Storms, Flock cameras, data centers and more top stories

More storms tear through the tri-state, uprooting trees and leaving thousands without power. This is Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Today on our weekly news review, the damage, the rain totals, and a look ahead to this week's forecast. Plus, could flot cameras be used to track women seeking abortion care in Ohio? White Governor Mike DeWine signed an executive order aimed at recovery houses, and a WBXU series examines data center development in the region. Joining me to kick off the news review are WCPO meteorologist Cameron Hardin. Thanks for being here, Cameron. No, absolutely. Appreciate you having me on. And WVXU, local government reporter Becca Costello. Welcome back, Becca. Thanks, Lucy. Cameron, tell us about this derachio that swept through the region. What is a derachio? And is this similar to what we had? And I think it was 2008 with the remnants of a hurricane that came through. Yeah, I mean, and it seems so long ago that that actually moved through just because we've been dealing with the flooding now for the last several days. But that comes through when you have the straight line winds. And usually when it's on the ground there for about 250 miles or so is kind of what the National Weather Service kind of classifies that as. And you need just straight line wins, not much rotation, not much anything other than that. But that's what causes a lot of issues because that's what we saw a lot of damage. blows over the trees. So it's not as popular as, say, a tornado. But when you get a damage path of at least 250 miles per hour with 58 mile per hour wind gusts and even above that, because we saw, I think, 68 was the top wind gust that we ended up getting from that. And that was out at the at Lincoln Airport. Obviously, that's why we have power still out for some residents three days later and a lot of cleanup still to happen. Yeah. So that's what was making all the sirens go off, those scary winds. Yeah, and there were tornado warnings. So that is different from like they're two separate things. Like there was some rotation, but this was a system that even with the tornado warnings, the National Weather Service did decide that there was not an actual tornado on the ground. But outside of that rotation that they were seeing on the radar is where the straight line winds were, which is where the severe thunderstorm warnings were. Okay. And you mentioned all the trees. I've seen so many pictures and videos of trees down. Some of them just completely uprooted. And that was the Durachio that did that. Yeah, and obviously we're so saturated on the ground too. So it's so much easier to have those roots completely ripped out of the ground when the soil is as wet as it is. So it was just the perfect combination of 60 plus mile power winds with way too much rain this entire month, this entire season really that just allowed a lot of those massive 50, 60 year old trees to get just completely uprooted. So how much rain did we get just so far in the region this week? It has been some of the craziest numbers that I have seen. There were places, especially in southeastern Indiana, you know, just across the border. We're talking like Connersville that saw about eight and a half inches of rain in a 24-hour time span, which obviously is...

unheard of, which is why you had so much flooding up there along Brookville and also up along the Whitewater River. They had massive evacuations happening. Water was up to five, six feet in some of the town homes and the town businesses up that way. And now all that water up to the north just funnels down into the rest of our area closer to southeastern Indiana. I was in Harrison today and then West Harrison, which is kind of right on the border of Indiana and Ohio, that river, the Whitewater River there. continues to climb even into Friday. So all that water goes somewhere and it impacts everyone in the region. Yeah. Some of our colleagues have been in Harrison, too. This morning, WBXU's Nick Swartsell spoke to Harrison residents who had to evacuate. Ken Napoli said emergency crews had to rescue him by boat. It was coming up. I mean, it went around my house and I was like, okay, so I'm stuck there. So then... I waited. It got a little higher. And then I fell asleep and I wake up to about a foot of water in my house. So Cameron is Indiana, the part of the region that's dealing with the flooding the most or which other parts of the region are dealing with flooding right now? Indiana definitely is dealing with it the most. The entire eastern half of the state, places like Muncie, Indiana, which is where Ball State is located. I know there's a lot of people here that go to Ball State. They saw an incredible amount of rain. Anywhere from 10 to nearly 10 inches to a foot of rain fell in a lot, not just like an isolated area in eastern half of Indiana, a massive amount of the state saw just insane flooding, 1,000-year flood type. rain totals, which we say that now more and more, unfortunately, but that's just kind of the way things have been going. So all that eventually trickles down into the Ohio River, but because it fell west of us, west of Cincinnati, I should say, we don't get... You know, the insane Ohio River looking shot there in downtown. Most of that kind of stays away from us. Even though that the Ohio River is in action stage, it's not expected to do anything remotely as crazy as what they're seeing in southeastern Indiana. So Cameron, have we broken any records when it comes to rainfall this week? Rainfall totals, I'm not exactly sure. I'm assuming, at least here in Cincinnati, because we didn't get nearly as much, probably not. But out there in southeastern Indiana, yeah, absolutely. And I do know that the Whitewater River out there near Brookville and near Laurel, which is where we've had a lot of crews out at, they did break a record in their river level. The previous level was about 16 and a half feet, and they broke that by about five feet. They were just shot. of 22, and that is a massive difference from an all-time record only getting to 16.8 to then nearly 22, unprecedented flooding like they have never seen there. So Cameron, what's the forecast for tonight and into the weekend?

You know, I wish I could be like, oh, you know, we're in the clear now. We're not going to be dealing with a whole lot for Saturday and Sunday both. It's not going to be widespread rain. It's not a washout by any means. But in the afternoon each day, better chance I'd say Saturday. But you're going to have those pop-up showers and storms. It's also going to be really hot. Saturday and Sunday are hot, humid. Your air temperatures hit 90. You're feeling like the triple digits for portions of the afternoon. And then by the time we get to Sunday night into Monday, we finally start to see some of that clear on out. And then we get some dry conditions. It looks like a lot of next week is dry for the most part with somewhat cooler air. But the way things have been going, I'd expect humidity to stay pretty high. Well, Becca, Cameron mentioned so many people lost power. The power outages have been a big problem for people across the region this week. How many Duke energies... energy customers lost power Tuesday? Well, at the peak at any one time, there was about 180,000 customers out of power. Now, that's homes and businesses. So obviously, the number of actual people affected is likely much, much higher considering the number of people in any one household. And that number has been slowly coming down. But keep in mind, some folks seem to have lost power, got it back, and then lost it again. So it's been up and down, it seems like, all week. As of about 1045, this morning on Friday. There are still about 10,600 customers still out of power. Many of them have been without power since Tuesday afternoon. So, and we're doing this recording right before 11 a.m. These numbers can change. Like you said, it's up and down, up and down. we hope mostly down for people. And of course, these numbers could change dramatically by the time this conversation repeats at 8 p.m. So just in case anybody's listening to make sure they're clear on that, what has made it more difficult for Duke to restore power quickly to its customers this week? Well, there's a couple things. One, Duke Energy calls this a high vegetative event. And what that means is lots of trees down, lots of limbs down, and really destroying power lines. And those are not as simple as just, you know, reconnecting a power line. Some of these situations are very complicated. Duke did bring in, they say, about 2,000 additional workers. That includes about 1,000 additional line workers. Other workers that are helping with this effort brought in initially from Indiana and also North Carolina. Now, it's worth noting many customers who lost power in eastern Indiana, kind of on that border with Ohio, regained power pretty quickly early in this week. But now many areas have lost power again. because of the additional weather. And that's the other issue that Duke has been facing is, you know, when you need to put a worker in a bucket truck up, you know, up next to a power line with a tree, they can't do that when it's lightning. It's not as easy to do that when there's rain, when there's fog. And there's been just continual inclement weather throughout the week while they're trying to make those repairs. I will say I spoke to a Duke Energy spokesperson today. As of about 11 a.m., they are saying they aim to have all customers restored by 6 p.m. on 4. Friday. Now, whether that actually happens is it remains to be seen, the outage map does have estimated time restorations for many situations. Not all of them have that estimated restoration time yet. Some are saying as early as this afternoon, that would be Friday afternoon. Some are saying over the night, overnight on Friday night, but as I said, the spokesperson did say to us directly that they are hoping to have all customers back online by 6 p.m. Friday. And where's the best way

for people to have a feel for who still has power or who still doesn't have power? Isn't there some kind of outage map or something that people can look at? That's right. On the Duke Energy website, let me look up this exact URL here. It's outagemap.duke-energy.com. When you get to that landing page, you'll click on the state or region that you're looking for. So there's one for Ohio and Kentucky. That's technically a separate entity. And then you'll have to click to Indiana to see anything on that border with Ohio as well. It gives an overall estimate. So right now the map is showing 10,644 customers in both Ohio and Kentucky that are currently out of power. And then you can zoom in to any specific area of the map. The more you zoom in, the more you can see that we're really talking about in some cases, very, very small pocket. So I'm looking at one area here, you know, in the eastern part of Cincinnati. We've got one outage affecting 13 customers right next door, one outage affecting three customers. A little bit north of that, one outage for 108 customers. very small pockets that really add up to a large number of people that are still out of power. But you should be able to see those. And then in most cases, if you click on the actual outage in the specific area, it'll tell you an estimated time of restoration. And you can also, on that map, search for a specific address if that's easier. So, Becca, for the people who are still without power, This has probably felt like a very long week, I guess. We've been kind of lucky. I just bought donuts this morning. And the nice man at the donut place told me that he had lost power earlier this week. But it was cool enough to open the windows this weekend. That sounds like it's going to be so hot and muggy. But you said Duke is saying they're hoping. By 6 p.m. Friday, they can get restored for everybody. That's the plan. So the full statement, I'll just read it word for word. This is from Communications Director for Duke Energy, Ohio, Kentucky, John Jewick. He says, we continue to have a full complement of crews in the field and additional resources restoring power. We are working through the most challenging situations now. We are aiming to have all customers restored by 6 p.m. tonight. That's Friday. We appreciate all of our customers' patience as we work. to respond to this extraordinary weather event. Juick did tell me I've been checking in with him several times this week, as you can imagine, they've been doing lots of interviews, but have learned throughout the week that this is perhaps the most significant storm that Duke has responded to at least since 2009, just in terms of the number of outages, in terms of the number of additional resources that have been brought in to respond to this event. So it's certainly a very, very significant event. Another thing that's come up every time I've talked to John Jewick is urging people to take caution.

There are downed lines, I believe still on Friday, you know, a few days after that major storm on Tuesday afternoon. Jewick says to assume that any downed power lines you see are live and to avoid them. Now, obviously, many of those have been turned off, but to be very, very safe, avoid any down power lines and you can report them to 911 and to Duke Energy. You know, I'm seeing photos on social media, photos that friends are sending from all across the region with trees down in on-site. sidewalk, some trees still blocking roadways. This was just such a significant event with major tree damage and limb damage. And that's really a big reason why it's taking so long. Another thing I talked to Joach about, though, was, you know, what is the, once the restorations are complete and the cleanup has really started in earnest, what are the next future steps? And he told me, you know, after every major storm, Duke Energy does kind of an analysis of the response and what happened. He said this, of course, will happen again with this storm, considering how significant. and also that Duke is continually looking at how to make the infrastructure more resilient to avoid outages of this scale in the future. Now, of course, there are challenges. I've heard folks ask questions like, why don't we bury our lines underground? That would certainly be a very expensive and very difficult thing to do. So that's not to say it's not on the table, but what Duke has told me is that they will certainly be looking at any ways they can to make this infrastructure more resilient. And I think they realized really how significant this is. You know, three days without power is an incredible hardship for anyone to deal with. Yeah. Well, I've been talking with WCPO meteorologist Cameron Hardin and WVXU local government reporter, Becca Costello. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you, Lucy. Up next, new fears over flock cameras. This is Cincinnati Edition. Could flock cameras be used to track women seeking abortion care in Ohio? You're listening to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Joining me now to talk about concerns over how the cameras could be used and other news from Columbus are Ohio Public Media State House News Bureau reporter and producer Joe Ingalls and Cleveland.com chief politics reporter Jeremy Pelser. Welcome back, Joe and Jeremy. Thanks for having me. Jeremy, there's been a lot of debate over the use of flock cameras. Can you quickly explain what they are and what they do? Black cameras are automated license plate readers. They're set up at thousands of different locations in dozens of cities around Ohio, and they track license plates and then catalog them. So if you want to track where, and using artificial intelligence, so if you want to track where a suspect is going, you can just... request, show me, you know, license plate hits, given this license plate number, and it'll pop up, oh, this camera caught it here and here and here and here. So proponents of it say that it's really good to...

catch suspects to find, you know, everyone from suspected of the terrorists to people in need of rescue who are, you know, being kidnapped or on the run. And critics, though, are raising civil liberties concerns that license plates are being tracked so vociferously and then cataloged in the database that different law enforcement can access. Well, Joe abortion rights supporters are particularly concerned. Explain why. Well, there's a case that was cited by Jamie Miracle, who is the deputy director of abortion forward. And she says this case was out of Texas. And she says that the flock cameras were used to track a woman from Texas who came to Ohio, specifically Columbus, to get an abortion. And her takeaway, Jamie's takeaway. was that, you know, this shouldn't be used to track women who go to another state to get an abortion. Of course, in Texas, she couldn't get an abortion because it was illegal. And there are, we know, other women coming from other states to Ohio to get abortions. And so that's a concern of theirs because they feel like it's a way for the other states to kind of enforce their laws and enforce them with these flock cameras. How many of the abortions in Ohio are performed on out-of-state patients? Oh, I have that information. It's in the abortion report and I haven't pulled it up. Let me look. Let me look. There's a significant amount. I think your story said maybe like 20 percent, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine and Attorney General Andy Wilson spoke out in favor of the cameras this week. Do they have any concerns about the technology being used inappropriately? They have concerns, but they said those concerns are not any more than people, law enforcement, misusing any public record searches. So you have instances where law enforcement will maybe look up an ex-girlfriend or do a search for someone that is not allowed. And so while they say the same sort of misuse could happen with these flock cameras, that's... The benefits of having these flot cameras outweigh the concerns raised by that. Well, Jeremy, what do they say about the benefits? What are the kinds of cases they say flock cameras can help solve?

It's a lot of the same cases that I think I mentioned earlier. So everything from fleeing suspects to finding missing persons, missing people, and that they say it's just a really good tool. And I think as Governor Mike DeWine put it, you know, any tool can. has the possibility of being abused, but that doesn't mean the tool is not an effective tool. They can, they cite, they said you can look at case after case where it helps them recover stolen vehicles or solve crimes, find missing people. And so they, and this isn't surprising, by the way, because both Governor Mike DeWine. And Attorney General Wilson are former county prosecutors with along history and law enforcement. So it's not particularly surprising that they're taking the side of this being a useful tool as opposed to being an Orwellian eye on people's lives. Jeremy, do you know how many flock cameras there are in Ohio in use, roughly? I believe it's tens of thousands. I don't know. I tried to find an answer for that, and I'm not exactly sure of the exact number. Tens of thousands certainly gives you an idea. It's a whole lot. Yeah, I mean, they're in dozens of cities because these are. bought and operated by local municipalities. There's not just one agency that runs all of these. However, as I said, as the case that Joe was talking about, if you're a Texas official and you're trying to find someone for any reason, you can go to, say, since the city of Cincinnati or Columbus or Cleveland or any local jurisdiction and say, hey, can you run, you know, this license plate through your database and see if there's any hits. Joe, I know this conversation was happening related to what the city of Columbus is considering. How much does Columbus share its data that gets collected by these flock cameras? Well, it was sharing it a lot more, but recently Columbus has kind of taken itself out of the sharing network in some ways, but it still shares a lot of information because it's got contracts with different police agencies, organizations. So, but I mean, there is a whole, they're having discussions of Columbus and they're having hearings, and they're. All of what they're doing now is up for debate. So what they're doing now may very well be changed in the future. Yeah. Do either of you know, is there any talk of state legislation related to license plate readers like this?

I have not heard any yet. That doesn't mean there won't be. Yeah. Right. Hard to predict what might happen. Well, Joe, let's talk about the emergency executive order that Governor Mike DeWine signed this week related to recovery housing. What does that order do? Well, the recovery housing is for, it's kind of, I think some people call them like a halfway house. And what they are is basically a place where people who are trying to recover from a drug addiction, alcohol addiction, something like that, they can go to this housing situation where there might be other people in the same situation. And they can, you know, stay away from the drugs, the alcohol. It makes it easier for them to react. and after they come out of some sort of substance abuse program. And so there are recovery houses all throughout the state. But the thing is that Governor Mike DeWine in this order, he's giving the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health the ability to actually certify those housing, that housing in the future because there have been a lot of questions about that housing and whether some of it maybe isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. So the state would like to start accrediting the housing, especially if there are any dollars coming through to it as pass through dollars from a government agency. Jeremy, can you talk more about what the governor says the problem is he's trying to address with this executive order? Yeah, so the governor and administration officials, they're saying that... In the past four years, the number of recovery houses in Ohio has jumped nearly 400%. So back in 2022, for example, and up until now, the state just maintained a registry, but then they delegated accreditation for these recovery houses to a couple of outside nonprofits. But now they're saying there are so many of these recovery houses, I think it's something about nearly 1,700 of them around the state, that... the state now needs to step in. State Representative Justin Pazuli from Saito County talked about instances where some of these houses are designed to have four or five people in them, but there's 10 people in them with bunk beds and the plumbing isn't able to handle that number of people. They're infested with insects or mice or other things. And he said, you know, the last thing you need for people trying to recover from a drug addiction. is encountering things like this, just poor unsanitary living conditions. And bringing this under state control, he said, and the governor says we'll help do them. Well, Joe, you mentioned that the idea is to have the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health certify these places. Will this require more staffing there at that department?

Yes, it will. And they are, the governor is saying, you know, that there's going to be more staffing. The agency has begun hiring for survey staffers, according to the director, Tia Marcel Moretti. And, you know, of course, we're talking about Governor Mike DeWine and this order. And basically, he. You know, he only has a few months left. So what happens, you know, in January, is the staffing going to continue to be ramped up? Is there going to be a hold on it? When the new governor comes in, that all remains up to question. But for right now, as this executive order remains in effect, they are trying to get more people involved who can actually check on this recovery housing. Jeremy Joe just mentioned, you know, the governor doesn't have all that much longer in office. And this order, as I understand it, is temporary. Could it possibly become a permanent change? Could there be legislation that accomplishes this long term? There is legislation already pending that that would do a lot of what the governor's executive order does on a temporary basis. So the governor's temporary order under state law only lasts for 120 days. So he and the Department of Behavioral Health, they've said they're going to try to make this a permanent rule later on this fall before the temporary rule expires. But meanwhile, there's this legislation that represented Pizzuli, who I mentioned, is co-sponsoring that would put a lot of this into state law permanently. That's already passed the Ohio House. And now it's up to the Ohio Senate to decide what, if anything, to do about it when they come back for Lane Duck session after the election's over. Jeremy, you mentioned earlier that there are these two other organizations that have been handling the accreditation of recovery housing before this executive order. Do you know are all the recovery houses in the state accredited? I mean, are there some operating without that accreditation? Administration officials at this press conference and Representative Pizzuli said anecdotally, absolutely there are. There are a number of houses that just are off the radar and no one is verifying whether they are maintaining anything approaching, you know, habitable standards. And, you know, there's also other issues, too, about if you're connecting these recovery houses to going to treatment with a particular person or organization. You know, there's a lot of different rules and safety protocols to work out. And that's where the state comes in, according to these officials. Joe, what's the incentive for operating these recovery houses if you're not getting accredited? Can they be profitable for the people who run them?

It could be, depending on how they run. And they could, like I said, they could tap into some government dollars that come through like the ADAMH organizations, local facilities like that. They can get money from that in certain circumstances. Well, Joe, I want to change gears just a little bit here. Tell us about this lawsuit that Ohio has filed against the online gaming platform Roblox. Yeah, Roblox is an online gaming platform that, like you said, but it features virtual world. So I'm not really sure. I'm not a gaming person. But I think this is kind of like the Sims or something like that. You know, it's a Sim city kind of thing where it's like different, they create different environments and function, you know. It was geared to children, though. They were, you know, they were. When the creators who put this out there, they're allowing other... people to come on the website, basically, register, and then, you know, create this world that other people can get involved with and be part of. The initial thing was that it was supposed to be safe for children, that they were going to check the ages, they were going to make sure that, you know, you didn't have kids getting on there, just to protect kids because online predators are a problem, and especially in, you know, gaming and situations. like this, they wanted to make sure they were protected. So what happened was a lot of people started investing in them because they, you know, having an online gaming system that seemed like it was child friendly or, you know, something that you could make sure that you didn't have a bunch of little kids on it, you know, doing things, that that would be okay, right? And so a lot of people went in. and made these promises. But what actually happened is when they started trying to enforce these regulations so that you didn't have kids getting on different places, doing different things, it kind of slowed their progress. And so I guess they've gone back to, you know, not delivering on that child, you know, friendly piece and not checking the, to make sure as much that the younger kids can't get on that. And so now there's like two parts to a lawsuit.

One is this idea of whether this Roblox has been marketed as a safe place for kids. And the other part of the lawsuit is the two of the state pension plans had invested in Roblox. And they invested in in Roblox when there was the mandatory age verification and separate accounts for kids, 16 and under, that kind of thing. That's when they invested in it. And then once the Roblox changed this and the stock value dropped, the state teacher's retirement system and the public employee's retirement system lost money. And so that's been something at $21.5 million for the two pension funds, by the way. And so that's been something that some other states have been looking at. They've been going after Roblox and they've settled with five states, I believe. And Ohio is going after them now, too, for the same thing. Really fascinating. I know you're going to keep following that. Jeremy, I want to come back to you. We talked with you a few weeks ago about questions your readers have for the people running to be Ohio's next governor and your efforts to get answers. And you now have answers from at least a couple of them about recreational marijuana. Remind us first when recreational marijuana became legal in Ohio. Well, voters. decided back in November, 2023, to legalize marijuana. And the following year, it began to be sold in dispensaries around the state. And Ohio's next governor is going to play a key role in determining where Ohio goes from here, both in terms of marijuana regulations, which not only include whether to keep it legal, because it's a state law, not a constitutional amendment. So the legislature could pass a lot of morrow banning recreational marijuana. But then there's also issues of even if you keep legal, like how much do you tax it? How many dispensaries do you allow? How much THC do you allow? All these different things will be up for grabs, as well as the issue of hemp drinks, like these THC drinks that... Ohio moved to ban, and now it looks like there's going to be a ban coming in the coming months on the federal level. So there's a bunch of different issues that Ohio's next governor will have to look at about this. And so where do the candidates stand? Well, for Amy Acton, her campaign at least, has said that she favors keeping Ohio's recreational marijuana law on the books. However, beyond that, they didn't offer a whole lot of details. She also said she would fight to keep some sort of framework, regulatory framework, allowing THC drinks derived from hemp.

Of course, that's up in the air with the ongoing or upcoming federal ban. But in terms of like, and she also said she would keep the current 10% tax rate as well. But that's kind of where she's state her position. Vivek Ramaswamy, his campaign again, did not respond to the questions that I sent about it. However, he has said on the 2024 presidential campaign trail, he's kind of offered a kind of a nuanced position. He said he voted against the ballot measure to legalize marijuana, recreational marijuana in Ohio, but that he did so because he didn't want state law to contradict federal law. And then he also has said that he, on the federal level, recreational marijuana should be. legal. So he hasn't really said where he stands or what he would do as governor about cannabis policy. But that's what he said in the past about it at least. And what about the libertarian and the race candidate Don Kissick? Don Kissick actually has, at least for the purposes of my story, offered the most fully fleshed out position. He, not surprisingly, for a libertarian, doesn't want the government to regulate, or pardon me, to ban recreational marijuana, but he does favor regulations designed to protect, for example, children from advertising, prevent people on marijuana from driving. Although he does want to change that to only allow people to be convicted of an OVI on marijuana if they're actually impaired as opposed to just taking a test because critics say that drivers can test above legal limits long after the intoxicating effects wear off. So he's offered a number of detailed plans that basically say, well, we should have these safeguards in place, but we should keep recreational marijuana legal. While I have been talking with Ohio Public Media, Statehouse News Bureau, reporter and producer Joe Engels, and Cleveland.com chief politics reporter Jeremy Pelser. Thank you both so much for your time today. Up next, a new series delves into data centers and the issues surrounding their development. This is Cincinnati Edition. Data centers are dominating headlines and social feeds. Now a WVXU series is delving into the issues surrounding their development. You're tuned to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Joining me now to discuss the series, our WVXU Environment Reporter, Isabel Nisley, and investigative reporter, Nick Swartzel. Welcome back, Nick and Isabel. Thanks, Lucy. Wow, that was in unison. Very impressive. We practiced. Yeah, no kidding. Well done. Synchronized swimming here in the studio. So you two have been working on this four-part series about data centers. How did you pick which data centers to focus on? I'll start. So we were both working independently on at least one story about data centers before we had the idea for this series. And we realized that each one.

Well, there are a number of issues and concerns and questions people have about data centers. Some proposals or data centers in progress kind of exemplified certain... angles of that better than others. And so the first one that I did in Maysville really spoke to me and I think speaks to a lot of people in terms of the way land is used and questions about, you know, where should a data center go and like what are the tradeoffs of putting it in a certain place in a rural area especially. And so that's kind of like how we zoomed in on that one. And then Isabel can talk a little bit more about hers. Yeah. So I focused on a... proposed data center in Trenton, where residents are very concerned about transparency and also kind of what resident involvement looks like with the government, with the developer in huge projects like these. And then in Adams County, I'm currently looking at the electric grid and utility bills around this proposal to create a big data center that would use more than 1,300 megawatts of electricity near the former Stewart power plant there. Okay. Well, that's a little sneak peek into what we haven't heard yet, what you're working on. That's great. Let's start with Maysville. Nick, it seems like the details surrounding the project there are a little bit fuzzy. What do we know about the potential data center and the timeline there? Sure. So the details are fuzzy because officials there and landowners who have agreed to sell their land have signed non-disclosure agreements, which is a common thing with data centers when a company is. thinking about putting one in an area. So what we know is this is a large company, like one of, I think people have been saying Fortune 10 company, Fortune 50 company, and it is going to be a very large site, like hundreds of acres. Beyond that, There have been some promises about, well, you know, the company's going to pay for the power that they use and some of the other things in terms of taxes. There's some different ideas about how much tax they're going to pay, but they're going to not get a huge incentive. But beyond that, there's a lot that isn't known yet. And the data center isn't for sure coming yet. They are looking very closely at this area. They're buying up land, but it's not 100% yet. You mentioned they're buying up land. People have already gotten notice that they need to move from some land where this project might be located, right? That's right. There is a mobile home park on a portion of the land that's home to about two dozen people. And those folks, the people that own the land underneath the mobile home park or underneath the mobile homes, I guess, meadowland is what it's called. The owners of that land have signed an agreement that they're selling. And they've told the residents of the mobile home park like, hey, you need to move your mobile homes because this land's going to become part of the data center, you know, complex. How hard is that to do to move a mobile home? Apparently, it is more difficult than you think. They are.

More mobile than a regular house, but not very mobile. And when you move them, there's a lot of consideration about being very careful to keep the structure intact. There's usually some repair that needs to be done once you move it. And so you're talking tens of thousands of dollars generally. Well, there are supporters of this project in Mason County. Here's Judge Executive Owen McNeil. If at a minimum, these guys bring in 400 high-paying career-sustaining, family-sustaining jobs, that makes them the largest employer in northeastern Kentucky easily. And, I mean, that's pretty good opportunity. So, Nick, he's talking about jobs there. Are there other arguments that supporters are making for why this could be good for the area? Yes, yes. So Mason County generally has a rural agrarian economy. There is some industry there, but a lot of the economy is based around farming. And what supporters, like the judge executive, would say is that. That economy needs to be diversified. It needs to be modernized. And this is an opportunity to do that. And he says that will shore up their tax base so they can pay for infrastructure, water infrastructure, roads, that kind of thing that right now is difficult for the county to do. He also points out or says that this won't just be a data center. It'll be a kind of tech campus and that that will provide. graduates from, you know, local high schools a pathway into the tech industry. Hasn't there been a lawsuit filed over this? There has. Because Mason County has a comprehensive plan and because they have done some zoning, they... have been challenged in court because the zoning didn't include any planning for data centers because this is a relatively new idea. And so the lawsuit is basically saying like, hey, like, you didn't take into account data centers when you made this plan. You need to plan for data centers specifically and then zone for them. then you haven't done that. Yeah. You mentioned that the judge executive is saying, hey, this could help diversify the economy. You talked with a professor whose organization helped the county draw up a comprehensive plan a couple years ago. What did she say about all this? She said that... This is a person who has studied kind of data centers throughout the state and their economic impacts. And she said that generally the long-term economic impacts of data centers is pretty mixed. They don't create a ton of jobs generally. But it all depends, she said, on the deal that gets reached between the data center company and the county. So it could be a big boon for the county if they're paying all their taxes, if they're willing to help support schools, all that kind of thing.

It's not a guarantee. And until you know exactly what's in the deal, it's hard to say. Yeah. Well, Isabel, let's talk about Trenton. That project, it sounds like it's farther along. How long has it been in the works? When did residents there find out about it? Yeah, it's been in the works for more than two years. In April 2024, the city agreed to sell more than 140 acres of land to this California-based developer Prologis. And the purchase agreement developed Prologis' intentions to build and operate a nearly 1 million square foot data center in Trenton. But most residents didn't find out about the project until nearly a year later in fall of 2025 when that sale finally closed. And many said it came as a shock to them. Was that because of nondisclosure agreements, like Nick just said? It could have been because of nondisclosure agreements. The city manager did sign one. And at the time that residents found out about the project, neither the city or developer had really released any plans or details or studies leaving residents with a lot more unanswered questions. Well, what are some of the concerns residents are raising about this project? Yeah, they have questions from water use to environmental impacts to noise and light. I mean, they've heard from people in other communities with data centers who say these huge facilities with their big computers and constantly running cooling systems create issues. a never-ending humming noise or air pollution or strain on local water systems. And entrantin folks are worried about experiencing these same things in their backyard once this data center is up and running. And kind of underlying all of these concerns are questions about transparency. They want more studies done. They want more openness from their government. And when they raise concerns and questions, they just want to feel like they're being kind of heard and responded to. Yeah. What did city officials tell you about how they prepared for all this and kind of took some of those? concerns into consideration. Yeah, so the city manager, Marcos Nichols, says the city anticipated the data center would be different than other industrial developments in town like Carvana or Shape Corp. That's why council voted to create a special IT zoning district, which puts in place requirements for the data center, like the buildings need to be further back from the property line than, you know, a traditional industrial development. It needs to have an eight-foot berm or barrier with trees on it to buffer noise and light. Yeah. Well, Nick mentioned that there's discussion in Maysville about who's going to pay for water use and all that kind of stuff. What has the developer in Trenton said about who would pay for water use, electricity costs, power system upgrades, all those kinds of things? Yeah, the developer says it's going to pay its own way.

Huh. Okay. And you mentioned the city manager had to sign a non-disclosure agreement related to this project. Is that the big transparency issue that so many residents are concerned about? It definitely plays into it. I mean, I talked with one resident Lori Blankenship, and she said learning about this NDA only intensifies her transparency concerns. And she says part of that is because to even get a copy of this NDA from the city by making public records request, she had to file a court of claims complaint to even get the document. So she just has questions about how open everyone's being and what information might be being kept from the public. concerns about transparency related to data centers, that's not unique to trend, right, Isabel? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, people in cities around Ohio with proposed data center projects, like from Pickwood to Adams County to Kashokton, they're all kind of raising questions about, why didn't we learn about the project sooner? And what doesn't entail? Who's paying? What are the water uses like? So definitely statewide. And there are kind of several reasons for this. But part of it is the pace of data center expansion in Ohio. I mean, there are more than two projects that are currently underway or proposed. Yeah. Nick was telling us about the lawsuit filed related to Mason County or residents in Trenton pushing back in some way. Certainly. There's a group called Water or Woodstill in Trenton Environmental Resistance. They push back against this current project. They're pushing against a second proposed project that would be on 600 acres that the city is trying to annex in right now. And they've done things like trying to put a ballot initiative on the November. ballot to ban large-scale data center. So certainly organized opposition here. And Nick, for the folks on this mobile home park, what's next for them? It's unclear. It depends on how this lawsuit goes, because that's kind of held things up a little bit, but they're preparing to move. Well, when should we expect to see and hear the next story in this series? So Tuesday, we'll have a kind of explainer piece about the environmental issues around data centers. It's not... like centered around anyone, it's kind of statewide and even in Kentucky and Indiana. Okay. All right. Well, that's exciting. We'll keep an eye out. I've been talking with WVXU investigative reporter Nick Sportsell, an environment reporter, Isabelle Nisley. Thank you both so much for your time today. Thanks, Lucy. Thanks, Lucy. You've been listening to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. Our producer is Selena Reeder. Associate producer is Harper Carlton. Technical director is Carlos Lopez Cornew. If you miss our program live, you can find Cincinnati Edition wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lucy May. Thanks so much for listening.

Thank you.