Utah Loves Remote Work, New Rules for License Plate Readers, Mud Volleyball

Today on CityCast Salt Lake, Saltlakers are working from home. In fact, Utah is one of the top 10 states for it. Plus, Salt Lake City has proposed new rules for the flock license plate cameras all over our county, state, nation. I'm Allie Viata. I'm here with executive producer Emily Means. Hello. And audience development manager, Angie Treasure. Hi, guys. Howdy? Good morning, fam. I'm going to start with a story that I've been obsessed with for a few weeks now. Some new data from the Kempsey Gardner Institute about how many Utahans are working from home. We are doing it. We really love it. We're in the top 10 states nationally, according to data from 2024, for working from home about 16% of us in Salt Lake County. are doing it. But I want to ask you both because the three of us all work from home, what would you do if that changed? Would you quit? We'll be honest. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 66% of Americans say they would. Yeah. I do think it's a benefit. A lot of people have become really dependent on and that they enjoy and it works for their life, whether that's child care, whether that's just home needs. I have spent a lot of time working from an office and an arena. And even within that time period, going work from home during COVID and then coming back. So I've been through every stage of working from home. An arena is cracking me up because you used to work for the Utah Jazz. Of course, you were a jazz player. Yeah, I was getting my shots up in the gym. No, I had to do at least 41 nights from Delta Center. So a lot of nights and weekends and weird hours. But like it was strange when we went from. working from home. It was about a year, maybe 18 months with the jazz to returning to the office. We really kind of started back with working at games and then returning to the office. And it's jarring. It's a whole different rhythm. I personally, like, I see some benefits in working from the office. And if it's a job I love and that's what it requires, I'm open to it. But I understand why people don't feel the same way. What about you, Emily? Do you miss the office? Would you willingly go back? I love working from home so much. I feel so lucky that we can record this podcast from the comforts of our own. My second bedroom, Allie, your closet, you know, like... Or wherever I happen to be. Or wherever you happen to be. I mean, nothing better for me than to roll out of bed at, you know, 8.30 a.m., get prepped for the day for our 9.30 a.m. meeting. So I just... really appreciate the ability to be able to do to do this um but yeah there are some things i miss i feel like there's less you know a little less chit chat i do like those human interactions and a lot of our interactions happen over a camera or over slack and you know so i missed that i missed those you know how to how was your weekend what'd you do chat over the proverbial water cooler you know

How awesome was Ada one day? Did you see The Odyssey? Yeah. I mean, I like really miss the water cooler talk. And I also feel like sometimes I'm less plugged into the community because of it truthfully. Like. When I worked in an office, I never wanted for a good plumber recommendation. I never wanted for a good like story to reshare. I miss hearing about people's first dates. I miss hearing about their disaster kitchen renovation. I miss hearing about their like marriages, funny kids stories. Like I just think that's like kind of the point of life. And it's funny, one of the things that I think I've really discovered, and if we're all being honest, that we all discovered when many of us transitioned to working from home during the pandemic, is how little time you actually need to do your job. Like, I can't believe, I'm going to be so real right now. I cannot believe I sat at a desk for eight hours and acted busy for eight full hours every day. It's just the reality is just that actually like you can probably get it done in less time when you're truly focused. And like the work from home has really elucidated that for me in a way that's like, yeah, we spent a good portion of our day just like kind of keying being in the office. Like having, you know, dragging out the lunch break, whatever, whatever. And so I don't know if like all of this moves us towards like being a, you know, four 10 hour days a week, at least in the sort of like white collar, you know, you work in finance, you work in media, whatever kind of ecosystem. Fine with me. But I don't miss meal prepping. That's true. I'll just say, I mean, I used to commute up to Park City. I didn't have a car. I rode the bus to Park City. That took... so much of my day. Yeah. Just going up and down Parley's Canyon. And by the time I got home, I was like, Jesus, I'm so tired. I haven't seen my, my boyfriend at the time for, you know, 15 hours or whatever. So I really do feel lucky that we're able to work from home. Yeah. Why do we think Utahans like it so much? Or at least do it so often. This is the thing about this that I find so interesting. Because I mentioned 16% of Salt Lake County workers are working from home. We're not actually the highest. In Utah County, they're ahead of us. 17% working from home. When we look at this data, it tells us about who's most likely to be working from home. It's us. It's women. in white collar jobs, mostly white people or Asian, overrepresentation of Latinas working from home on this team. That's true. I thought it was the thing that's like kind of buried in here that I think is really important and most interesting is that before the pandemic, we were the third state for working from home. So I think part of the reason that we've held on.

is that actually we kind of always were doing it. We always had a higher rate, right? We dropped to ninth in 2024 because other states started adopting remote work. But before that, Utah was the third state. So I do think if you pull that together with women, mostly what, you know what I mean? Like with the other cross tabs, it points me to like, women working from home, right? It's like the side hustle sort of like how much of that is part time work, whatever. Like I just think there's something there. There's a very Utah story there. Over index on MLMs. Yeah. Well, and the lack of available child care, right? Like it's just something that. women need access to because we don't have enough child care in our communities. So, you know, if women are able to stay home and work, that checks that box for a lot of families. I do think it's interesting looking at the map, seeing the four states who are over 16%. It's Colorado, Arizona, Washington, and Oregon. And those also feel like high, again, this is going on vibes, not necessarily data, but high transplant. States, especially post-COVID. So I wonder if a lot of people who already had remote work relocated. Colorado just sticks out to me. We'd have to ask our friends at CityCast, Denver. But I thought that was interesting. Yeah. Well, also the tech aspect here. I mean, Allie, you noted that. A lot of people in media are working from home. Information industry is kind of how they've categorized this. And that includes tech employees. For some reason, I had in my brain that tech was making people come back to work. Like, you know, thinking about the Google campuses and all that and how they, you know, you've got, you've got like a full on community in your workplace that you never have to leave. But, I mean, hearing also that Utah County is leading out on this in our state, that's where Silicon Slopes is. So it does seem like, you know, our tech industry in the state is cool with work from home. Well, kind of. I mean, never forget when Qualtricks said come back to the office. That was a couple years ago. And we all had one friend who was furious, right? Like who that was like, it was like, it was like a paradigm shift into like, you know, a grown, a tech grown of like, oh, no, here we go. It was. pretty recently that the state officially rescinded its work from home kind of policy. They said everyone needs to start. State employees need to return to office. The state changing its tune has been interesting to me because it's been in lockstep with, I think, the federal government changing its tune on this as well. The Trump administration has been full steam on repealing work from home policies. And actually last year, we used to have this thing in Utah where if the air quality was bad, right? If it was a bad air day, state employees were encouraged to telework. And that was repealed last year. Oh, interesting. Too bad because that's such a smart policy. Really smart. Couldn't agree more. Get people off the roads. We don't need people in I-15 traffic when it's a freaking chunky air day. When you can drink the air. Yeah. And what's interesting about it, too, is like,

There is all the things happening with like these office to apartment building conversions happening. We've got a fair number of them in Salt Lake City. A big one on South Temple that just wrapped up is the seraph. Remember that project? Like kind of above the Alta Club. Yeah. Yeah. But if you look at like, okay, so there's this, for example, Prince Perilsen, which is a big recruiting firm here in Utah, they did this write up that was basically like, y'all need to really reconsider. these return to office mandates because they are starting to affect candidate behavior. We're finding that, like, offer acceptance rates are declining for fully in office roles, that candidates don't want to leave flexibility behind. And, of course, the people who have the most bargaining power in a candidate negotiation tend to be upper management, tend to be people with more experience. Your most expensive also often, like, you know, your valuable employees, proven leaders, et cetera. They're most likely to take off. Yeah. I get that. Lucky us, I guess. I do miss getting my jokes laughed at in person. As you guys know, I'm like the youngest child, so I walk in with jazz hands. Like, everybody laughs. Look at me. I shoot you an LOL over Slack. Does that count for nothing? No, that's great. Look, if you're an employer and you're thinking about making everyone go back to the office, think twice. That's all I'll say. When Grindr did it, half their workforce quit. So think twice. Wow.

Executive producer Emily Means, audience development manager, Angie Treasure. Big, big topic in our city right now. The flock cameras. These are license plate readers. There are a couple brands that actually do this. There's flock, there's axiom, et cetera. Flock has become the, what Kleenex is to tissues, flock has become to license plate reading cameras. But if you remember, it was last December, Salt Lake City kind of put a pause on implementing a flock camera, you know, system. I think they were, I think at the time, right, they were going to ask the federal government for some money for the expansion, right? That was that there was a grant on the table. Yep. Yeah. And now what we've got is. proposal from council member Aleppo for some rules about how these cameras can be implemented in Salt Lake City before they are in fact fully full steam ahead implemented. What did you think of these rules? What did you make of them? These rules include requiring law enforcement to prove that there's a criminal case tied to their use of these cameras because that's that's part of this right is like the concern about information sharing uh with other agencies of course nationally this has been a big concern especially with ice uh and so you know council member poey wanted to like raise the burden of proof in a way. I guess that's a legal term. Maybe I shouldn't use it. But just make them jump through a couple more hoops to prove that they actually needed this information. I saw also from KUER's reporting that the ordinance includes auditing Salt Lake City Police Department and any agencies that request this data. I mean, I think it's a good start. And quoted in this KUER story is the executive director or rather the legal director. from the ACLU of Utah, Jason Growth, who I'm a huge fan of just generally. Jason has done a lot of great work around Operation Rio Grande and homelessness too. And he said that. This is a really good start. So I'm kind of on the of the mind that if it's good enough for Jason Growth at the ACLU, it's good enough for me. Well, let's not misquote him. He did not say this is a good start. He said it's headed in the right direction. Excuse me. And I do think those have a slightly different patina. Headed in the right direction suggests that there is still quite a bit more work to be done. This is a good start implies that you have full faith that the work will be done. Okay. Okay. Here she is with her liberal arts degree. I just like, I saw that and was like, because you know what immediately came to mind for me was when we were interviewing Salt Lake City's police chief, Brian Red, on this show. And he said to us, and this is a quote, I mean, I don't agree with the ACLU on.

everything. And I, so we were like running out of time at that moment, but I really deeply wanted to be like, wait a minute, like what? On what? I would love to know. We should have turned your face into a meme for that moment because you did one of these. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? Please make a list of all the things you disagree with the American Civil Liberties Union on, Chief Red. Yeah. I would love details. Forgive me, Jason Groth, for misquoting you. But. So it sounds like more work to be done. More work to be done. And it's good. There's parameters. I mean, I don't know if you guys saw the Washington Post reporting that came out yesterday. They've had at least 50 law enforcement officers charged with misuse of this kind of data. A lot of ex-boyfriends who are cops tracking. ex-girlfriends. I know that there was some uproar over a woman in Texas who may have gotten an abortion and they were tracking her movement. So I do think that's a lot of anxiety for folks is how will this data be used? How is it used in not even the wrong hands? It's the right people who have access, but using it for means we wouldn't find agreeable. Right, which is a conversation that we've been having in this city, in this country, in this world for a long time now, which is do we trust our police forces? Do we want them to have more access to our private information? And do we feel that surveillance technology is offering more benefit than actual? insecurity or unsafe, right? That's like, I feel like all roads lead to that and have probably since the Patriot Act and also 100 years before that when we like establish state police forces. Like it's just been, it's just a, it's daily life in urban infrastructure is like figuring this out. I think the state of New Hampshire has the most conservative policy on these license plate reader cameras, which is that. It's a three-minute data deletion rule. So if the license plate reader, when it takes the photo, does not immediately detect like an active warrant, a active investigation, that it's a hot plate, something like that, within three minutes, the data must then be deleted. Interesting. Which means it can't sit around in the server. It can't be accessible. It can't be poked around with later. You have three minutes to identify if this is an active threat. And that is at this moment, as I understand it, the most, like, restrictive law on the books. I mean, I think what's interesting to me about, you know, this new policy from Salt Lake City as well is, you know. Councilmember Pui is saying the toothpaste is out of the tube. There are already more than 300 of these cameras in Salt Lake County. So really, it's about regulating them and not determining whether they should be here or not. They're here. They're already here. Have you guys tracked yours on the map, by the way? Yes, I thought that was so interesting, too. There's this map of all these different ALPRs. ALPR automated license plate reader, right?

Automatic license plate reader, that's what these flock cameras are. So that's more generically what they're called. But this is crowdsource data. And to me, that, I mean, that really tells me how the community feels about these tools, right? Like, they're skeptical. They're nervous. They are. And both ends of the political spectrum, as we've talked about when we're preparing for this episode. There's not a lot that unifies us sometimes it feels like. And being nervous or at least. unclear about how this data is being used is pretty unifying for the left and the right. Right. Right. Well, and we've talked about this a lot. Data centers, flop cameras, Mike Lee. Those are our three bipartisan issues in Utah. You know, we've talked about this a lot in Salt Lake City with the rollout of the public safety plan. Surveillance has been a really big part of that. And it's been feeling a little bit big brothery in Salt Lake. Not only do we have these flock cameras. We've got drones that the city has been investing in. I don't know if you guys, I'm sure you've seen them actually. Those big cameras that are on, I mean, they look like robots. And they kind of put them throughout parks and vacant lots. Like that's part. of this vision for surveillance as well. LVT is one of the local companies that was the patch partner for the Utah Jazz, not to always, you know, Utah Jazz mentioned Angie takes a shot, but like that was that was a company that put them in every parking lot, you know, around the arena and in the offices. So it's a. kind of a convergence of the tech local companies and surveillance. I mean, security is how they brand it and also questions about surveillance. And I'll say, I mean, you know, the way the police are saying that this is this is helping them out is really in their response time. The cameras will. basically be able to respond to an incident before police can. And sometimes they look at the incident and see that they don't even need to dispatch anyone. So, you know, for folks who are concerned about police response times, I think that they may see these tools as a benefit. But again, people generally are concerned about privacy and the mass surveillance of our city. Yeah. And the ACLU, like, Nationals, official stance is opposed to these thought cameras. They say that less than 1% of cars scanned by them belong to any individuals suspected of any wrongdoing at all. So their approach is this is a solution in search of a problem, which... You know, a Utah fave. But I think that that's like, and that's like sort of the opposition, right? You remember in March when we were talking about the absolutely devastating triple homicide that happened near Tory, Utah.

where the 22-year-old man killed three women in one day. And I remember when we were following that reporting, seeing that it was because of a flock camera that they detected his vehicle and were able to apprehend him. And there was this like total sinking in my heart because I was like, I am a person who's deeply opposed to the surveillance state. And I see that this is the instance. This. to me feels like the outlier instance where this worked. And I'm like, no. But also it could have saved lives. Oh, no. But also, yes, it could have saved lives. Like this was someone who was on a killing spree. Again, unbelievably rare. Not the like normal kind of crime we see anywhere in this state or country. That is like not, that's not normal crime. But like, there we are. Right. But, you know, I think. People have big feelings about this. And hey, if you do, guess what? There's going to be a public hearing for the Salt Lake City Ordinance on September 15th. I imagine that's going to be a long night for the city council. We should say you can zoom into the city council meeting still. You can show up in person at the city county building. September 15th will be a Tuesday. That's when they meet. If you have strong feelings about this, that would be the time to go and share them.

Executive producer Emily Means, audience development manager Angie Treasurer. On Tuesdays, we do shoutouts. We don't wear any particular color, but we do shoutouts. Emily, you first. What's your shoutout? Sure. Well, on Friday, I'm sure you all saw there was a fire that broke out at an apartment complex in Midvale, displaced hundreds of residents. I saw that there were no injuries, so that... is great news, but of course, a scary, scary situation all around. And a lot of people lost everything. So if you are wondering how you can support this community, there are a couple of ways. I saw the Red Cross of Utah is providing aid here so you can make a financial donation to Red Cross. And they really do recommend a financial donation over, you know, something like... shoes, clothes, whatever. It's just too much for them to organize in a timely manner. And so they recommend a financial donation. But also Midvale Mayor Dustin Gettle set up like a recovery email for this fire. It's... recovery at midvale ut.gov. And this is for anyone who can provide assistance like hotel rooms or, you know, food or clothes. And then the local government will connect residents directly. So those are two ways to get involved and support our Salt Lake community when they need us. Angie, what about you? So we had 801 day this last Saturday. I know it was a couple days, but I'm still buzzing. I don't know about you guys. It was my first 801 day as a team member. And so getting to meet all of our neighbors and the people who were just hanging out with us on the milk block listening to KRCL or drinking a beer in the neighbor's beer garden. We loved hanging out with you. But I wanted to shout out to neighbors who came by. They participated in our 801 day passport promotion. And they spent all day, you guys, going up and down the night. line visiting these businesses. So it was Kate and Andrea, and they got 25 stamps. Wow. Out of 30, right? Like 30 businesses. I think we had 35, 36 participating. Wow. And you didn't necessarily have to buy something to get a stamp, right? You just have to go in and visit. But these gals went and they got their coffee at Coffee Garden because they had an 801 deal for an olive oil cake and a lung tea. And they went and got lunch at Freshies. They said they were so full by the end. They came to visit. And then they just wanted to see how it worked. And they're like, okay, we're going over to Veneto because they did an $8 glass of wine and $1 appetizer. And they were going to do that. And they came back. And they didn't win anything in our opportunity drop. which I was bummed. We did have a person who did 20 stamps who won. So that was lovely. But Kate and Andrea, the fact that you guys made a whole day of it, it was a hot day as we know. And instead of just staying home and be moaning the weather, you guys went and had such an epic day. And I love that for you guys. You can follow Kate on Instagram. She's she sip, snack, stroll, SLC.

Oh, nice. Of course. She kept tagging us. I was delighted all day long. She had all her deals, all her merch and stickers and everything she picked up. That is so wonderful. Honestly, should we make them the 801 Day 2027 co-chairs? Right? I'm going to talk to them about what they liked about the passport because I want to do it again. Miss Ada one day. Oh my gosh, you guys. Can we make a sash next year? Yeah, we should. That would be great. Wow, that's incredible. What a great way to spend the day just supporting local businesses, our favorite local businesses. Truly. And shout out to you, Angie, because you worked really hard with Michael from the milkwalk to make that nine line passport happen. And what we heard from businesses along Ninth South is they did get a boost. And like it was a huge, huge day for a lot of businesses on the nine lines. So it worked out beautifully. And it was something we. tried. And, you know, you guys had decided to do this passport before I came on. So I was a little bit like, I showed up to the group project and got an A. Nah, you executed. But we were delighted to know how much people enjoyed it. We ran out of passports, which we printed a couple hundred and we're like, I don't know if anyone's going to pick these up. And we ran out. And we had people saying, please do this again. We're at last a week, last all summer. So we want to, we want to think of ways we can bring it back because we loved how much you guys loved it. Yes. It was great. 801 day. 801 day. Another 801 day. 2026. We did it. Wow. Allie, what's your shout out? I want to shout out the town of Paradise, Utah, population 971. This is near Logan in Cash County. And I'm shouting them out because I only recently learned as a near 10-year Salt Lake resident about trout and Bari Weiss days. Have either of you been to trout and Bari Weiss days? They are combined? Yep. It's not trout days and Bari Weiss days? Nope. Trout and berries. was created in 1990 by Roger Roundy, the then owner of the Cracker Barrel. And one of the great traditions that happens at trout and Bari Weiss days that I also recently learned about is the trout scramble, which if you want to get this on your calendar now, is going to be Saturday, August 29th at noon. And what happens is they stock a little basically kiddie swimming pool full of trout and water. And kids run around and catch trout and then the family gets to take home the trout and cook it.

Extremely cash valley of them. Extremely cash value of them. But actually, like, this all kicks off this year on August 21st. There's a rodeo that's $10 a person, which I think is really reasonable. Nice. They're doing a pickleball tournament this year, very of the times, horseshoe tournament, a 5K, a breakfast. There is a mud volleyball? Oh. Sure. And then it, like, the grand finale is on Saturday, August 29, 6 p.m. There's a trout dinner with Bari Weiss tarts. So there's a Bari Weiss eating contest. I mean, this is like, this is Americana, folks. This is like, if you didn't get your fill of America 250, now is your chance. Trout and Bari Weiss days in paradise. I love that. There's a Bari Weiss for every trout. I'm going to start saying that instead of lid for every pot. Wow. And we will completely understand what you're trying to say. One of the things I love about Utah is how many like X days we have. Like Brigham City Peach Days, although RIP the Peaches this year, right? Swiss days. Swiss days. Tomatoes. Strawberry days. I love it. There's a day for everyone. Yeah. Mud Volleyball. If you want to participate, three bucks a person. I'm just going to guess what that is. I don't want to know what it is. I'm just going to make it up in my head. I think you know exactly what it is. You can go ahead and assume the website is trout and Bari Weiss days.com. So good. That URL's been open for a while. Yeah, I'm surprised no one else has taken that domain. Got it. Got it in 1990, baby. All right. Something about this show is that it is member powered. We've got a membership program. And if you join, we shower you in perks like on Tuesdays. We pass the mic to our members so that they can shout out. the people, places, and things that they love. We've got some new members to welcome before we do that. And also, as I understand it, we're running kind of a deal this week if you become a member. We've got merch. Yeah, we're doing a merch closet. clean out. We have beautiful mugs. I actually have one right here for those are the video. Oh, CityCast Salt Lake Neighbors. You could either, if you sign up this week, you can either get a mug, a pennant that has the whale on it, says Salt Lake City, or a tote that also mentions the neighbors program. It's a great tote. It's a great toe. This is swag that we've had in previous member campaigns and we have a little bit extra, but all the time we hear from folks who are like, oh, I already became a member, can I please get this swag? Sorry, I don't think so. But if you become a new member, you can get this swag. Yeah, it was like someone who came up to our table who was already a neighbor at 801 day. And he's like, oh, but my wife wants a mug. And it's like, well, sign her up for an account. So you can both be neighbors. And then you get that, she can get that mug. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Like a finder's fee.

I'm partial to the pennant because we designed those and created them in partnership with like the official Oxford pennant. So it is an official Oxford pennant if that means anything to you. Okay. Shout out to our newest members. Sierra L. Marcy R. Andrew M. Colin B. Lori M. Brandon M. Cody H. Lilly B. Also to Catherine C. Zachary S. Eric W. and Amanda B. We ask for $10 a month or $100 a year to join our membership program. And there are other perks beyond the merch we're offering, beyond the shoutouts. You get ad-free listening, which makes your morning catch up on everything happening in the city even faster. Would you both like to read some shoutouts from our members? Love to. Let's start with David C. who says, can we get some love for Gaetano's sub shop? They've been making the best sandwiches in the Valley since 1973 and are currently struggling to get the attention they deserve. Their steak sandwiches are amazing. And the classic Italian sub is my go-to. And, Ali, we know that you're looking for sandwiches. So always. You've got to try Gaetano's. Gaetano's is also for sale. So now is the time to show them some love. They close their memory location. Now the one on State Street has been up for sale for a while. So pop in, tell them not to sell or buy it. And keep it going. Keep selling that Italian sum because I do really like that. Two options. First prioritize becoming a neighbor at $10 a month. And then after that, a mortgage for Gaetano's on State Street. Easy. You can do it all. Yeah. And then a shout out from Brooke P. Wasatch Rangers is a new K through 12 nature program from community co-op nature school meeting at local trails and parks every Friday afternoon this fall. Built for kids at schools and with half day Fridays. Spots are open. Love that. Great. Great program. I want to go to nature school. That's like the opposite of work from home. That's part of the hiking club in high school. But is the Wi-Fi connection strong enough to do a remote podcast while you're at Nature Club? That's what I need to know. You could probably bum Wi-Fi from a nearby flock camera. Starlink. Get a Utah Tech Company on Trail Wi-Fi. Exactly. All right. Support this show. Get great perks. We can't make this show every day in our newsletter without you. Thank you to all of our CityCast Salt Lake neighbors. That's what we call our members. And if you'd like to join, we're waiting for you. Visit membership.comcast.fm. Executive producer Emily Means, audience development manager, Angie Treasure. Have a great Tuesday. See you. Have a great day. That is all for us today here on CityCast, Salt Lake. We will be back tomorrow morning with more from around town. Take care.