John Bolton becomes third Trump critic indicted

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The answer to that is becoming more apparent by the day. A lot. A lot more now than just a few months ago, a lot more than in January. In just the past few days, what we've seen, and we've been trying to keep up with, a growing number of people and groups and institutions who are standing up to Donald Trump and simply saying, no. It seems like the harder that MAGA leans into the authoritarianism, the more people are finding the voice to push back. Earlier this month, Trump offered nine top universities a deal to keep their federal funding in exchange from making their campuses essentially more MAGA. They would become kind of adjuncts of the state. So far, three top universities, MIT, Brown, and Penn have told Trump, no. We will not allow our campuses and our faculties to be held hostage. They all saw how he picked apart Columbia after Columbia's trustees cut a deal. Trump governs like a mafioso running a protection racket. You're intimidated into making a corrupt bargain with him, and you find that the deal keeps getting worse all the time, right? There's no backing out once you say yes. People seem to be realizing the only way to resist is to say no en masse. And again, that is happening more and more every day, every look. In fact, right now, here's a great story about this. It's happening in a kind of unlikely place. It's happening in airports around the country. So these airports were told by the TSA, they were ordered to air this political propaganda message by the administration. Secretary of Homeland Security, Christine Hone, blaming Democrats for the government shutdown. Hi, I'm Christine Ome, the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. It is TSA's top priority to make sure that you have the most pleasant and efficient airport experience as possible while we keep you safe. However, Democrats in Congress refuse to fund the federal government, and because of this, many of our operations are impacted. The chances are that if you're flying anywhere this week, you're not seeing that at. Administrators at the airport in Portland, Oregon, when Kristi Noem's agents are tussling with protesters and frog costumes, pointed out that her ad is just an open violation of the Hatch Act, which is supposed to prevent open politicking by sitting administration officials. It's still the law of the land. Not even airports in South Dakota, where Kristi Noem was governor until January running the ad. At the state's biggest airport, Sioux Falls Regional, and administrator said, the video is not airing because the airport does not have monitors appropriate for the purpose. He said existing monitors are devoted to flight-related information. Our producers identified at least 40 airports around the country that are just saying, no, they're refusing to air known, including all the New York Area airports, major hubs in Atlanta, Chicago, L.A. and Las Vegas. And we told you earlier this week about resistance to the Trump administration coming from the reporters who cover the Pentagon day and day out. These are not ideological folks. A lot of these work at mainstream news outlets. They don't have any sort of bias here, right? They're just trying to do their jobs. And this was them yesterday. This is the scene. There's virtually everyone in the Pentagon Press Corps, right? Across the court of sort of spectrum, turned in their access badges, emptied out their work spaces, and vacated the building.

Rather than agree to the administration's new restrictions, they were essentially told to act as stenographers that they wanted to keep their access, right? Basically authorized reporting only. And everyone refused, except for the far-right one America News Network. But just them. I mean, Newsmax said no. There was refusal from Fox News, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, former employer. It's also happening in federal grand juries where regular citizens are refusing to indict their peers with charges trumped up by this administration. like a young woman in D.C. who was accused of assaulting an FBI agent during a protest against immigration officials. Now, the office, Trump's hand-pecked U.S. attorney, Janine Piro, tried three times to indict her on a felony with like serious jail time attached, right? They failed every time. So then they got her indicted on a misdemeanor. And late this evening, listen to this. After a brief trial in less than two hours of deliberation, jurors returned a not guilty verdict. These jurors and reporters and airport administrators and university presidents, right, join a Democratic Congress that seems to have found its backbone now nine months into this, saying no to a president killing health care subsidies, illegally impounding funds, creating new funds out of thin air that he's not legally allowed to access. And they join a growing number of judges saying, In no uncertain terms, and again, across the ideological spectrum, appointed by President's Democrat and Republican, no. No, you can't put American troops on city streets. You can't have armed agents wearing masks and refusing to identify yourselves and violating people's Fourth Amendment rights. Just pulling them over, grabbing them, detaining them. They join thousands of Americans who are monitoring ICE in their neighborhoods, documenting raids in many cases preventing illegal arrests through just nonviolent witness. All of this is different than those first few months, the administration, right? I mean, then it was like this snowballed, just rolling down a mountain. It was like so fast, and you saw law firms saying yes, and university's saying yes, and everyone kind of not sure what to do, but everywhere you look now, the nose are piling up, they are. And all of those noes are coming as we approach a weekend where millions of people, millions, will take the streets in thousands of communities across the country as part of the No King's March. Ezra Levin is a co-founder, co-executive director of Indivisible, one of the key organizers of the No King's protests. George Conway is a conservative attorney, president of society for the rule of law, and they both join me now. Ezra, so many people have energy they want to put somewhere right now. And I think so many people also had that same feeling early on of watching institutions they trusted or...

People they trusted not saying no, saying like, well, yes for now or maybe, or do you also feel that there is an uptick in this energy to resist, to say no, and that no is a complete sentence and people are understanding that? Chris, it's been incredible to watch this change. Eleven months ago, the conventional wisdom was that Trump was all powerful. He was rolling in with the trifecta. There was no point in organizing to stop him. That's what we heard from institution after institution universities, law firms, media institutions. You said it. And look at where we are now. On Saturday, there will be the largest peaceful protest in modern American history. Yeah, we'll be in Chicago. We'll be in New York. We'll be in D.C., we'll be in L.A. But, gosh, we'll be in East. Glacier Park in Montana. We'll be in Homer, Alaska. The little town that I grew up in rural Texas, there are three in that county. This is in red states, blue states, purple states, rural areas, suburban areas, urban areas, and it's led by normal everyday people. I think what we're seeing right now, it's something we've heard a lot, but what we're seeing in real time in front of our own eyes is this basic idea. Courage is... contagious, and it's spreading all over the country right now. George, I want to, the case of this woman in Sydney Reed is so remarkable to me, and as a lawyer who's practiced in federal court, you'll appreciate it. I mean, You know, prosecutors can go their whole career and never get a no bill from a grand jury. I mean, you know, it basically is, it essentially is a rubber stamp. It's a little bit of check, a little bit of process, but it's a very easy bar to clear. You got three no bills from one grand jury. Then they go down to the misdemeanor. And they're going to try you for misdemeanor. She gets acquitted. Here's the statement from Sidney Reed today. I feel sorry for the prosecutors, really, who must be burdened by Trump's irrational and unfounded hatred for his fellow man. knowing that I can stand in front of 12 of my fellow citizens and be found not guilty for standing up for basic human rights makes me feel like despite the scary times we live in, we have hope for the future. And this to me is just such a remarkable example of the system holding in so many places it hasn't, but we've got due process for a reason and here's what it looks like.

I just, I totally agree with you. And all I want to do is just applaud what you just read. And I think it's absolutely right that courage is contagious. I think that what happens is everybody looks for somebody else to stand up and to defy, you know, the authoritarianism. But once you get enough people doing it, it becomes safe to do it. You become excited about doing it. And I think that's what's going to happen this weekend with the No Kings rally. Do you feel, Ezra, they've been hammering this message about this is a hate America rally. And they've actually been giving it a lot of publicity, which I think is sort of a somewhat strange tactical choice. I want to show what Scott Bessent said about it. Take a listen to his remarks. I believe that the Democrats will come to their census soon. Maybe it's after this no kings thing, but no kings equal no paychecks. If in fact they are waiting for this no king's protest, you know, no kings means no paychecks, no paychecks and no government. I'm not quite sure the point. What do you make of their tactical decision to highlight these protests as much as they have? Chris, I want to be 100% clear for everybody watching this. We did not pay one single dime to these Republicans to give us all this publicity. I am thankful, somewhat confused, but they're choosing to highlight it. And what we are seeing is just skyrocketing RSVPs and event registrations. So, you know, my first reaction is I laughed. Do you know how we closed out the Philly No Kings rally in June? Leah, my spouse and I, we closed it out 100,000 people waving American flags and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. That's what these rallies look like. They are joyful. They are boisterous. They are patriotic. And anybody with any passing knowledge knows that. And the Republicans feel trapped. They're losing this shutdown fight. They are losing popular support. People reacting negatively all across the country. And so they're looking for what to do. You'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't systematically trying to undermine the Americans. Republican. George, you had the experience of being someone who spent a lifetime in Republican politics. There was some reporting that you were considered for Solicitor General in the first-term administration. Many people in Republican politics and Republican legal circles are friends of yours and colleagues for a long period of time. And you sort of emerged in the beginning slowly and merged more as a critic. But I want to you to talk about the psychology of that. Because it does strike me that on this same point about like, there's a kind of civic psychology here. A little emperor has no clothes. A little bit like, it's okay to say these things. We're still a free society of learning that you could just say no. Like this idea that you can't criticize the president or people have to be scared is so offensive to our most basic beliefs. But how did you, how did that development work for you? Look, I mean, if you had told me in 2018 that I'd be on your show in 2025, talking about a second presidential term for Donald Trump where he's basically violating every statute in the book and the Constitution, every provision of the Constitution, I would not have believed you. Because what I thought was going to happen was that, look, I knew a lot of people in 2017, 2018, who were saying what thought about Trump on the right?

But they just went along and I thought, you know, if I stood up and said something, other people would have the courage to stand up. Didn't happen. It happened with a few people, and I formed the group that I'm now president of, but it wasn't anywhere close to a critical mass on the right, which is why you have a completely docile and completely subjugated Republican Party of cowards in the House and the Senate and basically the upper reaches of the Republican Party, leaving apart the ones who were just racist and corrupt. Let's put that aside. So I thought this day was going to... This would gay would never happen because it was going to come sooner at least. Right. But finally it's happening. And I really think that what, you know, it's not a strategy on their part to talk about this. They are scared. They are scared because they know people are coming out. So they go back to their old. You know, it's like Trump, Trump has sold more books for people who wrote bad books about him than anybody else on the planet. But the other thing about this is, the other thing about this is that that. They are scared. They are scared. So they go back to their number one tactic, which is they are lying liars who lie. So they lie about this. Oh, it's funded by Soros. Oh, it's Antifa. Oh, these are violent people who by saying that Trump is an authoritarian and a fascist are inciting violence. No, we're not the ones who are sending armed troops to face off against fraud in frogs in Portland. They're looking foolish and they're looking scared. And I think that's just going to embolden people. I think that's why the RSVPs must have gone up. And I want to say to just Ezra, say thank you, Ezra, in your team and your people, the amount that the organizational capacity and the competence and the courage. You Americans owe you big time. There is, we should note, a huge coalition of folks that are participating along with this. And you could look up, No Kings, if that's something you're interested in. Ezra Levin and George Conway, thank you both. Appreciate it. Coming up, we've got the inside story between Donald Trump's latest political persecution. That's next. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out, we weren't alone. If someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? While now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah, so do we. Here at Designer Shoe Warehouse, we'll give you something to brag about. Like the latest styles from brands you love, or the trends everyone's obsessing over. Or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Find shoes that get you with prices that get your budget. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today. DSW.

Let us surprise you. Every wireless service comes with a cost, right? Wrong. The Text Now app lets you do your thing for free. Get Real Talk, Real Text, and 5G data for must have apps with no monthly bill. Need more data? Add it right from the app. Done? Go back to free. No long-term contracts. No pressure. No surprises. Just wireless that works around you. Text Now. We've got your back. Download TextNow in your app store today. Wireless plans require the purchase of a SIM card. Visit TextNow.com for terms and conditions. Donald Trump's former national security advisor turned critic John Bolton has been indicted on federal charges related to the mishandling of classified documents. This makes him the third Trump foe to be indicted by this Department of Justice in less than a month. John Bolton was just indicted by Grand Doree in Maryland. Do you have a reaction to that? I didn't know that. You tell me for the first time, but I think he's, you know, a bad person. I think he's a bad guy, yeah, he's a bad guy. It's too bad, but it's the way it does. Now, this case still may be pretextual. The Department of Justice has essentially no credibility left, but on its face, it doesn't seem to be quite as, let's say, unfounded as the cases against former FBI director James Comey or New York State Attorney General Letitia James. Prosecutors say John Bolton sent thousands of pages of information from his time in the first of Trump administration to his wife and daughter, who then typed the information up for him. John Bolton's lawyer says his client did not commit a crime, and essentially he was just keeping a diary, which is not illegal. But unlike Comeyer-James, multiple career prosecutors in the DOJ have worked on charging the case, right? We don't have the situation we had in Virginia where no one would touch the case. They even had to fire the U.S. Attorney. Some of those prosecutors are now stuck in an epic internal battle against Trump's desire to misuse the DOJ to target his enemies. MSNBC is now reporting that Kelly Hayes, Trump's acting U.S. Attorney, Maryland, indicted John Bolton specifically because she thought it was legitimate case and that the U.S. Attorney hopes that by indicting John Bolton, she might relieve some of the pressure to bring charges against Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California, charges she does not believe to be legitimate. I'm joined now by MSNEC investigator reporter Carol Lenig, who has been covering this story. Carol, this is incredible reporting sort of behind the scenes here. Tell us the sort of context here. This case comes out of Maryland. This is not the Eastern District of Virginia, and it seems like the pressure that has been falling on Eastern District and other places is falling very hard on Maryland as well. Absolutely, Chris. I mean, we've all been focused on Virginia, right? I mean, two of Donald Trump's top top in the hit parade of people he wants to target for prosecutions were charged in the Eastern District of Virginia. But in Maryland, there was another drama going on. In D.C., there was another drama going on. In the Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville, there is another drama going on. And that's what we really tried to unearth and sort of.

unveil for readers, which is this pressure campaign from the White House to go after people Trump wants to punish is intense for prosecutors who do not believe the facts justify a case. And so what did we find? In Maryland, Kelly Hayes was dealing with incredible pressure from the White House and regular monitoring meetings with a Trump ally named Ed Martin, who heads up the DOJ's new weaponization task force. And those meetings were all about, when are you going to charge Senator Adam Schiff of California with mortgage fraud? The problem with charging Adam Schiff with mortgage fraud, is there's very little evidence prosecutors have concluded according to our sources. So what the acting U.S. attorney in Maryland has been doing is basically serving up John Bolton brought the charges against him because it was a reasonable case. It had facts. He did have, according to her office, national defense information. But really, the subplot behind this, Chris, is John Bolton is a great way to keep Trump and the White House pleased and not have to face the huge confrontation that is likely coming, her prosecutors predict, when she says, we can't charge Adam Schiff. I just can't do it. Yeah, and I want to just, you know, I want to move to some of the other stories here, but just to put a fine point on this. I mean, you know, everyone. in the last nine months has had these sort of moral tests, right? Like, what do you do and where's your integrity and what's a line you can and can't cross? And I'm totally sympathetic to the conundrum that people find themselves in. We should just note that, like, this is a highly admirable situation. And at some level, it's hard not to taint. You know, again, whether you think the case is a good case or not, it's hard not to taint it when you're making this kind of calculation of like, well, we'll give you this one so we don't have to do that one. Presumably, that's also going to play a factor in his defense in all sorts of filings and really hurts the department writ large. Right, right. I'm so glad you underline that, Chris, because let's be honest, these prosecutors took an oath to the Constitution. And we can all talk about, you know, la-di-da, what does that mean? But what it means is the prosecutors don't bring cases that they think are BS. Prosecutors don't bring cases where they don't think they can honorably, candidly tell the court. This is a case beyond the reasonable doubt, which we will convict and we will sustain with the evidence. That's a, that's like a moral imperative for so many of the people that we speak to on a regular basis and are struggling with this. And also, let's be honest on point number two, which you also help underline with your focus on this.

Donald Trump has made the Department of Justice untrustworthy because when you have turned all of your rocket jets and all of your rocket fire and all of your weaponry of the mighty Department of Justice, which is supposed to protect us from crime, protect us from unequal treatment, protect us from politicized, weaponized justice, he has made it so even now. When we have John Bolton's indictment in front of us, people are questioning. Yeah. Is the evidence all that? Right. I mean, what I see, not a lawyer. But what I see from having covered classified cases before is this is pretty significant stuff that he's appeared to have held in home and transmitted to his family members. But now trust is gone. You also have some reporting about concerns that this is going to start being used, has already been used with the election in mind as we head towards the midterms next year. You know, there's all these procedures and stuff. And when you think about it, like, okay, if you could do whatever you wanted, like, maybe you just indict the leading Democratic candidate for a swing district three weeks before the election, right? There's a whole bunch of stuff you could do. But you got reporting that sort of shows concrete worries about that right now. I love what a close reader you are. And I will just say, yes, what we learned also sort of. made us smack our foreheads because we have all been trained as reporters who cover law enforcement, justice. fair investigations, the care with which the Department of Justice hewed to this rule, the 60 day rule, the 90 day rule, the 30 day rule. You don't take investigative or prosecutorial steps that are done so close to an election 60 days before because you don't want to influence the outcome and you don't even want to appear. to be looking like your purpose is to influence the election. And indeed, Merrick Garland was extremely, extremely conservative and cautious in his own interpretation, Biden's Attorney General, about the 60-day rule and what was an overt investigative step. But right now, we have Lindsey Halligan and the U.S. attorney in Virginia in the Eastern District. Prosecutors are sort of freaking out because she's pushing. for action, pushing for action on indicting a democratic lawmaker. We don't know what the facts are. They could be great. The evidence could be stunning. But by pushing for this now, right before a Virginia election involving the governor, are you trying to influence the election? That's the question that prosecutors are struggling with. Carol Lennig, great reporting. It's so amazing to have you here just churning out scoops. It's what a great, great, great asset. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Chris. Still ahead as Donald Trump continues to target his critics, Senator Richard Blumenthal joins me right here on what comes next after this. John Bolton now joins a handful of Trump critics who have been indicted by his Department of Justice, including former FBI director James Comey, New York, Attorney General Letitia James. But it doesn't stop with those three. Donald Trump has his eyes set on his next perceived enemy and political target. They have committed massive political crime. I hope they're looking at shifty shift. I hope they're looking at all these people. And I'm allowed to find out. I'm allowed to, you know, I'm in theory, the chief law enforcement officer. But I have a very good, talented group. This is about something else. But I hope they're looking at political crime because there's never been so much political crime against a political opponent as what I had to go through. Joining us now, Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat Connecticut, member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Armed Forces Committee. Good to have you here. Thank you. Adam Schiff's colleague. We have the president openly saying it. We've got his direct message to Pam Bondi, and now we've got new reporting from our colleague Carol Lennox saying that this indictment of John Bolton is in some senses being presented in good faith by the office. They believe they have a case here, but also partly to take the heat off the pressure to go after Adam Schiff. There's just no question at this point that Donald Trump is waging a pressure campaign on prosecutors to target his political enemies or adversaries. And these first two prosecutions of James and James Comey are so dubious. They're going to taint prosecutions afterward, including John Bolton's. We don't know the facts and all the legal claims relating to John Bolton, but we know for sure that Donald Trump, in these statements and in the flimsyness of those first two prosecutions is decimating the presumption of regularity that normally prosecutors have when they walk into a courtroom. I had it when I was U.S. attorney. the District of Connecticut and what is... But presumption of regularity, you mean when you go before a judge representing the Department of Justice and representing the federal government, they basically afford you a certain kind of credibility, authority, they don't think you're lying, they don't think you're acting in bad faith, and that that is now, how can a judge apply that anymore? The presumption of credibility or regularity is now decimated. And when I was the United States Attorney, the judges rightly presumed that I was trying to do the right thing. Seat justice. Right. And here what you have is essentially a pressure campaign brought by the President of the United States. By the way, he is not the chief law enforcement. I've never heard that before. That was a new one to me. Like they say, it's like no one says that. But anyway. And he is really trying to use his personal Avengers.

the Attorney General of the United States, Pam Bondi, who is doing his sycophantic bidding against political adversaries. So I think we are in a new era here. And Richard Nixon, by the way, had his enemies list. Yeah, famously. Surreptitiously. Yes. Privately. Yeah, he should have put it up on a billboard. And Donald Trump is doing it right out in the open in a way that I think is so extraordinary. Well, let me, can I have a follow up on that? I ask everyone this. They don't, do they just not think the shoe will ever be on the other foot? I mean, that should be the kind of limiting aspect, right? Whether it's, you know, that you think that, well, if we use the power in this way and the shoesy on their foot, and I think Trump thinks, well, they prosecuted me, so all bets are off. But Republican senators, like, if they indict shift, does that get through to Republican senators that, like, do you want to live in this world? Not yet. in a way that they will talk about it publicly, but they do understand, I think, at a basic level that, yes, today it's James Comey, today it's James, today it's John Bolton, but tomorrow it could be you. It was been in the conservative moment in the Republican Party for 40 years. And here's the thing. What we need really is legislation. I propose, along with Dan Goldman, Congressman from New York, that will forbid direct or indirect intrusion or direction, instruction by the President of the United States, the White House, in the Department of Justice. Second. That's good. Yeah. Grand jury reform. Yeah. So that exculpatory evidence should be presented and there should be more transparency. And then a right of action, which exists at the state level in many states. Wow. against malicious prosecution. If you're a victim of selective prosecution, you should have the right to sue. That's all makes a lot of sense to me. I want to talk about another place where the law is being sort of trampled. And again, in the grand scheme of things, the Hatch Act, which forbids the sort of overt partisan use of the government is, is maybe not as. grave as, you know, prosecuting someone. But you have a letter along the center read about these violations, particularly the Kristi Noem video that they won't show. Federal law clearly prohibits using federal funding for partisan political activities. This is a violation of the Hatch Act and the anti-lobbing actor. Are you at least happy to see the airports pushing back? You know, I... spoke to our caucus just recently, and the airports of the country are actually standing up to the Secretary of Homeland Security in a way that none of us would have predicted. And you were right to highlight earlier in this show that there are also glimmers of resistance from the universities, from the... press at the Pentagon. And it is a very heartening sign that the airports that are being handicapped in many ways by the failure to pay the TSA and the air controllers are saying no to Kristi Noem. We're not going to spread your political propaganda. We're going to stand up to you and we're going to do the right thing for the people who work here. And I think that this kind of political propaganda has no place.

being funded by taxpayer money. Of all the places I don't want to hear political propaganda, the place I want to hear the least is in an airport sitting on a TSA line. Senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you for making time tonight. Thank you. Still to come, as Donald Trump's lawless actions in Chicago escalate why a new court ruling could provide some hope ahead. Hi, it's Sierra Miller. I can't wait for you to check out my new collection of shoes and accessories at Designer Shoe Warehouse. If you love shoes as much as I do, then trust me, I got you. From cute sneakerinas to the perfect flip-flops to stunning heels. These shoes are all style, no drama. It's a girls' girl's summer, and DSW has just the shoes. Shop the Sierra Miller collection right now at your DSW store or DSW.com. And now, the next chapter of the Serta counting sheep. Hey, Uncle Number One, why aren't we counted anymore? Let me tell you a story. Long ago, Serta invented the perfect sleeper mattress. Oh, no. Oh, yes. It says the all-new Serta Perfect Sleeper with the Q4 support system has four and one perfectly interlinked coils that help relieve aches and back pain for perfect sleep night after night. We'll never get counted again. Uh, nope. Serta, we make the world's best mattress. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, from CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-Doo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-for-free at O-D-O-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-com.

Donald Trump has secretly authorized a CIA to conduct covert operations inside Venezuela. Yesterday in the Oval Office, Donald Trump confirmed this, so not so secret anymore, said he was weighing carrying out land operations on the country. Now, this comes as U.S. forces have destroyed at least five boats in the Caribbean since early September, killing 27 people with four of the vessels originating from Venezuela. Tonight, Reuters report there has been another strike on a boat in the Caribbean, and they are now reporting there are survivors among the crew, according to a U.S. official. Now, it's really important to note. These strikes all occurred without any due process or any really fully articulated legal basis. And it all comes as we are learning that the Admiral who leads Southern Command, which oversees military action in South America, announced he were retire in December, according to New York Times. It was unclear why Admiral Alvin Holsey is leaving now, they report, less than a year into his tenure, and in the midst of the biggest operation of his 37-year career, but one of the U.S. officials... all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity, discussed personnel matters, said that Admiral Holsey had raised concerns about the mission and the attacks on the alleged drug boats. On my wise as happening podcast, I talked to former federal prosecutor and law of war expert Mary McCord about those strikes, and she voiced her own very dire worries about what they can mean. I will grant you that cartels are responsible for bringing drugs into this country that ultimately kill, especially with fentanyl, many, many thousands of people, and that is a serious problem. But that does not make it an armed conflict with the United States where we can use the law of war, enter in hostilities, and kill people. And Chris, not to be hyperbolic, but if you can do that in the high seas and there is a federal... Why can't do it at home? Exactly. What would stop you from doing it in Boston or Washington, D.C., or Chicago, or any playouts else? And if you can do it because you said these cartels... are, you know, terrorists, because you've decided you're labeling them that, narco-terrorists, then what about the other terrorists, the people who the president is now calling terrorists? Again, I don't want to be hyperbolic, but where is the line, right? Because if it's just if the president says you're a terrorist and, you know, we're in a non-international armed conflict with you, and therefore we can use self-defense to, to, kill people, it's hard to see where the line is. It sure is. We also discuss legality and safety of deploying troops on American streets. And you can listen to that episode right now. I learned a ton from it. Just search Chris Hayes wherever you get your podcasts. We are seeing the daily menace of federal agents on the streets of American cities snatching up U.S. citizens, U.S. citizens on camera.

Here's another example. We have one every day. Yesterday, a lifelong Chicago resident recorded Border Patrol agents driving up to a south side Chicago neighborhood before tackling him and shoving him into the back of their SUV. Inside the SUV, Angel says they demanded his name, questioning his legal status repeatedly. They took me into their vehicle and demanded to ask who I am and what's my name and my illegal citizen. Which you are? Yes, I'm from Chicago away. Seemingly satisfied he was a citizen. He says they dumped him at the intersection of 87th and South Baltimore, about half a mile away from where he'd been picked up. But while Donald Trump's federal agents are still deployed aggressively on American streets, federal courts are resisting his domestic use of the military with a panel of appellate judges today, unanimously upholding a lower court ruling that bars him from sending National Guard troops into Chicago. Alex Wagner is an MSNBC senior political analyst and her new podcast, Runaway Country. Great name. Debuts on Crooked Media, a week from tonight. She joins me now. Good to have you here. Hi, my friend. Talk about runaway country. Yeah. No brakes on this car. Well, it does, so it does strike me as significant, you know, we've got, we had a federal judge in Oregon that said you couldn't do this. We had a federal judge in Illinois said you couldn't do this. And now an appellate judge is refusing to stay that order. So this does seem like a place where what they're trying to do feels so facially unlawful. And so far, courts are basically saying that. Right, as long as it doesn't get to the Supreme Court. Well, this is the problem, right? Yeah. This is. And by the way, the courage of these judges in some of these opinions is remarkable. It's so striking, isn't it? They are being targeted. Their families are being targeted. They are under real peril deciding to do the right thing for the American justice system. And they do it. eloquently and they do it fearlessly. And that is, you know, a testament to the strength of most of the judiciary. I think the issue is like when it lands in John Roberts lap, what happens then? It's such an important point because I've been thinking about this a lot of all the groups in society or particularly people in power, positions of power. District court federal judges, the first line of judges, who are the judges of sort of first impression, across the ideological spectrum, including Trump appointees like the judge in Oregon. have been some of the most clear-eyed about just saying what they are seeing. And issuing, in some cases, a little bit rarer, almost a call to action from the citizenry. I, you know, I... I feel like I watched that tape, Chris, and I thought you cannot divorce what is happening there from the racist texts that were being circulated by young Republican leaders, from the Supreme Court this week looking to gut the Voting Rights Act, from the administration's stated preference of white immigrants rather than black and brown immigrants. I mean, it is a suite of action this week in particular that really drives home.

the reorientation of American society that this administration seeks, which is to make America a place of white people and to answer the fundamental question, who gets to be here and who is an American, definitively as white people are. And this idea of, yes, creating this sort of default suspicion of non-white folks, which is being lived every day. I mean, I watch, I have to say, I don't know if you have this experience, I watch these videos, and I, I'm so, I mean, I covered criminal justice. I wrote a book about it. I covered stop and frisk. Like there have been all kinds of ways in which policing in this country has been really transgressed a lot of our constitutional rights. But what is happening now of like zero probable cause, zero anything, mass agents, roll up, they grab you? There's no charge. There's no nothing. It's just like it does feel like pure tyranny. Like literally the kinds of things the revolution was about. Absolutely. It feels like we're in a different century. Yeah. Part of the reason they have to do this out in broad daylight is because, and hats off to these groups, migrants' rights groups, immigrant rights groups have taught immigrants. how to prevent ICE from coming through their front doors, to know their rights, know that they need a search warrant. But as a result, you see what feels like extrajudicial actions on the part of these ICE agents and a terror that's purposeful, right? I mean, Chris, my mother... doesn't want to go outside or drive by herself anymore. Just because she's been an American citizen for 60 years. This is not accidental. The fact that anyone who's brown, anyone who's a future face, anyone who kind of looks like they're not 100% white, now lives in real fear that they could just be snatched. And part of it, too, is like there's a sort of race hierarchy embedded in it. And there's also this idea that you can make, there's a neat division. that they want to draw between citizens who are us and non-citizens who are them. Yeah. And that's not the way it works anywhere. No. And it's, I mean, this is great ProPublica reporting, and I just want to put my tip my cap to them because this is a kind of granular reporting. It's very hard to do and very laborious. But they actually went through and they found 170 U.S. citizens. who have been held by immigration agents, kicked, dragged, detained for days. They went through case-by-case-in-case. And again, this is not to say, like, it's okay if you do this to non-citizens, because it's not. But the point of it to me is they are trying to construct this division between these two categories that's like all mixed up. And it feels like... In households, in neighborhoods and everywhere. It feels like an afterthought that they're citizens, right? But actually... Yes. Right. Like, this should be something they are actively trying to not do, right? Because it undermines what the purpose of it. Exactly. The propaganda. And instead, it almost seems like, oh, they're fine with it if some brown citizens get dragged into the net. That's exactly right. Because it does produce... And it does seem like a real attempt to kind of both...

use force and also shows a force to make people scared. Well, and to make people who aren't white feel like they don't belong here, to give them pause when they get in their car to go to work in the morning. That is really actually what's unfolding. I mean, I feel it in my own family. I see it in my neighborhood. I see it in my community. People who have nothing to do with citizenship. There's no question about citizenship. The fear is the point. That's really profound and insidious. Alex Wagner, what a great pleasure to have you as always. Well, thank you for having you. That does it for All In. You can catch us every weeknight at 8 o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's facebook.com slash all in with Chris. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills first hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative roots. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Higher skills first. Learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.