midterms for the president and this party. Yeah, I would have to agree. I don't think this is a great sign for President Trump or for congressional Republicans who have been begging him to talk about the economy, talk about affordability, tout the wins that they got in the one big beautiful bill that passed last year. But Trump has been

increasingly preoccupied, especially with the war in Iran, which, as we know, has caused these high gas prices that voters are unhappy with. So congressional Republicans, among them, there's a lot of anxiety right now about whether they can run on the economy, whether they need to do more, a second reconciliation bill that focuses just on affordability measures. But as you know, that's a really steep ask. They're working on a tight timeline. It's not going to be easy to get done, but there's a lot of anxiety among them right now about this. Rob, Kate brings up the point about Republicans wanting to be focused on the economy. Take a look at how many people blame President Trump for these high gas prices. Sixty-nine percent, 63 percent of respondents say they blame President Trump for these high gas prices. Is there enough time for Republicans to shift the narrative? We're not in the summer months yet. That's a good point, yes. We can't remember what happened back in February. Such a short attention span as the American people these days. So yes, I think the president is counting on the fact that hopefully the American people will.

be focused on something else come voting time in the fall. The president's numbers, I should point out, are not that different from the Democratic Party's disapproval numbers either, as all of those polls you inside. So Antoine can come back to me on that. But I want to just pick up on the reconciliation point. I think that now is the most important time for congressional Republicans to be putting forward a positive agenda that's focusing on a lot of those domestic issues, namely energy and the cost of gasoline and whatever they can do, they need to get it done. Rob, in reality, See, magonomics has been a failure. Voters are expressing their disappointment by way of feelinomics, economics they can feel.

What about this point, though, that Rob makes, which is the Democratic Party is as unpopular as Trump? That may be true, but it's the people that they will vote for on the ballot in November, not a party. And what you will find is when Democrats stay messes discipline on an economic agenda that speaks to the failures of the Republican majority, including on health care, utility prices, gas prices, grocery prices, the cost of the basic necessities, we win that argument every seven days a week, 10 times a day. And I'm fine with having an economic discussion on that. But the other thing I would just remind, Rob, is that just like the 2018 cycle, healthcare is going to be a top dial in this cycle. You have 25 million Americans, 18.2 million Americans in red states who are paying higher premiums, co-pays, and deductibles because of the Republican majorities. lack of awareness to extend those ACA subsidies. That is going to make a difference in November.

And, Kate, there is a big debate inside the Democratic Party. Should it focus on economics? Should it focus on an anti-Trump message? What are you hearing about the contours of that? What I've heard from Democrats is a lot of them do want to focus on this economy message, and that's a public push that we've seen from them as well. They think that they can hit Republicans on high gas prices. They think that there are some flaws in the one big, beautiful bill that they can also hit them on. They think that didn't go far enough. And Republicans are also feeling confident that they can message on that really well, too. Some have acknowledged that there has been a little bit of flubbing there on the messaging side, not fully explaining what was in that. But it seems like both parties do you want to be talking about the economy right now. All right, guys. Unfortunately,

we're out of time. Great conversation, though. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Kate Antoine and Rob. Coming up after the break, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick on Capitol Hill, as he faces pressure to explain his changing stories about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, what we're learning about his testimony today to House investigators. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now.

Welcome back. The House Oversight Committee is now turning to a top Trump administration official for answers as part of its investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick testifying behind closed doors to, today, Howard Lutnick was a longtime neighbor of Epstein in Manhattan and has given shifting accounts of his interactions with the convicted sex offender, initially claiming that he had vowed in 2005 never to again be in the same room as Epstein, but the Justice Department's release of files then revealed that Howard Lutnick visited Epstein's private island in 2012. Secretary Howard Lutnick faced questions about his shifting accounts when testifying before the Senate in February.

Secretary Howard Lutnick, I think you understand the root of concern here. It's the way you described very emphatically your first encounter with him in his apartment, said you were disgusted, would never have any contact with him again. Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island? I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across. on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. I had another couple with, they were there as well with their children, and we had lunch on the island. That is true for an hour, and we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife, all together. We were on

family vacation. We were not apart to suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012. I don't recall why we did it. What Nick has denied any wrongdoing and he has not been accused of any impropriety tied to Epstein. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Sirkin joins me now. Julie, thanks so much for being here after a busy day on Capitol Hill. So what are oversight committee members saying about this closed door testimony to me? Well, like most things, Kristen, you're getting different narratives from the same people who are in that room. So Democrats came out.

A number of them were in there for this testimony. today, even though they're on recess, and they told us that Howard Lutnick's statements were flailing, that he was sweating, he had sweat on his brow because he appeared nervous in the room, that he really didn't give clear explanations for why he shifted his answers on his connections and relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Take a listen to a little bit of what we heard from Congressman Con, and then you'll hear Chairman Comer on the other side. Now we know why that interview was not videotape. If Donald Trump had seen the video transcript he would have fired Howard Lucknake.

It was really embarrassing. He was asked very straightforward questions about whether he regretted misleading the American people. It was just contortions and lies and no acknowledgement that he misled the American public. We asked some very substantive questions the first hour. The Democrats during their hour repeated the exact same questions

because there's only so many questions you can ask. asked Howard Lutnick, who lived, had a property next door to Epstein in New York, but talked to him three times over a decade. He was on the island with his family, with his wife and kids, six people in his family, and six people in his friend's family, for lunch for two hours. And he has admitted that. So, Kristen, the long and short of it is over four hours. Howard Lutnick sat behind closed doors. It doesn't seem like we really got anywhere with his testimony today. And the question now for Democrats is do they push to have a public hearing now? Well, and the other question you heard Congressman Ro Khanna reference the transcript. Will the transcript be made public? If so, when can you anticipate that happening? It will be made public as the other transcripts for the number of individuals that the committee had interviewed over the last few months has been made public as well. It will take a couple of weeks. They have a lot of lawyers pouring over these documents. But the one thing the public will not is a video version of his testimony. You heard Congressman Kahn allude to that in there. Chairman Comer's response to that is, look, Howard Lutnick appeared voluntarily. He was not subpoena.

We didn't have to depose him. And so our practice is not to record those individuals. And who else is expected to testify at this point, Julie? Well, the really big name that everybody's kind of waiting for on this committee is Pam Bondi, the former attorney general. She is somebody who sort of had oversight of this process in terms of these files, how they were handled, the back and forth that we saw, not just from Democrats, but also Republicans who really want to see her in that hot seat, even though she no longer has a role in this administration, she's expected to appear voluntarily for a transcribed interview at the end of May. Again, no video expected with that as well. But this committee's investigation is not, you know, closing down anytime soon.

They will continue to call people because they have that pressure, including from some of the president's voters. All right, Julie Sirkin, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. We do want to turn now to some sad news from the world of media. long-time media mogul and businessman Ted Turner has died after a long battle with a progressive form of dementia. Turner built a television empire back when cable TV was still in its infancy, and he transformed the way news and politics are covered, creating CNN, the country's first 24-hour news channel. His brash style and shrewd business acumen earned him several nicknames, including Captain Outrageous. NBC's Tom Brocah asked Turner about that style,

when he appeared on Meet the Press back in 2008. Throughout the course of your career, you have been known by a variety of nicknames, the mouth of the South. I don't like that one particularly. Captain outrageous. I don't mind that one. How much of that, however,

is a true expression of what you're feeling at the time and how much of that is a kind of a marketing device to draw attention to Ted Turner and all of his enterprises? I never used those terms to describe myself. they just, you know, sometimes you get hung with that sort of thing. Is that part of your... Is that part of your past now?

I would like to think so. Ted Turner was 87 years old. Welcome back. California politics will be front and center tonight with candidates for Los Angeles mayor and governor of California squaring off in a pair of debates tonight. night airing on our NBC station in Los Angeles. In the L.A. mayor oral race, Mayor Karen Bass, will face off against challengers, city council member Nithya Raman, and reality TV star Spencer Pratt. Then the seven top polling candidates for governor, both Democrat and Republican, will take

Yeah, it's a rich response from a guy who made his billions investing in fossil fuels, in oil camp companies, in coal companies. NBC News correspondent Dana Griffin joins me from Los Angeles. So, Dana, we saw the candidates mixing it up there. Of course, the backdrop to this, Eric Swalwell no longer in the race. What were the key takeaways last night? Yeah, so, Christian, I will say that at one point we thought that this was going to be a jumpball race, because after Eric Swalwell dropped out, it was unknown who was going to be the top contender. But I can tell you right now, there's a new poll out that shows the, that's from the California Democratic Party.

And it shows that Democrat Xavier Becerra and Republican Steve Hilton are now tied for first place in that race for governor, each with 18 percent support. The number of undecided voters has dropped from 24 percent in March to about 14 percent. which is a clear sign that voters are paying attention to this race. And then you've got the Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco at 14% and billionaire Tom Steyer at 12%. So it is leaving this race pretty unpredictable. And they sparred over the biggest issues that are plaguing California from homelessness, cost of living, that billionaire tax proposed tax that is going to likely be on the November ballot.

And also public safety, which is a major concern for California. Kristen? Let's talk about the mayor's race. Now, this is a fascinating one. You have Mayor Karen Bass, as I said, she's facing off against Nithya Raman and Spencer Pratt, an unlikely candidate. But there he is. What are you going to be watching for on the debate stage tonight? I'm going to watch for what we expect to see, what we expect are going to be fireworks,

especially after this AI-generated parody video that Spencer Pratt reposted, showing him as Batman, and the leaders of the state and the city being tomatoed by some of the residents here in California. He's also getting some heat for another campaign ad. And let's take a quick look at that one. This is where Mayor Vass lives. You notice something? Or here where Nithya Raman's $3 million mansion sits. They don't have to live in the mess they've created where you live.

This is where I live. They let my home burn down. I know what the consequences of failed leadership are. That's why I'm running for mayor, for my sons and the rest of us, Angelinos, that want to stop these corrupt politicians from destroying our city. Now, Pratt was also grilled on a local radio station for that particular ad, some questioning whether he's painting the full story because he is, in fact, renting a home through his insurance benefits after his home burned down during the L.A. fire. So the question of wealth and if he's painting the full picture will likely come up. And I'm sure there will be lots of questions on all the other hot topics that are plaguing the city of L.A., which are similar to the state issues, which are affordability, the economy, crime, and also that major issue of homelessness.

Kristen? Absolutely. Dana Griffin, thank you for covering all of the critical races for us out in California. We really appreciate it. And you can watch the California gubernatorial debate presented by NBC Los Angeles in Telemundo 52 tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Pacific Time right here on NBC News Now. We are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press now. There's much more ahead on NBC News Now.

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