What does it take to run a crafty small business?

What does it take to run a crafty small business? You need the skills to create something that people want to buy, of course, but what about pricing, materials, and all the other work it takes to succeed? You're tuned to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Joining me now to talk about what it takes to have a successful side hustle or small business, our Suncraft collective owner, Danny Fraley. Tara Twine owner, Taylor Krupensky, and Foster and Motley Financial Planner, Zach Losey. Thank you all so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Danny, when did you get into woodworking? That's what you're all about at Suncraft Collective. And when did you start selling your work? So I've been a woodworker about eight years and I worked for other companies for the first five of those and kind of figured out what I like to do, what I'm good at, what I want to do. And then I started my own business on Craft Collective about three years ago, just straight off the gate at full time. All in. Just, yeah, all in. Okay, and that's when you started kind of doing your own thing and selling it and making a living. Yeah, about three years ago. Okay, okay. And you, were you trying to juggle this with other work, Danny, or were you just like... I do this or I starve? Like, what was your? Basically, yeah, I ended up having a job change and I decided to just kind of go at it on my own. I had kind of a secure home situation to where I was financially flexible for a little bit of time. And I was like, let's see if we can make this work. And woodworking is, you know, so it takes a lot of work. So to try and do it full time with another job felt like too much. Yeah. Yeah, good way to get hurt. Taylor, how about you? When did you start making your polymer clay crafts? And when did you start selling them? I have been working with polymer clay for about two and a half years now. I started selling in October of 2024. So I'm coming up on my two-year anniversary. And I've always been a really artsy girl. And polymer clay fell into my lap and I never put it down since picking it up. Yeah. Talk about the kinds of things you make. I make all food-related items, key chains, lighter cases, magnets are super popular, and it's... It definitely connects with people. I mean, who doesn't love their favorite food in a little keychain form. And were you juggling this with another job when you first started? Yeah, I was a part-time bartender, and so I was super flexible with time until I took the leap into quitting bartending and focusing on this full-time. Yeah. And, Danny, I should have asked you to clarify the kinds of stuff you make in your business. Oh, yeah. I also do a lot of food-related items because everyone's got to eat.

Usually they need also a cutting board or some cooking utensils. Those are my most popular items. I also make some home goods like notebooks and vases and plant stands. Yeah. And Taylor, so you were at first working part-time as a bartender and then you decided to kind of take the leap and do this full-time. How did you like juggle how much you were earning as a bartender and then how much you could make through your crafts? I... Because bartending can pay pretty well. It does. And I, of all places, Great Wolf, I made some great money there. But it gave me the ability to work unique hours. I wasn't at a nine to five. So I had a lot more time to create. I probably went full time with my art before I even should have. I just had to believe in myself and go for it. Yeah. Well, I want to come back to you all to talk more about taking that leap. But first, Zach, from a financial standpoint, is it a good idea to kind of keep your day job for a while, so to speak, when you're just getting started with sort of a side hustle or a small business like this? What would be your sort of standard advice? Right. That's a million dollar question. When you get started on a venture like this, Obviously, it's going to take a lot of your own personal time outside of work to get it started. But then to even get it further and build into something big, it's going to take even more time. So. You know, the point in which we see people jump from their day job to, you know, the business that they're starting is really when they believe that, okay, my essential needs can be met with what I'm doing now and I feel comfortable. Oftentimes cash flow is very variable when you're starting a new business. So you have to take that in consideration. But. Most of the time, you're taking a bet on yourself that you're going to be able to do this and have a positive cash flow and be able to support your lifestyle. Yeah, I see two heads nodding in agreement with you in terms of taking a bet on yourself. Can you both talk to me about, you know, I don't want you to get into specific dollar figures or your budgets or whatever, but how did you know you could? take care of those basics. Danny, you mentioned you had a pretty stable living situation, so you knew that that was kind of covered. I mean, what went into your decision making? I mean, definitely having, you know, the basics covered, utilities, rent and all that food budget. But at the end of the day, I'm selling products and I am, there's money coming in. It just really came down to how much am I making an hour? Am I making $10 an hour? Am I making $20 or 30? You know, and what should I be making? What's the cost of the overhead of the business rolled into that plus the labor time? So there was always money coming in. I mean, you have things out for sale. People are probably going to buy them at the end of the day. It's just a matter of, is this an efficient use of my time? Yeah. That was a big one to kind of wrap my head around. I think Danny touched on an important topic there. It's time. You know, you have to look at.

Am I getting paid enough for my time? Not only the product that I'm selling, but the time that I'm putting into the business behind the scenes, which can be enormous. Sure, because sometimes the cost of the product you're selling, you have to cover the cost of materials and you have to cover the cost of, you know, sometimes shipping or all those kinds of things. So that time is really important. Taylor, what about you? You mentioned, you know, deciding, hey, I'm going to take this leap. I'm going to really make this. bet on myself. What was the math like for you without getting into the personal details? Similarly, for me, I was in a very privileged position in a very stable, stable point in my life where I wasn't super worried about can I pay my rent this month? Can I pay my car bill this month? So that helped a lot. And then it was just knowing that I'm... taking a risk and if I'm going to have to work extra hard to make it happen, I know that I'm going to have to do that. If that's another market in the month or another two markets in the month, I'm going to have to be willing to do that. Yeah. And did you do even like a business plan? Did you sit down and have like a spreadsheet or something where you were like, I have to make this month much to make this work? This is how I'm going to manage my money, that sort of thing. I wish I could say I did, but I really just went for it, took a bet on myself, and I mean, it paid off. So you have to believe in yourself. Yeah. How about you, Danny? Do you have a business plan? I have a lot of spreadsheets. Okay, here we go. For each product, the material costs, the time it takes to fabricate a lot of. I didn't originally start with that. Let me, let's be real. Now that I've kind of honed in and decide I really want to do this full time, then you've got to take the time to make your spreadsheets. Am I making enough per hour per this item? Or does that, is that when the price needs to change for an item, all that kind of stuff? I'm also very privileged to be working with polymer clay. My upfront costs aren't super high, but it is the time it takes me to make the things that really adds up. Yeah, Zach, what do you think about that? The spreadsheets and the kind of figuring out the budget, how important is all that up front? Right. It's very important. Oftentimes when somebody starts a small business, they start it because they're passionate about the product they're making. And that's what they enjoy. They may not necessarily enjoy the bookkeeping and the number crunching that goes on behind the scenes. But that's a very important part of owning your own business. And so the earlier on, you can get that established. You're going to set yourself up for success down the road. And the planning that goes into that piece is really important for a business. Yeah. We're talking about what it takes to turn handcrafted goods into a successful side hustle or small business. If you've got questions or comments, give us a call at 513-419-7100, or you can email talk at wvxu.org.

Taylor, how do you deal with the fluctuations? Like I would imagine some months you maybe make a lot of money because it's the holidays or whatever and other months are just really slow. How do you deal with that in terms of budgeting? Saving money is very important when, especially I'm only within my first two years of business. Saving money and being responsible in that aspect has saved me many times. I know that I'm going to work extra hard during the holiday season because the first few months of the next year are going to be really slow. And it's just preparing and setting yourself up for success. Danny, how about you? Do you have fluctuations? Or have you, like, figured out some scientific wizardry where you have no fluctuations with those? I definitely have fluctuations. I mean, there are definitely months that are better than others and certain products that times of years will sell better than others. But, yeah, you definitely want to have a lot of money sitting around in case of a slow month. And also, in my case, I buy a lot of, like, bulk. raw materials and they become less expensive when I buy more. So I do a lot of pre-planning or I know I need to spend a big chunk in a month or two on a big order of wood. So yeah. It's deceiving because the money in your bank account is not necessarily always available to use. Yeah, you have to know when to say no, I guess, to the splurges. Zach, how important is that, that saving? Is that the best way to deal with those fluctuations when you're in this kind of business? Certainly. I mean, one of the differences between, you know, a 40-hour work week and starting your own business is the fluctuations in your cash flow. And not only do you need to pay yourself, but you also need to... be aware of other payments that are going to be due out of your business. Taxes are one, self-employment taxes, expenses we already touched on. So, you know, forecasting the best you can, your expenses for the business, but for yourself, again, sets you up for success. I've talked with a lot of business owners, and they say that when they go out on their own and start a business, it's tough, but I have not heard anybody say it's not been the best decision that they've made. Okay. Well, what about taxes? I like the way you said taxes. It was like everybody brace for this word that's coming. Taxes. Taxes, yeah. How important, I mean, I imagine it's really important to keep good books, to keep those records. It is. How should people be thinking about that? Right. Being your own boss is great, but being your own payroll department is less great. So self-employment taxes are something that is unique to a self-employed individual. You know, typically when you're working for somebody else, they're going to pay those taxes for you or a portion of them and the other portion is going to come out of your paycheck. But when you are the owner, you're paying both ends of, you know, Medicare and Social Security taxes. So knowing that those expenses have to come out of your cash flow, setting them aside, setting aside additional funds for quarterly tax payments throughout the year is important. And that's, you know, that's when it becomes important to talk to somebody who.

is in this area. To help you along with this, there's plenty of great people in Cincinnati that work with self-employed individuals. Or if you're a self-learning and you want to tackle that too, that's great. Yeah. Does that mean like saving every receipt that you can possibly save, Taylor? What goes into that? I personally am a receipt saver. Yes, I am. Are you organized about it? I try my best to be. I could always improve. What about you, Danny? Was there a learning curve for you in terms of all that tax stuff? I think, yeah, like they said, just being organized and staying on top of it and knowing when deadlines are. I have a lot of calendar appointments and reminders in multiple ways, so I don't forget to pay things by certain deadlines. Yeah, that's very smart. Make the technology work for you. Absolutely. Yeah. So, Danny, what goes into deciding how to price what you sell? It seems like that can be tough because you don't want to cheat yourself, but you also want to sell it. So what goes into that? Yeah, definitely, like you said, there's multiple factors as well as the perception of what someone wants to pay for an item. I think, you know, it's a big world we live in. A lot of people make similar things, or in my case, you can buy something factory made with lower quality for half the price. And we know that, and that's okay. So I still want to be at a comfortable price point for people. And so it's definitely a tough game. But like I said, I got my spreadsheets and I do my material costing and my labor costing. And then the profit margin can maybe be a little negotiable from there. So yeah, and it's also I sell in person every weekend. So I'm able to talk with customers or see their in person reactions to maybe a new product or if a price change happens, sometimes totally fine. Not an eye is blanked and no big deal. And sometimes it's, okay, now I'm hesitating. Maybe this isn't the price point that's comfortable for people. Yeah. My husband has a story about the blink test. He knows a furniture maker in Canada who says a price, and then if the person doesn't blink, just keeps raising it until he gets that blink. So I don't know if that's your blink test, but what about you, Taylor? How do you decide how to price the things you're selling? So for me, it is... Nice for me that I don't have as much of an upfront cost as maybe woodworking would have. But that leaves me to need to time how long it takes me to make these tedious little pieces of fake food. And timing goes into it.

Definitely the reactions that you see at markets help you know if you're in the right price range. It gives you some comparison to maybe what is another vendor selling key chains for? It might not be polymer clay, but you can still use that to compare. And I think it's something that I personally still need to work on, not underpricing my items, because you don't want to scare people away, but also it is handmade art. And it is worth more than maybe what... I'm pricing even. It's a learning curve for sure. Yeah. And you want to be paying yourself. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Taylor, you've mentioned crowd fairs a couple of times. How hard is it to make money at a craft fair? I mean, you have to pay for the booths, right? I've been to a lot of crowd fairs where you see people sitting at tables where there's like nobody around, which always makes me sad. So how tough is that? It is. It's. It's hard. The first year that I ran Territrine, I tried to attend every market that I could because I wanted to learn. Every market might not be profitable, but I can tell you that I learned something from every single one of them that first year. And it... It depends a lot on finding a market with your demographic. It has a lot to do with the way your booth looks. I have updated my booth decor many times because I'm trying to strategically think of, okay, how are my products on my table going to catch someone's eye from across the aisle to make them come over? Yeah. So, Zach, it sounds like they're like marketing lessons in those. Correct. Correct. I can't speak to the marketing level of this. But I do want to touch on something that Taylor said, which is trying to find the price point for the product and doing kind of a market analysis of what are similar products going for. But I find too often that people are hesitant to charge what they really should be charging for their time and their products. And it's hard to do. And like Danny said, there's people that either get it or they don't. They get what you're selling and the time and the quality and the personal aspect of it. And there's people that just aren't going to. They don't go for that type of product, and that's fine. But you want to make sure that you're charging for what you deserve so you can support your business and your lifestyle and yourself. Yeah. I think another thing to add about markets is you cannot expect everyone to be your best. I've had amazing markets where maybe the vendor next to me had a really bad day, but my day was great. And I have been in the position of it being my bad day when my market vendor neighbor is making a killing. And that's okay. You have to accept that those days are going to happen and you cannot give up on yourself just because you had one bad day. Yeah. And Danny, you mentioned you sell in person. That's every weekend at Finley Market. Yes, that's correct. I see you there regularly. Do you also sell online?

I don't. Luckily, the people of Cincinnati and the tourists that visit the market have been very generous and understanding of, hey, I'm doing this and I'm trying to make a living and have supported me. And I am just so grateful that I don't have to sell online yet or hopefully ever. What about you, Taylor? You sell online? I do sell online. It is another beast for sure, learning keywords and how to get your listings to pop up for search results and things like that. It is super fun, but I'm still learning a lot. about selling online. Yeah. What have you found is the most effective for that? You mentioned keywords and SEO, but are there like online platforms that have worked for you? I personally sell on Etsy. When I first started, I definitely didn't have a social media following. So I wanted a platform that would bring me organic traffic without relying on a social media following. Okay. Okay, Zach, another question for you. Are there smart ways to use credit cards when you're getting started or should you avoid debt at all costs when you're starting a small business like this? Great question. So that goes into the capital side of this. It takes a lot of capital to start a business. And, you know, one thing I want to say is when you start a business, it can be easy to blend your personal assets. and your business assets. But from the start, those should be separate. Goes into the bookkeeping that Danny was talking about, keeping good books, keeping things separate. But debt allows us to access money that would allow us to grow businesses or whatnot, you know, get loans for houses. That's a personal thing. But debt can be good. Debt allows us to access money earlier to build things that we wouldn't otherwise be able to right now. So, you know, when considering when to use debt, you need to ask yourself, what am I using it for? Am I using it for something that I expect a return from? Okay, that's a good use of debt. What do I have to pay for the debt? A credit card, those rates are going to be high, right? I would rather go to the bank and see what kind of rate I can get from them. So, you know, look at the rate. What do I have to pay for the debt? And what am I using the debt for? Is it a good purpose? Is it going to help me out? Yeah. You were talking about keeping things separate in terms of expenses and that sort of thing. Does that mean even a separate business bank account, a separate business credit card if you need one of those? Absolutely. Absolutely. The. When you start a small business, the IRS loves to be your business partner and not in a good way. So the IRS likes to see that you are establishing a business and not a hobby. That is a real thing that they're trying to define between. And having those separate accounts, separate book keepings, help make that case for this is a business, not a hobby. Okay. Well, gosh, we've got like 30 seconds left, but super fast. Do either of you, what would your advice be for anybody who's trying to start one of this? If you've got a quick sentence of advice, what would you tell people? Do it. And, you know, tap your community and people you know for ways you can help or save money at the beginning, maybe sharing equipment or...

Finding some ways you can do it with lower risk, but do it. Okay. What about you, Taylor? I would say believe in yourself. You have to believe in yourself and go for it. Okay. Well, I have been talking with Suncraft Collective owner, Danny Fraley, Tara Twine owner, Taylor Krupensky, and Foster and Motley financial planner, Zach Losey. Thank you all so much for your time today. Thank you, Lucy. You've been listening to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. Our producer is Selena Reeder. Associate producer is Harper Carlton. Technical director is Carlos Lopez Cornu. If you miss our program live, you can find Cincinnati Edition wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lucy May. Thanks so much for listening.