SportsDay Insider: Rangers hanging, Cowboys leading and a farewell to Nellie

This is the Dallas Morning News. Hey Washington, D.C., class it up with crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new Fave footwear? Step into a local crox store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest crock store today. Hello everybody. Welcome to Sports Day Insider presented by the Dallas Morning News. I am Kevin Sherrington, joined by my pal Evan Grant. We'll have Joe Hoyt on in a little while to talk about the Cowboys and Training Camp. It's a little earlier out there as we're taping this on Tuesday morning, so we like to give those guys a little chance to sleep, you know, before we put them on. And for now, we'll talk to Evan. Well, first before we talk to Evan, let's talk about my vacation. Sure. Talk about your vacation. What happened on your vacation, Kevin? Well, I know what happened around here. I mean, we had a fine show. Sean and I did. Just you and Sean? How'd that go? Pretty great. We talked about the Rangers, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't even miss you at all. I'm sure you did not. I'm sure you didn't. I'm just always just winging it. He's going with stuff. Who knows? How was your fine vacation dessert? Oh, we had a great time. We went to, no, we went to Hot Springs, Art. So it's where we always go, go to the lake, rent a house, rent a boat. The whole clan goes. The clan keeps getting bigger and bigger. And so that's very fun. We had a great time. A lot of fun. You rent a house and a boat? Yeah. How do money are these people paying? Well, you know, when you're a big timer like I am, you're drawing the big bucks, pal. House and a boat. Well, here's the deal. Our oldest son rents the boat, and we rent the house, Debbie, that'd be. And, you know, we're a two, we're a two-income family, you know, so. So until I called you on it, you were going to make it sound like you rented the house and the book. I said we. I believe you go back and check the pronouns. It was a we, not an I. I never say I. Never say I. I know where I rank on this trail. While I was gone, we had the passing of Don Nelson, one of the Mavericks, all-time greats. I would be writing a column, as we're taping this on Tuesday, about he and his son and the impact, his son, Donnie, and the impact they had on the organization. Pretty much, it was...

They're responsible for just about everything that the Mavericks did well. There were some things that didn't go well as well. But Don Nelson gave the organization some clarity. And it was, uh, it was lacking at the time. Everything turned around. And of course, because of the, because of his son, uh, Don Nelson also, uh, they didn't draft Dirk Nabitsky, but they traded for him in the draft. Uh, and that changed everything. Uh, also Steve Nash that, and that changed everything. They set them on the course to winning that first title, even though he wasn't the coach then. Uh, a very entertaining, uh, coach, an interesting guy. Um, We send our condolences out to the Nelson family. So now, I didn't ever get to know Don Nelson. Well, I didn't get to know him well either. You know, he was, at the point in his career, he arrived here. He was kind of like, I can do this or I can not do it. But he was a character, you know. Jody Valade, who covered the Mavericks for us. back in that era and she had just starting out and she posted on Facebook something that he had drawn up a play before half time of the game and she was sitting right there that's back when you could sit on press row you know and she's sitting right there and he autographed it and then handed it to her right during the game So I don't know that kind of thing happens very often. Of course, you remember the Hackashack stuff where the clown nose and all that. He came up with that. The Hackashack predated the NBA. I'm sorry. Well, not the NBA. Oh, you mean at LSU they were doing that? Yeah. Don DeVoe. Don DeVos invented the hackashack. Let's not give too much credit here. Well, yeah, that's like everything else. Everything else that was big and giving credit to somebody for, there was somebody else who did it before they did. But, yeah, I mean, I've seen lots of tributes. I saw stuff from David Moore about a party after a playoff game that involved Owen Wilson and various country music singers at Nellie's house that the media ended up at. He was definitely a character. And listen, I mean, going back to what? The late 70s or early 80s, I mean, he was a basketball innovator first and foremost. And the impact he had on this organization with the foresight between he and his son to get Dirk Novitsky here certainly was a franchise changing moment.

Yeah, it was. And he did some other things too, you know, and that's one of the things I'm going to write about. Just kind of just shook the franchise and said, hey, wake up. This is what you got to do. And that's what happened. And a lot of that credit goes to Mark Cuban for that as well. But mostly it was Don Nelson. I loved a picture that someone posted on Facebook of him. I'm sure it was in Maui playing golf barefoot. standing standing on a T-box barefoot and getting ready to swing away. He was a character. All right. Let's talk about these Rangers, Evan. In my absence, the trade deadline pretty much just came and went for the Rangers. And with nothing happening, of course, there was the... Jacob de Grom famously now, I guess, famously said, no, I'd rather stay with the Rangers. I don't want to go in a trade. Have you narrowed down to who the potential interest was from? Yeah, the Atlanta Braves. Atlanta Braves, okay. Narrated it right down there. You did narrow it down. Way to go. Put it down to that. Yeah, I guess up in Arkansas, the news doesn't reach up there. We weren't reading the news. We were having too good, too much fun. We don't want to read about the Rangers. Well, you weren't having a seven mar, a seven for heat. Never mind. Seven margarita, three fajita plate lunch all along Lovers Lane yesterday. Well, you're done to get that one in about your three fajita dinner or lunch. Wow, man. Three fajitas. Yesterday we tried three fajitas, three casos, and sipped on seven different margaritas for the big upcoming project with food. I'm glad that you know you're doing work over in the food section because, you know, you're working in the sports department. And, you know, you sit poor Sean McFarland off to cover the Rangers and the Angels. You know, he's out there mucking it up in Anaheim. And meanwhile, you're back here eating fajitas and drinking margaritas. He's very close to Disneyland, the happiest place on Earth. Yeah, that's true. That's a vacation. He's in Orange County. There are people associated with the Texas Rangers who would consider that to be pretty much paradise. They would? Like the manager who lives there in the offseason and the senior special assistant or senior advisor. who is also the all-time hits leader in Rangers history. That's true. Speaking of executives, Neil Leibman quit. What's that all about, Evan? I don't know if quits the right word. And I don't know if fired is the right word because Neil retains his ownership stake. But I think that there were, I think by and large, the central reason for this is Neil has.

he's for lack of a better term as as a investor he's got ADHD he's just got a lot of different interests and in money out there and he's got a lot of different projects including buzzer the ranger's new streaming platform um and so i think it was his his attention was divided somewhat um I don't know that this is tied to this, but Ray Davis's daughter, Chris, joined the board of directors two years ago. And I think she has become much more visible around the ballpark. And I don't know if Chris Davis is going to end up taking on a more significant day-to-day role. And third, you know, I... While I was told that this had nothing to do with the switch to buzzer or the abrupt leaving of victory, you know, Neil two years ago took over the whole RSN element of the Rangers. And while I believe the RSN production, the actual producing of the games has been successful. And the Rangers have done much more than a lot of teams that have gone with the MLB. or MLB network produced games. Rangers still have a full-fledged pregame show and a full-fledged post game show. I don't think the revenues have been where the Rangers thought they would be. And so I don't know if that would be labeled a quote unquote failure or a lack of accomplishment or it's just, you know, that this market, that the... at the bottom has completely fallen out of the TV broadcasting market, and there's no real way to actually approximate what you're going to get. So I think there's several different factors involved there. But, you know, since he still retains his ownership stake, it's a lot like Bob Simpson. You know, also, Neil was going through a divorce like Bob Simpson did. And so Bob still retains his ownership, although it's been diluted somewhat, Neil still retains his ownership. So he's just leaving the day-to-day operation. So we don't think this is any kind of feeling on Neil's part if Neil was just leaving on his own. Like, hey, I don't like the way the direction of the franchise is going. I mean, I think it was just described to me that this was amicable. That's the way it was described to me, and I haven't gotten anybody else to tell me anything more enlightening. Okay. All right. The morning news, me, reached out to both Neil Leibman and Ray Davis yesterday and did not receive phone calls in return. Yeah. All right. So back to the Jacob deGron thing. Did you ascertain what if the return would have been on Jacob deGrom trade? Had he agreed to that? No, I don't know what the, I do not know what the return would have been. It would have been, I believe, one of Atlanta's.

top pitching prospects, but which one I don't know. Yeah. There was a rumor or at least some thought initially that maybe Spencer Strider, who's out for the year and we don't know exactly what the long term is going to be on him, would have been part of the deal. But I was told that that was not the case. So it was a significant pitcher. I don't know if it was one for one. And that's why, you know. I know that there are millions of people out there listening to this podcast every week, and I just don't want to provide false information. So I don't want to throw out any names. Oh, sure. Let's start to throw out a few. I care about accuracy and journalism. Sometimes. Sometimes. Depending on the situation and the circumstances. Yeah. You know, look, I don't know. I don't know if another, you know, if a one for one does anything for me. You know, obviously, if it's a top prospect and sure, maybe. But. I don't know. That brings to the point of, so what to do with this team? I mean, it is a 500, as you've written several times, there's been a 500 team now for like 20 years, or it feels like. And so. You know, it doesn't seem to matter what they do or who they're playing. They find a way they get a little momentum up. They really start to play well. It looks really good. And then they just fall apart, you know, and go right back to what they were before. Just fairly with their noses above water. So, but I do think, you know. You cannot give up on this season just because I don't believe in the Astros, you know. So the Astros, as we're taping, as there are a half game in front of the Rangers, right? And they simply, and then they do handle the Rangers pretty well, but I just don't believe in them. I thought that Seattle was a team. And that's, that has to be, that has to get somebody fired with what's happened to the Mariners this year, right? So, um, I, I just think that, uh, You can't give up on it, and that means that you can't give up on Jacob de Gras. I mean, especially now with Nathan Nivaldi out, and that would make you think, well, then you should give up. You should run out the white flag. If Nathan Nivaldi is going to miss a month and maybe more than that, then what's your rotation going to be, right? Yeah, I mean, but the... Kevin, they got Cody Bradford back. The Jack Leiter is going to start a rehab assignment this week. Jim Jordan Montgomery is back, although the first outing wasn't great. So, you know, the story of the week last week was, well, now we finally got depth for the starting rotation. Well, the story of this week is that depth is going to be put to the test.

I don't know what the long-term solution, the long-term outcome is going to be with Avaldi. You know, his history has been that traditionally, in the best cases, he misses about a month. There is... Seven weeks left in the season right now. So if he misses the rest of August and comes back for September, that's a huge stretch drive. And then if you've got a healthy fresh Nathan Avaldi for the playoffs, we've seen what that is worth. I don't think from some reporting I did yesterday, I don't think that this is. you know, a ligament involved. I don't think that this is a Tommy John type of situation or anything quite that catastrophic. So we'll see what the future holds for him. Cody Bradford's start last week was really encouraging. And if the Rangers can't get through this week to start off without Evaldi, they've got bigger problems because they're playing the two worst teams in the American League. two teams who both traded away some pieces at the deadline. And it is, it's imperative for this team to win. And they should be able to, they should be able to beat these teams, plain and simple. They haven't had a great track record to doing that this year, but they should be able to beat these teams. And if they don't, I mean, this is their chance to make up. I want to say make up ground, but this is their chance to put pressure on the rest of the division. The rest of the division, on the Astros. The Rangers play three more games against Anaheim as we record this and then go to Sacramento for three. They need to go five and two on this road trip because the Astros next week have the exact same schedule only it's at home. They've got the A's and the Angels coming into Houston. And so you know they're going to, well, you would assume that they're going to crush those teams. So the Rangers need to keep pace right here. Yeah, they do. Although, you know, that first game and, you know, in Anaheim, they need 10 innings to win that game, you know, nine innings for one run. The Astros needed 10 innings and needed a run in the ninth to beat San Francisco last night. So, I mean. These are not great teams. The bottom line is neither of these are great teams. The one thing I keep coming back to on all of this that concerns me is the Houston Astros have the best player in the American League, maybe in baseball this year, in Yordon Alvarez. And that alone might be enough to carry them to the division title. Good. He's a very scary player, isn't he? He is a bad, bad man, as I've said for four years. Yeah, he really is. The only thing keeping him from being a Hall of Fame player is just the injuries. He just hurt a lot, kind of like Corey Seeger. But, my gosh, you know, he just does everything, you know. I don't, he reminds me of a little bit of Miguel Cabrera in his prime and maybe even, you know.

Albert Pujols. That's the kind of damage she does. And to hit for average, too, the way he does. It's just unbelievable. Everything he can do with the play. He's a tremendous hit or there's no doubt about it. I mean, he's capable of carrying a team. You know, it's going to take. 86 wins to win this division, maybe 85 to win this division. And he's capable of carrying a team to an 85 win season all by himself. You'd like to think that Corey Seeger could do that. And look, he showed a glimpse of that with his three-run homer that kind of decided a game and also allow the Rangers to manipulate their bullpen a little bit on Saturday. But... He so far hasn't shown the ability to carry this team long term. So what's your bet on this team then, Evan at this point? I don't know that I can make a bet on this team right now. I just don't. I mean, it's so confounding. But look, they went, all I can tell you is this. They went four and two last week against a slate of losing teams. They seem to get some emotional lift from the fact that Jacob de Grom said, I believe in us. I believe I can do better, and I believe in us. They've got a week this week that's built for a winning stretch. You go four and two, followed by five and two. It's a 13 game stretch where you've gone nine and four. Maybe that rests you back, control of the division, and, you know, maybe you take off. But to this point, Kevin, and again, you know, you go back to the start of last year and really go back to the middle of 2024. This is just a 500 club. And... It's hard to see them being much more than that. But if you get one 10-game stretch where you play really, really well, that may be the difference in all of us. Well, the longer you push it back, yes, no question about that. Here we are in the middle of August, just about. And I mean, I hate, I hate, it's tiresome. You know, we've talked about this all year on this podcast. I've talked about this all year with John on the, on the Sports Day Rangers podcast. But it's hard to, it's hard to get a feel for this team because every time you think they're getting, every time you think they're about to get knocked out, like Al Pacino, they drag me back in. And every time you think that they're about to take off, you know, some inexplicable injury or issue arises. And they've never been fully healthy, what team has. But it is just a 500 team. And the hope is that, you know, it's always going to even out a little bit, right? But you hope that as the season goes on, at some point you get that hot stretch and time runs out.

Well, it goes back to, I think a little bit to your point earlier about Yordaun Alvarez carrying the Astros. Yordaun Alvarez, when he's healthy, he's great, right? And who is great on the Rangers? Well, the answer to that is supposed to be Corey Seeger and the starting rotation. Yeah. And that's over two. You know, there are moments. There are times when they when they kind of live up to that. I think that that's really, to me, probably the. what the issue is with the Rangers over the last year. They're good enough as they're built to be a 500 team, but no one wants to be a 500 team. You want to get to the playoffs. And so the difference is supposed to be, well, we signed these, you know, back when they signed Simeon and Seeger, and that's, and it worked, you know, in 2023, it worked. And they had enough other guys who had career years that they plowed through the playoffs on the road and then they win the World Series. And it was all great. And they just haven't been able to do that ever since. You know, and I think one of the reasons is because they haven't gotten those kind of performances from their marquee players. You know, basically, to your point, Kevin, right? Corey has come back from the IAL, came back at the end of July, right? And in that time, it's only nine games. But he's hitting a very nice 273. and a very average 727 OPS. He by no means has taken off yet. And the longer this season goes, the longer, the more and more it wanes, the thought that, hey, at some point Corey's going to take over. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, at least it's going, it's trending upward. It's not trending very fast, but at least it is trending upward. You know, he is. starting to do some of the things you would expect him to do. I would be interesting to know, and of course he would never say this. How much his back's bothering him, you know, still, if there's, you know, any issues with him. It just seems with Corey, he's always managing something, right? Managing his back, he's managing his hamstrings. He's, you know, everything. There's an issue of some sort. Managing his emotions. He's emotions. Exactly. Does a good job of that. He's an expert at it. But anyway, so. I will say this. And I've not talked to any players about this, but, you know, the Rangers have that whole little thing where they. I mean, Jake Berger's got like a whole dance routine when he reaches bass with the lasso and the steam roll and the salute and they all lasso. And, you know, I watched Corey and he reached bass a couple times in the Baltimore series. And Corey's the one guy that doesn't participate in that. I haven't talked anybody about whether or not that, you know, how that rubs guys. But it's just to me an example of this guy.

can't allow himself to just be part of the group. No. He said famously at that All-Star game, remember, where he said, yeah, my brothers beat that out of me. And I don't think he meant literally beat it out of me, but I, you know, I think, you know, and that's a powerful dynamic because I had brothers and I knew what that was like, you know, to have that. And I could really identify with it. And so. I empathize with him in that a little bit. But I also go back to that, you know, World Series run, where he's showing all that emotion and everybody's talking about how great it was for the team and how much it energized the dug. Even Marcus Simeon said that. And then, poof, you know, it goes away. And I think when it goes away after you've done it, well, that's a mistake. You know, either don't do it and just stick to it forever and say, this is just who I am. But when you do that and then you don't do it anymore, I think it says, well, what the heck? Were you just trying then and you're not trying now? I mean, you know, what does that mean? And so it leaves everybody else to try to figure out what does this all mean, you know? I've spent my life trying to figure that out, Kevin. I know, Evan. There's lots of stuff. What does it all mean? What is the big picture? What does all this mean, anyway, Evan? For you, it means three plates of fajitas and seven margaritas. We've had, since Friday I've had, I think it's up to like tastes of 15 different margaritas. Wow, 15 margaritas. Yeah, some of them are not, have not been that great. No. No, Debbie and I discussed that when we got home because the first thing we always do after we come back from vacation is like, all right, let's go eat Mexican food. You're going to be casino. Well, we did. And the reason we went there is because, you know, she loves the, not only just the margarina, but the, what's the thing of the swirl? The Mombotox taxi. Yeah, she loves that. Yeah, that's on the list for us to go and try. You know, it's been a while since I've had a Mombot taxi. But it's pretty much the. I really feel like that is the old guard. Las Palma seems to be like the current go-to margarita, but I think Mika Sina was until about five years ago, it was the It Margarita in town. Yeah. Let me just say this before we bring Joe on. Joe's shocked to come on and find out we're talking about margaritas. The Rangers are that bad, Joe, so that's why we're talking about margarias. Is that... Looking around, we go to the original magazine because it's right behind our house over here in North Dallas. I thought the original was Highland Park Highland Park. No, no, no, this was the first one. The original's up there by you and. Yeah, it is. And so, we've lived here for 32 years, 33 years. 32, 4, 44 years. And it started like, it opened like two years before we moved here. But anyway, is that how many young people are in there? And I'm going to tell you, you're going to any other restaurant in our neighborhood, and in lots of places that we go to eat. And there's nothing about old people in there. But in megasina, there are a lot of young people. I would say half the crowd in there is under 25.

I just want to remind you of something very quickly. You are an old person too, Kevin. So anywhere you go, there are old people. Well, yeah, I'm well aware. I'm well aware. But I'm just saying, it's very interesting to me that it draws so many young people. And that has to be very encouraging to Ray Washburn that he's got that young market cornered. That's really good. All right. Meekisina is, it's. Yeah, it's the old guard, and it's still got plenty of followers. It's one of does. Still got his fastball. All right, we got Joe Hoyt here. We got to get Joe going because he's got to get going. He's got to go over to the Rams practice for the joint practice with the Rams. And Joe, I saw a note went out from the Cowboys saying that you can't work at their facilities because it's too small. Tell them to get with it, right? I mean, what are you supposed to do? Go to a Starbucks and write your story? I mean, it's very high school-like of covering high school football. I mean, I used to just go park outside McDonald's and ride my cars just to get a little bit of Wi-Fi. Like, hey, let me get some of that Wi-Fi you got there. But, yeah, you know, I don't need much space. I think it should be for those TV people. And, you know, I think that, you know, they could have allowed us little newspaper reporters to have a little bit of space. But, you know, is what it is. No, you're not a big guy. Joe, let me just remind you of something very quickly. You work for a newspaper, which a lot of Americans don't even know exists, like the actual idea of a newspaper. So we don't matter. You know what? That's true. My negative self-talk tells me that all the time, but then my optimistic side says, you know, there's something still out there. Joe, stick with that, pal. I'm going to tell you something. That is... Carried me almost 50 years in this business, that optimistic side. Oh, yeah, Mr. Optimist, Kevin Sherrington. Yeah, I am. I'm very optimistic. Very, you know, I'm very critical but optimistic at the same time. You know, it's a, it's a remarkable, a very complex person. The duality of man. There you go. Yes, that's right. I represent that very well. All right, Joe. So listen, so the Cowboys have signed Quinn and Williams to a 10-year deal, $500 million. I don't know, something like that. What was it that game, Quentin? Through your extension, 105.9. It sounds like a radio station, but that's the million that they're giving him. Just enough to edge Jeffrey Simmons to be the second highest paid defensive tackle in the NFL, and he's now the second highest paid cowboy there is behind Dak Prescott. How about that? So they didn't want to pay, you know, Micah Parsons, but they don't mind paying Quentin Williams. So obviously not the same ballpark, you know, that would have been quite a bit more to pay Micah Park. But he's also quite a bit younger than Quentin Williams is. Do we feel like, remind me how old, has Quentin reached 30? No, he's 28. 28. 28. So do we think this is money well spent?

I do because I think ultimately when they acquired him, this was the inevitable path. I think when they acquired him, gave up a first round pick, second round pick, and Mazi Smith. This was saying, hey, we believe that this guy could be the core of our defense moving forward. And they told him as much. When they acquired him, they told him, hey, we want you to be a leader on this defense. We want you to be the thing that turns this defense around. And I think the thing that's telling for me is... Ultimately, yeah, I mean, are you going to turn down $105 million for, you know, to carry you through 2030? You know, probably not. But if Quentin Williams wanted to, he could have taken a tougher path here. You know, the Cowboys have been bullish. They gave up some leverage, honestly, when they said at the training at training camp, yeah, we want him here long term and we want to negotiate with him now. But he had, he was signed through next season. If he wanted to. And if the Cowboys defense, you know, had this resurgence this year and he was at the head of it, I mean, he could have got more money next year too. And he could have really played hardball. But I think that this was telling that Quinn and Williams, you know, he believes that this Cowboys team, believe it or not, can actually make the playoffs, can actually do some things. And, you know, he's so, he was so, you know. His experience with the Jets was so bad in terms of that regard that I think once he's had a semblance of hope, I think he wanted to lock into it. Yeah, I get that. And that's the point I wanted to bring up with you, leading to, and you made the point about his leadership skills. You know, everybody we hear from now, and we heard from Kenny Clark, who's also cited for his leadership. since the Cowboys have acquired him. And he was talking about Rashon Gary recently and said, yeah, I want to get him in there because I know the kind of guy he is, the kind of leader that he is, and he's great for this, he'd be great for this locker room. I'm hearing a lot of that, Joe. And what that tells me is, is there was not much leadership in that locker, certainly on the defensive side of the ball, before these acquisitions. Now, I think there was from DeMarcus Lawrence to a certain extent. But I don't know that there was a lot from anybody else, was there? Well, I think I put it this way. I think that there was not unified leadership. I think that there was, you know, different factions. I think different people had different ideas of how to lead. Like, for example, like Micah Parsons cares a lot about football, right? Like, he works very, very hard. He also has a different, quote-unquote, leadership style. And when, you know... When DeMarcus Lawrence left, you know, I think that there was a little bit of a leadership gap. And I think different guys had different ideas how to fill it. And ultimately, the guys right here right now, I think they're on the same page on how to lead. I was asked, I've been asked this a couple times, like, okay, what's different about this year? It feels different. I think it's just the noise, frankly. Like, I think, like, you don't have... Micah Parsons and Trayvon Diggs, and even like a guy like Israel McQuamu, like they're just louder people, right? They're very vocal. They're going to tell you what they think rather than show you. I think right now you have a lot of guys that are going to show you rather than tell you. Kenny Clark is not very talkative, right? Quentin Williams is about his business. Rashon Gary is about his business. Caleb Downs and Jay Sean Barham literally won't even talk to us.

Caleb Downs is a guy that is very about his business rather than talking a lot. So I think that they have found a leadership style that is more uniform with what they would like it to be. And I think Quinn and Williams is a perfect example of it. Jay Sean Barham won't even talk to you? He has not talked to the media yet. I tried. I got told no. And I asked multiple questions about why, and I got silence. And that's been a common experience so far with Jay Sean. But it's funny because he talked to rookie minicam and he's pretty good. I've just been told for many people that he believes that talking is not. beneficial to his mission of playing on the Dallas Cowboys. Okay. Okay. You know, there was a time when people, when they... Not by him. He didn't say that. No, he's not saying that. No, he won't. He won't tell us. But, you know, he's getting... If you're going to be the starting Mike linebacker for the Dallas Cowboys, like he potentially is, you'll eventually have to talk. Even if it's a Marshawn Lynch, I'm just here so I don't get fined. Yeah. So is there a potential for him to beat that? Yes, definitely. And I think right now he's dealing with a groin injury, which is going to kind of slow down that progress a little bit. But they've been really impressed with his ability. And I think the big thing about him is they had a plan for him. You know, Jason Barham, he's a third round pick. Why? Well, because he was kind of an edge at Michigan. He was kind of a middle linebacker at times. He did multiple things, but I think that a lot of teams just didn't know exactly how they wanted to use him. I think the Cowboys brought him in. They wanted to make him a middle linebacker with the potential to have Zach Bond versatility and move to the edge when he'd be, and he's done that. And I think that he fits the middle linebacker. mold more than DeMarvin Oversone and D. Winters, who I think they look at as Weekside linebackers. So I think week one, you're starting linebackers, you could have DeMarvon Oversone at Mike and D. Winters at Weekside, right? But I do think eventually you're going to see Jay Sean Barham not only be a rotational piece at Mike, but eventually be the starting mic for the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, I would make this point with Calvin a couple weeks ago. I just have a hard time envisioning to Marvin overshone as a middle linebacker. You know, he just, to me, he is a weak side line. You want him chasing the ball, you know, with that kind of speed. So I had not seen enough of bar and play at Michigan to know whether he can be that or not. But. You know, they did obviously address safety and whatever. Give me an idea that first before I even talked about that. Is Caleb Downs technically going to be what? What is the definition of his position? Does he have a definition of his position? Yeah, he's going to be your nickel, your star position. He's going to be a guy that plays inside the box, plays in the slot. We'll play deep safety at times. He is the versatile chess piece that is a prerequisite for Christian Parker's defense.

Okay. And how much of that, you know, with Christian, we always talk about Christian programming. My gosh, let's hope that he is what he says he is because we're kind of making him out to be the next Bill Belichick, you know. So at any rate, he's certainly not the next Roman Polanski based on the amount of issues regarding video. He. So it's that whole thing, that whole thing's pretty funny. Because I think like Christian admitted it on the fan, but I'd heard this too that, you know, he would use burner accounts to follow Calvin in training camp last year, right? Like he would use burner accounts to follow these guys and he would. he would signal things and he found it beneficial. Like, you know, they played the Eagles week one last year. It was a close game. The Eagles ended up winning. Did something Calvin tweeted, you know, during training camp caused the Cowboys lose? Probably not, right? Like, and I think- No, look, I want to go with this. Calvin walking, and this is you saying this, Joe. Yep, clip it, put it on Twitter, me blaming Calvin for the Cowboys going 0-1 to start last year. But I think like, I mean, coaches will tell you this. I'm sure they do it in baseball to Evan. We're like, oh, every little thing helps and could be the difference in a game. I'm not necessarily a big believer in that in terms of like training camp film. And ultimately, our argument to them was, guys, we actually have tighter shots. We're on the field. We have discretion to, we're not trying to give scheme away, right? We're not trying to tip things. But by having fans out there who can give you wide all 22 films that are filming from this, you know, the. snap of the huddle throughout the whole play and you can see all these motions and disguises that's that's a bigger issue um you would actually want our film not theirs so is what it is yeah i mean i feel like you hear all this stuff and i think more of it just comes down to control than it does actually finding an advantage um but Like you said, Joe, everybody's looking for something on the margins to help them win. And I would hope that the team and the defense, as constructed and as planned by Christian Parker, on its own, is good enough to win. It's just the whole idea of getting some video that some TV guy reported or recorded during the open portion. I don't think it's made a big difference in the Cowboys fortunes over the last, whatever, 30 years. But, hey, to each is their own, man. Yeah, and that advantage, I think, you can argue there's something you could find week one, right? Like, oh, you know, especially with the new defensive coordinator. After week one, it's moot, too. I mean, and it's irrelevant. You've put your stuff on film. And I even said this, too, shoot, if you're going to have open practices, I mean, the New York Giants could send a scout in theory just to sit in the stands and watch. Like, it's, that's part of the deal.

Right. Joe, let me ask you this. So. Well, I will say, you know, we had this issue in baseball this year where a scout for the Angels was sitting in the stands with his camera recording coaches' signals from the third base box, recording that and reporting it back to his guys. He was fired when that was when that was revealed. But it also, it's the angels. It didn't really exactly help them a whole bunch. So, you know, there's only so much you can gain from this stuff. I think the better leaders help. The league should let the angels do that. Give them a little up. Give them a little step. Here we go. We give you a little extra. So, Joe. With this team, the way the demons are constructed right now, and the Joneses keep dropping, hints that, yeah, we're always thinking, you know, we can add to, we can add to. And of course, everybody says that. You know, why would you, why would you say no, we're not going to do anything? A, do you really think they are open to adding something? And B, what would that be? and see it better be a pass rusher right yeah i've it's funny because stephen Jay Jones told someone yesterday i forget who that you know hey cornerback and lineback or some of the positions we're keeping an eye on i i've been told that edge rusher is something that they'd that they're actually kind of monitoring um i think that they'll make some type of move eventually before the season begins to add a pass rusher potentially. I don't know to what level. But I'll say this. I think, too, I don't think Jerry was lying or just stirring things up when he said that we are willing to do substantive things in order to help this team this year. And we're willing to take picks from the future. I think that's their mindset. I think that that's something they're willing to do. But I also, from the very beginning, I think that they're talking more about like something they did last year with Quinn and Williams, where they said, hey, at the trade deadline, if we need someone or a little bit more into the season, if we need a player that we think can help us now. And we believe that we can do some things in the playoffs. Let's do it. Because ultimately. They have one first round pick right now. You know, they have Dak Prescott, you know, going into the later part of his, you know, career. If this, if you gave a first round pick for someone right now, let's say Josh Sweat, right? And then either Josh Swet got hurt or Dak Prescott got hurt, then the whole trade is moot. And then the whole trade is not even worth. it's not worth it. I mean, you just gave a first round pick, burned it on fire for the chance to go to the playoffs and it didn't work out. So I think that that's something that they're kind of guarding against. I think it's something they're feeling out. I think conversations are had to lay the groundwork for things like that. But I just don't see anything happening from like a substantive point of view before the season begins.

All right. So, well, to me, that's the only thing that matters, really, at this point is I think they're better in lots of places. They're incrementally better, maybe, but they're better. I'm not sure that they're better in their pass rush. And it feels like more that they're going to have to end up scheming something like that. And I don't know if that really works, you know. I think that they're really buying into the idea of what the Denver Broncos did last year, that they could have the best pass rush in the NFL without. without a Micah Parsons level type pass rusher, you know, without a Max Crosby type kind of guy. But Nick Benito is pretty darn good himself, right? And I think they're hoping that maybe Rishon Gary is not going to be Nick Benito, but he can get up there. They want to do it with the collective, not the individual. But I still think that they could use a little bit more juice. You know, the interesting X factor, I think, will be Malachi Lawrence. You know, he's still false stepping. which is kind of, you know, that's something that we, when I played as a kid, like day one, we're talking about going forward, not stepping backwards as our first step. Like, it's kind of wild to me that's still something he's dealing with. And yet he still pops in terms of getting after the quarterback. He's still beating some of their offensive tackles. If he's a guy as a rotational pass rusher that can get after the quarterback and give you a handful of sacks to seven sacks, like I think that that's kind of an X factor with their pass rush too. Good thing. All right, Joe, we know you got to go. So we're going to let you go. We appreciate you stopping by and talking to us. And we'll let you out up here now. As a matter of fact, Evan, unless you got anything else, I think I'm going to shut this thing down. Well. Why are you brushing Joe off so quick? Because he's got to go to the Rams practice. I got a last Palma's date. I got to get some margaritas. Yeah, that's right. Not everybody's living in the house. I got a hot take for you, Evan. I don't know if you're going to like it. I'm not a big margarita guy, and I'm Mexican, by the way. I just think a good margarita is hard to find. I think that, you know, we just kind of couple it with tacos and they oversell it. And, yeah. So a Mambo taxi ain't bad, though. Mamo taxi is very good. That's correct. That's your hot take? I don't think margaritas are overrated. I think margaritas are overrated. There you go. I think a good margarita may be hard to find, but that's the whole purpose of this endeavor. I know, and that's, but I'm saying that people, people accept like low-level margaritas like, oh, let's get marg. Let's do it. And I'm like, no, like this marg sucks. So I think you need to find the good ones. Yeah. Wow. Blaming Calvin for a week one loss and margaritas suck. Joe Hoy. I'm coming in hot today. I'm coming in hot. He is. And I'm leaving. I'm leaving. Bye, Joe. When you go over to the Rams thing, ask Matthew Stafford where the best market in town is. Yeah, I'll ask him, has he ever been a high school teammate with anyone of substance too? You know, I think I've never known that. We'll see it. All right, Joe. Thank you. All right, there goes Joe. And, you know, that was some pretty good stuff from Joe. I liked it.

Especially that stuff about margaritas being overrated. That was maybe the top of it. Or Joe blames Calvin for. I like that should be the headline on this. Cowboys lost week one last year due to Calvin Watkins tweets. Yeah. Or it's even better say. DMN Staffer blames teammate for Cowboys' first loss. I like that. Yeah, that's good. I, you know, there's plenty of Rangers who are. reading who are using burners to read my tweets i get plenty of feedback on that how sick is all that anyway holy cow what's going on in the world i'm just not that duplicitous you know i it's like what the heck what are we what are we hiding behind my gosh it's a different world there's a different world evan i don't know it is a different world kevin i don't know if i'm ready for it give me um All right. Well, is there anything else we need to touch base on? No, I think that's going to do it. I think we covered it all. We covered everything worth covering. It was in this podcast. This single podcast. Well, it's good to have you back, Kevin. Evan, it's great to be back. I'm sorry we didn't get to play golf this week. That didn't work out. We're going to have that next round of golf here. I played Saturday. Did you really? Yeah, there may have been some heat stroke involved. We didn't tee off till 11. Oh, my gosh. And I could not, I physically could not play the last four holes. I was. Did they have you on a cart? I was close. So there will be no, until we get past this summer, there will be no pre-10 AM, no post-10 AMTs. That was foolish. Was there anybody within a 10-mile radius of you when that happened? Oh, yeah. We played at Irving. Of course, was jam-packed with people. Crazy people. Oh, my gosh. I mean, look, Natalie's boyfriend, Tommy, I got to brag on Tommy. He shot 74. He shot his best round of the year. Wow. How about that? Yeah. So you were an inspiration to him. I shot 174 and he shot 74.

Oh, but who's counting, right? Yeah, I stopped after about eight holes. That's for the best. Don't be counting. Don't be counting. It was not a great day. It was not a great day of golf, but a day with playing with Natalie and Tommy is a great day. There you go. Each stroke and all. And there's someone there to monitor you. That was good. I had a, I even had an alcoholic beverage on the golf course. Wow, heaven. Something called a water hazard. Is that right? Water hazard. I don't know where they're coming up with these drinks, but this was vodka, Sprite, and blue Gatorade. Boy, it sounds wonderful. He's very afraid. Yeah. You should have stayed just fine. You should have poured it over your head. That would have been better. Oh, boy. All right. That's going to do it for us. We appreciate you coming out and listening to us, and we hope you'll be back next week. I can't guarantee you'd want to come back after this week, but hopefully you would. And so from everybody in here to everybody out there, thanks, and we'll see you next time.