Seattle’s Punk Rock Flea Market Finds A Home, Kind Of

The fatal shooting of a teenager at a protest in Seattle has gone unsolved for six years. This is open in your face. How are there no answers? Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say they've never talked to police. Did police ever call you? Not once. Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new true crime series on the Embedded podcast from NPR. Hey, good morning. Patricia Murphy here. It's Sunday. This is Seattle now. Today, we get the latest from our Arts and Culture Desk with KUOW's Jeannie Yandel. For 20 years now, there's been a nomadic, sometimes literally underground, art market slash live music event slash community hangout happening here in Seattle. It's called the punk rock flea market. And Josh Okrent has been there since the very beginning. He found a basement in Belltown and organized the very first punk rock flea market. And he's still finding empty spaces and making the market happen with his partners two decades later. Hi, Josh. Hi. Tell me what it's like to walk into a punk rock flea market. Like, what's the sensory experience? What does it sound like? What does it smell like? What does it look like? It is an overwhelming experience. Whatever space we're using at the time, the space is full. Okay. So full of vendors selling small things, big things, really literally everything from little pins that fit in your pocket to great big pieces of furniture and old pieces of sculpture. And... steamer trunks and large skeletons and highway road signs, all kinds of things. What we try to do is have a very welcoming presence at the front. So you come, you give a dollar. We keep the price a dollar, as it's been for 20 years. There's always a friendly face at the door. They give you a hand stamp. They can give you some guidance. Here's where the bar is. That's where the records are. That's where the bathroom is. Here's where we keep the ATM. And then basically you're on your own in this... wild creative shopping sharing wonderland it is an overwhelming experience from the get-go there's a huge amount to see and so people choose their starting point and wander off and have their adventure okay it sounds a little bit choose your own adventure it is it is choose your own adventure there are many directions even from the very front door there's half a dozen ways you can go and everything leads to something different it is August, right? And the space that you all currently are in, the quality flea center was once the QFC supermarket on 15th Avenue East. How do you keep that space? cool in the summer. Like having all those bodies in there. What is what happens? Yeah, great question. We have fans. The whole project, the whole building has been this constant ground up DIY renovation project. Yeah. And so one thing we did this winter was we.

worked with someone who represents an HVAC company. And that was a whole other interesting story about how we bartered with him to actually get in there and work on it. You bartered with an HVAC company? We did. And I'll get to that. Okay. Sorry. It's a good story. But he helped us both set up heating. and get the existing heating system to a place where we actually could turn the gas on. And it also works. We don't have air conditioning, but we do have a vent system now. So we can get the fans going. And it is a concrete, it's a fully concrete box without a lot of exterior windows. So it doesn't get super hot. It does get cold. Yeah. That's much more of a problem than getting hot. You mentioned that you... bartered with an HVAC guy to bring him in and do this work in a space that is temporary for you all. Right. How did you barter with an HVAC guy? Never thought I'd hear those words together. Barter with an HVAC person. Something we're really trying to do at the Quality Flea Center is it is absolutely a community building space. And so one of our guiding principles is that the space is whatever people bring to it. And so it's really open to a huge number of ideas and concepts and experiments that... We say yes to as many things as we possibly can. And a lot of people really want to be part of that. It really is a community building enterprise. And so there are folks that have some crazy idea. They have a theater show they've wanted to put on for years. They've been designing clothes and want to be able to have a runway show where they get that work out in front of people. We have space, readily available space, very flexible space, that we can trade with people who bring in skills or energy or ideas. And we have a mutually beneficial relationship that way. It turned out that this HVag guy who was a friend of a friend is a musician, is a guitar player, and actually a multi-instrumentalist who didn't have a practice space. So he gave us a tremendous amount of H-Back expertise. It's really a huge number of hours in exchange for being able to build out a section of our basement as his practice space. And he built it's very small. It's a little, like it's like a 10 by 10 room that he soundproofed. And he moved his drum kit in there. And he moved his keyboards and amps in there. And every so often he's in there playing. We hardly hear the guy. But he got the heating on. And he got the vents going. And it turned out to be a really, really beneficial relationship. Wow. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. What came first? Was it the idea for something like the punk rock flea market? Or was it an empty space that you encountered? The space came first. Okay. So I have always been curious about these in-between spaces since I was a kid. you know, painting graffiti with friends and looking for spaces that were unoccupied that could be used in different ways or, you know, not abused, but kind of take an advantage of jove, right? Like used to their full potential, let me say, or to a different potential. Repurposed, I think, is the word we use now. That's good, right, repurposed. Upcycled. There you go. I was working for a low-income housing property developer in town for a low-income housing institute. And...

Someone else, a developer who was working with them pointed out to me that he knew of this proclivity I had. And he said, hey, there's a, there's one building that has a bar. underneath the building that has been untouched for years. It's sitting there. It's vacant. Do you want to just come take a look at it? And I was, oh, yeah, let's go take a look. So he had the key, and he got me, we both went in, and immediately I saw the potential. It was a, it was a basement space. It was at first and wall, a former union hall that had become a bar for a while and was, had been vacated quickly. So it was just this rotting. former bar with a stage, two bars and a stage, and a really cool space that was sitting unused and underutilized. So I approached the owners about using that space to do something. My only idea at that point was throwing a party. And their response was, okay, I could use it if I cleaned it up. Didn't bring any trouble on their heads, right? Didn't bring the police, so kept things, you know, legal and friendly with the neighbors, and that some portion of it was a benefit for the low-income housing developer, which was a nonprofit. And it seemed like it made sense to me. It was a reasonable offer. I liked it. That's where the first team got assembled just in cleaning out that space. And it was nasty. It was a bar that I don't know the backstory, but they left in a hurry clearly. So there was still, I mean, the bar was still set up with rotted fruit around and there was garbage around. And it was a job in itself. And then just building it up in a way that we could use it. Fixing whatever had been a hazard at that point, making sure there was, you know, there were tables in the place and places where people could congregate. And the very first, that was September 2006. And then on Saturday, we did the first punk rock flea market. But it was the flea market that just really rang a bell with people. And so everyone, people loved it. It was a bigger crowd than we would have predicted even from the get-go. And everyone's immediate response was, how can we do this more often? So that was the seed. Why do you think people loved that first flea market so much? Like, what were they saying that made you understand that that was something that they really loved? It turns out that there really is. And this wasn't, this isn't us. surprised to anybody, but it just turns out that there really is a wonderful, huge, creative underground community in Seattle. There are a lot of people who are sitting in their basements making really interesting beautiful things or collecting interesting beautiful things. And this was a venue for folks to come out and show them that wasn't, it's so non-corporate. It was all the first shows were non-juried. It was whoever showed up could sell. I think we...

charge $25 for a table at that point. Oh, wow. And so anyone that could, yeah, bring the 25 bucks together or do work trade, which is something we offered then and still offer, they could just show up and sell their stuff. You know, their... It didn't have to be professional. It didn't have to meet any kind of standard at that point. It was really to show up and be part of the fun. And we really are a, we're a very, very, very low bar organization in terms of who can participate. We have very few rules. We try to say yes. Like, that's our object. It's just to say yes to folks who want to be part of it. What does that mean you try and say yes? Like in practice, what does that actually mean? What does that look like? It's just, it's a, it's a. humble way of organizing an effort. Just being able to say, I don't have all the answers and no one has all the ideas that people can come out of the woodwork, people we've never met before, who have interesting perspectives and interesting thoughts and a way of doing things that might never have occurred to me or to the team that we've been working with and just hearing that, hearing that and giving, making room for that to happen. That's where the best ideas come from. Yeah, none of us pretend we know it all. We want to hear what other people can bring to the table. If I wanted to come forth with an idea, if I had something that I thought would be really cool in this space, how do I do that? Like, what are the ramp ways to be able to talk to you guys about this? Show up. You show up. Same work. Where every Thursday, we have a work party, which is literally an open session work party. And the doors are open and you can come in and we'll put you to work. And if you're not sure what you want to do, we'll put a tool in your hand or we'll be like, oh, right now we're moving the skate ramps around. Or right now we're hanging this art show that we're showing over the next few days. And so folks come and volunteer all the time. Who's showing up? Who's showing up? Yeah. So we're in Capitol Hill right now. So Capitol Hill folks, a lot of young people, young punks. There's a tremendous representation from the trans community right now, kind of young punk trans kids who are on Capitol Hill, right? Either they grew up in Seattle or around and they've been attracted to the gravity of Capitol Hill. And we have a very, a bunch of our leadership, our... trans community. Our whole bar staff are all trans folks. And so that's a community that we're particularly open to. And so we'll have a lot of that. We'll have a lot of, you know, the doors are open on a Thursday and we just did a fashion show, say, on the weekend. And someone came in for the first time and they think, oh, I like this. I like what's going on here. And they'll come back on a Thursday and they'll ask to help. Okay, you've been doing this for 20 years now. What's your favorite part of punk rock flea market? I love that people keep showing up. I love that people keep coming. And I love that young people still feel like this is something relevant to them. That we haven't burned ourselves out. We haven't come nearly to the end of this idea that there's still room to grow and there's still room for more people and more people are still interested in showing up. I love that.

When we first started talking, you said that a developer you were working with recognized your proclivity for getting into empty buildings. Tell me more about that proclivity. Like, have you been doing this since you were young? I mean, I'm imagining young, Josh, correct me if I'm wrong, trying to bust into empty buildings just to see what's there? I mean... I think busting in isn't quite quite the word. Fair enough. But looking for open fences and looking for open doors. Yeah, I would never, I would, I don't, I never broke or stole. anything. It's not, I wasn't breaking and entering. It wasn't that kind of thing. It was more like, I think it's a not uncommon way for urban kids to make sense of their environment, right? You've got a can of spray pin and you've got a skateboard and you're trying to see what's possible. And in an urban environment in particular, there's a lot of unused spaces and blank walls and potential skate jumps. And It's something that, yes, it's something that I did very young and with... plenty of friends that I, you know, still maintain contact with, and it was a way we had of exploring our environment, just seeing what was it, what else was out there, what was behind the doors that we weren't supposed to open and the spaces we weren't supposed to get into. And yeah, I've been doing that my whole life. I couldn't help, but today I was coming up, University of looking for a place to park, and I couldn't help but notice that there are, you know, vacant, vacant store friends. And I'm curious, like, what's in there? What kind of, what's their setup? How much... How much square footage have they got? What's their plumbing situation all about? You know, what could I paint in there? So it's still, it's a constant way of looking at the world and certainly at urban environments. What surprised you the most about... coming into these spaces that are meant to be torn down in some cases, maybe have no purpose. They're just sort of there and repurposing them, turning them into something else. I mean, the thing that constantly surprises me is how landlords and owners sit on these great spaces and don't do anything with them. It's still, it. Boggles my mind. I like what I do and I'm proud of what I do and I love our team, but I'm not the only person out there who has ideas of what you could do with a cheap, large, affordable space. I don't know why more people don't take advantage of it and I don't really understand why more property owners and landlords and developers don't make use of what community groups like ours can bring to a space. Maybe we keep it safer and we make it more creative.

We're the artists who want to come in and make something useful of an area that's maybe been neglected or ignored. And we see the potential in it. There's so much benefit that these kinds of activities can bring to a space or bring to a building that is otherwise a hazard or otherwise just vacant and invisible that I'm surprised. More people don't take advantage of what we're doing and bring us in. One of the things that struck me when you were talking was this notion of people maybe doing things that are solitary in nature coming together to sort of show what they've been doing and have conversations and about what they're doing and maybe sell some stuff. What has punk rock flea market over the last 20 years, what has it taught you about loneliness? It is clear that people crave community. And for... And I think that's always been true. I just think human beings want to be in the company of other human beings. I think that the culture we've been creating for ourselves over the last, you know, the last decades, you know, if not, however many years, I don't know, I'm not a historian in that regard. But I do think that the culture we've created for ourselves of getting in our... cars in order to get home to turn on our machines and fall asleep with our machines in our hands so that we can wake up and get back in our cars and go to our other machines. I think we've really done a number on ourselves in terms of cutting ourselves off from the communities that make our lives rich. And it's a shame. It's a true thing. It's what we're all living with. But organizations like ours and other kinds of community events that have a different model where we are encouraging people to work together and get their hands dirty together and come up with ideas in a group and make decisions as a team. I think that's a real antidote for a lot of people and it's something they really crave and look forward to. And I think that's part of the secret of our longevity is that we do have that. It's that culture of yes thing again, right, where we really want to be welcoming and we want to hear what people, we're open to whatever people bring to the table. I know the next punk rock flea market is happening on September 25th through the 27th. It's sort of the 20th anniversary celebration. What else is happening in the space over the next month or so? I mean, do you have three? things you're excited about that are happening? Sure. So the Quality Flea Center, which is the home of the punk rock flea market at 41615th Avenue, east on Capitol Hill, is a very, very active space. Almost every weekend there's something going on and many weekdays are something going on. So coming up soon, the Seattle Robotics. club is bringing their robot fights to the QFC on August 22nd. And there are three weight classes of robots, small, medium and large, and they go at it. And the best robot wins. It's an all ages event. There's no admission charge. You are welcome to come in. And I think people can even bring in their robots and register them on the day. If you happen to have your robot with you, you can bring it to be part of the robot fights. That's coming up. And then...

There are a few great all-age of shows coming up, great concerts that we are, we have a team in internal team that we call Q Fleecy Presents. And we've got a few shows coming up. They're almost always all ages shows. And then Animal House has a show coming up on August 28th, which is a live music show. Oh, and then the, um, the quality film club. Let me give a shout out to the Quality Film Club. So that is a film club. We show movies on a large screen in the space, and it's entry by donation. We make decisions about the movies that we're going to show as a group, as a Democratic group, and then we always have a discussion afterward. That's on first and third Thursdays. Josh Okrant is a co-founder of the punk rock flea market here in Seattle. They are currently housed at the old QFC, now called the Quality Flea Center on 15th Avenue East on Capitol Hill. Yes, there is a 20th anniversary celebration happening next month, but... As Josh mentioned, there is lots of other stuff happening before then. We will have a list of everything going on at the Quality Flea Center at KUOW.org and in our show notes. Josh, thank you so much. This was so fun. A pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to Seattle Now. If you have a minute, please rate and review the show. Today's show is produced by Kyle Norris and edited by Phyllis Fletcher. Our production team also includes producers Brandy Fullwood and Matt Martin and hosts Katie Campbell and Dyer Oxley. Greg Kramer does our theme music. Seattle Now and KUOW Public Radio are members of the NPR Network. And one last thank you to our generous donors for their financial support. You can support this show and all the KUOW podcasts you rely on over at KUOW.org. I'm Jeannie Yandel. See you next time.

The midterm elections are drawing near, meaning fact-based reporting is more important than ever. I'm Libby Dankman, host of Sound Side, where we bring you news and conversation rooted in the Pacific Northwest. We dealt beyond the headlines to bring you different perspectives on stories that impact your life right here in Washington State. And we're easy to find Monday through Thursday at noon and 8 p.m. on KUOW 94-9 FM. Or you can listen anytime on the KUOW app or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks.