‘They’re losing ground’: Bernie says Trump in a ‘panic’ as Iran war spirals

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Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. You know, every once in a while, you just have to remind yourself that the president of the United States is a sociopath. Or, at the very least, being charitable here, he just can't help himself from acting like one. And that's particularly relevant right now as the man is directing the military might of this nation in yet another war in the Middle East. And that is not going well. The state of American leadership, as the U.S.-Israeli war against Iran, nears the end of its third week, is bad, with no signs of it ending soon. According to Reuters, more than 2,000 people have been killed across the 14 countries. 14 countries now affected. That includes, of course, 13 U.S. service members who've died with at least another 200 wounded. But in the Oval Office today, Donald Trump told everyone he thinks everything is going just great. It's going to be over with pretty soon. We've obliterated the Navy. We've obliterated there just about everything there is to obliterate, including leadership. The Navy's gone, their Air Force is gone, their anti-aircraft equipment is gone. We're flying wherever we want, Pete. We have nobody even shooting at us. We have nobody shooting at us. He sat in front of the press corps and said that while the Iranian military released footage at claims shows a U.S. F-35 fighter being... hit over Iran. We've not confirmed the video, though a short time later, a military spokesperson confirmed that an F-35 made an emergency landing at an American air base in the Middle East after flying a combat mission over Iran today. Donald Trump is doing what he usually does. Remember, we saw this during COVID. lying about the situation, spinning madly, oscillating, running all over the place telling one lie after another as oil prices shoot up and the cost of gas surges across the country. And Trump repeats what is quickly becoming this entire administration's line about this debacle. Hey, it could be worse. Everything was going great. The economy is great. Oil prices were very low. Gasoline was dropping to, I mean, we had $1.99, $1.85. We had great everything. And I saw all was happening in Iran and I said, I hate to make this excursion, but we're going to have to do it. And I actually thought the numbers would be worse. I thought that it would go up more than it did. Just to be clear, the glass prices are not true. The economy was in weird position before this all started. By most accounts, things don't seem to be going great right now. And Donald Trump's sociopathic behavior has inability to show any tact. or decency, or just appreciation that there's other human beings in the room with him who also have inner lies, emotions, right? It was on full display as he hosted the Prime Minister of Japan and the Oval Office today and gave this genuinely shocking answer to a Japanese reporter's perfectly legitimate question about coordination or lack thereof with allies during this war. Why didn't you tell U.S. allies in Europe and Asia like Japan about the war before attacking Iran? So we are very confused about Japanese systems. Well, one thing you don't want to signal too much. You know, when we go in, we went in very hard, and we didn't tell anybody about it because we wanted surprise. Who knows better about surprise than Japan? Okay? Why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor, okay?

Right? He said, yes could be, do you believe in surprise, I think much more so than us? The President of the United States, snapping in a man who certainly was not alive when Pearl Harbor occurred, asking why Japan did not warn the United States about the 1941 attack, all while the Prime Minister of Japan sat there. Never mind, the question was about why the U.S. did not notify its allies, its trusted allies before striking Iran. Seems pretty evident how uncomfortable the Japanese prime minister is as she sits there listing the American president, say, quote, who knows better about surprise in Japan? You believe in surprise, I think, much more so than us. Equating all Japanese people with every generation with the decision of a government that was defeated before Donald Trump was even born. But that's kind of his thing, right? That's the fundamental problem in all this. That's who it is. That person. That guy. That's the guy. That's the person managing the war who has. this unfathable power over life and death. That guy is going to decide who lives and who dies. He's arguably the most powerful person in the world. Seems to be a flat-out sociopath and a narcissist. And if that gross, weird, awful answer about surprise attacks was not bad enough, he then went on to even hint about nuclear weapons, something he has done on multiple occasions now. The military equipment, the power of some of this weaponry is unthinkable. You don't even want to know about it. Oh, you could end this thing in two seconds if you wanted to, but we are being very judicious. Japan, of course, the only country on Earth, the only one that has ever had firsthand experience with the horrors of an atomic weapon, twice from us, from our country, in which people's flesh was melted off their bones and children were incinerated instantly and thousands suffered from elevated cancer rates for an entire generation. And Donald Trump sitting there kind of in quink nudge nudge, hinting at nukes while the Prime Minister Japan is sitting right next to him. I know this is a cliche, and we say it a lot, but it's also true. The guy has the nuclear codes. He literally does. They're in that room with him right there. And to be honest, for the last 11 years, I have gone to work every day into this studio trying to find new ways to basically say the same thing about this guy. About how just wildly dangerous it is to have a likely sociopath as the most powerful person in the world leading this country at this point into this war of choice with no end in sight, putting Americans and people all over the world in danger. Killing people. He's going to decide who lives and dies. That guy. Not to mention tanking the global economy and then lying about it every day. And I got another example of this from a few days ago, which is not related to the war or the economy, but illustrates the same point. It illustrates Donald Trump's just like stone cold, bone-deep inability to even conceive of the feelings and their lives of the people around him. On Monday, he had this insane back and forth with House Speaker Mike Johnson. You might have seen this, you might have not. Many, including New York Times Opin College, Jamal Bowie highlighted it, where Trump just gleefully revealed in front of the cameras a Republican congressman's terminal medical condition. Just listen to this.

Death is very bad when you're the speaker, and you have a majority of two or three. But we had a death, and then we had another death, and we had some things, but we're looking very strong. We had one man who was very ill. It looked like he wasn't going to make it. I don't know. I won't mention his name. Should I? Do other people know his name? Do you want to mention it? He'll be proud. Go ahead. Tell them this story. Okay. Well, thank you, Mr. President. Congressman Neil Dunn of Florida had had some real health challenges, and it was very serious, and had had a pretty grim diagnosis. And I mentioned it to the president, and I said, Congressman Donne is a real champion and a patriot because he's still coming to work. And if others got this diagnosis, they would be apt to go home and retire. What was the diagnosis? It was, I mean, I think it was a terminal diagnosis. He would be dead by June. Okay, that wasn't public. But yeah, okay. It was grim. That's what I was going to say. With a heart problem, by the way. This was a heart problem. So, long story short, the president called him to encourage him and thank him, and they had a conversation. Have you ever seen anything like that in your life? You see how excited he is to tell the story, smiling, slapping Mike Johnson's back? Because telling the story of this man's impending death brings glory to him. Right? The point for Trump is that the guy is so loyal to them that even as he faces down his own demise, he is coming to work for Donald Trump. And so he pushes the speaker to tell the story. And Mike Johnson, who, in my estimation, is a man of incredibly low character with terrible politics, but is not a sociopath, is trying to hold some kind of line. And as Trump interjects, you can hear the gasp in the room for the people who are all certainly Trump supporters. There's one other moment about that moment that really drives home Trump's full lack of empathy, because right next to him is his chief of staff, Susie Wiles. And less than an hour before Trump pushed Johnson to reveal his colleague's terminal diagnosis, Susie Wiles revealed her own breast cancer diagnosis. Trump even posts about it on social media, so he knew. Luckily, her prognosis is good. It's not at all in the same category as the congressman they're discussing. But there he was, exclaiming. He would be dead by June, then turning and smiling obliviously at his chief of staff, battling her own serious health issues. That's the guy. That's the person. That's the one. That's the character of the man in control of the full U.S. military arsenal up to an including the nuclear coat. The man who makes arguably the highest stakes decisions for Americans. It's just, it's wildly dangerous to have a sociopath be the most powerful person in the world. How could anyone watching this think that any of this could go right? I'm joined now by Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who serves on the Veterans Affairs Committee, and just today filed three joint resolutions of disapproval to force an end to the war in Iran. I want to start on the Veterans Affairs Committee that you served on, and I know you've been incredibly active in veterans' issues throughout the duration of your career. And one of the things that I think anyone who's worked with veterans and around veterans knows is the sort of the gravity, the solemnity, the stakes of war, of what it means, what it means to send people to war, what it means to be shooting at people and possibly causing their death and what that can mean to the people that do it. And I just wonder your reaction to see the glibness, the weird casualness, the strangeness of the way this president seems to...

undertake this entire enterprise. Look, we are living, as I think most people know, with the president who is a pathological liar. He is an authoritarian. What concerns most is wealth and power. I think he has very little empathy for his fellow human beings. And you're quite right. It is extremely dangerous that a man like that is president of the United States. And Chris, what we have got to do, I mean, is figure out why that happened and how we build a political movement of working people that ends Trumpism once and for all, starting in 2026. You, as I mentioned, there were three resolutions introduced today to try to force votes that would restrain the war both in terms of the U.S. war on Iran, arms sales to Israel as well. What are those resolutions? Is there any hope of success, were the war to drag on? Is there hope of success? I would like to think so. I wouldn't bet the farm on it. You got a lot of people here in Congress who are under the thumb of APAC and other special interests. The bottom line is that to give another 20,000 bombs to a country which committed genocide in Gaza happens to be, among many other things, forget the moral issue. happens to be a violation of American law. You don't sell arms, according to American law, the countries that violate international law and human rights. Clearly, Israel has done that. Israel talked Benjamin Netanyahu, who for 40 years, has wanted a war with Iran, finally got a president to go along with him, started this war, and it's not only the horror that's taking place in Iran right now, something like 15% of million people in Lebanon have been displaced. Israel is moving aggressively in the West Bank, killing people, displacing people, making the idea of a two-state solution virtually impossible. why anybody in their right minds would want to continue funding Israel is beyond me. It's not just, of course, funding Israel, which is a partner in this war. And I should note the International Court of Justice has allowed for that international law case of accusing them a genocide to go forward, though there has not been a determination on that. But there's also, of course, the U.S. spending, the word today that it's going to be a $200 billion, $200 billion war supplemental request coming from the White House to the Senate. I got to say, and maybe I'm a cock-eyed optimist.

I think that's going to be a tough vote for them to win, but maybe I'm crazy. Look, this is, Chris, on top of a $1 trillion appropriation. They want another $200 billion. You got people all over this country, 20% of households spending 50% of their income on housing. People can't afford health care. People can't afford childcare. And this guy, in addition to giving tax breaks the billionaires, now wants to spend another $200 billion on a war that should never have been fought. So I think, you know, clearly, I think the Trump people are in a bit of panic. They're losing ground. Gas prices are soaring. There is massive discontent against this war. It's got to end, and we've got to make sure that Trump is neutered in 2026. There was some news today. I've been watching you. You've been spending more and more time talking about AI and talking about what it might do, the American economy. There was news today that caught my eye, and I think it caught yours as well, which is Jeff Bezos, who's one of the richest men in the world. He's worth $234 billion. Is planning both to kind of use robots to replace... you know, maybe thousands, hundreds of thousands of Amazon workers. But he's also now going to raise a fund that is going to be investing in the automation and replacement of manufacturing workers in all sorts of industries everywhere. This seems like, I don't know, maybe not a great idea given the way that what we've seen happening to America's Manufacturing Corps. But I guess I'd say it's a private decision in a private market. What can you do? Well, there's a lot that we can do. I mean, for a thought, we may be wanting to be talking about attacks on robots. But for a start, what we are seeing now is a handful of the wealthiest people in the world, Jeff Bezos being one, Moss, Mark Zuckerberg, Ellison, pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the development and implementation of AI and robotics. And what is the goal? The goal obviously is to make money for corporations and themselves and to replace human labor. And now Jeff Bezos is upfront about it. Hey, we can automate, put robots in manufacturing plants all over America, throw workers out on the street. We can make these companies have more and more money and more profits. The only thing that maybe Jeff Bezos hasn't considered. is if you create mass unemployment, if people are not earning any money, how the hell are they going to buy anything? What happens to the economy? And I think there is more and more concern about the impact of AI and robotics being pushed again by people who have endless amounts of greed. That's all these guys want more wealth and more power for themselves. But Jeff Bezos hasn't been late. We're going to throw workers out on the street, and we're going to make more money for manufacturing companies. I mean, send gas to $5 a gallon and take away everyone's jobs for automation. And I mean, good luck. I don't know what exactly people think the game plan is here. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up, as Trump's quagmire grows, his own cabinet is having a lot of trouble just explaining the plan. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me on what his party is doing to fight back. It's next. Monday AI agents took over my work.

And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, Why Is This Happening, the explosive and unsettling rise of prediction markets? I think legally the Supreme Court is going to ultimately decide how these things should be regulated. If there's a Democratic administration after Trump, I do think they're going to crack down. But you can see Kalshi already trying to get ahead of that by staffing up with former Biden people, with former Democratic senators as a way of sort of signaling to the world. We're not just a Trump thing. The Trump family loves us. But look at all of our Democratic lobbyists. So they are. definitely staffing up and readying for that fight. That's this week on why is this happening. Search for why is this happening, wherever we're listening right now and a follow. Today, Tulsi Gabbard appeared again before Congress this time in the House, where she was asked about how this were of choice on Iran ends and about the divergent objectives of the two countries that are currently waging this war. Here's how she answered. What does the intelligence community assess Israel's goals in this war to be? And are those goals aligned with the goals of the United States? I'm thinking carefully here about what can be said in this open setting versus a closed setting. Are the goals aligned? The objectives that have been laid out by the president are different from the objectives that have been laid out by the Israeli government. And how do they differ? We can see through the operations that the Israeli government has been focused on disabling the Iranian leadership. It went on like that for minutes after that. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries in New York is the House Democratic leader, and he joins me now. Do you feel that you have a strong understanding of even what the U.S. objectives are? Tulsi Gabbard said today that the president has been clear about what the objectives are. They differ from what Israel's are, and she sort of sputtered a little bit in trying to describe that tension. But are you even clear what our objectives are? It's a great question, Chris, and the administration has articulated shifting objectives. One day, it's regime change. The next day, it's about stopping Iran's nuclear aspirations, even though the president claimed several months ago that Iran's nuclear program had been completely and totally obliterated. Day after that, it was about, well, stepping in to protect... Iranian civilians to try to push back against the Iranian regime. Then the day after that, they'll say it's about intercontinental ballistic missiles where there's no evidence that Iran actually has missiles that could strike the United States. Then they have a broad claim saying that it was about...

an imminent threat to the United States of America, and their own former national security professionals acknowledged that there was no imminent threat to America. This is the reason why, Chris, amongst many others, that the war is so deeply unpopular, because the American people understand there's no justification for it. It's a reckless war of choice, and billions of dollars are being spent to drop bombs in the Middle East, while this administration can't find a dime to actually make health care more affordable for the American people. Speaking of those billion dollars, today we got this headline. The Pentagon is going to try to get $200 billion in a budget request for the Iran war. CNN reporting there are some cracks emerging in the GOP over the Iran war cost, a little bit of dissent from some members in Congress about that price tag. I'm imagining you're a no on this, but the question is, are you confident you can hold an entire Democratic caucus together in the House and get full unanimity in a no for that $200 billion supplemental. Yeah, we'll have to have that conversation, but as your suspicions suggest, Chris, it would be my expectation that there is strong democratic opposition against the notion of continuing to pour billions of dollars of additional money into a war with no justification, no plan, no strategy, and no clear indication as to how to get out of it. when there was no rationale to get into it in the first place. And in fact, Donald Trump said as candidate Trump that he was not going to get us into a reckless war of choice in the Middle East. And then President Trump got us into a reckless war of choice in the Middle East, wasting billions of dollars of taxpayer money. And the notion of them coming to Congress asking for $200 billion more is so beyond the pale that I... I've got to hope that these reports are inaccurate. There was a war powers vote, I think, a few weeks ago, in which Democrats, all but I think five, I want to say on the whip count, voted to force basically a restraint, a resolution, right? It would have forced a vote where Congress would have had to okay the action. My understanding, a red reporting, was that leadership whipped that vote. You whip that vote, Speaker Meredith, Nancy Pelosi, others, right? This was an important vote. Are you committed to whipping a vote on the supplemental if in fact they come to you for $200 million and really making this a priority for leadership? Well, you know, I don't want to get out ahead of whip Catherine Clark because those are conversations that we have. But needless to say, clearly there's deep skepticism that I've publicly articulated and other members of leadership have publicly articulated, including the top Democrat on Appropriations Committee, Rosa DeLauro. But we'll have that conversation when we need to have that conversation. What I can say is that it's my expectation that we'll have another.

war powers resolution vote sooner rather than later, potentially as early as next week. And we're going to try to get to uniform Democratic support and get a handful of Republicans to join us so we can stop this reckless war of choice so that we don't even have to deal with the possibility of considering some kind of requests for $200 billion in additional taxpayer money, who, as Bernie Sanders said, So much can be done with that to actually make life better for the American people in health care and nutritional assistance and housing and in other areas. Well, I have to say, you know, everyone's forgotten about the weird doge months in Washington when the president came in and Elon Musk set loose a bunch of 20-somethings with AI to go fire a bunch of folks. But I like talk to like a park ranger that made $48,000 a year that lost their job. There are people that worked with veterans who lost their job. There are people that work at food safety that lost their job. We cut off emergency nutrition to some of the poorest, most starving people in the world. I mean, like, what is it, what does it say to you to think that you're going to spend $200 billion from war after going through all that? I mean, it's such an extraordinarily out of pocket request, out of bounds, out of control. I mean, the extremists just continue to show the American people who they are. The same group of people. who enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history, literally ripped health care away from 14 million Americans, and in that same one big, ugly bill, enacted the largest cut to nutritional assistance. They took $186 billion away from hungry children, veterans, and seniors in America to give ICE a $75 billion slush fund to brutalize and kill American citizens, to give their billionaire donors a massive tax break, and now they want to come back to the taxpayers for an additional $200 billion for a reckless war of... choice. The whole thing is so extreme, so extraordinary in its request that, you know, you would think if it was being written by a Hollywood screenwriter, this is not reality. But unfortunately, this is the national nightmare that we're living through right now in Trump's America. And we're going to do everything we need to do to get through it, starting by winning the midterm elections in November. I will note that $186 billion for supplemental nutritional assistance is over that 10-year rated budget window. So that's like 18.6 a year. We're talking like 200 just right here is what they're sort of throwing around right now. That's the starting bit here, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Thank you very much. Thank you. Still ahead, Donald Trump drives up gas prices for every American, and man, is it going to get worse and worse every day? Dan Dicker on what's going on the oil market, which is having a hell of a time. That's next. Monday AI agents took over my work.

And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, Why Is This Happening, the explosive and unsettling rise of prediction markets? I think legally the Supreme Court is going to ultimately decide how these things should be regulated. If there's a Democratic administration after Trump, I do think they're going to crack down. But you can see Kalshi already trying to get ahead of that by staffing up with former Biden people, with former Democratic senators, as a way of sort of signaling to the world. We're not just a Trump thing. The Trump family loves us. But look at all of our Democratic lobbyists. definitely staffing up and readying for that fight. That's this week on why is this happening. Search for why is this happening, wherever we're listening right now and a follow. The thing about war is that it takes five seconds to destroy something that takes years and years to build. Yesterday, Israel struck a major gas field in Iran, both Axios and the Wall Street Journal cited U.S. officials who say the U.S. was aware of the operation. Trump then later denied that, but... And then Iran struck back because that's the way the escalation ladder works. They hit a massive liquid natural gas field in Qatar, cutting about 20% of its output. In fact, the CEO, the company came out today and said production to the facility will be sidelined for three to five years. Iran also targeted refineries in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE. Then Trump promptly freaked out. As I think it dawned on him, this escalation is going to drive oil and gas prices up. He insisted, again, despite reporting the contrary, he had no idea Israel was going to strike Iran's gas field. He demanded Israel refrain from future attacks, and it seems as though Benjamin Netanyahu got the message. President Trump said today he did not like the Israeli strike on the Iranian gas fields. My question to you, was the president aware of Israel striking that gas field? Did you approve it? Well, I'll say two things. Fact number one, Israel acted alone against the Slovia gas compound. Fact number two, President Trump asks us to hold off on future attacks, and we're holding on. Yeah, to state the obvious, Israel and Iran going scorched earth on the regional energy infrastructure could cause a genuine global catastrophe. Dan Dicker's an oil trader, founder of the Energy Word newsletter, and he joins me now. Dan, I want to start just on the sort of the physical infrastructure here. There's this Rass Laffin complex in Qatar. It's, I guess it was, it's the Iranian oil field was also part Qatari. There's the Raphael Warnock Laf and they're like, how important. Is this physical infrastructure? Very important. I mean, the Europeans, for example, depend to a large degree on LNG supplies. In fact, they're going to be entering the summer, the late spring summer stockpiling season where they make, you know, they start to.

develop natural gas resources for the wintertime, obviously because they've had some trouble with Russian supplies that they can no longer count on. And in previous years, they've been able to find other sources of gas, sometimes from Qatar and sometimes from UAE is a tremendous exporter. Australia has in Indonesia been big exporters, VLNG? They're going to have a really tough time and bodes already bodes for very, very difficult European winter coming in 2627. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing about all this. you start getting to this physical supplies, there's these time scales, right? Like, it takes four weeks for the ownership. Energy works in, you know, it all gets scheduled months in advance. So what we're... talking about exactly right now that we've been in this war for exactly three weeks, exactly the time it takes for these VLCC. I'm sorry, for these big oil tankers to get from Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Iran over to Japan, to China, to India. It's about three weeks. So what we had was we had a pipeline that was filled to the brim with oil, ready to go to refineries, to turn into gas, to turn into jet fuel, to turn into other products. And now, just now, that's running out. This is where the rubber is really going to start to meet world with a futures market that I trade meets what is the reality, which is the physical amount of supply that's going to meet a physical demand that's going on right now. And that's why we've seen, for example, today, the European crude oil price spike tremendously while the U.S. price... basically stayed the same. What it's saying to you is that right now we're moving from what is a futures market, a trading market, into a physical market. And this is where the prices are really going to start to take off. Trump is kind of right. You know, when he says, I thought it was going to be worse. I actually thought it was going to be worse, too. Yeah. But this is the point where the actual physical shortage meets what the demand is going on right now. And that's because of that. So you've got, you know, And every day, the other thing is that the supply gets, I mean, you've got the Strait of Hormuz cut off, right? Right. But as you're hitting these different facilities, refining capacity, LNG exports. Like, you know, Iran's attack wiped out 17% of cutters capacity for five years. About 20%. Right. Right. You know, as the sort of physical supply starts to happen, I'm seeing more and more people in this industry warn things are about to go vertical. I'm one of those. I really believe that this is the point where, you know, all of this taco trade idea where the... Explain what that is. Well, the psychological idea, if you were talking about something like tariffs, for example, is that you put on attacks, you put on tremendous tariffs, and it... works on consumers because they can't, they have to spend more for certain products. Right. And then that translates into worse results for corporate quarterly earnings. Right. And then the stock market gets hit. But that takes months and months and months to work through the system. Right. And what the traders do is they kind of force themselves ahead of that by saying, oh, if it stays like this, if Trump doesn't get rid of these tariffs, then four months down the road, the stock market's going to legitimately go down. But I'm going to get out before that happens.

Or I'm not going to get out because I think he's going to chicken out on the train. But with oil right now, there's no taco anymore. There's a real physical problem that is right now hitting. It's worked its way through the system. There's no more supply in the pipeline or there's 20% less supply in the pipeline. And that's going to translate instantly and quickly into these spiking prices, starting in Europe like it started today. But they're not going to stay there. No, it can't stay there. That's the point. going to come to the United States, but it's going to come later. Part of the other physical aspect of this I've been thinking of as Brent Crude was briefly top 119 per barrel, then it fell. One of the things I think people don't understand is the stuff's always got to move. So like it flows out of the well. Then it's got to go somewhere. You can't, and you can't, if you don't have a place to ship it, you can't get it out of the ground. If you can't get out of the ground, you got to turn off wells. And turning off a well is not a light switch in your house. That is a huge deal to get it off and then to get it back on. Exactly. And there were two huge operations in Saudi Arabia that were turned off recently because there's just no place to put it. Right. No place to ship it. They can't bring it out and they can't put it on the ships to the straight. There's no place to put it. They've shut them down. When you shut them down again... It's not like you can't get them back open, but it's also not so easy as like, boom, tomorrow we put it back on. It'll take months, again, but that's the least. That's crazy. It is, but it's the least of the problems we're dealing with right now. Remember, and I'm trying to take a 20,000-foot view of all this, because the losers in all this are some of the people that are most important to us, the United States. And there's one country that's been a tremendous winner. Can you name the country who's been a tremendous winner? Russia. And it's always like, and they've always screamed to us, you know, how paranoid we are about this Russia, Russia. Russia, Russia thing. And yet every time we turn around, everything that Trump does ultimately benefits Russia. But I'll do you one better. They took the sanctions. They're giving Russia sanctions exemptions. Right. Because they need the Russian oils. The Russians are now selling oil to the Indians, which they couldn't sell before. The next step, though, is this is the headline. This is incredible. Yes. They're considering lifting sanctions on Iran. Iranian oil. Exactly. I was like, I read that. I was like, I started running around my room. I give up. Try. Try to figure this out. What is the objective here? What the heck is going on? So we've got you so bad. We're going to bomb you so much that we're going to now have to release the sanctions that we've had before Obama. For decades. For decades. So that we can supply some more oil into where, into a strait that they've blocked. It's so fascinatingly crazy. Dan Dicker, I'm sure we'll see you again soon. We'll see where this goes. Still to come. The more we learn about Jeffrey Epstein, the more questions there are. Investigated journalist Julie K. Brown has been covering this now for over a decade. Joins me next. So last night, we told you about how House Oversight Democrats investigating the Epstein files walked out of a strange last-minute fake hearing with Attorney General Pam Bondi. Today, the committee was back together for a real deposition, this of a lawyer for the deceased child sex trafficker, who was also a co-executor of the Epstein estate. And in his opening statement, Darren Indyke, told committee members that despite working for Epstein for two decades, he had no knowledge, that's what he says, of Epstein's wrongdoing.

For now, the committee's moving forward plans to depose Pam Bondi for real next month, despite what happened yesterday. Meanwhile, the White House continues to play defense. They sent Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche to do a hard-hitting interview on the podcast hosted by Stephen Miller's wife, Katie, and he didn't even get out of their unscathed. Do you think the investigators covered it up? Given how many victims there are, surely, I mean, there should be more prosecutions and more charges than there are. Well, look, the Epstein files are available for everybody to see. So it's not, so do I think there was a cover-up? No, I don't, but it's not just up to me. Everybody that's watching this, everybody that, the Epstein Transparency Act has now allowed us to release the entire Epstein files. There's still 3 million help back, though. Not all of them are public. No, they're all public. Julie Kay Brown has been covering the Epstein story for years as an investigative journalist for the Miami Herald. It was her reporting that reignited interest in the Epstein case prior to his federal indictment. She's author of the book of, she's the author of the series and book, Perversion of Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein story, and she joins me now. First, Julie, let me just get your reaction to the last thing that the Deputy Attorney General just said there right now, that they're all public, that there aren't three million being held back. That conflicts with my understanding. Does it conflict with yours? Yes, and apparently it did with the podcast hosts, who I'm not familiar with, but good for her for pointing this out to him, that we're still missing a lot of files. Not only that, but he also mentioned, well, this isn't really our job, you know, as if the public is supposed to review this and that's somehow our job. No, he's with the DOJ. He's the deputy attorney general. It is their job to look at these files and it is their job to look at maybe what they missed that they should pursue at this point. There was a deposition today of the co-executor of Epstein's will. There was a co-executor who had also already been deposed. Do you think that's a fruitful person to be going to as this committee investigates the aftermath of Epstein? Well, I think anybody that they call right now, almost anybody, is probably worth talking to. But the question is, are they really getting anywhere with these people? I know that some of the lawmakers, Democratic lawmakers had mentioned that they thought that they got some information from them. So hopefully it will lead them to more threads or more leads that they can pursue or that the oversight committee can look at. But certainly it's not very. plausible that he did not know anything that Epstein was doing, especially since Epstein pled guilty in 2008 to solicitation. And of course, over the years, a lot more information came out that he had molested hundreds and hundreds of girls. So it's really not plausible while he's making arrangements for payments to these women and girls.

It's just not plausible that he wouldn't have suspected that something was wrong. One of the people that are going to be deposed is one of the guards who worked at the detention center administered by the Department of Justice Bureau of Prisons on the night that Jeffrey Epstein died. And I've got to say, I've always from the evidence I've seen, from what I've read, thought that he most likely did commit suicide, as officials have said. I know that, and I've seen you say that you have some real doubts about that. And given the fact that the committee clearly seems to have some doubts that there's no other reason to depose the prison guard that night, I'd like to hear what you think and why maybe I should not be so certain that the, what happened is what they say happened. Well, look, what I'm seeing, and trust me, I'm in these files all day, every day, even on weekends, is that once the determination was made, first by then Attorney General Bill Barr, and then, of course, by the medical examiner that Epstein died by suicide. it was sort of like, that's it. You know, now we are moving on from here. So anything else that they found out that was perhaps even suspicious wasn't treated as though it would be part of a potential. you know, suspicious death investigation. They never treated this like you would a normal suspicious death. And let's face it, they found him laying in his cell a week or so before this. And the first thing he said was my cellmate tried to kill me and he had been extorting me. That was the first thing he said. He never admitted that he tried to commit suicide. It was somehow just assumed because even that was not really thoroughly investigated. So. Let's just say for no other reason, you have this second suspicious incident where he's found dead without a cellmate, which he was supposed to have a cellmate. By the way, two of the guards were surfing on their computers and falling asleep. Oh, yeah, by the way, the computers, the video surveillance cameras weren't working. They didn't do any checks. I mean, I can go on and on and on. I mean, it just lacks, you know, credulous. It's just not credible that there was something wrong here. The other person who there has been a lot of talk about is an individual named Leon Black, who is very, very present in the files. He is the former CEO of Apollo Global Management. He was a friend and associate of Jeffrey Epstein.

I've seen, I think, Ron Wyden perhaps, members of Congress say that there will be news about him. What have you been learning about Mr. Black from the files? I don't think I've been learning a whole lot, and I think that's part of the problem. I think that, you know, of course, there's new information in there that he was listed as co-conspirator, and we know that there had been several complaints against him in court, alleging that he sexually abused one woman, young girl, actually, at the time. As a minor, he, of course, has denied all these charges, allegations that are unproven. But what they have also found, as Senator Ron Wyden has explained, is that they've found, you know, millions of dollars of payments that he made to Epstein, essentially for tax and estate advice. Now, Epstein wasn't an accountant. He wasn't an estate planner. It just doesn't, again, another thing that doesn't make sense. And Senator Ron Wyden, to his credit, has been trying for years, even under the Biden administration. to try to pursue these financial records. And he hasn't been successful largely right now because the GOP is blocking him. All right. Julie Brown, who, like you said, lives in these files these days and has been living this story now for many years. I appreciate you taking some time with us tonight. Thank you. Stay tuned. In just a few minutes, Jen Saki, we'll be speaking with Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff. I'm going to want to hear that. We'll be right back.

That does it for All In. You can catch us every weeknight at 8 o'clock on MS Now. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's Facebook.com slash all on with Chris. Now you can watch Ali Valshi five nights a week in prime time on MS now as he takes command of the 11th hour. The breaking news in the last hour. The 11th hour with Ali Valshie. Week nights at 11 p.m. Eastern on MS now.