Could Trains Topple This Crumbling Warehouse? Plus, the Lloyd Center's Wild Goodbye and a Moda Center Deadline

I'm Hello, everybody today on CityCast Portland. We're looking back at the Lloyd Center's bittersweet final weekend. We're also looking ahead to this week's negotiations over the future of the Modus Center and breaking down the latest in the aftermath of the Centennial Mills Warehouse Fire. I'm your host, Claudia Meza, and with me, our Kibu News Director, Althea Billings, and our very own executive producer, John Ataryani. My friends, how are you doing this morning? Hey, good morning, Claudia. Hi, good. I'm happy to be here. Nice. I usually kick things off with an opening question so any new listeners can get to know our guests a little better. And today's is based on the Lloyd Center's final swung song on Saturday, which brought out thousands. And I mean thousands of people to say goodbye. Like the only way that Portlanders can say goodbye. The plan was like open them all as usual. All the stores were going to get their final day of business. But it was also jam-packed. And I mean like jam-packed with community events and activities. People were dressed up. It included a final performance by Lloyd Center rink regulars Jerry and Talley Leonard at 6.45 p.m. And that was going to be like the final. final thing. Isn't that so sweet? Like their final dance. For those who don't know, like these two have been figure skating at the Lloyd ring. Like if you had ever gone to the Lloyd Center Mall, you saw them too. Because they were always dressed the same. You guys know who I'm talking about, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I saw so many videos. This was like one of the only times where I could tell that like everybody I know in Portland was at the same event. Because my Instagram feed, I'm like, oh, Claudia's there. Oh, Brianna's there. Oh, like so and so is there. So I've seen many angles. of their ice stands, which was so beautiful. Yeah. It was just so awesome. So I was going to ask if any of you got a chance to swing by, but I'm guessing John did not. Althea, did you get a chance to? Yeah, I was there. I was there for a little bit. It had this sort of like friendly lawless vibe. I was there later in the afternoon. Yes. Sort of a friendly lawlessness. Yeah. Everybody's like drawing on the walls talking about how they don't want Lloyd Center to be closed down or writing something inappropriate. Everybody was stealing plants. I don't know if you saw that. All of the decorative things. That's what I heard. Everybody's like ripping apart the snake plants.

the ZZee plans and like walking out. Did you? So, and in the beginning of the day, there were, so there was a lot of security there to make sure that things didn't get out of hand. But they were pretty chill. Like they were letting people write on stuff, you know, but they were pretty like. honed in on like nobody steal plants by 5.30, 6, 6. They just stopped because there were so many people just trying. It became like everybody wants a brick of the like Berlin Wall. It became like that. Like everybody wanted their clipping of the Lloyd Center Mall plants because there's so many. And of course everyone's like, what's going to happen to them? They're going to, you know, they're going to bulldoze this thing. But I guess the plan was they were going to get. donated. We don't know where they were supposed to get like that's why they were protecting them like they were supposed to go somewhere and instead Portlanders were just ripping out my favorite thing that happened at the mall that day two things. The first is my partner getting my cousin and I to distract a mall cop. Like cartoons, we were literally pointing at things for him to look at while she went to go get a clipping. She doesn't do these types of things. She got so, she freaked herself out, thought that the mall cop had turned around, ran into a wall, glasses fell off, start like so much noise. We were all like, what the hell? Even the mall cop was like, are you? Like, what is going on? Nobody cared. I couldn't stop laughing you guys. It was like. It was so funny. It was so freaking funny. Anyhow. A perfectly fitting end for the wind center. It was beautiful. So let me just list a few things that also happened that day to give you a scope of what Althea and I are kind of talking about. Okay. So first things first, of course, the Food Court 5,000 mall walk happened. It was the last one and I guess like 200 people showed up like something crazy. There was also, and this is kind of sweet. The Portland Chess Club had its final tournament because I guess they were headquartered in the mall, which was really cute. There was also a food court festival. They were calling Lloyd Fest later in the afternoon, which had like live music, comedy, poetry, karaoke. So pretty much like every floor had something going on. There was also the Lloyder Palooza, which was, this was really cool, you guys. It was like an open invite vendor fair, meaning you could, if you just brought a little table and like some stuff to sell, you could just set up and do business. They were just like, whatever. What are you going to do? Close his down. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. So there was also, like, mall tours, a pedal paloosa funeral bike that was looping around the mall's various, like, parking outdoor and parking structures. The naked bike ride actually stopped there in the, so sweet. They didn't get inside of the mall, which would have been awesome. They were like outside. Santa con showed up around two. So many summer Santas. And that's just like literally a few things that happened. My favorite thing was there was this, somebody dressed up like a glittery grim reaper. They even had like a scythe and they looked the happy.

They look so good. And they, along with like, I don't know, like 50 or 60 of us, were kind of drawn to this choir that started playing. And I found out later that they're called Spirit Machine. They set up on the first floor at the very end in an atrium. So like they had all three floors of reverb, you know. It sounded so. And I like took videos. It was beautiful. It was like so beautiful. And then like I would look and it was just like this glittery grim reaper just enjoying the music. And y'all, I saw so many goths. Yeah. And it made me realize. Where are the mall goth's going to go now? Yeah. Hyaneer place. That's not a goth mall. I saw generations of goths. Like it was like goth families with their goth children in the freaking wagon dragging them along. Oh my God. It made me realize, like, I'm like, I haven't seen a Gothen like ages, you know? It's summer. Yeah. Well, they're hibernating. That's why they're at the mall. Anyhow, so my question to you two is what is your favorite Lloyd Center memory? I think mine is now this like bittersweet final day. It kind of proved how much we yearn for community and like how good Portland is at creating it. Like, we literally made something out of, like, nothing, including stealing snake plant clippings. Like... So my personal favorite memory is probably my last experience. I was there about a month ago, and it was so delightful because the mall really was pretty empty. A lot of the tenants had left, but like there was still a handful of people there. And I'll remember there was this one person who was sitting there in the mall in like a pretty abandoned hallway, just painting, just like painting a portrait of the mall in like the last month of its existence, which was so profound and lovely. But I think my favorite, this is something that I didn't ever. actually do, but my favorite era was the secret roller disco era. Do you remember like four or so years ago when they were doing pop-up roller discos at the abandoned marshals? To me, that was like Peekloid Center. Just that sentence. Hey, secret roller disco at the abandoned marshals. You know where it is. Yes. What about you, Althea? Well, I think going on the last day will loom large in my memory. And especially there were so many people there. And at the same time, it still felt spacious. Like, why did we ever build a building that big? I can't really wrap my head around it. It's so huge. Everybody in their mother was there. I saw old coworkers. I saw city counselors. I saw like so many people that I know were there. And still there was room. to hang out to like set up your own thing you could loop the parking lot as many times as you wanted and there were still spots which was just wild but i think mine is just like goofing off with my friend tammy and like eating pretzels and having fun in the photo booth you know like that's kind of what i remember of of lloyd center

Yeah. Well, R.I.P. Lloyd Center is definitely one of those things where, like, you don't know what you got until it's gone. You're like, you guys, we could have been doing this this whole time. But I think there was just a hint of like uncontrolled lawlessness, as Altheo was saying. It was like, beautiful. Like, do what you want, but just keep it cute. You know what I mean? Amazing. And everyone did keep it cute. But keep a cute. Dude, it was so funny. She also like jumped on a pedestal. It was like, I can't explain it. But like she became more visible. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like why? All right. Thank you both for your answers. And just real quick, I want to let you all know that we are helping sponsor Burger Week this year. That's Portland Mercury's Burger Week. There's a video coming out shortly. I got to try six of the burgers with Catherine Chew Hamilton, who's going to be on the show tomorrow. Anyhow, Burger Week, just wanted to shout out. I think it's my favorite food week. And the Portland Mercury has been doing an awesome job, you know, putting this together. So just. Yeah, and they have veggie and vegan options. So I just wanted to throw that out. Well, let's take a quick break here. And when we come back, Althea is giving us a briefer on what to expect this week in the upcoming modus center negotiation.

All right, Althea. I guess a lot is happening this week with the Modus Center negotiations, because I remember last week, at least for the city council, on that city council level, there was just a lot of people coming up and testifying. And I know that also, like the county also had some meetings, but what's going on this week that we need to like keep an eye on? Yeah, this week, August 12th. Oh my God, August 12th. Sorry, everybody's been saying August 12th. They... have made a commitment, the Portland City Council, to get the term sheet finalized on Wednesday the 12th. They've like locked out a bunch of their time in the schedule to do this. But yeah, like you mentioned last week, they were hearing a bunch of testimony about this. There were 19 amendments proposed, all of which failed. There's a marathon meeting coming Wednesday. I was looking at reporting from Alex Volodymyr Zelensky over at OPB, who gave a little briefer on kind of what are some of the big things to keep an eye on during this term sheet negotiation that is happening Wednesday. And also to one of the things you mentioned, Claudia, that last week, Multnomah County passed their version of... funding for this and their stipulations as well. So Portland is the last one's there. Yeah, that one did pass. Four to one. Can we just pause there real quick? Yeah. Because something that I found really interesting with the county was that Megan Moyer pointed out, she was the only person who voted no on that. like whole thing, but she just pointed out that their negotiator, and I didn't know this, but their negotiator that was, you know, negotiating on behalf of the county was also on the board of a nonprofit that was essentially lobbying local governments to fund the motor center. And it didn't, and it just seemed like such a conflict of interest. Like there's this amazing clip where she's just like, isn't this illegal? Shouldn't this be illegal? I'm not to like derail what you're about to lay out, but I just wanted to throw that out because like I really want to talk about that. Like bookmark. Wild. Wild that that happened. Also there was reporting from the Oregonian over the weekend that some of the folks testifying in favor of funding the Moda Center were paid to do so, which is also. interesting in its own right. By whom if? That's a good question. Let me pull that up. The county negotiator. Is that a part of the We Are Rip City campaign funding structure? Oh my God. Wait. What was that? Yeah. So there's this coalition of local businesses called We Are Rip City that has been doing a ton of sort of grassroots and behind the scenes work on this. That's the group that Alyssa Gary at the Oregonian had some reporting about how they've actually been paying like kind of influential Portlanders to talk up the deal. That's it. That's who I saw. Ian Carmel was. Ian Carmel. Yeah. And I was like, dude doesn't even live here. Yeah. And they're all over the place.

shopping at Fubon this weekend out on 82nd. And they, at the entrance, they had a table, the we are ripped city campaign with posters for people to take, like trying to bolster the deal. So they are all over the place trying to get people on board. So John's question was like, was it them? Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was. Oh, okay, cool. Amazing. Wow. Okay. Wow. I just, I felt like that actor. Owen Wilson? Yeah, I just did like an Owen Wilson without many to. I was like, wow. Sorry, I'll think you're gone. So the term sheet, right? Those are the sort of baseline negotiations for the city to go to Rip City Management, which is the Blazers owner and the operator of the arena to basically say, here's what we want in return for letting you use the motor center and trying to hammer out a deal, right? So what's on the term sheet that Mayor Wilson came up with so far is... that the Blazers would pay $3 million annually as a property tax offset to be split between the city, the county, and the local school district, that they would let workers unionize and that they're going to stay for 20 years. There were a bunch of other ideas that were pitched over the course of the last few months, but were voted down 19 amendments last week, that... may come back up on Wednesday. There is still opportunity to add amendments. Interestingly, Council President Jamie Dunphy started out last week's meaning saying, I'm voting down all of these amendments because I'm going to do my own amendment next week that takes all the good ideas. So that's what we have to look forward to. Can I just tell you? Sure. As someone who's worked in large teams, that's my favorite move that a coworker can do. That's actually, that's what we call. Just emotional. It's a benevolent dictator. What a beautiful. Could you imagine, John? Could you imagine our pitch meetings? I'm voting down all your pitches because I have a pitch that's going to be encompassing all of the best parts of your pitches. I'm going to say what you said, but louder. That's a great way for everybody to feel mutually dissatisfied. But you can't blame him at the same time. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like how is our city council? Whatever. Angry all around. Go on, Elthia. Whatever. Everybody's feeling really good about how this is all going. I'm being sarcastic. Yeah, totally. I was looking into this because some of what Dunfie was saying is that the ones that failed six to six would be ideas that he would try to incorporate so long as the city negotiators said it was possible. So the ones that failed six to six were Avalos six, which would have required them to basically pay rent, which is different than the $3 million property tax offset. that there's Canal 2, 3, and 4, so requiring that there would be a return on investment for the city, increasing the level of the property tax asset and making sure that accrues more money over time, not indexed to inflation, but their pitch is like 6% a year it would increase, and increasing the user fee as well. So those are some of the ideas that we might see come back up on Wednesday. There's some other things I want to mention here because it's like, weird that Portland doesn't know where this money is going to come from. So we're talking 120 million up front. Hey, if you remember the budget we just had, it's not like we're sitting on top of money to just give out. And 275 million over the next 20 years to upkeep the stadium. And...

Portland doesn't know where that's going to come from. There's some pitches about where it could come from. Some from Portland Clean Energy Fund, some from Prosper Portland. But both of those pots of money are controlled by boards that can't vote to give them the money unless they get more information, which the Blazers say they won't do until they get a funding commitment. So it's a lot of, it's like the Spider-Man meme of everybody like pointing at each other. It's like, well, you have to give me this. You give me the money. You give me the information. You give me the deal. Yeah. Well, I know that developers are just like, well, it's really hard for them to get blueprints or whatever because that costs money to even have. But I'm like, can't they like write down their concepts of an idea? Do you have the concept of a plan? You know, like I must spend money to make money, by the way. City Council would probably take that. Like, because I think there's the lingo of like they want blueprints and like I get like the developers are just like, you know that you just don't get. blueprints, like you have to pay for that, like an architect, and you have to at that point already have a plan again. And I was like, I totally get that. But like there's, what's the plan? Yeah. How do we know that this thing that you want even qualifies for like the money that we have? I don't know if I can give you the money if it's not for something that's good for the money. There's also one quote I want to pull from this article because there's also possible pending litigation that the Blazers want taken off the table. There's this clause in the current lease agreement between the Blazers and Portland that says that the Rip City Management who owns the Blazers will keep the arena in first class. It's going to be first class. It's going to be the best. And Novick has brought up, hey, why are we paying to like renovate all this stuff? Aren't you supposed to keep it first class? It's kind of implying that you haven't been doing that. Maybe we could sue you about that. And so now the Blazers want that out of the term sheet that they're not in charge of that anymore. And they want to say like let's. be really clear that you guys aren't going to sue us. There's this quote from Alex Slinsky's article from Zandria Conyers, the Blazers chief legal officer who said in a July council meeting, without the threat of litigation hanging over our head, I think you'll find that we can be reasonable. I couldn't not read that in such like a threatening voice. I think you can find I'll be very reasonable. Why don't you put that gun down and we can have a nice chat? Exactly. I mean, the thing that is so headspinning to me is like, okay, we're taping on, you know, Monday, mid-morning. This meeting is happening on Wednesday. We still don't know, like, what these amendments are going to be. So it is going to be a race to the finish to try and put together what this initial term sheet is going to be, which will then lead into, like, months and months and months of negotiations. So it's like this very compressed time frame to put together something very important. And we are still waiting to see the details on it. So fingers trust. We can pull this on. off. Well, we're definitely keeping an eye on that. I have a feeling that it is a conversation that's going to come up later this week once we hear more about the city council's negotiations on their term sheet.

But I'm also just very curious about what's going to happen with the county because that clip that came out with Megan Moyer, it did not look good. Well, thank you, Althea, for briefing us on that. Let's take a quick break here when we come back. John is going to tell us some updates on what happened with the Centennial Mills warehouse fires. He says he's got some hot news. All right, John, I just realized that I said, you've got some hot news about a fire, and I feel really dumb now. Oh, not that. I didn't even mean to, guys. I wasn't, I didn't mean it. Well, you couldn't say it's cool. One thing I did learn is that the fires actually aren't extinguished. There are still flare-ups happening. What? I'll get into it. So everybody's been reporting on this. I'm mostly looking at some reporting by Terrick Anthony at the Oregonian, as well as some great reporting by KGW, K2, and Portland government. We actually had to start this taping 10 minutes late because there was actively a city press briefing going on about what's going on. So I'll get into it. But in case you missed it, just over a week ago on Sunday the 2nd, there was a four alarm fire at the Centennial Mills Warehouse Building. on Northwest NATO. That is a 116-year-old eight-story warehouse that had not been in use, but it was a huge blaze. All eight stories inside collapsed during the fire, but the structure is still there. So everybody's like, oh, crap, we have this giant looming, very significantly compromised structure. What do we do with it? A couple things that have come out in the days since. One, there were no fatalities initially reported, but they put in canine units last week to sort of sniff around. And they say that there was a high probability that there are human remains inside the building. The dogs were identifying that like, we think that there are some people in here. The police are saying, we can't even get into investigate fully yet because it's way too dangerous, so we don't know for sure. But the big issue. Railroad tracks run right alongside this building, okay? Amtrak has completely suspended trains along this track. The trains between Seattle and Portland that run along here are not running. But Union Pacific says they are resuming their trains. They're like, no, we're going to go for it. So at this press briefing, the city was like, no, do not do that. That is a bad idea. They transport oil, don't they? Don't they transport oil? Yes. Yes. I mean, and among the other things. The thing that I learned at this press briefing, city administrative Raymond Lee got on stage and was like, yo. The vibrations from the train could make this building fall down. Mm-hmm. That you run however many ton train next to a significantly compromised structure. That thing could just topple right the fuck over. So the city is sort of in this like detente with Union Pacific. Again, it's Monday morning. Union Pacific is say they're going to restart running trains again today. But the city is like, don't you fucking dare. What's going to happen? But the city doesn't actually have jurisdiction to stop them.

So this is like the big like scary issue right now. They've said that Mayor Wilson is ready to sign sort of like an emergency declaration if they do start running these trains. But we just don't know what's going to happen yet. Damn. I'm going to give another one. Wow. What? That was more of a Jennifer Coolidge, wow, than a no one else in the wow. Do you think so? Wow. It was like, wow. Yeah. They're trying to kill me. Damn. Oh, sick ref himself. Well, you just broke John. Okay. That one got me. Okay. So the other thing with that is like there was some findings that they detected traces of asbestos in the pearl when this initial fire happened. Like airborne asbestos. They've said that currently the air quality is not at risk, but that changes significantly if this building falls down uncontrolled. So everybody's like, oh, no. So like hazmat teams are alerted. It's a whole thing. Yeah. Can I just... I heard that the owner of that building was also the owner of the ice building. Is that true? The Centennial? That's true. Yeah. Stuart Lindquist. I heard it's the same. Okay, this is what's interesting. It's the same owner as the ice building who's been having already, you know, a lot of like friction with the city and the people of Portland. Hitting them with his car. Yeah. You know, just hitting people with cars and stuff. He tried to get a permit for the Centennial Mills warehouse to become a nightclub. And it was denied. And then it just burned down. And of course, like, this could all be circumstantial, but people are already not that stoked about him. So they're like pointing fingers and they're just like, he did this on purpose. And now we're getting like, there might be bodies. And it's just like, what in the monk is happening right now? This is like the opening of a monk episode. Do you know what I mean? Where everything's connected. And it always leads to murder for some reason. Oh my gosh. Sorry. Go on. Peak conspiracy corner, Claudia. I love it. I will say on the investigation of how the fire started, they say investigators are still looking into it. We don't know yet. Because they're not really going to be able to investigate fully until the building is demolished, which they are saying is going to be happening imminently. But obviously it has not happened yet. The big deal is like, they're like, you know, we can't just do a normal demolition on this building. It is like way too precarious. We need to get a very specialized contractor to be able to do it and draw up an engineering plan to be able to bring this building down. So the city says they are actively working on it. They are hoping to contract with a demolition provider today on Monday. And they said that they are hoping to begin demolition of the building on Friday of this week. So fingers crossed, they can stay standing until Friday when they actually start to bring it down and can start moving forward with some of these other questions.

It's stressing me out, man. It's stressing me out what I saw the smoke on the skyline. I get the word, an emergency. It doesn't feel like it's an emergency. There was a quote last week from one of the fire officials talking about how the water tower on top could fall off and roll down the street after you like the boulder from Indiana Jay Jones, okay? This is what he was trying to tell runners to stop cutting through the caution tape. But you know, you want to yell at the runners, you can't yell at Union Pacific? I don't. Could you imagine just being downtown looking behind you and you're just like freaking running down the street trying to avoid this rolling structure like Indiana Jay Jones? That would be insane. And then people are like sweeping up asbestos outside their house. And like the county and the city are just like, well, go ahead and wear a mask and you might want to hose it down first. It's like, this is out of my pay grade, man. And the other thing they said at this press conference on Monday morning, they were like, look. We already sent a hazmat team out this morning to deal with an issue at Hayden Island. It's not like they're just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Like we do not want to have this potential for like a catastrophic disaster on our hands. They are busy. They have things to do. So yeah. Can we just have one day where Portland isn't doing something? Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like just one day. No hazards today, please. Just one day, Portland. Just want everybody, stay home. Just one day. Just let city council figure this modus. And amidst all this, there's still the modus center thing. There's still like so much going on. And like now we're like, trains. Mayor Keith Wilson, say what you will about him. But that dude, there is no way he is like looking at the rest of his. two years and going, this is, well, this was a good, this was a good decision on my part. Yeah, yeah. The one positive thing I will say, though, like having watched this press conference this morning, you can tell that the city is taking it very seriously. Okay, good. They had, you know, people from every bureau of the city as well as the district four city counselors speaking. They sound very aligned on like recognizing that this is a big priority and that they hopefully will get it taken care of or at least begin addressing the issue this week. Yeah. It's so wild that the city doesn't have any way to tell Union Pacific don't. do that, you could blow up the whole neighborhood what is wrong with you. And it completely ties into this thing that we've been dealing with for a decade of these trains that run through the city, like, you know, I mean, it got like they freaking own it. It was probably 10 years ago, but there was that huge train derailment along the Columbia. Yeah. With that like spilled tons of hazardous chemicals. It is, is not a good design to have these trains running right through the city center for 4,000 reasons. Man. Well. Cool. Another thing to keep an eye on this week, John. Thank you.

Like, it's your fault. Like, you're the one of- So, Lloyd Center Vandals do not go plucking flowers outside of the Centennial Mills building. I know you want a commemoration, but those are not the right ones. I'm still in my conspiracy corner trying to figure out what the bodies are, because I already have ideas. Like, I already have theories, and I'm not going to share them because I want this show to continue. But, like, I'm just saying it's just, if anybody, hit me a Portland and CityCats.com. I'll tell you. We need a Claudia after hours episode. Oh, man. All right, guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. Wow. These two, like, these two headlines are giving me indigestion. But also, I, like, really can't wait to find out what's going to happen. It's going to be a big week. Right? Like, this is a big week. All right, guys. Thank you. Thanks, Claudia. Thank you for hanging out with me this morning. Appreciate it. Thanks, Claudia. Thanks, Claudia. That's all for today here on CityCast Portland. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, share it with a friend, rate it, leave us a good review. It actually really does help people, you know, find us. And don't forget, you can support this show and get great perks by becoming a CityCast Portland neighbor. Just visit membership.com.fm slash Portland. And right now, I think we have penance and possibly tote bags. Yes. As of Monday morning, seven tote bags left. So if you want a tote, get it. That's right. We'll be back tomorrow morning with more from around the city. Until then, see you at Slims, not anywhere near the Centennial Mills warehouse. You guys, stay away from it, please.