“The corruption knows no bounds”

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And that is where we begin today with Democratic Congresswoman Zo Lofgren of California. She is a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Also joining us, political analysts, former Senator Claire McCaskill is with me for the hour. It is good to see you both. Congresswoman, how is this legal? Well, I don't think it is. I think they're counting on the fact that the Trump Justice Department does not pursue illegal behavior if it financially benefits President Trump. However, I think the Wall Street guy who spoke anonymously does realize that the statute of limitations for this crime extends beyond Trump's terms. So I think people who participate in this insider... trading scheme do so at their peril. Right, there could be legal exposure for those people who are outside of the government participant. Listen, Congressman, you as a part of the one-six committee focused on how Trump profited off the big lie. You have followed his other corruption scandals for the past several years. I am sorry that you have had to spend so much of your one precious life doing exactly that. But, I mean, this seems even bolder, even more brazen. And it follows the pattern of them doing it out in the open and believing that that gives them some sort of. coverage, but I wonder what concerns you most about this latest enterprise? Well, it's just a part of the whole scheme. I mean, this guy is corrupt to his core. He's earned billions of dollars, really at the expense of the American people. And I think his MO is if you do it publicly, some people will think, well, It's probably not illegal because people who are committing crimes usually try and hide it. No, he just does it out in the open. And so far, he has basically gotten away with it. The Supreme Court immunized him from prosecution for official acts. The question is whether insider trading is an official act of the presidency, and that's likely to get tested as well. since the statute, as I mentioned, will not run. It also, it occurs to me, Senator McCaskill, that he makes a lot of policy decisions or policy pronouncements via social media. This would seem to incentivize some of his worst instincts. Yeah, no, it's very clear what he's doing here. He is using his own greed to make more money to feed the greed of people on Wall Street. And he's counting on the fact not only that he's doing it in public that somehow that's going to give him some kind of bubble wrap of it must be okay. But he's also counting on the fact that most Americans don't understand what you mentioned in the introduction. And that is seconds.

can make millions if you have information before the rest of the market has it. So what these people are paying over a million dollars a year for is just to beat the rest of the market by a few minutes. And that is the essence of undermining market integrity. That is the essence of praying on inside. I mean, think what Martha Stewart went to jail for. I mean, you know, that was like a playground stuff compared to this. And, you know, I got to mention this too. I don't think people understand what this does to our global national security. And I know that the Congresswoman will back me up on this. If there's one thing we've had an advantage in terms of the dollar being the currency, it was the stability and dependability of our markets, unlike in China. Businesses wanted to come to the United States because our markets were stable. They were secure. The rules were enforced. Now, in big flashing lights, we're saying to the world, you know, we're no different than these other countries where they're rigging things behind the curtain to make money for really rich people. And that's exactly what they're doing here. Right. I think that's an interesting frame that the senator puts forward to Congresswoman, which is we were talking about this as it relates to. corruption, which is a common frame for us to return to, but they're also here is a question of national security. Well, I think Senator is correct. I mean, we have enjoyed, for generations, being top dog, financially, militarily, and culturally, and all of that is now being eroded to our detriment. And it's worth pointing out, you know, people don't understand insider trading. But it's a crime because somebody loses. You know, if some hot shot gets insider trading and they short the stock, somebody else is losing money. And so the president has taken advantage of inside information to... pile up billions of dollars of money for himself. Now he's trying to cut in greed heads on Wall Street so that they can participate in cheating other people in the market. It's really bad for other Americans, but it's also bad, as Claire has pointed out, who in the world is going to trust us? We were successful because the rules were transparent. They were certain. They were organized under the rule of law. And we can't hold that out to financial markets anymore.

Claire, I want to read you just a little bit from Senator Schiff and Warren's letter to the SEC. They write, President Trump has used Truth Social on multiple occasions to endorse specific stocks by their ticker symbol. Last month, President Trump posted about Citigroup on Truth Social to praise the company's first quarter of 2026 performance. Congratulate the CEO and call out the company's ticker number. That same day, Citigroup stock outperformed the broad market and other major bank stocks. Truth Social. even advertise this new service by saying it was early access to, quote, the platform's most market moving truths. So to the point that both you and the Congresswoman have made, they know what they're doing in this letter to the SEC that Senators Schiff and Warren have sent. Do you think they can have faith in the current chair of the SEC to follow up on this letter to, yeah, go ahead. The laugh says it all, Claire, but you go ahead. Yeah. Hell no. You know, they have no faith that the SEC is going to do the right thing here. They have no faith in the DOJ. And I'll tell you, you know, I am so tired of talking about this. on this wonderful network I'm associated with. But why aren't there any Republican senators' names on that letter? I mean, come on. You know, Thom Tillis, come on. You know, John Cornyn, you guys aren't going to be there. You don't have to be afraid of this guy. Where's Susan Collins' name on this letter? Where is, you know, where's Dan Sullivan? who's in the race of his life in alaska right now where are the republicans on the finance committee that know this is outrageous conduct to enrich a public official at the public's expense. And they know that. Why are they not speaking up? What do they think this guy who's polling in the low 30s can actually do to them? The country no longer supports this guy. Why are they still afraid of him? I do not get the cowardice. I really do not understand it. I'll never understand it. Well, because they're busy getting pinky promises from Todd Blanche about whether or not that so-called anti-weaponization fund is dead. Congressman, I wonder if you share Claire's skepticism around DOJ, around the SEC, and if you do, in fact, share that if Democrats were to take back the House in November, how you then tackle this question? Well, I do share Claire's view. I mean, these institutions have been corrupted by the president so that they are no longer operating along the facts in the law. He knows that. That's why he did it so he can get away with crimes. You know, I think hopefully the Senate and House will change the majority. But, of course,

Trump will still be in the White House. And so our role will be oversight, investigations, using our legislative skills to block things that are outrageous. But he'll still be there. He's got two years left on his term, two years and plus. And that's just the reality. So we'll have some speed bumps here. And we've also worked very successfully with state attorney generals on matters that have dual coverage when it comes to criminality or even civil actions. So we'll be quite busy, I'm pretty sure. I have no doubt about that. Let me add this to the list of things that will keep you busy. Claire, there was reporting from this weekend. This is from the Hill. Lawyers for Capital One on Friday asked a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit brought by President Trump's trust over its closing of Trump organization affiliated accounts years ago, saying it did so only after money. laundering concerns were flagged by experts. While attorneys for the Trump organization led by Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump have alleged Capital One closed more than 300 Trump-linked accounts in 2021 over politics, lawyers for the defendants wrote in a Friday court filing that the financial institution closed the accounts, quote, for anti-money laundering reasons. So you take these questions of insider trading. You've now put them side by side with money laundering, Claire? Yeah, you know, here's what another thing that is a constant besides Republican cowardice. It is the facts have generally been against President Trump in court. And as Zoh knows very well, you don't go to court without facts. You don't win in court without facts. You cannot prevail. if you have no evidence. And clearly, Capital One believes they have factual evidence that will support that they had a justification for closing these accounts based in the movement of money through these accounts that had the characterization of money laundering. And they would get in trouble for not closing those accounts if there is the kind of movement of funds through these accounts that would indicate money laundering. So they were really, you know, caught. Either they did what they're supposed to do under banking regulations, or they did what they needed to do to keep Trump happy. And Capital One did the right thing. And obviously, I think they're prepared to prove that in court. Congresswoman, your response to that reporting? Yeah, there's another possibility here. I mean, Claire is absolutely right. You go to court if you don't have the evidence, you're not going to win. Presumably, the Trump administration knew what's been reported is that Russians were giving them cash. I mean... Wow. So they must have assumed that they could intimidate Capital One, that they would settle in some way because they would be bullied by Trump. A lot of people have fallen for that and been intimidated because otherwise, why would you bring a lawsuit knowing that you had these damaging facts? I mean, they were the ones that took the cash from the Russians.

Wild. I want to ask you, Congressman, just before I lose you, about another financial story that we recently covered here on deadline of the Wall Street Journal. They had a massive report on Trump's fundraising, how he keeps tabs on which companies donate to him. You and Claire have both raised money. You know that's not how it works. And yet this has become status quo inside this administration. Well, it is, and I think most people, you know, fundraising is not something that anybody... whose rational likes to do, you have to do that. We look to small donors as much as possible. But I don't even look at who don't know. I don't want to be influenced. And the fact that he would keep a list is kind of like reminds me of Duke Cunningham who had a donor's list and ended up in prison. So it's not the way it's supposed to be. And it's another argument why we need to get big money out of politics. The quote and what they put in the bottom of the screen from the article was, quote, the boss wants this money, which is really something and makes you think about the fact that he has no interest in securing any money through an appropriate appropriations process. He's only interested in it through nefarious means. Congresswoman Zolofgren, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. Claire, I'm going to ask you to stick with us because when we return, Ohio's Republican Senator Bernie Moreno finally breaks his silence, calling his former son-in-law. A Republican congressman who's accused of assaulting the senator's daughter unfit for office. But that, Congressman, Max Miller, is not going away quietly. That's next. Also ahead. The high price of just about everything has driven Donald Trump's poll numbers to embarrassing new lows, and his opponents want to keep it that way. Tying the Trump administration's inability or unwillingness to rein in prices to Republicans running in the midterms. We're going to look at their latest efforts. And Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. melts down on live TV. How he reacted to being called out on the medical misinformation he continues to spread. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. We stay with us.

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Well, it said in the article I read that his daughter didn't want him to publicly do this, which is an interesting fact to consider. And maybe she was thinking in the long run, him losing his job would be a detriment to her daughter. But frankly, I think she's probably supported by her father, I think. that he has great wealth and I think he probably supports her and her child. So I don't get it. I don't get any of this. And I think the part I don't get the most is all these Republicans saying, well, it's just an allegation. Well, what do they think that the stuff against Graham Platner was? I don't recall him being convicted in any court. I don't recall him being found guilty of anything, but it was just an accusation. But when it was a Democrat, it was an accusation, you know, the sky was following. But when it's a Republican with an accusation, oh, well, he's fine. When Jim Jordan said, he's a fine man, he should be reelected. I hope he wins. I mean, I think what, Dan, what Claire is pointing out is there is undeniably a political cross pressure here as Republicans try to hold on to their very slim majority. If you have Senator Moreno sharing these comments and you have someone like Max Miller, who I believe won with about 51 percent, only 51 percent of the vote in his last election two years ago, does that then begin to scramble that race? And if you were Speaker Johnson, how nervous does that begin to make you? Well, I think quite nervous. But, you know, Claire, to answer your question on how they took this line to get there and the asymmetrical approach between Democrats and Republicans, there's a common thread in our politics right now. And your previous discussion on the corruption is part of it. There is a wealthy, powerful, corrupt force in our government led by Donald Trump and mega Republicans who are protecting those with money. And Max Miller is a rich kid. Alicia, who has had protection all of his life, against your interests, frankly. And there's this common thread between both his behavior, which is abhorrent and not, you know, in keeping with what any standard should be for elected office and public service, but also with the dereliction of duty back home. I mean, Ohio is the place with the most. folks who've unenrolled from the Affordable Care Act Exchange, 161,000 Ohioans have fallen off that exchange because of the skyrocketing costs because of the big beautiful bill and the cuts that were made because Trump wanted to fund, again, a tax cut for billionaires. And so this corrupt government that protects itself. that uses that bullying and that financial leverage to achieve its own means against the interests of constituents, is at play here and has obviously no fit to be in office. And if this behavior is exposed the way it should be, then he should lose his race.

I want to address your analysis in two parts first by talking about that asymmetric playing field that you reference, because I want to take a listen to the president talking about what is happening with Miller and compare it to the way he reacted to what happened with Graham Platner. He's a thug, and they're trying to make excuses for him. I mean, he's worse than any human being that's ever under office, probably. It's a very sad thing. I know Max, he's a good person. I mean, I always thought he's a very good person. And I'm going to let the families figure that out. You know, those families, I know they're working on it. It's a very sad thing, especially when you know somebody so well to be going through that. But it's accusations, and I'm going to let them figure that out. So a lot of empathy he was able to muster there, Claire. Yeah, exactly what I was talking about. And the American people see this. The voters that are the ones who voted for Barack Obama and Donald Trump see this. The voters who decide majorities who are not allegiant to any one party or the other. Those voters are really in play. And they're going to not only be in play in November, they're really going to be in play in 2008. And when they do this, when they ignore a serious allegation of domestic violence and assault, and they just ignore it and say it's an accusation, and they do it just the opposite when it's accused of a Democrat, those independent voters, those voters see that. And it does not encourage them to vote. for the R in any congressional race. I think the Miller race is the least of their problems at this point. I think they've got a lot of problems all over the country in districts that are frankly closer than this one should be. All right, Dan, I told you I wanted to go back to another point that you made, which is the point you were making about Ohio voters themselves. What's at stake for them? Our colleague Alex Tabitt was able to talk to some of those voters, take a listen to what they had to say. We got to get these predators out of Washington. We can't let them in. They do wrong. They shouldn't be in there. He owed it to his wife, his daughter, and his grandchild weeks, months ago to speak on that. And I agree with what he said, but I don't know that he does. What took him so long? Why is this movement that you're a part of? And that Max Miller is also a part of why is that movement more important than your family, your daughter, your grandchild?

I mean, clearly the second voter there, Dan, is talking about Moreno, not Miller, but it seems as though these two narratives have sort of woven together in a way that is now inextricable. Yeah, it's really well said. I mean, I think that's sort of shocked all of us when that first statement came out a few days prior from Moreno on this. I mean, look, voters and what you see online, it's so easy to pigeonhole people in the silos and their camps. And we've run these things through a partisan lens or a mega lens, you know, our progressive lens, Democrat-Republican lens. But at the end of the day, there's lots of people, a lot of them, in battleground states and states around the country. who can just sort of see what is true and what is offensive because they have eyes. And they can see plain as day that this behavior is wrong. They can see plain as day that it's a different standard. They can see plain as day the president himself has been corrupted by this kind of behavior and is guilty of it himself, literally guilty of it in civil court. And they can see the effect of their lives, maybe most importantly, because every poll, poll after poll, shows that voters are so angry with this president or with Republicans, you know, high 30% approval, even in a place like Ohio that was pretty red. And the biggest driver of that is not just the economy, but it's the lack of attention to the concerns that they have. And if you can't even be concerned about your own family, how in the world will you be concerned about theirs? Dan, you once again jumped ahead of me, and I am grateful that you did. So I'm going to ask you both to stay. And when we return, we're going to talk about this, how Donald Trump's critics are making sure his record low poll numbers stay that way.

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Have you or a loved one been injured by sticker shock this summer? Are you pouring water all over yourself just to keep cool because the administration's clean energy cuts have made your power bills unaffordable? Have tariffs driven umbrella prices so high that you're forcing your kids to hold a bed sheet over you at the beach? Little Timmy's arms are getting tired. Are you secretly living at the office because the war with Iran has made your commute costs more than your paycheck? Don't suffer in silence. Call the law offices of sticker, shock, and associates, or go to our website to learn why this administration's policies are making your summer more expensive. That very cheeky ad put out by Home of the Brave, just one new way of coping with the affordability crisis that has driven Donald Trump's polling ratings to embarrassing new lows. It reflects a deep dissatisfaction the voters are feeling. A string of recent polls show Donald Trump with a support of only one-third of the country. 34% approval in a CNN poll, 33% approval in an associated press poll. And just 32% of voters polled by Quinnipiac approve of the job Donald Trump is doing as president. We are back with Dan and with Claire. Claire, Peter Baker of the New York Times pointed out that Trump's unpopularity for a second term president at this point in their term is unprecedented. It was only Richard Nixon, who resigned, of course, due to Watergate, who was lower. Clearly, there are folks inside the administration that know that these numbers are a problem, that know that affordability is clearly not a word that Democrats made up. It is something that is being felt by the American people. But it's kind of telling clear that they don't seem to be changing course three months out for midterms. Yeah, you know, I've seen this before, not to this extent, but somebody gets in office and they surround themselves with people that will tell them what they want to hear. that will boost them up every day because that's what makes their jobs easier, that never tell the leader that they are wrong, that they are mistaken, that the facts are otherwise, they simply just do, the emperor has no clothes. And that's what's going on in this White House. And I actually think that Trump... He is probably worried about the polling, but he also has convinced himself, I think, that that can't be true. Because he has somebody that follows him around, Alicia. He has somebody who follows him around showing him positive replies on his social media. Print it out. They call her the human printer. And she follows him around all day and shows him, look what wonderful things they're saying about you, dear leader. So when you have that kind of altered reality, it's very hard to let it sink in that the only person who is more unpopular than you are right now was Richard Nixon, and that was a mere month before he resigned from office. Well, Dan, as though... Kerm Kaskill has a little camera set up inside the Oval Office because this is what the president posted this morning, quote, my all caps, real polling numbers are the best they have ever been. Why does that matter for Americans? It matters because if he is not tethered to reality to the economic pain that they are appealing. I mean, I think that ad from Home of the Brave got it really right. This is all anybody wants to talk about how the price of beef, the price of gas, everyone is.

it across the economic spectrum. But it is a problem for all of us if the president of the United States does not believe that that is the reality and is not feeling the political pressure to do something about it. Yeah, well said. And it's not confined to the economic space or polling. I mean, I think it's pretty evident to all of us as just observers that Venezuela and the extraction Maduro felt easy to him, never mind what's going to come next, you know, in Latin America. But the idea that that was so easy, I think, helped him get to this place. of invading Iraq, Iran, excuse me, and beginning this conflict, which has now caused tremendous national security upheaval, a dangerous situation in the Middle East, and just absolutely skyrocketing fuel prices and prices of goods and all kinds of things back at home. And all it takes is someone sticking in front of him a picture of one gas station somewhere. you know, with lower gas prices for him to believe that it's all fine because he is surrounded by folks in this bubble. In fact, he's on his own social media network because he can't be on the other platforms to actually hear what people are saying in the real world. So, no, he's totally cloistered. And that is resulting in terrible decisions on foreign policy, on economics, on politics. And it's both bad for him because he's not adjusting politically to what the reality is on the ground, but it's dangerous. from Americans because he can convince himself of anything. And he surrounds himself, as Claire said, with sycophants. I mean, in the first term, at least he had General Kelly. And he had folks that would tell him no and try to check his worst impulses. And now it's basically what I think of is like the My Pillow Guy caucus around him. And that's creating just tremendous, I think dangerous situation for all of us. Claire, I just want to do a quick thought exercise here, which is if Democrats take back the house. Say they even take back the Senate. There will be an expectation that they are going to somehow get a handle on this economy. I think part of the challenge is that a lot of the economic headwinds are coming from the president's own policies, his tariffs, his war of choice with Iran. So if you are congressional Democrats and you do, in fact, have the majority in one or both chambers. What is sort of your first order of business to try to get this economy back on track, understanding that so much of it is actually about reining in the executive authority of this president? Well, you just have to, first of all, be very disciplined about the message and the priorities you talk about. The American people will see if you're trying. They will also see when Trump is blocking you. For example, you know, getting something passed by reconciliation that the president then tries to veto or that his OMB tries to, you know, the guy over there tries to stop the spending in the ways that might.

relieve some of the pain the Americans are feeling right now. But you bring up a good point, and I think it's one that we probably ought to talk about a little more often, and that is everyone's expectations needs to understand the math is still going to be the math. We're not going to have 60 votes in this. And we are not going to have enough votes to override a veto. And he will block investigations. He will tell his people not to respond to subpoenas. And it takes more than two years to enforce a congressional subpoena. So there is going to be some frustration on the part of people that elect these Democrats in November because it isn't going to get better right away. So the Democrats are really going to have to focus, be disciplined, and show every day they're trying to do their very best for the things that the American people really care about. And do that expectation management that you referenced. Dan Kennan, thank you so much for joining us today. Claire, I'm going to ask you to stick with us a little longer because when we return, a medical meltdown of epic proportions, what happened when Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. was confronted with the facts about vaccines and the pandemic. Pandemic. It was not pretty.

Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist, but genes don't cause. Do you see your job as ending vaccine hesitancy, or do you see your job as telling the truth of the American people? I see my job as telling the truth, and the truth is that there is study after study after study. It's one of the most studied things out there in science. You're repeating it like a parrot. You're repeating it like a parrot. I've actually read the science. You don't want to come back here and debate the science. I'm not debating this. Of course you won't. No, because I'm not debating how to do is repeat things that people told you and say trust the experts. You're talking about studies that actually don't exist. I want to talk about. Cite me the study that you're talking about it. I am not here to defend. Cite me the study. This is not productive. How can you describe that other than an alarming and erratic display? That was Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. attempted to spread health misinformation over the weekend. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. attacks CNN's Dana Bash for questioning the data he presented, attempted to spread incorrect information about vaccines, and tried to smear Dr. Anthony Fauci. For a fact check, let's bring in Dr. Celine Gounder. He is a professor of medicine and infectious diseases, NYU's medical school. and an editor at large for KFF. Health News. Claire is still with me. Where to begin, Dr. Gounder, what was the most dangerous thing you heard there? Well, I think the most dangerous thing is this debate going back and forth about citing studies. This is where, frankly, I wish they had Dr. Sanjay Gupta doing that interview, somebody who could have fact-check Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in real time. This has been a tactic of his in numerous different interviews to say, you know, my study, your study, can you cite this study? And unfortunately, you know, somebody like Dana Bash, as well as she handled that interview, is not going to have those details at her fingertips. And so it leaves. the audience really confused. Okay, but talk to me, too, about the fact that he is going out there, questioning childhood vaccines for... COVID. She pushes him and he sort of begrudgingly admits that parents should vaccinate their children against measles when measles is at a 35 year high. I mean, just the spread of that information, the platforming of that information coming from someone like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. What does that do to the public health community? Well, let's actually go through some of the studies that should have been cited in that CNN interview. So for example, with respect to the eight vaccines that are given in a baby's first six months of life. He was saying, has that ever been studied for a link to autism? So in 2013, CDC researchers published in the Journal of Pediatrics, they compared 256 children with autism to 752 children without. They added up the total exposure from each shot the child got, and they looked at three different age cutoffs. They looked at three months, seven months.

two years and they found no increased risk of autism. Three years earlier, that same group published in pediatrics in 2010 on the mercury preservative thimerosol, and they looked at birth to one month and then birth to seven months, so including that six-month period Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was referring to, and they found no increased risk of autism at either age. And those were not being pulled, diagnosis being pulled from billing codes. Each autism case was in fact confirmed by a standardized in-person evaluation. I have two children, Claire. I know you have a lot of grandchildren. Parents are so anxious. We have so much we have to worry about. And we are trusting experts constantly for good information and for guidance. And I get that there is a subset of people who find his skepticism appealing, but I have to imagine that there are even more of us who are upset and frustrated and angry that in addition to all of the basic anxieties we have as parents and grandparents, we have to add to it the fact that we're now sending our children into environments where other parents are making different choices because they're being led by people who purport to know the science who would say. have never even read the studies themselves. Yeah, it is very frustrating that this man was given this job and that he was confirmed. It was well documented how he felt about vaccines. He's anti-science and he's anti-vaccine, and he's running the largest health organization in the world. This is a problem. And he is irresponsible. He is clearly wants to be the center of attention. He was willing to pay any price to do so, including to check his some of his instincts, for example, about climate and the environment. This is a guy who was a warrior. for environmental issues. And now he is serving a president who's shutting down every attempt to try to protect our environment. And he's okay with it as long as he's getting attention. It is so damaging. And you're right. Parents are really in a bind here because, and I would, here's what I tell my children. And here's what I tell everyone who asked me, ask your pediatrician. Find a pediatrician you trust and ask your pediatrician and take your pediatrician's advice. They have read the studies that the doctor just referred to. They understand the power of vaccines. They understand disease prevention in children. They understand how it works. Don't listen to your neighbor. Don't listen to somebody at the Little League game Friday night. Don't listen to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. Listen.

to your doctors and your doctors will in fact steer and there may be a few outliers i'm not saying there aren't some doctors that are crazy about this but there most of the doctors are grounded in science, they've trained for years in it, and they will give you the right advice. I think that is sound advice that you were giving your own children, Claire, I would add to that. Don't listen to influencers on social media, listen to folks who actually have the expertise in the degrees. Dr. Gundy, the other part of the interview that I found particularly alarming was that Dana Bash asked. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about sort of preparation for a future pandemic. And his baseline answer was something about the constitutional rights of people who don't want vaccine mandates, but he was not actually able to articulate the lessons learned and the ways in which the current administration is or isn't preparing for a future pandemic. That would seem to me when you think about the long-tail damage. that an administration that does not follow the science can do, where we are likely to feel the repercussions of this period for the longest period of time. Yeah, and this is very concerning because our risk of having another natural spillover event from wildlife into humans, this is something we've seen repeatedly over time, whether you're talking about HIV or Ebola or MERS, COVID is just the most recent one. And we know it will happen again and again and again. You know, many of us who are experts in this field of infectious diseases and epidemiology, we assume there's going to be another pandemic. the next decade or so. And so whether it is a natural event or a bio weapon, that's another threat we are many of us very concerned about now. The combination of AI and synthetic biology really creates a novel threat here for which we need tools like vaccines and antivirals. Dr. Celine Gounder, thank you so much for your expertise and for spending some time with us today. Senator Claire McCaskill, thank you so much for spending the hour with me. I realize I, Hotel California did you. So thank you for your time. Ahead for us, the Trump DOJ opens a new front in its war on the press. I'm going to sneak in a quick break, and we'll be right back.

It's becoming a habit for this administration to use the legal system to intimidate reporters. And even after the Justice Department dropped its subpoenas against New York Times reporters over their Air Force One reporting, a new report from the Times reveals they haven't stopped trying. The Times now reports that a freelance reporter has been fighting a subpoena from the Trump administration. since February. It's seeking to force him to reveal his sources for a New York Times article published last fall about a failed top secret mission in North Korea in 2019, left two or three unarmed North Koreans dead. The Times writes this, quote, FBI agents showed up at the New York home of the reporter Matthew Cole to deliver the grand jury subpoena, which was issued by prosecutors in Newport News, Virginia, according to the people familiar with the matter, who described the private conversations. on the condition of anonymity. The Times is providing Cole with legal defense, and we are going to stay on that story. Thank you so much for spending part of this Monday with us. We are very grateful. Nicole's going to be back here tomorrow. Don't forget to check out her conversation with former acting FBI director, Brian Driscoll, on The Best People. You can catch me weekdays noon to 2 p.m. Eastern for On the Line. And tomorrow, join Rachel Maddo and our entire primetime team for special coverage of the last big primary night before November's midterms. That's tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Eastern. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. From roof repair to emergency plumbing and more. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com.