Chris Madel has plenty to say about his client, St. Paul Police Chief Axel Henry, and St. Paul Mayor Kaohly Her

They try to make this also into, oh, it's just this one text message, this one meme. That was one of the things that the straw that broke the proverbial camels back with Chief Henry. If it was just that, would Henry have done anything? I think what... What Chief Henry told the investigators, and he has been as sincere since day one, is that he could not have this behavior be modeled for his department, and he was not going to expect somebody to have to come forward if he wasn't going to come forward himself. And that's the, that's it. There was no other ulterior motive behind any of this, zero. And I get that, like now it just seems like it's kind of the Democratic hit parade that's coming out and saying, oh, no, there's a whole other story here. And now they've got the KSTP acting as the mayor's shill with respect to this and not getting the other side of the story. Now, I'll say this. I don't personally know Jay, but Jay's reported on a lot of things. I've never felt like Jay. It's just a DFL shill. Okay. I have no idea if this is accurate. He didn't do his job. Right. He didn't do his job because it's not a secret that I'm representing Chief Henry. Yeah. I presumably he has a phone. He could have picked that up and or emailed me and said, hey, listen, you have a comment on this. He chose not to. That's shoddy journalism 101. And when we're looking at some of the things here that is happening with respect to what's happening, are we really trying to draw a distinction between a mayor going into a gym and complimenting on the breasts of a deputy chief of the St. Paul Police Department who openly has said that one of the reasons for her retirement was because she didn't want to be around this mayor anymore. Are we really trying to say that going into the gym while we're stretching making orgasm sounds? And are we really saying that sending out these sorts of memes saying that this is what somebody looks like after photoshopping a picture of a St. Paul police officer's face onto it and saying this is what they look like after a good wiener. And I'm here to tell you, too, Chad, this ain't it. There's a lot more that is going to be coming out with respect to this story. When will it come out? We're waiting. One of the things that Chief Henry wanted to do, if you notice, he has not talked about any of this stuff. The mayor's office is the one that's letting all this stuff out. I got a call from a New York Times reporter on a Saturday after biking. I thought I was biking a very long... time and then I found out from several people that I practically biked nowhere. Apparently, I'm not that great of a cyclist. But in any event, I got a call from then and saying, what's happening with respect, we took nobody with respect to the story. I think that they're just trying to get up. When did that call happen? I think the Saturday before last Saturday. So we could go this last Saturday, whatever that date was. So until then.

Nobody in the media knew it all. Zero. Zero. And I've obviously... Were you planning on going public in any way? We were going to let the report speak for itself. That's exactly what Chief Henry wanted, and that's exactly what Chief Henry's not. He's still not speaking on any of this stuff because he was told we're not talking about the investigation. Now I'm getting internal documents. Did you tell him not to talk? I have not. No, this is Chief Henry totally on his own. This is a guy, I mean, honestly, It is difficult to describe the amount of integrity and honesty coming from a person than I have seen in Axel Henry. The idea that he has some sort of angle on this thing is just literally absurd to me. Because you know the angle. Jay Coles, I'll just read again from his report. Sources tell I went in his news. These questions came in February and March, right, as the mayor also considered trimming the police budget. I cannot tell you how many people. connected in town, who I want to identify, but their names you know when this report came out said, don't underestimate that this is a battle over the police budget. No. I mean, you know, in a word, the people that you're talking to do not know Axel Henry, either one or number two, they're morons. They don't understand what is happening here. And one of the things I just want to keep backing up from this. If Chad Hartman had done one-tenth of what has come out right now, I would be talking to Chad Hartman in his car on his way home after he got fired. I would be dismissed. Yes. It's not even close. But now what we do is we've got, you know, people I'm one of the people I just heard from the Star Tribune that's given a quote is Ryan Winkler, who, you know, gave a quote to the Star Tribune that I think was about as effective as his run for Hennepin County attorney. And it's just- What did Winkler say? I'm trying to stand up on her behalf. And I think when these people hear what is going to come out, and there's witnesses for the stuff that is going to come out, by the way, and there are documents of the stuff that is going to come out. Okay, so if people say, okay, if people say, and I know you well, and if I don't believe this, okay, people say it's the DFL supporting her, and there's a former Republican... gubernatorial candidate. So this is a Republican against Democrat issue and the politics is all over it, including yourself. You say what? I have matters right now against very significant Republicans. And I also was one of the people, as you well know, involved with respect to the complaint against Brian O'Hara. I am not. the least bit shy about being opposite people that I might agree with with respect to political issues. I will also say that with respect to the mainstream Republican Party, as I know it right now, I'm not one of them. I am just not one of those people. Part of the reason why you jumped out of the race is the... what was happening with Operation Metro Surge. And now you said, I couldn't even look at my family in the eye and say, that represents what I want to be apart. 100%. And that's where, again, if you're looking on a political spectrum, where do I align more on that? If we're getting groups together, I appear to be aligning more with Democrats with respect to that than I do with respect to others. I think that there is a very good reason.

that we have immigration in this country, not the least of which, that there's not a lot of jobs that I don't believe that these people are taking jobs away from, you know, Americans that were born and raised here. I think that that's absurd. But the idea that I'm just doing this in order to be Axel Henry Schill to try to get at a Democratic mayor, it's just, honestly, it's just stupid. And it just underestimates who Axel Henry is. He wouldn't permit that. Even if I, like, wanted this great motivation in order to try to go after Mayor Hur. I haven't lived in St. Paul Chad since 1994. And I live downtown and I worked down there. I love downtown St. Paul. And it was great. Skyways were up until 11. I was a young lawyer. I could make it anywhere. But with respect to that, I really don't have a dog in the St. Paul Hunt other than my client in making sure that people understand this is a man of integrity, this is a man of honesty, and he's doing the right thing. Did you know Axel Henry before? He reached out to or somebody reached out to you about this case. Only by reputation. I've known the St. Paul Union well, and I know Mark Ross, who's the head of the St. Paul Union well. And I just know that everybody in St. Paul, the morale, the St. Paul Police Department's amazing. I mean, it's weird that it's right next to Minneapolis because the difference between the two departments and the morale is incredible. And the... work that the St. Paul Police Department has done in cleaning up that city has been remarkable. I mean, if you just look at the numbers and Chief Henry would be the first one to say, never do, you know, go into the end zone and do a dance on the numbers because we're talking about real people's lives here. He'll be the first one to say it, but their numbers are just amazingly good. Yeah, Ramsey County also with Bob Fletcher. Some of its numbers, don't you think? Some of it's a Minneapolis, just woefully. How do you not? compare without numbers. You know what I mean? You can't really kind of do the, it's the easiest objective comparison. Chris Mattel is here because we can stay with us for a while. More on this issue. When we come back, I'll look at texts. If you want to raise some, you certainly can. 651-461-9-2-26. Right back with Chris Mattel. Let me ask you another part of the report from Jay Coles. This is about the mayor sent Axel Henry, a 2004 police internal affairs investigation that reported sergeant had having sex with his girlfriend in the office while four officers were outside the door. The four officers said they were intimidated by the sergeant has tried to keep things quiet. Henry suspended the sergeant for 30 days without pay, but the mayor reported a question why the suspension wasn't longer. Did that lead to any tension between the police chief and the mayor? None. I mean, these sorts of conversations happen all the time between a mayor and a chief. But I mean, again, just to underline this, why would a police chief of St. Paul, who again...

Axel Henry is not mugging for every camera wearing the tightest shirt possible and trying to get all the cameras to look at him. He's just, he is not that guy. A lot of us didn't even know his name until all this stuff came out because he is the embodiment of somebody that's falling under the radar and just trying to do his job. He is not interested in publicity. Why would he put himself on the line to make these allegations to protect others just to get back? off of a disciplinary report over a cop that was having sex on city property off duty, you know, in order to do that. Yes, but I get that, Chad. But honestly, if sex in the office was some sort of a violation, I've been a lawyer for 34 years, there's about 30% of the partners in law firm, downtown Minneapolis law firms are going to have to be suspended from their job. I will give them to you right as soon as we're done. Okay. The other accusation of people said, no, wait a sec. If this was already to be filed April 1st, why not? Why is it going public months later? Did it just go public because the media was finding out about it? I got the tip from the New York Times reporter and Ernesto Lodondo, and you obviously would not tell me who his source was. I just know it wasn't us. We weren't tipping anybody on this, and it came from somebody within the city of St. Paul. That's all I was told about. If Mayor Hur would have come out last week and said, I was completely wrong. My actions are inexcusable. I made a mistake. I profusely apologize. This will never happen again. I want to repair my relationship with everybody involved. Would Axel Henry still want to work with the mayor? If there is one person that is a big believer in redemption, it's Axel Henry. He really does believe in second chances. It wouldn't surprise me at all. I can't really say that right now because there has been so much that has... transpired that has not come out yet that you will see, you know, when this report comes out. And honestly, if it's not in the report, we're going to make sure that it gets out. When will that report come out? I honestly don't know. Yeah. Month? Two months? I wish I knew. Okay. I wish I knew. So Alpha News this afternoon. Yeah. With this report. Alpha News, good reporting by them. They attained text messages revealing she believed men she encountered. You're talking about the mayor. Yeah, the mayor, collie her. Through a professional political life, ended up developing romantic feelings for her. This is, she wrote in a text message to Shirley Yang in the spring of 2025 while she's in the House of Representatives. Here is the quote. Here's the text she sent. The nature of my work requires a lot of love and passion, otherwise the work is too heavy to carry and the burden too great. I run across this with men more frequently, but men will sometimes mistake it for more. I think they end up falling in love with me, so I've set very clear boundaries. Considering everything has happened with your client, what do you say about that text?

Nothing surprises me on this one more than anything else. I mean, the doctored memes, there's doctored photos that has been reported, the putting your face over things, the orgasming in the gym, the complimenting women's breasts, the other stuff that I'm aware of that hasn't come out yet. Literally, there is nothing that could come out of this mayor's office right now that I'm not going to be, like, I'm going to be surprised about anymore. But I mean that the notion that, you know, apparently men just are attracted to her and immediately fall in love with her, the ego with respect to this is off the charts. You mentioned just in one of the previous answers that... If the report doesn't provide this information, you will. Yeah. Why not provide it now? Why not tell us right here on CCO? Because my client, Chief Henry, believes in the process and he doesn't want it coming out. But I can tell you that the more that I see these documents being leaked by the city of St. Paul, they want to continue to play that game. I will play that game too. And they want to do that. They want to try to get ahead of a news story. They can see how it feels to try to get ahead of the news story, knowing the pictures that I have that I can let out to show exactly what this mayor is all about. This mayor has done some very, to put it mildly. odd behavior, to put it mildly. I'm 59 years old. I have never heard of a person, male or female, going into the gym and stretching and trying to make sounds like an orgasm. That is odd. And the idea that she was somehow, feels betrayed by the St. Paul Police Department to be invited to come in, I can guarantee you from everybody that I've talked to, and I've talked to a lot of cops about this, not one of them was saying, hey, listen, come on into our gym because we all make orgasm sounds together. She was doing that on her own. And the idea that now she's trying to say, well, the only reason you're bringing that up is because of budgets. No, the only reason that we're bringing that up right now, Axel Henry is bringing that up, is because he cannot have that behavior be followed by people in his department and do nothing about it. This is exactly the sort of leader that we want in these positions of power. And when I talk a little about the power there again. This is the chief reports to the mayor. It's not the other way around. So quit acting like she's, oh, these poor cops are picking on me. You're in charge. It's your behavior that is supposed to be modeled not only within the city and also within the department. People are supposed to be looking up to you. They cannot look up to you when you're repeatedly coming up with different excuses.

First, oh, I'm sorry. Second, I feel betrayed. And now, oh, Axel Henry's mad at me. I mean, you can't do that and try to run an effective city government. Grow up. Chris Mattel is here representing Axel Henry. We're talking about the allegations against Mayor Kali Hur. When you hear people say, this in theory is just boys being boys, that... Things that you and your friends might say, me and my friends might say, that she was just trying to fit in female in a boys club and that it's a mistake. but that he is overreacted to it because I ended up getting a lot of those tax last week and I'm sure people have reached out to you along those lines to that line of thinking you say what? Wait till it all comes out because I can't wait, Chad. I can't wait to hear what those people are going to say when they hear what has actually transpired here and which there was a witness with respect to what has transpired here. Because these people, again... Will Mayor Her view this witness as independent? I have no idea what she will be. I mean, I'm apparently, you know, I'm one of the men that might be falling in love with her, so I don't know. I mean, she, you know, Alpha News, you know, getting a hold of those texts. And thank God that they've reported those, because otherwise, you know, others wouldn't, that, you know, with respect to what she thinks, I have no idea. I do know that with respect to Axel Henry in particular. The main thing that he told the investigator, because he got the same question from the investigator, what do you want out of this? Yeah. His main thing was, he said, you know, I want it to stop and I want to rewind my life to go back to that time and have none of this ever have happened. Is he worried, though, now? And he didn't create this situation. But now this is so associated with him. that it's just going to be a part of him when he's doing his normal police work for as long as he does. That it's going to be actually Henry Kama, who was a part of this investigation, the mayor, is now investigating this, that it's just he's going to be so associated with this, and it's unfair because we see it if he's telling the truth, and Mayor hears it differently, but that... If you're on the other end of harassment, one of the reason why people don't speak up is, do I really want that tied to me over and over and over again? And again, It's not just a matter of him telling the truth. This is deputy chiefs. This is other bunch of people coming forward. It's not just Axel Henry. So that's number one. He is not the only one that has experienced this. But you bring up a really good point. And this is the same thing that women have to go through with respect to these sorts of allegations. And you put yourself out there.

that's the one thing that I would just ask people kind of pause on. Why would somebody that is in their 50s that has reached the top of their career do something like this? Well regarded. Good reputation. Do this unless what I am saying is accurate that he actually wanted this behavior to be modeled properly within the department. Tell me what for a budget? I mean, honestly, that makes zero sense whatsoever. Outside of her tax to her friend. Do you believe there's a pattern this when she was in the House of Representatives or before in any other aspects of her life? I just heard, and I have no idea if this is true, but I heard that there is another complaint made in the legislature regarding her recently. I have no idea if that's true, but I heard that from a reporter. I don't know. But all I know is what I have seen, and what I have seen is odd, very odd behavior. particularly for an elected official. I mean, if this were like an employee of somebody, a lower-level employee that's sitting there working for some major corporation, I would go, Sounds like kind of a screws loose. Maybe this might be a person to kind of let go at the next. But when you're the mayor of the city. Yeah, exactly. You're in the mayor of the city. You don't do this. And you certainly don't do this after becoming mayor. And, you know, I don't think that there needs to be a manual someplace that says, hey, by the way, if you're the mayor, don't compliment another woman's breasts, you know, while we'll be in the mayor. And because, again, we got to openly talk about this double standard. If there were you or me? We're done. We are absolutely done. But the very fact that this is a woman mayor right now. Which is also why some people are criticised as Maxwell. Henry is saying, come on, you're a guy. Why are you being too sensitive to it? You know, the double standard still is out there and it's nausea. And when I hear a deputy chief, a woman who I know and who I know is one of the... greatest women badasses that we had in the state talk about how she had to retire early because she didn't want to have to deal with this sort of behavior from her mayor. That breaks my heart. That is not right. None of us should have to go to the job and experience this sort of thing and feel that on a day-to-day basis of having to feel something like the only alternative is for me to quit. That's wrong. Nobody has apologized to her yet. And, you know, the closest that it's come is the mayor said, well, I guess some of my behavior fell short. Now we're trying to push all this on to Chief Henry. It's just wrong. You know, but again, what we're seeing, again, hear from this reporting from Alpha News and the stuff that I've seen, we are just seeing somebody that, frankly, is at best, odd, and at worst unhinged. And I think it's just going to get worse. But I am. loving the fact that some of these Democrats like Ryan Winkler are coming out to her defense because I can't wait to this report comes out and I get to ask them. Because you just feel like they don't have any idea what else is out there. I can't wait to say, okay, defend that, defend that. I want to hear you on the record defend that behavior that has happened and there's a witness to it. Defend that.

because the minute that I want to see that, and I would love to come on your show and look him in the eye as he's doing that. I'll pay you for it because, you know, from my position... I can be bought. You and me both. But, I mean, you know, I just bought another powerful ticket. I'll do it for less. Yeah. Fair. All, let's pause here. Because I want to get to other issues, including, by the way... If you would have stayed in the race, we're one week away from the primary. You mentioned Todd Blanche, Janine Piro. There's a lot of national stuff, which I know you have opinions on. Chris Maddle in the house, 35 past two. We'll quickly move through some spots, traveling weather, and come back with Chris in moments. Hey, it's Jen Hatmaker. Here's what I've learned in midlife. Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what this new series on For the Love is all about. The sacred yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose. Because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your sacred yes with me. Follow and listen to For the Love wherever you get your podcasts.