What Republican candidates need to do to win Michigan

The fatal shooting of a teenager at a protest in Seattle has gone unsolved for six years. This is open in your face. How are there no answers? Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say they've never talked to police. Did police ever call you? Not once. Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new true crime series on the Embedded podcast from NPR. It's the Metro on WDET. I'm Robin Vincent. You can get to Coriander Kitchen and Farm by car, but some people come by boat, down a canal on Detroit's far east side, pass backyards and boathouses. They tie up at a dock beside the striped umbrellas of the restaurant's new outdoor bar. Coriander Kitchen is located in the Venice of Detroit. A web of canals running inland off the river. Now, the city is weighing whether to close the canals. It's a flood fix. Nearly every parcel in this neighborhood sits inside a federal flood hazard area, and the city has money set aside to change that. But the very idea of closing canals has residents up in arms. They fended off a version of this plan a few years ago. Allison Harris is chef and co-owner of Coriander Kitchen, built into a fish marina that once sat empty. Tracy Rubin chairs the Jefferson Chalmers Water Project. That's a residence group that's been working on this flooding for years. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thanks for having us. And I want to note the city of Detroit has yet to respond to our request for comment. Detroit Building Authority Director Tyrone Clifton recently told Fox 2, we're going to look at all the options and one option could be closing canals. But it has to be a factual option we can bring back to the community so they can understand everything behind it and how it affects them too. Tracy, you've lived with this a long time. Help me understand how bad a problem flooding is in Jefferson Chalmers. It's a very bad problem. It's a hazardous problem. But some of the misconstruement, I'll say, it's not just flooding from a rain event. It's also flooding from the city backing up. The pipe's backing up or the freeway drainage not being open like it should. So we're the lowest point. It ends up in our basements. It floods. We're going to get into that in a little bit because I realize the Army Corps of Engineers, their report does not cover. That aspect, the different ways that you all are experiencing flooding, that it is not just an issue with the canals and the river. But first, I want to know this. Back in June, the city said it was hiring someone to come out and talk to the people this flood plan affects. That was a couple months ago.

What do you actually know right now about what's coming? Well, I've spoken to her. I was at the DBA meeting when she was introduced and she was actually approved for the job. It's Ms. Kayana Sessams. The Detroit Building Authority meeting. Yes. And Tyrone did send her, have her call me, and we had a meeting. And we, I toured the area with her and showed her what's going on. And we started at Coriander Kitchen because that's the best place to start. Why is that the best place to start? Just to see part of what's going on in that neighborhood, how the canals come together, the people come together. You've got your dogs there. You got dogs walking across street. You got the ducks walking paths, you know, the beavers, everything. And then you got good food, just a meeting place if you want. Right next door, you got the Detroit River Sports. You can sit there and see families get on the kayaks and then just walk over to the water. what, eight steps, ten steps, and see him. What was her reaction? I mean, I think about the first time that I hung out at Coriander Kitchen and it felt like this real authentic kind of community crossroads. It is. That's exactly what it is. Allison and everybody involved has done a great job. And Allison came in. helping the neighborhood, having free barbecues for the neighborhood. So everybody could see her at the church doing a chili cookoff so everybody could taste some of the food they had. So you're going to make me cry. No crying. No crying yet. We're too early in the conversation. So Kayana, when she got there, we had our lunch. It was really nice, had what we ate. And I said, okay, you ready to start the tour? She said, yes. I said, okay, follow me. We walked to the edge of the property. to the canal. And I said, okay, look out over the canal. And we saw the kids go and everything. I said, this will be closed down. I said, this will stink. This will be a hazard if these canals are closed. And she was pretty surprised. Yeah, what did she say to you? She was, I could see the look on her face. She was very surprised because that was part of the issue. When I went to the DBA meeting, I invited everybody. Come out and see. what this proposal will do, what it is that you're planning to understand and understand the people here and that. What the main thing that they said, it doesn't need to be. We don't need that. We don't need the canals closed. And one of the things I asked them, just help us keep the water where it's supposed to be. Don't take the water. Well, what do you mean by the canals becoming a hazard if they close? Well, it's a natural waterway. There's animals. And then you still have Gross Point, who's allowed to dump their sewage into the water.

Okay, so if you take the water away, what happens? You have turtle eggs laid down there, duck eggs, everything. And then you have sewage. It's going to stink. So this is a potential real issue, not just for people. This is a big environmental concern as well. Yes. Allison, about six months ago, we had Blake Granham on the show. She's a longtime resident of Jefferson Chalmers. I want to listen to her speaking about the neighborhood. The places, it's too special. It is not unsafe. It is actually a very safe place to grow up and live. I get emotional because I look at my childhood and I look at where I am today. And I feel like I'm such a kind and giving and empathetic person. And that came from my neighborhood. I feel like the coolest people are from Detroit and just a... Just a few of them are from Jefferson Chalmers. It's so quiet. It's so peaceful. And people, it's just amazing. That's not an option. The flooding does not outweigh how amazing it is to live over there. Allison, your restaurant, Coriander Kitchen, has a street address that some of your customers never use. They come by boat. Put me on that dock on a Saturday afternoon. Yeah, well, we live in a waterside city, which I don't think is the way that a lot of people experience Detroit. I'm really excited and proud of a lot of the work that the Parks Department has been doing to revitalize the waterfront and make it accessible to people. And... While that's all happening, I still feel like most of Detroit doesn't know like the most interesting part of the Detroit waterways, which I'm probably biased, but for me is the canals. Anybody who comes to visit me and I take them out on a paddleboard around the canals and under the river, they're just blown away because it's not just this waterfront with this big static drop-off. There is all these like natural areas. There's yesterday morning. sat out on the dock writing my prep list and got to watch Terrible Tom, my nickname for the gray heron. He's not terrible. He's just doing his job, but he hunts and stalks in the morning and looks very devious. I'm glad you clarified he is not. He's not terrible. And I saw a green heron the other day. We see mink, all those things regularly. And When I first experienced Fisherman's Marina, which many residents still know it as Fisherman's Marina, we actually haven't taken down the old sign. It's a bit in disrepair because we don't know what to do with it because we want to keep it.

It's an expensive project. This is where the restaurant is located. Yeah, Fisherman's Marina. It was also known as Tommy's boat livery. A lot of people still call it Tommy's. And so when I first experienced that space, when my business partner's husband, Alex Howbert, showed us the space. He had purchased the building because he grew up kayaking and sailing in that area. And it had been his dream. He'd gone to Tommy's as a kid. It had been his dream to revitalize that property. And he came and he showed it to me. And truth be told, I never thought I would actually open a restaurant. And you're not supposed to fall in love with a place. When you're doing restaurant business, you're supposed to think of all these other things first. But I fell in love with a place and said, like, we need to make this. waterway and this dock available to people that they can come and enjoy its beauty and sit together and feel what it feels like to be on the water because that's part of who we are as Detroiters and I want us to be able to like expand that experience to more Detroiters. So you saw an opportunity for some true transformation. Yeah, I mean, it was a huge transformation for sure. You and your business owner, Gwen Meyer, grow the food. She farms, you cook, and people paddle in to eat it or drive in. Your menu changes with the solstice. Many things your business runs on are out of your control. The soil, the season, the water. I see you nodding over there. What is that like? I mean, it's really insane. Everything's out of control, out of our control all the time. The only thing we can control is, you know, how we show up and the values that we hold doing the work that we do. And that is really what informs, you know, how we operate. It does take an incredible amount of resilience. and grit to do it, which is part of the thing that is so alarming about all of this for me is the fact that there's a lot of people in the community who have made huge investments. I mean, we obviously ourselves and our other business partner, Amy Hammerel and Alex, Alex Halbert, have all made huge investments in that space with our time, with our money. But. The neighborhood overall, the residents, not just the residents on the canals, but the residents in the neighborhood as well are like what is making this neighborhood so special and revitalizing it right without help. You know, and so. That's what's so special to me and the idea that we're already contending with all of these things that are so far outside of our control with the weather, with the federal government, with, you know, how small business lending is working, all of these things. Like the current status of like financial, you know, help for small business has been really up and down a lot in the last few years.

And so to then add on top of that, we're going to take away this thing that like never in my wildest dreams did I think could be taken away. And I remember when the original proposal came out, which everyone, you know, really reacted very vehemently to. You're talking about a couple years ago, the one that residents fended off, that included potentially closing the canals. Right. I said, there's no way this is going to happen. And then when it came back around again, because I just seemed so ludicrous, it's like if you, I mean, you wouldn't see this. And no one would suggest this in Gross Point. No one would suggest this in St. Clair Shores. We're going to think about that, too, in a moment, how different things are across city lines. But I want to stay on this idea if we could. that the canals bring a lot of joy, but also a lot of uncertainty. And one option to deal with the uncertainty of flooding is a gate that shuts during high water. The Army Corps of Engineers says it could stay shut for long stretches of the season. How would that affect Coriander Kitchen? I mean, I think as Tracy pointed out, it would... cause the water to be stagnant. I don't... Your business, what would it mean for the restaurant? Right. Well, I'm saying if it would cause the water to be stagnant, I think it would start to smell. I think the wildlife would not stay there. It would become a much different... place. And it's hard for me to understand how bad it could get. But I know that it would definitely impact my business and probably greatly, depending on the impact on the waterway and how that feels to the customer. Because we are not a restaurant that people happen upon. If you get to Coriander Kitchen and Farm, you were trying to come to Coriander Kitchen and Farm. You're a destination restaurant. Right. And so. If the canals were to start being closed for significant portions of the year of this season, I don't think the restaurant would continue to exist. I think that the nearly million dollars we've invested as a restaurant, the 15 years I've spent in my life building up to this project would... You know, I'm never going to say completely wasted because, you know, the journey is part of the, the journey is part of the process, right? But it would be devastating. Tracy, there was a protest in June. Residents set sail on a flotilla to raise awareness about the potential closure of the canals. At the time, you didn't talk about the view or the vibes. You said people make money down here. Boat rentals, bait shops. a restaurant as we've been talking about. Why lead with that? Well, it's the economic times. You know, it's already hard for a lot of people. And they've found like their niche, what they can do to help supplement their income, you know, in a beautiful way.

Like I can say my neighbor. She used to rent her boat wells to the fishermen. And the fishermen show up 5 o'clock in the morning. You hear those doors shut. And they come from all over the state. You know, when I was on the water with another reporter, we passed by two other fishermen. He said he was from Alginac. You know, so they come from everywhere to be there. And like her, she's on, she's retired. You know, she has a fixed income. So that took away some of her income because she had to fix her seawar herself. So now she's not only lost income, she's paying. She's still paying for that. So there's a lot of people, if you ride down the water, you'll see. You can see where people have boats stored. Do we want to take more money away from everybody nowadays? It's the Metro on WDET. I'm Robin Vincent. I'm speaking with Tracy Rubin. She chairs the Jefferson Chalmers Water Project and Allison Harris, chef and co-owner of Coriander Kitchen and Farm. We're discussing how the city wants to help stop flooding there, closing the canals. that define the neighborhood is one of the options on the table. Tracy, I realize you do a lot of outreach in the neighborhood. Last fall, your group surveyed nearly 300 waterfront properties. Yes. What did you find? The report, it showed how many properties there were, how many seawalls were in disrepair, properties that were either owned by the city. the land bank or people in the neighborhood. And it shows which ones needed a little bit of repair, a lot of repair, or just, okay, let's start over. And it showed which ones who had maybe riprap, which is more natural shoreline resilience versus the seaw. So the people who did that, they documented every single property. You know, they got a grant to do that. This is stuff the city should have been doing. I want to think about a canal in the neighborhood called Fox Creek. It runs a little over a mile inland from the river. And it's also the city line. Yes. You've both brought up Gross Point. There's Gross Point Park on one side, Detroit on the other. The Army Corps found a solid steel wall running the whole length of the Gross Point side. And what you've been telling me is on the Detroit side, it's whatever each property owner put up. Or it's just there. The property I have on that side, because I have property on both sides of the street. The property I have, the Army Corps engineer built it way back, and it's dirt. sandbag, rocks, it's natural. And it didn't flood. It didn't get breached. My neighbors got breached. And the house to the right of me belongs to the land bank when it got breached. What do you make of this contrast between the two cities here? It's horrible. And Detroit helped pay for theirs.

And then they immediately got out of the floodplain with theirs fixed. You know, we get people who, like, I do a lot of tours for people to see what's going on, see it in real time. And then I'll just show them everything and I'll say, okay, you want me to show you one of the big giant things that can fix all this? They're like, sure, take us to it. And I go, no, look over there. Look across the water. It's the fixed. It's the major fixed for the whole area. And just that alone could get us out of the floodplain, not stop logs, not Bill Gates. But you're saying you need the help because four in 10 households in Jefferson Chalmers are living in poverty. There's great need in this part of the city. But the city doesn't have a lot of money. Yes, they do. Well, Detroit has a lot of poverty. We know that much, specifically child poverty. So. Someone hearing this might say, why should the city prioritize Jefferson Chalmers when there's so much work to be done on things like public transit, on education, on getting more money into schools and ensuring that people have jobs and enough food to eat? What do you say to that? I say there's already $20 million sitting with the city that has been allocated to get this done. Oh, go ahead. Well, I just, I'm glad you brought that up because there's a gap in what your group found could help solve this issue versus how much money the city has. I want to kind of lay that out. The high number comes from the Army Corps of Engineers. They looked at keeping the canals open and building up the seawalls instead. And it priced that at 88 million. Your side did its own survey this year and came back with just 17 million. The city has 20 million to address this. The city didn't respond to our questions about this again. But why do you think there's that gap? I'm going to say people not doing their due diligence and coming to physically look. at the situation. Even in the city's new Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that they just put out August 7th, it says in there all this different stuff about put your proposal in and do this and do that. And then maybe on the eighth page, it says, take a tour. Shouldn't that be done first? I would also say that I assume that that $88 million includes the repairs of city-owned properties, which were taken out of our... Well, not actually. Because, and I don't know where they got the $88 million. I know what my neighbor's paid. My neighbors paid $20,000 per lot.

My one neighbor has two lots. She paid $40,000. We have companies already who've worked in our area. Have a couple other neighbors who've done theirs. It does not equal $88 million. It doesn't even equal $20 million. And some of them can be riprap. or natural stone, which is just something that's engineered. It doesn't take 88 million. When the city started repairing seawalls for low-income homeowners this year, you welcomed it. So I want to put this last question to both of you. I mean, I realize you're not against everything that the city is doing here. You just want to be heard more precisely from the city. What would you say yes to next? Sea walls and shoreline resilience. Rip, rap, natural. Keep it the way it is. Yeah, I would say, um... Let's find a way, which in my opinion is exactly what Tracy said, to continue the unique nature and unique landscape that we have that, as Tracy has said, is providing income to people and is also providing property values to people, which is so important for the city of Detroit that people's property values continue to gain traction. And so the idea that we would forfeit the idea of this unique place that is allowing those gains for residents in order to have a simpler, cleaner. solution that doesn't involve having to work with residents and individual residents just seems like a really short-sided plan to me. And so, yeah, what I would welcome is us figuring out a way to help people get the seawalls that they need and to figure out a way going forward to have ordinances that allow us to make sure that the work that needs to be ongoing to continue to happen. Alison Harris is chef and co-owner of Coriander Kitchen and Farm, and Tracy Rubin chairs the Jefferson Chalmers Water Project. Tracy, Allison, thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much.

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Metro on WDET. I'm Robin Vincent. They say all politics is local, but these days, that doesn't appear to be true. Instead, a lot of it is national because that's where the drama is. Much of it at the hands of President Trump and those with whom he disagrees. And if you do disagree with the president, you're more likely to lose during election year. That's why Trump's endorsements for Senate candidate Mike Rogers and gubernatorial candidate John James means so much. But who are these candidates outside of Trump's endorsement? What do they stand for? And what do they need to do to win come November? Dennis Darnoy is the founder of Densar Consulting based in Farmington. He often promotes Republican candidates. He's here now to discuss the Republicans advancing to the general election in both the Senate and governor's race. Dennis, welcome back. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. So John James had President Trump's endorsement. Two rivals who dropped out quickly endorsed him. He still finished at about 50% against Perry Johnson. Jocelyn Benson on the Democratic side got 83%. What does this say about the Republican coalition in Michigan right now? Sure. And, you know, you could flip that around and say, look at how Mike Rogers did versus how El Ciyadh and Haley Stevens did. I mean, what it showed is that Republicans had a competitive primary. There were two different visions, really, John James and Perry Johnson. Mike Cox was still on the ballot, but at that point in time, he had dropped out and already sent his support to John James. And there's just, there was a really good debate on where they wanted to take the state. Perry Johnson had a certain view of it. John James, having, you know, served two terms in Congress, having run for the U.S. Senate twice, was a well-known commodity. And so having President Trump come in and endorse him as early as he did really helped solidify that support behind John James. And now as, you know, he won and now it's on to the general election. So, you know, both parties right now face the challenge of solidifying and unifying. There are, you know, members of each party who are disappointed that their candidates weren't successful. But, again, you know, the primary is over and now the big prize in the general elections here. So both parties are really focused Republicans have their convention coming up on August 22nd. As you know, John James just announced his candidate for lieutenant governor, all meant to... come out of that August 22nd convention working together in lockstep and trying to, you know, win the general election up and down the ticket. Since we're still feeling the reverberations of the primary election, I'm wondering if there's anything that really surprised you from it.

You know, on the Republican side, you know, there were a few races where candidates that were expected to win didn't. I think, again, I mean, Republicans have done a pretty good job right now of, you know, unifying and focusing on a collective message. Sometimes you don't see that immediately after the primary. I mean, honestly, you know, I mean, I think everyone has to recognize, and they do that it's a tough year for Republicans. I mean, it just naturally is the president's party. always struggles in mid-term elections, so the sooner that they can start to focus on a collective approach to it, you know, the better off they're going to be. So, you know, again... You know, it would have, if you're the John James campaign, you would have liked to finish higher than 50%. You know, you really want to make a strong statement. But again, it seems as if those who are opposed to him are, you know, solidifying behind his candidacy. And his pick for Lieutenant Governor and Jay DeBoyer is something that's going to really, you know, strengthen the heart of conservatives. And those who maybe, you know, had some questions about his conservative bona fides had that answered with this pick. So again, at the end of the day, I think. Republicans are doing what they need to do to prepare themselves for the convention and then the, you know, the short sprint to the general election. I mean, it's true that this is a bad year for Republicans, but it seems like it's particularly bad when we think about President Trump. I mean... You think about the war in Iran. You think about how the cost of living is going up, up, up. Is this moment more unusual than many in terms of what the Republican Party is dealing with? It's more unusual due to the fact that President Trump, you know, enjoys injecting himself into things. And so we've seen that with as soon as El-Sayed was the nominee, the president coming out and directly... attacking him and speaking on him. That is unusual. That's just not something you normally see. Going back to the question you just asked me about surprise, I'm not surprised, but one of the things that was indicative in this primary is that Republicans only had 930,000 people turnout for their primary, where Democrats had 1.5 million turnout. So we, we, you know... That's quite a contrast. It is quite a contrast. And we, again, Republicans know that there is a bit of an enthusiasm gap. And for many... of the reasons that you say. You know, Republicans who supported President Trump did so in part because they are opposed to forever wars and intervention. And obviously, you know, we can see what's going on in Iran. You know, there were promises that gas prices would be the lowest that we've ever seen. That certainly is not the case. Our agricultural community, the second largest, you know, part of our economy, is struggling due in part to tariffs. We have an environment.

with Canada that used to be friendly that is now more adversarial. So these are all things that, again, Republicans know that they have to deal with and make the campaign season a little bit tougher. But as you started this segment off, what Republicans need to do is it is all politics is local. And you can, you know, as a Republican say, who has had control of state government for the past eight years? And you can point to the Democrats. You can point to where we are as a state. You know, at one point in time, we used to be competitive nationally. Now we're struggling against regional, you know, powerhouses like Ohio and Indiana. So I think the more that Republicans can keep the focus on Michigan and Michigan policies, the better off they're going to be. But, of course, that's very difficult when you have a president who likes to interject himself. Okay, so what Republicans need to do in Michigan is actually harness this message of, yes, we know you're in pain right now to voters. We know that things cost too much money. We know that this is a moment where you are frustrated. And we can change that because we can change Michigan. They need to essentially not be thinking about and not be pointing to what's happening at the national level. Exactly. I mean, and look, it's two sides of the same coin. It's the affordability issue. And so Democrats are going to say life is less affordable because of President Trump's policies. Republicans here in Michigan have to say our life and our quality of life has become more expensive here in Michigan due to some of the things that the Democrats have done, especially on the state budget and especially on, you know, some of the things. And that's like why do Republicans point to the MEDC? Well, because we're handing out the Michigan Economic Development Corporation. Yes, thank you. You know, because, you know, we're handing out hundreds and hundreds. of millions of dollars of taxpayer money for promises of jobs that never happen. And so when you say we're going to refocus that, when you say we're going to refocus some of the priorities of departments, when you do... you know, say we're going to root out fraud and wasteful programs. That is how Republicans are making their argument that they're going to be able to have more money to put back into things that directly impact Michigan's lives. I want to think about that a little bit more in an order to do so. I'd like us to travel back in time to before the primary election to a heated gubernatorial debate with Mike Cox and Perry Johnson and John James, who. was speaking about his background and the things he hopes to do if he gets elected. Mike Cox, I'm the son of a CEO who is a truck driver. His father was a mason. His father was a sharecropper. His father was a slave. How dare you shame the steps it takes to come up from Mississippi and build a life of prosperity?

for a family like mine. We've been dedicating our lives to service for people like you and people like you. And I'm going to continue that when I'm governor. Because I understand what it takes to bring people together to accomplish tough missions and to make sure that everybody has prosperity. The things that we're going to be doing to use public resources to execute this is starting skilled trades training in public schools and in private schools. The things we're going to be doing is prioritizing Vogue. over woke vocational schools, over woke universities that are trying to get rid of Western civilization. We're going to be making sure that we have healthier Michiganders investing in wraparound services, public-private partnerships so you can keep more money in your pocket. These are the types of things that are going to bring us together and make us all more healthy rather than resorting to cheap attacks. Okay, so this is some of what you've been talking about. John James is running on cutting costs and lowering taxes. Who are the voters who like James the most? And what is it that you think they like about him? Is it that message we just heard? Well, certainly. If you look at his background, being a small business person, he understands a lot of the challenges that we're facing and that small businesses face. He understands the impact that regulation. can have, you know, department regulation has on, on businesses and the costs that are associated with that and the hoops that you have to jump through. You know, I think when he talks about vocational schools, there is this sense. and an understanding, I think even nationally, but here in Michigan, that maybe a four-year degree isn't necessarily for everyone and that there are opportunities out there that if you could, let's say, align high school curriculum with vocational skills and trade schools that some of these students who look at and say, I don't want to go to a four-year school, can already get a leg up when they're coming out of high school and have an opportunity to earn some very good money and significant. money, you know, sooner than, sooner than later. So I think it's taking a different approach and different look. And I think when you speak to a lot of people, you know, in rural communities who understand some of the challenges that it takes to keep a family business going. These are all the individuals that are receptive to this message. And I would also say that there are many in our metro area in McComb, Oakland, and Wayne that hear him talk about that issue. And it perks their ears up. And they say, yeah, that's something I'm interested in. Why can't we do that as a state? Why can't we prepare some of our younger individuals for entry into the job world? sooner than later? Well, when you talk about an issue that's resonating with both rural and suburban and city voters, that also brings data centers to mind. John James says that should be a local decision, and he supports a moratorium on new data centers until there's a local control standard.

Jocelyn Benson hasn't called for a moratorium. She has told us she'd like to see stricter regulations on data centers. Is this the one issue that Democrats and Republicans in Michigan agree on most? I would think so. Yeah, it's definitely one that has cross-party appeal. Some for different reasons. I mean, some will focus on the environmental. issues. Some will focus on, you know, more of the, again, water usage, energy rates, et cetera, et cetera. And then others will look at it and say, you know, a lot of these things are done in secret. They're done with NDAs. There is no public input. It's not good governance. And so, yes, you do see a cross of Republicans and Democrats looking at this issue and saying, you know, let's have something sensible. And a moratorium, which we've seen go across nationally, is something that makes a lot of sense. have an edge here, though? Well, I think so in the sense of if you're going to, and this is an if, if you have a governor who's going to be a full-throated supporter of data centers and not be specific in terms of what she would oppose, not be specific in terms of what she would allow. And you have a Republican candidate saying, look, I want. local control to make decisions. We'd like to have, you know, open meetings. We'd like to have, you know, make sure that electricity costs don't rise, that environmental protections are there to make sure that the local systems of, you know, water control can actually handle the size of these big data centers. I think you can get, you know, have a leg up if you're a Republican candidate. And this election is going to be a close one. So anytime you have a close election, a little margins here and there certainly make a big difference. Republican candidates right now who are taking this opportunity to point to Governor Gretchen Whitmer's very strong support of data centers in the state and the fact that she was at the groundbreaking for the Celine Township. mega data center that has so many people up in arms and she was throwing a shovel into the ground and and smiling and posing with members of big tech yeah and and and sort of the pushing it through quickly And again, you know, making the argument, well, we need to take advantage of this because if we don't, other states will. And again, a lot of local communities are sitting there and saying, well, wait a second, has there been due diligence done? What about the noise pollution that you have from that and the impact that has on my, you know, on our family's life? What about the impact to, you know, the quality of our life as well as, you know, the housing prices? So there is there is that. And the other issue is that. that the MPSC, the Michigan Public Service Commission, is the one who oversees utility rates. And a lot of what they've agreed to, which, again, the members are appointed by the governor, has been very much on the side of the utilities and data centers. So again, when you have a Republican candidate coming out and saying, wait a second, I want to look and maybe possibly reform the Michigan Public Service Commission to make sure that electricity rates stay low and that rate payers aren't the ones who are actually having to foot the bill eventually.

for these data centers, it does give Republicans or any candidate taking that stance a leg up. But at the end of the day, data centers seem to remain something that can unite people across the political spectrum and unite candidates across the political spectrum. I'm wondering if there is any issue you can think of where there's more agreement between the two parties than data centers. Well, I do think that there is some agreement in terms of on two fronts. It's government transparency and openness. I think when you talk to general voters, when you talk about subjecting the executive and the legislative branch to FOIA so that you can understand what's going on behind closed doors, you find cross-party appeal for that. When you talk about... getting money out of politics. Now, that takes many different forms and shapes as to what that means. But I think a lot of people, again, cross-party lines look at that issue and say, you know, there is a lot of dark money and we don't know who's advertising want and why am I getting these texts, et cetera, et cetera. So I think there are areas in which, you know, members of both sides of the partisan divide look at and say, yes, this is something that we agree on that needs to be fixed. It's then generally how do we fix it? That is when you start to see the contention. Back to John James, who again is the Republican nominee for governor. He's received the endorsement of President Donald Trump, and he's denied the validity of the 2020 election. Where does he stand on the political spectrum? Is he a more moderate or radical Republican? Well, I think in terms of where he stands, generally speaking, he's more... I wouldn't call him to the center, but I would say, you know, he's not to the far right. And I think that was one of the issues that you saw in the primary, where there are some very conservative voters in the Michigan Republican Party that would have liked to see him be a little bit more to the right and take, you know, some stronger stances there. You know, but certainly, again, anytime the president's involved, we're going to hear about the 2020 election. And again, you know, that's six years in the past. And I think it would be. better for Republicans if they focused more on the future. But again, when the president comes in and talks about these things, it makes it very, very difficult to do so. So I would say, you know, again, nationally John James is a strong conservative. He's someone who, you know, in the legislation that he's supported in the positions that he's taken, reflects a very conservative stance, a conservative viewpoint. But he's certainly not someone that is going to... be right of, you know, a Laura Luma or someone along those lines.

What do you think John James's path to victory looks like? Because of course there are some people who will say the Democrats have been controlling things for a while. And Michigan is a democratic state. And then we hear no, no, no, no, no, no. Michigan is a purple state. Michigan went for President Trump. Voters are constantly changing their minds about who they want in office. Republican or Democrat. What is his path? Well, generally speaking, his path is that he needs to, and it's not always about margins of victory, but sometimes it's about margins of defeat. So I think he needs to, you know, be very competitive in Wayne County. And again, there isn't the expectation that you're going to win Detroit or that you're going to win Wayne County as Republican. But if you can, if you can, you know, reduce the margin there, win in, you know, McComb County, reduce the margin of defeat in Oakland. And then you go into areas, the outstate areas. and again, the rural counties that are very supportive of Republicans, usually 70, 30, you know, sometimes 65, 35 that they vote for Republicans. And the biggest challenge at all Republicans, including John James, is going to face its turnout. You absolutely have to make sure that your voters are getting out to the polls. And we've seen this in a couple of election cycles where a lot of people who come out and they vote for Donald Trump do not then come out and vote in the midterms. So when you're looking at an election of about 5.5. million, which is being projected right now for this general election, you know, every single Republican vote has to come out and support him, has to support the ticket. We're going to take a quick break. But before we do, when you talk about turnout, that really hinges on candidates who animate people. who really inspire them, who make them feel that this is a moment of change or transformation. I mean, do you think that the Republican candidates can do that? Well, I think that's their challenge. Whether or not they can meet that challenge, we're going to see over the next, you know, 80-some-odd days. And I agree completely that in this election cycle, people need to be motivated and given that reason to turn out. And again, that's why over these next 80 days and starting after the August 22nd Convention, Republicans have to be full-throated in their reason for why the state of Michigan should be supporting them up and down the ticket. It's the Metro on WTE. I'm Robin Vincent. My guest is Dennis Darnoy. He's the founder of Densar Consulting, and he often promotes Republican candidates. We're discussing the candidates on that side of the ticket who are making waves this election season. Coming up, we're going to continue the conversation and hear about who Mike Rogers is and what he wants to do if he's elected to the U.S. Senate. Stay with us.

It's the Metro on WDET. I'm Robin Vincent. It is no secret that President Trump has a lot of influence over our politics, nor that he specifically has a lot of control over the Republican Party. That's why his endorsements of John James for governor and Mike Rogers for Senate meant a lot to the candidates and helped pave their path to victory. We're speaking about their possible paths. to further victory when it comes to the general election with Dennis Darnoy. He's the founder of Densar Consulting, which is based in Farmington. Dennis, I want to turn to Mike Rogers now. What does he hope to accomplish if he's elected to the Senate? Well, certainly he's right now striking a much more moderate tone than his Democratic opponent. I think he's someone who has stated that his background in intelligence and law enforcement is something that he would utilize in the U.S. Senate. Having served not only in Congress but also in the state legislature, he is one who certainly understands the impact that agriculture has on our state. And you've seen a lot of senators, whether they're Republican or Democrat from Michigan want to sit on the Agricultural Committee and be able to help dictate policy there to make sure that Michigan farmers continue to have a leg up. So, you know, he's looking at that totality of it. And again, having the experience that he has, he's someone who could hit the ground running. He doesn't need any on-job training when he's there in Congress. And so, again, I think he's looking at to be someone who quickly ascends into leadership and is a very loud and supportive voice for Michigan. He was once a bit more moderate, though, than he is now. Is that right? Well, yes. I mean, you would say in the Republican Party, when he was in the U.S. House, he was, you know, considered to be very pragmatic and very, you know, very middle of the road, moderate. I think, again, when you compare him in terms of policies to his Democratic opponent, he still strikes that very pragmatic, very moderate, yet conservative viewpoint where he would stand in terms of his colleagues in the U.S. his Republican colleagues in the Senate, I would again argue that he is certainly going to be more in the center, center right of that caucus than he would be on the right side of that caucus. So in many ways, some of the positions that he's taken since he's left the House and since he's become the U.S. candidate or the Republican candidate for U.S. Senate last time and this time around may have been a little bit moved a little bit further to the right. But at the end of the day, I think he's a very pragmatic and sensible individual. And that's how he would serve as senator for Michigan. You mentioned his opponent, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. Mike Rogers has said that he was hoping for someone like El-Syad as opposed to Haley Stevens. He got what he wanted. He's now calling El-Syad anti-Semitic. What are the other moves you think he has in store to defeat El-Syad?

Well, honestly, use a lot of Dr. Abdul El-Sayed's words against them. There are things that he has said both from a policy standpoint as well as more of a cultural or political standpoint that can be used. I think, again, we're talking about whether Michigan's red, blue, they're purple. And the ones who are going to really decide this race, the Senate race, are going to be. people who ticket split. And so I think that, you know, Mike Rogers approach, and you've seen it immediately after the primary, is to go after some of those voters, some of those people who maybe were Steve and supporters. Maybe there are some moderate Democrats who will be more comfortable supporting what Mike Rogers would do in the Senate rather than what Dr. Abdul El-Sayed would. What kinds of things is he using against El-Siyahed? You know, so for example, you know, he... Dr. Abdul El-Sayed's talked about, you know, football and being toxic masculinity, but yet at the same time, he's talking about putting, you know, the head of ogres on spikes, and he's talking about dragging his opponents into the mud and, you know, choking people. I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't talk about, you know, this is detrimental and this is toxic masculinity, but then engage in that same type of behavior. When it comes to policy, you know, we have a $40 trillion budget deficit. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed's talking about a limit. $2555 billion in medical debt. He's talking about Medicare for all. He's talking about helping emerging economies build a new green energy and having financial support for that. So there are things that, again, don't necessarily strike the middle voter, which Congressman Rogers is trying to go after. Dennis Darnoy is the founder of Densar Consulting. Dennis, thank you for joining us on the Metro. As always. Thank you so much for having me.

This is WDET FM, Detroit Public Radio, your connection to news, music, and conversation. And this is the Metro. We'll be right back after the news from NPR and WDET.