Trump reassembles his 2020 coup crew amid 2026 midterm panic

People are building things here in America again, and this moment calls for the best of America, our people. Introducing America's Workforce Academy, built by Meta, a program helping to train the next generation of welders, fiber installers, crew leaders, and more. Paid training, a job, and a path to America's future, because the future is for everyone. Learn more at meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy. Need a lesson in savings? Who doesn't? That's where Burlington comes in for back-to-school style. Because those school lists get long, but your receipts shouldn't. Find backpacks and sneakers to sweatshirts and jeans. Burlington has them all from the brands your kids keep begging for. Why choose just a few looks? With our prices, just get them all. Burlington, deals, brands, wow. Tonight on All In. If a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it. The president wants to run elections in the places he didn't win. Rigged crooked elections. Take a look at Detroit. Take a look at Philadelphia. Tonight, Donald Trump's latest threat to choke off democracy with Senator Chris Murphy. The federal government should get involved. Then the Democratic push to rain in ice. These people, every single one of them, has to be held accountable. Congressman Robert Garcia on today's hearing with the family of Renee Good. Renee Good is our sister. We're here to ask for your help. And with Congressman Ro Khanna on his new calls for more investigations of the Jeffrey Epstein files. You know, when EFSI was alive, nobody cared about him. When he's dead, they care about him. And all ends starts right now. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. As you know, it is already 2026. We're in the midterm election year. Nine months away from Election Day, nine months today. And Donald Trump and members of his administration are already making moves to try to illegitimately take control of the American election system. Now, Trump doesn't want Republicans to lose the House and the Senate. One big reason in particular, I think, that he keeps making very clear. You got to win the midterms. Because if we don't win the midterms, it's just going to be, I mean, they'll find a reason to impeach me. I'll get impeached. I don't think he's wrong. And I really think he's very obsessed with legacy right now that he does not want to go for his third impeachment. He's obsessed with keeping control of Congress. I think, honestly, primarily for that reason, because it's not like he cares about passing legislation or cares about other people's electoral fortunes. But the thing is, he's obsessed about keeping Congress, and he has no real plan to do it normally or legitimately, right? I mean, despite all the bravado and the constant boasts about never being more popular, they know the score. The administration actually understands that Trump is in trouble. The Republican Party's in trouble. And it's not just polling. Look at this. You might have seen this over the weekend. A Texas special election that happened over the weekend in which a Democrat flipped a red state Senate seat.

winning by 14 points in a district Trump carried by 17 points in 2024. That's a 31 point swing. That is almost literally unheard of. Now, don't expect a blowout like that in November. You're going to have turnout that's going to be much higher. That was a low turnout election. Democrats tend to do better in those. But even a 10-point swing in the midterms would wipe out the Republican majority. Heck, a five-point swing in the midterms would wipe out the Republican House majority. So they know what they're facing. They see the writing of the walls. And they know they don't right now, unless things change dramatically, have a path to just outright winning a free and fair election. I mean, most normal incumbents who aren't Donald Trump see their party suffer losses in the midterms, right? So Donald Trump is exploring other plans. The first plan was to gerrymander congressional members. Why leave it up to voters to choose Republicans when Republicans could simply choose their voters? And so Donald Trump tenaciously constantly pushed red states to reddened their districts to be even redder, right? To change their congressional districts mid-decade, this never happens, right? Texas did it, Missouri did it, Ohio still may. But Trump's pressure generated a backlash. First among Republicans in, for instance, Indiana, who just told him to take a hike, wouldn't do what he wanted, despite J.E. JD Vance going there in person and fighting them to the White House, right? And also in blue states like California, which defensively redrew its maps. And so when all is said and done between California, what's happening in Virginia, maybe Maryland, the fact Indiana wouldn't do it, the whole thing made the gerrymandering war awash. It could actually in the end end up net benefiting the Democrats because Donald Trump started this fight. So now midterm election years upon us. That gerrymandering plan has really failed. I think they thought this was like their secret weapon, right? They're ace in the hole. No. So now it's time for the Republican plan B. And that is, and they're saying this out loud to fully seize the machinery of American voting. I mean, last week they started moving on this project in Fulton County, Georgia, where FBI agents raided the election office and left with nearly 700 boxes of ballots. That's all under the watchful eye of Trump's director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Her spokeswoman told MS now, Trump has ordered Tulsi Gabbard to investigate election security nationwide, even though she has no domestic law enforcement powers, and even though after the 1970s, we have a bunch of laws and regulations to separate domestic law enforcement from international intelligence. That's actually really important.

Now, former officials say that this is preposterous, and they also fear it's part of a plan to attempt to steal the midterms. Remember, Fulton County in Georgia, right, which contains Atlanta, was ground zero for Trump's 2020 election lies. Those were lies pushed by people like, for instance, former Trump aide Roger Stone, who posted a photo of himself with JD Vance just yesterday. Stone said they chatted, but didn't say what they chatted about. Also lies pushed by former Trump lawyer, Sidney Jerome Powell, remember her, who was seen just after the Georgia raid last week with Trump DOJ official Ed Martin. And remember, it was Jerome Powell along with disgraced former national security vice-o Michael Flynn and the former CEO of Overstock.com, Patrick Byrne, remember that guy, who all marched in the Oval Office in December 2020 and told Trump to seize voting machines and declare victory. Well, late last month, the former overstock guy, Patrick Byrne, reportedly accepted an invitation to the White House. And over the weekend, guess what? He praised the Fulton County raid. It looks like maybe you and Sydney Jerome Powell and a couple other people had the right idea way back when. Yes. It's, oddly enough, it's exactly what we were asking him to do December 18th, 2020. And what I thought he was going to do the first week he was back in power, took him a year and a week. And that's a measure not of Trump, but of the deep state. Now, you might be asking yourself. I particularly asked myself this when I saw Roger Stone post that photo at JD Vance. Hmm. Why are all the usual suspects from the 2020 attempted coup back in Trump's orbit now? Maybe to... Give it another run to try to rig future elections in the name of the 2020 election. I mean, just yesterday, Donald Trump was complaining about winning more states in 2020 on the podcast of his former FBI number two, Dan Bongino, Dan Bongino, who hated his job, apparently actually doing like government work and now wants to go back to podcasting. Trump adding, quote, we should take over the voting. The voting in 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. Now, that, of course, is illegal. It's a violation of all sorts of state federal statutes and constitutional principles of federalism. But today, of course, Trump just doubled down. What exactly did you mean when you said that you should nationalize elections? And which 15 states are you talking about? I wouldn't see elections be honest. And if a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it. Because, you know, if you think about it, a state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway. But when you see some of these states about how horribly they run their elections, what a disgrace it is, I think the federal government, when you see...

Crooked elections, and we had plenty of them. And by the way, we had them last time, but go to 2020. Look at the facts that are coming out. Rigged crooked elections. If we have areas, take a look at Detroit. Take a look at Pennsylvania. Take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the places that are horrible corruption on elections. And the federal government should not allow that. The federal government should get involved. These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. If they can't count the votes legally and honestly, then somebody else should take home. Now, keep in mind, I mean, these are a lies, right? And this is a guy who has said he thinks he won California multiple times. I mean, it's like meeting someone and then telling you like they can fly like Superman or me just like telling you like, oh yeah, I'm seven feet four inches. Like, what do you do with that? That's a person who is. I don't know, diagnosable in some way, something, right? This is the guy who told Georgia's election supervisor to find him 11,000 votes. He's worried about the states counting their votes. You can see why, right? Because they counted them accurately. So last week, Republicans unveiled a make elections great again bill to put new limits on voting by mail and voter registration drives, as well as mandate voter ID issued by the federal government, as well as new voter surveillance programs. Who's going to stop it? Well, definitely not the Speaker of the House, a guy who voted against certifying the 2020 election, who is an election denier, and got back to his election truth or roots on Capitol Hill today. We know it's in our system. The states have been in charge of administering their elections. What you're hearing from the president is his frustration about the lack of some of the blue states, frankly, of enforcing these things and making sure that they are free and fair elections. We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on election day in the last election cycle. And every time a new tranche of ballots came in, they just magically whittled away until their leads were lost. It looks on its face to be fraudulent. Can I prove that? No, because it happened so far upstream. Okay. I mean, the reason they lost was because the votes came in that had more Democrats voting for the person. But they don't like that, right? I mean, that's the key thing, right? Mike Johnson, Donald Trump, all of them together agree on this point. They don't want people to choose who gets to win elections. They want to say who wins elections so that they never have to lose an election. And the entire definition of a democracy is a system in which the ruling party can lose an election. That's it. That's the one-sentence democracy. They don't like it. And remember, in addition to all this, masked armed federal agents are disappearing people off the streets in multiple cities. They're terrorizing people into staying homes. They are shooting law-abiding observers, killing them in some cases, while the administration tells states, like Minnesota and Pennsylvania.

Policy on Venezuela, to his use of ICE officers in Minneapolis, to the entire operation of the FBI is in service of two goals, trying to rewrite the 2020 election and trying to get ready to make sure that nobody other than him and his allies win in 2026 and 28. Now, there's one level of that, which is this actual legislation, right, which would federalize some parts of voting. And it's unclear to me whether it would survive constitutional challenge. It obviously has support in the House. Some of his most sort of like, what's the right word, out there members in the House were saying that they had gotten John Thune to kill the filibuster to pass this thing in the Senate. I just want to... read what John Thune said today because this is the first level. It would be a really bad piece of legislation and probably help them, although I think maybe not do the thing they wanted to. But here's what John Thune said. He reject Trump's call for GOP to take over nationalized elections. I'm not in favor of federalizing elections. No, I think it's a constitutional issue, he told reporters. I'm a big believer in decentralized and distributed power. I think it's harder to hack 50 election systems than it is to hack one. In my view, at least, that's always a system that has worked pretty well. Where do you think that part of this story stands in the Senate? Yeah, I mean, I think that the SAVE Act, which is the piece of legislation that the House is referring to today, is probably the beginning, not the end. Because you're right, the SAVE Act in and of itself is a terrible piece of legislation, but probably doesn't give the president the power he wants to come in and take over an election. But I do think the president is going to put the screws to John Thune and his allies in the Senate, because his options to steal the election are going to continue to narrow. And so he is likely to want a piece of legislation that may not be constitutional, but at least... tests the question to the Supreme Court of whether there's circumstances where he can come in and take over a state election. I don't think Trump yet has really put the screws to Senate Republicans. on getting rid of the filibuster. He's made references, some vague threats, but he hasn't worked the phones. The one thing that he will work the phones on when it comes to getting rid of the filibuster would be a piece of legislation to give him the power to at least attempt to take over these elections. So I just don't think this story is written yet. I think at some point over the spring or the summer, Trump is likely going to try to get the Senate to give him the arguable power to come in. and intervene in these elections. That question will probably go to the Supreme Court, and we may end up having to rely on John Roberts and Amy Cohen to bear it to step in and say, yes, the Constitution is just crystal clear. No piece of legislation can take away the power to run elections from the states. Last question for you, because I always don't want to subscribe to domerism when this is the topic, because I do think there's a useful lesson in the gerrymandering fight. I mean, that really did look like a...

insidious but sort of deviously clever way of trying to come up with an extra seven seats or eight seats, which, you know, is significant. It's been basically knocked back. I mean, really, like the mobilization by the various Democratic states, what happened in California primarily, but also the resistance in Indiana, what we're seeing come out of Maryland, Virginia. And it seems to me there's a playbook there for the same thing here. Like, this is, I mean, yeah. Do you agree with me? I'm not being naive in thinking this is not some fait accompli. There are lots of levers and mechanisms for state officials, county officials, all sorts of folks to fight back against them. Yeah. And again, we have the benefit of the Constitution being crystal clear here, right? The Constitution has a specific clause that reserves the power to run elections to the states. But there's another piece here. The Georgia senators were actually reminding a handful of us today that when Georgia tried to make it harder for people to vote, it had the opposite impact in that people got so upset in Georgia that their right to vote was being taken away or there was an attempt to take it away that they turned out in record numbers in 2020. And so the same thing may happen here. That as the word gets out in states that Trump is targeting that he is trying to steal from them the right to cast their ballots, people may be absolutely determined, people that maybe didn't have previous plans to vote to come out and make sure that they make their voice heard, no matter what barriers are put in front of them, no matter how many federal officials or ICE agency throws at the polling places. So, no, this can backfire on him just like the redistricting ploy did. And that ultimately will be up to American citizens as much as it is to members of the Senate or constitutional lawyers. Senator Chris Murphy, Connecticut. Thank you for your time tonight, sir. Appreciate it. Coming up, Congressman Robert Garcia on a remarkable hearing they had today about ICE, its conduct, including relatives of Mitt Romney Good. The pharmacy system is outdated, and it's time for a change. Optum RX is introducing an industry-first transparent pharmacy care model, with a pricing approach where clients pay a monthly per-member fee for services that is independent of manufacturers' list prices or prescription volume, and digital tools that help consumers compare pricing. It's a smarter model built to work better for everyone. That's how Optum RX continues to reset the standard. Learn more at Optum.com slash transparency. People are building things here in America again, and this moment calls for the best of America, our people. Introducing America's Workforce Academy, built by Meta, a program helping to train the next generation of welders, fiber installers, crew leaders, and more. Paid training, a job, and a path to America's future, because the future is for everyone. Learn more at meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy.

Listen to your favorite MS Now shows anytime as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House, and the Rachel Maddo Show. Every small D Democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell, the beat with Ari Melburgh, the weeknight, and more. On the go, wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening to all of your favorite shows, subscribe to MS Now Premium on Apple Podcasts. The deep distress our family feels because of Ney's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change. In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation. thinking that perhaps Ney's death would bring about change in our country. And it is not. That was one of Renee Goods brothers, Luke Gangor, testifying at a remarkable hearing in Congress today where families of victims and survivors were counted what they went through as a result of the occupations in Minneapolis and Chicago by the Department of Homeland Security. No Republicans attended the hearing. It was held by the minority on the committee. One of the victims who spoke out was Mara Martinez. She's a 30-year-old U.S. citizen and Montessori schoolteacher. Back in October, She was honking to warn residents about an ice presence in a southwest Chicago neighborhood when she was rammed by federal agents and shot five times. According to her lawyer, body cam footage they uncovered showed a customs and border protection officer saying, do something, bitch, before opening fire. Today, Martinez told Congress about the enormous toll this has had on her. The physical scars will always be there in the mornings and evenings. When I get dressed and I stare at my body, now permanently disfigure by the five lead bullets eggs on fire into me. And perhaps even worse, the mental scars will always be there as a reminder of the time. My own government attempted to execute me. And when they fell, they chose to vilify me. I am Renee Good. I am Alex Pready. I am Silberio Villegger Gonzalez. I am Key Katie Porter. They should all be here today. Congressman Robert Garcia's Democratic California, ranking member of the House Oversight Reform Committee. He and Senator Richard Blumenthal organized today's hearing, and Congressman Garcia joins me now. I was watching some of the footage from today is remarkable. What did you learn today? I mean, first, it's been horrifying. It's hard to actually hear the stories. It's hard to accept that our own government is that the one causing this enormous violence. Look, just first to Ms. Martinez, I can't imagine what she is continuing to go through being shot five times, then having the CBP agent call her names, then having him text other friends of his.

messages about how he shot her and was proud, essentially, of the work he had done. I mean, that is just disgusting and vile. And then, of course, to have Miss Goods brothers there, it was hard to hear them talk about their disappointment in not feeling like their sister's death has actually moved our country in any way. I think it was very painful for those that were there and certainly for those that we're watching. And we have to do better. Our government is killing, maiming, disfiguring, and causing massive trauma to our own U.S. citizens and people in this country and it has to end. I want to play for you some footage from just today to the point that Luke Gangor was making of DHS officials, pulling over people that were observing ice in their cars with their guns drawn and menacing them. Take a listen to this. So you know, that you guys were all threatening us yesterday with handguns. So people in the car were threatening you as new guns? Yeah. Hand guns. We know. Oh, you mean like with hand symbols? Pulling them out trying to engage us. Pulling out literal guns. No. Making assuming that we were going to do something. So that's why they're being IDed right now. When that car is first pulled over, we showed a portion of that, but there's other part of the tape where the agents just have their guns out like this immediately. It's unclear whether the people inside that car had weapons or not. I certainly can't take at face value what they're saying there. But it does seem to me that this extremely aggressive and dangerous way of going after people just observing even has not changed so far. Do you have indications that anything has changed? Nothing's changed. In fact, we're getting reports on the ground from different communities and including Minneapolis that in some cases things are worse, that the agents are more aggressive, that they're upset by somehow directions of being pulled back by some, that they're upset that there's actually protesting, that they're being called out by not just those in leadership, by people on the ground, advocates, families, the families that have lost people that are being incarcerated for no reason. We have ICE. CBP, DHS as a whole right now is out of control and without leadership. These agents are harming and hurting and killing people. And this whole idea that somehow we can make the situation better or that somehow we can reform ICE to be a better agency. It's just not possible. We have to get back to a place pre-9-11 where we actually had real immigration enforcement that at least was more humane. And so we have to think about not just so that we've lost, but the danger for our communities in the future. I'm proud of this hearing today, but there's a lot more work to do, and we've got to focus now on the impeachment of Secretary Kristi Noem.

I just saw a photo just a little while ago of a guy, DHS Asian, and like a skeleton mask, sort of like Punisher lower face. And it seems to me the masking part of it is like the lowest hanging fruit. I think it's just obvious common sense. It pulls extremely highly. It seems like a totally reasonable thing to ask. You know, they talk about them being docks. But like federal judges get docks too. And if you walked into your trial and your judge had a mask on. you wouldn't think that you're getting, you know, you're walking into a democratic space, right? So that just doesn't work. I mean, cops are everywhere in this country and they don't have masks. Here's Mike Johnson, though, responding to what seems to me, again, a very low-hanging fruit, like reasonable ask. Here's what Mike Johnson had to say. They want masks off of these ICE agents. They want them wearing ID that tells exactly who they are. I mean, are those are the kinds of things that you think any of your members are going to cave on? Well, those two things are conditions that would create further danger. I mean, Tom Homan told Leader Chuck Schumer himself, I was part of the conversation in the Oval Office a few days ago, is that that's the one of the demands that I'm not going to be able to implement. I have to protect my officers. What do you think of that? I mean, that's the biggest bullshit of all time. Look, I was mayor before I was in Congress a few years ago. I had 800 police officers that worked, very worked hard to try to gain the trust of the public, which is often difficult in law enforcement. And they, I talk to many of them still, they are horrified. by the actions of ICE. Our police chiefs across this country are horrified. The rank and file police officers can't believe that the standard is being degraded and destroyed. Police officers don't wear masks. Police officers generally have body cameras. And now we're allowing a federal law enforcement agency to essentially break the trust of law enforcement to destroy decades of work that police officers have tried to build some level of trust, especially where there's been so many incidents that we've had in the last decade. you think about George Floyd and so many other things that have happened. We're wearing masks and body cameras is a bare minimum in folks interacting with the public. We are at this moment right now where every single American is seeing with their own eyes, video, and footage and photos. This administration is attacking and terrorizing communities and killing our own people, and it's got to end. We've got to demand it. Congressman Robert Garcia. Thank you for your time. Still ahead, Congressman Ro Khanna is demanding more Epstein investigations. He, of course, the co-author of that legislation. He joins me next.

People going through the latest release of Epstein files, there's a few top lines. While the Trump Department of Justice did dump three million files on Friday, there are still about three million more we haven't seen. Also, the files include actual unredacted nude pictures of young women and possibly teenagers. And this comes after the, let's say, extremely dubious claims by DOJ. The whole reason that they violated the deadline and taken so long to release the files is to protect the victims, but they failed. Finally, we're learning there are a bunch of people who were very chummy with child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein or trying to get chummy with them. Not the least of them, the world's richest man, Elon Musk, who emailed Epstein multiple times asking about parties, quote, On your island, what day night will be the wildest party? Now, Elon Musk has denied attending Epstein's parties and going to his island. But the biggest question remains, what are they still hiding? Have they actually comply with the law requiring the release of the files and what now? Congressman Ro Khanna is a Democrat of California, co-author of the law that's forcing the release of the Epstein files. And he joins me now. First, let me ask about just the top line about like whether you can, they basically say we're done now. There's a whole batch of files you're never going to see. There's a bunch of redactions in these files that are very hard to make heads or tails of, even though those redactions are required by the law to be incredibly tailored and specific. Are they in compliance? I ask you as the co-author of the law. No, they're not. I mean, look, their release was significant and exposes the callowness, immaturity, and disgusting behavior of America's elite across the board from finance to tech to real estate. But imagine what they're still holding. And there are a number of avenues for us to get that. Thomas Massie and I are going to be meeting with Todd Blanche and Justice. to try to see what is in the unredacted files. Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on judiciary, is going to be doing the same. And then you have Judge Engelmeyer and Judge Berman, who have been pretty sympathetic to some of the survivors, and they may entertain lawsuits and motions from the survivors. Given the survivors have been at the sort of center of how you've talked about this, and I think that talking to them has really affected the way that you've gone about this, your reaction and their reaction to the fact that after saying that they were the reason for the delays. They're the reasons for the reactions, including images of people, including compromising or nude images of survivors. They're angry. They're livid. I mean, I've gotten phone calls from Bradley Edwards, the survivors' lawyers, detailing how heartbroken these survivors are. And Chris, this gets to why people feel there's two tracks of justice in America. On the one hand, the Justice Department said, you better make sure not to release certain names, you better make sure those are protected. On the other hand, they had about a third of the U.S. attorneys working on this, from what I'm told, you know, a lot of these U.S. attorneys weren't thrilled that they were assigned to the Epstein case, and they were just careless. I mean, there was no leadership saying, make sure that you contact the survivor's lawyers, make sure that we don't accidentally release some of the survivors' names. So you have a Justice Department that's leadership cared more about protecting the men who committed these crimes than the survivors who were victims of the crime.

This is the headline of our own reporting. The sloppy redactions and the Epstein documents are traumatizing survivors. And there's some interviews in that piece. Now, I want to talk about a document that was specifically called out in the law itself and has been released. And I think it's one of the most significant documents here. It is the draft indictment originally composed by federal prosecutors, line attorneys in the office of Alex Acosta in 2007. It has now been released. How significant that document is and what do you, what have you learned from it now finally being public? It was significant, but as you know, it was too heavily redacted. So the actual part of the legal analysis of why the charges were dropped are still in a black box. And what also was redacted were any of the co-conspirators and why they were not charged. So while they released this, I think, pro forma, because Thomas Massie and I kept saying release this document, released this document, they didn't release the actual legal analysis about why charges were dropped and they haven't revealed who the co-conspirators were. Sure. Reading through that document, what I am struck by is what a fork in the road that moment was. Because the indictment does lay out the scope of a systemic effort to recruit, exploit, and sexually abuse and traffic young women and girls. and to prey upon them. What ends up happening is that he pleased to a far lesser charge after the intervention of his lawyers, Alan Dershowich, Kenneth Starr and others, after that's worked out with Alex Acosta's office. And everything that happens subsequently, in some ways, is downstream of that missed accountability. And we still fundamentally, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't know why that happened. That's exactly right. I was redacted that why he was not charged, why he got a sweetheart deal. And what's important to understand is all these famous people who are corresponding with Epstein afterwards and saying, I want to come to Epstein's Island. That was in 95% of cases after they knew that he had been convicted of being a pedophile. Congressman Ro Khanna, we're going to have you back and stay on this. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Still to come as the Clinton's prepared to testify about the Epstein files, what that means for Donald Trump. Next. Optim RX is driving an industry-first transparency model. For planned sponsors, it means a model designed with easy to understand predictable pricing. For consumers, it's clearer experiences that bring cost transparency, affordability, and choice. Learn more at optum.com slash transparency. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for teens. Instagram teen accounts have built-in content settings and limits for who can contact teens. Plus, teens under 16 can't change these default safety settings without parental approval. So parents can help teens connect safely. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more at Instagram.com slash teen accounts.

Have you ever wanted to share your opinions with MS Now about our TV programs, podcasts, live events, and more? Now's your chance to have your voice heard. Join the MSNow Insights community at MS. Now slash insights. Today, Donald Trump was asked about Hillary and Bill Clinton setting dates to testify before Congress, and while you can tell he seems to be enjoying seeing them on the hot seat this time instead of him. I think it's a shame, to be honest. I always liked him. Her. Yeah. She's a very capable woman. I hate to see it in many ways. I hate to see it. But, you know, then I look at me. They went after me, like, you know, they wanted me to go to jail for the rest of my life. Then it turned out I was innocent, very innocent. You know, I had a friend that said, a very smart friend. He said, you have to be the most honest person anywhere in the world. Nick McCann-Ram Ramirez, politics for Rolling Stone. Christy Greenberg is a former deputy chief for the criminal division of the Southern District of New York. She's an MS now legal analyst. They join me now. Part of that was sarcasm by Trump, but I also think there's part of him this entire time, Marjorie Taylor Greene. said, reported this conversation she had with Trump about the Epstein files, like, my friends will be in it, of like, he is very touchy about the Epstein files and what's in there and whether it's going to come back on him or whether it's going to come back from people around him. Yeah, this has been, I think, the main reason the administration, Republicans in Congress have been dragging their feet on this, of course. It's been said many, many times that being mentioned in the Epstein files is not a direct indication of criminality. No. However, if your name... But it might reflect poorly on you. It might reflect poorly on you. And if your name comes up in evidence related to a large criminal conspiracy, it merits a little bit of scrutiny. It merits looking into why you were there, what the relationship was. And I think... Part of the issue here is that if we were in a normal government and normal situation, this evidence would probably be reviewed by a special counsel through the DOJ, but the problem here is that the DOJ has styled itself as Trump's personal law firm. So where do we actually go with this pile of evidence? Right. Particularly with, you know, and particularly when they like did all this sketchy stuff where they like put Clinton in the first drop on the Friday and they like put this like, you know, blacked out photo that was supposed to look like it was from Epstein's plane, but was from like some Washington head, you know, fundraiser where like Diana Ross was there. So like there's nothing you can trust about them. I also thought I heard something in his voice there about like. Does Donald Trump want there to be a precedent set that a former president can be compelled to come back to give testimony to Congress? Right. That's what he's worried about. He's not worried about the Clintons. I would note also that Trump's own chief of staff, Susie Wiles, said that she was familiar with what was in the Epstein files, and there was no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by Bill Clinton. If his own chief of staff is saying that, I would tend to believe she got...

the briefing of what was there. It certainly wouldn't be in her interest to say that. The other person who said the same thing was Ghislaine Maxwell when she sat down with Todd Blanche. Now, I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth, but she also said he didn't do anything so. Where is the wrongdoing? What is the reason that they want to speak to him versus the various other people that I would love to have testify about what is in the Epstein files and what we have not seen, the three million files that they're holding back? Well, particularly Alex Acosta, who of course was a cabinet secretary in the first Trump administration and the reason that this entire scandal reopened in the first place, who cut the sweetheart deal that allowed Jeffrey Epstein to go about... systematically preying on women and girls to the tune of like hundreds of people. Right. So I would prefer to hear from the line prosecutor in that case. There were some interesting documents in the Epstein files about her and how she had to defend herself against allegations of professional misconduct. from just trying to do her job. So I would love to hear from her about why she felt the case was so strong. I'd love to hear from the line prosecutors whose names are redacted in the files and the agents whose names are redacted in the files for reasons that don't quite make sense to me about why they were looking to bring the cases that they were looking to bring because it was not just. They had memos looking into other potential co-conspirators. Other than Maxwell, those didn't get brought. Why not? We don't have a full picture of that. Those are the people I would like to hear from. Speaking of line attorneys, sort of. remarkable news today from the Department of Justice. So one thing that's happening right now is the Department of Justice is being used as this kind of like blunt instrument weapon for Donald Trump, right, for his personal vendettas for all. But in so doing, they're destroying the Department of Justice. Both of those things are true. So here today, eight more federal prosecutors are leaving the U.S. Attorney's Office of Minnesota. There's some reporting they're down to less than 20 attorneys in an office usually has 50. Then this happens today, Nikki, and I want to hear both you talk about this. So... Julie Lee is an attorney who's been working on behalf of the U.S. attorney's office. She appeared in court to explain why ISIS repeatedly failed to comply with court orders during the ongoing immigration operation in Minnesota. I wish you would just hold me in contempt of court so I can get 24 hours of sleep. Lee said, to the judge in office. The system sucks. This job sucks. I am trying with every breath I have to get you what I need. People then went into PACER and looked up the fact that she has 88 federal cases that have been assigned to her in less than a month. I mean, they are.

destroying the Department of Justice before our eyes. Oh, absolutely. And it's not just attorneys leaving state attorney's office. It's not just people like leaving because they realize that at a certain point, if you remain in the DOJ, you were helping the administration break the law. It's... attorneys who were handling career-long cases that weren't available to the public because, again, a functional DOJ keeps a lot of things quiet until they make a finding in the public interest. I interviewed several former DOJ attorneys from the Department of Civil Rights who... saw cases involving abuse by law enforcement, voting rights, had entire dockets that disappeared overnight when Hartmeet Dillon took over. That was the division of the Justice Department that would have investigated a case like the shooting of Renee Good, like the killing of Alex Pready, the killing of both of those people. Those agencies have been completely destroyed and, again, are being made entirely subservient. to the whims of a DOJ that is now acting as Trump's personal law firm. But also kind of running out of people. I mean, there's a significant, there's like a kind of a strike situation basically happening, people voting with their feet. So one thing that's important to note, and this isn't necessarily the case in New York, but it is generally the case across the country and in places like Minnesota, that when you become an assistant United States attorney, that's generally a job for life. People don't leave those jobs. That is a dream job for people to have, and they don't. go. It's high prestige. It's important. It's interesting work. It's, I mean, it's a career. It's a career, right? Just like law enforcement, working for the FBI, these are people that look at that as a career. So when they retire, when they say they can't do this anymore, it really means something. That's significant. And when you look at why they are leaving, because you're being asked to investigate a shooting victim's widow. and look at the victims of these shootings as opposed to look at the agents who killed them and look at the people who are protesting when you look at the fact that, yes, now the DOJ has said we have a civil rights investigation that we're opening into the Alex Pretty case, but It's not going to be run by the civil rights lawyers, going to be run by FBI. And don't take away that it's going to be massive. Yet that's a sham. That's not what they're actually doing. So when people are leaving their jobs, it's for a reason because what this DOJ stands for is just abhorrent. Nikki McCann-Ramirez, Christy Kriamber. Great to have you both here. We'll be right back. One more thing before we go. My latest book, The Sirens Call, how attention became the world's most endangered resource, is now out in paperback. This Thursday, February 5th, I'll be talking about the book and the exploitation of both our and our kids' attention at the Strand bookstore right here in New York City. It's going to be moderated by renowned social psychologist and best-selling author Jonathan Haidt. His book, The Anxist Generation, has played this crucial role in absolutely transforming...

educators' phone policies across the country in school after school. So if you're around, please come. I love these events because I get to meet all of you, and I hope to see you there. That does it for All In. You can catch us every weeknight at 8 o'clock on MS now. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's facebook.com slash all on with Chris. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect tire. Skills first hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.