Why the 'Flock Blocker' opposes these cameras, and an iconic game room pulls the plug

This is Florida Matters Live and Local. We're broadcasting from the Dr. Zerain Rubis and Neil Frankel Studio at WSF in Tampa. I'm Matthew Petty. Well, by now you've probably heard of or even seen a few flock cameras here and there. Little black cameras that sit on top of a pole with a solar panel attached to it. Kind of inconspicuous, but they're all over the Tampa Bay area, all over Florida, in fact, hundreds of them, and parking lots, neighborhoods on sides of the interstates. Now, the company and police departments, flock camera company, I should say, and police departments say it's simply to catch people committing crimes, but concerns are growing. about how the cameras and the information they capture will be used. We're joining us to talk more about these cameras as Jean-Luc Adrian. He's an attorney with Brancato law firm. Now, they defend people in DUI cases, and Adrian says they've seen an increase in cases since the introduction of flock cameras. Jean-Luc, thank you so much for being with us. It's a pleasure to be here. We're also joined by Carl Gunn, aka the flock blocker. He's been spending a few Saturdays protesting flock cameras by covering them up. Carl, thank you for stopping by. Thank you for having me. Also joined by Matthew Guariglia. He is a senior policy analyst at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Matthew, thank you as well for being with us. Good afternoon. And we want to hear from you. How do you feel about flock cameras? Do you think they can really help police crack down on crime, or is this only pushing us further? into a surveillance state want to hear your thoughts give us a call 81375562 that's 813 7556562 you can also email us we're at florida matters at wsf.org we can drop a note on the youtube channel if you're watching along there we just want to read a little bit from a statement from flock we invited them on the show they weren't able to accommodate our request to be on the show but they did send us this In part, it reads, we understand there are questions about privacy and data and believe privacy and public safety can coexist. Flock strongly supports legislation establishing guard rails concerning or governing license plate reader LPR use. LPR framework should strike a balance preserving law enforcement's ability to utilize a critical tool that has proven to enhance public safety in communities across. the country and they also go on to say that in 2025 flock technology supported more than one million criminal investigations and public safety incidents assisted in an estimated 20 percent of solved cases in jurisdictions where it was deployed and helped locate more than 10,000 missing people all right jean luke um your understanding of what flock cameras are what they're used for Sure. So flock cameras are automated license plate readers. What that means is that they are these cameras that take pictures of moving vehicles, and it goes into a database, and those are searchables. So what's interesting about those automated license plate readers is that, one, they are automated. They continuously run. And two, is that they develop a fingerprint of a car, for example, make, color.

license plate, for example, so if there's a dent in the car or a sports bar on top. Okay. And you've, I mean, you do DUI cases, other things as well, but you've noticed that you're seeing more of these cases since the introduction of lock cameras. What's the kind of connection between that, do you think? Absolutely. We do the wide range, a wide range of criminal defense cases from DUI to all the way up to murder homicide. So what's interesting is that you would think from my experience is that the flock evidence is much less prevalent in traffic cases than in serious cases. Because for the traffic case, you have the officer who's there who saw the crash or pulled the person over. But for these other cases, there's a lot of data that shows where people have been because they do have to prove that somebody was in the area in the vicinity to have committed a crime. Matthew, let me bring you into this conversation. The United States has a history of surveillance, right? And tools like flock cameras are not necessarily new, but there is something a little different about them. Just tell us what it is that makes flock cameras, you know, a step beyond the surveillance tools that law enforcement and other agencies have used in the past. Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing to know about these tools is that flock cameras, like a lot of other contemporary surveillance equipment, they are interconnected. So a generation ago, you might have walked past a bank and you might have been on the security camera of that one bank. But once you pass that camera, that would be it. So if police wanted to collect footage of you, they'd have to go to that store and then the store after that to get their footage in the store after that. But the problem is that these cameras are all interconnected. So by driving past 10 cameras, cameras, 15 cameras on your route to work, they could essentially collect all that data in a centralized way and track you as you go about your day. And from a law enforcement perspective, they might look at that and say, well, this is amazing. This actually saves us some legwork, but there are definitely some kind of concerns from people who are worried about privacy. Is that right? Yes, I mean, because you have to understand that the legal system is set up in a way where you need individualized suspicion. Police suspect you of doing a crime. They usually have to go out and get a warrant signed by a judge saying that there is evidence that you've committed a crime, and then they can collect information about you. These tools have kind of inverted the entire system so that they're collecting information on us all of the time, and then once they have all that data, then they're deciding who's suspicious. Let me bring you into this conversation, Carl. You've been spending Saturday or two blocking flock cameras. I believe our YouTube is actually down at the moment, but just kind of describe what you're doing and how you're doing it, because you've got your flock blocker in the studio now, and it is a long pole with a sign on the end of it. Tell us more. It's a very simple pole. It's just out of my pool, and I needed something long. And all I had was a broomstick. So I stuck the broomstick on the end of my pole and put a sign on it and went out to a camera that I had seen laying on the ground. Somebody had cut it down. And I didn't know what it was. Later, somebody put up another one. So I said, okay, what is it? So I studied it and it says, I don't like this.

Yeah, so tell me more about that. What is it about flock cameras that makes you think I've got to do something about this? I understood that they follow me. You know, I'm not a lawbreaker. Well, I may speed every now and then, but it's by accident. But I don't want them doing it. You know, I'm free white and 21. You know, don't be following me. It's against, you know, I feel it's against my Fourth Amendment rights. And I feel it's a crime. And so are you picking different flock cameras to set up near every Saturday? Like, how does that work? I look around and I see which ones are accessible. I don't want to break the laws by being in the public and blocking sidewalks. I like to have a little bit of shade because it's hot here in Florida. And at my age, it burns me out real quick. And so you've got a lawn chair, you just sit there, you've got your pole. Put it up in front of that camera. And I mean, I don't hurt the camera and I don't hurt the guy on the other end. But it brings attention to that camera and what a camera's doing. And I should note for our listeners, the camera, I mean, the poll rather, has the sign on the end. It says, down with the flock, and it's got your Instagram tag at the flock blocker. We're talking about flock cameras. With us is Carl Gunn, aka the flock blocker. Jean-Luc Adrian, who's an attorney with Brancato law firm and Matthew Graglia. who's a senior policy analyst at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Let's go to the phones. Sandy calling in from Brooksville. You're on the air, Sandy. What are you thinking? We had those cameras in my neighborhood to stop speeders and deal with the drug dealers in the neighborhood. The county commission voted them down and they took them down due to privacy. Well, when they took them down, the drug dealing went back up again and so did the speeders. We've got cameras in grocery stores, department stores, gas stations. People have phones on their cameras. I've got cameras in my yard. If you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about? So you're a fan of the flock cameras, or you think there's no issue with them as far as you're concerned, Sandy? That is correct. Well, Sandy, thanks for your call. Let me turn that one over to you, Jean-Luc. I mean, Sandy's saying, if you're not doing anything wrong, what do you got to worry about? Sure. I think the way our system is set up is for the police to develop that individualized suspicion from someone, and that suspicion needs to be reasonable. We've seen that when the police offload their police work finding suspicion...

that problems arise. You know, for years, police have, not everyone, but enough that a term driving while black came about where police offloaded their development of reasonable suspicion to racial biases. And pretextual stops happened. That was litigated. Still found to be legal pretextual stops, although not moral. In this instance, is the same thing that's happening. Police are sometimes offloading, and that's a fear, right? That as they develop, that police offload their police work to, you know, an automated system that makes mistakes that has things that are data sets that are not always updated. And when you do that, people are being stopped at gunpoint. Some people are even being jailed. And the risk is that someone could be jailed based on an automated misread or outdated information. and kept in jail for 14 days, 17 days. Let me read this email from Zeke, who writes, it's quite simple. They've been used for surveillance of the citizenry, not just license plates, who's abusing an already documented cases, police officers, to track their exes or stalk hot people they've stopped. It's BS and a violation of the Fourth Amendment. And he notes a website too. There is a website, deflock.org, which is a... dedicated to, I guess, combating flock cameras, we should say. If you want to email us, your thoughts about this, we're talking about flock cameras, what they do, concerns about them, maybe some of their uses for law enforcement, the email addresses Florida Matters at WUSF.org. And you can also give us a call 81375562. Jean-Luc Adrian is with us with Brancardo Law Firm, also with us Carl Gunn, aka the Flock Blocker, who's been out and about on Saturdays protesting Flock Camerons with a very long sign on the end of a pool. What would you call that? I guess it's a pool. Paul? Paul. Yeah, Paul Paul. And Matthew Guariglia, senior policy analyst at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, you can call in, let us know what you think about flock cameras. Are they useful? Paul Skimmer, thank you. Are they useful or are they over-bearing surveillance? 813755-6562 is the number to give us a call or email us. Florida Matters at WUSF.org. Carl, Jean-Luc and Matthew, do stay with us. We'll continue the conversation in a moment.

Welcome back to Florida Matters Live and local. I'm Matthew Petty. We're talking about flock cameras, the uses of them and some people's concerns about them. You can join the conversation. The number is 813-75-6-2. That's 813-755-6-2 or email Florida Matters at WUSF.org. With us is Carl Gunn. He's been spending some Saturdays covering up flock cameras. Goes by... The nickname the flock blocker. Will this also is Matthew Guariglia, senior policy analyst at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and John Luke, Adrian, who's an attorney with Brancato law firm. And as I said, we want to hear from you. Thoughts on flock cameras. Are you worried about having your movements tracked? The number 813-755-62 or email Florida Matters at WUSF.org. Matthew... We did have that email just a moment or two ago from somebody who mentioned that in some cases, law enforcement officers have been using the information to track people and use it for purposes that obviously flat cameras weren't designed for that. But can you say more about that? What cases have those been and what does that show or highlight about people's concerns with these devices? Yeah, I mean, there are a number of cases nationwide, but particular, I think now they've been over a dozen cases in Georgia alone, where officers have not only been found to be using the technology to stalk people, but have been arrested for using them wrongly as well as in some cases fired. And this is not unique to flock. I mean, I think for as long as there has been police surveillance, police have used it to track significant others or pretty women they meet on the street. This is not really unusual. what we've seen is that the more advanced equipment they have, the more likely it is to be abused by these officers. And it seems like a lot of the protections thus far rolled out. And I know flock is in the process, I think, of rolling out more. have not really helped because, you know, if an officer is already going to break the law or at least departmental policy following somebody with this high-tech equipment, lying about why they're accessing that technology is just one more small misdeed. So I have yet to see any kind of proof that a lot of this auditing or protective work is really going to, in a large scale, prevent officers from abusing this technology. I should note, too, there was a case in Haynes City where a police officer was arrested. for using the flock system to track as a strange wife. And report said he made 717 inquiries on the flock camera platform into a car between September 1st, 2024 and June 30th of this year. Carl, we did have that call from a listener a moment just two ago who said, look, in her neighborhood, they'd been using flock cameras to crack down on drug dealers and speeders. They voted them down. And then the drug dealers and speeders came back. And she also said, look, if you're not doing anything wrong, what have you got to worry about? Your thoughts on that? Well, my thoughts on that is most of us didn't even know that the flock cameras were even there. And I would imagine that the drug dealers didn't know it there for a while. And if they're smart, they avoid them. I know if I was a drug dealer, I'm not going near the cameras because they're online. You can see where they're at. I can do my business and never be seen.

So as far as what her comments was is they just went somewhere else. I've got a call. Jill is calling in from Landerlakes. Jill, you're on the year. What are your thoughts on this? Well, as I told the other gentleman that I was talking to, I used to work for flock safety. And the biggest problem really isn't the technology, but rather the misuse of it by the law enforcement personnel, which you had referenced before. That's giving it a bad name. I mean, again, this is a technology that takes pictures that can be utilized by law enforcement to do very good things, to protect the public. catch the criminals to do what it's meant to do, but it's getting kind of a bad rap because of the... unwarranted fears that many of the American citizenry has around that kind of CCTV mentality, which is so common in Europe and the UK. So, you know, I think it's just, it's one of the things that people really need to understand what that technology is. And what I also told them is that a lot of those images are second checked by human eyes. And by AI now, they're employing AI a lot more in terms of going through. So the time that it is misread is much less, or the amount that it's misread, is much less than it has been historically. Jill, thank you so much for your call. I appreciate that. As an attorney, Jean-Luc, sort of thinking about some of those things, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, the use of AI, the kind of extra set of review there to make sure they're getting things right. I mean, is it a matter of maybe more safeguards that could make the use of technology less troublesome or worrisome for folks? I think legally speaking, there needs to be a warrant requirement. for some searches for flock data. I mean, we saw last summer, and I know that your news company reported on the use of FHP flock to look for immigration enforcement. A lot of the folks that were searched through the flock system did not have any criminal convictions, which was... what was talked about writ large. But the issue, too, is that when you look at flock data that's retroactive, it's basically a time machine that really sets out for you where someone has been, their daily routine, things that I think a lot of Americans would have issues with if you use their cell phone data to determine about them. But when you use their location data through their car, that's a parallel, a distinct parallel that should require warrant requirements.

We should note, too, the St. Petersburg Police Department says they take the use of this technology seriously. We did invite them on the show. They weren't able to join us today, but they have the statements and they talk about some of the things they do with their flock data. They retain the video for only 30 days. They limit the system access, they say, to authorize personnel only, and they require users to document the legitimate law enforcement reason. for each search. Matthew, I mean, are some of the things that police departments and other law enforcement agencies doing, are they setting up enough safeguards in your view to make this technology, I mean, kind of less worrisome for folks who are concerned about some of those privacy issues? Absolutely not. I mean, I think I think that's exactly right is the bare minimum we need as a warrant requirement. If police want to look for where a car has been for the last 30 days based on flocks retained data, they definitely need to go to a judge and justify why they need to. essentially retroactively put a kind of fantasy GPS device on a car to see where it's been the last 30 days. And I think one thing people should note is that, you know, these devices are justified by saying they're going to be out there finding the worst crimes and the worst criminals. But the other 99% of the time when there's no active murder suspect being chased down, these devices don't just turn off and wait for the next serious crime. They're on and they're recording data all. all the time. And what we've seen is that nationwide is that this very invasive and very widespread surveillance network is not just being used to find, you know, the worst of the worst. It is being used for really mundane things. It is being used to track people who have driving with a cell phone in their hand, who are being verified to make sure they live in the same district where their children are going to school and as well as being abused for things. like stocking people. So these devices need a tremendous amount more protections and a war requirement needs to be the base. We're going to have to leave the conversation there, but I just wanted to read this thought from a caller who called in. I didn't want to be on the air, but Mike and Dunedin said our presumption of innocence is fundamental democracy, and Mike feels that flock cameras can threaten that. I want to thank our guests. We've been speaking with Matthew Guariglia, Senior Policy Analyst with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Carl Gunn, aka the flock blocker, and Jean-Luc, Adrian, attorney with Brancato law firm, Jean-Luc. Carl and Matthew, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Well, coming up next, we won't be voting for a president this November, but the election is no less important. We'll talk about why you should vote non-presidential elections and especially in the primary, early voting underway right now. Florida Matters, live and local continues in a moment. Stay with us. You're listening to WUSF.

Welcome back to Florida Matters Live and Local. I'm Matthew Petty. Well, voter turnout may not be as high as in elections when presidential candidates aren't on the ballot, but that does not mean you should skip the ballot box. And of course, we've got a primary election underway, early voting underway, good reasons to get out and vote as well. For more on why these elections are just as important and how to vote, we're joined by Pascoe County Election Supervisor Brian Corley. Brian, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Max. And we want to hear from you. Have you voted early? Maybe you mailed in a ballot. What was that process like? Maybe you've got questions about some part of the election process from security to where to vote. You can join the conversation by calling 813-755-6562. That's 813-755-62 or emailing Florida Matters at WUSF.org. Brian, I understand you just stepped away from a canvassing board meeting. Is that right? That is correct. Yes, sir. Yeah, just for our listeners, what does the canvassing board do? The canvassing board, each county has, under Florida law, what's called the county canvacy board, and a respective supervisor elections. He or she runs the elections, of course, their names on the door. But what I'd like to refer to as a mini check and balance. This county canvacy board is comprised of a county judge, ordinarily a county commissioner, and the supervisor elections. Those three individuals are charged with overseeing the testing of the voting tabulators we're to use. Like today, we are canvassing our vote by mail ballots. So we are there determining voter intent. And ultimately, this county came to order. We'll certify the election and, of course, deal with any subsequent recounts. We don't like to say the R word, but they're responsible for overseeing that as well. Okay. So very important job there. Early voting, of course, underway. Some county's got a bit of a head start on it last week. How is early voting going in Pascoe County? It's going very smooth. You're absolutely right. You know, we advocated in the legislature after the 2012 cycle that, you know, one size doesn't fit all. Give us flexibility because like, for example, Hillsborough started on Monday. We started this past Saturday. So they had a little bit more days and they need that because they're a larger county. So it's going very smooth, very, very smooth. I will say there's an undeniable pattern switch among voters because it had been generally about a third vote by mail. a third early voting in person and of course election day and we're seeing vote by mail is down considerably but we are seeing a rather sizable uptick and in-person early voting so some voters who aren't feeling vote by mail are showing up for early voting which is fine it's just you know in florida we have options as you know yeah i mean election supervisors uh by and large and you're no exception are very accessible to the public right voters can kind of talk to you and if they have concerns or questions or whatever. I'm wondering, are you chatting with voters this election? What are you hearing from them? What's the kind of mood like?

voters are clearly energized. The biggest issue you have with primaries, particularly in Florida, is, you know, Florida is a closed primary state. So your ballot is going to contain, you know, if you're a Republican, the Republican contest, and then the nonpartisan, a Democrat, the Democratic contest, and then the nonpartisan. Anything else is strictly the nonpartisan. So you can't be a no party affiliation or independent and vote on the Republican governor or the Democratic U.S. Senate. And some voters. come from states up north where it's more of an open primary concept that's not an issue so that's really the biggest challenge we have is explain to voters that under florida law they had until july 20th to switch their party affiliation to vote for particular contests that they wanted to and have you seen a lot of people do that in pasco county Not a tremendous number, but it's pretty consistent. Every cycle we get those type of inquiries. But no, we haven't had a whole lot of inquiries. Voters have been turning out in person higher than ordinarily. And it's, you know, I'm pleased to say with not any major issues. What are some of the most frequently asked questions that you're fielding from voters this year then? Well. A lot of voters who requested a vote by mail ballot don't remember requesting it. So they're like, why did you send me this ballot? And I think the confusion lies in when they sign up for it, they didn't think to ask for just the general election. That's really what they're interested in. So they got one for the primary because they asked for it, quite frankly. So that's probably the biggest issue is because about the number of that we sent out, we've gotten about 50% back. And so we've got a good number of voters saying, you know, hey, why did you send this to me? We just have to explain to them that they requested for both the primary and the general, and they're still going to get one for the general. If you're just joining us on Florida Matters Live and Local, we're talking with Pascoe County Election Supervisor Brian Corley. Have you voted yet? Do you like to vote early or do you hit to the polls on Election Day? You've got questions about the process, how ballots are counted, for example. Give us a call. 813755-6562. That's 813755-62. You can also email Florida Matters. at WUSF.org. Brian, just kind of switching gears for a moment, thinking big picture. Now, you and your staff, and election staff all around the state of Florida, put a lot of effort into making sure elections run smoothly, but why is it important, you know, fundamentally for people to get out there and exercise their right to vote, whether they do it early, whether they vote by mail, whether they do it in person on Election Day? That's a great question and a very simple answer. I would submit we owe it as voters to come out and have your voice heard the ballot box for those that wore and wear the uniform of the United States military. You know, we've had, it's been said, one of my favorite quotes, we've had men and women cross oceans to fight for our freedom. Some never came back while others won't cross street to vote. So I think we owe it to those individuals and quite honestly. At a minimum, if you don't vote, you can't complain. Come out and have your opinions heard at the ballot box. I think it's just really that simple. Are there some barriers to voting? And if so, what are they?

I don't believe so. I mean, when you register a vote, you know, again, in Florida, you have options. So when you register a vote, you can register what like most people do when you get your driver's license at the tax letters office. You can still do an old school form. It's available at public assistance agencies, libraries, schools, etc. And then myself and my fellow supervisors advocated for what we've had now for about a decade of online voter registration. So you can register using your smartphone. It takes all about five minutes. And then from there, Once you're registered, we're going to send you a sample ballot that gives you your options. If you want to vote by mail, there's that option. If you want to have early voting, here are the locations. And of course, your election day polling place. And here's the sample ballot. Here's what's on the ballot. So we give you every necessary tool you have to come out and exercise your precious right to vote. Election security, Brian, has been in the headlines quite a bit in recent years. Do you get questions about election security from your voters in Pascoe County? And if you do, what do you say to reassure people? What I tell individuals, yeah, we get a lot, we get a lot of questions about the security of vote by mail. As I mentioned, it's down considerably. And I kind of, you know, I don't want to say saddens me because what we're being told is just simply not true. You know, vote by mail, for example, is safe, it is secure. I vote by mail. My wife votes by mail. And dare I say, more importantly, my eight-year-old mom votes by mail. So I don't know what greater testimony you can give than that. But we get a lot of, we get a lot of individuals that, you know, they see something on Facebook or social media and they're calling. And, you know, I hear that these voting machines are connected to Italian military satellites. The Chinese are altering the results from thermostats. I'm not making this up, Max. These are actual questions. people come to me with. So, you know, it's good they're reaching out with these concerns, and we're usually able to alleviate them and tell them, you know, be careful of what you see on social media. Take a step back because that is a great source of misinformation and disinformation. As an example, you know, your listeners might be interested to know that in the 2016 election, over 72,000 Americans, RSVP to a political rally that originated, not from one of the campaigns, rather originated from Moscow. And you can look that up. That was in the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, chaired by Senator Marco Rubio. So we're having the deal with pushback on a lot of the misinformation, disinformation out there. When it comes to the staff that help make sure these elections run smoothly, how do you make sure that they have everything they need to do their jobs effectively? So our poll workers, and we call them election workers up here in Pasco. They absolutely inspire me every day. We just finished our trainings. Right now, we have hundreds in my county that are working for early voting that are helping us process vote by mail ballots. You know, these are individuals of different races, genders, ages, different political backgrounds. But there's a higher calling. They step up to serve their country, their community, and their democracy. They're required to train them. They get more than adequate training, both online and in person. And they're quite, honestly, they're ready. They're ready for election day. They're ready to get going and make Florida shine again.

If you're just joining us on Florida Matters Live and Local. We're talking about early voting, about the primary election, about off-year elections with Pascoe County Election Supervisor Brian Corley. Maybe you've got a question for Brian. Maybe you've voted already. Maybe you're thinking about heading over to the polls on Election Day. We've got questions about the process. Give us a call. 813-75562 is the number. That's 81375562. You can also email Florida Matters at WUSF.org. Is being a poll worker something that people are lining up to do these days, Brian? Yeah, all and all. I mean, we go through cycles where some just sort of just, you know, by their own admission, age out and ready to hand the baton off to the next generation. So we generally have good success. I know my colleagues do as well. We're, you know, pretty resourceful in how we recruit individuals. And so it's generally not a problem. I mean, this is one of the things that we do. People ask what we do in between elections. There's a lot that goes on in the planning before an election cycle, and one of which involves staffing up your election worker. complement. So we do a lot of outreach in between election cycles. So yeah, we're definitely a good posture. There's been a lot written about voter ID and headlines too. Like what ID do you need to vote right now? 99.99% of voters present their Florida driver's license or identification. That's the most common. But, you know, as of right now, you can, for example, you can use a passport. You can use a student ID. You can use a veteran's ID, for example. Now, that's going to be powered back a little bit with the passage of House Bill 991. So starting on January 1, 2027, it's going to pull back on some of those IDs. uh that's are currently acceptable for the upcoming primary general it's it's pretty wide open so and then let me just make one quick point sure literally and i can pretty much confidently say in every county in florida on on the uh either during early voting or election day a voter or voters will show up and they just simply forgot their their identification happens every time And we have an ultimate safety valve called the provisional ballot. We never turned voters away. If your eligibility can't be determined, in this case, the most common forgot your ID. You complete some paperwork. You get to vote a ballot. It doesn't go in the tabulator. It gets put in a sealed envelope, comes back to our office, and then we research to make sure that vote is duly qualified elector, and then we're able to count that vote. If you show up to the polling place, though, and discover that you aren't on the list of registered voters, you know, say maybe you didn't update your... your registration. What do you do? What can you do? Again, you have that, you have that ultimate safety valve and those are provisional. That also happens. Well, you know, Florida has, before any election, there's a book closing date, 29 days before any election is the last date to register. So we have individuals, and that date was July 20th for the upcoming primary next Tuesday. So we will have individuals who will show up and they are registered.

But not for the selection. They may be registered on July 21st or afterwards. And so, or they're not in the rolls. If they, you know, we'll let them know, hey, you know, hey, voter, you're not eligible. Here's why under floor of law. If they continue contest it, we just offer a provisional ballot. And we'll do the research and make sure, again, there's a duly qualified ballot before we actually count it. If not, we just never open that envelope and it never gets tabulated. And does the provisional ballot, does that apply to folks if the signature doesn't match as well? No, that's a little bit separate scenario. So in a vote by mail ballot, you know, let me just say this. When it comes back to us, that's another urban legend we hear. You know, oh, you don't check the signatures. We have to enter Florida law. Everyone is verified against the signature we have on file. And if you didn't sign it or the signature does not match, we will reach out to you per Florida law and say, hey, voter, the signature doesn't match. And then you have to do complete what's called a cure affidavit and provide additional identification. And you have until the Thursday after Election Day to get that into office. So if it's signature doesn't match, you know, people get older. We get medical conditions. It's not a problem. You can, you know, I encourage voters when in doubt, update your signature. You know, do it now. But worst case scenario is you always have the right to cure that vote by mail ballot to make sure it does get counted. Okay, got a call from David in Clearwater. David, you're on the air quickly if you can. My question is, with the current emphasis on security, the guest said that you could register on your smartphone. And my question is, how do you know that that person on a smartphone is eligible to register as a voter? All right, good question. Thanks, David. That's an outstanding question. So it's actually run not by the local supervisor elections. That's up to the Florida Department of State Division of Elections that created this online portal. You have to provide some personally identifying information to include your last four of your social and your driver's license number. So someone have to have both those individual pieces. We've had this for a decade now, and I've not heard of one case. where someone said, hey, I wasn't registered, but someone registered for me. So there's that security layer. The site itself is secure. So it's just not great question, but it's just not been an issue. Brian Corley, we're going to have to leave it there. Brian Coley, Pascoe County Supervisor of Elections. Thank you so much, and best of luck for the election. Hope everything goes smoothly. Thank you. We're coming up next. Game time. Maybe you remember the classic spot in Ebor City. It closed its doors last Sunday. What did game time mean to you? What does it say about Ebor and Tampa when a retro hotspot shuts its doors? Florida matters. Live and local continues in a moment. Stay with us.

Welcome back to Florida Matters. Live and local, I'm Matthew Petty. Well, earlier in our show, we were talking about flock cameras, some of the concerns around them, the uses of them. Got a couple of emails here. David and Largo wrote in and saying, I agree 100% with the caller who said, if you're not breaking the law, what do you have to worry about? And he said, as for the flock blocker, he needs to get a life. Thanks for that email. Also, another email named LG. said, I have no problem with security cameras. What I do have a problem with is the searchable AI database that becomes a nationwide dragnet with high potential of abuse. Also could be used to curtail the right to protest or free speech. Now, if you've got thoughts about this, you can send them to us via email, Florida Matters at WUSF.org. Right, so turning now to Game Time. It was the end of an error past this past weekend. This past Sunday, Game Time, and Ibor City closed its doors for 16 years. The arcade at Centro, Ibor was a place to gather with games and friends. It's also among several long-time, Ebor City businesses that have recently closed their doors, and it had us reminiscing about what it was once like in Ibor and what's still to come. For Game Time fans, you can visit one of the five locations across the state. still but today want to remember the Tampa location and joining us to reflect on GameTime tamper as Mike Abacassas is the CEO of GameTime Mike thank you so much for stopping by thank you for the opportunity I appreciate being here it's certainly a special time in our story indeed and Erica Olsen is with us to strategic engagement and content manager Erica thank you as well Thank you for having me. I want to hear from you too. Maybe you've got a favorite memory of Game Time and Ebor. Maybe there's another business in Ebor City you miss. Give us a call. 813-756-6-2. That's 813-755-6-2. You can also email Florida Matters at WUSF.org. So, Mike, what was the mood like Sunday when Game Time Tampa closed its doors for the last time? Certainly interesting to say the least. easiest for us to focus on our team members, right? So look at how our team members interacted to the last days with the guests that came and visited. Certainly touching to see how many people enjoyed our centers and came in to get some before and after photos and those things were great. The opportunity to look back on the touches and the impacts that we've made on the community are interesting. I think, I'd like to think, I should say, that we've left on a high note. I think most of the people that came in. towards the end or the communications we had have been nothing but positive. We certainly appreciate it. The memories are hard to dig through and not find them emotional. Erica, what do you think it was that made the Ebor City location special? Probably just like the community of everybody there. You know, leading up to the closing date, we've had a lot of people reach out, message us, comment on our Facebook posts. And it's great to see the generations, you know, like we've had people commenting, this is my childhood. I grew up here. And other people commenting, oh, my kids love coming here. So just seeing parents who grew up and.

now getting to bring their own kids. It's something that you don't really find everywhere. I mean, there's an element of nostalgia in that kind of arcade anyway, right? So I imagine people are going there for nostalgic reasons and then when something like this closes, then it's kind of doubling down on that nostalgia. Right. Exactly. Mike, you know, there have been a few establishments closed in Ewar City in the last few years. Was there a moment when you knew this time was up for a game time, Ewall City? The story for Ebor City is certainly longer than the 16 years. The venue was there as GameWorks for 10 years. We acquired it after they closed through an ABC process and had the opportunity to reopen it and rebrand it and do some wonderful things there. The turning point certainly that we saw that Ebor City became more challenging for us was not so much the local community or the local businesses coming and going was when the dynamic changed and it was no longer an entertainment destination. And I think that the biggest turning point was when the theater. went dark and was no longer operating there. So, you know, we really go kind of hand in hand with that out-home entertainment idea is typically we're trying to convince people to get off their couches and off their devices, much more so than a competitor next door. So. a competitor in the entertainment space benefits us, and it brings the community in with the idea of let's go there for entertainment, right? So it's not even necessarily which destination are you going to, but the overall feeling and culture within Ebor City kind of changed as it was no longer driven by entertainment. We saw other entertainment concepts go, but when the theater had downsized the half the screens and then went away, that was probably the biggest turning point that we saw in that market. Was 2020 crucial in that, too? Was it hard to come back from the pandemic? People kind of basically staying on their couches and maybe streaming more stuff than going out? You know, the pandemic is certainly one of those things that we'll look back at and call it a life lesson. We wish we never learned. I think I can repeat that in almost every segment I get the touch when I think through it. The reality was that it created a very pent-up demand for out-of-home entertainment. And when things returned, kind of returned with the boom, we certainly saw. everything from the battles of how do we open and people that didn't want to be in a venue that didn't have masks and sanitizer stations and all of that everywhere. But then just saw that people just wanted to get out and touch the community and enjoy their loved ones. And so we were a great place for that. All of our venues saw, you know, hyperactivity post-pandemic and then return to stabilization. And certainly the last couple of years have been challenging. But Ebor City wasn't any different than that. The pandemic certainly offered us challenges and a lot of lessons, right? I mean, we're a very different organization today post-pandemic than we are pre-pandemic. As an industry, we're a different industry. So nothing that was specific to Tampa. the pandemic or again, I'll leave it as labeled as life lessons we wish we never learned. We're talking about the closing of game time in Ebor City after 16 years. Maybe you spent time there as a kid or when it was a spot before it was game time. Maybe you took a date there or two. What Ebor City businesses would you bring back if you could? Give us a call. 813-755-6562. You can also email Florida Matters at WUSF.org.

Erica, I'm just kind of thinking about some of the stories that you might have heard over the last few days, though, as people reflect on GameTime, Ebor. There is still a place for an arcade like this, a kind of a throwback where people can do something, you know, interactive with people that doesn't necessarily mean they're sitting on a couch looking at a screen. Right. What is the question? I mean, there's still a place, I think, for a place like Game Town, a place where people can go and enjoy like a retro arcade, as Mike was saying, spend time with friends and family. I'm sort of thinking you may have heard more stories like that in the last few days as people reflect on the closure. Like there may be still a place for a game time or something similar in Tampa. Well, I don't want to, I would love to, you know, boost up game time and say that there is really just no other place like it. Not that I can think of in terms of, you know, the amount of people that have come and have really... told us how special it is to them specifically. We've had a lot of people come in year after year to celebrate everything from like birthdays to 50th birthdays to rehearsal dinners. It's really just a place of community and Yeah. Yeah. I'll touch on that. If you don't mind for a moment. You know, I think one of the things that we really strive for is more internal than typically spoken out loud. But we work really hard on a regular basis to see as few devices in our venues as possible. And we certainly don't put lockers at the door and say leave your phone there. But I think we're doing our best and our best service to the community when people aren't on their devices. And I often tell the story that when you see somebody. It's funny. I have a hard time with the story sometimes. But when you see somebody with a smile on their face that's unexpected and they don't know why they're enjoying their moments and they're loving something with their loved ones that they don't usually touch, right? So a child that sees why his parents adore each other. different than they do, sitting at home, arguing over what's for dinner, where they're going to go financial troubles. We've done something right when we've put a smile on somebody's face, and they actually don't know why. And I think that's part of what we try to build in the culture, the game selection, the menu offerings, everything about how and why that experience is self-driven and not interrupted by patterns that we try to put in place. So it's really an extension of your living room is what we've tried to build. And I think we've built a lot of special moments in our venues. Yeah, it sounds like it. We've got to call a Sierra calling in from St. Pete. Sierra, you're on the air. What are you thinking? Hi. I just want to say I grew up in Tampa, Florida. I've lived in Tampa and St. Pete for 44 years of my life. I've been going to Ebor for as long as I can remember. And I just have watched it change so much. And I just wanted to say...

I have so much love for Tom to George and the Crow Bar. I've gone to almost every show that I could go to there. And now it's the end of an era and Live Nation has taken over. And it's just really sad to see these beautiful venues and places and spaces that I grew up going to and spent my whole life just going away. I want to say rest in peace. And thank you to Tom to George and thank you to game time and to all the people that have made Ybor what it is. It's really sad to see it changing so much. So thank you. Sierra, thank you for you cool. I appreciate that. Mike, obviously this, you know, this particular space means a lot to you. I can see that it's really important to you and clearly to our caller. Sierra there as well, not just game time, but also the crowbar that she mentioned, so that the kind of ecosystem, I guess, has changed a little bit of the entertainment space that Eboy City was. Yeah, you know, um, Areas come and go and highs and lows, we've certainly seen 16 years highs and lows, both in Ebor and we saw as we were having the opportunity to enter that market that it was back on an upswing. And that's oftentimes driven by external factors. I think Ebor City has had a clear focus on trying to keep some history and there's some great stories there and why the community is what it is. But, you know, developers go and build a new big development elsewhere. People want to live in an urban environment. People don't want to drive. People want to drive. People want public transportation. All of those things affect kind of how and what they're touching and feeling. You know, certainly it's sad to see it go. I guess where I would leave off on that sad to see it go, whether it's crowbar or game time, is I'm excited to see what's to come. And, you know, we're not sure what those spaces will offer tomorrow. But I think it should be driven by the community. And I think they'll be great. Real quick, in the last 15 seconds or so, favorite arcade game for you, ski ball, something else maybe? Oh, you know, I have to lean back on air hockey. I'm not allowed to play with my kids. My wife says I'm a little too aggressive on it. I've cut up her finger a couple times with the puck kind of having fun. I think that's the difference between maybe male and female in our house where I'm a little bit more competitive, but probably air hockey. I think it's one of the best games. It's motion causes emotion, and you can't really play it without any emotion, so it's a fun game for me. Mike Abacassas, CEO of Game Time. We've been talking about the closure of that location in Eble City. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Also with us, Erica Olsen's strategic engagement and content manager for game time. Erica, thank you as well. Thank you. That's our show for today next time on Florida Matters Live and Local. What makes some of us want to dive into the swampiest part of our state and hunt? Big snakes. We're going to talk with a python hunter. That's tomorrow at noon. Our executive producer is Grace and Dr. Quincey Walters is our producer. Our engineers are Jackson, Hart, Blake Bass, and Geo Garvin. Jackson composed the theme music, and Warren Buckholz handled the video today. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast, and you can also watch on YouTube.

hopefully i'm matthew patty thanks for being with us we'll see you tomorrow