7-27-26 Hour 2 - Youth, Socialism, and a return to Church
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Transcript
99 segmentsFund to my administration, a once feared and powerful regime that relentlessly attacked America has finally been toppled. Their former leaders have been removed, and they're now being run by a gay dictator facing internal divisions. But I, for one, wish Bari Weiss, all the best at CBS News. She's a wonderful woman. A wonderful woman. I think he likes the change in tone over at CBS. And maybe he's trying to influence some others like ABC NBC to follow course. We shall see. But I am now going to welcome in a friend, C.J. Pearson, a top conservative influencer who actually started blogging. I think it was the age eight. Am I right, CJ? You're right, Alex. Good morning to you. Thanks so much for having me. I know. I appreciate it. Yeah. I have a four-year-old, and I don't think it would quite be as aggressive in terms of her advocacy at age eight blogging. She does like the camera, though. So maybe that's a positive. Um, but she'll be following mom and stuff. Yeah, well, great, great work you're doing. Um, I wanted to get you on a little bit to talk up first about you have a new pack and I saw Fox News did a huge write up about it. It's called Next 250. Can you tell me a little bit about it and what your plans are? Definitely. Well, I'll tell you, Alex, you know, being from the state of Georgia, I've seen firsthand, you know, how aggressively the left is working to court, both young and minority voters, you know, two groups of people that the left has spent an inordinate amount of energy trying to gaslight with indoctrination, with misinformation, and just downright falsehoods about this country and the direction that it should head. And I think that if we're going to ensure the Republicans continue to win, not just in 2026, but in 2028 and in the years ahead, we've got to do the work not just to preach to the choir, but to. rode the congregation. And so what we're going to be doing is targeting swing state voters, young people, minority voters with truth, reaching them where they are, you know, throwing compelling in real life events and actually registering them to vote, taking them out to the polls. Because I think that that is exactly what we need to be doing more of. I think that this party now more than ever has a unique opportunity to reach groups of people that previously may have alluded the Republican Party. But what we saw in 2024 is that President Trump did not just well with minority voters, but he did great with young voters at a rate that, you know, was unprecedented in terms of Republican candidate for president. And he talked about using TikTok for that and social media. I know you're an expert in terms of online platforms. Is that something you will incorporate with your PAC or how do you see that being best utilized?
Yeah, definitely. It goes back to reaching these voters where they are and where they are, you know, for better for worse, oftentimes is going to be in that device that's in the palm of their hands all the time, right? And so we're going to be working with influencers and creators, but also too, yeah, we're going to be on platforms like TikTok. We're going to be on Instagram. And we're going to take our message wherever we can. Okay, yeah. CJ Pearson, conservative influencer, talking to me a little bit about his new PAC next 250. Let me ask you, do you, what about like ads? I'm guessing that'll be a focus as their particular states. You mentioned George. I know that's a big passion for you, but like I've been talking a lot about Maine, what's going on there with Troy Jackson, just replacing Graham Platner. Michigan seems a bit crazy. Yeah, yeah. So we're going to be primarily focused on Georgia. And the reason that we're focusing on Georgia is because I've always said, you know, we save Georgia, we save America. You know, the majority is going to run through that entire state. We've got to get rid of Jon Ossoff. He is a professional Nepo baby who has somehow figured out a way to fail his way to the top and has never actually had a real job ever. And I think that the people of Georgia deserve better. We're a conservative state. We deserve conservative representation. So we're actually pledging and committing to do $1 million in ads targeting young voters. in the state of Georgia to turn them out for our candidate because, you know, we talked about this in our conversation with the Washington Times, Alex, but we can't rest in our loals, right, when it comes to young voters. Just because President Trump did well doesn't necessarily mean that those same young voters are as enthused to show up in a midterm election because a lot of people don't think about the midterms, but the midterms are just as important. us winning the House, us keeping the Senate, will ensure that President Trump doesn't get impeached again or doesn't get, you know, these meritless investigations. And I think we've got to work hard to ensure that that doesn't happen. Yeah. And one of the other things I think I read in the Fox News report on your PAC is the targeting of campuses. And I remember it seemed the left wing, the progressive wing of the party of the Democratic Party. really took hold on college campuses in terms of these socialist, these DSA-aligned candidates, a focus on foreign issues with like anti-Israel. You know, we also kind of get that with what's going on with Iran right now. One of what's the plan in terms of going on to campuses. I know that was something Charlie Kirk was really known for. Yeah, you know, is it something that, you know, Charlie largely pioneered, right? And I think, you know, what we saw when we saw all these kids, you know, protesting on college campuses, you know, supporting Hamas openly and brazenly, who were the kids that were actually pushing back on that and kind of bullying them and a good kind of bullying, right? It was the frat guys who were saying, wait, no, we love America here. And if you hate Israel and you love Hamas so much, then, you know, go to Palestine if that place did exist, right? But what I'm saying is that we're going to be on college. colleges, we're going to be throwing these cool events, and we're going to actually be partnering with celebrity rappers like Soldier Boy and Wonka Flaka and inviting kids on campus, partnering with these fraternies and sororities to basically throw these huge events that around voter registration. Now, I went to the University of Alabama. I was in a fraternity there. I got to tell you that most fraternies are probably more conservative than a lot of your college Republican chapters across the country. But those are the exact people that we need to turn out to vote because they're not thinking about it. And if they have a reason to go to the poll.
a fun and engaging way that really hasn't been tried before on our side, we think that we can get them there. One of the things I think you and I talked about previously too, you mentioned some of the positive aspect of bullying. I guess there was like what was, I think it might have been in North Carolina. There was a back and forth over the Palestinian flag being flown. And then I guess some frat boys came in and took it down, put the American flag back up. What's your message? How do you counsel people to go ahead and do moves like that? I guess do you worry that some, especially with some of the, I guess you could say like professors or those and the administration officials on these college campuses are pretty left leaning themselves. You know, what about students who are worried about their grades or being targeted because of this? Or even like we like to see a lot now with the lawfare arrested for something. Yeah, you know, it's truly unfortunate, right? Because, you know, college campuses used to be a place where we were having these open debates and dialogues and conversations. But all too often, many of these leftist professors are the very individuals that are stifling the free and fair exchange of ideas. And it's a shame. And so what I would tell, you know, my peers and folks my age, I'm 23, those who are still in college, I would say, know that you are not alone. We are the silent majority. But I got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of being the silent majority. I think it's time for us to get a little bit rowdy, a little bit loud. because the left is loud, right? They don't make any attempt to hide what they believe in or, you know, to, you know, go out and probably say that all white people are racist or that, you know, they should be out here transing children. They don't shy away from that. Now, of course, we see in New York City. They're openly calling themselves socialist before they tried to run away from that label and gaslight us and say, oh, how dare you call us to socialists? We're not a socialist. We're just progressive. Now they're openly calling themselves that. The mass has completely fallen off. And we ought to call. I'm out for. But I think there's, you know, courage and numbers. And I think that that's exactly what we're going to build. And one of the hard things about midterm elections is getting, you know, it's a base election. I guess a lot of people talk about general elections that you really, that's when your independence and your middle matter. But in terms of primary, it's really getting those that are the most energized. And you've talked about how loud they're on the left, the far left. They're going to be out voting. You know, how do we energize? I guess the MAGA voters, but also in particular, the younger voters who are, it's hard to get them to turn out for a general, let alone a midterm. What issues, CJ, do you think that those younger voters, I know you've done work with the RNC in the past, you know, what do you think the right messaging for these Republican candidates are to try to motivate these young folks to get out and vote? Is it affordability? Is it health care? Is it housing? Do they care about what's going on in Iran? like gas prices, like what what do you think is really something that they, they, you know, will motivate them to leave their dorm rooms or their homes and go cast a ballot? Yeah, definitely. I think when it comes to Gen Z, domestic issues are going to win the day every single time, right? And I think that we definitely have to have a plan when it comes to tackling affordability. I think many people have that on their minds. And we cannot completely see that issue to the left, right? I think that's why you see the success of these DSA-aligned candidates in states like New York and cities like New York City. And it's in large part because of the fact that Democrats, unfortunately, are the only ones talking about affordability. And while socialism has never worked anywhere it's been true.
I think there are a lot of people who are just desperate for anyone that's talking about it, and so they're willing to entertain whatever. And we've got to actually, I think, make the case for why conservative values and conservatism is going to actually help whatever affordability issues they're tackling far more than some pipe dream being sold with them by the likes of Zohran Mamdani and Zohran Mamdani. I also think housing is a big thing. You know, it was a cornerstone the American dream for our parents' generation to own a home. That's unfortunately been out of reach for a lot of people in my peer group. And I think that we've got to do more work to talk. about how we're going to tackle that. Of course, President Trump just, you know, the Republican-led Congress just passed this housing bill that is seeking to address that. I think we need a message about that. But also, too, there are a lot of wins that the president's put on the board for the American people, whether it's no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, incredible tax cuts that were in the big, beautiful bill. All of these things we've got to talk about. I oftentimes say that, you know, our messaging just needs to keep up with the president's wins because he's putting wins on the board every single day. We just got to talk about it. Yeah, I think you're right. One of the things that I hear, you know, I'm a millennial. And still, there's people who talk about how much they spend on their student loans, one, which is keeping them from buying a house. And you mentioned that being the American dream. I think for Gen Z voters, younger voters, like that housing issue is huge. I think I looked back in the 70s, a median cost for home was like somewhere between what was like 20 to 40,000. And now it's around 500,000. I mean, the comparison is, you know, mind blowing. which goes to show why you have less home ownership for the younger generations and also delayed marriages for that matter of fact. People are not able to buy a home, start a family. That was the last kind of thing I wanted to pick your brain on was you and I have also previously talked about a lot of reports and surveys of younger Gen Z's returning to church, younger men too doing so. And I've heard. priests say that they're noticing it in their um in at mass across the board really and i don't know if there was um we i just mentioned charlie kirk previously but some of these reports started coming after his death last september if there was a push or renewal then um people going back and seeking their faith uh the younger folks what do you make of this and like what should we take from it You know, it's incredible to see. You know, I think that the death of Charlie Kirk sparked not just a revolution in this country, but a revival of faith in a way in which we've never seen before. And there's so many young people that are leading that fight, you know, someone that, you know, some of your listeners may have seen come across TikTok. Or TikTok Kate, she's, Dana Perrinas is a assistant. She's been leading this movement called Pizza to Puse, where she actually organized, like a big pizza party. And a bunch of 20-somethings, like a hundred or so of them, they all then go to mass right after. I think it's great seeing such a grassroots movement or bringing people back to the church. It's great to see so many men, young men helping lead that effort as well because I think that, you know, call me a traditionalist, but I think that where men go, families will go. And so I think if that is an indication of where things are to come or where things are headed, we may be in better shape than we think.
I agree. And I also think it's a good place. This has got a little bit of a side note, but they talk a lot about younger people on social media and like how it damages mental health, you know, the constant scrolling, attention spans, short videos. The return to church and even like church groups, support groups, I think is also a good. mental health place for the younger generation in terms of where they can go and have their values, I guess, reinforced and not be drowned out, like you said, sometimes from the loud left that we see on college campuses and also transport onto these online platforms as well. You're right. And I think also, too, you know, when one finds God, they realize that they're not the most important person in the world. And they also have someone that they can lean on for understanding and in times of... trouble that they can go to seek guidance to and from. And so I think that overall, it's incredible, incredible to see. And it also, too, I think prevents this. We've seen so many studies, too, about like the loneliness epidemic that's happening with Gen Z, you know, people that are afraid to go out and talk to people and meet people, which is why you're seeing less relationships, less, you know, it's interesting. You like, you see these studies about like, oh, young people are drinking less. And that's... I guess great at face value, right? But what we also see is that they're just not going out. You know, they're kind of like, you know, addicted to their phones and always scrolling on social media. So it's good to see them going back to church and having that community. Absolutely. And hopefully your next 250 pack will help get them out even more. Thank you, C.J. Pearson, conservative influencer, for taking time and answering some of my questions.
Good morning. This is Alex Sawyer, Washington Times, editor at large, in for my friend and mentor, Chris Plant, who is sailing in the Mediterranean right now on a much deserved vacation. I hope he and his... crew are having a lot of fun. I am joined on the line by Matt Schlapp with his latest CPAC news. I'm going to pick his brain a little bit about what we're seeing here with the rise of socialism and then what he's hearing overseas when he's traveling and meeting in different countries. Matt, thank you so much for taking time to talk with me. Al, it's great to be with you. I'm just sorry that I'm not your mentor. You are my mentor. You and Mercy both. I appreciate you all so much. I enjoy always hearing what you have to say on Newsmax whenever we're on the right squad together. Now, here we are, WMAL, and we're going to talk a little bit more about our favorite topic, socialism, and what a danger it is. So I want to play a little clip and then get your reaction. It was... From Fox News, Shannon Bream with DSA co-chair Megan Romer. I believe it's our six cut. So we're going to put up on the screen a few of the things that are part of your platform. And I want to ask you, just give me sort of a true or false on these. Abolish the Senate. True. Okay. Replace the presidency and Supreme Court as we now know them. Yep. Abolish ICE. Absolutely. Abolish borders and give amnesty to anyone currently in the U.S. illegally. As a long-term plan, yep. Defund the Pentagon. Absolutely. Abolish prisons, at least in large part. Yeah, again, as part of a long-term program, yeah. Okay, so no prisons. Government or public ownership of most large corporations. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so that seems a bit extreme, no? Who the hell is that? That is the co-chair, Megan Romer, for the Democrat Socialist America. That is their platform and they are not shying away from it. I know you've spoken about the dangers of socialism. We see, I think that's like half a dozen candidates now, though, from the Democratic Party have won their primaries. Matt, over, you know, this platform. Let's jump right into this. You know, when I was in school, we actually studied communism. And it was the general impression that communism was a terrible and failed system. And when I was in college, like the wall fell and, you know, or just right after. And, you know, so like these were lessons we all knew. We seem to have unlearned these lessons as a society. Here's the problem. They'll say, well, this is democratic socialism. We vote in people that nationalize industries and we just make sure no one starves to death. Everyone gets health care. Everyone can have family leave. And it's very harmonious and it's just being kind to people. Here's the issue. The next step is what we're seeing in this country, the Marxism of ideas.
the idea that you don't have freedom of political thinking and speech. Yeah. I hear music. I hear music. Yeah, I know. I think we're up against a hard break. I know that this is something you guys are fighting back at CPAC with two in your meetings overseas in the UK, Paris. I'm going to have to hear more, hopefully soon, about those efforts, since it seems like this whole socialism wave was coming from Europe and now they might be pulling back a bit and now we're left to deal with it. But thank you so much, Matt, for joining me for just a few quick minutes to pick your brain. We'll be right back after this. Good morning. This is Alex Sawyer, Washington Times, editor at large, and legal affairs reporter, wearing a couple hats. And in for my good friend and mentor, Chris Plant. He is on vacation, and I hope he is enjoying himself. I think it's a day at sea, according to his little cruise schedule. So he's riding the waves. And y'all are riding the waves with me here. So the radio waves. I am very pleased to welcome in my main mentor. The best person I've ever learned from in Washington, also my boss, Stephen Dinan with The Washington Times. He served as our politics editor, our immigration reporter. He knows the ends and outs of the Capitol from his senior reporting there. and can kind of go behind the scenes and tell us a little bit about what's going on. I'm going to pick his brain on some of his latest stories. Hey, Dinan, thank you so much for taking some minutes out of your day to break down the latest courts and immigration news with us. Hello, Alex. I'm blushing at that introduction. I don't think I'll ever live that down. I miss our days sitting together in the Senate Press Gallery. That's where I learned the most about reporting and also about Washington, really. He would teach me which stairwells, the different lawmakers would use the most and how to kind of corner them to get them to answer my questions. I also was able to kind of learn who's the slowest, easy to target. But, you know, since your experience on the Hill, you and I were both there with Senator Lindsey Graham, the late Senator. And there's, I kind of want to start with, there's a two-minute clip. A recent news out of the weekend from CNN has, I guess it was audio that had not been released of Graham on the phone with Benjamin Netanyahu. And I just kind of want to play that for our audience. And then given your background covering Graham, I just was going to get your take of that real quick. I think it's cut five. Z.
Hey, Lindsey. How are you? Glad to be your friend. I'm glad you are my friend. This never before seen documentary footage of the late Senator Lindsey Graham gives us a rare look behind the scenes over his years-long campaign to strike Iran. Yeah, we're good. Okay, all right, connecting you now. Documentary filmmaker Alex Holder spent three years going behind the scenes with Senator Lindsey Graham before his death, recording more than 400 hours of remarkable video. I'm going to meet with the president this weekend. I'm going down to Doral. The South Carolina Republican was a key ally and Trump whisperer when it came to the war with Iran. And this behind-the-scenes call with these. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Graham has seen strategizing about how to approach President Trump. Graham appears to suggest that he'll actually meet with Trump to try to convince him to join Israel's bombing campaign against Hezbollah and Lebanon. I'm trying to get him to join him with y'all in Lebanon. to maybe fly some with you. Would you like that? And it's Benjamin Netanyahu who appears to dissuade Graham. I think you're at a point, but I've been thinking about the other side of it for a second. We're concentrating right now on Yvonne. If we tell Kizbaba that we're going all the way, we threaten them, but if we actually... Do it. Okay. And they have no reason not to go all the way against us. And right now, that's not our interest. Okay. We can do it right there. Well, I'll, okay, well, that's actually good counsel. I'll put it out there as an idea. We can always go back to it. And Graham, working both sides of the aisle, speaking shortly after with President Biden's former national security advisor, Jake Dan Sullivan. I taught to be beat this morning. Some of the people Graham spoke with by phone told the Wall Street Journal, they did not know the calls were being recorded. Okay, Diane, and I had to play that. And one of the things I thought was interesting was Graham was always kind of a hawk, of course, on Capitol Hill and in the president's ear. Now he's not, he's not. And is that a missing voice? Or is there no shortage of hawks here in D.C.? What do you make of what we just heard? Yeah, so the two things, Lindsey Graham is a fascinating character. I loved covering Lindsey Graham. The Republican Party may not know. Like you've heard lots of people talking about how much they will miss him on a personal level and whatnot. But Lindsey Graham, you know, he was the Trump whisper. He had an incredible ability.
to take a position, you know, pretty eventually, you know, usually who would end up in a pretty conservative position and then explain it in a very every man way. Listening to him in the Senate Judiciary Committee just cut through, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the politicking whatnot, and say, look, here's what we're going to do and here's why we're going to do it, and here's why it's a good idea. He was really incredible at that. You know, I remember. A previous Republican president, George W. Bush, it was Lindsey Graham and John McCain, who Lindsey Graham learned at the feet of, who... talked President Bush into the surge that basically saved, you know, saved the war effort in Iraq and produced the stability that, you know, 20 years later were enjoying. So as you said, Lindsey Graham has always been a hawk and always had presidential ears in terms of pushing for more aggressive action in these areas. So I'm not surprised at all that he was he was the one sort of pushing, pushing Israel. Hey, go hard, go hard, go hard. Because that was that was his role. for years here, you know, for U.S. forces too. Yeah, I thought that was interesting, him kind of pushing a Benjamin Netanyahu, Benjamin Netanyahu almost putting the pause on that. When you brought up the Judiciary Committee, he was also one of the senators that would say to the Democrats, like, I voted for all of your nominees. You know, that was one of the constant reminders of his willingness to cross the aisle in respect to president's appointment. You don't have that as much on Capitol Hill. There's just increasing, I always think that parties are tending to go further and further into their own corners. And that's why we're seeing such split, even votes for confirmations of president's appointees and judicial nominations. Elena Kagan literally mentioned that when she was appearing on Capitol Hill to defend the Supreme Court budget first time in nearly a decade that the justices have come to testify. And that was what she opened with was she said, look, you know, I remember a time when I was sitting in the Judiciary Committee. And it was Lindsey Graham who brought down the house with his humor. You know, she's Jewish. And he says, what were you doing on Christmas Day? And she's like, well, I think you're talking about the Christmas Day bomber. was talking about some cases. Like, no, I just asked what you were doing on Christmas Day. And she said, well, like most Jews, I was at a Chinese restaurant. And the whole room erupted in laughter. And, you know, Elena Kagan said, look, he managed to humanize and make me look funny. That's not an easy thing to make me Elena Kagan look funny. And he did that. And then she went on to point out that. he supported her nomination. And that, you know, and she pointed out how rare that has become now that you have, you have that crossing of the aisle. But as you said, he was willing to do that. He thought the presidents deserve some deference. And he thought that qualifications, you know, mattered to some extent. There were, there were limits to that. You know, really, somebody who was just so far outside the pale for him, he wouldn't support. And he, as you said, he used that.
that ability to be in support of, I guess you could say, common sense or mainstream nominees so that when Lindsey Graham said, I'm opposed to this, you know, it made you stand up and say, okay, this guy is beyond just sort of the normal realm of politicking. There might be something else there that you might want to take a look at. And so, yeah, no, he was very much a, I wouldn't say a moderating force because as you took from that call, he was, he could. He could push for positions that you might not consider sort of mainstream, but he had an incredible ability to just sort of be an honest broker for both sides. Yeah. And his voice will be missing this week on Thursday, I believe it is, where the acting attorney general Todd Blanche has a committee vote for his confirmation with the Senate Judiciary Committee. I know... You've written for the Washington Times about a little bit of this leading up to this vote that the anti-weaponization fund that was struck as part of a settlement with President Trump over the leaking of his IRS tax returns, that this fund was supposed to be set up for those that were dinged by lawfare from the prior administration. Many like January 6 dependents, for example, were trying to go after that. that that's been a thorn in his side throughout this confirmation process. What's your read on that? And how do you think Thursday will play? So there are, it's interesting, there are two Republican senators on that committee who are, who are particularly ginned up over the weaponization fund. They are John Cornyn and Thom Tillis, John Cornyn from Texas and Thom Tillis from North Carolina. They both happen to be Republicans who, whose seats are up this year and who are no longer running for re-election. I say that Thom Tillis, you know, announced early on he was retiring. John Cornyn had been running for re-election until President Trump came in and his opponent in the primary, Ken Paxton, and helped usher John Cornyn into an early retirement. And so two figures who don't have anything more to lose politically are demanding answers and changes on the weaponization fund. So here's the deal. This weaponization fund, the president set it up as part of a settlement with his own administration, his own IRS and the Justice Department that they would pay out $1.776 billion to, as you said, the victim. of the Biden Justice Department. It did not go over well with Democrats and many Republicans on Capitol Hill. The Justice Department quickly retreated from it. Todd Blanche, the acting attorney general who signed off on the settlement, said that it. It's more abundant. It's defunct. It doesn't exist. It won't pay out any money. The problem is that the settlement document still is sitting there in the court. And those are Republican senators I mentioned. They are afraid that the president and his family, who are also parties to the settlement, have the avenue to go and ask a court to enforce the settlement and reestablish the fund. There is some chance that you could do that through the legal process and order the court to enforce the settlement.
that spending because it's part of the settlement. So even though the Justice Department says it won't spend the money, the president could in theory sue and force the government to spend the money. So those two senators either want a renegotiation of the settlement to make it clear to basically erase the weaponization fund from the court documents so that it literally doesn't exist or in the alternative for Congress to go ahead and pass legislation officially nixing the fund. That seems like a bigger lift. So the question is, can the Justice Department reach a deal with those two senators for some sort of renegotiation that the president will also accept? Because he's part of this. And so the question is, you know, how much does President Trump want Todd Blanche as his attorney general, his full attorney general? And he willing to completely blow up the weaponization fund forever in order to get that? Yeah, and I mean, I know I looked back at his confirmation vote when he was Deputy Attorney General and he had support from those, like a lot of these Republicans that we aren't sure, like John Cornyn, Thom Tillis, Susan Collins even up for re-election. This could be an issue for her. Bill Cassidy's been someone to vote against, you know, President Trump's wish list out of. past conflicts between the two men. And another senator who has no more political skin given that he's lost his primary too. Exactly. So that'll be one to watch. I know you also, your wheelhouse, your expertise is a lot of immigration focus. And so I know you have a couple stories on the Washington Times website right now. I sneers 600,000 deportations since Trump took office. Wasn't it the administration's goal, I think, in the first year to try to deport a million. Was that right? That was Yeah, so Stephen Miller laid out that goal that he wanted to see, maybe not in the first. He wanted the pace to be a million a year. And they are, you know, and the issue is how do you count that? How do you count deportations? The Homeland Security says, oh, we're way past that if you include self-deportations, people who have left the country on their own without an actual formal removal by Homeland Security. If you only go by formal. removal you're at a level they're basically at a pace of somewhere between 400 and 500,000 a year so less than half of that million goal they've sort of settled into that if you include they include a third category so there's formal removal the actual full deportation where there's a court order or some other order that if you return after that, it becomes a felony crime. So that's, those are the formal deportations. They're the self deportations. That's sort of the lowest level. There's actually an interim level, which is a voluntary return, which is under.
under pressure, but no actual formal deportation order, you go home and it's a voluntary return. If you add those in, you get maybe another 100,000 or so per year. But still, we're far short of that million goal they said. The issue is that we saw with the former Homeland Security. Uh-oh, I think we might have lost Dinan. Uh-oh, he was on a role. He was on an immigration role for us. Yeah, so one of the things is, is it's hard to calculate these deportations in terms of the administration's numbers versus how to count also the self-deportations. I know, like, months ago, they said that they were over a million self-deportations, and I don't know if that would then play into their yearly goal. Um, Dynan also had an interesting story. I was going to try to pick his brain on. It was about DHS issuing, I think it was 84 billion, 84 billion in fines to illegal immigrants who wait to go home. So I guess there's a mechanism. My understanding from reading his reporting, I was hoping he could clarify it a little bit more, but there's a law back from the 1990s that allows, um, you know, fines for these illegal immigrants and that it would be. up to 84 billion that I guess taxpayers could collect back. And so, oh, he's back on the line. So he can explain this a little bit more than much better than I can. After all, he is my editor. Dining. Yeah, that 84 billion, that's a stunning number, isn't it? Yeah. So it turns out people who are under deportation orders but refuse to go, the government can find them, you know, hundreds of dollars a day for not going. It's rarely been done. The first Trump administration tried it a little bit and then backed off of it. This Trump administration has gone full bore on it to the point of, you know, more than 100,000 people who are defying these deportation orders have now been assessed fines. And the total amount, because it goes, it accumulates, the total amount is $84 billion. There are people who have $1.8 million fines assessed against them. And the whole point is, you know, this is the carrot and stick approach. That's part of the stick. Hey, if you don't go, we're going to sock you with this massive fine. By the way, if you go on your own, the self deportations, you've reported about this, Alex, if you go on your own through the self deportations, we'll pay for your plane ticket and give you a, you know, it was originally a $1,000 bonus. Now it's even more. They'll pay for your flight. So they're really, really pushing for the carrot and stick approach to try and get people out of the country. In particular. the people who came during the Biden administration. And there are people who've been here 30 years. They're going to be tough for the administration to get to. But they thought they had a real chance of getting rid of some of those, you know, three, four, five million who arrived during the Biden administration. Well, and Dinan, if it was me, I'd much rather be self-deported to my home country than on a plane to El Salvador for a prison, you know, I guess if you have to choose. But thank you so much for taking time to chat with me. We are up against a break. This is Alex Sawyer, Washington Times, with Stephen Dinan. Also, Washington Times. We'll be right back.
Hello, this is Alex Sawyer, editor at large at the Washington Times, in for Chris Plant, who is on vacation, cruising through the Mediterranean. I'm hoping he brings back some souvenirs for all of us. That would be very fun and nice. Probably I haven't been overseas in many years. Before COVID, actually. So I'll have to text him, remind him about that. But I have had a fun time sitting and I'm honored to replace him today and tomorrow. And I've had a great guest lineup too. I think that there's been some real good information. We just had Stephen Dinan from the Washington Times on talking some immigration numbers, 600,000 deportations since Trump took office. Looks like they're also, DHS is looking to try to find some of these illegals to collect back, I think it's $84 billion in fines. That would be great for taxpayers. He also spoke a lot about the anti-weaponization fund that it seems to be tripping up. Todd Blanche's confirmation process. And Todd Blanche's confirmation is up and before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday. They'll vote whether to send his nomination out to the full Senate or not. And there's a couple senators on there, John Cornyn, Thom Tillis. who have, you know, lost primaries aren't up for re-election that have conflicts with President Trump, who may want to be a thorn in the president's side here and object to his appointment of Todd Blanche. So it's something we're going to watch. I have Mike Davis coming up later, the show. He is someone who has followed this confirmation process very closely with the Article III project, so I'll pick his brain on that. Um, so something to look forward to. And we have Scott Pressler with early vote action joining us after the break. Stay tuned.
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