Let’s talk about Santa Fe Indian Market

Dunjo, good morning. This is Let's Talk New Mexico, and I'm your host, Jeanette Didios, from the Hickory Apache and Denae Nations. Every year, thousands of indigenous artists travel to Santa Fe to sell and share their artwork to the folks from all over the country at the Santa Fe Plaza. Now, in its 104th year, the Santa Fe Indian market has become the largest native art market in the world and has grown into a hub for fashion shows, film festivals, and nonprofits committed to highlighting and showcasing indigenous art. On this week's Let's Talk New Mexico, we will explore the timeline of the Santa Fe Indian Market and how it's become an annual staple in New Mexico for both vendors and buyers alike. We'll discuss how this market has grown into an epicenter for indigenous people to come together in a community to not only share works of art, but also bring awareness to ongoing issues facing Indian country. And we want to hear from you. Have you ever been to Santa Fe Indian Market? What was your experience like? Or if you haven't been, what's keeping you away? If you're an annual attendee, what keeps you coming back each year? How does it stand out from other markets? And why is it important to keep these cultural spaces alive? We want to hear from all your Indian stories today. So leave us an email with all your memories at let's talk at kunm.org or call in live at KUNM 505-2757-5866. That's 505-27-KU-NM. And for our first guest this morning, we are going to talk to Leslie Willock from the Oneida Nation of Wisconsin. She's the board chair for the Southwestern Association for Indian Arts, also known as Swaya. Welcome to the show, Leslie. Thank you, Jeanette. So, Leslie, we are talking about Santa Fe Indian Market. Can you give our listeners an overview of what the Indian market is about? The Indian market started as a local market by our pueblos here in New Mexico. And it was a way to collect revenue for the winter months when they aren't usually outselling on the streets or under the plaza in Santa Fe. It grew from that to this year. So that was 104 years ago. This is our 104th market. It's grown to nearly a thousand Native American artists now. representing nearly 250 tribal nations in both the United States and Canada. These artists are all juries in. There's an application period that our artists submit for. They're chosen to come and represent themselves in their tribes on the market. And then they go through those who want to will put their works through a second jurying for the best of show categories. And like you mentioned, like I mentioned, it's a hundred and fourth year. How did Swaya get involved in the Indian market? That's a good question. The Swaya was actually the name of the organization that grew out of the original marketplace. The tribes needed something that supported them more frequently, more year-round. And the Swaya organization was created as a nonprofit and was used to...

get the market ready to run so that people didn't just show up with their items and go out onto the closet and sell the third weekend of the month. It's grown into both a winter market and the summer market as well as the spring fashion week. That's all happened more recently, but it's additional aid to our artists and to their families. Yeah, exactly. So the Santa Feetian market is certainly about the market itself, about an exchange of goods, but it has also grown into so many ways, right? Yes, in the recent years especially, the market itself with two points of revenue, the summer market and the winter market, it's very difficult to maintain that consistency in our staffing. And so one of the... ingenious creations of our executive team, our executive director and our staff was the fashion show. So they started this fashion show, put it together with a lot of help from people like Patricia Michaels and our other dear designers who come on board and help us out every year. We take comments and criticism from those designers in trying to make that fashion show better every year. The spring fashion show this year changed a little bit because we wanted to try out a different pattern, a different thing that wasn't just models walking down an aisle. So there was the ability to see the models up close, to see the designs up close in our spring event this year. And the next thing that came along was the Get Indigenous Film Festival. This was something that our executive director, Jamie Shultz, was trying to get started. I would think about four years ago, and it's grown a little bit year by year to the point where we have a very good, juries in series of films that we're showing this year. And we actually received an email before the show from T. Reese, and he just wanted to express how excited he is for Santa Feetian Market, especially the gala and the meal that will be taking place catered by waiter Burke catering. But also this fashion, he says, fashion, food, fine dining, and colors galore. I can't wait. So can you attest to that, Leslie, this momentum for Santa Feetian Market, this excitement each year. I think that as the different elements have come together, what you find is that we have our artists out on the plaza during the day. And then in the evening, it's not, it's, it's, it's fashion. It's the gala, as he mentioned. We also have a fashion show during the as well as an auction event. But as the market has.

really stabilized. We've seen other things come into the market. We've always had a place for, well, we've always, we've recently had special places for nonprofit organizations to be mixed in with the artists, to be available to take advantage of the fact that we have so many people coming through. And then the surrounding areas. So you have Santa Fe galleries. You have Santa Fe galleries. You have Santa Fe bands, local bands. You have organizations coming in and setting up different places around. the market or around market time to deliver their messages, to meet people, to allow people who wouldn't ordinarily know about their organizations to see who they are and what they do. And it's become a very centralized community gathering spot way beyond our expectations for our artists and their communities. And so it's really... grown in a way that we hadn't planned and couldn't have planned possibly with a lot of different features being presented in different venues. And that's exactly what I was going to ask next, Leslie. What other events is happening this weekend? We mentioned the Indian market. We also mentioned the fashion show and the gala. Mm-hmm. So we have a new organization that's presenting itself in LaFonda this year. It's called Indigenous House. It's an organization that is working with artists and other native producers around the country to... create a long-term space, an annual, not, we're an annual space. This is a long-term organization, working throughout the year, working with our indigenous artists and producers on different areas of Indian native productions and art. They're featured at, as I said, at LaFonda, and their schedule runs Thursday, no, Friday and Saturday. And they're pretty much, they're kind of a walk-in event, but they do have some ticketed events, including a Native women's gathering that will feature Deb Holland. And there are a couple of other very special events like that. I don't know exactly their URL, but their name again is Indigenous House. And this weekend, there are going to be well over 1,000 native vendors on the plaza. What kind of impact does that have on New Mexico's economy? It depends on which side of the economy you're looking at. So for Santa Fe, we've got all kinds of estimates, but we do know that we bring in about $300. The market brings in about $320 million in one weekend for the state of New Mexico and about $100 million within Santa Fe itself. For the artists, the impact is even greater than that.

because they go back to their communities and what they make at this market supports their communities and their families throughout the year, especially throughout the rest of this year and into the winter. We did a survey, Swaya did a survey in 2020 and found that Swaya artists support on average nine family and community members with the... money that they bring back. So imagine that you come into back home to your community. You have made money at Indian Market. You now have money to buy things to send the kids to school, buy food for your family, support your community in other ways. And it builds up the community and supports the community. It's the economic development piece of that that we, that keeps Swayab. really focused on Indian market. It means a lot to those communities. It means a lot to our artists. It also allows our artists to invest in their own self-determination and their own tribal sovereignty and resilience that ties to the theme this year, which is empowered resilience centuries in the making. We have brilliant artists and we have brilliant new artists and we have brilliant artists who are continuing. family traditions in the different art areas that they work in. So you see a little, you see a bit of the old and a bit of the new and a lot of the different. And it's really encouraging to have all of this going on under the banner of Swaya. And when we're talking about native vendors relying on the market, have you had conversations with them in terms of how far advanced they prepare for it?

Yes and no. We've had conversations. We also have a lot of friends who are working, have been working throughout the year. They generally, so there are artists to go to a number of markets every year, and they will be at the herd. show, which is earlier in the year. Some will even go to Indianapolis for the Idol George show. Most of them prepare for local shows around here. And then there was a, and they'll be preparing throughout the year getting more and more work done as we get closer and closer to market. There was a cartoon that Cate was in the paper about a couple of weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago. of two native gentlemen just kind of lounging around. And one of them said to the other, you know, Indian market's coming soon, right? And he said, yeah, I guess we need to get started. And that's how it seems some of our artists really can produce a huge amount of work in a short amount of time. But generally, they're working throughout the year, especially during the three months prior to Santa Fe Indian market. Now, I want to talk about behind the scenes at the market. This must be a huge undertaking. Can you give me a glimpse of what kind of preparation goes into getting this event set up and running? How many non-artists are helping to run the show? So that's key to getting Indian market up and running. We have approximately 450 volunteers this week alone on hand doing kind of soup to nuts helping us out. We have a staff of six people. the Swaya staff of six people, sets up, runs, prepares for Indian market. That preparation generally begins as soon as a spring show has ended and usually before. So it begins in, I'm just going to say January. They start ordering, they start pushing out RFPs to get information on what they can get competitively. And working on that process, they start with notifying artists that they're taking applications. The review of the applications begins. The artists are selected. And while all of that front-in to the artists is going on, the back end is ordering chairs, drapes, and pipes, and spaces, and tents. Port-a-potties, you name it. Everything that you need in order to... Everything that you see at Indian Market is put in place by six people beginning in January. Plus a team of volunteers. We have a volunteer gala committee. Bless their hearts because that's a little bit more than we can handle in addition to just the market. We have... a group of both IAAIA students and volunteers helping out with the fashion show behind the scenes getting ready for it helping where they're asked to help all hands on deck yesterday we were unloading art from the artists so the artists come in they drop off their art that art is categorized it's it's indexed it's

taken care of and we had volunteers working with well-seasoned art collectors and art um historians and managers volunteering to do that kind of work. And then today is the judging. Today we'll have 150 plus judges and volunteers in the room for the best of show judging. And they award during this process the best of each category. We have 10 categories and the overall best of show. awards along with special awards. There's a total of 220 awards each year through this process. All the things behind the scenes. Go ahead, Jeanette. That sounds like an incredible amount of work. But we actually are going to take a pause in this conversation. This is Let's Talk New Mexico on 89.9 KUNM. I'm Jeanette Didios. Do you have a favorite memory from Santa Fe in New Market? We'd love to hear it. Give us a call at 50527-5866 or email us at let's talk at kunm.org. Stay with us. KUNM is putting together an election guide and we want to hear from you. Make your voice heard. What are the key issues you want politicians to address? Head to KUNM.org and click Your Voice Matters. Are you looking for a political show that gets you out of your comfort zone? On left, right and center, we talk about the biggest issues of the day without a screaming match breaking out, and we get you out of your political bubble. I'm David Green. Hope you join us every week and get curious about the other side of the debate. It's all on KCRW's Left, Right and Center. That's Left, Right and Center, Friday mornings at 9 on KUNM. Welcome back to Let's Talk New Mexico. I'm Jeanette Didios, and we've been talking about the Santa Fe in the market and how it's grown into a simple market into a hub for fashion shows, film festivals, and nonprofits. And KU&M's own Singing Wire will have a live broadcast during Santa Fe Indy Market from noon to 4 p.m. throughout the day. It'll be hosted by Ron Bryan and David Petiamo. You can also catch Singing Wire this Sunday from 1 to 4 p.m. where they will have a live in-studio performance by Desert Rain, a group of Gallup Native musicians performing a blend of new country hits, res country, and classic oldies.

And before we left on our break, we were here with Leslie Willlock. So, Leslie, I have to ask, I'm asking our guests. So I'm asking our listeners. So I'm going to ask you, what's your favorite part of any market? Oh, gosh. Depends. But my favorite part is talking to the artists about their works. Doesn't matter what the works are, whether they're film, whether they're fashion, whether they're on the plaza or out on the streets. I think that I learn so much from just not necessarily my talking. Sometimes I'll just stand there and overhear them explaining things to other people. I have learned. a ton about just the different areas of the art that you see sold on the market. Watching people like Patricia Michaels and our other designers and the productions that they put together, it's just been a whirlwind over the last few years of learning from me. And then we've got the film festival with the judging that has that has produced this year's lineup. The films tend to get a little bit more political because that's where our film film directors and producers are going. And it's taking us into a space that's not really, it's not really, that the political is political, but it's judged for its art. And so those films are coming in as well. And I sat, sat down and had a terrific conversation, for example, with Chris Eyre last year at Market, actually at the film festival evening events. And we both learned a lot. We've crossed paths for about 20 years without ever having time to talk and knew each other but didn't know about each other. And so opportunities like that are terrific. If you come to market, take advantage of the people who are there, whom you may never see again, take time to ask them about their art. That's my recommendation. Well, we've been talking about Patricia so much. We should might as well bring her in from the Puebla of Taos. Patricia Michaels is a fashion designer who was featured on Project Runway and will be a part of Swaya's Gala and live auction. Good morning, Patricia. Good morning. I'm very thankful. My native name is Waterlily, and I'm very humble and to be a part of this wonderful group of ladies and conversation that is so close to my heart since I've been doing it since I was in my mother's stomach.

That being said, you know, my families are dancers and performers. So they were behind back in the day in the 60s behind on the palace of the governors where the Pueblos used to dance and perform back there. And they used to do throws and like we do for ceremonies after the feast or the dances. And I just remember. It's a little girl going to booths like Pablita Valarde and then, you know, Maria Martinez likes her family and lineage and seeing just like this whole beautiful family of people who just... celebrated their arts and their techniques. And they're very humble and they're gracious. And they taught you how to be so respectful. And I remember my mom telling me that when you go into the market, remember everybody's like comes from someplace beautiful and special. They come with prayers. They come with those prayers are really ancient from long time ago. So don't be too. you know, taking up people's time and nosy. because they're here too. They have to feed their family. And so it's a big family affair that you have to be mindful and respectful. And then as I grew older, then I got to meet people like Ellen Hauser and T.C. Cannon was my biggest hero. I loved him so much. When I got to meet him, I thought, oh, my God, my childhood bedroom was full of his posters while my girlfriends had, like, Michael Jackson and... Alman Brothers and I was like, why would you have those guys? I have T.C. Cannon. But anyway, it was just growing up with, you know, shows that saw Fitzschilders, R. C. Gorman, you know, just seeing how the market grew and being able to talk to these wonderful people that were always so kind and humble that... As now that I'm one of the elders at the market, I really try to lead by what I was given. It's reciprocity, right? I was fortunate to receive all of that knowledge and that experience, those conversations, those wonderful times from... you know, 60 years ago. And I can't thank everybody who has been a part of it from all the generations to say, thank you for being strong, volunteers, the way fashion has grown, all the hair, makeup models, lighting, sound, volunteers, media like you, thank you for, you know, including us. And if I'm like on...

You're not asking me questions and I just keep going talking. It's just because I only slept three hours. Stop my mind like every other artist out there getting from Market. Getting ready for Market. We're already on that trajectory of, oh, my God, this is what we're doing. It's here. And then it's going to be gone. That's the sad part. It's going to be gone. And you know what's so beautiful? I think all those prayers at Market... Huge shit rains aftermarket, and I mean, I don't want to like curse anything, but, you know, it's just such a powerful place that I encourage people to realize when they go in the plaza, they're walking into... an arena of tribes from everywhere. And those artists aren't just there, even if they're by themselves, they're not there alone because their people usually bless them before they go. And as they're making all these original pieces that come from their tribes, they're praying as they're making this. So when you like stop to think about that, it's mind-boggling. Like go and be humble and cleanse yourself and take it in with giving something back too. And for people who are coming to market for the first time, Enjoy that part. Enjoy the fact that it's original work and the craftsmanship is the excellence of craftsmanship. And, you know, walk away with something that's going to then be in your home that is going to bless your home because I kid you not, people aren't making things that are. that are uncomfortable to make, you know, anybody not have blessings. Because as artists, you know, this is how we function. We can only function through praying through it. Otherwise, you know, how can you step for three hours and eat one meal for weeks on end? And like... For myself, I'm already working on a New York show. I now live in Manhattan. I teach at Parsons. So I'm already working on a show for Fashion Week on September 9th. And so your time is stripped. You know, you like to think that you're only working on one thing for Indian market because you want to be present for this. But in order to be present for this, you have to expand and go out to other places and other arenas to bring people back home to this. Because then when people see me at a show in New York or wherever I'm doing a show, they're like, oh, my God, this is incredible. Never seen anything like this. And I always tell them, we'll come back the third weekend of August, and you'll see more of us. It's insane the amount of creativity you'll see the third week. It's like the celebration of native.

Creativity, friendship, fear, excitement, you know, vulnerability. All these really amazing emotions go through you. And it's like a time for artists to really allow themselves to just be open and not. Not worry about what the rest of the world is thinking. I think that's what's beautiful about Native art. They stay in tune with nature because that's where a lot of the influence is coming from. So. And, you know, some of the art is political and everything, but what grounds us, I think, is our own environments and where we're coming from. So when you go into the market and you get to see all of that influence and how does this tribe or how does this artist deal with it, it really is comforting in the sense that... We're all in this together and it's the end of the day we just want to be loved and respected because our fights are always there in our tribes. The fights are always built to preserve our environment and to be able to do our ceremonies. That's another thing. Just think. Half of us are like getting ready for ceremonies or we just finished the ceremony within the perimeter of three weeks of market. And then we go right into ceremony. So it's funny, in my room, I have like ceremonial clothes that are getting ready to be sewn. And so production is never as simple as somebody thinks. It's so... The immense of thought that goes into a native artist studio is more than what you see. So whatever makes it onto the table or on the rack or in the display case, wow, that's fortunate that even that made it to market. But the studio, believe you mean, there's a whole rack behind me that's not going to make it because, you know, there's just, there's only one person. And Patricia, your experience certainly so deep. And I just got to know, we got to take it back. How did you start in fashion? As soon as I could hold a piece of cloth, my mother had me ripping up ceremonial clothes so it could fit me. I was the youngest in the family. So everything I had, even school clothes were hand-me-downs and ceremonial clothes had me down. So I took everything apart to dress it to fit me, bring up the hem or lower the hem. And then I...

loved, you know, making all the ceremonial clothing and I used to make powwow clothes because my family had powwow dancers. And then I started to work at the Santa Fe Opera and I went to IAIA, Chicago Art Institute, then a year outside of Milano with a tailor. And... I just, there wasn't a cloth that was a natural cloth that I didn't love everything natural that I could fill in my hands. Then I just thought, I got to experiment. Because when you think about Native Americans, why I started, my name is Water Lily. And that... Waterloo comes from South America that was a trade that was given to my people at Taos Pueblo to the highest medicine and medicine men and women of our tribe. So when you, and that's an old, Baupo is an old word. from our village. It's not because we don't have that trade anymore. When the new world came into America, they broke our trade routes to conquer us. So when I started to think as little girl, how cool was that to be able to have trade from South America to Taos Pablo? And... And you with before cars, trains, boats, you know, bicycles, all the whole. We only had our feet and the boats. So that's the beauty and the sophistication of who we are. So Swaya continuing this beautiful mass trade is. important in my heart, 100%. So no matter where I go in the world, I always will talk about it and I will give credit to this organization for allowing our native people to grow because without it, our stories don't survive. Of course. Now, getting back to this year, tell me about your participation in the Swaya Gala. Oh, I love the Swaya Gala. It's so much fun because it's not as crazy as Sunday. Sunday I always feel like, oh, that should be left for a lot of up-and-coming designers. So I haven't done the Sunday, and I love to sneak in and see everything that day, too. But I'm going to be doing... 10 looks and I'm going to be doing a lot of upcycling because just being a professor at Parsons School of Design in the new school in Manhattan I have noticed a lot of fashion being concerned with upcycling and the students really want

to try to preserve and change the trajectory of fashion. And the great thing is being Native American and being in a studio for four years without electricity, running water, before I moved to New York, it really shows the students like, you can do this. You just think about back in the day all the beautiful, you know, work that was done without electricity and running water. Well, Then I come back from New York and then I start working like that again. So that's really, you know, I just wanted to just extend some of these thoughts and theories and then go back to New York and show the students and then to also encourage the native designers here. And so you'll see a lot of upcycle stuff that I've done. There's about, well, there's five looks that are upcycle and then there's five looks that aren't. Nonetheless, And I will have my son. He did a video for the backdrop. And it'll be his music for the runway. And he is Mozart Gabriel. And he's a lot of fun. My daughter usually helps too with that, but she's in Mojaka studying. And I just... I just want to say that it's an honor, and I really hope that people buy their tickets early for that gala event, because every year is this like, by May, it's like, the tickets are already sold out. Can you help me? And I'm like, well, no, because I'm not swaya. I can't pull the magic ticket out of the hat. But, you know, push your chart. I was going to ask, though. I was going to ask, before we go to break, like Lizley, I need to know what is your favorite Indian Market moment or memory? Just seeing my friends and meeting new artists and seeing what people are doing, even if it's just a glance and I'm like, God, that's so beautiful. Like, it's encouraging, it's uplifting, and there's nothing like it. It's such a good feeling. Well, we're going to go to take a pause on this conversation, and we'll be back. You're listening to Let's Talk New Mexico on 89.9 KUNM. I'm Jeanette Didios. Are you a native artist, perhaps an Indian market goer? What are you most looking forward to this weekend? We'd love to hear from you. Call us at 505-27-5866, or you can email us at let's talk at kunm.org. We'll be right back. KUNM is hiring a programming and audience engagement director. Could that be you? You'll lead our efforts to reach folks on the radio, online, and in-person. KUNM is an equal opportunity employer. Learn more at KUNM.org.

The three-day arts and music festival put on by the Pauaki Pueblo in New Mexico gets underway this weekend. We'll get a preview of the Pathways Indigenous Arts Festival that brings in some 350 artists along with live music and an extensive celebration of Native film and television. We'll be live at the Buffalo Thunder Resort and Casino on the next Native America calling. Weekday mornings at 11 on KUNM. And welcome back. This is Let's Talk New Mexico on 89.9, KUNM. We're talking about the Santa Fe Indian Market. And don't forget, KU&M Singing Wire will have a live broadcast during the Indian market from noon to 4 p.m. throughout the day. So if you're unable to attend, you can still hear from Ron Brian and David Petiamo, who will be hosting the broadcast. And we just came back from our break. And I want to introduce our next guest, who is Deneh and the founder of the Indian Girls Book Club, Kinsale Drake. Welcome to the show, Kinsale. Hi. Thank you for having me. And I also have Lily Painter, who is the co-coordinator for Indian Girls Book Club here with me, too. Hi. Okay, great. Welcome to the show. So can you tell our listeners what the Indian Girls Book Club is all about? Yeah, so we are a, we're an organization that's completely run by native educators and youth, and we distribute free books by native writers to everybody. So our priority is access and indigenous families, namely children and students, but we encourage people to read and engage with native stories on every level, and so our work reflects that. We do workshops. We do free book distributions. We do an annual book festival. We're currently finalizing our fundraising for a bookmobile. We also advocate against censorship. We work to help native authors get their work out there. And we really encourage publishers and non-natives to engage with our stories and support them, buy them at indie booksellers. We have some amazing ones in New Mexico. you know, shop native stories and native made things, not things inspired by natives, I think, is what a lot of us really center our work around. Now, I'm curious, what was the inspiration or the reason for creating the Indian Girls Book Club? Yeah, we, so Lily and I are very good friends. We're both students, were writers, we're storytellers. For me coming into the work, it was just a continuation of what I was doing as a writer myself and as someone who was a reader from a very young age. Like I loved to read. I just loved when I found native authors. I just loved everything about native storytellers. Louis Erdrick was the first. a writer that I read that really made me understand that I could be a writer myself. And that's how I found Lily. We were like internet friends through the literary world, basically. And so it all came from a very organic and genuine place. And Lily can talk about herself as well. We do a lot of work with like, you know, working with Native youth and advocating for our communities. But we also are...

very, I think, connected to this idea that radical distribution of books and inspiring hope in our communities is something that is super important and that were cornerstones for our lives and how we see in value storytelling. Yeah, sure. Lily, did you want to add to that? I mean, yeah, everything Kinsell said for sure. I think a core pillar of Indy Girls Book Club is like the community we bring together, right? Because it originated out of Kinsale and I's need for that community of other native storytellers who identify. Not just with the general like books that are out in the world, but specifically native stories and how not only we interpret them, but how we like receive them and the ways by which we receive them. And. Like, we always like to joke around to because Indian Girls Book Club is never, like, it's not just for girls, right? Like, I think people get thrown off by the title. And, like, when we talk about Indian Girls Book Club, it's like, those are us, like the girls that sort of were yearning for this idea of a book club. And so we have people from all different walks of life in not only on our board, but just sort of in our circle, people who love to wrap like the pink and sparkles and love to sort of just take this idea that we. you know, distribute and push throughout our programming. So book club is for everyone because it is for like that general like community. It's for creating like a family, honestly. So as a nonprofit, why was it important that you participated in the Santa Fe Union market this year? Yeah, I think Lily really touched on that. The main point that brings us together here every year is the people in the community as Patricia and so many other artists that we have come to know and really make deep relationships with. Those relationships and this opportunity to have so many amazing artists and creators. you know, storytellers, really storytellers in so many different mediums in one place is invaluable. I think it's something that keeps all of us going as artists too. Like we come here and we see this as a sense of nourishment too spiritually, I think. Because it's just so nice to be able to talk, right, to other educators, to other storytellers and to just have a moment to really engage with each other's work. hear and contribute to the fabric of our distinct communities, how we are, how we approach our art and how we are, you know, revitalizing language or whatever kind of work we're doing. Because I think the beautiful thing about Indian market and the people who come in and around it, because that's really important too, right? It's like it's not just Swayia. It's a huge ecosystem of artists that existed before Swaya existed and still exists. this sense of this like very alive place, this kind of weaving of all of these different people to come together and exchange. That is such an important and beautiful, very real experience, I think, that comes with this weekend, I would say, or week, you know.

And the Indian Girls Book Club isn't necessarily selling stuff. It's, in fact, a free book initiative. It also hosts workshops, author talks, and really tries to address literacy within tribal communities. So with that being said, do you feel that the Indian market has grown into a place for Native artists to address and speak out on issues facing Indian country? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that any space that has Native artists has a responsibility to prioritize the well-being of the artists in their families and communities. And part of that is, you know, having them have input in how the events are working, right, centering their voices and narratives. And I think that that work is ongoing for a lot of these spaces and structures that originated as non-native spaces and structures. And that's a good thing, right? Like we're leveraging these resources and we're helping each other create more collaborative and beautiful generative spaces because that is the most important thing about this time is the gender. the generative effect it has. And, like, it's so inspirational, right? And it's beautiful. And there's so much history and there's so much to learn. And I think we're really drawn to that as well. Like, this is an opportunity for more storytelling, right? These kinship spaces that are so vital to so many of our communities, I think we understand why that is so important when you come here. And that's the other thing, too, is like, I think a lot of people who might have opinions on, you know, Indian market who have never been here. It's like, or, you know, and I say Indian market, but it's like, you know, it's place and it's, you know, coming and not just like coming and leaving, which I think is how people who are, who might have a more tourist kind of relationship, it's like not, we don't want to, we're not about that, right? It's like an invitation a lot of the times, an invitation to engage. And that is really important as well because. you know, yeah, these are ongoing relationships that we're building. And that's really important to us and the work that we do. And yes. And also like for us, our mentality is also like, We want to share free books, like point-blank period. So it's like any opportunity we have to do that is really important. And so obviously coming here, people bring their families. There are students going back to school at this time. They can come by. We also like are going and visiting the Karras Learning Center. So, you know, engaging with the communities whose land this is is also really important. I think people come and sometimes I'm speaking of non-natives mostly, but they come and then they leave or they don't learn about, you know, the communities that people like Patricia comes from, right, who are like local artists who have that ongoing connection to this land and those stories. That is like the most important thing as well. So we're also like...

being mindful of like, yeah, let's share, like, Pueblo stories, right? Let's share Southwestern stories. Let's make sure, like, people coming here, walk away, learning things about the land and the people here. And also contemporary voices who are, who are bringing forward a lot of their, you know, concerns and practices and things like that. So, Consell, Lily, you already know what's coming and you've had plenty of time to think on it. What's your memorable Indian market moment? We were just chatting and we were like, oh, what's your favorite? And we just sat in silence. We're like, almost so many. Literally. It's like, oh, we had time to think about it. I have, I have like a personal one. And then I think the book club one that I think is very important to highlight. So Kinsale and I both also started coming to Swaya. Like, Kinsale's been coming like a long time with her family too. And one of my major moments was I started out modeling at the fashion show. So I think the first time I ever walked the runway because I was. like 17 and didn't know what I was doing. So I think being able to like be encompassed by all of these different native artists who were primarily native women too, like being able to be clothed in their designs that I know have so many stories behind them and teachings. And then being surrounded by people that the fashion show brings in from everywhere, right? Like one of my aunts very randomly from Oklahoma was also modeling. And I was like, oh my God, that's crazy. But I think my favorite book club moment had to be last year. Right. Like Swaya, I think. the Indian market, like it is the primary market, right? But there's also so many different artists events that happen at that time. And they are all sort of kind of fall under this umbrella of celebrating Native artists and their stories and their collaborations. And so last year we were able to have our first like dedicated Indian Girls Book Club market. And it was alongside the opening of our friend Diego Medina's art gallery. So being able to like celebrate his work as like a native artist and sort of all of these different. people that came to sort of support book club and our first like huge big pop-up was super awesome like people were coming walking from the like the main market two hours and then like back and then yeah being able to just sort of share space and sort of solidify our place in the bigger like swaya like umbrella that was going on Yeah, I would have to say similarly, the awe that I was hearing, you know, Patricia talking about idolizing artists and like hanging them up on her walls. That is, that is like such a, I think, similar experience for so many of us who. our artists ourselves or like, you know, have always loved stories. And so coming of age for me and it's like seeing all these different generations interacting and like transforming the landscape of what these weeks of markets look like. And like.

you know, reimagining and revitalizing different things. And then getting to be a part of that fabric now as book club, like previously kind of as like a baby, you know, like as a baby, like not doing anything, like, you know, just witnessing and like here and listening, like very deep listening and. And then like, you know, contributing is like a completely different experience. But I think that's something that has always meant something very deeply to me is like I would go to a lot of these events as an attendee and just like, you know, experience it. And I think a lot of my work with Book Club and our work as artists ourselves is like, how do we give like the best experience to? the little like native kids, right, who are coming into this space. And also the elders, right, who, who deserve to see themselves reflected in our stories and in what these markets are about. And so those are who we think of. And I think last year in particular, yeah, I agree with Lily. Last year in particular was really special. It was at Smoke the Moon. gallery, it's right off Canyon Road, where there's so many different places. Like, you could just walk around for hours in Santa Fe and, like, just never run out of things to do for days. I mean, that's literally just what people do this whole weekend, you know, sit down, get a green chili burrito and keep going, get Thai food and keep going, whatever floats your vote. But that market was so special because we had everybody from people from back home. you know, Homeland, which is an amazing Dinek brand, young people making shirts, right? And then like, educators like from Carus Pueblo who are doing insanely amazing, you know, language revitalization work. And that's really important, Kenil, really important. I really appreciate that. And I do want to thank all of my guests for sharing your memories. I think it's really important to share these memories of Indian Market. So throughout this show, we've been talking about Santa Fe Indian Market, about galaes, about nonprofits being involved. But Swaya is also hosting a film festival called Get Indigenous, which will be screening a handful of films, including called You're No Indian. It's documentary centered around tribal disenrollment and how 11,000 people have been stripped of their tribal citizenship in the last two decades due to increasing revenues and payouts to members. I spoke to the director of the documentary, Ryan Flynn, on how disenrollment is impacting tribal members. Rightful members of tribes are being removed in spite of empirical evidence. DNA tests, exhuming bodies, passing those DNA tests, and still getting removed. And in many cases, the per capita payments of the members that remain go up. If you have 1,000 members and everyone's getting $1,000 a month, cut it in half to 500 members, everyone gets $2,000 a month. And that's what we call the sick math of disenrollment.

So how did this film come to be? I was just curious how much an indigenous person gets from their casino. And that answer varied wildly. Sometimes it was nothing. Sometimes it was as much as $100,000 a month. And that's how I came across this concept of disenrollment. And I was surprised that I had never heard of it. And then I was more surprised than no one was talking about it. Where was the film? Where was the YouTube video? Why is no one talking about this? So I started reaching out to different people that were vocal in the community and learning more about their stories. And what hit me was that these individuals had empirical evidence. They had the truth on their side. And they were being removed in spite of that truth. And through that process, losing the connection to their ancestors, their communities, and their tribal benefits. So when you have something that is true, And you have them being removed in spite of that truth. That's wrong. So, you know, I know how to hold a camera. That was actually at the time. That's about all I knew. And it felt like a responsibility to try. This is something that no one has been talking about. And we should be talking about it. So, Leslie, this film, You're No Indian, initially only had one showing on Friday, but because of the high demand, they got a second screening on Sunday. What does that say about people wanting to see it? It says a lot. It says a lot about both the film itself. It says a lot about how the entry was selected and why it was selected. It supports everything in filmmaking, and we're very excited to be able to show at a second time. We did that last year with the Jim Thorpe film as well. They were shown. both times on one night, and we had to scramble to find a second venue for the second showing. But we're delighted that it's being shown. We're delighted that that story has been picked up and is being brought out because, as was said, it's very difficult to learn about things in Indian country if they're not being. on national news, for example. And we're noticing our filmmakers, as I said earlier, bringing in a lot of different viewpoints and a lot of different perspectives for a wider audience. And this is just one of those wider perspectives that we looked at, our jury looked at more importantly, and said, we like the film, we like the way it was done, and we want to get it out there. And, um, What other films will be showcased at the Get Indigenous Film Festival, Leslie? Oh, you had to ask me that. I don't have my list in front of me. I'm sorry. They'll have to look it up online at Swaya.com. Okay, not a problem, not a problem. But there is several other films, a part of Get Indigenous Film Festival. And if people, like you said, if people want to check it out, you can definitely go to the Swaya website and find it out.

Or you can go or you can just go to a get Indigenous Film Festival, GIFF, and see if you can, it'll pull it up as well. Well, unfortunately, we've reached the end of the hour. This hour went by so fast. Thanks to everyone who called in. And a big thank you to our guest, Leslie Willlock, Patricia Michaels, Kinsell Drake, and Ryan Flynn. And don't forget to keep listening here on KUNM for Native American Calling, where they will be talking about the Pathways Indigenous Arts Festival today at 11 o'clock. And tomorrow, they'll also be discussing the Santa Fe Indian Market. So please stay tuned to KUNM on 89.9. But let's keep this conversation going on Facebook at KU&M Radio and on our Instagram at KUNM News. If you've missed any part of the show, you can stream it at KUNM.org or subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast and Spotify. and tune in next week when we'll be talking about the rise of new internet and social media-savvy media sources in our state. Thank you, as always, to our hardworking team. Our engineer was Marina Spencer, Florian Knowles, handled the phones today, and Ty Bannerman produced the show. I'm Jeanette Didios on Let's Talk New Mexico here on 89.9, KU&M.

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