Follow the money to the midterm elections; Rediscovering “Riverbend”

From WAB in Atlanta, this is closer look for Monday, August 10th. I'm Rose Scott. We know there's a lot of campaign money for some candidates on Georgia's November ballot, but for others, not so much. Considering there is a lot at stake, we'll examine how down-ballot candidates can benefit from a strong top-of-the-ticket candidate. Also this hour? If you really are what you say you are, help us protect ourselves. Or... Show us how to do it. I don't ever. Ever. Want to hear the words, boy, or colored used again. It was filmed in Georgia back in 1989, considered controversial, and quickly shelved. I'll speak with Oscar-nominated Margaret Avery about the film River Bend, its disappearance, and now Rediscovery. Just ahead, but first, this news. Support for WAB comes from Northside Hospital Cancer Institute, with the most cancer center locations and board certified oncologist in Georgia, treating every type of cancer. Northside Hospital Cancer Institute is built to beat cancer. Support for WAB comes from Alloy Fundraising. Year-in fundraising may seem months away, but the organizations that see the strongest results are planning now. Alloy helps non-profit leaders prepare for successful giving campaigns with strategic fundraising, grants. expertise, fundraising events, and board and donor engagement. Serving as an extension of your team, Alloy helps organizations build momentum before the busiest fundraising season begins. Learn more at Alloyfundraising.com.

And closer look continues from WAB in Atlanta. I'm Rose Scott. As the saying goes, maybe I just made it up, the money is a flowing. Campaign spinning, that is. Candidates for Georgia governor, well, they have their ads. When Keisha Lance Bottoms got elected, she said, We must be good stewards of your tax dollars. Just 30 days later. Taxpayers covered the cost of a first-class plane ticket for Mayor Bottom's husband to fly to the Super Bowl. Worse. $11,000 luxury. How one insider gets the support of another. Flatter him. As governor, I'll be like Trump, but with a southern tongue. Give him money. Actually, he gave me money during his primary. Did you know that? Yes, he gave me. I think a couple of million dollars. Of course, those are from the ads of Rick Jackson and Keisha Lance Bottoms. And at the very top of the November ballot is that Senate race between incumbent Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican challenger Mike Collins. And while we know there's a lot of campaign money for some candidates on the ballot, but for others, they got some pennies. That's it. We'll talk about it. Well, maybe not pennies. Perhaps that wasn't fair, huh Fred. They only had pennies. I don't anybody send me an email. I just got you. We mean I got pennies. I got some money. Considering there's a lot at stake, we're going to examine how down ballot candidates can benefit from a strong top-of-the-ticket candidate and how certain races might even impact the state legislature as we break down what's at stake and follow the money flowing into key races. Also, it's time to take a look at the latest financial reporting because it's now available. I'm joined now by WAB Politics Reporter Raul Bali. an Atlanta-based campaign strategist and demographer Fred Hicks. Welcome. What's up? Hey. Let's begin with this. And, Rallo, I'll start with you. This is, we're in August now, so we still got some months away. How would you describe where all the candidates are on our balance, or statewide, you know, local? What phase is this right now? You're still trying to just get your message out, you know, because some voters, early voting will start? Not now, but it's on the way. A less than two months. Yeah. I think we're right at two months until early voting. We're on the ramp up. I think that be the ramp up phase. I'd call this the ramp up. I mean, you know, you had President Trump come here a couple of weeks ago. You're seeing more and more ads, more campaign events. If you look on the websites of candidates, it's more and more. I mean, I'm getting more and more emails. I did a couple of stops on some other races. Like I did a stop with the Attorney General candidate, the Republican one, Brian Strickland. They're all trying to get attention. When you talk about, you know, Senate and governor getting all the attention, and I talk to these candidates, like you've got to do small events. You've got to do as many events as possible. So that's their strategy. Do small events? Yeah, I mean, because, again, all that money seems to be flowing up near the top. And linking yourself, obviously, you know, Brian Strickland, Tim Fleming, who's the Republican candidate for Secretary of State. And Greg Dolazol, who's the lieutenant governor candidate, they all appeared at the Trump rally. And, you know, all the Democratic candidates appeared, minus Jon Ossoff. They all appeared at the Democratic Convention down in Savannah. It's about getting whatever attention, you know, any of that, any of that media attention that you can get is what they're trying to get. Fred, Raul calls us the ramp up.

Yeah, you know, the, I think that's a fair description because, you know, July is a really slow month historically for fundraising and campaign activities, especially after you go through a contentious primary season that may or may not lead to a runoff. And so in this year's case, the runoff was June 16th. And so it's a time to start refilling your coffers to... work on party unity to hire staff. And so it's really a planning period, right? So the mid-July through the, I mean, mid-June through the end of July, the time where you're doing that, and maybe you're testing out some messaging and stuff like that. And then by the time you get into August, you start, you start the ramp up. And that's a very short period because once you get to Labor Day, traditionally speaking, once you get to Labor Day, it's on and popping, so to speak. Do we know of any shakeups in the campaigns in terms of managers or consultants being brought on, anybody of note that we should talk about? I mean, I know that Scott Bottoms had, has brought on somebody new on her campaign. And so she's brought on a few people, actually, in her sense the, so just for our listeners, a reminder that Mayor Scott Bottoms did not have a runoff. So her portion of the election was over on May 19. So she's had a little bit longer time than Rick Jackson about a month or so. So she's made some pretty strategic hires, some big hires over the last two months or so on her team there. And I think the same thing has happened with Rick Jackson. The other thing you start to see once you get past the primary in terms of hiring is you build out your field strategy. And these are statewide elections. And Georgia has 159 counties, but only a handful of them are really kind of in play. And so in play in terms of that could go either direction. And then you have maybe twice as many where you're trying to take off a little bit of the edge for the other person. So let's say if you're Rick Jackson, you might think, okay, well, Keisha Scott Bottoms is going to win Fulton County. But if I can get her down to 65% instead of 75%, all right, that's a good thing. And if you're at Keesia Scott Bottoms or in the case we saw with Raphael Warnock and Walker in the 22 runoff, he was able to shave off 4, 5, 7%, and several heavily Republican counties in middle and South Georgia that led to a big runoff win. So. You know, so you're building out your field team. So you're doing a lot of hires. You're spending, but not raising a whole lot. So building out your field team, Ro. And the other thing is things come into focus down the ballot. And I think the best example I'd give you is the state house and state Senate races. You know, you talk to lawmakers like, hey, what are the races you're watching? There are two... Support for WAB comes from Northside Hospital Cancer Institute, with the most cancer center locations and board certified oncologist in Georgia, treating every type of cancer. Northside Hospital Cancer Institute is built to beat cancer. Support for WAB comes from Alloy Fundraising. Year-in fundraising may seem months away, but the organizations that see the strongest results are planning now. Alloy helps non-profit leaders prepare for successful giving campaigns with strategic funding.

fundraising, grant expertise, fundraising events, and board and donor engagement. Serving as an extension of your team, Alloy helps organizations build momentum before the busiest fundraising season begins. Learn more at Alloyfundraising.com. 136 state house representatives and state senators. And by my count, I'm got about 14, maybe 15 of those races. that are competitive or at least races that we're going to have to watch. But is that enough for listeners who may not be aware? Is that enough to tip what I guess we could call the balance of power because the Republicans have had a stronghold on the Georgia legislature for some years now? State Senate no. Okay. The state Senate no. The state house is a lot closer. Okay. You have 99 Republicans, 81 Democrats. and you need 91 to hold power. To flip eight seats, that's going to be a big ask. But here's something important I want listeners to know. There's also something I call a working majority. And this is something we're seeing in Washington, D.C., with what Mike Johnson is struggling with. He has a majority, but he can lose one or two members over an issue, and then he's got a problem. In the state house. We're always missing one or two members because either someone's an attorney and he's arguing in court or she's arguing in court or someone is sick. And so, you know, if John Burns remains a speaker and Republicans remain in control but lose more seats, that working majority may become a more complicated issue. And you also give more power to fringe voices because now you need every single vote. These are the things I'm going to be watching for with the state house races. But let's talk about money for these down-the-ballot races. Because, Fred, I mean, what is a good working amount of money? Let's say if you're just running for a state house seat or a state senate seat. And so... Everything, when you're talking about the legislative level, everything depends on the district in what you're running. So I've done state house seats for $5,000, $10,000. I've been involved with states. What do you mean? That's how much you charge them? Per day. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. I mean, the total budget was like $5,000, $15,000. Wow. Someone said that ain't no money. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. I've also been a part of one of the most expensive state senate races in history where it was almost a million dollars spent. And so, you know, they just really varied. What race was that? That was, that covered North Fulton. And that was about 10 years ago. And so it really depends on where you're running. So the rural areas. don't cost as much. To give our listeners an idea of the skill in terms of cost and why that is, let's say, for example, you are on a leading urban hip-hop radio station in Atlanta, and you are a candidate, and you're trying to do the morning drive time 6 to 10 a.m. A spot on the air can range, depending on how much traffic and flows happening, can range from $300 from one airing to it, over $1,000 in airing. If you are anywhere else in the state, drive time is like $30.

And so that's a huge difference. It's a huge, huge, huge, huge difference. And so, um, so these, these. These down-ballot races, when we talk about down-ballot for our listeners again, so top of the ballot is either the federal race or the governor's race, depending on how you want to look at it, and everything else believe that is considered down-ballot. And so you'll see a drop-off in the amount of money, even though they're competing for the same voters. And so when you're running for a secretary-state or attorney general or lieutenant governor or whatever, you have to make a lot of strategic decisions because you're not playing with anywhere near the same amount of money as the governor or the Senate. And that's why non-paid media is... going to be so important. Take our listeners through what non-paid media. Those are, you know, going out to events, doing campaign stops, you know, stopping off at a mall or going to a festival, you know, you're going to see, you know, at the Georgia Chamber, by the way, and I know that's a really big event. But the number of candidates that were, that had tables there and they were just working the room is that's going to be just as important as that Rio Tail politics. The other important thing is, where the money comes from for those down ballot races. I remind people that Governor Brian Kemp in the past has gotten involved and put money using his pack, put money in those races. I would expect the governor may or may not get involved again because he's not on the ballot again, or he may because he's looking down the road and watching what other top candidates do with their money. Let me ask you all this question. What role do the state parties, do they have money to put into? Some of this as well? Yeah, so you're talking about a few different pots of money from which a candidate can draw. So the one that we always see and that we'll talk about it a little bit is the campaign amount, right? And that's, you can go online and see how much, you know, rose for state senate raised, right? Or Raul for governor raised, that kind of thing. But then you have... Can you imagine if Raoul was running for governor? I mean, I can actually see it. Wow. You know, let's make all media free. Right? Public access, everything. And so I'm curious if Raul Bali was running for governor, like what would you advise him to be his campaign slogan, his motto? Oh, his campaign slogan. Well, he's working. Ride with Raul. Oh, ride with Raul. I like that hashtag because, you know, we're in the social media area. We're riding with Raul. Ride with Raul for all. Raoul for all. Righto for all. All right. Have a ball of Bali. Now, Raoul's son is with us in studio. Would you like your dad to be governor? No. 2030 is only four years away. Yeah. I mean, you know, we got to start thinking about it. Let me be very honest. 31 years, 31 years, I have never ever said I want to do that. I'm serious. I have never woken up and said, I want to do that. I've never, as a, as a. No, I've never thought about wanting. Didn't Rick Jackson say that? Never. He's not saying no. Didn't Rick Jackson? I never thought about being up. I never thought about that. Let's get back to this. So you have your campaign account money, right? Then you have independent committee money. And then you have, in the case of certain races and positions, you have national money, which is the type of independent money. And so Robert brought up a really good point that we have this leadership committee money, which we've talked about a lot on the air here, that Bert Jay Jones has that.

Speaker has that the Senate Majority Leader has and that the governor has and they the governor can use that and Bert Jay Jones can use it all the way up through December 31st for this year and so you're talking about millions of dollars sitting out there I do believe that Governor Brian Kemp will use some of that money for Rick Jackson. I absolutely believe that. I don't expect Bert Jay Jones will, but I think that the Governor Brian Kemp will actually do that. So with Rick Jackson, you're talking about this personal funds. You're talking about the amount of money he's raised into his campaign. You're talking about the Republican Governors Association, and you're talking about this Leadership Committee money. Republic is going to outspend Democrats. I don't think there's any question about that. It's going to be about a significant margin. Well, can Aesoft do the same thing? So with the Senate race, so the Senate race, with federal races you have. a bit more restrictions, right, from whom you can take money, and how much and all of that. So Senator Jon Ossoff has raised significantly more money than Mike Collins. However, the National Republicans, so the NRCs, National Republicans Senate Committee has already pledged at least $40 million to support Mike Collins, and that will wipe out Jon Ossoff's individual fundraising advantage. We've got to see what the Democrats are going to do on that side. But the thing is, you know, this is, While there are different races and different pots of money, the messaging is all going to the same phones, mailboxes, TV screens, and all of that. So... your top of the ticket, that is governor-s Senate candidates, will absolutely impact the down-ballot candidates in terms of how many people come out to vote, how many of your party come out to vote, and if you can, you know, what kind of space in terms of the messaging that you can really do. If you just join us, I'm in conversation with Atlanta-based campaign strategist and demographer Fred Hicks and WABE politics reporter Raul Bali as we're taking a look at the spending as of right now because the latest financial reporting is now available. It's not a wild guess, but I'm pretty sure Rick Jackson has more money than anybody right now. It is interesting that he's starting to raise money, though. I do find that interesting. It's something I want to ask him about the next time I see him, about you're also now raising money beyond spending. What is that eventually going to mean down the road? You know, does that mean he gives to other campaigns as well? I'd like to hear that. And he can do that, correct? Yeah, I mean, he could, you know, do a donation to each of the candidates. But also, again, you've got these, you've got these packs, whether it's, you know, as you mentioned, Speaker Burns or Governor Brian Kemp's. So those are going to be interesting. What about outside money? Are we seeing some of that flow in?

And I know that there was concerns that Scott Bottoms probably would have a lot more. Early on had a lot more money flowing from outside of Georgia. That's still the case? Do you mean outside committee money or just donations? Donations. Oh, got you, gotcha, got you. Yeah, I mean, because, listen, campaigns, and especially stuff like right now in Georgia, even though it's a state-level campaign, it has national implications. I think Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is going to be here this week with Mayor Scott Bottoms, the campaign, because a couple of things to keep in mind. Number one, we've never ever had an African-American woman governor in the entire history of the United States, not just Georgia, but the entire history of the United States. And so there are those who are going to rally around that particular cause. But then also, if you can break the Republican, the 20-plus-year Republican stronghold on Georgia this year, then that makes a path, the Democrats' path to the presidency in 28, a lot easier, right? Because then you're talking about... how elections are handled. You're talking about having a big advocate and bullhorn and the state and things like that. And now with the Democrats talking about moving around the 28th schedule and making it giving Georgia a much more prominent role, winning this election is very significant nationally. Let's dig into these numbers, Fred, because you sent over a spreadsheet and I'm looking at this. And I see, again, we mentioned Rick Jackson, but I'm looking at his ending cash balance and his ending as opposed to Keish Land's Scott Bottoms. I mean, this is almost $3 million plus Difference. Break this down for our listeners here. So you can, and this is all public information, you can go to ethics.g.org, click on the peach file button and then just play around with that and look at all the data. So everything is there. Rick Jackson throughout the course of this campaign, and mind you, he only got in the race in March. He's raised. Was it March or he declared? He declared at the beginning of March. At this point, at this point, in this period ended July. July 31st, and they had to report by this past Friday, by midnight this past Friday. And so Rick Jackson has on hand at this point, well, as of Saturday, had about $4.3 million on hand. Mayor Scott Bottoms, $772,000 on hand. As a matter of fact, Rick Jackson's ending balances cash on hand of $4.3 is just a mill short, almost a mills short of what Mayor Scott Bottoms have raised overall of $5 million. Wow. What do you make of that? Because in a lot of this is... His money or donations? A lot of his money. A lot of his money and money that's starting to come in. So what I always say to people is that whether it's a loan or is donated, money is money and can be spent the same. And so I don't worry as a, you know, I look at it, I wouldn't worry as much about his on hand if I'm a case on his bottom supporter. But her having less than a million dollars with fewer than 90 days to go, that's a problem. That's a challenge. Because campaigns are expensive. It's easy to blow through a million dollars in just a couple of weeks between your TV, your digital, your field, and all of those kinds of things like that. She should be, if you're a Keisha Bottom supporter, you want to see her at this point over a mill, over 1.5, at around this point. Again, not even so much because you're worried about what Rick Jackson says. She's acknowledged all on the stump everywhere that she's not going to have the kind of money that he has. But you have to have enough money to do what you need to do. And, you know, 772,000 at this point is a lot. He did an $87 million ad buy a couple of weeks ago. And she has $772,000 on hand. That's, I'm not going to call it a red flag, but that's a yellow flag. And Democrats are going to have to get on board soon. 80 million, 87 million ad buy, and that's mostly radio TV, digital, just across the board. Everything. Everything. Everything.

If you have a screen, he's on it. Yeah. That is true. I mean, and the commercials, I mean, if you're watching just live television, you notice the difference in the number of commercials. What kind of the big moments that I'm trying to look ahead to, at this very moment, Senator Jon Ossoff and Congressman Susan Collins, they have two debates. At this moment, both Jackson and. Mayor Scott Bottoms have both accepted a debate, just not the same debate. So. Yeah, and we should note we offered here on Closer Look, we offered a town hall forum to them. And Jackson's campaign said, no, we don't want to do that. We'd rather have a one-on-one. So we were still awaiting a date. And we have yet to hear back from Mayor Scott Bottoms campaign in terms of what they want to do. But what's the issue with the debates here? I think it's formatics. I think the Jackson campaign wants a certain format. And I haven't heard the reasoning behind the Scott Bottoms campaign about not accepting the other. So there's one debate by. Well, I want to be very clear, too, because the Jackson campaign said they would only do a debate with gray media, which is the local. That's WANF television. Okay. So. That's what we were told. Because that's a town hall style form versus the Atlanta Press Club, which is much more of a kind of one-on-one panel debate. We were offering a forum too, Town Hall, but we're not. Now, I just want to, I'm sure that the Jackson campaign is buying ad time with gray media, right? I assume so. I'm just checking. I'm just trying to, I'm not connecting dots. I'm just saying. But it sounds like the Jackson campaign is going, they're more comfortable with that format. Granted, you are offering that same format as well. Well, right, and a 101 with everyone. And we also listened. We extended this to candidates for Secretary of State, Attorney General as well, State Superintendent as well. Here's what I will say. And Fred, you work with candidates. So. This happens when you run for an office. People want to do debates or interviews with you. And it's just curious to which candidate and the type of quote interview they do. Getting interview by somebody on your staff to me is... It's not the same as we're an interview. And the big thing, and you know what? Okay, this is Raoul's rare opinion on the air. Do those interviews now because when we get down to the crunch, it's going to be really hard to be booking interviews in October. Yeah. You know, because then we're going to be making a lot of decisions on what we cover, what we can cover in those last weeks. The ability for those interviews to pop out more is probably right now in the next couple. Like, they're trying to, like, campaigns are trying to balance. Do we do a big sit-down interview now when maybe everyone's not paying attention yet? Do we try to do it closer to the election? But then, you know, the news organizations are trying to figure out to balance their coverage. Right. Because we're not just covering politics. Well, and folks want to hear, Fred and Roe, folks want to hear from these candidates beyond attacking your...

candidate, whether it's whatever sides you're on. Yeah. Because folks, they want to hear policy and platform and what you're playing, what you got. And look what happened last week with the, with, you may have seen like one of my questions on data centers went viral, asking these candidates about data centers. Rick Jackson being very specific on what his Medicaid proposal would look like. You know, so yeah, you're absolutely right. People want. You know, yes, people do hear the attack. Look, campaigns wouldn't run negative ads if they didn't matter. Absolutely. But people also want meat and potatoes. What are you going to do about Medicaid? What are you going to do about this idea of property taxes versus sales taxes versus income? How is it affordability? You know, obviously expanding Medicaid, you know, imminent domain, data centers, all of that. Yeah. Affordability overall. I think to your question, I think the. So yes, I do believe that the candidates should take advantage of this window, especially right now when they're trying to raise money, refill their coffers and the media is willing to do, sit down to do these interviews. I hope that when I say we, I mean, putting on my hat as a voter, that we will have the opportunity to hear from these down-ballot candidates, right? Whether you're talking about Ag Commissioner, you're talking about Secretary of State, Attorney General, particularly given what's at stake in this election. And what I mean by that is... You just take Secretary of State, right? So you have two candidates in that, and, you know, the Secretary of State is in charge of two major things, the business filings. and for the state, for businesses and all of that, but also elections. And we know the elections are always a critical and controversial thing in Georgia with respect to the Attorney General. You know, what kind of AG's office are we going to have going forward? I think that's really important. Lieutenant Governor is second up, something should happen, and they're the leader of the Senate. And so I think these are all very, very interesting things. And Raul mentioned that there are some potential swing seats out there. I think that'll be really important because just remind our listeners that... Republicans called a special session after the last primary. They didn't do anything with it. But they also hinted that there will be another one. And I believe that there will be one after the November election, depending on what happens. So they will do redistricting at that point in time. And I could easily see a scenario play out in Georgia, like played out in North Carolina, where let's say Mayor Scott Bottoms. Well, let's say Mayor Scott Bottoms or Josh McLaurin who's running for LG, let's say they, or any Democrat went to state-wide seat or Republicans retain their hold on the legislature. When they call that special session, I could see Republicans going in and changing the power structure. They did it to Casey Cagle within their own party about 10, 12 years ago. So it's not unheard of or unprecedented, and we've seen this play out in other states when there's been a change in power. And so for Democrats, this is really important for Democrats, it can't just be about Scott Bottoms or Jon Ossoff. they need to win these seats in the state legislature. And so I hope that we'll get a chance to hear. And that was a really big message at the Democratic convention down in Savannah, you know, making sure that any Democrat voter who shows up goes all the way down the ballot. That was one of the big messages at that convention. As we wrap up, I have a listener who says, so Rose, I'm just curious, does Fred think that because Jackson has more money, that it's a shoe in? Does it always happen?

Great question. Thank you listening for asking that. And y'all continue sending in stuff even after the show because we talk about it afterwards. Don't tell people what we do. But no, so I always say you have to have enough money to do what you need to do. And that's really the bottom line for that one. I think this election is going to come down to 12,000 to 15,000 votes somewhere in that margin. And so you need to have, if you're either candidate, you need to have enough to swing that along the way there. My concern that I was trying to express route to 772 is, again, it's not because of how much Rick Jackson has. Because ultimately, to do what she needs to do if you're... am I concerned if you're a Democrat, is that she's going to need to raise another three, three and a half million over the next two months in order to get where she needs to go. Is that possible? It is possible. Okay. All right. As we then finally wrap up, Raoul, what are you going to be paying attention to now? In terms of the, I'm really trying to do more stories on those down-ballot races. We did some coverage last week on the Attorney General's race. I feel like as, you know, what Fred just said, I think it's incumbent on us as reporters. And we will try to cover. We have great reporters here, W. It's not just me covering politics. Absolutely. A wide-range reporters will help us cover the other down-ballot races. Doormaya JD Vance is right now covering the 13th congressional. So. You know, it's trying to bring attention to those races that are down ballot. You know, so that's what I'm going to try to do. And Fred, when is the next campaign reporting? When is that disclosure? So the period that we're in right now ends on October 20th. And so right around the 25th or 27th or so of October. That's probably a bit of time to get some money if you're a candidate. It is. It is. And it is right before the elections. So that'll tell. So you should see a whole lot of expenditures and hopefully a whole lot of donations on both sides. I just want to touch real quick. So when you look at lieutenant governor's race, you have a total contribution of around 2.3 for the two candidates who are there. And the race for Attorney General, and we're talking about combined between Democrats and Republicans, and the race for Attorney General, you have right around 2.2 million that's been donated across both candidates. And then when you look at the Secretary of State, you're talking about... A little bit more than 1.3, 1.4. Which is big money for them when you think about, in a sense. But it's the exact same electorate where we have, in the governor's race, you have Rick Jackson sitting on $4.3 million in Kees to was $7.72. And either one of those, it just shows the difference, right? And then Osloff is sitting on $42 million. All right. Atlanta-based campaign strategist and demographer Fred Hicks. Also, W.A.B. Politics reporter Raul Bali, who's not running for governor. Thank you both for coming and taking the time.

And closer look continues from WAB in Atlanta. As always, I'm Rose Scott. It was considered a lost film of the 1980s black independent cinema. If you really are what you say you are, help us protect herself or show us how to do it. I don't ever, ever. Want to hear the words, boy. Or colored used again. Understood! Yeah! Only one man can teach them to fight. That's time we meet. The town will be ours. People are now our hostages. We really don't know what the situation in the town is. We can't get close enough to find out. Filmed in Georgia, back in the late 80s, the movie River Bend tells a story of three black Vietnam War soldiers, who, after escaping a corrupt court martial, they arrive in a small Georgia town. River Bend, Georgia, and they are faced with a racist Sheriff's Department. There's lots to talk about this film, so I want to welcome in one of the stars of the movie, a very familiar name whose acting career spans five decades and includes nominations for an NWCP Image Award and Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress for Her portrayal of Shug Avery in the period drama film, The Color Purple, please welcome the incomparable Margaret Avery, and also Michael Dennis, founder, Real Black Renaissance, and the Restoration Executive Producer, of Riverbent. Thank you both for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having us. Good to see you again, Ms. Avery. And we want to note that Valerie JD Vance, the film's producer, was scheduled to join us. She's a bit under the weather, so we certainly sent her well wishes. And again, Ms. Averbant, I want to ask you, because you've gotten a lot of scripts throughout your career. When do you know a script is right for you? And how did you know River Bend would be one? How do I know it's right for me? Well, first, um... I guess the first thing is if I finish reading it, I know that it's a good script. Really? And then I look for what is the value in it. What would we want people to go away knowing or thinking? I come from an era when, you know, blacks, well, the black exploitation films. I mean, it was just all about me crying. I was always the boyfriend or the boyfriend's girlfriend, you know, they got out of jail and all of that stuff from Harlem. I can't remember some of them. But we really didn't have much of a message. But we didn't have any choice. And we were so happy just to be working. You understand? Because we all came at that time. Most of us came from theater. And we had never seen ourselves or had the opportunity to see ourselves on film. And then, of course, all of that, those same ideas and those scripts went to television, streets of San Francisco, Cojac. And it was always, we would always say, can we, can we show a relationship? I'm taking you back, y'all. I'm one of the veterans that are still around. Yes, ma'am. We had to, like, fight just to show that...

husband and wife loved each other like they did in the white films. You understand? So a good script to me was something that wasn't that same old tired, let's see the black people do this. And it was always about white people writing about black people. So when you got Riverbanned, this was different for you. Absolutely. So does that make sense to everyone? Yes, ma'am. When another ethnicity writes about your ethnicity, it's never really quite right. It's what they think or what they need to think. Does that hit home? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So Riverbend, when I read Riverbend, I thought, oh, this has a message. But what really got me involved was the fact that I knew that the producers were black. Now, that was something that never was around. We didn't have our Spike leaves, or at least at that time, if Spike hadn't made the impact that he has today. And I take you back. The only film that we had that we really were appreciative of, of showing black people with pride, was Sounder. Oh, yeah. Was Sisley Teisland? Was it Sounder? Yes, and Paul Winfield. So Color Purple came like 10 years after that. Which that's a whole other subject as to why we got the backlash on that. But back to Riverbend, I felt that this was a strong message, and I'm hoping that people will come and really see the film because I think that our Q&A session is going to be very exciting. Yeah, that's coming up this coming weekend, correct? This coming weekend of the Plaza Theater on Ponce de Leon. Six o'clock, y'all. Look at you. I know exactly where it is. I know exactly where it is. Let me bring in Michael Dennis because not only are folks going to be able to rediscover River Bend, but the restoration process because, listen, folks need to know how we made movies in the late 80s and now technology and we can get into AI, but we're not going to. There's a whole lot that goes into making movies now. What does it take to restore a movie, particularly born from that period? Oh, I guess first, thanks for having us on the show, by the way. Sure. But first, you need permission, right? We started out without permission. You know, I had posted the film on my YouTube channel, Real Black TV, R-E-E-L-B-L-A-C-K-T-V, and it led to this conversation with the director, Sam Furstenberg. And he explained to us, I was like, well, first off, the movie's about resistance and empowerment. And that's very rare in a black movie. Usually you see white counterparts helping us to liberate ourselves from these kind of, from these kind of situations. But this is all all black people helping one another, teaching one another how to stand up. So I was interested in how.

Did this movie even get made? And in the process, a print showed up on eBay, 35 millimeter print. So at first we had, and it was in South Africa. Oh, wow. Of all places. So the movie traveled. It just didn't make it here in the States. And, you know, so we had that transferred. You can get them scanned at any lab. And I don't know if people are old enough to remember Photomat, but when the film came back from the lab. And the scans were just incredibly scratched up and the sound was awful and there were 13 minutes of footage missing, you know. So eventually, we took that... that transfer, that restoration, we premiered in Denton, Texas at the Denton Black Film Festival. And that's where we met Valerie JD Vance. And, you know, she gave us the permissions that we needed to rescue the film, get the negative from MGM. And now what we're going to see this Saturday, August 15th at the plaza at 6 p.m. is the full 6K restoration of the film. And it looks better and sounds better than ever. Is that a tedious process? I mean, going from film and we talk about restoring, what does that entail? Oh, well, I mean, you take the negative of the film and you give it to an expert. In our case, it's real revival, Austin Squatari, and he scans it. And it is meticulous because you have to go frame by frame to adjust the color and clean up the dirt. So even though the film had been untouched for close to 40 years, there were still remnants of dust and dirt. and debris that need to be digitally removed scrub from the image and then we had a sound restoration we were very lucky we had the three-track original magnetic tracks to pull from so there was very little what we needed to do for the sound restoration it was pristine wow Ms. Avery, how excited are you to see it? Have you seen it restored? Are you going to wait and see it along with everybody else? I've seen it restored in Los Angeles. Yes, I was really surprised because I, you know, I can't thank Michael enough. I've forgotten all about the film, you know, 40 years ago. Really? Even without dementia, I didn't remember it. I mean, oh, God. And then what really, really impressed me is that we had such a small budget and it looks good. Yeah. And I was telling Michael, I think a lot of that is because of the cameraman we had. We had somebody who was very experienced. And he makes the film look wonderful. And we should know, I mean, you're in it, Steve James, who has passed on now. But, I mean, another incredible actor as well.

to be able to now share this with audiences. And listen, let's be very clear. The storyline is still relevant where the folks want to agree to it or not. Yep. We're not trying to find a startup a revolution, but we do want people to think about how it relates to today and how we can be a part of making change. When we started this conversation and I asked you about what you look for in a script, when you think about this current moment we're having in Hollywood or cinema with streaming platforms and are people going to the theaters? You still think there's enough out there to get people to come into the theaters and not just sit home and wait for it to come on a streaming platform. Well, see, people like you help us. We got to get the word out. And it is competitive because you've got Netflix and Disney, and it's so much easier for people to stay home and watch something that, well, okay, some people even wait for it to come to TV. And it doesn't have to take too long, you know. But, you know, if you even think about COVID and compare the attendance of church before COVID and now after, people got used to staying home and being very convenient just to listen to the service. So I'm sure the movie industry is the same. I have a listener says, Rose, please tell Ms. Avery, I first saw her in a Scott Joplin movie. Wow. The only thing I remember about that film that I regret now is that I probably had a 23-inch waist then compared to today. But I love that film because it was the first and only film that I've done of that kind of vintage look that I think. And the music, it introduced me to Scott Joplin. As we begin to wrap up, I just want to talk about the importance of restoring if we can. There's so many classics out there, particularly when we talk about black independent movies. And Michael, there's probably more riverbans out there that you still need to discover, right? Well, without question, yeah. Well, this was a three-year-year journey to restore this film. But it also launched the birth of Real Black Renaissance, which is my new... Blu-ray label, right? So Blu-ray is a little different than DVDs, and we're going to be selling them on Saturday, and Margaret will be signing. I'll be there to sign. I will, I promise. And people are like, people have been staring at me all weekend. What's a, what's a Blu-ray? It doesn't matter. Margaret's going to sign it. It's a collector's item. Just get it. Absolutely. So, but it's a way for people who aren't there, they can go to shop. RealBlack.com and buy a Blu-ray and watch it at home. And it's... It's there for prosperity. Yeah. Yeah, we have two more releases coming after this. The next one is called Reform School, and it's a similar situation. You know, Margaret and Steve, they didn't get the same types of roles in Hollywood that they did in independent films. And this is a movie from 1939.

with Louise Beavers. Wow. She was usually playing a maid in Hollywood movies. In this movie, she plays the matron of a reform school, and she gets to drive cars and wear furs and speak against the system. So we're really excited that Riverbed has opened this new door for us to discover even more films that are in need of care. Right. And we should know for folks who... May know the name, but Louise Beavers was in the first imitation of life, because there were two movies, right? Oh, yes. Yes, I remember. She was in the first one, so wow. So thank you for restoring this, because I think if you know your history, you can also kind of help your future. And you know, Michael is so humble. This costs money, so it's hard to get sponsors. So if anybody wants to contribute, I'm speaking for you, Michael. Hey, amen. Yeah, I know you're a church yesterday. I understand about asking for donations. Ms. Avery, are you, can you share with this? Are you working on anything else? Might we see you in something else coming up? There are some things in the fire, but you know, I'm from Hollywood, and I call it Holly Weird. You never know what. Can happen. It's like they say in the Forrest Gump movie, you never know what you're going to get. It's like a box of chocolate. Absolutely. It was great to see you again. Last time we talked was at Alice Walker's 75th birthday in Eatington, Georgia. You reminded me of that. Yeah, it's good to see you again. Miss Margaret Avery, of course, a very accomplished actor, and listen. Thank you so much for all the work that you've done over the years and paving the way for so many other people in this industry. I know they say it's a cliche about giving folks their flowers, but you deserve a whole garden. Well, thank you because I guess I've joined some wonderful people because all of those that were before me opened the door for me. Louise Beavers and so many others. Yes. Thank you so much. And Michael Dennis, thank you so much as well for joining us. And we'll have a link on our website to all the information where folks can check you out at the plaza. I live near there, so I'll be there as well. And now seniors are only $13 people. And you young people who haven't caught up with us, $16 for you. They got it. They got it. Thank you. That is it for this edition of Closer Look. Our producer, Elishan Hutton, and Daniel Razel. Our supervising producer is Tiffany Griffith. Our engineer is Soria Vanderwerth. A reminder of less than your thoughts on today's program or any other. You can always send me an email, community at wab.org. And if you missed any of the day's broadcast, you'll hear the rebroadcast tonight at 8. Check out our podcast and subscribe to wab.org slash closer look. Okay. And also, Ms. Avery want me to tell y'all, get your ticket now. This is WABE 90.1 FM in HD1, Atlanta. I'm Rose Scott.

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