Esther Charlestin: Ready to Lead 'Hard Conversations'

It's time to get the story behind the story. Interviews with newsmakers, newsbreakers, and Vermonters making a difference. WCAX presents 802 News with Mark Johnson. Here's Mark. Esther Charleston runs a consulting business, served on the Middlebury Select Board, and is chair of the Vermont Commission on Women. Two years ago, she lost the governor's race in a landslide to Phil Scott. This year, Charleston, who's 36, is running for lieutenant governor in the Democratic primary, going up against Ryan McLaren and Molly Gray. who held the office before and is ahead in the polls. The primary is August 11th. In this edition of 802 News, sponsored by Red Hand Baking Company, Charleston discusses her goals, including her desire to facilitate, which she calls the hard conversations Vermonters need to have about issues including education and health care reform. We'll begin our discussion right after this. Big changes these days at Red Hand Baking Company. They just opened the doors at their new establishment in downtown Montpelier, a move customers have long requested. There's plenty of parking, and the pastries and other delights, like sandwiches and salads, have never been tastier. You can order online or just head in. Red Hand Bread is also available at many other fine grocery stores throughout Vermont. At Red Hand Baking Company, Randy, George, and Eliza Kane focus on quality. stopping soon to their new location on Main Street in the Capitol City. First time we've met. Yes, hi. Tell me a little bit about yourself. So I am a wife, a mother, a small business owner, and a Vermonter by choice. Moved here a few years ago and got a job at Middlebury College. I remember during my interview thinking this would be an incredible place to raise children. And I'm happy to say I was right. How did you wind up at Middlebury? Well, I got the job and I felt like Vermont could be home. So I said yes and moved myself and my two children at the time they were four and two. Wow. And started over, started life over here and got involved in community right away. And so I was saying yes to every. thing. I was on the board of the co-op. I was just getting involved having coffee with anybody who would say yes. What do you mean by starting over? What does that mean? At the time, I was leaving an eight year marriage. And yeah. So it was just me and the kiddos, and I moved here to rebuild life for us. Wow, that's a challenge. Oh, yes. You know, I laugh about it now, but that was one of the hardest, one making that decision.

And then following through, because you could think whatever you want. But doing the work of starting over in a new state with a new job and no family, yeah, it was definitely a hard decision. How did you pick Vermont? The job. Okay. Yeah, it was either Vermont or Minnesota. And so Vermont won. Okay. Both pretty cold places. Yeah. Tell me about your job at Middlebury. Yeah, so started off as a resident director and really manage student community, student spaces, and then became the assistant director of community standards. So oversaw our... I wouldn't call it discipline, but more so our process when students didn't follow our protocol or the expectation. And so I supported staff who supervised students and then met with students who were having trouble. That sounds like a pretty challenging job in and of itself. It was, was it? I mean, they had great support. So I had a wonderful supervisor. Great team and I knew everybody and so easy to work with. Yeah, the culture was great. So that made it easier. What kinds of issues were you dealing with with the students? What kind of things were coming up? A whole bunch. It ranged from... you know, academic dishonesty to maybe drinking when they're not supposed to. And everything in between. I dealt with roommate conflicts. I dealt with that. And also, you know, students who were struggling, mental health was huge. I served on on-call rotation and just making sure we're supporting. We supported the students in the way that they needed. Yeah, that seems to be a big issue among young adults these days, the mental health challenge. What do you think is going on with that? Oh, there's levels to that. It's real. It's real and a lot of times what I've learned is sometimes students who suppress things for so long and it comes out eventually, you know, or they had helicopter parents who would, you know, hover and help them work through everything and now they're in a time in their life where they have to figure it out on their own and they don't know where to begin. Or first time freedom, so they're trying to please their friends and hanging out and drinking a little too much. So it was a range. And of course, different social situations. Students, at times they can be resilient and at times they struggle. How did you get involved with...

public service slash politics yeah listen that i just want to say it um there was a time in my life where i didn't even think that was possible i i'll always remember the time i was six months pregnant with my son lawrence who is now eight turning nine next month And a student asked me to bring her to a conference. And they were talking about women in politics. Now, when you're a mom of two kids, well, you're pregnant with the second one, politics can't even, I just couldn't even fathom it. But I remember thinking, wow, where was this when I was in college? I would have chosen a different path. And so it was something that I didn't think I had access to. But. I moved to Vermont and learned of an open seat. A friend of mine who was on the select board at the time, who I didn't even know was on the select board, said, hey, we have an open seat. Would you be interested in running? You have the personality to really get to know folks, to really hear. Would you want to explore? So I said, yeah, why not? And so I started attending select board meetings, really getting support and trained by those who were already on. and understood the systems and then help me put my hat in the ring. What do you think you learned being on the select board? Things take time. I think, you know, on the select board, we're dealing with the town budget, you know, the infrastructure, the potholes, people coming in with complaints. And so really making time to listen to people to make space, but also come to a resolution and voting and budgets. It helped me understand the inner workings of how beautiful Middlebury works, you know, or any town. It just doesn't happen by happenstance. People make decisions. Like I think about the new business initiative so we can fill the downtowns with businesses. I think about the Otter Creek expansion project, the Child Care Center, which I was so happy to champion and to see that come to life while I was there. I was there a few months ago, and it's flourishing right now. So the possibilities and how we can make real life change for folks who are in our town. And we were so accessible, which was beautiful, which I appreciate about Vermont. Yeah. Tell me about your decision to your. years ago run for governor. Yeah. So. How did that come about? Yeah. So at the time, just thinking about, you know, what we needed as a state and.

A lot of folks were suspected that Phil Scott was going to run, didn't want to put their hat in the ring. And, you know, that has been the pattern a lot of times. Or people who were perceived as you can beat him. You know, we're like, hey, I'm going to wait. Wait until my turn. So learning of those inner workings and also understanding that it's important that we take a stand because has he been the best leader? Is Vermont better where? Are we better now than we were when he started? I'm not sure we are. And so taking a stand was important. That's a, I mean, that's a huge step. It's a huge job. How did you feel like you were qualified even to do that? Well, I... It depends on who you ask, right, about qualifications. Because I think about the mayor of New York right now. It was his first time running. And listen, he's done a lot more for the people in six months than his popularity, his, you know, just people feeling like they're getting things done. So to get things done doesn't mean you need to, I guess it depends on who you ask. So my experience ranged from, at the time, higher education, public schools, and feeling like that was enough and having people behind me who would support because the governor is one person, but it takes a team. And so if you come in as a dictator, you won't last too long, but it takes the village to make the state go round. And I knew I wouldn't be alone in that. How did you feel the campaign went?

As I think about the campaign, as I think about that experience, I think making it through the primary was great. And then the support I needed to make it through the general in different aspects wasn't there in the ways that would have been helpful. Yeah. So it was definitely a lot of learning. Tell me more what you mean by that. I would say the, I was disappointed in the party and they're under new leadership now and so things may be different. But yeah, just the way we could have rallied in such a powerful time. And the thing too is, I mean... There were so many people who took hits, right? There was a red wave, and a lot of people lost their seats. So it wasn't just about the governor's race. I mean, Dave Zuckerman, who's been in, you know, also lost his seat. And some, a few senators had in reps. So it was like, down the ballot was tough for Democrats. Mm-hmm. So. And, you know, as you mentioned, you can have. You can have insights, you can have growth, even out of... not positive successful results. Oh, absolutely. And I'll be honest. I think you learned the most from the lows than you do the highs. Amen. Because you have a chance to really reflect on what worked, what didn't work, and where the gaps were. And you spend more time doing that. And I know I did the last two years as I reflected on my experience and how I wanted to show up now. Tell me what you learned. I learned that it takes a village to make it work. I learned that making sure your family is good is really, really important. So I am now a wife again to a wonderful partner who, you know, we've been together five years and we've created a beautiful family. with my children and just created a beautiful community here. So making sure that they are a priority is really huge. Health isn't really important. I had a lot of health issues during that in 2024. Then I suffered silently. And there was a cost to that of being sick. And then... You know, my family, it took a toll on the family, and having to rebuild that has been really important. So I've done a better job balancing my family, balancing the campaign. And so, yeah, I'm grateful for that because my children are, you know, happy and have their own lives too, and my husband does too, where the campaign is not the center, but a part of our lives. And then we have family time.

And we keep that sacred. Are you comfortable talking about the health challenges? Yeah, I mean, I haven't, I've never talked about it. So, yeah, I'll be open. Yeah. So, I mean, it was, I had, I had. fibroids which are tumors in the uterus and it was as if I was 20 weeks pregnant and it just took up a lot of space it was very very painful and you know shortly after the election had to go into surgery My doctor wanted me to have surgery a lot sooner, and I held off, and I was in a lot of pain most of the time. And so, but I masked it well, which is not always a good thing to suffer in silence in that way. And so, yeah, most of the debates I was in, I was in severe pain, but pushed through. Yeah, I was barely holding on. And yeah, it was a really tough time. A lot of it was like a blur because I was in so much pain all the time. And I remember talking to someone who was like, hey, why don't you share this experience? But I was like, I'm not sure. You know, in the middle of it, it can be so sensitive. But it's an issue that a lot of women deal with, a lot of women who suffer through it, who maybe ignored their signs or just push through pain. And that's something that I wouldn't want to encourage and encourage for folks to get the checkups they need and really follow their doctors' instructions on what will help make them better. And health challenges can be an incredible growth opportunity too. Yes. It really can. It really can. It actually brought connection as I met with other folks who were like, listen, me too. But I was able to hear them and create space for them in ways that, you know, when you go through something, you're able to. Well, I'm able to make space and just hear them because I've been through that experience. When you're in pain constantly, it is not a way to live. It's really not a way to live. Thank you for being willing to talk about that. It's a very personal experience, I'm sure. Yeah. Yes. If I may be so bold, let me ask you something else. What has your experience been as a person of color here in Vermont? Good question. We will get to the lieutenant. Yes, yes. No, good question. And thank you. And I, I, it's been, it continues to be a journey.

I only know how to be a black woman because that's who I am. That's how I present in the world. My parents are from Haiti. I'm Haitian American. But when I come into a room, nobody's thinking about that. What they see is a black woman. And so being met with, one, there's so much bias, you know, and the judgment, before I even open my mouth, assumptions are made about me. And I've been in rooms where before they even met me, they're asking, am I the help? You know, they're giving me instructions. And so, and I had a friend of mine who was like, I don't even know how to help you through that. I don't know what to say. And, yeah, you get those cuts long enough. Yeah, they, it's. It's something that I have to continue to work through, work through the judgments and how I'm perceived. And people are, and then I'm a person of color. I'm a black woman who is taking up space, right? I'm running in this race. I've run for governor. You know, I'm on. I've been appointed to the Vermont Commission on Women. I'm currently chairing it. Like, I'm really doing this, you know, unashamed. At times, people struggle with that. People, and I could. I could feel it. The empath that I am, I think of, I could feel the discomfort of folks. Because as soon as I introduced myself, it's like, oh, okay, hey, how's it going? And then when I say I'm running for office and then I'm running for lieutenant governor or even when I was running for governor, it's like the shock and the discomfort of like, who do you think you are? And for me to work past that and not allow that to define me. And what I do is I often think about those who came before me. You know, where I'm sitting right now, my great-grandparents. never dreamed that this would be a possibility, right? My grandparents even never dreamed that this would be a possibility. I'm running for public office in the great United States. And I was the Democratic nominee in the great United States. And that I have, you know, I have two masters. I've been able to start my own business. Like I'm really living the dreams of my... ancestors well you know some have passed but some are still here who are like it's incredible and so that's the fuel that i use to to move past that and my children of course they creating a world where they can thrive and being a part of a vermont that they can

choose to stay if they want and feel like they can build a beautiful life here. What do you have a master's in? So I have a master's in corporate communication and public relations and then a master's in teaching. And tell me about your business. Yeah. So I am an educational consultant. I work with schools, nonprofits, and really help them move. from stuck to forward, facilitating hard conversations, professional development, holding space is a lot of what I do. And so conversation compass I started a few years ago. And it has been a joy to help people navigate different spaces. Wow, that sounds like a really challenging job. It is. It can be. I mean, there's beauty. when we work past it, work through it. And then there's... There's the awkward hard moments. There's where you're like, okay, where do we go from here? And so acknowledging it, taking space, you know, taking some, you know, pausing the meeting or pausing a conversation to take some time to then regroup. Using all those skills to create space where we can move forward has been my work. Wow. Being able to help people work through issues is. really valuable. Absolutely, absolutely, especially in communities where they're feeling like we don't care. You know, when I think of the Northeast Kingdom, but they're not the only communities that feel a disconnect, but it's like people only come when there's an election or there's something, but do you remember us the rest of the year and creating that trust in community? I mean, we're small enough where this is possible and we can make it happen. That certainly came through the last legislative session with the rural communities saying. Oh, yes. What was your observation and take on that pushback? Well, I was proud. One, proud of our communities saying, you know what, this doesn't work for us. And have you thought about this? And this is the gap that I, the gap that I saw was. the people closest to the issues weren't at the table, weren't even considered. Because if somebody just asked, well, what does this look like for you on an everyday basis? What would that mean that your driveway? You know, just all these details of people who are living these policies, where are they? Because we can imagine what we want and we can have these big dreams, but what about the people who are living it? They can give us some great insight. And so as lieutenant governor, feeling like it's important to always ask those questions and create space for folks to name what's missing. Tell me about the work on the Vermont Commission on Women. What are the issues today that you're dealing with in that job?

Well, that work has been, one, a joy meeting commissioners from... all across the state. So people with different lived experiences and what they see in different jobs, but also the work that we're committed to. And one of the things I think about is paid leave. We are part of the paid leave coalition is something that we've been fighting for for years and we're still fighting. And that's the biggest thing that I've learned in government. It takes time to move the needle. And so really taking the time to build those relationships, to really continue to fight and not be weary, but to persevere and just find the people who are like-minded, who you can just really persevere with. And so that looks like going to the hearings during the legislative session, sending our executive director to testify on behalf of women and gender expansive folks has been powerful. So that is... That's one thing that we've definitely made front and center in our work. Why lieutenant governor? Well, as I think about my experiences, so for the last 15 years, I've facilitated hard conversations, whether it be in higher ed with college students or as an administrator. Or as an educational consultant, really helping folks move through the conversation. I see Lieutenant Governor, I mean, you preside over the Senate, you put senators on committees, you're a part of that process, you're the tie-breaking vote, and you have the opportunity to convene. And so I've seen that done well, bringing people together and really talking about what's needed. I've seen it done well with Lieutenant. Governor Stratton in Illinois. She's been Lieutenant Governor for a few years now and she's done amazing work when it comes around maternal health and the way she's been able to bring people together. I mean, she's been able to bring resources, have people covered for doulas and midwives and really get the conversation going. Supporting people in and across the state and moving that forward. And so for me, my vision as Lieutenant Governor is to convene, bring people together around the issues, help us talk through them, making sure people closest to the issues have access and being a bridge in that way. We know our legislators, they don't have paid staff. So they can get all the help they can get. As far as connecting with constituents would be really, really important. So I envision, I think about the Home Act that was passed in 2023, right? That allows us to build in our downtown areas and village centers. So convening looks like bringing the builders, the town, the conservation.

groups together that usually talk past each other to talk to each other and then talk about the hard truth a lot of our downtowns are in floodplains And this year is your, yeah, the third anniversary of the floods that happened a few years ago that devastated communities. And some of those communities haven't been able to rebuild in the same way. And so having the hard conversation of, okay, how do we rebuild? You know, yeah, we can build in these downtowns, but do we do it in a floodplain? Is that how we create a Vermont where we're thriving? And so facilitating those conversations is really, really important. And where I see the lieutenant governor can be a bridge. How do you do that as lieutenant governor? I mean, how do you call people in? I mean, because that can be a challenge. I mean, you've got people sometimes with a bit of an ego who don't really want to be told what to do. Oh. Well, that I respect. I've learned a couple jobs ago, coming into a community and telling people what to do who've been in that community never goes well. And so my approach is different in that I would go and have partnerships. in those counties of people who are there every day and doing the work every day and then having them with our office bringing people together and convening and making sure that we have an ambassador in each county to really make sure that we're capturing all that's needed and that we're connected to our office that is how I would go about it not alone and I wouldn't go in with my bright ideas because guess what people don't really hear that And so making space for what I hear the community needs and then connecting with partners in those communities already doing the daily work to really get the word out and to connect us to community and work together to bring solutions. You're building coalitions. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And we're in a time right now where folks are open to that. That's what they want to see. I mean, the grassroots movement in Vermont has been incredible. And all the different groups that are popping up of folks saying, I want to engage and I want to figure out an avenue to do it. If they can't find it, they start something. That gives me hope. Do you feel that Vermont is unaffordable? Yes. And for a lot of people, you know, and part of my traveling hearing stories of folks who are working several jobs to make it work, who are having to make hard decisions between rent and like groceries, gas even. Oh my goodness. You know, if you have two cars, you know, commuting like that, all those costs add up. And I've met a few folks who do leave, who say,

This is just not sustainable for our family, whether it be young families. And of course, a lot of young folks who graduate who are just like, this is not going to work. One, I don't have a place to live. And two, I need a job. And so having those avenues. not available, you know, folks leave. And right now we have an aging population. Yep. And so 20 years from now, if we don't care about this, you know, if we don't pay attention to this, it will bite us in the future. And so it's important to create, I believe create pipelines that are actually already there. I'm thinking about the trades and how important those things are, those programs. There's a program called Trailblazers for women who want to learn the trades and get training. And so there are things that we can do. do to help that pipeline of like young folks staying, but also those who are aging to stay as well. Some folks want to keep their homes. What I've heard on the road is there are folks who are house rich and cash poor. They are on a fixed income. And the goal is to keep people here to make sure everybody can thrive. And what that looks like for different people is different. Okay, for young families, it's buying their first home, making that. accessible to them and for those who are on a fixed income i was talking to somebody earlier today who's like hey i'm 80 years old she's fabulous she's doing great 80 she has a part-time job and she's rented out like two parts of her house to like make it work because yes the house is paid off but what about the taxes the value has gone up and and she's just trying to sustain and she's like i'm 80 i i still need to work you know and that's That's not okay. And so how do we build a Vermont where, again, people, we can meet people where they are. Okay. So, but how do we, how does Vermont do that? Because I think about issues like, the schools. Yes, yes. And, you know, you've got these communities that don't want to lose their school. At the same time, you know, there may not be that many kids in the school. And I think about this sort of catch-22 that some people are in where you want to attract more young families to your town. People are talking about closing your school, which would just make that problem much more difficult. At the same time, you know, you don't want to have schools that have not enough kids either to make it a thriving experience. Well, I've visited a lot, some communities where one in particular, I think, of ripped in, who they no longer have a school. They did not have enough students in their school district. And I remember a few years ago, they fought really hard to not consolidate. They fought really hard. And then ultimately, they had to. And so the biggest thing is, I think the legislature is onto something, you know, putting together a committee to really suggest.

propose consolidation where we can consolidate bringing it to the local level so that folks are able to vote on it but the reality is we can't keep those schools open that don't have a lot of students and but we also need to talk about a lot of towns without a school the heart of the town is like missing and so how do we keep those towns going and vibrant and in ripped in They're doing a co-op together. They're figuring out the old school where the old school is located. They're thinking about, okay, maybe we can do housing there and other opportunities. So being creative. But yeah, it is. I think the biggest thing to remember and what I would like to be a part of is making sure we're bringing communities with us. Because we're at 119 school districts. I know years ago, the governor proposed five. So forcing consolidation is not the way to bring communities along, but we're headed in the right direction where we still have some local control, but also folks who are making the... hard ask, hard thinking it through of, okay, where can we consolidate and how do we do this and then bringing it to local. But it is hard. It is a hard thing for a lot of communities. But moving it at the, I think a policy moves at the speed of trust, bringing communities with us as we make those decisions is crucial, especially in a small state where we. all know each other. You know, what I've been hearing from you throughout the course of this conversation is that you see yourself as a facilitator. Absolutely. So what's missing, I guess, from how the state is approaching things like how many schools we have? I mean, what needs to be added into this process as opposed to this is what we're going to do or you have to do it on your own? Mm-hmm. Do you understand what I'm saying? I believe so. I believe we're already on our way to that because we are in a place, I think, of H955, where, okay, we're going to bring a group together to... show us what consolidation can look like and then still bringing it to the local level so people living in that area can make a vote and so we're balancing those two what's missing right now is the truth is we're kicking the can down the road if we want to talk about the hard stuff because the numbers are still going down year after year. And so it just feels like the solution isn't immediate. And that's how government works at times where the solutions.

Take time. And so a balance is needed there. As lieutenant governor, again, what I would do, I talk about being a bridge, but also being an advocate, right? Being in the state house and being connected to constituents. And as things are bubbling up, really bringing it front and center. And so with schools, it's like, I mean, they're even talking about a funding formula, doing that differently. And as lieutenant governor, it's making sure that the student needs are at the center of the formula. And it's not just about, you know, money, right? We're saving money. Okay. But let's not forget what our students need because we have to prepare them for. tomorrow for them to be able to thrive and making sure that teachers' voices are at the table as well in the decisions because we can't lose our teachers who, you know, work day in and out to really make sure our students are good and ready. You're a small business owner. How do you have health insurance? My husband. My husband is through his job that I'm able to have health insurance. I mean, if not for that, I mean, I would be having a different conversation. Definitely. And as I traveled the state, I've talked to folks who, you know, families who all three children are on Dr. Dinosaur and parents don't have health insurance. Their primary care is the emergency room. Yep. Which who ultimately pays for that? We do. Right. And or people who their bill has gone up who, you know, $26,000. Like some people can swing that. A lot of folks can't. You know, folks are like a paycheck away or two paychecks away from really things exploding. So I'm grateful that my husband has insurance through his job. And I recognize that not everybody has that. And there's a lot of small business owners who don't. What's a better way? Amanda Genu running for governor has talked about. universal primary care by increasing taxes yeah universal primary care i'm definitely really in support of and as i think about health care being a right for folks i think about our green mountain care board has already done the work the research because we love data we love us some data and so the data's already there and how do we just take act 48 the promise of health care and make that a reality for folks. I think that would be a game changer. So yes, it's something that I would absolutely support and be open to thinking about, okay.

Can we make it happen regionally, you know? Can we do something regionally? If we can't, it's not going to happen nationally, right? Regionally and then what can we do within state to make that a reality? So I would support that and be a part of that conversation to help move it forward because I do believe it's important. And would you fund it the same way she's talking about? I would be open to funding it that way. Yes. Yes. I'm not sure I know what that means. Yeah, no, I believe that. Would there be another way that you'd rather do it? No, I would support her. Yeah, support her in that vision. Who are you supporting for governor? I'm excited that two women are running. And their approaches are different and experiences are different. Amanda Janu and economist. And then Ali Richards with the experience of Let's Grow Kids for the past 10, you know, she did it for 10 years and the major success that was in seeing that. So both of them, I'm excited for both of them to. to run and the goal is to beat Bill Scott. How would you describe the job that he's doing? And I guess let me ask it this way. How much do you hold him responsible for increases in health care costs, increases in housing, increases in school taxes? Is it him? Is it the legislature? Is it? Is it out of everybody's control? Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing I will say is Phil Scott's approach with the legislature. It feels like they're like enemies and not really working together in the same way. I think there's a lot of opportunity for that. We'll get a lot further together than apart. And so that is. That is where I feel like he could do and do it better. Do it better. Really try to meet with folks and meet in the middle and work through the work through during the legislative period more so than that the veto approach of just shutting things down. would be my critique. His argument would be, I'm guessing, that the legislature is making things even more unaffordable. How would you respond to that?

Yeah, I don't take that as an answer. You are the head of state. You know, there are things that you can do. And my experience has been he's run on affordability, yet since I've been in Vermont, that has not, that is not where I feel the lightest. You know, Vermont is becoming a lot more just expensive to be here and to live. And again, traveling the state, talking to different people who are like, I got to go. I can't find housing or I, it's just not possible for me. There are those who have support. Or I hear stories of folks who have homes and they're like, my kid wants to come back, you know, and bring their family here. They have no place to go. They're in my house trying to figure it out. What if you don't have that support? And so he's run on affordability, but I haven't seen it or felt it. And as I travel the state, that's not what I'm hearing. And he's been there a while. I believe he can do more. What can Vermont do to make housing costs approachable and reachable for your kids and my kid? Honestly, us having different options as far as housing, like having a studio or, you know, if somebody wants to, you know, create, I think about above their garage or, you know, a lot of our... regulations zoning regulations locally don't really match what we need and we also are fighting people's perception of this duplex can't happen in my backyard you know if it's not a single family i don't feel comfortable and so there's a lot of things that we're fighting but having more options you know being creative What if we had a tiny house community of, you know, young folks or people who are transitioning? I think of folks who are retiring here and sold their house and just like, hey, I just want a small place. I actually met a teacher who, yes, sold everything. It was living in Florida and then came here. It's teaching here. And just wants a small space, you know, a small studio. Just. for herself and her cat, you know, but not having those options. So a variety. So not everybody's coming in as like a full family, but it could be a single person or people who, there's folks who don't want children, right, and are open to having different housing options. So making sure that we can have those housing options and in a lot of places that's not an option currently. So you're living in South Burlington now? Yes.

And so what could be done in a community like South Burlington? Well, I mean, South Burlington is booming as far as creating different options for folks. Still, you know, still pricey. But I was just going to say, you know, yeah, still pricey. But they have rentals. They're building a lot, making. Yeah, creating a cozy space for folks. But again, still, they're expensive. I don't know how else to say that. But they're still an expensive space. You're going up against a couple of opponents in this race, including Molly Gray, who served in the office before. The latest polling, and the polling even from a month ago, shows her very much ahead. Does that discourage you? No. No. Why not? Well, I haven't seen the poll from yesterday yet, but we still have a lot of folks who are still undecided. And those are the folks that I focus on. How are you trying to reach them? What's your strategy to get known? get in front of people, convince them that you're the right person. Yeah, well, house parties are still happening. It's still a thing. I actually have one tonight. And so meeting people in their communities has been the biggest way of me sharing who I am and what I'm about, doing meet and greets, and having people right in their front porch forums about who I am. Because Vermont, I mean, Chintin County has its own life, but around Vermont, it's really like, what does your neighbor think, you know? And word of mouth. And so, honestly, postcards, and that's how I'm getting the word out. How successful do you think you're doing right now? I don't even think about that.

My mind goes into like, what do I need to get done? Um, I... Yeah, I... Right now, I would say, you know, I still have work to do. I have three more weeks. I can't waste time. And the work is to continue to be out there, knock on doors, and be present in communities. What is it going to take to get your numbers up and... Try to catch up with somebody who's got much higher name recognition. It takes money, right? I mean. Money's helpful. Money's absolutely helpful. How are you doing on that front? Well, I have a grassroots campaign. And so approaching it that way has been my work. Mm-hmm. So when you do it that way, money is not the center. It's the people you have around you. It's volunteers and it's folks getting the word out on your behalf and you doing the work showing up in different communities knocking on doors. That's the crux of my work. The biggest thing is, yeah, my approach to this job is... community grounded leader facilitating those hard conversations ones that we really need right now and making sure people closest to the issue always have a seat at the table and not always waiting for folks making a table in Montpelier and expecting folks to arrive, but meeting people where they are. And that looks like going into those communities, having different partners and within those communities to make sure that we represent all. As I think about the mistrust right now with government. with people not feeling like they can trust. You know, one of the conversations I had as I've been traveling the state was with a woman who grew up in Vermont, raised two children in Vermont in her 50s, and never voted. And I wish I could say she's the only one, but there we have a vast number of people who don't even engage. And so... I believe it's important to make an effort to engage those folks. You know, from that conversation, she's going to vote in the primary, which I'm so proud. And that was one conversation. But there are a lot of folks who don't feel like it matters and it really does. Helping move that along is important. That seems to have been a problem for a long time now in this country that a lot of people are giving up, feel that what they view things doesn't matter.

I'm really, I'm discouraged by that. Well, I mean, the system doesn't really encourage folks to engage. I mean, unless you have parents who, parents are a community who, you know, teaches you and helps you to understand how important it is. If we're relying on the outside to let folks know, and then you have just systems put in place. You know, where I think about different states where they're throwing out votes and, you know, and people are like, I've stood in line all this time. And so people are just tired and fed up. And so, but letting folks know or helping them navigate engaging locally. where, you know, that impacts their every day would be part of that work. That wraps it up for this edition of 802 News, sponsored by Red Hand Baking Company. Thanks for listening.