An Extended Interview with Long-Time Civil Rights Attorney , Ron Kuby

From Pacifica Radio in San Francisco, this is FlashPoint. I'm Dennis Bernstein today on the show. An extended interview with longtime civil rights attorney Ron Kubi. Kubi has been taking notes on the New Jersey standoff at an ice jail that hunger strikers being held inside referred to as a concentration camp. Edwin Lopez Cornejo died a horrible debt there August 1st. His family and friends insist he didn't have to die. We're going to talk about that. Later on in the broadcast, singer-songwriter David Rovix pays us a visit, a musical visit. All this and more coming up straight ahead on flashpoints. Stay tuned. and you're listening to flashpoints on pacifico radio my name is dennis verrenstein this is your daily investigative news magazine well there is an independent investigation into the death of a salvadoran man who died while in u.s immigration and customs enforcement custody at a newark new jersey detention center his name is edwin lopez He died August 1st while being held at the Delaney Hall, a privately operated immigration detention facility in Newark, that's New Jersey. During a gathering Tuesday, Lopez Conejo's family and supporters demanded answers, arguing his death may very well have been preventable. Joining us to talk about this is long-term civil rights attorney, and we're happy to have him, always happy to have him, Ron Kuby, who sort of, as I knew him, came through the offices of William Consular then took over those offices and has been doing extraordinary work ever since. Ron, you've been taking notes about what's been going on down and around this private prison, and now there's another death. This isn't the first death, is it? This is the second death this year. at that specific detention facility, Delaney Hall. It's the, I believe, 52nd death in ICE custody since Trump assumed office for his second term. All right. And what do we know about what happened here and about what's happening in terms of ice and their behavior? What are some of the problems? Yeah. I mean, the fundamental problem, and this is...

been a persistent problem in everything related to ICE, from the killing of Alex Preti to the death of Edwin Lopez Cornillo, to the various confrontations with protesters. There's absolutely no transparency and no accountability. So all we know is that Mr. Lopez Cornell was taken to an outside hospital by ICE, suffering on unspecified medical emergency, and he was pronounced dead when he went to that particular hospital, university hospital in New Jersey. We know from his family that he had diabetes, and he also was an epileptic, and these were both being managed by medication. We don't know if he got his medication. We don't know if his medication was late. We have no information. And there's almost no practical ability to get it. Certainly, we can obtain information. The family can obtain information from the hospital. as to his condition when he was brought in and a medical history that ICE slash geo group provided. But in terms of getting their papers, their documents, their protocols, the names of people who were on duty, all of those things, it's utterly opaque. I mean, not only do the agents wear masks, but there's no practical ability to. access any of these documents. And I just, I want to talk about how extraordinary that is. Please. Let's take to the police department. You can take the police department where you are or NYPD or any police department. Uniformly, so to speak, the cops. wear badges, even if they're in a undercover capacity, they have badges, they have to produce their badges after making an arrest. So you know who these people actually are that you may be filing a complaint against. There are locally elected district attorneys who have the power to investigate this police misconduct. There are frequently civilian complaint review bodies where you can file complaints against the officers whose names you now know because of that like badge thing we talked about. And there's civil recourse along fairly clear legal channels. If your rights have been violated by police officer operating under color of state law, you can proceed either in federal court or you can proceed in state court and try to receive both discovery to find out what they say happened as well as perhaps damages if you can prove your case.

These are all very clear procedures. They don't work as well as they should, certainly. And many a brutal, murderous, corrupt police officer has avoided justice. But at least there is some sort of transparent process in place that you can support or put pressure on or decry. Here, there's nothing. There's no practical ability to access this system, the DHS system, at any point. You can file a complaint with the Trump-appointed Inspector General, I suppose, who has been repeatedly accused himself of misconduct. Good luck with that. You can file a lawsuit if you can identify the people who were responsible. Do you sue Geo Group? Do you sue the federal government? Do you sue both? Who's responsible? What do the contract provisions say? We have no idea. And it's so bad that just on July 23rd. The most Trumpian inspector general, who is the DHS inspector general, issued a report talking about the problems that ICE is experiencing in integrating medical records, accessing medical information, having up-to-date medical information, leading to the substantial possibility of bad diagnoses and bad decision-making. And ICE would not even give the most Trumpian Inspector General read only copies of their documents. They hid their own documents from their own Inspector General instead. submitting extracts of data. So if Trump's favorite inspector general, the guy who avoided being purged the last time. If he can't even get DHS to cooperate, to get ICE to cooperate, what hope do any of us have? And that's why this is all so frustrating. There's no clear, there's not even an opaque path to finding out what happened, why it happened, and to try to make sure it doesn't happen again. No, there's only one thing going on, which is clear in terms of from the Trump administration. They want more people as many as possible. They want to hire more. They don't even care who the people are that they're hiring. They want to hire people. They want to hire people. They want to gather people and they want to deport.

This is a deportation program, isn't it? This is what people are facing at this point. Everything leads towards, you're going to get the hell out of this country one way or another. Well, yeah, I mean, that was very much what Trump announced he was going to do. It's very much what the Senate and the House enabled him to do with funding, and it's very much what he's doing. But within that, there are some things that make this system particularly malignant. The easiest way to get people out of the country. is for them to self-deport. And a number of people who have not yet found themselves in ICE custody have opted for self-deportation, many people simply because, you know, why wait? Why wait to be taken into custody unless you have, you know, compelling reasons to stay here, as most immigrants do? But those who don't have self-deported. So how do you get people in detention? to say, I'm not going to fight my case. I'm not going to challenge. I don't want a court appearance. Where do I sign to get my plane ticket? Well, you keep them in conditions that are conducive to them desperately desiring to leave. I mean, it's not a difficult kind of analysis to make. You want to keep people in bad conditions, poor access to hygiene materials, crappy food, arbitrary rules, interrupted family visits, bad medical care, all of those kinds of things where people eventually will say, okay, you know, Bastaya, just, you know, let me sign the papers and let me get out of here.

And then what? Well, and then what, indeed. I mean, and then what is, is. Okay. Hope, you know, and look, I'm not. I mean, the situation, I guess, you know, there's, I'm getting messages all different kinds of ways from people who are working in and out of this system. And there's a lot of suffering going on and incredible fear. As you know, in the Haitian community, it's overwhelming. So there's pressures going on all different ways. You know, it really does seem like we're heading for some serious madness and real suffering. People, as we're talking about, people already starting to die, but this could get a lot worse. And Trump does seem hell-bent on this purge. I mean, that's what we're doing. That's the bottom line, isn't it? I wish there was a better one. Right. And the only way that can change is if the Democrats as... kind of pathetic as they are, as a party, managed to capture the House and provide some legislative oversight. Senate would be even better, but the only solutions in existence right now are really electoral solutions, legislative solutions, rather than legal ones. Here in New York, for example, we had a very... nice law that was passed prohibiting ice agents from wearing masks. And that was declared unconstitutional, actually by a good federal judge because it is unconstitutional. The Supremacy Clause takes precedence over local laws and local authorities can't regulate federal officials in this matter. Federal officials and federal legislators can regulate federal officials. And that's very clear. So the actions that state and local authorities have attempted to take have been. You know, utterly, utterly ineffective. And, you know, that sadly remains the case. There have been some successful lawsuits dealing with what procedures have to be followed for immigrant hearings. And you can't move a detainee from jurisdiction to jurisdiction in order to defeat.

the legal jurisdiction of the first court who has it, a bunch of habeas corpus petitions have been granted. But those are helping individual people, which look, that's what I do. I'm all for that. But if you're talking about, you know, dismantling this system, or at least transforming this system, it has to come at this point from legislation. Yeah. All right. Well, anything else we should know about what we should be afraid about in terms of new laws, laws disappearing. What's your number one concern as you watch the kind of people we're watching control? the highest seats of power. I mean, the dangers are endless. Certainly, do you think anybody will ever prosecute Trump for making $2 billion in the first week? I mean, is this a lawless? I'm sorry. I mean, what do you think about all this? Lawlessness? I think Trump's grift and corruption. is the kind of thing that disturbs independence and even some Republicans. Frankly, given all of the things that he is doing, to the extent that he's spending time on lining his own pockets rather than enabling the genocide in Gaza or bombing Iran more or, you know, demanding spurious prosecutions against people. That's fine. You just go ahead. You sit in your counting house and count all your money. It's the thing that kind of bothers me the least, but it tends to bother regular people a lot more. But there's no presidents of the United States don't get prosecuted, no matter what they do. I mean, look, I just, you know, not for nothing, Delaney Hall was always a drug rehabilitation center. It was named after someone who was a foremost feminist authority on drug addiction and mental illness. And she was outspoken, one of the very first women to be outspoken well before Betty Ford. I mean, the president who turned it into a detention facility, gosh, he was the president in 2011. Yeah, no, that wasn't Trump, was it? That was Barack Obama? I don't think so. Maybe, maybe, you know, that was good President Obama. I mean, let's face it, Theo, as awful as Trump is, and I'm not really comparing them to Obama and Biden, as awful as he is, this structure. that he's been able to build on was put in place by the Obama and Biden administrations. Yeah. Oh, and let's not forget how Clinton helped the Haitians. Right, right, exactly. But the specific deportation structure was just waiting for somebody, you know, basically we're, you know, carceral deportation.

you know, hotels with no services just waiting to be filled, and Trump has now filled them. So again, there's not going to be any accountability, but we can try to put an end to this, you know, which is something very different from punishing the perpetrators. All right. Well, we thank you for spending some time with us, Mr. Kubi. Yeah, and at least now, after this, you have at least David Rovick to make us, you know, feel less hopeless. So that's the idea. I was thinking to give him my time as far as that goes, but that's your call. So always a pleasure to be with you and your audience, Dennis. All right. Listen, take it easy. We always appreciate the good information. One of these days, I'm going to get you to spend the whole hour. reminding us who William Consler was and what his influence may have been. And certainly some of his cases are worth remembering. Anyway, we... All right, I'll talk to the children about that wonderful man in a few years or so. I'm sure they want to sit down. Yes. Leave you alone. All right, listen, I think I went to high school with your wife. We might as well put it all out on the table. But you never dated her, did you? Gotta go. Let's hear David Rovick, okay? Love you, Dennis. All right, be safe. And you're listening to Flash Points on Pacifica Radio. And that's, we're going to go to David Rovix a little bit early. He is my favorite these days political folk singer on the road doing good, telling the people's story, speaking truth to power with his guitar. And, well, let's go. I think we got a song, they are queued up. I can't remember the name, but let's just go right to it.

Martin Soto is a doating father, and he did nothing wrong, just trying to live on this planet and somehow get along. He had gone out for some diapers, and life took a terrible twist. Now he's held in detention, lamenting the time he's missed. Playing with his children. from whom he's been apart while they're with their mother each with a broken heart while their poppy is in prison kidnapped there and then and they all wonder every moment when they can see him again while all over the country you can hear people say From Texas to New Jersey, Happy Father's Day. Martin Soto is in prison, though that's not what they call. The cells with rats and food with worms in Delaney Hall. The beatings and the sickness, the humiliation and the death, oh, they're all on hunger strike. to the last breath while all over the country you can hear people say from Texas to New Jersey happy father's day so many weeks without eating a single mule martin has lost so much weight who knows if he can heal of the abuse, the torture and neglect. When people cross our border, is this what they should expect? While all over the country, you can hear people say, from Texas to New Jersey, Happy Father's Day. Will Martin Soto have a chance? to see his family. What about all the others across this lawless country? Is xenophobic hatred? All that we have got. Do human rights exist? Are we part of this world or not? All over the country, you can hear people say from Texas to New Jersey. Father's Day all over the country you can hear people say from Texas to New Jersey Happy Father's Day

We are back. You're listening to FlashPoints on Pacifica Radio. I want to let you know that in this week, we're going to be presenting, as we do on Thursdays, the electronic antifada newscast. The situation on the ground, there is... is brutal, and so I want to let people know that we'll be doing a lot more reporting from the ground. I obviously want to let you know that... that we have the electronic intifada newscast on KPFA are very important these days. On Tuesdays at 11 with Norbarus Friedman, so you could hear a powerful hour of the intifada. And again, we're getting more and more reports about devastation happening in the West Bank. more and more cooperation between settlers and soldiers. And so we will be doing a lot more reporting on that. And again, we're going to feature, as we do every Thursday tomorrow, the extended newscast from the electronic antiphonis. We want you to stay tuned for that as well. And I'm... delighted to be joined by his hero of mine, David Rovix. He's a wonderful folk singer. He speaks for the people. He travels with his guitar and he makes a difference with music and really A musician like you, David, a troubadour, one of the things that you do is bring hope. And a lot of times, these are troubled times and it's hard to find a place to feel good. And yet you show up with that guitar and you speak to people. How did you ever become a troubadour? Somebody who travels around singing for the people. How did that happen? It was a sort of a roundabout process, I guess, that started out with, well, being raised by musicians, I suppose, and then kind of went from there. I kind of figured out at a pretty early age that music is a powerful way to tell a story. Just realizing that my microphone is not plugged in here. Is that the problem more happy? Are you? And the sound quality is probably not nearly as good as it will be if I plug in the microphone. It sounds okay? Okay, I guess I'm being picked up by the webcam instead of this mic I'm speaking right into, but if it sounds okay then that's good. All right, well, uh, look.

Okay, I think we're doing just fine. Yeah, it sounds okay, okay. And yeah, and so how did it, you know, how did it evolve? Well, yeah, please. It was, um, I mean, it was not a sort of a natural evolution, I suppose. It started out with just going to a summer camp, actually, in western Massachusetts, run by a Unitarian minister. And there were people from the anti-war or the anti-nuke movement coming through and singing songs. And that was my first taste of this. power that you could you could have by communicating this way it was it was you could educate people while at the same time bringing hope and and you know sort of people playing around a campfire could be something that could bring people together help sort of people feel like they're part of a community and and bring hope to people even if regardless of how hopeful the situation may be. And what do you, for instance, how do you approach a subject? How do you, you read extensively, you've written some powerful pieces about a situation in Palestine. Is there something you try and do? Is there, are you listening for the speech, for the struggle? How do you work? Sorry, I lost you there. It's so often it'll be on some news program where there will be a wonderful turn of phrase even if it's just some horrible image or it could be an inspiring image but it's some kind of some kind of thing that that makes me realize oh this is a hook line this can be a hook line and this can sort of bring the whole thing together. I guess you just played Happy Father's Day, and that's sort of an example. I mean, they, I think it was it quite, it wasn't quite Father's Day, but it was almost Father's Day. Maybe it was Father's Day when they arrested him, but it just seemed like the obvious, the obvious connection, because it was, it was in any case right around Father's Day. It's any kind of a little phrase or, or concept that really humanizes the subject. at hand you know and makes makes you identify with them in a universal kind of sense all right well listen uh let's let's listen to a little uh more of your work uh and what was the second piece you sent along let's see there's the um the well the um uh insider trading peace talks docee do which is um

Well, I mean, you know, the crazy reality, I think it's now somebody counted 38 times since the most recent attacks on Iran on February 28th. It's been 38 times that Trump has said we're going to have a, we're having peace talks, and then a few days later says we're going to start bombing again. And he often starts bombing on a. on a Friday and starts with the talk about peace talks on a Monday. And it's all about, you know, now he's got the new API for his true social posts so you can pay $100,000 a month and see them early. And, you know, it's all about insider trading. And it's the most blatant form of corruption that you could possibly imagine. But this is the insider trading peace talks docee do, if you want to do that one. Let's go for it. I think we got it there. When they started up the war, it was understood for our ailing economy. It would be good. Just a little carnage to stimulate the stocks. You gotta seize the moment when opportunity knocks. Buy when it's low. Sell when it's high. Who cares how many people in the process have to die? Sell when it's high. Buy when it's low to the insider training. Peace talks doce-toe.

The tricks are pretty simple. You just lie and deceive. Drop a bunch of bombs. Lead investors to believe. Say peace is coming soon. Then tell your buddies when. You'll announce the talks collapsed. We'll have to bomb again. Buy when it's low. Sell when it's high. Who cares how many people in the process have to die? Sell when it's high. Buy when it's low do the insider trading. Peace talks docee-do. With the missiles flying, the traders will be keen to make the big investments in the war machine. But with peace on the horizon, it's time for speculation in any of the Western world's oil corporations. Why, when it's low, sell when it's high, who cares how many people in the process have to die? Sell when it's high. When it's low to the insider trading peace talks. Doceido. Buy when it's low. Sell when it's high. Who cares how many people in the process have to die? Sell when it's high. Buy when it's low to the insider trading peace talks doceido.

David Roeux. And David, how do you get your gigs? Do you work with? Do you reach out to organizations? How do you set up your tours? And how do you work in terms of different issues or talk to us a little bit more about your work? Yeah. It's basically, I mean, at this stage in the game, I often just already know the people who I'm working with in different places. But I'm always meeting new folks and often is about what songs I'm writing. I actually, you know, make a lot of the contacts that I make depend on what I'm writing about. So lately, actually a very significant amount of my audience is Iranian on Facebook and Instagram in particular. And I'm plugging in this microphone. Can you hear that? You know what? I think we're having some real technical problems on my end. A bit of a hard time hearing. I really apologize for that. I think it's on my end. And I think I just fixed it, hopefully. I just plugged in a microphone, which was missing. It's mic chord. Did that? Or is that? Well, Rod, our engineer, points out, from his perspective, we both sound fine. So I'm hoping he's right. I sound a lot better now to me. All right. Well, you were saying, I'm sorry about that. Yeah, I'm sorry. This is my complete lack of professionalism. I have this beautiful setup with a really nice podcasting mic and all this kind of stuff. And then I left the mic cable in the car. Do you have your guitar there? Do you have your guitar next to you? You want to play live in the phone? See, now I'm on Zoom. So, I mean, if we're on, if we're doing the original musical sound, I mean, it's complicated. Okay. I could try it, but it's unlikely. Here's what I'd like to do. Here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to. You play one more MP3. I'll get set up for that. Okay. We have one. We have. We have one more song we would like to. It's called, I believe you call it the Holocaust song. You want to talk a little bit about the song and we're going to play that and then we're going to let you go and I don't know, maybe we'll play music and I'll take some phone calls. Anyway, tell us about this final song, please.

Well, this is another one I wrote. I mean, these are all songs I've written very recently. And I mean, since the genocide and Gaza, the Israeli genocide began in 2023, I've written about 100 songs on the subject. I'm trying to. just get to different aspects of it and try to reach people in whatever ways i can and um this is a theme that i just keep on coming back to as you keep on coming back to on your show i know um that this the the just completely intolerable uh reality that you have uh people descended from holocaust survivors who are committing genocide and that is just you know what's what's going on and what's been happening for a long time but in in the way that it's happening now it's just uh well it's just got to be stated in as many different possible ways as possible you know so it's just what i'm trying to do just like with uh you know what annette with uh our favorite poet uh anita barrows is doing every day you know just trying to find a new angle to talk about the same thing yeah Absolutely. All right, well, let's listen to this song, and we thank you for all the good work that you do with your guitar. Thanks so much, Dennis, and I'm so sorry for the technical stuff here, which is entirely important. We'll keep listening. We'll keep listening, and you are listening to FlashPoint on Pacific Radio. This is David Robex.

Look around the world. Wars are everywhere. People running for the borders trying to get out of there. Bad as it is in Sudan or the DRC as bad as it is in so many countries. There's only one where our allies keep the people inside a concentration camp where they're committing genocide. Only one place on the planet where no one can get out where what's happening now leaves no doubt. The Holocaust is now. Holocaust is now. You can wonder all day how this could be going on in the 21st century. You could wonder even more how the genocides could be dissented from genocide survivors, but that's how it is. The facts are inescapable if your eyes are open and the facts are on the table. Can you spend $200 to buy a loaf of bread? Neither can they. They're dying instead. The Holocaust is now.

cost is now The killers know they don't need fancy weaponry, starvation and disease kills so quietly. Plague is upon them rats are eating children sewage by their beds, nowhere they can run. Infrastructure ruined, completely decimated, nothing left in the ghetto but the emaciated or the bodies buried beneath what used to be plazas and what was what's a place called Gaza. The Holocaust is now. is now

Since the so-called ceasefire, thousands died from being bombed and starved and eaten alive. The black death was nothing compared to Gaza now. Look to Auschwitz if you want to see how. They're killing off the people systematically using all the latest high technology. Industrial slaughter like the world has not seen since the days of Hitler's regime. The Holocaust is now. is now the holocaust is now the holocaust is now And again, you're listening to FlashPoints on Pacifica Radio as Dennis Ferrancy is your daily investigative news magazine. Again, I want to urge you to tune in to the show tomorrow where we will be featuring our regular weekly. collaboration with Code Pink. And then, of course, we will have the extended newscast from the electronic endufana with Nora Bowers Friedman. And the situation on the ground from all accounts is absolutely horrific. The situation in Gaza, more expanded violence, technological violence. It's unbelievable. And now things are really heating up in... the West Bank, the settlers are collaborating well with the Israeli soldiers and the death toll is rising there. And there are all kinds of threats about when major attacks are going to happen. And so we will be there tomorrow. We'll get the newscast from Nora, do some special programming. around that. Again, we're here. My name is Dennis Bernstein. It's flashpoints on Pacifica Radio. I ran into a little bit of a technical problem. Maybe it's just my microphone problem. I'm not even sure. Both... Anyway, we ran into a little problem. But we're going to play for you a good chunk of our interview we did yesterday, our frontline interview on the situation in Haiti. This is Robert Roth for Haiti Action Committee. Listen to this. In the United States, I'm remembering... One of the high points of my life was walking through the streets of Katie Porter Prince with President Aristide, John Bertrand Aristide, and seeing the extraordinary love. He didn't need a protection team. He didn't need a security team. We were out in the streets by the thousands in Katie Porter Prince, a beloved leader. One more example.

of the United States government destabilizing a peoples who had fought everything for years, for decades, to have their own say, their own democracy, their own free speech structure of a country. But the United States couldn't stand it. And now the suffering and the situation has gotten much worse. And we're going to keep talking about it. We're not going to let you forget. Joining us is co-founder of Haiti Action Committee here in Berkeley and the Bay Area. And we're happy to have Robert Roth. with us again doing some extraordinary work to keep us posted. Robert, it's good to have you back. Maybe you can, you know, go over the situation as it stands now. Some people know, and we've been reporting, but I think it's important for people to understand what the situation is now and how bad this can get. Right. Well, thank you, Dennis. And thanks for the drumbeat coverage of Haiti that you've done for years now. And, you know, we are. We're in one of those critical moments where education and activism are more important than ever. And so to be able to continue to... you know, to focus on Haiti, you know, which is representative of a lot of other struggles in the world as well, is really important. In terms of updating the situation, starting on July 27th, 350,000 Haitians who have been here on temporary protected status, PPS, lost their work permits as a prelude to what we believe will be mass deportations of Haitians and 6,100 Syrians who also lost their work permits. And in terms of Haitians, many of these folks have been here for... close to 30 years, having come in the wake of the horrific earthquake in 2010 that killed over 300,000 people and left over 2 million without shelter. And others have come more recently in the wake of hurricanes, another earthquake, and the escalating violence in the society committed by paramilitary death squads, as well as the Haitian government. And these 350,000 Haitians are our neighbors, there are home health care providers, there are our friends, our families, they own small businesses, and they've brought economic revival to one community after another. And now they're in the crosshairs of ice, and we know what that means. Like it means a violent hunt for Haitians throughout the country.

And over the next months, we'll see that, you know, and we're, of course, going to, like, build resistance to that. And it's one more evidence that the administration is committed to ethnic cleansing, which is really what this is, to getting rid of as many people of color as they can, as many black people as they can, as they try to make their white supremacist dreams a reality. And, you know, I wanted to just give you, like, two... two examples of how cruel and in humane this policy has been, and we know it will only get worse in the coming period in Springfield, Ohio, which, as you remember, was the target of Trump and JD Vance during the 2024, when they vilified Haitians for supposedly eating the pets of their neighbors. And, you know, and since that time, Haitians have been threatened, you know, really been targeted in Ohio as well as other places, but in specific in Springfield. And Haitians have been defended by their neighbors, by their employers, by people who know and love them in Springfield. So there's been a lot of resistance. in Springfield and what we just found out is that Haitians who have been on TPS and also were here on Biden's so-called humanitarian parole program they've been receiving calls to report to immigration offices in Ohio and when they do most of them have been fitted with ankle bracelets as they leave with no explanation and so they're already fearful and threatened Haitians have like been calling out this practice as like another cruel attempt to humiliate them, to terrorize them, and to criminalize them. And so we have to see that as part of an overall pattern of the Trump administration, criminalizing migrants, criminalizing refugees, criminalizing people of color in the society. And in another instance, a 56-year-old Haitian asylum seeker died in March from severe throat and chest infections, which were caused by complications from, tooth infection while he was in U.S. immigration and customs enforcement custody in Arizona. And he and his family had been pleading for weeks for medical care, and he never received it. And yesterday, we know that a Salvadoran refugee was 41 years old, Edwin Lopez Cornell, and was being held at the infamous Delaney Hall in Newark. Newark, New Jersey, which has been the site of numerous protests demanding better medical care and the end of abusive treatment, he died in custody. And the family and his community are besieging ICE for an explanation of what happened so far they've been Stonewall.

Let me just jump in here. I'm sorry to interrupt. I want to let people know that tomorrow we will have legal counsel for the camp there. We're going to hear all about that case and how that person died. I'm sorry for interrupt. No, no, no, no. And it's so important that, you know, those of us who are. fighting to defend Haitians or also defending Salvadorans and Syrians and anybody else who was in the, you know, the crosshairs of ice. And, you know, and we know that this is going to continue and that the treatment inside these detention facilities is horrific, you know, and so along with deportations are going to come increased detentions and increased danger to all those who are detained. Now, in regards to Haiti, like, and this is, of course, and we've talked about this, but I agree with you, we have to keep focusing on it, bring it up again and again. In regards to Haiti, the U.S. has made it crystal clear that Haiti is not a safe place for U.S. citizens to travel. And if you look at the State Department advisory around Haiti, it's shocking, like they say. establish, and this is a quote, establish a proof of life protocol with your loved ones. If you are kidnapped, your loved ones will know specific questions and answers to ask the kidnappers to confirm that you are being held captive and are alive. Second, choose one family member to serve as a point of contact. If you're kidnapped or taken hostage, that person can communicate. with kidnappers or hostage takers. And finally, prepare a will, designate appropriate insurance beneficiaries, or prepare a power of attorney. And this advisory is for U.S. citizens when Stephen Miller that the Nazi immigration anti-immigration like point person for the Trump administration was asked about this. He said, well, that's just for U.S. citizens. Haitians should return to their country. It's their country. They need to be there. All right. Now, what's interesting about that, of course, is that Haiti has been occupied by the U.S. and other foreign nations for decades. And, you know, when Miller says Haiti is for Haitians, like, it's so ironic. What he means is that for Haitians, it's okay to send them back into a place which has been turned into a hell on earth. And that's because Haitians are different. than American citizens. I mean, Trump said that Haitians here are poisoning the blood supply of the U.S., right? And this, again, you know, we have to see this. This is the kind of language that the Nazis use. And we're in a situation where that kind of mentality is driving policy towards Haitians and towards so many other refugees. So we're in a serious crisis and we have to respond.

That is so extraordinary. We're speaking with Robert Roth, we're a Haiti action here in the Bay Area. Robert, maybe I want to talk more about, get more into what's happening on the ground in Haiti as well, but there is... an action and there's going to be an interfaith public memorial tomorrow in the context of Haiti. You want to tell us just a little bit about that? Maybe people want to be a part of that. That's for people in the Bay Area. Yeah, please. Yes, yes. Well, it's going to be tomorrow at 11 a.m. There is a memorial at the ICE headquarters on 630. Sandsome Street, San Francisco. It's going to be a vigil. And then there's a planned procession to 333 Bush Street, which is the headquarters for both senators Alex Padilla. Just letting you know that this event happened today already. There'll be reports later on. So there's no thing tomorrow. It happened. We can go back. We can go back. In support of Haitian refugees, Syrian refugees, and all refugees who are in the target, who are the targets of ICE. And, you know, over the last number of weeks, like Senator Perdilla signed on to support a bill in the Senate that has, you know, that it would extend KPS for three years. But. Schiff had not. And after hundreds of calls came to his office, we heard today that he's also signed on for that bill, which is just, you know, like to really emphasize that the pressure that we can exert on the grassroots level is key in this situation, whether it's to get senators to sign on to a bill to extend TPS, whether it's to really push. As deportations rev up, to push for resistance, both obviously at the grassroots level, but also in Congress and in other government agencies locally here in the Bay Area. So we have that kind of power if we use it and if we see this time as critical for us to exercise it. Again, we're speaking with Robert Roth of Haiti action. Bob, I want to talk to you about the situation on the ground in Haiti. I mentioned in the opening that I had a chance to walk the streets with President Harris. He didn't need protection. There was an extraordinary moment in which it looked like the Haitian people were finally going to have their right to self-determination. That was a beautiful time. Do you remember that time? And how does that compare to what it is like now? on the ground in Haiti. Well, you know, I do remember that time. And, you know, I was in Haiti, along with Pierre, La Beaucierre, and a number of other internationals were in Haiti when President Aristide and his wife and colleague, Mildred Aristide, returned from their forced exile in South Africa in 2011. And we experienced the exact same thing.

that you're talking about, Dennis, thousands and thousands of people following their car as it went from the airport to where they were living, the compound in which they're now living. And when we got there, thousands of people climbed over the walls of the compound, stayed in the courtyard for hours and hours and hours, and rather than it be threatening, you know because there were literally thousands of people including people on the roofs right i was scared chanting for hours and hours, like it was welcomed by the Aristides because these were supporters. And the situation in Haiti right now is a direct result of the 2004 coup against the Aristide government, which was the most progressive in Haiti's history, right? Taxing the rich, building more schools than it ever been built in the entire. history of the country, devoting massive funds to health care, leading an initiative to educate folks about AIDS, you know, like just, you know, beginning to like really help foster domestic agriculture. You know, the beginnings of a fundamental change in Haitian society that was welcomed by the overwhelming majority of Haiti's people. And yes, it's over 20 years later, but those kind of events have a deep, deep impact on a society. And Haiti's never recovered. The paramilitaries that are now, the paramilitary death squads that are now operating in Haiti were empowered. by the series of illegitimate governments that were put in charge of Haiti by the U.S. following that coup in 2000. And that was a segment of our interview with Robert Roth of Haiti action, talking about the situation on the ground in Haiti, and the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Haitians in this country who were on the run or in hiding or terrified about what's going to happen next. This is a very terrible time for folks who have been such friends to those of us here in the United States. We're going to continue reporting on this. listening to FlashPoint on Pacifica Radio. Please stay tuned. And that does it for another episode of FlashPoint. Our executive producer is Dennis Bernstein.

Senior producers, Miguel Gavallon Malina and Kevin Pina. Technical producer Rod Akil, our theme music written and produced by Charlie Lang. For questions and comments, email Dennis Bernstein at Dennis at KPFA.org. Thank you for listening. promote whatever keeps you scrolling. Corporations fund whatever protects the bottom line. KPFA answers to something different. The people listening. When you become a monthly guardian, you help build a dependable foundation for independent news, cultural programming, radical conversations, and music selected by people who actually care about what you hear. Make a difference today. Champion Independent Radio right now. Stand with KPFA at this very moment by becoming a monthly guardian at KPFA.org. This is 94.1, KPFA and 89.3, KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1, KFCF in Fresno, and online everywhere at kpFA.org.