Could the Fleet Block Become SLC’s New Community Living Room?

M Today on CityCast Salt Lake, Salt Lake City just unveiled a plan for its little section of the fleet block. You know this space. It's across from Fisher Brewing, and it was home to the pink murals of people killed by police officers in Utah and beyond. Salt Lakers have been waiting on a plan since the murals came down, so let's talk through what we know so far. I'm Ali Viarty here with Central 9th resident Carrie Nakamura. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me. It's great to be here with you today. It's good to have you. There are a lot of moving parts in this plan, and I think some of them are quite exciting. Let's start with what was unveiled last week, which is the design concept for the city-owned open space part of the fleet block. And I want to talk to you about this because you are on the community negotiating committee. for this development. What did you think about it? I have a feeling you saw it first. We didn't see it first. I saw it for the first time last night. So because, and that's maybe some clarification. The community negotiating committee is actually negotiating with the developers on the non-city development portion. So we haven't really been that involved in the public space portion. But so it was really fun to see it last night. It was fun to experience that great turnout at Central 9th Market. Lots of people there. And quite frankly, as an area resident, I loved what I saw. It's going to be great for the community. Well, it can be hard to talk about things that are visual on a podcast, but let's try because this is basically the little sliver of this development that the city is responsible for. This is like the city's piece. And where it sits is at 9th South and 3rd West, that corner. So not right across from Fisher Brewing, a little bit further south. And it's mostly, I mean, they're calling it open space, and that's what it is. It's mostly a park. It is a park. That's what was fun. And Ella, you called it a little sliver. It's a quarter of the site. It's 25% of the site. It's huge. It looks so small to me on my laptop screen. I'm like, it's the tiny. Yeah. It's giving, what is this is a center for ants? Well, what's really fun about it is that if you know the central ninth ballpark community very well, well, you know that we're one of the most underserved communities in terms of parks and open space. And this is like a big investment in this community in parks and open space. And we're just really glad that it's on that portion of the block that abuts us that comes right up to our community and will be a new park open space for this community, as well as the larger community. But it's really exciting. And the plans we saw last night.

I think the public feedback I've heard over time of what people wanted there were really well reflected in the plan that was unveiled. It was very exciting with little model trees and they were different colors based on which ones would be more ornamental and which ones would be more shade oriented. you know, some temporary shade until the trees mature. So it was, it was really fun to see kind of all of those plans come together. Yeah. Trees is the biggest thing I'm seeing here. And of course, some of these trees are going to be paid for by Jeff Bezos's Earth Fund, which I'm guessing this is part of the largest grant to plant more trees all the way along 9th South and the 9-line, which really needs them. So that's great news. And then some of this is going to be paid for by the Parks Bond that we as voters passed years ago, that $80 million bond. to improve our green spaces in our city. Something about me care that you might not know is that I went to every park in Salt Lake County over the past two years. So now I have to add this to my list. I got to update the map. Yes. You mentioned what people want. What do you, like, can you talk me through some of the things that you heard people in the community asking for in this space and how you think they've been implemented? Yeah, so what I heard people asking for was a space where you could relax, where there are tables, where there are benches, where there are other seating options, where you can go sit. and enjoy open space. For example, I live in a condo. We are Zerescape. I don't have grass. I don't have tree. You know, I have trees. They're street trees. And so what I saw, and they called it the community living room, and I told my husband how much I loved that, because it really is this space where we can grab a cup of coffee at one of the local coffee shops and walk over there. and sit down in the morning and have a cup of coffee and maybe have some neighbors wander by. But that's the feel is that there's a little amphitheater space that's planned in there. There's a water feature. And from the plans I saw, it looks like it's a little water feature that kids can play in, which will be great to have all of those kind of amenities. walking distance from our community as well. We sit, the central ninth community, we sit equidistant to Jim Jordan Park and Liberty Park. It's about a mile away, each one. And this is putting some of that green space now right here in the heart of our community. I mean, all developments are tricky.

changes hard. They always bring a lot of feelings. But this one, I think in particular, because what came down from this space was the murals, which depicted the faces of people who were killed by police, whether in Salt Lake City or around the country. And so I'm wondering how you think the city has incorporated, if it has at all, like that... piece of what was there in the plan for what is to come because that's what I also heard a lot of people in the community asking for and aware of. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And my understanding, and please know, as the Community Benefits Committee, we weren't involved in this. So we saw it last night for the first time. That's right. But my understanding is the city has been working with the victim's families and the artists that maybe even put the murals up. And the art that will be in the public space will be in honor of and memory of those lives. And I can't tell you what that is because I haven't been involved in it. But that's what I heard last night because I heard the question being asked and that the art funds and the city's working through that right now with those who were most impacted. Yeah, that's what I've heard as well. And we should note, you're saying last night, this design was revealed last week. This episode is airing on Monday. So in case there's a little confusion there, that's why. Okay, let's talk about the piece of this that you are deeply involved in, which is this committee you're on for the city's first ever community benefits agreement. I have to tell you, Carrie, I am very hot for community benefits agreement. This is something we've talked about a lot on this show. So can you explain what that kind of means and why you think we need one for this development? Yeah, it was really exciting to be asked to be part of this. And when I was asked to be part of it, I didn't understand that it was the first time Salt Lake has ever gone through this kind of a process. But just for your listeners so that they understand kind of holistically. A group of residents, business owners, workers in the area, property owners in the area were assembled. The group was assembled and were called the Community Benefit Negotiating Team. And we have actually been meeting with the developers. And we've had the city hired a facilitator to manage this process as we were meeting with the developers. And then the facilitator gave us access to different resources in city hall like real estate and parks, the park staff, as we had questions. But what we really did was we started meeting the end of April.

Prior to our meetings, the city had had a couple of different, maybe two or three different open houses where the community at large was invited to come in and think about fleet block and think about hopes, dreams, and aspirations. And the community was asked to dream big. So when we started meeting as a community group, we had the benefit of all of that input. as the basis that we could start from. So we weren't in there, you know, making up ideas and thinking of them on our own. We really were able to tap in to that all of the great ideas that were submitted through those public processes as we started our work. And then we kind of put buckets of, we took all of those ideas and we put them into different idea buckets that then we as a group started going through and saying, okay, from what we've heard. in the community, what are some of the most important things that we would want to ask the developers through agreement to be sensitive to? And the part of the process that we're at right now is we have sort of finalized our recommendations and given them to our facilitator. And she's taken them back to City Hall and City Hall is looking at them now. And then they'll be sent to the developer. So it's kind of that first across the line, these are the different things that we're asking for. That's the stage we're at right now, which is really exciting. One of the things that I think is so great about community benefits agreements is that they are not an agreement between, you know, in theory, they are not an agreement between the government, local government, aka Salt Lake City. and the developer. They are an agreement between the community and the developer. Yes. And what I think is very sexy about that is that it is an opportunity to, hmm, let me just say, I don't want to say skirt. But I can't think of a better word, laws from the state, which it feels like often in the city, when we look at things that we want, we are a progressive city. We have progressive ideas. We would like progressive negotiations with developers. Often we are preempted by the state. And so when we think about something like a community benefit agreement, the state's not involved. In theory, the government's not involved. This is between the developer and the community. That said, the developer has to stay at the table. So I'm curious what you think in all of this is keeping the developers of the fleet block at the table in this negotiation. Sure. Well, I came into the conversation with the developers, you know, and I have a government background. I've served in government through my career. And my bottom line is The taxpayers are investing in this. It's on taxpayer-owned land. And the taxpayers, the community, should have some say. This isn't just, you know, your property, your rights, you get to do it the way you want to do it. You're actually doing it on our land and land that we own.

And so let's talk about some of the things that we want to see collectively as you develop on our land under this interesting model where you're developing on public land. And so you're exactly right about the agreement being with the community. And in fact, one of our conversations was about who holds accountability ongoing. Yeah. Like who in the community makes sure that the developer. You know, once we get to an agreement, we don't have a signed agreement yet. Let's be really clear about that. But once we get there, who makes sure that the developer follows through on the things we've requested? And we've made a recommendation. We think that's the Central 9th and the Granary Community Councils together. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, and then they can keep Glendale and Ballpark that are neighboring community councils appraised of what's going on. But we want that accountability held closest to where the property is. Okay, you get me. That was going to be my next question is accountability. Oh, interesting. Okay. So who else is at the table from the community side then? Yeah, so you have representatives from the Granary Community Council. You have representatives from the Central Ninth Community Council. We have a resident from Glendale Poplar Grove area. We have other residents that are participating. We have business owners that are participating. We have, there's a young person that's been invited to participate. So the facilitator's been reaching out to everyone, making sure that everyone stays involved along the way. But it really has been a great group. There's been, there are a couple people who have a building background, more of a development, construction, materials background. So it's been a really fun group to learn from. That's fun. That is fun. Okay, well, let's talk about. The hopes and dreams for this agreement. What are some things that are being negotiated for the community? Sure. And I don't want to get into the details because we did just ship ours over and we haven't had a chance for anybody to react to review yet. This is an active negotiation. Yes, it's an active negotiation. But I think it's fair to talk about kind of the big buckets that I talked about, sort of where the different ideas were. So when we looked at all of those different community inputs, we found that things kind of fell into areas of, number one, shocking, surprise, surprise housing. And the housing needs to be affordable for people who live and work in the area. So that was one thing that the community, there were a lot of comments from the community about that. And as a community benefits negotiating team, we talked a lot about that. The next one was great. It was commercial spaces that work for the neighborhood.

And there were some really great ideas that were put forward regarding that. Like one is, you know, arts and culture spaces for art and culture businesses. Another is youth businesses. Like we, you know, maybe we have some space dedicated to youth enterprises. Those were some of the ideas that were discussed in that commercial spaces that work for the neighborhood. We also talked about things like, We probably, you know, we don't need three or four coffee shops in the development. We've got quite a few coffee shops in the area. Doesn't mean none, but there are other things. A lot of people raise the idea that we need kind of groceries, like a little corner market that has some groceries and stuff might be nice. And so putting some of those kinds of ideas forward. The other bucket was public spaces. And what I really liked is the way it was framed, it's that public spaces that belong to everyone and are open to everyone. And that's where it links into where we started this conversation with the city's public space. We want the spaces through these private developments to be a continuation of that space, to not feel wholly separate. I think you've probably been to spaces in other developments that are called public spaces, but you feel like you're sitting in some other developments front yard if you're using the bench. And we don't want that field. We want the field to be a continuation of that public space. And what I saw last night that was super exciting was that was kind of what was drawn, was that the public space will continue into what the private development space becomes, that we continue that public space. And in that, we talked a lot about environmental sensitivity. We are in a desert. We need to be thoughtful of that. We do need trees in this neighborhood. We need to cool the environment. We need heat mitigation. There's a lot of concrete in Grenary and Central 9th right now. And then the other big bucket was jobs and economic opportunity for people living in the area. And, you know, we talked about that, not even just jobs post, but also like as we do the jobs right now, as we build this, like, let's be sensitive to trying to hire locally, you know, trying to hire unions, trying to do those kinds of things. So those were some of the conversations. And then another area that might surprise you that. that we heard a lot about was construction mitigation. As we go into this construction phase, it's going to be a big impact on the people who live, have businesses, and work in this area. And so we would like the benefits agreement to give a nod to that, to say these are some of the things maybe developers that the city might not ask you to do, but we as neighbors are asking you to maybe be good neighbors with us on some ideas that we put forward around construction.

Disappear the sidewalk. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Keep the sidewalk open. It's already hard enough for us to walk, you know, like up in ballpark and central ninth to access in a walkable way granary. Hopefully this development makes that easier, but don't cut us off during the period of construction. Yeah. We're going to take a little break. And when we come back, let's talk more about jobs. Carrie Nakamura, we are talking about plans for the fleet block development. This is the big, big sort of block across from Fisher Brewing in downtown Salt Lake City. You mentioned that in this... community benefits agreement that you are on the committee that's negotiating this on behalf of the community with the developer. It is going to be Salt Lake City's first ever community benefits agreement. That is very, very cool. A long time ago, we had on a union organizer to talk about a missed opportunity for the city to guarantee union jobs for the downtown sports and entertainment district. Is union labor on the table for the fleet block development as part of this community benefit agreement? Well, what I was telling you earlier is I don't want to get into the details. Okay. Because the details are still under negotiation. Yeah. But I can tell you with 100% assurance that union labor is a discussion. Okay. And it's a point that the committee's been discussing. And to your point earlier about we are sometimes limited as local governments, so when I put on that hat that I've worked in local government by state statutes. This is one big area, right? We have mayors at both the city and the county level that would love to do things to be more supportive of union labor. And quite honestly, they're preempted by state law. And there just really is no going around that preemption. And so we are exploring the possibilities of what are the opportunities that might exist. given that this is an agreement between the community and the developer rather than between the city and the developer. Yeah. And you're referring to two codes, Utah codes, passed by the legislature a while ago. One says the city cannot require that a contractor pay a wage higher than the federal minimum wage. And the other says that a city cannot require that a contractor be a labor union. Yeah. Yeah. But as we mentioned, the nice thing about community benefits agreements, they're not between the city or the state and the developer. They're between the community. So I can see why there would be an opportunity there to have that conversation. I'm going to push you more on details and then you just let me know if there are things you can't discuss. But I'm curious if you all have talked about a Salt Lake City worker requirement. Like is there a target for...

people on this project, people building this development being from Salt Lake City. I know often when we talk about this city, we talk about how we should be able to afford to live here and work here. I think that's an interesting question. And I think that that came up a couple of different times. It came up, number one, with the jobs, not only the jobs to do the construction, but also the jobs when the things done, right? When the developments are done, where do the workers live and work? And it comes into play not only in the jobs, kind of that jobs bucket, but also the housing. Because if all of the housing is so unaffordable that people in the area can't afford to live there, that those tie together, right? You have to have housing that the people can afford to live in, which also means you have to have jobs that pay a wage that people can't afford to live in the area. Yeah. So yes, lots of conversation around both of those topics. It sounds like there are a lot of people with interests in this development, the different community councils, the businesses, the developer, the city itself. When the murals were there, it felt like it was a really important place for those families too. Who do you think this space belongs to? I think it belongs to all of us, right? It belongs. I mean, public space belongs to the public and the public at large. And there are lots of different representative voices that come into that. But that's who it belongs to. It belongs to all of us. And that's just my view of publicly owned space. And when the taxpayers have invested in the space and have the space over time, it's all of ours. Yeah. How is this community benefits agreement process going for you? Like, this is the first time the city has done this. It's not the first time that, that like... People have tried. I remember when it was announced that Intermountain was going to be developing the hospital where the old Sears was that that block, which is that project's been very, very slowly in motion for a long time now. Members of the downtown business community asked for a community benefits agreement. They didn't get execution on that. But do you think that, like, you all are building a real template here for future projects? I think we are, but I think the thing that differentiates this, even from the inner mountain site, is who owns the land that the development's happening on? It's probably, and this is just me surmising, I haven't heard this, but I would surmise it's more difficult for the city to force a community benefits agreement on privately held land.

because there are development rights that people on privately held land hold. This is unique. I actually love this model. I love the model that the public entity didn't just sell the space. They didn't just sell it to the developers. They decided to be part of the development. and help shape it. And then that afforded the opportunity to bring in this community benefits agreement because you're developing on public space. And because you're developing on public space, we can ask for some different things because of that. In Detroit, they passed the first community benefits agreement ordinance. in a major city in the country, which basically said that if there's a development project that's over, I think, $75 million. And if the city, if the developer is receiving significant subsidies from the city, then there has to be a community benefits agreement. Do you think this is a direction that Salt Lake City is headed? Like, could you see this happening in the city as a resident and the participant in this process? Well, I don't want to speak for the city. But as a resident, I would like to see it be a direction that we're headed. I have long held a public policy position that when the public invests in a project and I'm, you know, CRAs, RDAs, all of those different types of investments. Once we invest in the project, we... there should be a higher say that we have in the project. And then don't even get me started about talking about how we get a return on that investment because that's a whole other rabbit hole. You and I could go down. Oh, we sure could. But I think that that's probably where we start heading next, right? When the public puts either land or money up for the development, how does the public get their return? The developers always get a return. And when do we as the taxpayers get our return on those investments? Yeah. Before I let you go, Carrie, I just want to know what's next in this process. And will the public have a chance to weigh in? And what does that look like if so? Well, that's a good question right there. I have not seen that we have a public weigh in on the process. I can certainly ask the process holder if that's planned, but I don't, I haven't seen that a public weigh in on, I mean, the people who were assembled to do this because we started with that bank of public way in, and then we were asked to do the negotiation. I think that's where the process ends is that we. you know, negotiate something. And I said we just have sent our first statement in, hasn't even hit the developers yet. I don't think they've even seen it yet. And we'll continue through that process until we have the agreement. And then as far as I understand it, the process then moves into, okay, now that we have a signed agreement, however long that takes for us to do with the developers, I am sure it will not be the first iteration. I'm sure there will be back and forth.

And one thing I should mention is in the agreement, we started with the things that the developers had already offered. We said, okay, great, we love those things. Let's take those and then we're going to build from that. So we put those in the draft agreement as well. But then the next step, once we've got the agreement, then gets into that accountability. okay, with what kind of regularity do we check in and do we have conversations? And those are in open public forums. I mean, that will be at community council level. And as you know, community council meetings are not restricted to just members who live in the community. Anyone can come and weigh in as we go through that part of the process. Yeah. Carrie Nakamura, member of the community negotiating committee for the fleet block development. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. If you want to see the design that we talked about for the city section of this at the top, we will put a link to it in the episode notes. If you want to support the show and get great perks, you can become a citycast-saltlake neighbor at membership.citycast.fm. That is all for us today. We'll be back tomorrow morning with more from around town. Take care.