Exclusive: Kash Patel summoned to White House over behavior, ‘gold plated’ tweet

He did. In fact, according to our reporting and our sources, he was basically commandeered back to the White House with plans to spend all of the day there. You know, Chris, when we first started this reporting, We were looking at, you know, confirming corroborating reports that he was scheduled to go to Chicago to visit his girlfriend. It's become a familiar pattern that he takes his jet to go see his girlfriend perform at various events. And this time it was at a street country music street festival in Chicago, which is hosted in the parking lot of a large... Chicago Stadium. He was going to go to that event. He had, according to sources, scheduled a office visit, a field office visit in Chicago, which FBI agents found really insulting. They felt like that was just a cover for him to be able to go see his girlfriend without any, you know, annoying questions from reporters. That's how we started our day of reporting. But then we learned from our sources that on the Kash Patel was in a panic. He had to cancel the trip. He had to get to the White House stat because he was being ordered to come back basically to the principal's office. to answer some questions and do some work. And there were a number of reasons. I have to tell you, I wish I knew precisely which one was the most important. And we don't know that yet, Chris. But you can imagine the three that you listed, right? We're at war with Iran. Iran tries to kill the president by recruiting people in the United States to kill him here. Number two, he tweeted a very strange thing at MS now. about calling one of our columnists a dumbass and bragging about a jet ski that was gold-plated. And then third, the reason that we've heard is that, you know, one of Trump's most important and reliable allies in the Senate, Republican Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley. is now frustrated with Kash Patel and trying to get answers to questions about the expenses of his travel to Milan, why he purchased BMWs that were armor-plated so that he can more discreetly get around town. These are some of the reasons that have been cited to us about why the White House is kind of up to here with Kash Patel and wanted him back at headquarters. I just have to mention the irony here, which is that the White House loves to talk about fake news and all this stuff, but they actually know the reporting is solid and good and also respond to the reporting. You don't have to say that I'm going to say that, but just to be clear here, right? I just want to note, just to fill out the details here, Alexis Wilkins is his girlfriend's name. She'll be performing at the Windy City Smokeout in Chicago, Illinois, in the parking lot of United Center. I have to say a musical festival outdoors in Chicago in the summer is basically as good as it gets.

You can hardly blame a guy for wanting to go. And I also got to say, all of the things considered, he does seem to be a good boyfriend. But this is what Stephen Chung had to say about the reporting. And it's notable. So I'm going to read it to you. He issued a statement without responding to specific questions about Kash Patel's counsel trip. He said under President Trump and Director Kash Patel's leadership of the FBI, crime across the country has plummeted to the lowest level more than 100 years. That, by the way, is debatable, although it has gone down. And many high-profile criminals have been put behind bars. I suppose that's true, although a lot of others have been pardoned. Director Kash Patel remains a critical player of the administration's law and order team. Notable here, there's not any like denials, not any fake news, not any name calling. No, that's true. They reserved that for X, where they come after us for some of our reporting. Chris, we feel very solid about this. And for lots of reasons, some of which you've alluded to, I am just, I want to say hats off to the MS Now team that jumped into this breach when we began this morning thinking we had one story and then we had a very different one. And then we had, you know, really moving. target in terms of a potentially really huge story. The White House angry at Kash Patel, and it's not the first time, a trip canceled on the tarmac, a big deal. Yeah, but I really just really value the colleagues on this byline. Jackie Alamani, Jake Trailer, Kendallanian, Vaughn Hilliard. I mean, none of this would be possible without them, and thanks to all of them. Let me just reiterate one more thing because you said at the top, but I just want to come back to it because it is just when you think about it, you know, you've got this reporting. He obviously is under scrutiny for these trips. He's obviously under scrutiny for flying the plane and reporting in which, again, I'm going to quote, this is actually from a letter to Kash Patel by Jamie Raskin Center Dick Durbin that says a credible source relayed. You told field offices in a meeting last year. If you have golf hockey fishing or hunting in beautiful sites, you're going to see a lot of me, not really hiding the ball there. After this reporting, he's sitting on the tarmac to go to Chicago, which just happens to be the city that his girlfriend is performing at a musical festival and has arranged a visit to the Chicago field offices. Like, it feels like he's doing the thing, right? The whole reporting you had yesterday is like he comes up with these sort of ostensible cover stories for travel so that he can go and hang out. And now here he is sitting on the tarmac this morning, bound for Chicago for ostensibly a visit to the field office. Yes. And, you know, this is kind of what got him into such hot water with Trump the last time. I mean, we have this reporting from a while ago now, Chris, but just to underline it for your viewers, who I know are paying close attention to you and what you have to say, let me just repeat. In February, when we reported that Kash Patel was on the tarmac about to leave for Milan. and that FBI agents internally said he was going because he wanted to see the men's ice hockey team play in the Olympics. We were told by the FBI, oh, no, no, no, it's a business trip. And we got all this pieces of paper essentially that said he's got this meeting, he's got that meeting, he's got all this security stuff he's working on, he's got a diplomatic meeting. And later on, we learned from FBI sources that, no, all of those.

were arranged as cover for him to go see the men's ice hockey team play Olympics, which play at the Olympics, which they won. Amazing. I'm sure a lot of people would have liked to be there. But Kash Patel could not say, honestly, that he went because he wanted to see the men's ice hockey team play in the Olympics. That is not something he could apparently deign to say. Right. But yet, that's what all the records show. This pattern, I'm really glad you flag the tarmac moment because. He's getting a letter from a huge Trump ally saying, can you please answer my questions about your travel and why it's justified. And then he's heading to Chicago to go see his girlfriend play, which is perform, which is one of the things he got in trouble with Trump with before. The hockey was like kind of almost the last straw for Donald Trump. You know, he really confronted Kash Patel and said, It's not a good look, dude. It's not a good look. And yet, such an important point for you to highlight that this is literally what he was doing Friday morning until it got cut short. Love will make a person do crazy things. Carolynic. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Joining me now is a congressman whose investigation of Kash Patel's travel and spending has helped spark much of this Congressman Jamie Raskin, a Democrat of Maryland, and ranking member of the Judiciary Committee. Obviously, you're a ranking member of a committee that has oversight over the Department of Justice. The FBI is within that department. I mean, just to level set here, again, I think it's pretty clear, but, like, FBI directors don't generally do this, right? This is not the norm for the FBI directors that we've had before. Well, most FBI directors come out of the FBI or some relevant career experience, and it's very tenuous in Kash Patel's case. He was obviously chosen for the reason all of Trump's people were chosen for a fierce and unflinching loyalty. He's an election denier. He's somebody who participated in all of Trump's fraudulent conspiracy theories about how January 6 was an FBI set up or an Antifa job or what happened. you, and he ran around the country talking about how important it was to release the Epstein files until he got in and then participated actively in the cover-up of the Epstein files. But what do you know? Somebody who behaves like that also has no relevant law enforcement expertise or professionalism and is, you know, taking the taxpayers in the government for a ride, like a lot of the other people in the government. And so... One my colleague said to me, well, don't you think that Trump will want to keep him because it distracts from Trump's own corruption, which is overwhelming, which, you know, does dwarf Kash Patel's corruption. But I think that Trump figures that it draws attention on that front, it draws attention to the essential corruption of the administration.

Well, I have two minds of this. So I first ask you this. I mean, one of the things that Carolina pointed out, and we are reporting at MS now about the plane being switched, right, clearly because the new plane didn't have the same security features as the old Air Force one. And again, this is like serious stuff. There is, right now, there are strikes at Iran. It's a nation that we... began a war with by assassinating their leader, along with many other people, including the current leader's father, as well as his family members who have died, and he was hit in the strike as well. This is not generally that common among states that are starting wars, just a straight-up assassination, successful assassination attempt. There is very good reason. for the national security apparatus to be worried about reprisals right now, which is not even to mention all the other things that the FBI actually has to do every day to, you know, prevent terror attacks and keep the country safe. I mean, there's a tremendous workload. Your point... also accentuates the extraordinary nature of the fact that the president was flying around on this new jet that was given to him by Qatar worth $400 million, hundreds of millions of dollars more of U.S. money put into it. And the security forces said they could not guarantee the security of it. And they did not think it was secure. And there have been questions from the beginning about whether it's bugged and tapped and so on. But this is really about whether that... plane is defensible. In the meantime, you've got the FBI director jetting off to go see his girlfriend, you know, in this performance in Chicago. And I'm with you. It sounds like a lot of fun, but most people will go ahead and buy their own ticket rather than spend tens of thousands of dollars on government travel. Something incidentally that Kash Patel complained about with respect to the last FBI director, Christopher Ray. I guess my feeling here, often so often in this era one finds oneself reaching for the old joke about the food being terrible and the portions are so small. There's a little bit of Kash Patel, which is like, do you want someone who's more focused on like spending 16 hours a day building the Donald Trump aspiring dictator secret police, some J. Edgar Hoover 2.0 who answers to a person who's the largest threat to American democracy in my lifetime? Or do you want someone who seems to mostly want to spend his time on jet skis and seeing his girlfriend? Like I do worry a little bit that a more determined person with the power that Kash Patel has been granted could genuinely pose a graver threat to American democracy. Yeah, I mean, that's quite a choice between petty corruption and authoritarianism. Unfortunately, they tend to go together, and it would be great to have a real law enforcement professional take over. And maybe the exposing of all of this corruption, not just by Senator Dick Durbin and me, but also by Chuck Grassley, who's the chair of the Judiciary Committee, although he wrote letters in private and we helped make them public. But in any event, maybe that will.

lead to a serious discussion about who should be leading the FBI and putting a real law enforcement professional in there. I mean, it might be too much to hope for given the administration, but we're going to keep fighting for what the American people deserve. That's fair enough. I do hope people enjoy the festival in Chicago this weekend. Looks like a fun time. Congressman Jamie Raskin. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Ever since I was young, I've watched people working hard, chasing opportunity, making sacrifices, doing everything they can to build a better life. And now, we're shining a light on what matters most. Our economy, our national identity, our democracy, our future. The stakes have never been higher. It's all on the line. On the line with Alicia Menendez. Weekdays at 12 p.m. Eastern on MS now.

Half a year has passed since ICE agents shot and killed two American citizens in cold blood in Minneapolis and lied about it. Shocking acts of violence that blew back on Donald Trump and his force of mass armed deportation agents. And now, while ICE has shot and killed another man at another traffic stop in another major American city as a part of another deportation surge, and they're offering another cover story for the violence that is just falling apart day by day. Lorenzo Salgado Arahu. 52. A father of three just had picked up three co-workers in Houston and was heading to a construction site Tuesday morning in his white van. They were followed by ICE agents in at least one black unmarked SUV. That SUV is captured on the video you see here as it begins its pursuit. You see it right there. Would you know that was a law enforcement official? Moments later, an agent on foot fired into Salgado's white van, striking him in the stomach and killing him. And then, like clockwork, as we have seen before, DHS said, Salgado, quote, rammed an ICE law enforcement vehicle, refused to follow multiple verbal commands, and weaponized his vehicle in an attempt to run over an ICE law enforcement officer, resulting in our officer firing his weapon in self-defense. But local journalists saw no evidence of damage on Salgado's vans to suggest he'd rammed anyone. In fact, look at it right there, the front of that, does that look like a van that's rammed anyone? And then they surfaced new video from the incident that appeared to show the unmarked ICE vehicle aggressively trying to essentially corner the van, run it off the road, get in front of it. Sources told NBC News the agents involved weren't wearing body cameras. ICE admitted that was true. They blamed Democrats on Capitol Hill without knowing that Republicans controlled Congress and gave ICE nearly $200 billion last year. So there's no body cam footage, but here's the thing. There are three other men in that van. So there are witnesses. Sagato Street passengers who are undocumented have all been taken into ICE custody. And today, the Washington Post reports, despite being held separately by the feds, all three men interviewed separately tell an identical story about how Sogato was killed, a story that contradicts the government account. Through a lawyer, all three of the men reiterated that there were never any ICE agents in front of the van, that they came in and started shooting from the sides. When asked about the allegation that Sagato was trying to run an Asian over, one of the men wrote in his statement, quote, that is a lie. Juan Parano is the chief executive, the League of United Latin American Citizens. He has been counseling the family of Lorenzo Sagada-Rajo, and he joins me now. I want to just start with a question about the family and the body of Mr. Arajo. There were reports that they were unable to get the body of their father back from the government. Is that still the case?

Sadly, it is Chris. You know, the agents basically took all of the personal identifiable information from his person before they put him in the ambulance. So when he arrived at the hospital, they had to check him in basically as a John Doe. And so after several hours, waiting on scene, they were finally directed to the hospital, to Bentob Hospital. And when they arrived, they couldn't find him. They couldn't identify him. And it also then required additional steps for them to do biometric verification of his identity before they can confirm that he was deceased. That took longer than it should have. And then, you know, we started the process early today to finalize all the paperwork that's required so they can take him into their possession. The mayor of Houston, John Whitmire, had a press conference today, and he talked about the possibility of investigation. But he noted, as was the case in Minneapolis, with both, I believe, Renee Good and Alex Preddy, that the FBI was essentially blocking them from obtaining evidence, sharing evidence, and doing joint investigation. I want you to hear what he had to say and get your reaction. Take a listen. The FBI has all the evidence that would normally go in to an HBD or other law enforcement agencies investigation. They have the evidence. In this instance, the van, the passengers, the deceased, and they're tightly controlling it. Do you think there's a cover-up happening right now, sir? I do. I do. You know, the ISIS story has changed significantly. First they say it was a targeted operation, then it's not a targeted operation. You outlined very clearly, Chris, all the inconsistencies basically in their story, and it's changing literally by the hour. The last we heard is that they were targeting two men that were of Guatemalan descent, but all the men in that van were basically Mexican nationals at the end of the day. So the video evidence, we believe, will prove that this was yet another use of excessive force and that this man, Lorenzo, never really had to see and have this fate. It's a tragedy for his family and a tragedy for our Latino community in Texas and across the country. I want to just read a little more from the witness testimony of the Washington Post reported today via a lawyer from the three men who were there because it's the only eyewitness accounts we have other than what ICE has put out and those camera shots. Jose Trinidad Rojas described the agents violently pulling Salgado Arajo out of the driver's seat and throwing him to the ground. They put shackles on the men wrists and ankles, this presumably after he was shot. Vizier Salgado said his brother was yelling for help as he was bleeding out. It just happened so fast, Salgado told the attorney, the three men lay helpless as their boss lay dying. What do you and what do the family members, most importantly, want to see happen here?

Well, you know, there isn't going to be justice because there's nothing at all that's going to bring Lorenzo back. The only thing that we can really ask for is accountability. And in order to get accountability, there needs to be a real, transparent investigation, an independent investigation. I heard the mayor, and to be very candid, he sounds very different than Mayor Frey in Minneapolis when he was faced with the same exact scenario. We demand it for him to start an investigation. We know that it's going to be difficult. We don't expect it to be easy. We expect the state to even have to potentially sue the federal government and DHS to actually preserve this evidence that we have. But the truth needs to come out for Lorenzo's family, but for our community to really understand what's happening and hopefully put an end to the senseless violence and killing of good men like Lorenzo. So hardworking, committed to their families. This, the death of Mr. Ajo comes amidst what is another deportation enforcement surge. And what's been clear is since Christenome and Gregory Bovino have essentially been fired and left, they were in place in Mark William Mullen at the DHS. And he is attempting to kind of do what they did in Minneapolis and Chicago and Los Angeles, but not put the social media videos, not do a bunch of press, not crow about it, essentially try to do it under the radar so that it doesn't attract attention this time. Federal immigration officials have detained more than 10,000 people in the last five days, major surge. Top ICE officials were told to make sure that as many officers as possible were working seven days a week and to put 80% of their officers on arrest operations, according to U.S. officials. Do you think Mr. Salgado's death, that Salgado's death is the result of this surge? Is there a sort of inescapable logic to the kind of enforcement operations that this DHS under this president have been doing? Chris. I hate to say it, okay, but I'll be blunt. Nothing really changed after Renee Good and Alex Freddie were shot in Kilt. DHS's enforcement actions have continued, unabated, and to your point, they haven't been in the headlines, but they haven't stopped either. Those 2,000 people per day is an incredible number. And they have not only $170 billion, but an additional $70 billion that was tacked on. So they can continue this all the way through the end of Trump's presidency, all the way through 2029. And so our commuter needs to stand up. We need to be vigilant. We need to stand up for ourselves, and Latinos are doing that. We had a petition with over 150,000 people demanding an independent investigation in less than 48 hours. Thank goodness that the community is outpouring and support for the family, but they will never be able to replace Lorenzo. But this is happening every day in cities across the country. It's been silent. It's been under the radar, and it is no longer. Juan Parano of Lulaq. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you, Chris.

Still ahead, Colorado Secretary of State, Jena Griswold, on Trump's latest attempt to put his thumb on the scale. That's putting it lightly this November. That's next. This is a Monday.com ad. The same Monday.com helping people worldwide getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry. The same Monday.com with built-in AI, scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.com that your team will actually love using. The same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Yes, the same Monday.com. Have you ever wanted to share your opinions with MSNow about our TV programs, podcasts, live events, and more? Now's your chance to have your voice heard. Join the MSNow Insights community at MS. Now slash insights.

Donald Trump is throwing a tantrum about a bipartisan housing affordability bill, something any other president, Republican or Democrat, wouldn't hesitate to sign, especially in an election year when voters keep saying over and over their most pressing issue is the cost of living. Nevertheless, Trump announced in a post, quote, I will not sign the housing bill, which has been fully approved by Congress and sent to the White House in protest over the fact. The United States Senate is not capable of passing the Save America Act. So the housing bill quietly becomes law at midnight without Trump's signature. He's not vetoing it. And again, without the political opportunity of a big televised bill signing with the president that would give Republicans. a big thing to talk about four months out from Election Day, like anyone else would do it. He's got the worst of both worlds. It's going to go into law and he doesn't get to claim credit. That's how he's punishing members of his own party for the thing he really cares about because he only cares about himself. He doesn't care about policy or lowering prices, which is failing to pass his voter suppression law. And this is the key thing because he would rather cheat than win. Right? If he wanted to win, count the housing bill. But he doesn't want to win. He wants to cheat. He's pulling out all the stops to do it. Yesterday, he ousted the remaining three commissioners of the Election Assistance Commission. That's a federal department that oversees and helps with elections. Earlier this week, the Department of Justice threatened top election officials in every one of the 50 states with criminal prosecution if non-citizens cast ballots. Jena Griswold oversees elections in Colorado as a secretary of state there and received a copy of that letter from the DOJ and she joins me now. Madam Secretary, I want to direct your attention to this line in that letter and get a response to it when you read it. Any election officer, including the chief election officer of the state, Who knowingly retains citizens on the state road to registration list or facilitates non-citizens in receiving and casting ballots could be subject to criminal liability. What did you think when you read that? Well, first, Chris, thanks for having me on, as always. And I think it's a threat. The DOJ is threatening the state's 50 chief election officers. That's what it is. And this is fundamentally is intimidation to try to push states to give the federal government some type of control over state-run elections. We are not going to allow them to have control. It also at the same time continues to push out Donald Trump's lies and conspiracies about non-citizen voting, which we all know is exceedingly rare. So it's more threats, it's more intimidation. I think it got a bad reception from Democrats and Republicans, and we're going to continue to fight to hold the line in Colorado and in Democratic-controlled Secretary of State offices all across the nation.

Yeah, let me ask you about the thing you just said, because I know that you have been active in sort of their sort of secretaries of state organizations that you've been a party to. You know, and people take their job seriously. And I think generally, Republican or Democrat, we've seen election officials and election administrators show admirable integrity. I mean, really, across the board, across geography, party and ideology. Yeah, do you get a sense of the Republicans who got this were a little cheezed off? I think a couple of them definitely were. The lieutenant governor of Utah oversees their elections and said very forcefully, I think she called it a love letter, another love letter from the DOJ threatening prosecution. But there are, you know, there are Republican secretaries of state willing to go along with this BS from the Trump administration. There absolutely is. And I was so proud to lead the Democratic Association of Secretaries of State. to lead Democrats into victory in 2022 and winning many of the major battleground states so that we have sensible people who will not embrace this MAGA conspiracy led actions holding the line, holding the line for every American, not to help Democrats, to help the American voters. That's what this is supposed to be all about. This strikes me, I mean, at some level, it strikes me a little bit of an empty threat. You know, even when you read it, they say you could be subject criminal liability. It would be an enormous reach for them to do that. Obviously, it's still a threat. The firing of the election, the EAC commissioners, which again, it's like one of these things where it's, that alone doesn't change that much about how elections are run. But they're clearly just trying to exert leverage everywhere they can. How important. How big a deal is this firing of the EAC commissioners from your perspective? I think your take is right. Ultimately, the firing of the EAC commissioners is not going to greatly affect or affect at all the 2026 elections. But I think it symbolizes a couple things. Remember, back when Trump assumed office for the second time, he ordered the EAC to promulgate new voting equipment standards. And he was trying to do that to push out conspiracies about how 2020 was stolen, obviously. That executive order was stopped in court. And then the commissioners themselves were thwarted by a working group of election officials who refused to go along with promulgating new standards. So I think what happened is Trump got mad. So he, what does he do? He fires anybody who doesn't go along with him. So it's not. that interesting of a story, but I think it's just, you know, there's so many ways that Trump is trying to meddle really in the weeds on elections. Luckily, he's largely failing. Here's another example. So this is now, now, again, they're just trying everything, right? So now FEMA is announcing that there's a, there's a sort of pool of money for Homeland Security grant funding that is only going to be given to states that agree to the following election security measures. They have to sit, so you don't get this, this has nothing to do with elections. You just don't get access as money unless you submit a plan for transitioning away from unsecure electronic voting systems.

After each federal election, states must conduct a manual audit at least 5% of all ballots cast, required to reconcile the number of voters who participate in each federal number of ballots cast. And it goes on and on and on, including, you know, this stuff around immigration and hunting out immigrants. This does strike me. I mean, I don't think Colorado is going to go along with it. I imagine someone will sue. But this strikes me as, as, again, another form of pressure. I think that's right. And this, not to get super nerdy with you for your viewers, but one of the questions with these FEMA grants is, well, who's attesting to that? Is it local county law enforcement attesting that they're going to take the entire state away from the form of voting? But I think that the big picture is that Donald Trump has doubled down on his efforts to attack the elections. Justin in his second term, we've seen two unconstitutional election orders. We've seen the DOJ suing states left and right trying to get sensitive voter data. They now are trying to threaten us into submission. And they are going and going and going on. But the big picture for your viewers is that they are largely losing. We all need to stay in this fight. I'm in this fight as Secretary of State. I'm also running for Colorado Attorney General to protect our democracy. And your viewers can join me at Jennifer, Colorado.com. I'd love to have them on the team. Yeah, I remember thinking when I was younger, particularly after the 2020 debacle, that the U.S. needed a more centralized and federalized system of election administration. I've really come at 180 on that one, Colorado Secretary of State. Jennifer Griswold, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Still to come with the newly wide open Senate race in Maine. And it's official as of today. We got some news on that. What it means for Democrats in November next.

It is now officially official. Graham Platner has formally left the Maine Senate race. Graham Platner, who suspended his campaign this week amid allegations of sexual assault that he denies, confirmed this evening he now has formally withdrawn his candidacy for the United States Senate. Graham Platner added, quote, my name may have been on the ballot, but the ballot line belongs to the people of Maine. As such, please consider this notice as my official withdrawal from consideration for this office. Graham Platner's exit from the race has now kickstarted, sort of modified primary, essentially, among Maine Democrats, several candidates already declaring that they would like the position they're running. The party has until July 27th to replace them on the ballot. They're, I think, going to put together a convention of some sort, although they're still being worked out. Throughout this election season, one thing that's become quite clear is that while voters are willing to support the Democratic Party and often, like a lot of Democratic politicians, they are very frustrated with the status quo. Just one new data point. Data for progress polls shows that 32% of swing state voters say the leadership in the Democratic Party is... too old and two out of touch. That says 56% of the screen, so it's one of those two. Democratic voters want to win, but it is clear they do not trust the establishment to do it for them. Joining us now are Amanda Littman, president and co-founder of the organization run for something, and Brian Boitler, who's been writing about how Democratic voters have lost faith in the party's leadership and his new piece title, quote, the insurgency will continue until morale improves. Let me just start on the news with you, Amanda. I mean, there was a little bit of... There was some reporting that was like, oh, he's going to wait until Monday was the actual deadline, which I think made people understandably feel a little queasy. So this does feel like a relief and also does feel like, okay, blank slate sort of clean page. What do you think? I think this is a really incredible opportunity for a whole new class of Democrats in Maine to figure out where they want to take the party. Where do they want to go? This is also a chance, somewhat maybe counterintuitively, for the party establishment to rebuild some trust with voters. I've been so impressed by the Maine Democratic Party's executive director going on Twitter, putting out these videos, talking about how they're thinking through this process. It's not easy to do this, but they have a chance to rebuild some trust with the main. Democratic Party, or at least the primary voters, by like running a process that is fair and inclusive and people at least like feel like they can be a part of. Yeah, I mean, what do you, Brian, your piece sort of goes through what you think is kind of one of the points of, of tension in the Democratic Party, and particularly between the parties voters and its politicians, I think, writ large, right, to overgeneralize. Like, what do you think is driving? And it's, I don't want to overstate it because like, you know, there's tons of incumbents winning primaries very easily. But there is a lot more anti-incumbent and surprising primary victories than we, that I've seen in a long time. What do you think is driving?

I mean, I think the main thing that happened is that Democrats lost the 2024 election of Donald Trump. Yes, exactly. After, you know, a huge, a huge protest and resistance movement did everything they thought they were supposed to do to prevent that from happening. And they put a lot of trust in the Democratic establishment to do the sort of political side of that work and it didn't work out. And so they're sort of looking elsewhere, right? And, you know, there are candidates running in contested races. on a sort of more confrontational, more uncompromising agenda. And I think what voters sense on those candidates is these people seem like they're more willing to fight. Republicans. You know, they say abolish ICE, some of the more establishment candidates will shy away. They say fight oligarchy. I mean, the word fight is right in there. And some of the more establishment candidates kind of shy away from that kind of rhetoric. But it doesn't really, you know, you're not going to abolish ice while Donald Trump is president for the next two and a half years. And you're not going to, you're not going to be able to do much to the oligarchy for the next two and a half years. So there's this unanswered question of what do you do for the next two and a half years? And I think these voters are looking for candidates. who will bring better tactics to bear against Republicans in partisan politics so that Democrats aren't consistently dealt the kind of setbacks that, you know, the Democratic base experiences as body blows. Yeah, and there's also, I think, yeah, I think that's right. I think there's also kind of an old blood, new blood. Sometimes that's old blood, new blood in the sort of metaphorical sense. Sometimes it's like much more literally physically in terms of just age. I wanted to get both your read on what's happening in Colorado because it's pretty fascinating, right? Like John Hickenlooper is the incumbent Democratic senator. He had a primary challenger, a state legislator named Julie Gonzalez. And basically, this was not like a high-profile race. It's not like what we saw in those New York races where the mayor endorsed the challenger or we saw in Evanston where Janjikowski seat. This was pretty under the radar. She's going to come within like five points of him. I mean, no money, no media attention. Like, no, we're talking totally under the radar. That is some kind of message from Democratic primary voters in the state of Colorado that this essentially uncontested primary with, I think a fairly uncontroversial senator, is going to be this close, Amanda. You know, Julie Gonzalez is a run for something alum. She was a great leader in the state senate. So she's qualified. She's known. She's been doing the work. She has some organizing muscle behind her. But I also think she spoke to the anger that people feel. And I think Brian was right. Some of it is about tactics and a lot of it is about tactics. But it's also about this emotional catharsis. Like voters are tired of being gaslit, of being told, oh, this is a distraction. Oh, like.

or just writing letters, they want someone to speak in the way that makes them feel like their anger is justified. Because it is. It is justified to be furious. And when our elected leaders don't reflect that emotional reality, like feelings are not facts, but feelings are really important in politics. Well, so this gets to the number of the issue to go back to what you were saying, Brian, right, about like abolish ice, right? And I think Graham Platner ended his letter today saying, you know, F ice, free Palestine, solidarity forever, something like that. The question is, there's a real question, right? Which is, like, the Democratic primary voters, say, in Michigan may want to hear Abolish ICE, and I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Abdul El-Sayed is called for that. I'm a little agnostic about whether that's what the median swing voter in a swing state like Michigan that you have to win wants to hear. And I'm not so sure if you asked me what my advice to the Michigan Democratic Senate nominee would be. I mean, if you ask me if you pay me to go tell James Talarico what to say, it would not be that. I can tell you assure you that. So like there is some tension sometimes between what the primary voters want to hear and what is going to work. Oh, I totally agree. And this is why I think it would be, it would behoove incumbent Democrats, particularly incumbent Senate Democrats, incumbent Senate Democrats who are running for other offices to reflect on the past and talk about how they intend to do things differently if they want to regain the trust of these voters. Because, you know, the, if abolish ICE is controversial and the establishment is. is hitting candidates like, I'll say Ed, because he's saying it, you're creating all this factional infighting. But it would be possible to say that, you know, Democrats under Obama and under Biden, you know, Republicans developed this method to kind of like veto any democratic legislation that came before Congress, you know, even when Democrats held the House, the Senate, and the White House, and Democrats didn't really respond. And that meant that you couldn't get better health care. And that meant that Barack Obama couldn't provide more jobs in the aftermath of the Great Recession. And it meant that when the Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade, Democrats weren't able to codify Roe versus Wade. And a kind of similar timidity, you know, Donald Trump incited an insurrection and Democrats weren't able to hold him accountable. And we recognize now that we need to solve that problem before we do anything about ICE or anything about the oligarchy. Because if you don't do those things, like the Supreme Court's going to throw... it out, but just leftishly. Yeah. Amanda Lipman and Brian Boitler. Thank you both. Stay tuned in just a few minutes. Jensaki will be speaking with election lawyer Mark Elias on the Trump threat to the midterms. We'll be right back.

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