First Coast Week in Review

Support for First Coast Connect is provided in part by Baptist Health and North Florida TPO. Opinions expressed on the First Coast Connect week in review are those of our panelists and do not reflect the views of WJCT News 899. Welcome to First Coast Connect. I'm Ann Schindler, and it's time for our First Coast we can review. Today, among our topics, we are discussing statehouse candidate Diana Jim Jordan Baldwin, who says she was physically attacked at a polling site by an opposition voter. Concerns grow now over the expanding role of the city council's in-house lawyer, Jason Teal. Two shootings follow 911 calls. raise fresh questions about police response to mental health crises. And a Florida professor is fired for teaching a best-selling author after the book caused one student mild discomfort. To talk about all that and more, I am joined by Florida Times Union Metro reporter David Bowerline. Good morning, David. Good morning, everybody. First Coast News reporter, Christina Burgess. Good morning, Christina. Good morning. Randy DeFore, corporate attorney and former Jacksonville City Council member. Hi, Randy. Hey, Ann. Thanks for having me. And Jim Pegget, our own former City Hall reporter at News Partner News for Jacks. Jim, good morning. It's just always great to be here. It's great to have you back, Jim, not in small part because of the giant bag of candy you just brought me. Thank you. You know my weakness. I want to start with some reports this week about the expanding role concerning the city's... the city council's in-house lawyer, Jason Teal. This is a story that was first reported by the Florida Trib reporter Molly Farrar there. This is an expanding role, but it's a sort of obscure one to begin with. David, I wonder if you could just sort of catch us up a little bit on Teal, you know, who he is now, who he used to be, and what role he's serving for the council. Right. So. Jacksonville Consolidated City Government has an Office of General Counsel that oversees all the legal affairs of the consolidated city government, including City Council. And there's always been tension between the City Council and the mayor's office about opinions and rulings and interpretations that come out of the Office of General Counsel. There's been this law in the books for many decades that the City Council could have its own legislative council to kind of give it legal advice, you know, explain the law. perhaps challenge, at least rhetorically, any kind of guidance you're getting from the office of general counsel. So they hired Jason Teal, who is himself a former general counsel, to fill that role of general counsel after he also was hired to be the city council secretary, kind of in charge of, you know, running the affairs of the city council staff. So that's where it is. You have a case where you have an Office of General Counsel appointed by the mayor and conferred by the city council who is over the entire consolidated government. You also have a city council has its own legal counsel. And the question then is, okay, what are the boundaries? What defines how much?

legal influence, how much that person can weigh in on legal affairs. And that's where the tension is that the Florida Trib report points out. And it's my understanding, but you would know better, that this is a little bit of a departure for city council to have somebody in the role of this kind of in-house attorney that is either, you know, weighing in quite as prominently as Jason Tealer, even having one to begin with. It's only been in the last, I think, year or two that they've done this. Obviously, they had that power to do that for many decades, decided to exercise it. There's been a lot of dissatisfaction from city council members, at least some city council members are to say to opinions and interpretations and advice they've been getting from the Office of General Counsel Michael Fackler. So they went ahead and exercised their ability to do this. But it is, yeah, it's a new development in terms of having somebody in that position for sure. Randy DeFore, I mean, you're an attorney. You also at one point were under consideration to be general counsel under this current mayor. And we know that there has been, obviously, tension between the city council leadership and the mayor over her choice of general counsel, Michael Fackler, who holds that role. They haven't always been happy with his decisions because it hasn't aligned with what they've wanted to do. They believe it is more aligned with what the mayor's priorities have been. So that's their sticking point with the general counsel. but hiring their own attorney, what problems has that presented, if any, for consolidated government and the way that it is kind of designed to function under this one attorney system? Well, it has an erosion of the OGC. That's what it does. I mean... As I understood it when I was on the city council, the purpose of having legislative council was only in a rare occasion. So we used it for the J.E.A. investigation, if you recall, we hired Steve Busey. But it wasn't supposed to be so that you have a sitting, you know, permanent legislative council. But there is this, there is a, you know, I have to say, when I was on council, I. You definitely feel like sometimes you're not being represented by the OGC. So I understand why they may want that. I just, I think, though, that it is a balancing act. I think that in this case, you know, we see instances where I think. there was overstepping. Well, we know, Jim, that all of the branches of city government kind of want their own council, right? We've seen it with everybody that's governed by the Office of General Counsel from the school board to the Jacksonville Aviation Authority. There's always been these kind of, you know, battles about, you know, can we really all be fairly represented by the same attorney when we might have different interests. And a lot of that has been with the school board. I recall that. But I am so glad you have Randy here today for this because Randy and looking at what they're criticizing Jason Teal about, in my opinion, just as a layman, looking at that, he's just telling them.

things that they need to know is that or do you know i mean uh things to keep them out of trouble Well, and if we can talk about that. Yeah, I mean, let's take one example because the couple of things that people have criticized this, Jason Teal for doing, one has been this oversight of public records because there was questions, you know, there was a subpoena from our state attorney to the then city council president, Kevin Carrico, over text messages that he had sent trying to appoint his boss as a favor to the J-EA board. And that sparked an investigation. the local prosecutor, our state attorney, subpoenaed records. And in the return of those records, there have been concerns by local media that they were incomplete, that they were unfairly redacted. All of those decisions and kind of the advice that was given to the city council president then, Kevin Carico, came from Jason Teal. And he has been sort of defending the response to public records, whether or not those things that were turned over, you know, constituted public records. And both former city general or two former city general councils, the mayor, former mayor John Delaney and Rick Mullaney, who's on this program sometimes, have said that that's. That was inappropriate, that that should not have been overseen by Jason Teal. That's right. Because his role is for legislative counsel, which means that he only can give advice as to things that the council itself will vote on. So that was something that was out of the realm of his authority. That should have been, those text messages should have been reviewed by OGC. And Jim, I mean, I don't want to step on your question there. So when you're asking her about that, what questions do you have about his role there? Well, I look at as an attorney and I'm going, you're just trying to protect the people you're representing or make sure that they're following the law. So the question is who's he representing? Well, that is a great question because there's some ethical questions here, you know, where we saw what, you know, his statements with the JTA when he spoke to the JTA, I mean, JAA board and said, you know, gave him advice that they might be personally liable if they hire an attorney or bring a lawsuit. And again, that's not his role. And so he, you know, as a lawyer, you have to disclose who you represent. And who was he representing there? That's where, and that's just where I just always look as an attorney. And you've separated that for me. I understand it now. But I always think an attorney is representing whom they say and can say, hey, step back. You know, you can't do this or you can do this. I think there's a bigger issue with Jason Thiel and his, you know, there's a little bit of a identity crisis he's having, you know. Jason was always outspoken. I do know. Yeah, I mean, I think that.

We saw it when he was OGC. I mean, he likes to be a player. That's where this is happening. You know, and so... Explain what you mean by that. He likes to be a part of the politics. And we saw it when he was OGC, if you recall, when he used, I thought, he politicized the office when he went after Leanna Cumber when she was running for mayor. As a city council member. Right. And... I think that's the issue, which I think it's a personality issue with Jason Teal in and of itself. I think that's what we're dealing with. You know, Christina Burgess, the question about the appropriateness is something that has been raised by a city council member, Matt Carlucci. You know, there was an instance recently where there were hearings of J.E.A. executives. There have been questions about leadership at J.E.A. And so they've been called before this special committee of the city council that was created by Kevin Caracow shortly after questions were raised about these text messages. And so there is sort of this, you know. web of connectivity. But this session where leaders of J.E.A. were being grilled was largely directed by or the questioning was being handled by Jason Teal. And at the time, Matt Carlucci said that he thought that the public hearing was disturbing and toxic. He said that, you know, he was concerned that they were overstepping their authority, the appropriateness, and that they were giving. kind of too much leeway to their council secretary to take on this role. Yeah, and I know in just keeping my eye on how those proceedings were going, I think we do see that there sometimes is a difference in response from people who are on council. Like I know in this example, we have Matt Carlucci who is saying maybe they're overstepping, but then I know we have some other council members that feel as though maybe Teal's questioning. was in line and wasn't overstepping. So then that also calls into question a little bit of like the confusion and a little bit of like where is the alignment in this process. Go ahead. I was acting in his role there as legislative council. Similar to the way, I think when Steve Busy was hired by the city council to the J.E.A. I think he was asking questions of people. He was doing depositions, that kind of thing. Obviously, the whole thing on the J.E.A was just kind of this. The whole thing was structured almost like a congressional hearing with people at witnesses being sworn in. This most recent J.E.A thing or the earlier? Yeah, the most recent J.E.A. thing with the investigation. And it was contentious, sort of like those congressional hearings. Yeah. And there was like, you know, there was pushback. You know, you can't ask that question. Yes, I can. You know, let's have the city council present. You know, it was just a different way of doing things. And Jason Till's role in that was almost to be like sort of the lead attorney in a congressional investigation asking questions. I think, though, but the problem I have with that is that his sign in front of him at the time said that he was, I believe, the secretary. So again, from a legal standpoint.

He did not disclose that he was there as a lawyer and who he represented. You know, one thing that's interesting that the Trib story pointed out was they interviewed Teal for their story. And he basically said, you know, there is some risk that somebody in this role could push it too far. You're lucky that I'm in this role. You know, I know the Office of General Counsel. I know how consolidated government works and is supposed to work. And so he basically said, you know, I'm actually the best person to be in this role. because I understand the boundaries. But, Jim, I want to ask you, I mean, we mentioned that two former general counsels, John Delaney and Rick Mullaney, both raise some questions. How significant is their interpretation of what Jason Teal is doing? I mean, Delaney basically said, you know, the counsel attorney is not correct. He's not the correct lawyer to review the Carico texts, for instance. So they have real questions. Well, I know. Just like many people still have questions on that. And I respect their opinions greatly, like particularly Rick Mullaney. I've dealt with him quite a bit on this or in talking on issues like this. They know what they're talking about. And, you know, and I just sit back and look at like, oh, like I said earlier, he's an attorney. He should know what he's doing. And that's why I was so glad Randy was here to talk about, you know, their roles. They do have boundaries that they have to keep. And, you know, I just always think an attorney could do whatever they want as long as it's within. like the city council boundaries, but that's where I'm surprised by all of this. And that's just me as a layperson. And as a lay person, Randy, what, I mean, why should ordinary people who are perhaps paying marginal attention to the city council at best care about this issue? Well, I do think it's an erosion of the OGC. I think that. And why should they care about that, I guess? Because it goes to the very heart of our consolidated government. So if we, you know, I think it's a real issue, actually. Because now we see that the school board also now has their own attorney. I think the JAA and the J-E-A, I think they both want their own attorneys. What could that mean for consolidated government? Well, it means... I think it's just an erosion of that. I think people will start questioning, do we really need a consolidated government? I mean, do we all benefit from a consolidated government? Even when I was on city council, I'll be honest with you. There were constituents of mine that said, why we'd be better off if we as a district had our own government again, which they used to in the 1960s, you know. What would that look like? I mean, what would that? How would that play out? Well, you would have to literally break, I mean, you would have to remove, I mean, you'd have to break up the charter. And the thought, the legislature would have to do that. Yeah. I think too, Han, I mean, the idea of Consoday government, you have a lot of people under the same tent. You're going to have disagreements. You're going to have turf battles. You're going to have different interpretations. You need some one entity that.

whose opinion is binding on everybody. And as long as that remains the case, and I think you can have some of the jostling back and forth about it, as long as it's understood that when the Office of General Counsel issues a binding legal opinion, that's the law of the land. Now people want to say, well, now we're going to challenge it, then that becomes a much more difficult situation to keep consolidated government together. And it's also a matter of one voice. I mean, at the Aviation Authority Board meeting. Michael Fackler, the office general counsel was there telling the board, here's, you know, here's the law, here's what it says, here's my opinion. And then you have Jason Teal saying, I'm not here is my... as a role of city council, but everybody knows who he is, right? And also you could face all these penalties if you are financial hits. They could be criminally prosecuted. Right. If the Michael Fackler, the general counsel wants to tell him that, he can tell them that, but then to have somebody else then coming in, also adding that to it, you just have, it creates, I think, some confusion in terms of who you should listen to. Right. And Michael Fackler did not say that. Right, exactly. So you have two voices, two legal voices in the same room. I think you have a personality issue here. Certainly some confusion. It is going to be an issue that we're going to continue to follow. I know people are concerned about the future of consolidated government, and this is going to be an essential question. So if you're just joining us, we are talking to David Bowerline, Christina Burgess, Randy DeFour, and Jim Piggott. If you'd like to join our conversation, we'd love to hear from you as well. You can reach us on air at 904-549-2937, or you can email First Coast Connect at wjCT.org. I do want to move on to some political coverage. We've got just a few days left before. for the primary on Tuesday. Christina, this is a story that you've been covering. State House candidate Diana Jim Jordan Baldwin. She reported being physically attacked at a polling site earlier this week. Tell us what happened. Yeah. And so as soon as we kind of heard the news of what had allegedly happened, we went out to the polling location immediately and we spoke with... Diana Jim Jordan Baldwin went about the incident. So I had her kind of walk me through everything that she said happened. So she told me that her and her husband were out at this playing location right near World Golf Village, setting up, getting ready to do some campaigning kind of off the side of the location. And at this point, she says a gentleman was trying to park his car. And they ended up initially kind of getting in like a verbal altercation where he called her. some names that was not her name and then from there it sort of escalated to a point of where then he begins to tell her you know your husband who her late husband um who died in the line of duty he served in the u.s army she he was telling her these are lies you're lying your campaigns lie just these sort of things and then from there they kind of a verbal confrontation

turned into a physical one where she says that this gentleman who the St. John's County Sheriff's Office has now identified as Charles Hunt punched her in the face. Her current husband at the time gets in between them, tries to break up and de-escalate this fight. He then also hits her husband. They're on the ground fighting. Bystanders have to break it up. And then eventually police come on scene. They end up arresting this Charles Hunt. After some more digging, we do find out that Charles Hunt is someone in the St. John's County community. That is known. He speaks at commissioner's meetings. A lot of people do know him. And St. John's County Sheriff's Office, they do charge him with two counts of simple battery. We also were able to obtain the police report where we were able to see that they did interview multiple witnesses whose stories also line up. with what the statehouse candidate was saying as well. But yeah, so we were able to go out there and speak with her. She was very shaken up over the whole ordeal. But the big thing that stood out with this story was that. She is running for District 18. She's a Republican candidate running against Kim Kendall, who is currently in the seat. And so the big thing when the St. John's County GOP came out and made a statement. Kim Kendall released a statement as well. They condemned the violence and political intimidation and all of that. And they were saying that it's not good for people in the same party to be fighting because I think this gentleman as well also. was out there just campaigning and endorsing other Republican candidates. And that day prior, she says that she also saw him out there. And it was verbal the day prior, but it never got physical until the next day. Yeah, it's funny. You know, she was on this program this week, Randy. And when she was leaving, she was, or excuse me, on Friday last week. And she was saying, you know, she was going to the polls. She was going to kind of stake out her place. Very often they erect these tents to be present during early voting so that they can pass out literature. They've got to be a certain distance away. But it can get. a little dicey out there. You have people from competing campaigns in shoulder to shoulder very often trying to find the spot that they can stake out and maintain. But. St. John's County in particular has had some really divisive Republican politics of late. You know, there's this whole voter guide scandal, this, you know, who's really the Republican Party. There's the, you know, both a couple of, you know, groups claiming that name, but they're, you know, who's official. So it has gotten a little bit extra contentious there. Well, politics can do that. I mean, we know that first hand, or at least I do, firsthand. I mean, people get, you know, they get committed to their candidate and it's emotional. So, you know, it's never appropriate to get physical ever.

Yeah. David Bauerline, you know, the sheet also raised concerns about signs being stolen. And I think that while unfortunate, that is the kind of thing that we do hear about just about every election. It's amazingly kind of how small these elections can get in terms of, you know, tactics. Yeah. Yeah, for decades. I mean, it's long as I've been a reporter people as dealing each other's signs. It's just a very weird campaign deal. Yeah, you know, but there should be a safe pace, right? I mean, people should be able to go to the polls, not have to worry about any kind of violence. You know, we said this, the cycle where the Neptune Beach polling place a couple of years ago where there was some students, you know, one of them at a machete and. and, you know, is waving it. And just people should really be able to feel like they can go to a polling place. And they're not going to have any kind of concern that people are going to be on edge, that people are going to take out their political differences in that space. And that's what's disturbing about this, too. You know, if I was there going to vote and I saw that in the parking lot, it would be kind of troubling to me, basically. And you really want to feel like you can go to a place where you're not going to have to worry about that at all. It was good to see everybody condemn it. I wasn't clear if the person Hunt was a supporter of Kendall, is that, or do we know that? But anyway, everybody did oppose it, which was good. And he has, you know, said that he was acting in self-defense, so we should be clear that he's not saying that he... He said he was hit. Her husband hit him first or choked or something to that nature. That was his statement. But the witnesses have all said, no way. And that's why the St. John's County Sheriff's Office arrested him. Let's listen to a little bit of what the candidate had to say about this to you, Christina. And he went around my husband and he punched me in this side of my face. We definitely have to protect ourselves. Right? We have to be careful about our surroundings. Although I was attacked here, please don't let intimidation stop you from coming to vote. Jim, I want to ask you about that because, you know, this is, we're, you know, full on into looking at November. We've already started to see at the gubernatorial level, some ads. between the frontrunner for the Republicans, Byron Donalds, the frontrunner for the Democrats, David Jolly. I was surprised to already see those ads. Like last Saturday, I noticed that they hit. And it was basically Brian Donald's going after Jolly, saying that he supports LGBTQ Plus and the trans issue in all of that. And... It's getting ugly, and the primary is not even over. I mean, the frontrunners are going to be there. It seems obvious, but I hate to say that, but before the votes are counted. But this is going to be an ugly campaign coming up. The governor's race, and Randy, you were talking a lot about what we saw. What do you think is going to be happening? I think it's going to, I think we're seeing this in politics in general. I think it's just going to get ugly.

You know, I was laughing about the signs. Remember the candidate that had the beacon put in the signs? I actually called someone still in my signs when I ran. Yeah. I mean, it is, but I think we're, we're seeing on a national level. I mean, booby traps. Oh, I know. They've been, you know, videos out there, yeah. But, um. I think we're seeing it on national level, and it's coming down even to, you know, the state level. Yep. And it's, it's going to get brutal. Well, this is a state race, the gubernatorial race, David, that definitely has a national component since Byron Donalds's has been endorsed by the president. But it is maybe a little surprising that we've kind of gone right to the culture wars. I mean, there are a lot of issues that people really are talking about. And I think some people have definitely been campaigning on, like data centers, like affordability, the property tax cut that stands before voters. But. clearly we're going to be hearing about, you know, transgender rights. We're going to be hearing about LGBT. We're going to be hearing about, you know, book bans. I mean, I feel like this is going to be in Florida particularly. It was part of the Trump campaign's strategy a couple of years ago. And it helped them say in Pennsylvania to win Pennsylvania. So it'll be out there. Although. You know, the polls don't really show that's a big concern. I think the main concern people do have are some of those economics, and that's always what's going to determine the election as some of those economic issues. But I agree with Jim. It's strange to see that already happening or trying to, quote, define them in that way, but that's already underway. But, you know, the whole woke thing, you know, sort of feels like it's starting to run its course. You know, the courts have weighed in and struck down a lot of these laws. You know, you can go too far in anything. And, you know, at some point, what was a working strategy a couple of years ago may no longer be a big working strategy now in terms of actually causing people to vote one way or the other. When people are concerned about gas prices, they're concerned about economy, the economy is slowing down. nationally, Florida has seen a slowdown as well. I mean, I think that's going to be a bigger issue for people. We've got a call from Chip in Avondale. Good morning. Chip, go ahead. Hey, good morning. I was wondering back to the question about the general counsel. Aren't a lot of the council members actually attorneys in their own right. So why do they need to hire somebody?

Hey, Chip, this is Randy. I don't think there are this go around. When I was on council, we did. We had several lawyers on the council, but now I think we just got maybe Roy Diamond. I think he may be the only one. I think that's right. That's the only attorney on there right now. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing is, you know, you can put. nine people in a room and their Supreme Court justices and they disagree five four you know on the law on the law and quite frankly all of us around this table we can look at the state at the city ordinance code and have our own interpretation so they want somebody who's got experience to be able to present a case for why they you know to help them fill in the legal aspects. Do the research as well. Do the research and to be able to challenge the Office of General Counsel when they disagree with them or her. Just before we move on to another topic, I do want to note the early voting turnout. So as of last night, the state attorney's office, Christina's reporting. 47,400 votes cast. That turnout percentage currently is at 7.34%. So not great, but there are a few days left. And we're seeing... And I don't know that it's surprising to anybody in terms of the early voting percentages, but there has been a lot of talk on social about the balance of turnout because right now Democrats lead with about 23,000 of those votes, 19,000 for a Republican. And so there have been some questions, the party raising concerns, you know, why are we seeing this disparity? And I think that that's just Duval County. Yes. I think you really got to look at St. John's and the surrounding counties as well. Because I think we expect a Duval to be Democratic in a way. Yeah. And St. John's, I'm sure. I haven't looked at their numbers. Well, early voting is typically Democrats. Right. Yeah. Republicans vote on Election Day. Yeah, and have been encouraged to do so. by none other than the president. So we should note that early voting in Duval ends Sunday. It ends Saturday in St. John's Klan, Nassau counties, and the deadline to return vote by mail ballots is Election Day, which is August 18th at 7 p.m. I do want to move on now to a couple of shootings that happened involving police, basically responding to 911 calls or crisis calls in both cases ended in police shootings. It's the kind of thing that raises fresh questions for some people, Christina, about how we're responding to apparent mental health crises. They're very different circumstances. One was a 16-year-old who very tragically ended up shooting himself. And the last we heard, his condition was very serious, life-threatening. But I don't know the eventuality of that. That happened on Monday morning. And then on Tuesday, a 22-year-old woman who...

was police say carrying a knife, had been involved in some sort of domestic incident, shot and killed. So, you know, Christina, this sheriff has said we're, you know, responding, and certainly in the case of the... teenager, they had the involvement of crisis counselors. They had behavioral health units there to try to help out, but it still ended with this fatality. Yeah, and I know in this particular case, there were lots of tactics that were also tried to deploy before it got to that point. I know tasers, they tried to even shoot at the teen at one point, pepperball swat, even mentioned the behavioral response unit. And this, the mental health has come up a lot when it comes to. Anytime there are shootings or when I cover JSO town halls that recently happened. The sheriff was asked that. We asked the sheriff that question as well. And his response and as well as our crime and safety expert's response was, yes, they do have this unit. And yes, they are trying to give these people these resources. But Sheriff Waters is like we cannot put a civilian who was maybe a trained professional in. a situation that can be very dangerous for them if they are a civilian. So he's like, we're trying to do as best we can. But on the other side, I know we hear a lot from the community, even in our comments, when I do my stories, of people being like, I don't want to call JSO. I'm scared to call police. What if this happens to my family? I even asked my crime and safety expert that I said, if people feel like they can't call JSO, what can they do? And to his point, he was like, you know, you have to call the police. You have to call them to see if they can get you those resources still. So we're seeing like this kind of been back and forth and tug and pull moment of where people are like, we still want more. And sheriff's office is like, we're trying to give you what we can. So that's, I know what we've been seeing, especially with this 16 year old and then I know with the 22 year old, it being a domestic situation that had taken place. And a lot of people to this point again, they're saying because of how she looked or her size, they were like maybe JSO didn't have to shoot. Maybe they could have tried to reason with her. But I know another thing that police, their response to this is always. if there is a potential threat, they still have to do what they're trained to do. So it's where we're seeing the conversations out there. I mean, they're difficult situations, Randy. I know that in the case of that 22-year-old, you know, they said that she'd refused to drop the knife. And her mom was interviewed saying that, you know, she believed her daughter was a domestic violence victim. I mean, you know, you don't want to speak ill of the dead, certainly. But we do know that she had been arrested in a felony. It was later dropped by prosecutors, but of a felony battery she'd been accused of in a domestic violence situation. And so, you know, we never really know, and certainly officers don't ever know when they're walking into these situations, what they're going to encounter. It all boils down to training. You know, what happened here? And I'm sorry, was she tased before they shot her? No, the 22-year-old. No, that to me is amiss. I mean, and she was small in stature, is my understanding, very small. I just, how do you kill somebody with a small woman with a knife? I just think. And she was shot and down with a knife, and then they shot her again because she did not drop the knife. Right. But. Well, I think they said that she kind of was maybe getting up towards them with the knife. But she was, I don't know. Sure. I think on this one, has there been body cam?

video of that. I don't think that's been honest. And it started out with, was it just, this is the 22 year old we're talking about, with just one officer or two responding. And then another one came up later, is my understanding. So I just think we need to hear a lot more of what happened right at the initial onset. People think of a small woman or a small person, anyone, coming out with a knife, well, A gun would take care of that or a taser would take care of that, whatever. That surprised me that they felt the need to have to shoot her. Well, I mean, I think it is a reminder, David, that, you know, whatever is happening with police, you know, they are not. mental health professionals, there really is this shortage of resources for people who are experiencing a family crisis. You know, certainly in this case, police said it was the right thing to do, even in the case of the 16-year-old to call police. So he's armed. Parents said he'd left a suicide note. He had been expelled from school for threats of violence. And so, you know, you don't know if that person is merely suicidal or perhaps a threat. Right, for sure. I mean, I think you should call the police in those cases. And certainly in the case of the 22-year-old woman with the knife, there were a lot of other people in the house. So, yes, that is a case where police should be called in. And you have cases where police will talk somebody down from jumping off a bridge and, you know, and they are experienced in those situations, I think. Here you have people with weapons. I think that adds another layer to it, both for the safety of the officers and the other people are in that area as well. And then it becomes a question. It's just like what Randy said. Then there's a question of justifiable force. You know, is there, how quickly does the officer go to use a lethal force as opposed to something like a taser, which is not a lethal force? How, you know. holding a knife, stepping towards her, you know, how far apart were they, you know, with, you know, the body cam could tell what the, if it was like a rush, you know, all those kind of things, which I assume the state attorney's investigation is going to look in very closely in terms of just the justification of lethal force, the highest force that an officer can use. Yeah, we should say we did reach out to the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, you know, letting them know we're going to be discussing this today and inviting some feedback. They just referred us to their previously released statements on Facebook. But we're going to have to leave it there today. We are grateful to have you all here today. Jim Piggott, Randy DeFour, David Bauerline, Christina Burgess. Thank you all so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Sam. All right. Up next. A first coast staging of a Broadway musical. It explores grief and mental illness. We sat down yesterday with some of the performers of Next Normal. It's opening at the Limelight Theater. Tonight, let's take a listen.

Welcome back. A stage production that tackles mental illness, grief, and drug addiction may not seem a likely candidate for a rock musical. But the Tony and Pulitzer Prize winning Next to Normal proves there is plenty of creative space on stage to accommodate this ambitious subject. Here to tell us about an upcoming production at the Limelight Theater is this show's producer Jimmy Alexander, who also plays the role of Dan Goldman. Jimmy, welcome back to the program. Hi, thank you so much. We're also joined by Ella Escamilla, the actress playing Natalie. Thanks for being here. I thank you for having me. And we should note this is a discussion as the show is that may touch on. issues of mental health and suicide. Jimmy, tell us a little bit about this show. It's called Next to Normal. What does the title mean? Next to Normal is essentially just the idea that the only normal people you know are the ones that you don't know very well. You know, and we... We try to live up to some expectation or some standard about how life should be. And we never really get there. And this show's basically about saying, that's okay. You know what I mean? Like we can be who we are. We can be honest. We can talk about our struggles. And we can be who we really are. And that's legitimately okay. There is no normal, you know? I understand this production has lived close to your heart since you saw it. many years ago. What struck you about it when you saw it? What made you want to tackle it here on the first coast? I just had one of those experiences, you know, that sometimes only art can, and it just, it hit me in a way that, you know, musical theater, it's fun, and it's dancing and good music and, you know, all that good stuff that people think. And this really, like... open something up in me. And I just, I never forgot. I never forgot the way that it may, you know, that's saying when it doesn't matter what you say, it's how you make people feel and it made me feel a certain way. And I know it just had such a profound impact on me that I just really wanted to share that with people in the local community because it's not a show that's done very much. And so, you know, I just took a risk and went for it. Yeah, and it is an ambitious undertaking, Ella. This is, a play with some very serious themes. Yeah. But it's a rock musical. And I think it's, you know, of a vein with some other productions that have been, you know, more popular on Broadway in recent years, whether it's something like Dear Evan Hanson or I think this one has been compared to rent. But in terms of taking difficult themes and still presenting them in a very engaging, lively musical way. Yeah, I think Next to Normal does something really special. Also, kind of like rent, where there's so much emotion and there's so much meaning behind lyrics and parts of the show that rock music has always kind of been...

a style of music that has a lot of meaning like it it just it catches your attention and I feel like next to normal is the perfect candidate to be a rock musical because there are parts of the show where you do feel more intensely and the music really matches that there are also moments of the show where it's not just, you know, go, go, go. There's, like, calmer moments and more intimate moments, and that really works. And tell us a little bit about your character in this production. We mentioned that you play Natalie. Tell us about Natalie. So, the show is focused around Diana and Dan, the mom and the father. Natalie, my character, is their daughter. And it kind of, her storyline is kind of how... you know, her mother's mental health affects her and how she's worried that she is going to turn out like her mother, possibly, or how, because she's so affected by her family, how maybe she is subconsciously affecting, like, the other people around her, like her boyfriend, Henry. You know, she doesn't want to rub off, like, any negativity that she's gained from, like, her household onto him. So she's just really self-conscious. This is a lot to produce. Tell us what it was like just mounting this production, particularly the musical component, because that adds just a whole other layer of complexity. Yeah, I started out not knowing what I was getting myself into, honestly. And it's a labor or love, and it's all going to be worth it. But, I mean, there were times that I'm like, man, what did I do? I just, I had no idea. From the very beginning. I just, you know, there's a lot of theaters now that are doing tracks. And I understand COVID and the cost and like, theater is expensive to produce. And I just, I could not imagine doing this show without a live orchestra. And so, you know, we, we. did that and we made that happen. And just having, being able to tell the story with the music is so vitally important that I just really wanted to make sure that we had that element. Yeah, I mean, gives it a feeling of authenticity. You really can't replicate with a track. So you have also learned and I think formed a kind of relationship with the actor who originated the role that you play. the character, Dan Goldman. That's right. He's actually going to be coming to your performance. He's coming. We can't believe it. He's coming on Sunday. Just such a sweet guy. And I don't know why he just offered to do a Zoom with the cast initially. And we spent an hour with him and just really kind of hit it off. And so I was just like, I'm just going to invite him and see if he says yes. And he said yes. And so for us to be able to bounce ideas off him and him tell us the story of how this show started and the effect that it's had on the people, you know, through Broadway and they went down to Argentina and did it recently. It's just been so valuable and special. Well, the show is called Next to Normal. It has a show tonight, but the official opening is Friday, August 14th, and it runs...

through August 30th at the Limelight Theater in St. Augustine. We've got a link on our website where you can get tickets. Jimmy Alexander, Ella Escamilla. Thank you so much. Appreciate you being here today. Thank you for having us. All right. We'll be right back. Football season, unbelievably, is almost here in the Jacksonville Jaguars. We'll be back in action tomorrow against the New Orleans Saints. Here to catch us up on the offseason changes and give us a preview of the team's first preseason game. We are happy to welcome our new Jaguars season correspondent, First Coast News, sports reporter and anchor Rachel Phillips. Good morning, Rachel. Morning. Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. It's great to have you. You know, for the past couple of seasons we've worked with... Former News for Jack sports reporter, Alessandra Pombriyan, who you know well. And she has left the business. But we are so glad that you're here to help us out. And let's just start off with a little introduction. I mean, some people may notice your accent. You're clearly not from Jacksonville. Tell us a little bit different. Yeah, a little bit. Not quite Southern. So where did you come from? And what brought you here? Yeah, so I'm originally from Brisbane, Australia. So just a little bit north of Sydney. Most people know Sydney and don't know Brisbane. And then I came over to get my master's degree in sports journalism at Arizona State. And... When I was during the degree, I was kind of like, you know what? I might like to stay here for a little bit longer. I really didn't think I would be here for this long. I just had my seven-year anniversary in America. And I was like, whoa, that's crazy. That's a quarter of my life. But, yeah, we lived in El Paso for three years after ASU and then Memphis for a year and now here in Jacksonville. So it's been a bit of a journey. Somehow stayed along the southern states of America the whole time. But it's been great. Well, so you're covering the Jaguars. You've been here now just a little under a year at First Coast News. Tell us a little bit about what you're looking at in the team as we go forward. I know that you have been closely following, you know, the camps and the training leading up to this first preseason game. Yeah, of course. Well, I mean, it's an exciting season for the Jaguars, right? You see them go last year and have that complete turnaround with Liam Cohen come in. And now it's like, okay, we had success last year, but we don't want just that. We want to keep building off that and go further this year. And I think we're seeing that so far in training camp. There's a lot of intensity. a lot of heated passion and rivalry in battles. And the interesting thing with this Jaguars group is there isn't that many position battles in camp. We really only see two position battles at running back and then at linebacker. Otherwise, most of those starting spots are really secure. So when we look at the preseason game with the Saints coming up tomorrow, it's an interesting one. No starters are playing. They're resting all those guys. They don't want to kind of put anyone out there to potentially get injured. So it's a chance for all the young guys coming through, the undrafted free agents, the rookies coming through to really have their shot. saying, hey, I deserve a spot on that 53-man roster because pretty soon we're going to see cuts being made to the roster. So this is their moment to go out there and say, you deserve, or I deserve a spot. Give me a spot on the team. Tell us about those competitive positions. You know, who's in the running and who you're favoring if you do have a favorite. Yeah, so at running back, you've got Baychell Tutin or Chris Rodriguez Jr. Both of those guys will definitely be on the 53-man roster. It's really just who runs out.

first with the team when they play the Browns in that first game of the season. Bachel Tutin's going into a second year. Or the Saints, is it? Oh, sorry, the Saints. So, yeah, so you've got the Saints in the preseason. And then when the Browns are the game, the game that really matters. Yeah, the preseason were like, eh, you know, be good if they win. It doesn't really matter that much. But yeah, for the Brown's game, it would be the Tutton or Chris Rodriguez Jr. Tudon's in his second year right now in the league. The Jags drafted him last year. And he had a really nice showing behind Travis A. N. Jr., who is now at the Saints, which is a... ironic when it all comes full circle. And then Chris Rodriguez Jr. came in from Washington. They got him in the offseason. He used to play with Liam Cohen, the head coach at Kentucky. So they have a bit of a relationship and a bond. And they're both going to be really pivotal for the Jags this season. Both of them are going to have an impact. It's really a running back by committee approach this season for those guys. But it'll be interesting to see who kind of gets the start. They're both going to have a lot of plays. But it'll be interesting to see who kind of goes up on top. And then at lineback, you've got Branson Combs or Ventrell Miller. Both of them are having really nice off seasons. Branson Combs was a undrafted free agent came in and has really kind of made his mark. Like I was talking about with this preseason game, he did that last year and said, hey, like I'm a guy. And he kind of worked his way on, was on the practice squad, then got to play in 10 games last season. And now he's got a chance at the starting spot. So it's cool to see those kind of younger guys come through. see who the Jagu was, it really bedded on and it's paying off. How is their calendar? Like, how strenuous is it? How is it laid out in terms of their chances of success or building, you know, a ramp to beyond the AFC? Yeah, I mean, the Browns, first game of the season, should be easy. should be in the operative word, you really just never know, right? That's why you play a game. From there on, it does get kind of tough for them, and that first stretch of the games is really tough. And then, obviously, we know with the stadium renovations going on, a lot of games aren't being played here at Everbank Stadium this year. So you've got two games over in London, which one game over in London is already a bit of a mission for a team and a franchise to kind of get sorted, and then the Jags are going back to back, and they're both really hard games. You've got the Eagles. NFC, you know, champions and just a couple of years ago, Super Bowl champions too. And then you've got... the Houston Texans who obviously in the division with the Jags. And a big rivalry. Big rivalry. Those games mean a lot as you kind of go throughout the season because you've got to go through each other to win the AFC South and then obviously get a home playoff game and all the rest of it that follows. So that game is a massive game. And I think a lot of Jags fans are disappointed. They don't get to watch that game at home and really get behind the Jags. But either way, it's an important game. We'll kind of see how that one plays out on the road in London. And they're doubling up those London games back to back. So maybe have a little more. time to acclimate adjust from the jet lag and play stronger I would guess right and they struggled last year when they were over there playing the Rams it was probably their worst game of the season um

Who knows if it has anything to do with traveling over, right? They've been doing it for years, the Jaguars. It's not like something new for them, but it's always challenging for a team. And, you know, you say that there's going to be, obviously, construction going on. We did hear that there's going to be some concession price drops, which I think will be welcome to a lot of people. They're introducing some lower prices for some of the very expensive foods there. So I'm sure that that's something that... at least the fans will be paying attention to yeah i went to um when i got into town last year the night before the charges game and so my dad and i were like oh let's let's go to the game let's see what's all about and I think we paid more for food than we did for our tickets. So it's good to see it because it means more enjoyable experience for the fans out there. Well, Rachel Phillips, it's great having you aboard. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me. All right. And thank you for listening. Please join us Monday when we meet the filmmaker behind a new production of the iconic piece of historic Florida fiction, A Land Remembered. I'm Ann Schindler. You've been listening to First Coast Connect on WJCT News 899.

Support for First Coast Connect is provided by Baptist Health and the North Florida TPO.