The Ron Verb Show - 3pm Hour Friday - 08/07/26

Now, Ron Verbe. On News Radio 570, WKBN. Callers online stand by because I want to talk to somebody who I talk to this afternoon. Here's a guy that I got to tell you. I just admire. I admire because do you remember a couple weeks ago when I played you some of the sound bites out of Florida from Ron DeSantis and his philosophy when it comes to property taxes and taxes in general? As I said to you in Florida, they are spending less this year than they did the year before. And they're spending less that year than they did the year before that. Not adjusted for inflation. The dollar amounts, forget adjusting for inflation. It's less. They're spending less each year. over that period of time than they did the year before. And so they do something called zero-based budgeting. In other words, we're not going to start and say, hey, this is where you were last year, so let's start from there and see if you need any increases or anything. They're going to simply say, okay, we start at zero. It's the philosophy. Like Ron DeSantis says, we in governments, the only way we can give relief to our citizens is through trying to let them keep more of their money as far as taxes are concerned. instead of the other way arounds. His attitude is just refreshing. It's just refreshing when you listen to him talk. And in November, they got something on a ballot down there that's going to have some major reforms on property taxes in Florida. And with that in mind, I mean, I just admire his philosophy. But there's a guy in Lake County that I admire his philosophy. Commissioner No is his nickname there. John Pletnik is his birth name. John, welcome back to the program. Hello, hello. It's John Pletchnik. Good to be here. Pleschnik, okay. I keep doing it with a C. I don't know why I do that. It's Pleschnik. It's almost like an S, you know what I mean, as opposed to a C. Pleschnik. Okay. It's like a C. Pledge, Nick. And actually, there's a reason for that. If you look at my logo on any yard sign, you'll see a check over the sea. I didn't come up with that. There's a check over the sea in Slovenian. I'm a first-generation American. My father came from Slovenia. Pledgenik is a Slovenian name, and the accent mark, the check over the sea, shows it's pronounced C.H. So it's Pledgenick. No wonder I don't get it right. See, I need the checkmark there. Before I get into your philosophies, which I find fascinating, tell me a little bit about yourself, because I'm intrigued about you. Tell me about where you went to high school and your academics, or what I want to say, were you smart in high school, then where you went for your bachelor's degree, and then you went to Duke Law School. Tell me a little bit about your journey to become.

and a Duke going to Duke and graduating as a lawyer. I mean, those are some monumental accomplishments. Absolutely. So I was very blessed to be homeschooled. My mother was a teacher before she married my father. And so I went all the way through high school as a homeschooled student. And my mother was just an absolutely brilliant teacher, and it was a great blessing. Then I went on to Belmont Abbey College, where I not only studied, but I worked in the monastery kitchen for the Benedictine monks. floors, set the tables, you know, and when it occasionally snowed, I even made pizza for the monks. But, you know, I worked almost 40 hours a week while I went to college, a major in accounting. And from there, I went on to law school at Duke University, where I graduated at the age of 22. And I used that law degree to go to New York City to practice tax and employee benefits while I continued to go to school at night. at New York University School of Law, the number one ranked graduate tax program in the country, and that's where I earned my master of laws and taxation. So I have degrees in accounting, law, and tax, and that's why I have always been a strong fit when it came to working on budgets, governmental or otherwise, because those are the fundamentals, accounting, law, and tax. So did you graduate Duke at the age of 22, you said? That's right. That was with a law degree or an accounting degree? With a law degree. I graduated from college when I was 19.

You know, this is really something, man. I mean, this is, like I say on the year when you're not here, I'm a, I graduated University of Akron, and I don't think I'm worthy to even speak with you. I mean, it's like, it's just very impressive. I mean, it's, so homeschooling worked out really well for you. I mean, your mother really gave you a great education. It gave you a huge head start. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. I said in the footnote to my very first law review article, I dedicate this to my mother. Her sacrifices are my success. Yeah, because, I mean, what she did in the education you got from homeschooling from your mother, I don't know that that would be equal if you went to the public school system, would it be? I don't think it would have been equal in any school system. Home schooling isn't right for every family. The parents certainly have to be qualified, but given that my mother was a teacher by trade, she was the most qualified and the most motivated to give me the best education humanly possible. So I'm not here to say homeschooling is right for every family, but it was very right for our family, and I'm grateful to my mother for giving me that education. When you graduated from Duke as Duke Law School, I mean, why didn't you say, okay, I'm going to get a job at some firm or I'm going to represent people? Why wasn't it? I did. I did. I was in, I was at a law firm for two years in New York City. Did you like it? I did. I did, but in the back of my mind, I always wanted to be a professor. My father was a professor of philosophy, logic, and theology, and I always wanted to teach myself. So while I was enjoying the work at the firm in the back of my mind, I thought, what could I do to ultimately teach? And I called my old tax professor at Duke University, Professor Richard Schmalbeck, and I said, what can I do? You know, what should I do if teaching is my goal? And he said, you need to do a federal clerkship. You need to work for a federal judge. And obviously, if you want to be a tax professor, the U.S. tax court is the... is the clerkship for you. And I said, well, I happen to know some of your former students are judges on the tax court. Would you be willing to recommend me? And he was kind enough to do so. I ended up accepting a clerkship with a brand new judge, one of President Bush's, George W. Bush's last appointees. And I was his very first law clerk. I opened the office in D.C. And so after two years in New York City working for my firm, I spent two years in Washington, D.C. as an attorney advisor to a brand new judge on the U.S. tax court and helped to write opinions. And that was a great experience where I got to see the law for the perspective of the bench from the judge and continue to build my expertise. So after you got done with Duke Law School, what possessed you to say, I'm going to go further and you went to New York?

Well, I graduated with the Faculty Award for Tax and Estate Planning from Duke, and I really wanted to continue my education and tax. As I said before, NYU is the number one ranked graduate tax program in the world, and it has been as long as the rankings have existed. So it's not like it competes with other schools. It's been number one forever. And if you want to be a tax guy, NYU is where you want to go. A side note, you might know Barron Trump as a student at NYU as well in the undergraduate program. But if you want to be a tax person, NYU is the school. And so I love tax law. I felt like this is the fit for me. Ultimately, tax law is the nexus of all public policy because, you know, it comes down to how we pay for society. Taxes are... the centrifugal focus of all politics. And so given that, I wanted to know how government worked and how to make it work better, I wanted to study tax law. And NYU is the number one place in the world to do it. I mean, it's interesting to me that once you got through Duke and once you got a law degree, that you wanted to go on further and study tax law. I mean, it would seem that would be like about the last thing in a world anybody would want to study. Well, you know what they say, find something no one else wants to do and do it well. You always have a job. Right. And so you study tax law, and then you also said accounting, correct? That's right. Accounting was my undergraduate major. Then I got my law degree from Duke University, and finally my master of laws and taxation from NYU. I mean, those are very impressive credentials. How did that, working in a New York law firm and the things that you described to us earlier, John, how did that lead you to be in Lake County and becoming a commissioner? Tell me how you went from where you were working to where you are now. Well, as I shared, my goal was to become a tax professor, and I was very blessed in that I had multiple offers to teach, but one of them was from Cleveland State University, and given that my father's family had largely settled from Slovenia and the Cleveland area, I felt a strong connection to Northeast Ohio. I've been coming here my entire life, and so it was an easy choice to say yes to Cleveland State University, where I began my full-time teaching career. But almost as soon as I started to get involved in the community, people said, would you step up in this and this and this leadership role. And I went from chairman of the Willoughby Hills Recreation Commission to vice president of the Willoughby East Lake Library Board of Trustees. and ultimately vice president of Willoughby Hill City Council, that's the point where ultimately and unexpectedly a commissioner appointment came open. One of the county commissioners resigned. And so, given that he was a Republican, that meant the Republican Party had to appoint his replacement. And when push came to shove, 79 people voted for me. And here's the interesting part, Ron.

I got exactly 79 votes to be appointed the 79th commissioner in the history of Lake County, Ohio. I mean, isn't that something? And when I sit back and think about people in these particular offices, I can think of no one better qualified from an academic standpoint than you to go into an office like this. Can you tell me when you first entered politics, was there much of a learning curve for you, whether that was when you first started or when you became a commissioner, or were you pretty adept to it from the very beginning because of your educational background? I think my educational background prepared me for public service very well. Understanding government fund accounting, incrementalism versus zero-based budgeting. These are concepts that I've studied, researched, and taught my whole life. So the public service part was a really tight fit. I immediately understood. The politics, though, I don't think anything can prepare you for. I know you've seen it firsthand as a public figure on. It's never been nastier out there. People are not trying to have a full and fair debate. There's minions and keyboard warriors and trolls and fake profiles. And it's just a pile of nastiness designed for political power. We're not really having a debate between gentlemen and gentlewomen to see who the most qualified people are. Politics today is a blood sport, and it's sad, because a lot of the most qualified people aren't willing to fight it out. Over the years, John, I interviewed a lot of people over the years in politics, and I stopped interviewing most of them. They weren't that impressive. I mean, this sounds bad, and I don't want to sound bad or arrogant. They weren't that bright. They weren't that impressive. And it seemed like so many of them were in it because it was a good job for them and a good paycheck and good benefits. And they really didn't know how to do anything else. But they didn't come to it with great academic credentials or an understanding of... Just money and business, I guess you would say, or public service. Well, unfortunately, when the best people demure, because they don't want to deal with the nasty politics, who's left? And the reason why I felt such a strong commitment and calling to continue this work, even though it's often difficult, almost always bankless, and you usually get yelled at by a bunch of people that don't know you. I continue to do it because I consider the alternative. As you pointed out, most people who enter politics do so because they're self-interested. They want to make a career of it. They want to be famous. I can honestly say if I were making this decision just for me, I would not be running for re-election. I would leave it to someone else.

But I feel a sincere calling to do the job. I don't think there's someone right here right now who's ready to do it better than me, and so I feel called to do this work. And I think that more people who truly have expertise in their profession need to make the sacrifice of running for office to take those punches. to let those insults roll off their back shoulder because we need the best people in office. We don't need whoever is left. We don't need people who can't find a better job so they go for politics. We need people for whom it's a genuine sacrifice to make that sacrifice. I mean, George Washington gave up. a beautiful life on Mount Vernon to fight a war and risk treason against Great Britain. Donald Trump risk going to prison for the rest of his life to run for president three times. We need men like that who are willing to sacrifice everything who could live a much better life without politics. The people who don't want it are the ones that we want to serve. When I started out, I started out talking about Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, who I think is terrific as a governor. And if you study anything that he – first and foremost, the thing I like about Ron DeSantis is he reads. I mean, he reads. And that's how he makes a lot of his decisions. He's a lawyer as well. But he reads. And when he goes beyond that, he has the same type philosophy that you do when it comes to taxes. Do you – Sense that. Let me do my break, and then I'd like you to respond to that. Get your comments about Ron DeSantis. We've got a lot to cover here with Commissioner No, John Plushnik, back in a minutes.

Hey, and talk station, 570 WKBN. It's 325 in the afternoon news radio 570 WKBN. Do you understand the comparison I make because when I take a look at Ron DeSantis and what he's doing with property taxes and his philosophy and your philosophy, not just as lawyers, but I see a lot of similarity. Do you notice that or do you look at that at all? I do. I do. I was recently speaking on a panel hosted by DiaStream at the Cleveland Metro Park Zoo. And when I was asked about property taxes, I quoted Ron DeSantis. I said, how absurd is it that we pay tax every year, every year, every year to stay in our home, like a surf paying rent to the government? We would never do that with a television set. As Governor DeSanis said, we pay sales tax once and the TV is ours. We would revolt if we were told you have to keep paying on that TV every month, every year. It's absurd. And we sometimes need to reframe these issues like Ron DeSantis does in a powerful way. Would you be willing to pay property tax on your TV? No, you'd say it was a joke. And so why are we so willing to pay such high property taxes on something as sacred as our home? And then it isn't just based on, even if you continue to pay, and based on what you paid for your home initially, that's one thing. But to say, okay, we're not only going to have you pay these taxes every year, but we're going to tell you we think your house is now worth this, and this is what your taxes are going to be. That even goes to another step. And that, Ron, is a tax on unreal. they're taxing you on income you haven't even earned yet and let me say it more powerfully they're taxing you on income you may never earn because your home might not be worth as much as they say or even if it is it might go down in value before you sell it so they're taxing you on income that you might never earn with a holy fictional value that serves no purpose other than to raise your taxes how is that legal It's because the Ohio Constitution is not as well written as our U.S. Constitution. A lot of people say, oh, property taxes are unconstitutional, and I would say yes. Under the U.S. Constitution, the federal government, Congress, cannot charge you a direct tax on your property without going through a whole bunch of shenanigans that go way beyond the scope of our conversation today. For practical purposes, A property tax like we have in Ohio could not be levied by the federal government. It would be unconstitutional. That's because our founding fathers and mothers were wise. Unfortunately, the Ohio Constitution gives a lot more room for taxing than the federal constitution, and that authority's been abused. So it leads us to where we are today. Incidentally, we had the re-evaluations where taxes went up pretty significantly here in Mahoning County. Then we just got through with the other re-evaluations that just took place where they'll go up again. But because of Dave Thomas, those increases will be based on the rate of inflation, not on that 25% increase, correct?

That's true, but we need to bear in mind that inflation can be very substantial. Since 2019, we've had something like 30% inflation. So Representative Thomas's bill limiting increases in the value of your home to inflation is an improvement. I would argue it's not enough. To your original point, Ron, if we're going to keep property taxes, which I don't want to do, but if we're going to keep them. value should be set at sales price. It should never go up unless or until you sell your home. Absolutely. I think everybody listening that would say if we're going to keep them, that's how it should be. But I want to do a follow-up question. Stand by. Oh, no, I get some time here. The follow-up question to that would be. What do you do from the aspect of government because they're victims of inflation and a fire truck has doubled in price or a police car has gone from 50,000 to 80,000? Their wages have gone up to keep employees and their health care benefits costs more. So they do need additional money for their employees just as a private sector business would have to raise prices. So how do you do that? I'd say that argument is a fallacy. because you can respond just as easily. You can't raise taxes because taxpayers face inflation and they can't afford it. The reality is we have a bimodal question. Do we put the burden of inflation on the taxpayer or on government? And I believe it's government's job to become constantly more effective and efficient in a way that mitigates inflation. You should be X percent more efficient every year. Frankly, you should outpace inflation with your efficiency increases. That's the standard we should set. Stand by. Stand by back after the break. I told you he's fascinating. Back in a minute. News Radio 570, WKVN. John Houston has joined the ranks of those calling for the resignation of Ohio Congressman Max Miller. The House Ethics Committee is investigating accusations of abuse by his ex-wife, the daughter of Senator Bernie Moreno. Miller is denying the allegations. Three East Cleveland homes have been left in ruins after a Thursday fire. The fire began at a vacant home on Carlyan Road and spread to two neighboring properties. Firefighters at the scene reportedly had issues with water from the start. No one was hurt and the cause of the fire is not yet known. Picklefest returns to Akron this weekend for its third year. Picklefest visitors can expect to experience a celebration of pickles, including pickle-themed games and contests, plus a number of food vendors featuring pickle-centered items. Picklefest happens Sunday from 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. at lock 3. Admission is free. I'm Andy Betts. Listen on the free iHeart Radio app for all your music, news, talk, and sports radio. Podcast 2. Download the app. Free never sounded so good. A to Z dependable services, plumbing.

Now, Ron Verb on News Radio 570, WKBN. Back to it, News Radio 570 WKBN. And Ron Verb from Lake County, it's Commissioner No, John Plushnik, is on the end of our line. So you basically, when I talked about Ron DeSantis, as I say, Ron DeSantis, this year. He will spend less money than the year before. In the year before, he spent less money than the year before that, not based on inflation. I mean, he doesn't adjust for inflation. It's just we're spending less money each year than they did. That's the type of efficiency you're talking about when it comes to government, correct? That's right. And yet, and I have to give a little perspective here between Ohio and Florida. And yet Ohio spending is going up and up and up. I mean, Ohio spends about twice as much per capita as Florida does. So I agree with you. Florida is making itself, if not one of the model for governance amongst the states. But Ohio is way behind. And there's a lot of low-hanging fruit. There's a lot to cut. So when people say you can't just cut spending to make up the difference, I say Florida is proving you wrong. Right, because, I mean, just think about it. Each year he's spending less than he did the year before, once again, not adjusted for inflation. So it's the same dollars. You follow? You dig what I'm saying, right? Exactly. I mean, and that's the approach. And it's just an amazing philosophy that he has. It reminds me so much of what you're doing. So you're saying you want to get rid of property taxes altogether. But if we have to keep them, you say it should be based on what you initially bought your house at, not what they say it's worth and you're paying on that. Exactly. And for those who say that's impossible. California has that rule. Liberal California. So they passed Prop 13. It was a ballot initiative. Obviously, their legislators wouldn't have adopted something like this, but they passed Prop 13 in California, which froze property values at sales price. It's being done. It can be done. It would work here. And I've long said, Ron, that if we can't agree to abolish property taxes. then two reforms would deal with a lot of the grief. One, we just discussed, property value equals sales price. The other is we should absolutely abolish property taxes for seniors. I want to abolish property taxes for everyone, but if you're unwilling to go that far, it would only cost us 3% of Ohio's all-funds budget to exempt seniors 100% from property taxes. That's the minimum we should do. Define senior, is it age-based 65? How do you define this? I would define it the same way as the homestead exemption, which is 65 years of age and older. Would it be income-based or just age-based? If we had no income limits, no value limits, it would cost less than 3%.

of Ohio's budget. If you imposed income and value limits, it would be even cheaper. Probably half as expensive. But, I mean, I would be opposed to imposing any type of financial requirements because they're always set so low. It just eliminates a lot of people. To me, if you're going to give, once again, I go back to Florida. In Florida, everyone gets a homestead exemption. If that's your primary residence, it isn't age-based at all. Well, my point to you, Ron, is that even without income or value limits, so that every senior, everyone 65 years of age and older gets it, that's a $3 billion annual cost that's less than 3% of Ohio's budget. That's an inflation adjustment, Ron. And the fact that our state legislature hasn't made that tiny, modest, doable reform tells me they're not serious yet. So to do that, you're saying that they should be able to do that without raising any taxes by simply cutting some of the ridiculous spending in the state of Ohio, correct? Cut a little spending. Our surplus this year was almost enough to pass this. I mean, they'd have to cut less than 1% of their budget, throw the surplus at it, and boom, you've exempted every senior from property tax. How would that affect the local community, then, if the seniors stop paying property taxes? Would it come from the state or would it just be void? Under my plan where I'm saying cut the state budget, the state would reimburse the localities just like they do for the homestead exemption, and there'd be no effect on localities. Okay. So in essence, the state just covers those taxes by the surplus that they have and or by cutting some degree of spending. Because what percentage is the $3 billion of the state budget? The state budget's a little over $100 billion, so a little less than 3%. So you're questioning, why isn't this being champion? Why isn't this getting done? I know that Senator Alcatrona has a bill in the state legislature for a 50% exemption for seniors. I've talked to him. He said he's open to doubling it to 100%, but he says that his bill has gotten no movement. It's stuck in committee. And that should change. That bill should be updated to 100% exemption, and it should be priority number one. And both Vivek Ramaswamy and Amy Acton, if they seriously want to stand in front of us and say we're leaders, The Vec Vivek Ramaswamy and Amy Acton should go to the state legislature and refuse to leave until they pass that exemption. Do you think the constitutional amendment will get enough signatures? I believe it will, but not until next year. I mean, I think folks were hopeful. I was certainly hopeful that a miracle would happen, and we could collect over 600,000 signatures in one year. But realistically speaking, this is not a paid campaign. We do not have paid circulators going around Ohio collecting signatures. Everyone is volunteering. And to get half the signatures in a year is pretty miraculous. Now that said, I know Brian Thomas Massie, the founder of the movement to abolish property taxes, he's from Lake County, and he is 100% confident we're going to have the signatures by next year. I share his confidence.

I mean, I sit back with a great deal of pride of how many signatures we've gotten in this community and the volunteers that we have in this community that I would say are second to none. If we could clone them and send them to other areas, we would be blessed to say the least. I mean, I sit back in question why talk radio isn't doing more in other communities because they're doing nothing and why we don't have more Denise's out in the world and the girls that are helping her. collect these signatures. I mean, we have a lot in this community to be proud of. I completely agree. Mahoning County has done an extraordinary job of mobilizing and collecting signatures, and that effort is not going to waste. We have put big government on notice. It may take us another year to get there, but we're done being talked down to and told there's no appetite to cut taxes. We can't afford to cut taxes. Tell us how you're going to replace the money. Let me ask you this, Ron. Does anyone go to the homeowner and ask them, how can they afford to pay higher and higher property taxes? Does the government ask you before they raise your taxes? Ron, do you have a plan to afford this? Do they say, okay, you don't? We're not going to raise your tax. Do they ever ask you, Ron? No, they never have. Exactly right. So why should we ask governments? The reality is the burden is going to fall on the taxpayer or the government. It's bimodal. It is one or the other. Who can better afford to take the hit? And let me tell you, government is fat and happy and the taxpayer is being squeezed to death. If we have to choose who takes the hit, this is an easy choice. Let's make our government more like Florida. Let's cut back. and finally give the taxpayer some relief. But the next time I hear someone say, how are you going to pay for it? I laugh. I've given you the answer. Two words. Cut spending. The fact that you don't like the answer isn't my problem. Right. And it's obviously clear. That's what he continues to do in Florida and continues to provide all the services that people are asking for. If anything, Florida provides better services than Ohio, and it's doing it for about half the cost. So to all the naysayers who claim there's no way that we could possibly provide good government services and abolish property taxes, they've been disproven 10 times over because Ohio is overspending to such an incredible degree. Ron, according to Wallet Hub, we are the 16th highest tax state in the nation. Also, according to Wallet Hub, we have the eighth highest property taxes in the nation. We don't have the eighth or the 16th best services. We are way overtaxed. We are way underserved. And here's the bad news for government. Taxpayers aren't saying cut my taxes and cut services. Oh, no. The news is far worse for big government. We're saying we want to abolish property taxes and we want more and better services and Florida is proof it can be done. If this gets on the ballot, do you believe it to pass? So far, Ron, every poll says that it will.

I mean, we've seen... But you know, John, John, you know there will be millions spent by all the lobbying groups to run commercials to defeat it. scare you to vote. I know, but I think that that's a little bit of a red herring here, Ron, because all those special interests know that this is not your typical campaign. You want to beat John Pletchnik. You run a bunch of ads saying that John's terrible or stupid or wrong, and people scratch their head and go, wow, there are so many commercials saying he's a bad guy, maybe he is. It's very easy to personally attack a representative to attack a person. on an issue, particularly an issue that benefits the taxpayer. They pretty much have to run the attack on you and say, you taxpayer are greedy. You are a bad person. You aren't willing to share. How dear you? I don't know that that kind of advertising is going to resonate when you're telling the voter that they're a terrible person. And they should be ashamed because they can't afford these property taxes that are asking for relief. I think the backlash will be epic. I think if they do spend tens of millions of dollars telling voters that they're selfish and that they won't have roads, police, or fire if they vote for this. I think you could see 80, 90% vote against them because even a majority of Democrats in some polls show they support abolishing property taxes. I think there's a real danger for government here that they are overplaying their hand. The people are already unsatisfied with how government's being run. We see the wastefront and abuse in our face every day. And if you're going to add insult to injury and tell us we're greedy and stupid. stupid because we complain our taxes are too high, get ready for all the bums to be thrown out of office. Let me play you a clip from Ron DeSantis and then I get your reaction to it, okay? I keep you on the line here as I play this. We're looking to give people relief from the high cost of living. I mean, we've had a major inflationary period in American history, one of the most inflationary, groceries, all these things. Who knows what's going to happen with oil? The one thing we control is tax. And so in Florida, local governments get property tax. We don't get at the state. We've got a plush rainy day fund. We've paid down half our debt since I've been governor. I've got all this great stuff. We're doing great. Local governments, when I became governor, were taking in $32 billion. Now they're taking in $60 billion. So the revenues almost doubled in seven years. Why? Because they're assessing the values higher. And the values have gone up. And so we're saying, okay, if you're a Florida resident and you're homesteading your property, that's your primary homesteaded residents.

We think that should be excluded. Now, that's about 30% of the overall property tax revenue if you just did it on day one. So it's got to go on the ballot in November of 2026. And it would be something that would be phased in, most likely. But we could get to a point very quickly in Florida where 90-some percent are not paying anything. And eventually we'd phase in the elimination. So it can be done. And if we don't do anything. They're going to have $84 billion in revenue in 2031. So that's 12, 13 years to go from 32 to 84. So when people will say, you can't do it, you're not going to have any services. Just ask them, did we not have schools and police in 2019 when they were taken in $32 billion? Of course we did. Now, give them inflation, give them population growth, give them a couple percent just for kicks on a Saturday night. That takes you at about 46 or 47 billion. It doesn't take you to 60. So how would you want to do that? Maintain the growth of these governments or give Floridians really historic property tax relief. What do you think, John? I say exactly, and we see those numbers parallel in Ohio. As Ron DeSantis said, we've had the highest inflation in the last 40 years. That's pumped up home values, that's pumped up property taxes. It's a crisis that we all saw coming. And if we look at government spending, specifically the Ohio State budget in 2019, it was about $69 billion per year. Now it's over $100 billion. That's a more than $30 billion delta. That's more than all we collect in property taxes. We could abolish property taxes in Ohio and have $10 billion to spare if we just went back to 2019 levels of spending. So to the governor's point, the numbers show very clearly. that abolishing property taxes isn't some kind of crazy or apocalyptic idea that would throw government into bankruptcy and mean we have no services, it would be an adjustment. It would force government to go from constantly spending more, even outpacing the rate of inflation, to force being constantly more efficient. And that's the government that people rightly expect. And that's not a big ask in a state like Ohio, Ron, that is clearly overspending. Florida is efficient and they're still becoming more efficient. We don't even have to become efficient to save money. We just have to stop wasting so much. There's so much low-hanging fruit. There's so much waste fraud and abuse. I mean, we can pay for these exemptions with just the waste.

So just to clarify, you think we'll get enough signatures. I mean, I thought it was impressive how many signatures were gotten in that short period of time by a volunteer effort. I thought the results were quite impressive, and I think it's a monumental hill to climb, but I think with the time frame being there, and remember, he wants a large cushion, Brian Thomas Massie, and justly so. If we get there, and I think there is a real possibility of that. that it can get on the ballot. And I get nervous because I can hear those attack ads. If you vote for this, you're going to be paying high income tax. If you vote for this, you're not going to have police services or whatever. I can almost hear them put together and funded by the school systems and everybody else benefits for property taxes. Ron, I just don't think people believe it. I think they're floating those threats because they know it won't actually work. If they were confident that those type of negative ads telling the taxpayer, you're greedy, you're stupid, pay your taxes, shut up, eat your broccoli, pay your taxes, if they really thought that would work, Ron, they wouldn't be showing their hand and threatening this is what we're going to do. They would just quietly wait until it got on the ballot and then dump those ads. The reason that they're telling us, quote, unquote, what they're going to do is they know it won't work. They know you're not attacking a person or a candidate here. You're not even attacking an issue. To win this fight, you have to attack the taxpayer themselves. You have to say, Ron Verb, Mr. Taxpayer, you're a greedy, stupid idiot. And if you vote to lower your tax, the world will end. Stand by, John. Stand by. Do you find that? Your one stop for at 70. WKBN. 355 in the afternoon. It's 84 degrees on this August 7th. John Plushnik, the Lake County Commissioner, Commissioner, No. A title that you take a great honor in having because you, they call you Commissioner No because you say no to these tax increases, correct? Correct. I'm not sure everyone considers it a compliment, but I take it as one. They call me Commissioner No, because I always vote no on taxes. And while the taxpayer hears that and says, hooray... What a lot of folks don't understand, why do so many good people go bad in politics, the pressure from all the public employees, the pressure from everyone in the building, including elected officials who just want a bigger and bigger budget, they don't like to be told no. And you need to elect strong people who don't have a problem saying no on your behalf. Because the most important person is never in the room when these decisions are made.

We need to remember that we work for the taxpayer, not the folks who want the bonuses, new offices, new buildings, new everything. We work for you. We work for the taxpayer, and that means we need to say no to government. Are you optimistic about the future of this problem being remedied any time quickly? I mean, we had to fight like crazy just against the double homestead exemption here in Mahoning County. And they only did it after they did it in Trumbull County, in Columbia County, to be able to get that. And it's just a small benefit that you get to keep your money. But we need more reform. I mean, we... And Ron, I will say, I know your show had a big impact there. I talked to the commissioners in Trumbull. I talk to the commissioners in Mahoning, and I know that this conversation has had a positive influence. The people's voices were heard. That's a good thing. But to your point, doubling the homestead exemption, that's another $500 in the pocket of a senior. That's important. That's not nothing. But we have a lot more to go. And do I believe we can make it? Yes, I do. Ron, I can't predict the future, but my best insight into where things are going is that property taxes are going to go down in a big way next year. They're either going to go down because the state legislature sees that Brian Thomas Massie and the movement have enough signatures to abolish property taxes. They panic and they cut our taxes in a big way to try to head that off at the pass and say, hey, instead of abolishing property taxes, would you accept this? Or the state legislature continues to ignore us, won't even exempt seniors, won't even freeze. Home values at sales price won't make the modest reforms you and I've talked about. And then the people say, you know what? You haven't heard our voice. We're taking all the money back. And that's when you see the amendment go on the ballot and pass overwhelmingly. So I think next year is the year when we see Ohio property taxes go down in a big way. Whether they're abolished or not, I think that comes down to the state legislature. Because I think a majority of people... would probably accept some pretty big cuts and take that. But if the state legislature continues to do nothing or to pass sweet little nothings that cut future increases but leave the taxes on the books as they are, then I think the people of Ohio are going to stand up and say not enough and abolish property taxes next year. Can you stand by and can you give me a few more minutes, John? Absolutely. All right. I'll come back with him. After the break here at 4. Terrific guy. Glad to have him. We'll be back. Mike Rowe here.