City Politics: E-Bike Regulations and AOC's Path to 2028

It's the Brian Lara Show. On WNYC, good morning, everyone. On yesterday's show, we talked with New Yorker writer, John Alsop, about a word we're hearing a lot these days in the midterm election campaigns, moderate. John's article was called, What does it even mean to be a moderate? Today we'll talk about another word being used a lot in politics, mostly as an accusation by Republicans these days. That word is woke. The news hook here is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez distancing herself on TV this week from a period of time she calls Woke 1. We'll replay that clip and talk to Jasmine Green from the bulwark, who has a new article about the evolution of the word, what it got wrong, but also right for today. In her opinion, that's coming up second on the show today. First, today we'll talk about where e-bikes fit into the political rivalry between mayors Zohran Mamdani and city council speaker, Julie Menon. Maybe the professional and political relationship between Zohran Mamdani and Menon is a sign of a functioning local government, you know, a healthy kind of competition. At least in theory, city council is supposed to provide a check on the mayor and vice versa, right? Zohran Mamdani and Menon may represent competing fast. actions within their party. They may disagree over housing vouchers and city-funded grocery stores and other things. On e-bikes, though, they are largely aligned, though not entirely, we'll explain. The recent death of a teenage boy writing an illegal e-bike without a helmet, no less, has made the issue all the more pressing. It happened very, very close to City Hall. right by the Brooklyn Bridge bike lane exit. 17-year-old Gabriel Nakato killed July 29th on a bike that could hit 30 miles an hour twice the legal limit in the city for these devices. And Nakato's death is the 12th attributable to e-bikes in New York City so far this year alone, according to city stats. So maybe now there's some momentum building for new kinds of e-bike regulation in a city where they have, of course, become ubiquitous. Our Liz Kim, who will join us in a minute, writes, the growing political rivalry between council speaker Julie Menon and mayors Zohran Mamdani appears to be adding an accelerant to the effort to the effort to regulate e-bikes. A little background on that since the crash. Zohran Mamdani has issued cease and desist orders to 42 online retailers, including Amazon, Best Buy, Timu, selling certain kinds of e-bikes that are illegal to ride in the city, with $2,000 per bike fines kicking in for violators starting August 18th. Speaker Menon has bundled 17.

previously introduced bills into a single legislative package covering everything from vehicle speed limits to delivery app licensing with a council hearing set for September 30th. Liz Kim's story in Gothamist, originally from the politics brief newsletter, subscribe to that newsletter if you like, had the headline, well, the Zohran Mamdani men in rivalry boost regulations of e-bikes in New York City. Speaking of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who I mentioned in the intro, we'll be talking about later. Liz also has a story about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's political future. She could be gearing up for a run for the presidency, as some of you know. And Liz thanks Abdul al-Siyadh's Senate primary win in Michigan. may inform Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's thinking. Liz wrote about that, and we'll touch on that as kind of a second part of this segment. Liz Kim joins me now. Hey, Liz, always good to have you on. Good morning, Brian. And listeners, you're invited on either topic. Let's do e-bikes first, then we'll get to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and running for president. If you ride an e-bike or if you've had a close call with one as a pedestrian or regular cyclist, what would actually make you feel safer on these streets? 212, 433. WNYC, 212, 433, 9692, or maybe you're a delivery worker and you don't want to see the city freak out and over-regulate you in a way that may put your livelihood at risk or even your immigration status. So anyone with a story or a question about e-bike and more broadly what we call micromobility vehicle regulation. You're welcome in with a comment, a story or a question. 212-433. WNYC, 212, 433-9-6-9-2. Text thread is open, phone lines are open, and we'll get to the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez calls and text later. Liz, first, when we say e-bikes, is that really a shorthand for a variety of micromobility vehicles that could also include motorized scooters and maybe more? I think that's right, Brian. I mean, there are a class of vehicles that can go as fast as 40 miles an hour that look kind of like a cross between a bicycle and a moped. And sometimes they're labeled e-motos. But I think, you know, for shorthand, we often focus on e-scooters and e-bikes because I think also those are the most common ones we've seen on the street. And I think your story or some of our reporting uses the term electric motorbike, electric motorbike for the vehicle that the 17-year-old was killed on. Is that different from anything you just referred to?

You know, you can certainly use that term. I've heard his bike being called an e-moto. I think the big takeaway about all these types of bikes is that they're actually illegal in New York City. So, yeah, Mayor Mundi sent scenes and desist letters to 42 online retailers, as I mentioned in the intro, with $2,000 per bike fines starting August 18th for continued sales of illegal e-bikes. Here's a short clip of the mayor. It is hard for New Yorkers to keep up with what is legal or illegal if they're able to buy it online. So, Liz, what makes an e-bike legal or illegal? Well, so if an e-scooter can go faster than 20 miles per hour, and when I'm saying is capable of speeds surpassing 20 miles per hour, that's technically illegal under the city's law. If an e-bike has the capacity to exceed a speed of 25 miles per hour, That is also technically illegal. And then on top of that, you have the speed limit for both kinds of devices in New York City. It caps out at 15 miles per hour. So that's a lot of different kinds of speed limits. And I can already anticipate callers saying that they have often seen or feel like they've seen a lot of vehicles who are surpassing both the 15 miles per hour and even the 20 and 25 miles per hour. So how does the city actually enforce a fine that the mayor referred to there against an online marketplace? Because he's talking about the marketplaces, right? The places that sell them, Amazon, Timu, Best Buy. Right. This is what they call a point of sale. type of legal action that the city is taking. And it's important to point out that this law, that these types of vehicles have been illegal, that's been on the books for six years now. But yet we've seen these bikes proliferate in the city, especially during the pandemic when people were making all kinds of food delivery orders and, you know, other, you know, other kinds of delivery orders. But now what the mayor has decided to do is he's actually, he's doing a legal action against these types of online retailers. But I think in many ways, he's trying to send a message. You know, it's a kind of, I think. political and also legal posturing. He held that press conference where he told reporters that he had issued these 42 cease and desist letters, but he was also like calling these companies in to have conversations with City Hall about what can we do to make sure that these bikes are not sold in New York City. But that does, though, Brian get at the other question, which is...

What is the city doing about the bikes that are already here? What does the city do about bikes that can be purchased on the underground market? Or what if someone goes to another state like Pennsylvania that perhaps doesn't have these kinds of bans and purchases a bike there? So there's a lot to be said about what this cease and desist legal action doesn't do. But I think what the mayor has done is he has kind of sent a message. To these very big online retailers, you know, you named Amazon. I think Walmart was in there as well. Timu, Best Buy. He's sending a very strong message to them that, you know, we as a city need to do something about it. We don't want these bikes sold. We also don't want them marketed to New York City residents. Is it that these mainstream retailers are selling things that are illegal? Like, you don't think. Generally, you can just go on Amazon and Walmart, whatever, and buy illegal stuff, or... Is it that these bikes that go certain speed, et cetera, are illegal in New York City, but legal elsewhere? That's correct, Brian. And that's why, you know, that doesn't, you know, Zohran Mamdani's action doesn't resolve the question of what happens if someone just crosses state lines and can legally purchase, you know, a bike that exceeds 25 miles per hour, you know, in another state and then just brings it back to New York City. You know, these bikes. are legal in other places. The question is, is how do you prevent them from being sold and delivered here? You know, I think that a point that is often lost, you know, when we're talking about these e-bikes, because really what has changed and sort of, you know, you quoted what I wrote in that newsletter is that, you know, there's been an... kind of an accelerant to the effort to regulate them. The thing that has changed about e-bikes, e- scooters, you know, the battle over the city streets is speed. You know, I think there was always a conversation about, you know, how do cyclists sort of share the road with cars? How do they share the road with pedestrians? But what has made this issue, ever more urgent is because now they are capable of speeds where a collision can mean that they kill each other. And, you know, you cited that accident, that really tragic accident involving the teenage boy right outside City Hall. Prior to that, there was a collision on the 59th Street Bridge in which a man with an e-scooter. And it's not clear that he was going this fast, but it was determined that that type of e-scooter was capable of reaching 53 miles per hour. So a man riding that type of illegal scooter collided with a man on a traditional bike, and both of them died. So these kinds of incidents, the power of these vehicles, is really making it.

ever more urgent for lawmakers to do something. But I think, you know, another point that should be made is the speed isn't coming out of nowhere. The speed is developed because there has been a demand. And that's what I was talking about before. This ever-growing demand for people, you know. to get their dinner, to get their deliveries. That kind of marketplace is also feeding into this. So in a way, we are sort of all complicit in, you know, in this problem. City Council Speaker Julie Menon's package bundles 17 bills. So I assume it goes pretty far beyond what Zohran Mamdani has talked about. Summarize them any way you want or maybe single out two or three that would actually change what's legal to ride and sell in the city versus the ones that are more about data and reporting because I know some of those are about record keeping. Well, Crystal Hudson has a bill that would ban the sale of all e-bikes that can go faster than 20 miles per hour. Now, again, these bikes are already illegal in the city. But what she is doing, and this is kind of very similar to what the mayor is doing, which is she's kind of attacking this point of sale transaction, right? And her bill... has the support from the cycling advocacy group Transportation Alternatives. And that's important because this is actually a historic shift for the group. This group has historically been reluctant to embrace any kind of restrictions because they worry that, you know, by doing so, it might dampen the enthusiasm for cycling. And, you know, the point of groups like transportation alternatives is, listen, We live in a city that is notoriously gridlocked. The city should be trying to promote cycling or other alternative means of transportation because this is more sustainable for us. This is, you know, this is sort of the right type of policy that the city should embrace. So there are, you know, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of. angst towards like how exactly do we regulate something that we still want to promote and grow? Right. And I know transportation alternatives has been concerned in the past about taking the spotlight off of the much greater danger from cars. You know, we talk about 12 micromobility related deaths this year in the city. Well, I don't know the latest stat, but there's always several hundred each year. deaths from car crashes and transportation alternatives has been reluctant to take the spotlight off that. But, of course, people can.

People can focus on both. Right. And I think, you know, initially when we used to talk about this battle, it was often seen as like a war between cyclists and cars. But I go back to that point that I made earlier, Brian, which is what has changed the equation here? It's speed. Now, at the end of a day, a car is much more powerful and much more deadlier than any fast, illegal e-bike. But pointing to that scooter, I said, that could now reach upwards of over 15 miles per hour, that is as fast as a car. But again, we should point out, it's already illegal. It's already illegal and it's a scooter. It's a scooter. And I think cycling advocates make a very fair point when they say that they should not be targeted in this conversation. Menon was asked whether she backed Zohran Mamdani's recent moves on e-bike regulation. Here she is on Picks 11. So the executive order and what the mayor did is cease and desist letters on these illegal bikes. I totally agree with that. What we're going to be doing is one of the bills, Councilmember Hudson's bill, bans the sale of class three bikes entirely. So really takes that issue off the table. So does Benin go too far for the mayor on some of those things? People who follow this issue might know that Zohran Mamdani has been a big supporter of the largely immigrant delivery workers who depend on e-bikes to make a decent living. And he's been resistant to regulations that might criminalize some of those folks in any way, leave them vulnerable to contact with immigration enforcement, and hold them responsible rather than the app companies they're working for. So does Menon go further than the mayor wants to go? And that's part of the rivalry. that you're framing in your piece? Well, as far as Crystal Hudson's bill is concerned, no, you know, she's not her support of that bill. She does have, the mayor has come out and said that he isn't supportive of that. And like I said, you know, a very big cycling advocacy group, transportation alternatives have also said that they would support that bill. I think we have yet to see. how they will clash on this package of 17 bills. The speaker has basically said that, you know, they are considering all of these bills, not that she's in support of all of them, but she wants to consider all of them and hopefully use these ideas to create this framework for regulating e-bikes. But like you said, you know, the mayor does have concern. over any kind of restrictions that would affect delivery workers. Because I think, you know, just like I said, you know, they, they, during the pandemic, they were seen as essential workers. You know, they were, they were, they were the ones that were delivering food and all kinds of items to New Yorkers. And the mayor very much sees them that way. And they are part of his base. So, but something like Crystal Hudson's bill, it doesn't.

It isn't at odds with how the mayor is approaching this because, again, this is attacking something that is the point of sale. So it's something where he would try to regulate, you know, the big box retailer or online vendor that is trying to sell these bikes. It becomes a different question. And it's one that the mayor hasn't answered when you ask him, well, what about the bikes that are already on the road? I think that that, poses a challenge for the mayor because we do already see these types of bikes on the road, and they're used by these delivery workers who rely on them for their livelihood. Renee in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with our City Hall reporter Elizabeth Kim. Hi, Renee. Hi, I'm glad you took my call. I was run over by an e-bike. in 2023. I endured multiple surgeries, several hospitalizations, and I still have the scars and the emotional scars as well. Unfortunately, both bikes and e-bikes have figured out that they don't need to obey traffic laws. Several of these crashes, one recently failed. were the results of an e-bike crashing with motor vehicle, which was obeying the car, the traffic laws. However, the e-bike went through the intersection. Unfortunately, until very recently, there were no statistics gathered with respect to bicycle and e-bike crashes. It's only now that they're starting to collect these. And so the statistics do not reflect the regularity of these terrible accidents. I know several people who've been grievously injured. Renee, thank you. I'm sorry this happened to you. I appreciate you calling in and sharing it with our listeners. And, you know, she brings up enforcement as an issue. And I've mentioned before on this show a personal friend whose life was changed after being struck by one of these kinds of vehicles, apparently riding against the light. And knowing we were going to do this segment last night, she texted the question, is enforcement on Speaker Menon's agenda. And it looks like either she or her husband are calling in or maybe both of them are on the line. So I'm going to take this call. Again, full disclosure, these are personal friends. So do we have John or Pam or both of you? Hi, you're on WNYC. Brian, we're both here. Thank you for taking our call. And, yeah. to your previous callers, emotion, we are right in line with that. We are living with it every day from an e-bike, e-modo collision that Pam suffered three years ago, and she suffered a traumatic brain injury, and she's paralyzed on her right side. She lost her career as a cellist. Our question, and...

Let me say we're grateful that Zohran Mamdani is addressing this. It doesn't seem quite enough, frankly, to adjust as a scapego, to use the manufacturers as the culprit. The question is, why isn't more being done? in terms of registration of these vehicles to hold them accountable for the same traffic laws that cars are held. Help to help. John, thank you. Let me leave it there and let me get an answer from Liz. Are either of these things in the Julie Mennon package of bills, either registration, I think New Jersey just passed something like this, right? Registration of e-bikes, even licensing of e-bike riders. It's controversial in New Jersey, especially for the slower so-called Class 1. e-bikes, very controversial in New Jersey, but that's now in effect. So any kind of registration or licensing, and to what both callers have brought up, any kind of greater enforcement of the traffic laws, because this is, everybody will say, oh, we see these. these e-bikes and motorbikes and stuff, you know, constantly riding the wrong way down one-way streets, through red lights and stop signs, things that cars don't generally do. And when they do, they get ticketed for it. Right. Well, Brian, Gail Brewer has a bill that calls on the state. to do registration and also consider licensing. Now, that is something that has been talked a long time. And it's called Priscilla's Law. And it's called Priscilla's Law because it's named after a woman who was killed by an e-bike in 2023. The speaker has not gone as far as to say that she would back that. The mayor has made it clear that he does not back registration of e-bikes. Now, those who support this idea, especially when you're thinking about licensing, their argument is that that is the only way that we can hold cyclists accountable in the same way we hold drivers accountable. And you could argue that a driver that, you know, a driver that goes past, flies by a red light, you know, his license plate is captured by a camera. Their argument is that a cyclist, if you forced them to have a license plate, could also be captured by a camera. And that in some ways that this would sort of level.

the playing field for both types of vehicles. But Like I said, the mayor does not like that. The argument from him and from other cycling advocates, it's a bureaucratic hurdle. It's a bureaucratic hurdle to something where you want more people to be on bicycles. You know, this is sort of the most sustainable type of transportation that the city really needs to try to grow given the level of congestion in the city. bad for the environment, you know, it's bad for the economy. And that sort of has been the standard line. But I think I sympathize with those callers because I think, you know, that is sort of what has changed, is that, you know, we used to hear about all of these collisions between cyclists and drivers. But now it's becoming pedestrians and also cyclists. I should note that there are other... kinds of legislation that has been proposed. Like Sylvina Brooks Powers has one where she's calling for a task force to look at street design. And I think that that is also a subject that the city needs to tackle. And the mayor has talked a lot about that. In fact, when he's asked about what needs to be done, he often talks about the focus needs to be on the infrastructure. And by that, he means, is there more that the city can do? to ensure that cyclists are obeying, you know, the rules of the street and also to alert. pedestrians to what has changed about the city's terrain. I think that that is something, you know, I spoke to John Orcutt. He was a transportation official under Bloomberg. And he said there could be a lot more signage around the different changes that have been introduced in recent years. And that's true. It often feels as if, you know, post-pandemic or even pre-pandemic, there were a lot of changes and new types of these devices that were being introduced, but very little in the way of public education about what has changed. And I would say it's public education for both pedestrians and also for the cyclists using the road. So that can be done. The other thing I will say about, and you know, this is debated as well. Eric Adams. the former mayor had introduced criminal summonses against cyclists. And both he and supporters of that felt like that was something that could make a dent, which is the police would issue a criminal summons rather than a civil summons, which would just be a ticket.

to a cyclist who is disobeying the rules of the road. Now, cyclists didn't like that because their argument was like, wait, what, you're holding us now to a higher standard than drivers. Then drivers. So Zohran Mamdani comes in and one of the first... policies he does on on with regards to e-bikes is he removes that and he returns it to a civil summons now critics you know and i spoke to randy master who is the first deputy mayor not long ago about this issue they you know they feel like that does make a difference because he says by by issuing criminal summonses you're basically forcing cyclists to come to court and they feel like that is the one thing that can really, that issues like a penalty of time and also actual fines on cyclists. You know, their argument is that the tickets that people just ignore them and they don't pay them. One more call. Then we're going to shift briefly to your other article about the prospect of a certain member of the New York City congressional delegation, whose initials, yes, our Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, possibly running for president in 28. But one more on this. Paul in Brooklyn, who says he used to be part of micromobility advocacy. Paul, you're on WNYC with Liz Kim. Hi. Good morning, Brian. Thank you so much for your time and for Ms. Kim covering this issue. Back when the law, pardon me, back when we were trying to get the law passed so there could be e-bikes and e- scooters in New York State, I was part of the team at Lyme, which was then Lyme bike, to do this. So I want to say that back in 2018 and 2019, this was an issue as well, but it was more focused. on bike safety and can we get the scooters on the street. Since that time, there's been many, many deaths in many circumstances and the most recent ones are just adding fuel to the fire. One of the things that I have seen consistently is that we have many stakeholders with differing views and folks are always ready to argue with one another rather than negotiate real terms. The idea that we have to have enforcement, yes, you do need enforcement. We have to have infrastructure changes. Yes, we need that too. But what we really need is for there to be common language about our literal common ground. We need people to be able to speak with one another to come to common understandings. We need some common sense, and we need common practices. But listen, common sense is not common these days as we can see.

see on our streets all the time. Briefly, because we're running out of time in the segment, do you, with your history in this field, see that common ground and real communication emerging now given what the mayor, what the city council speaker, and what transportation alternatives are all saying? I'm going to give a qualified yes there, the fact that there is some discussion, yes, but then you have, you know, you have circumstances where, you know, families for safe streets and the e-bike, excuse me, e-vehicle safety group from the upper east side, they're at odds because of the, you know, the same arguments that go back and forth, back and forth. And I'm... I will follow up with Ms. Kim and with anybody else that will listen. I've already reached out to the speaker and the number of council people on this. I have developed an actual framework for this conversation because I think more stakeholders need to come to the table honestly and in a forthright manner and figure out how to really do this because enforcement alone does not work because you wind up with selective enforcement. And law enforcement, police don't want to do this and what they wind up doing. is they'll set up a post up as a given spot, and they'll give a group of tickets, but then, you know, there's the random person who's riding on a sidewalk, on a, on a motorcycle, or riding through Brooklyn Bridge Park, which I ride through all the time. I see people on the e-motos, vehicles that are capable of 50 miles an hour, riding on the bike path through Brooklyn Bridge Park. Who's going to stop that guy or woman? I mean, there is, if I may. The real thing that we have to do is figure out ways of communicating with pedestrians and riders and drivers and talking about changing their behaviors on our shared streets. If we don't talk to the people, that'll be it. Sorry, Brian. And I'm going to leave it there. Your points are very clear and obviously heartfelt and deeply thought through. I appreciate your call. So Liz, to wrap up this portion of the segment and building on Paul's point about people from the different sectors of the interest group community communicating with each other. I mean, the headline of your newsletter piece was, will the Zohran Mamdani Menin rivalry boost regulations of e-bikes in New York City? It sounds like they're kind of on the same page on a lot of what you've been discussing. So where does the rivalry come in? Well, I think because there has been so much, there's a growing public outcry about, you know, what is the city doing? What are lawmakers doing to address what a lot of people are viewing as a crisis on the streets? And I think to Paul's point.

I think a lot of people would agree with him. It isn't just one approach, right? It isn't just regulation. It's regulation and, you know, public education. It is also what the mayor is doing with these cease and desist letters and doing some enforcement among the people who are, the vendors who are selling these types of bikes. But I think there is a competition among, you know, between lawmakers like... Menin and the mayor to come up with a solution because, you know, This is something that I think there's an opportunity here for a lawmaker to come out with a win, to own this issue. And when Menon came out and held her press conference, she wasn't saying that, you know, this is what we're going to do. She was saying we need to begin a conversation about this because the status quo cannot continue. And she says, we have these bills that people have been. introduced, let's talk about them. She is actually doing exactly what Paul has suggested, which means convening all of the stakeholders. We're going to have a public hearing. We're going to interrogate the NYPD, the consumer and worker protection department, you know, and transportation officials about what kind of data they have. What are we doing now? And she got a lot of... of praise for that. You know, everybody, I think, all the stakeholders praised her for doing that. And then, you know, I don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but the next day, you know, the mayor had his own press conference announcing what he was doing because I think at the end of the day, everyone wants. All of these lawmakers want to be seen as taking some kind of action in front, you know, because New Yorkers are watching them. There cannot be another deadly incident with lawmakers having taken no action at all. We went long on e-bikes because we have so much listener input and so much reporting from Liz. We're going to take a break and then just spend five minutes with Liz on her Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez running for president article. And then we're going to talk more about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the word woke with Jasmine Green from the bulwark. Stay with us, Brian Lera, on WNYC.

Brian Lehrer on WNYC. A few more minutes with our politics reporter, Elizabeth Kim. Your story about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez possibly running for president, Liz, was before the primary in Michigan. And you wondered what kind of effect in Abdul El-Sayed victory or defeat would have on those potential plans. And I'm curious what... You think now, remind the listeners what you reported that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was looking to see. And now that we have the result, how do you think that might inform her decision whether or not to run for president in 2018? Well, the Michigan Senate race was a key test for progressives. And the test was how would progressive messaging and... Progressive messaging anchored in affordability and opposition to U.S. military aid in Israel, how would that land in a swing state? Because we've seen leftist insurgent candidates, you know, beginning with Zohran Mamdani win elected office in coastal cities. But can they win Democrats in the heartland? And the answer that we got was that they did, but narrowly. And it's yet to be determined whether... These candidates, like an El Sayed, can coalesce the party and win the general election in November. Now, Michigan is key to Democrats taking control of the Senate. I will also note that a Republican has not won a Michigan Senate race since 1994. So I think the answer was it's a little bit muddy. I think a lot of people see that win as quite, you know, you hear Bernie Sanders talk about it. It is quite a. significant achievement for a progressive given how much spending from from APAC to oppose him in that race but at the same time it's not it's it's it's not perhaps the clear defining win that would signal to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez this is the moment because it is just a primary and it's just a primary exactly the general election result In Michigan in particular, I could see where it would be extremely informative for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or anybody considering running for president in 2028 because I was looking this up yesterday in connection with another segment. And Michigan has gone for the winner in every presidential election, I think back to Reagan, right? Which means, you know, they went for Clinton, they went for Obama, but they also went for Bush. They went for Trump. went for Biden. So it's a bellwether, yeah. It's the ultimate bellwether state, maybe more than any other bellwether state. So whether someone like El-Sayed can win, the general election in Michigan certainly is going to be an indicator for any presidential hopeful. So after the primary and Abdul El-Sayed's victory there, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was asked about a potential run.