TRUE CRIME ROUNDUP: In the courtroom with D4VD and Vance Boelter, plus a Catholic preist scandal, Salman Rushdie's attacker and more

Sometimes historic events suck. But what shouldn't suck is learning about history. I do that through storytelling. History That Doesn't Suck is a chart-topping history-telling podcast, chronicling the epic story of America, decade by decade, from the 18th century to the 20th. Original music and immersive sound design accompanying us on our storytelling journey. Listen to and follow History That Doesn't Suck. An Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast. We explore crime stories reported on by Odyssey's radio newsrooms across the country. I'm your host, Lauren Barry. This week we have updates on major cases from coast to coast. These include human trafficking cases linked to the World Cup, the David Murder Case in California, a nurse who's serving prison time for killing her patients, the trial for author Salman Rushdie's attacker, a Catholic priest scandal, the JD Vance Belter case in Minnesota, and more. Belter, who admitted to killing Democratic Minnesota House Speaker Emeritus Melissa Hortman and her husband, in addition to attacking others, received two life sentences this week. However, some were hoping for a longer trial and for Belter to get the death penalty. We're also going to explore how lawmakers and law enforcement officials in Minnesota and other places around the country are trying to reduce crime. First, we have two reports about human trafficking linked to the 26 World Cup that wrapped up last weekend with Spain winning the global championship. It was held over five and a half weeks across North America, including at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. That's where the final game between Spain and Argentina was held. Here's Odyssey Station 1010 wins in New York City with one of those human trafficking reports. Relief among dozens of kidnapped victims of a human trafficking ring, which operated in the shadow of the World Cup, Investigators have been eyeing the suspects for months leading up to the games, and in the aftermath, close to 100 people fell victim, 43 of them right here in the city. Seven of them juveniles. Gary Marcus is the commanding officer of the special victims unit, says they had to go door to door, leaving their calling card with these folks. We actually knocked on their doors and made sure that one, they were in compliance with the terms of their release, but secondarily, we wanted to make sure that they knew that the NYPD was watching. And so as a result of that, you know, one of the metrics that we'll never be able to quantify is the victims that never were. And that might be the most important number that we ever talk about. The rescued victims are now in the care of the NYPD's gender-based violence police and planning unit, which provides social services now to the victims, including food, housing, as well as counseling.

And here's another report from Odyssey Station, KYW News Radio in Philadelphia. Law enforcement officials in New Jersey say their efforts to combat human trafficking during the World Cup resulted in dozens of arrests. The details from KW South Jersey reporter, Mike Doherty. For police throughout New Jersey, one of the big victories in this World Cup is the fact that hundreds of thousands of fans enjoyed matches safely. and without any major incidents. New Jersey Assistant Attorney General Catherine Callie says one of the top priorities for police heading into the World Cup was combating human trafficking, and they are especially proud of these efforts. Work that connected over 97 victim survivors with critical resources and services to rebuild their lives. and work that resulted in 71 related arrests. The AG's office also announced the arrest and multiple charges filed against 26-year-old Tamir Brown-Miller of Philadelphia and Desire Smith of Collingswood for allegedly sex trafficking a minor in Cherry Hill, Atlantic City, and Pennsylvania last year. At the South Jersey Bureau, Mike Dardy, KYW News Radio, 103, 139 FM.

Then in Minneapolis, WCCO News Talk reported on a man facing murder charges this week. Sagab Benesu is now facing three counts of murder in the second degree. He was tracked by St. Louis County deputies in the Iron Range City of Virginia early this morning. He's believed to be connected to the killings of three employees of a Highland Park apartment complex who were found dead Monday inside the leasing office. The Ramsey County Medical Examiner's office has identified the victims as 25-year-old Nancy Zambrano, 56-year-old Dina Silcox, and 43-year-old Adam Wilwarding. No details of the investigation. have been released. Taylor Rivera, News Talk 830 WCCO.

Another man facing murder charges is 20. It's Sophia with an F, Franklin with the Y, and if you're looking for some bubble gum dumb dumb podcast, then you are in the wrong place, baby. Whether I'm reminiscing on the trials and tribulations of working in the corporate world to recapping today's latest reality TV show, you're going to want to pull up a chair and stick around. It's a good time and always 100% unfiltered. listen to Sophia with an F wherever you get your podcast. T1-year-old billboard charting musician David Burke, who goes by the name David, stylized as D4VD. He was in court this week. Burke is accused of killing 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez and of sexually abusing the young teen. ABC news correspondent Alex Stone reported from the courtroom this week. He said the first day of the preliminary hearings was about laying out the case, including crime scene photos. Details that have already come out in the hearings include the fact that the Tesla where Rivas Hernandez's body was found had nearly a dozen air fresheners in it. In the gallery of the courtroom, Instagram influencers watched the proceedings. As for Burke, Stone said he didn't show much emotion, though he occasionally smiled. Dana Wright, Scott Parks, and Sam Stevie III from the Dana and Parks Show out of Odyssey Station, KMBZ, in Kansas City, discussed the case this week. Singer David was back in court today for a multi-day hearing to decide whether there is enough evidence to put him... But there is! Whether there is enough evidence to put him on trial in the killing and dismemberment of a 14-year-old girl that authorities said had threatened to expose their relationship. David, whose legal name is David Burke... entered the criminal justice center in shackles and an orange jumpsuit. The judge denied a request to unshackle him, saying that the handcuffs would be removed while Burke was at the table, but his legs would remain shackled. Prosecutors have said the evidence will show that Burke, who is now 21, brought Celeste Hernandez to the Hollywood Hills house that he was running, stab her, and then cut apart her body. Because I don't think there are certain things we should read about this, but I know how to very concisely tell you the evidence they have against him, which is beyond damning. They have proof that he ordered her and Uber from his account. He ordered an Uber to Uber her from her family home. At some point in April, to his Hollywood Hills home. That's number one. The next day after the Uber, he then went online and ordered a shovel and had it delivered via postmates. Then he went online and ordered two chainsaws. Okay, now we're getting that. Then he went online. All this having ordered it to his home.

a large blue tub body bags. That's not good. And all of this is connected to his accounts. And don't forget the commercial incinerator. I mean, Scott. That's bad. His Uber. Now, I'm sure what he's going to say, well, wasn't me. I wasn't even there. That was my assistant. He could make that argument. I don't think it's believable, but he could make the argument. Who postmates a shovel to their house? How many people were living in his home? Did he have like a little posse? I have no idea. I have no idea. Entourage is probably better. I mean, because if so, he could try to, you don't have to prove that you're innocent. You just have to cast enough doubt on the prosecutor's case where one juror says, well, I don't know, man. I mean, stranger things have happened, Casey Anthony, O.J. Simpson. I mean, people have walked free. When you think to yourself, there's no way. I mean, this evidence that you've just outlined, Dana, you're right, is beyond damning. Beyond damning. It is. It is beyond damning. I can't believe they're going to ask a judge with a straight face. What do you think? Enough evidence here. I'm going to go with yes. And what they haven't said is where's the Tesla evidence? Where is the Tesla evidence showing who and at what time did she end up in that car? And if it was tampered with, that would be a separate charge. But even if Sam, it's tampered with, it lives somewhere. Let me give an example. Today I got into my car and it said one event. And I was just curious. I clicked on it. and it was someone in the house just shimmying past my car to get to their car. At your house? At my house? It captures all of it. And I didn't even delete it. I just said, oh, that's funny. You know, ha-ha. Well, someone you knew. Yeah, I took a screenshot and went L-O-L. I see you. It captures everything. There is no way something of this magnitude happened, and it's not in some cloud somewhere. Is it stored to the cloud? Well, hang on just a second. Can you disable the cameras on your car? Um, hmm. And if so, would it not date stamp when that disconnection occurred? It would. But I think those things are always recording. I think it's like your cell phone. It's always listening. But all he would have to do, David, I can't believe I'm playing defense lawyer here. And this might be, you know, kind of a shot in the dark, is find out when or if those cameras were disabled. Because you would think if the prosecutors had all this other damning evidence, they would also say, oh, and we also have video from the Tesla of David putting the body in the trunk. Right? Yes. And they didn't say that as far as we know. What they're going to have is his cell phone, the metadata from his cell phone showing that he's there. What I'm saying is if they had that evidence, why would they not have presented it? Because I think legally they would have to at a preliminary hearing because the defense does have the right to know what you have against their client.

So if we haven't heard about any sort of video from the Tesla, that would indicate to me, and maybe I'm just spitball in here, that the cameras were disabled. If so, when were they disabled? And was he in... California or was he on tour somewhere because he did perform in Kansas City after she was killed before he was arrested? His cell phone is going to be what's damning here. By the way, dashboard and century mode videos by default are not stored in Tesla's cloud. They are saved locally on a USB flash drive. Which can be destroyed, am I correct? That is correct. Hmm. Okay. If you knew that, I'm certain it's not still in the car. He is currently held without bail. Not surprising. The defendant and the victim knew each other for several years. One of his charges is also relations with a child, by the way. I saw that today. How do you prove it? It is murder, first degree. It is abandonment, dismemberment, with cruel and unusual circumstances or something, and then also their equivalent of relations with an underage person. How do you prove that? And I'm asking out of ignorance, are there photos that he shared with that would be inappropriate? Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. His cell phone's going to end up, you know this. It's all going to be in the cell phone. Being his demise. Yes.

Back in 2024, Nurse Heather Presidy was sentenced to life in prison in the Butler County State Courthouse near Pittsburgh, after admitting to intentionally injecting nearly two dozen patients with excessive doses of insulin. At the time, the Guardian noted that the case highlighted how vulnerable patients can be in health care settings. This week, former law enforcement officer Bob Gavin, an advocate for people in these settings, joined Marty Griffin of Odyssey Station KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh to discuss the Presdy case and more. You have these nurses out there, literally killing patients. The one case for the nurse, how many she killed? 16, 17? Well, it's up 23. They nailed her for 17. All in Pennsylvania. All in Pennsylvania. Finally caught, finally admitted it, kind of acted as if they were mercy killing. She was doing it to be kind. She's a serial killer. And Bob, she popped around to like 10 different facilities and no one gave a damn, right? It was six and 11 years, six different facilities. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Why? How's that happen? How's a woman able to kill 23 people and no one seems to care? What I told you the very first time three years ago when you posed that question, the system fails. The system does not work. The ironic part is with all these investigation agencies and oversight and all that. that the 11 referrals that we sent to the district attorney's office. Yes. The two just came up down at Swickley Hospital. Yep. And all 17 of the women that we're talking about, they would not have happened, if not an employee, would have stepped forth and said, this is wrong. I'm going to report it. and there's been tons of retaliation against people who have done it. The lady that we had a few months ago with the assaults in the green tree place, the guy reported that, as he should, the staff members is required by law, suspect abuse. They cut his hours down at the point he had to get another job. Heather Presdy killed, and no one noticed. Hell, no one noticed. A nurse, another nurse, saw something that didn't make sense. She's suspect wrongdoing. Suspect wrongdoing is the key. And she reported it to the proper agencies. She was consistently disciplined for abusive behavior and improper practices, repeatedly able to resign or find new employment before red flags caught up with her. How about that? Text messages revealed she complained about patients being burdensome and intentionally overdosed them out of belief that they'd be better off dead. Hey, six facilities. Jesus. Hey, the nurse at the Sewickley Hospital.

There were two dead people. He was still on the damn job, Bob, right? Right? He's a drug addict, right? Yeah, and one of the whistleblowers was his own wife. Right on. This has been going on for years. They kept him on the job, Bob. He has still a license. He hasn't been charged with a crime. And as a Monday, his license was still active. He could go to another facility today and be hired. How many cases... There's nothing to stop it. How many cases have you brought to the DA's office here? And by the ways, the palace people have been wonderful. Absolutely excellent. Like I said, now we're up to 11 from the one we just submitted last month. And again, we go back to our thing. Hold on. Patrick has a question, but I don't know if we're set up to... Hold on. Hold on. I'll put you on. And then he'll pick you up on that line. Then Patrick will ask you the question. We cool? Go ahead, Patrick. Jump in here. Yeah, Bob is the question. Is it the system or is it these facilities skirting the system? That's the problem. It's a combination of both. There's a lot of politics involved. But here's the same, the override the same. When under the law... Employees are obligated to report suspect abuse, either criminally or regulatory. That's the law. Why don't they do it? They're afraid of retaliation. They need their job. And the amazing part about that is there is an overwhelming belief in all the cases we've dealt with, including this new one down swiftly, is the fact... They are more worried about the bad, the person reporting the bad than the bad being reported. Bad publicity is their biggest enemy. Wow. You're not going to go to that facility. If you have somebody in that facility and you get this bad press, you're going to remove them. What happens? Less money. Your administrator making $300,000 a year. You're not going to have your job if you're not bringing in the money. blatantly, cash corruption. Man, that's so hard to hear, brother. Well, these retaliation cases of lawsuits, and thank God, people, I told you, I talked about three weeks ago to one of the directors, DHS, that their referrals from nursing homes are up 36% in the last six months. And they accredit a lot of it to your program, that people are becoming aware. But the key point to protect themselves, these people need to do is they need to file it using their name. Oh. Because once you find... Hey, it's the sports junkies. If anybody knows about die-hard sports fans, it's us. We get to live and breathe the excitement of the season all year long. For advertisers, that passion matters. It's exactly why sports radio performs for brands. People who listen to sports on the radio via streaming or on sports podcasts are nearly three times more likely to consider a brand that supports their favorite team. If you're interested in reaching sports fans, we have the playbook for you. Check out our comprehensive e-book, state of audio, sports fandom. Check out state...

of audio.com. How it, you're protected. Oh. If it's anonymous, there's very little they can do. Wow. A case from around two years before Presid's sentencing saw a development this week. The Hadimatar attack on Indian author Salman Rushdie. Now, after Rushdie's well-known work, the Satanic Verses was published, Iran's former supreme leader issued a fatwa in 1989. That fatwa ordered Muslims to kill the author over the book, which referenced the Quran and Islamic faith. Matar allegedly attempted to carry out the fatwa in 2022 in the name of terrorist organization Hizbollah, when he stabbed Rushdie during an event at the Chautauqua Institution in New York State. While Rushdie survived the attempt, he did sustain serious injuries, including lasting damage to one eye. Now Matar is on trial in federal court. Attorney John Elmore joined Odyssey Station W-B-E-N News Talk in Buffalo this week to discuss the case. The trial that we're seeing right now, Hadi Matar, was found guilty in state court for attempted murder, but he's on trial now in federal court. How do these terrorism charges differ from what he was already charged with, what he was already found guilty of? Sure. When he was found guilty in Chautau County, he was found guilty of murder, and that's just the intentional killing of another person. Here, he's charged with providing material support for a foreign terrorist organization, and he committed a act of terrorism on their behalf. So it's not just a murder case, but it's a murder to show that it's part of an international, he's part of an international organization or he did it on behalf of an international organization. And he provided material support for them. So the motive for the killing, according to the government, was to fulfill. of Fatwa in 1999. It's a religious ruling because there was a book that was considered to be blasphist, blasphemy by certain Islamic groups, particularly led by the Ayatollah Khomeini, which is a Hezbollah militant group in Iran. Ruski wrote this book that was considered to be blasphemous.

And as a result, he ordered a fat quat. And that's like ordering a hit, an international hit. And so the government's theory is Hadi Matar was following orders and provided material support to a foreign terrorist organization, which would be Hezbollah, in committing this murder. John, if I can just ask you for a second here, do you find similarities at all between this case and the case of the Tops mass shooter because both are facing terrorism charges? Now, in this case, with Hadi Matar, Rushdie D didn't die, but he was severely injured. We know 10 people were killed as the result of the Tops mass shooter, but both are facing a terrorism charge. Yeah, and there are some similarities because both were found guilty in state court. Jundran pled guilty, and he was sentenced to life without parole. Matar was sentenced to 25. Both murders were ideological. Again, Matar was the Fakwa and the allegations against Jendra was that he was radicalized by social media, that he wanted to start a war. He believed in the acceleration theory and wanted to eliminate African-Americans for that purpose. There's some similarities. The main difference is that... that Peyton Jundran is facing the death penalty. And he's, uh, Matar is, he could be released after 25 years, but Jundran, pled guilty in state court without the possibility of parole. So he's going to serve life without in prison and never be released. So that's a difference. In both cases here, federal prosecutors are tasked with doing something that I feel like didn't really have to happen in the state trial, which was looking at the action. And, you know, both we can look at what happened to Rushdie. We can look at what happened in Topsin. I mean, it's clear and obvious what happened there. Now you move this over to federal court, and in both this Matar trial and in what we'll see in the Gendron trial, prosecutors have to now start to argue intent, emotive, and these things that are probably a little bit more difficult to convey to a jury. Well, I would say in the Matar case, Listening to the opening statement of the lawyer, he says the intent is a big issue. You know, was Matar just following a religious order and killing one individual? And is that an act of terrorism? They may try to convince a jury that this wasn't.

This wasn't, you know, the bombing of the World Trade Center. And that's an act of terrorism. This is just one person and he did it because... of his religion. And that's a concept that the jury is going to have to wrestle with and make a determination. In the Jenron case, again, he has been sentenced to life without parole. The biggest difference is that the jury in the Jenron case is going to have to determine whether or not. life is the appropriate sentence or whether death is the appropriate sentence, the prosecution is going to have to convince 12 jurors that death is the appropriate sentence. And if one believes that life without parole is the appropriate sentence, then that's what's going to happen. In the Matar case, the judge is going to do the sentencing. In the gender in case, a jury is going to determine sentencing. If it's death, And if it's not death, agreed by all 12 juries, then the judge would sentence gender to life without the possibility of parole. When are we looking for the Gendron trial to start right now? Well, they have a long process in picking a jury. It's probably going to be taking a couple of months. They've all received. very, very lengthy questionnaires. There's a process where a number have already been eliminated based upon the answers of their questionnaires, proving, I guess, that they couldn't be fair and impartial. But after the jury is picked, sometime this fall, late this fall, there'll be a jury that will last for a long time. There'll be two trials. One will be the guilt phase. And then if he is found guilty of capital murder, then there'll be a second phase where evidence will be presented from the defense about Jennings' background, about the reasons that he committed this crime, any mental defects that he has, his family upbrings, and things like that, offered in a way not to excuse the murder, but to convince a jury that. Death is the inappropriate sentence and that life without the possibility of parole would be the correct sentence. But they're both highly publicized and it's a sad day in America when anybody is murdered, when anybody takes a life of another person. WBEN and Buffalo also covered another case involving religion this week. James Faluzac, a former priest and abuse survivor, joined the station to discuss Father Jeffrey Noak, a Buffalo diocese priest arrested on child pornography charges earlier this month. Though it's been more than two decades since the Boston Globes reporting uncovered a large-scale system of abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests, cases like this one continue to be revealed.

According to the Department of Justice, 46-year-old NOAC has been placed on administrative leave, though complaints about the priest go back to at least 2019. Here is some of WBEN's talk with Flusak. You know, this case hearing this story. It's opening up a lot of old wounds, raising some new questions of people who have remained with the church during years now of scandal. When you heard this story, what was going through your mind? Good morning, and thanks for having me back on your air. My first reaction was absolute disgust over... the nature of Father Noak's crimes. And the descriptions that were given in the arrest filings really don't require any kind of sensationalism. They really are absolutely disgusting. And so that was my first reaction. And almost immediately as well was my recollection I think the original revelation against him having sexually assaulted seminarians was back in 2019. And it really is upsetting to me as a former priest. I really do consider myself still a priest, except I really can't function within this system as it is. When I came forward, the diocese stopped paying me, took away my residence and my health benefits eventually. And this criminal, this creep, got to have those benefits, at least partially, all these years, having... with the knowledge that he had assaulted seminarians. And so Bishop Fischer's rush to make it clear that no longer being paid or anything like that really is kind of cold comfort at this point because that should have been settled. years ago and they should have been supervising him. That was kind of the point of our news conference yesterday with Bob Hotson and Attorney Mitchell Garibetian was that this guy obviously was not adequately supervised. Right. And so many people are upset that. He was placed on administratively in 2019 and getting paid all this time and no attention being paid to what's going on with him in his mental state. But now there's a big call for the diocese to release his secret files. This is canon code. What would be possibly in those files that everyone's calling on the diocese and Michael Fisher to release?

Well, probably one of the first things, first of all, he would have his seminary evaluations. He'd have psychological evaluations from his time in the seminary. We know that the era in which he was formed at Christ the King's seminary was rife with a subculture, I think, that permitted him to act out against other seminarians. He was... He was overseen by Father Joseph Gatto, who's now on leave, a couple of times disgraced, but yet he has still been able to serve. So the earliest files from seminarian noox interactions with the diocese would be in those files. And then more recently, any complaints that were made by those seminarians that he assaulted, should be in those files. Any kind of treatment notes? If he was sent for treatment anywhere, those evaluations. Bishop Fisher, I spoke to him on Ash Wednesday, actually had a nice conversation with him when I was in town. And he said then that they can't release any kind of treatment files because it's governed by HIPAA laws, which is a convenient fig leaf for the good bishop. But those treatment evaluations, if he had any kind of evaluation done after he was put on leave, that paper trail is in his file. It is discoverable. And I think it could be subpoenaed in discovery. The diocese releasing a statement saying that they learned of the horrific allegations at the same time the general public learned of them. But it seems like that from what we heard yesterday in this news conference that a lot of people don't necessarily believe that sort of events. I don't want to speculate about that because I think that the arrest probably did come out of the blue. You know, the police, the feds would not be tipping their hand to the bishop, even under the best of circumstances. If the diocese has had a clean record and cooperative in the past, even then, those, you know, the police law enforcement would not be... keeping them in the loop. So I do believe that's probably true that they may have only found out about the horrendous extent of this child pornography that Father Nook was involved with. Yet, they certainly knew all kinds of things about him prior to that, that should have really precipitated greater supervision and greater sanctions. than what he had faced. Do you think with continued pressure, the bishop will consider releasing these? It would take a court order, and I certainly hope it gets to that point. But look at all of the pressure that we've been putting on three bishops now in the last eight or so years.

that really doesn't seem to have changed the culture. There are many good priests in the diocese of Buffalo. I know many good priests. But there is a culture, a smugness about their, I think, secret lifestyles. As a gay man, I don't want to... cast aspersions on anyone's orientation, but there's a subculture that gives culture to crime, that there's all of these secrets and blackmail going on among the clergy of the Diocese of Buffalo, that should they find out that one of their confreras is committing a crime, I don't think that they would tell. In a Minnesota courtroom, the fate of admitted killer JD Vance Belter was announced Thursday, July 23rd. He'll be in prison for the rest of his life. Odyssey Station WCCO News Talk in the Twin Cities reported on what it was like as the sentence was delivered. Appearing thin with a fresh haircut, Belter remained unmoving through tearful victim's statements. He did take the stand to apologize for causing, quote, pain, loss, heartache, loneliness, and confusion. Belter waiving his right to appeal what the judge called the longest penalty in his court's history for the politically motivated attacks against former House Speaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark and Senator John Hoffman and his wife a vet. Federal prison officials will now coordinate Belter's transfer to a permanent. facility, no word on where that will be. Notable victim impact statements came from both of the Hortman children and Hope, Yvette, and John Hoffman. Attention now turns to Belter's state level proceedings. Outside the federal courthouse in downtown Minneapolis, I'm Taylor Rivera. News Talk 830 WCCO. Dan Cook also discussed the case on WCCO, including the disappointment among some that Belter didn't receive the death penalty. Biggest news story of the day, and it's going to be the biggest news story for a while, is the sentencing of JD Vance Belter this afternoon or this morning. And if you were following along like I was, obviously there were no cameras in the courtroom, but there are various different media outlets that were sending out information as it happened in real time. If you were following along and listening to some of the victim impact statements, which are in very necessary and important part of any kind of trial situation, it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking to hear people like John Hoffman talking about violence, never triumphing over justice. The families of those impacted by this, just over and over and over again, Yvette Hoffman talking about how she genuinely believed that she was going to die. It was heartbreaking. It was really heartbreaking. And I'm glad those folks got his chance to say what they said. I'm not as impressed. I guess I didn't expect to be. But JD Vance Belter's statement to every person I have caused, loss, pain, heartache, confusion, sadness, shame, or loneliness, I am truly sorry.

I mean, again, not that I expected him to be living in any kind of understandable reality, but goodness, talking about not being able to read the room. But I wanted to focus in on one thing, because I want to ask you this question, are you mad that there wasn't a trial? Or hasn't been a trial? Because obviously now the state gets a shot at him, and it would appear Mary Moriarty is definitely going to take that shot. But Mark Hortman's father was one of the people that testified. And he said during his victim impact statement that his family was deprived, quote unquote, of a trial that they deserved. And that he had gotten blown off after asking to speak to the acting U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche when the decision about the death penalty was still being weighed. And then he turned and addressed JD Vance Belter and said that the quote unquote hottest fires of hell were waiting for. He was clearly upset that there hadn't been a trial. He wanted a trial. He wanted the death penalty. And I understand that. Anybody related to a victim of a horrific crime like this would want there to be retribution or vengeance in that sense, which is why, of course, we don't let folks in that situation make the ultimate decision, but they still get to say their peace and they should. But I'm curious if you think that we were denied something as a public, not having a trial here. If you're waiting for Mary Moriarty to put JD Vance Belter on trial in a state case because you want there to be a trial, you want that whole kind of performance isn't the right word, but you want that stuff to come out. You want there to be testimony. You want all the facts. You want all of the inside stuff. Did you want there to be a trial? Are you mad that there wasn't a trial? Because I'll be honest with you, I'm not. I understand Mr. Hortman's anger, and I understand his frustration, and I don't judge him in any way, shape, or form. I'm just speaking as a private citizen. I'm not mad that there wasn't a trial. I'm not mad that we didn't spend a bunch of money convicting a guy who they had dead to rights and was willing to cop a plea deal. And I won't be mad if Mary Moriarty works out a plea deal with Van Sbelter going forward, and there isn't a state trial. I understand why she wants to do her bit, right? Because a state conviction or a state plea agreement means that, you know, no presidential pardon or other kind of nonsense can come in and interfere with the fact that JD Vance Belter is never going to take a breath of free air ever again in his life. Convicted to two, or it was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences followed by 40 years. The man's never going to see free sunlight again, ever. And so the state can follow up and ensure that that never happens based on some silly federal decision by convicting him as well. But here's the thing. Do we really need to spend that money, that time, that potential impact on victims, right? I'm glad the victims all got to say their peace today, except for Mark and Melissa Hortman, obviously. But the folks that are still with us, that they got to say their peace today, that's important. That's a good thing. But if there's a plea deal to be worked out, I don't know that we need a trial in this situation. I certainly understand why some people want it, but I don't know that we need it. Dan, no need to spend that money. He's never going to hurt anyone again. That's good enough for me. It's kind of where I think I stand on it, Lindsay. I just, I get it. I get that we want our pound of flesh from this guy because of just how horrible what he did, what he did was, and the callousness with which he did it.

That was, of course, when we had the original plea agreement hearing, the one detail that stood out in everybody's mind is how he murdered Melissa Hortman. The specific details of following her up the stairs and just executing her was awful, was grotesque. So I get where people, you know, want some of that kind of stuff because they want to, they want to feel that justification for their anger. They want to feel that justification for the vengeance that they want. I get all of that. I just don't know that we need it. I'm not sure that that's good necessarily for anybody. Textor says I'm not at all disappointed that there was no trial for Lance for Fans Belter. It would have been weeks of rehashing only to arrive where we are now. Yeah, I sort of figure that's where we at. Cook also talked about the case with a man who called into the station. All right, so what's your take on this, Dan? Did you want to see a trial? Do you want to see a state trial? You know, it's funny that you brought this topic up today because at work, I was sitting there, I read the articles and everything that he was convicted, and I thought to myself, huh? That was just too fast, too speedy. Okay. I wanted more info, but, you know, the other thing that really, it concerns me is, you know, they give them two life sentences. And then they add on the 40-year thing. What's that all about? Just give them two life sentences, never let them see the day of light again. But to add the extra 40 years, I guess I really don't understand that. It just sounds redundant. I understand what you're saying. I think that has a lot to do with the different charges that he was charged with, and you get certain sentences based on each of the charges. Okay. I think that it's more about that than anything else. It also sends a message, right? Especially when you have a case where the death penalty, at least at one point, was on the table, and there are plenty of people out there that wanted that. This is a way to say, essentially, you're giving him a death penalty. It's just going to take us 40, 50 years to get there. Right. But he's never going to take a free breath of error ever again. And it just ensures that, I guess.

As Belter is set to begin serving his life sentences, law enforcement in Minnesota is working on ways to cut down on crime in the state. Here's one report on the subject from WCCO this week. Both Minneapolis and St. Paul Police Departments are facing a shortage of officers, which translates into potential trouble for everyone involved. Former St. Paul Police Chief Todd Axtel. If officers are going call to call to call and working. you know, 20, 30 hours of overtime every week because your staffing is short, you're going to have exhausted officers and you're going to have more mistakes. He says having enough officers matters. The more crimes you solve, less crimes you have in the future because very few people proportionally in your community commit most of the crime. Susie Jay Jones, News Talk 830 WCCO. Hennepin County Sheriff DeWana Witt also joined WCCO's Adam and Jordana show this week to discuss crime. Let's talk about the physical temperature because we have seen a brutal surge in violence all across Minneapolis, lately on St. Paul, two horrific mass shootings. The weather is heating up. Does the weather have a lot to do with the surge in violence? I think it has something to do with it, but it's not an excuse. Right? Because we're all filling the same temperature. It's not an excuse. You know, but what things or what, what's out there that will help people detour from acting in a way that is harming not only the community but themselves? You know, is there this lack of respect for your own life, for your own freedom? Because it seems to me that people just simply don't care anymore. And, you know, and we're speaking very broadly, and I think I should be very careful of that. But the people who are causing all of this. harm in this discourse in the communities, do you have any respect for your own life? Do you have any respect for the people that love and care for you? Because it's not just the person that you're aiming at to make them miserable, but you're also going to make the people who care for you miserable too. You know, I had plenty of family members who have unfortunately done time in prison. And one of the things that I would say to them is, that's your time, buddy. It's not mine. You know, it affects everyone. But I think it comes back down to do people have, do they care about their own lives? Do they have any value in their own lives, their freedom? I just don't understand this level of senselessness that we are seeing with people committing such violent acts right now. I just don't understand it. Guns, part of the problem too. Obviously, we talk about that all the time and that there are too many people who feel that way have access to firearms. And are you hopeful that anything lately and anything that is being talked about can stem the tide of that to try to find...

People who shouldn't have guns and get those guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. You know what? Yes. I can tell you, what was it? Maybe two nights ago where one of my deputies made a traffic stop. And I want to say that there were five juveniles in that car and there were several guns found in that car. You know, and it would be interesting to see what happens when those things, when those guns and those casings are processed and what else they're going to tie to. There are simply... too many people who should not have guns that have access to them and easily gets access to them. And that has to be an issue. Again, not everyone has the mentality to carry a gun. I mean, that should never be your first recourse to solving problems. We keep minimizing the ability to communicate. we keep minimizing the ability for a community to take care of our children too. You know, we have to do, we just have to do better. But yes, far too many guns in the hands of people who should not have them. We do know that, yes, there are people who are very responsible and law-abiding and careful what theirs, but we also have to acknowledge those that are not. I do want to go back to what you just said, people not having value for their own life. Now, that's not something that we can necessarily legislate, but I do think that it's something that we can teach. I have been an advocate for a long time for teaching things like anger management starting in kindergarten, meditation, starting in kindergarten, that kind of thing. You are a school resource officer. Is this something that is being taught, that should be taught, and do you think? That starting, because this is something we can legislate. What we teach our kids in public schools, and kids are mandated to go to public schools. Hopefully they do. Is this something that you think would have a generational effect on the next generation if we started teaching these kinds of techniques early on? You know what I do. I mean, we have to teach our kids about problem solving young. We cannot let them see what we're seeing on the news every day in our communities every day thinking that that is the normal way to take care of, handle your problems with violence. You know, I think about just some of the things that used to be in our schools that are no longer, including like, home economics, you know, just the basic living skills. What have all those things been replaced with? I think that we do need to be teaching our kids again, how to de-escalate, how to solve problems, how to communicate effectively, and it should start at an early age. I mean, what happens when you see a kid who has a temper tantrum? Do they get what they want? If you're giving them what they want, parents, that's not how you teach them. Because what you teach them is to have a temper tantrum and you get what you want. No, teach them how to effectively deal with whatever the chaos is in their life.

In Philadelphia, Odyssey Station, KYW News Radio, also reported on second-degree murder sentencing. It appears the Pennsylvania legislature will fail to meet a court-mandated deadline to address second-degree murder sentencing. On the eve of that deadline, the Democratic majority in the state house passed legislation on party lines rather than taking up a bill that passed the state Senate. KW Suburban Bureau Chief Jim Melward explains. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled in March that mandatory legislation. in prison for second-degree murder was unconstitutional and gave the legislature 120 days to come up with a fix. Republicans favored a Senate bill that passed last month, but House Democrats say the 35-year minimum in that bill's too punitive, noting some convicted of second-degree murder were part of the underlying crime, like armed robbery, but didn't actively participate in the homicide. House Majority Leader Montgomery County Democrat Matt Bradford says their plan allows the nonpartisan state sentencing commission to come up with a mandatory minimum. This has the support of the governor. This with one vote in the Senate can go immediately into law and deal with those very concerns that other advocates have discussed. House Minority Leader Republican Jesse Topper says the bill doesn't have Republican support and will not get through the GOP majority Senate. Lobbing bills back and forth has not really shown to be an effective way to reach a conclusion. on these kind of issues. Pennsylvania Attorney General Dave Sunday says the penalties are grossly inadequate and that it allows convicted murderers multiple bites at the apple of getting early release. And on the national scene, a court recently struck down an attempt from lawmakers in New Jersey to ban certain guns. Legal analyst Brad Young discussed this with the Dave Glover show out of Odyssey Station KMOX in St. Louis this week. U.S. Appeals Court strikes down New Jersey's assault weapons ban on AR-15s. Well, I think this is interesting because the Supreme Court's already said, we're going to take this case up in the next term about whether under Illinois and Connecticut law, they both ban AR-15s. Those are now been combined or up with the Supreme Court next term. And so in this particular New Jersey case, where the federal court of appeals. pretty much, I think, rendered the decision based on what they think the Supremes are going to do next term, which is state that AR-15 has a useful purpose. It falls in line with the historical purposes of guns under the Second Amendment, and therefore it violates any bans of AR-15s violate the Second Amendment. So I just think it's interesting here that a court of appeals... would make a decision based on what they think the Supreme Court's going to do. And you don't see that very often. Brad, probably an unfair question to ask you, but where is the current line? Like, you can have an AR-15, you can't have a bazooka. Like, what's on the bubble?

Well, the Supreme Court said in Heller, going back to 2011, that you can, and in fact, Scalia wrote that opinion. He said, you can place regulations on guns. They're not above regulation. But it has to fit within the historical purpose of guns. So I think where the line is is, is it used for what guns have historically been used for, which is hunting, self-defense, and sport? If it falls into that category, it's going to be protected by the Second Amendment. So as you said, if you got a bazooka, that doesn't fall in line with any of those three. And so I think that's, and of course, I'm simplifying a hundred-page decision in Heller into four sentences. But when you condense it down, I think that's the line. It's a fascinating thing because it seems. Just a matter of who's making the definition, right? I mean, could I not argue that a fully automatic weapon is for my self-defense? Just like a semi? Yes, yes, you could. And I think that's really where the court, because I don't see the court ever stating fully automatic weapons are going to be allowed and why. If you look back historically, wheels, people have never. owned, legally owned, fully automatic weapons. Even if you go back into the Bonnie and Clyde days, right? And we see those, those, and I've actually fired one of these, those old Tommy guns with the, I mean, oh man, you talk about a thrill. That thing's great to shoot. But even then, they were illegal. and they're illegal now unless you have a collector's license. And they've always been illegal since automatic weapons first came onto the scene. So I think you could make the argument that that doesn't fit in with the historical tradition. But your greater point is, how do we determine what is the historical tradition? And that certainly is in the eye of the beholder. Brad, you like this story. I also got to shoot a Tommy gun when I was... studying for the FBI Citizens Academy, and they took us out to the firing range, and I got to shoot a sniper rifle. And one of the FBI agents, who was a fan of the show, great guy, he put a picture of his face up as the target. And I shot him right through the eye. And he said, you got to keep this. This is your souvenir. And about three days later... I had that in my old man bag, sort of an old leather pouch, and I was flying to Chicago, and it was in there. Oh, no. And they didn't pull it out, but I'm like, what am I going to say? Like, hey, this looks like you have a picture of a human with a bullet hole through his eye. Like, it's fine. He's an FBI agent. They're like, okay. Oh, yeah. Like, that makes it okay, right? You can just come with us, sir. Put your hands behind your back. Well, thankfully, that didn't show up on the X-ray screening when it went through or else, yeah, you would have had a hard time explaining that away. Thank you so much for listening to this True Crime Roundup from the On Deadline podcast. This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Barry. Special thanks to 10-10 wins in New York. WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities.

KYW News Radio in Philadelphia, the Dana and Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, Marty Griffin out of KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, a new morning out of WBEN News and Talk in Buffalo, and the Dave Glover show out of KMOX in St. Louis. You can find these programs on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your podcasts. You can find these True Crime Roundups by subscribing to the On Deadline podcast, the Who Killed Strawberry podcast, or the Bitter Academia podcast, on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. How We Made Your Mother is a rewatch podcast that looks back episode by episode at the hit TV show, How I Met Your Mother. It's hosted by me, Josh Radner, along with series co-creator and my friend Craig Thomas. Follow How We Made Your Mother wherever you get your podcasts.