Trans March Kicks Off Pride Weekend; Plus, Boyle Heights Community After the Lineage Warehouse Fire; Gender Apartheid in Afghanistan Exacerbated by International Community’s Normalization of Taliban

It's Friday, June 26th, 2026th. This is up front, and I'm Kimia Akibati, filling in for Brian Edwards Teaker. On today's show, we'll start with talking about the San Francisco Transmarch, its history. and its programming. And then from there, we'll go to Southern California to discuss the impact of the latest warehouse fires on the community in Boyle Heights and East L.A. In the second half of the show, we'll speak with Zabedha Akbar to discuss the ongoing gender apartheid, imposed by Taliban leaders in Afghanistan, and how this is being enabled by the international community through normalization, even though they state otherwise. That's all next, after the news. I'm Max Pringle with these headlines. Venezuelan President Delci Rodriguez said today that the death toll has risen to 589, with 2,980 injured, as rescue crews dig through the rubble of Wednesday's deadly back-to-back earthquakes near the capital Caracas. Karen Chamas has more. The 7.2 and 7.5 magnitude earthquakes collapsed buildings and sent panicked residents into the streets as communities across the South American country sustained damage. Buildings were evacuated in cities and areas were impacted as far as Brazil's Amazon about 1,000 miles from Venezuela's capital. Acting president, Detsi Rodriguez, declared a state of emergency. The earthquakes among the strongest to strike Venezuela in more than a century occurred shortly after 6 p.m. local time. I'm Karen Chamas. A federal judge has ruled against President Trump's executive order to create a federal voter list and limit who can receive a mail-in ballot. U.S. District Court Judge Indira Talwani sided with a coalition of nearly two dozen states that challenged Trump's order in granting a summary judgment. Her ruling applies to this year's midterm election cycle. Also, Vice President JD Vance said Thursday that the Watergate scandal that brought down President Richard Nixon would have been a blip in today's news cycle. and he drew parallels between nixon and trump arguing that both were targeted by what he called deep state forces JD Vance said quote if watergate happened to-morrow it would be like a twelve-hour news story the idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy

the supreme court has cleared the way for the trump administration to potentially revive an immigration policy once used to turn back migrants seeking asylum at the u s mexico border The justices overturned a lower court order on Thursday blocking the practice used by presidents of both parties. It limited the number of people who could apply for asylum each day during President Trump's first term. Advocates said the tactic created a humanitarian crisis as thousands of people settled in unsafe makeshift shelters to wait their turn. the trump administration said it was necessary to deal with an increase in asylum seekers at the border a man who drove a vehicle through a crowded christmas market in germany in twenty twenty four killing six people and injuring hundreds more has been sentenced to life in prison talib al abdulmosin a refugee saudi doctor went on trial in the eastern german city of magdeburg in november the court found that he carries particularly serious guilt The German news agency DPA reported that the court found that he carried a particularly serious guilt. That means he won't be eligible for release after 15 years. Five women and a nine-year-old boy died and many more people were wounded. In the December 20, 20, 24 attack that lasted just over a minute. Investigators said he apparently acted out of a dissatisfaction with the outcome of the legal dispute and the failure of various criminal complaints. They've also said that he planned the attack without accomplices. This weekend, Germany, the Czech Republic, and Austria are expected to bear the brunt of a blistering heat wave that's been roasting much of Western Europe. Temperatures have exceeded 100 degrees in parts of France and the United Kingdom this week, breaking previous June temperature records. In France, dozens of people have drowned as they sought relief in unsupervised rivers and lakes. Experts say climate change is contributing to a rise on the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events. The United Nations has paused its evacuation of ships through the Strait of Hormuz after Iran struck a Singaporean cargo ship near the coast of Oman. Under the terms of the temporary U.S.-Iranian ceasefire deal, Iran was supposed to reopen the strait. Iran has warned against ships using an unauthorized route through the waterway. More from Mitch McCann.

Another consideration here is regarding how the U.S. may respond, given that oil prices have plummeted, meaning that gas prices here and air fears are likely to come down in the coming weeks. The president will be cautious of the political implications that this war flares up again. So on one hand, he may be infuriated by these reported strikes in the Strait of Hormuz, but on the other, he may be cautious of the implications politically if he strikes back. That's Mitch McCann. Russian officials said today that the military intercepted hundreds of Ukrainian drones targeting Russian regions and the Crimea. Charles Dela Desma has more. The Russian Defence Ministry says it's intercepted 660 Ukrainian drones overnight over 12 Russian regions, as well as the illegally annexed Crimea, the Azov and the Black Sea. It appears to be one of the biggest drone attacks on Russian regions and the annexed Crimea. Since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in recent months, Ukraine stepped up its aerial campaign against Russian military installations and energy facilities. Its success has caused fuel shortages and destruction. Army supply lines, stalling Moscow's war efforts after more than four years of fighting. I'm Charles Dullesma. Governor Gavin Newsom is calling for a national billionaires tax and suggests the U.S. government should own a stake in AI companies, even as he opposes a similar statewide measure on the November ballot in California. He warns that urgent reform is needed to prevent wealth, concentration from harming democracy. Gavin Newsom's proposal aligns him with the populace left, as he considers a 2028 presidential run. He proposes a minimum tax on those with over $100 million in net worth and wants to prevent the wealthy from borrowing against stock portfolios tax-free. The governor opposes a California measure taxing billionaires, arguing the issue should be addressed federally to prevent billionaires from leaving the state. Sunny today in the San Francisco Bay Area, highs in the 70s, lows tonight in the 50s, in the Central Valley. Sunny, highs in the 80s, lows tonight in the 60s. Those are the headlines. I'm Max Pringle on KPFA. Just past 708 in the morning, the show is up front, and I'm Kimia Akberi, usually your producer behind the scenes, but today, filling in for Brian Edwards Teeker, who will be back on Monday. And also, we will have Dr. Switzer back for Corona Calls, as I know he has been missed for the past couple of weeks in his absence. Today, The Transmarch will kick off Pride Weekend, as it does every year at Dolores Park from 3 to 6 p.m. with the march starting at 6 p.m.

Now, nowadays, the Transmarch is an essential part of pride lasting an entire day, featuring youth and elder brunches, resource and information booth, speakers, and performances. But for a city that has such a rich queer history and a pioneering trans community that gave rise to the Compton riots in 1966, even before the Stonewall riots, the Transmarch didn't start until 2004. Here today with us, we have one of the organizers and folks who is involved and we'll get into the history of the Transmarch, more information on what to expect from today's events. So our guests joining us now is Mar Omega. She is a community organizer and head of the media team for the San Francisco TransMarch. She is also Bay Area's finest trans-Penai pop princessa, and both her music and social work are intimately intertwined as she tries to create audiovisual and physical spaces for everyone to be liberated and celebrated, which comes through in her work like her song titled Like This. Thank you so much for joining us, Marr. Hi, thank you so much for having me, Camilla. Of course. Let's maybe start with a brief history lesson for our listeners. Could you tell us about how the Transmarch came to be such an iconic and essential part of Pride Weekend and why and how it kind of started in 2004? So TransMarch started in 2004, and I was, how old was I then? I was seven years old, so I was not there for that time. But I have spoken to some of the elders that have helped organize it, such as Tita Ida. And it really started as a, in context of the... like greater global political climate that we are still in today. So, for example, I will take it back even further to the 60s when Compton's cafeteria was popping off in the tenderloin. At the same time, the Vietnam War, the anti-war movement, the civil rights movement was all going off at the same time. And during 2004, what was going on was on the... quote unquote, war on terror. So the trans march and the trans liberation movement in 2004 was really closely intertwined with the anti-war movement in the Middle East at the time. And we're still finding today and we're still fighting against that today, except that we have even more struggles, more like if you're going to imagine like a Hydra dragon, now you have ice. Now you have lots of things, obviously. So that's where we started. Yes, definitely. I think something that's really incredible about experiencing the trans march in San Francisco is really feeling the sort of radical roots and history of it. And I feel like as there's the ongoing attacks on trans rights, gender affirming care, trans youth, that has been existing and only getting exacerbated currently under the Trump administration and globally, actually, as we see the rise of right-wing governments, it's so incredible to...

feel and experience the radical roots of the trans march when you partake in it. And of course, all of the community orgs that are tabling there. I know there's the Firefly conference for families of trans youth who will have their conference later on in the summer who are there. Mark, could you tell us maybe a little bit more about who are the folks that will be providing kind of like tabling and information? There's a lot. I wish I had the full list. in the back of my head, but I know, for example, the Office of Transgender Initiatives, Ella Paratranslatinas, the GSA Network, Open House. Open House is really cool. I've recently found out about them. They provide housing for unhoused community, which is really important because... It's hard out here, and especially let's keep it in mind that Mayor Daniel Lurie is trying to cut all of these programs that are actually tabling at TransMarch, including HIV screening. Let's bring that back. All these things that Mayor Dan Lurie is trying to cut in his new budget. And I just think it's really funny that he can't make up a $600 million deficit. Meanwhile in New York, which is, quote, unquote, the financial capital of the country, Mayor Zohran Mamdani can make up for a $2 billion budget without cutting public services. So I think what we provide is really essential for the community. Absolutely, yeah. It was just Wednesday, I believe, we did one of our segments on the ongoing federal policies that are cutting reproductive justice and medical care that kind of trickled down into cutting HIV and AIDS care nationally and of course also globally cutting HIV and AIDS funding through USAID. Yeah, but how can folks get involved and volunteer in the Transmarch? How can the community step in support all of these different resources that are going to be jeopardized? I think if you want to get involved, just come up. pull up, we have a resource fair and our show at 3 p.m. There's a lot to do. And then we have our march at 6 p.m. And if you really want to get involved throughout the year, we have events for Trans Day of Visibility, for Trans Day of Remembrance. So it's not just like a one and done deal just in June, because the struggle is perpetual. The struggle is... Hopefully not, but it's giving right now. It's giving eternal. You know, the trans liberation is global liberation. Trans struggle is class struggle. So it's not something we just do in June and then we disperse. So yeah, we have our volunteer link in our Instagram bio and our link tree. And we particularly organize on Signal. If you have Signal, that's where we typically communicate with our volunteers.

If you're there and you just want to connect, reach out to some of the volunteers that are there and we will get connected. Thank you so much for all of that, Mar. I'm really looking forward to the March today at Dolores. It's always so incredible. And I hope that, yeah, our listeners come out, support, learn more, get involved. And, yeah, hope to see you there. Thanks again for joining us. Thank you so much, Kenia. Mara Omega is a community organizer and head of the media team for the San Francisco Transmarch. Her music and social work create audiovisual and physical spaces for everyone to be liberated and celebrate it. We'll now turn to Southern California, where it's been over a week, nearly nine days since a fire ignited at the cold storage warehouse operated by lineage on the borders of Los Angeles' Boyle Heights neighborhood and East L.A. While the fire has been declared knocked down as of now, health and economic uncertainty remain, while city officials have stated that the air quality is no longer dangerous. That doesn't quite line up with the data from EPA's air quality indicator map that previously shows hazardous conditions in the past week. And most importantly, residents of the area report symptoms including dizziness, nausea, trouble breathing, throat aches, among other physical symptoms, while also enduring the anxiety from disruption to their daily lives. Now, many are also naturally upset because they say that East L.A. continues to bear the brunt of the region's pollution and climate disaster. citing the recent LA oil spill that happened in late May, which dumped nearly 25,000 gallons of crude oil onto the streets and into the LA River. Now, our next guest has been on the ground speaking with community members and documenting the impact they've experienced so far. And existing concerns moving forward. Isaac Seja is a freelance contributor to the LA local reporting on the Boyle Heights community and has been speaking with members on how this has impacted their daily lives. Thanks for joining us, Isaac. Thank you for having me. Let's start with, I guess, the present and then go backwards. Could you maybe kind of tell us what you know logistically on the current state in the neighborhood? Yeah, so on Wednesday at about 6 p.m., the fire department announced that the fire was extinguished, meaning, you know, there's no more active flames and no threat of fire spread.

But they did say that while the fire has been knocked down, debris within the structure continues to smolder as the crews transition into the overhaul phase of operations. The mayor and the sheriff's department have maintained that there isn't, I guess, like a big enough risk to have granted an evacuation order for folks. I read some reports on voluntary evacuation. What are kind of the details of that or how have they justified that? Is there somewhere for folks to have gone? Yeah, so on Sunday. Mayor Karen Baugh said that a mandatory evacuation was not necessary. The state guidelines tie evacuation orders to immediate threats to life or property. So for those who were interested in voluntarily leaving, they pointed to two smoke relief shelters, which were a few miles away. I know that there's this physical aspect of the hazardous material in the air and needing to have air purifiers. Angelinos are no stranger to fire in poor air quality. The Eaton and Palisades fire just happened, but obviously that doesn't change. Just kind of how devastating and dire the situation is. So I guess what have been the health concerns? And then we can also talk about the daily disruption. But let's first start with what have people been recording on how their bodies have been reacting and how they're dealing with that. Yeah. So I think most of the people that I spoke to noted the fact that the smoke. started irritating their eyes. Their skin felt quite irritated. And a lot of the people that are like closest to the area started developing like a slight cough. Outside of that there were different people with different. pre-existing conditions. So they're feeling the symptoms a lot more intensely than the average person. So yeah, it's just been a mix of those things up to this point. I know that some groups like Mutual Aid Network L.A. and Mask Block L.A., which the second one, I recall, they kind of set up this mask database and distribution system during the previous fires, and they're also doing that in terms of.

passing out masks to, like, community members, making sure people have protective gear. Was there a city-initiated project to, like, pass out productive gear to people? Was there air purifier access avenue, I guess, for people? Do you know about that? Yes. So the local council member, Isabel Harado, and her team were out there on Sunday morning. distributing air purifiers and masks, but a lot of this people that I did speak with mentioned that they didn't receive a knock on their door, or maybe they just didn't know about it, or yeah, there's just quite a large disconnect in... I think pretty much everyone that I spoke to between them and the local officials, they wished that there were a lot better messaging going around. A lot of people didn't know that there were air purifiers being given out for free at the shelters for residents. And even then, I think one of the interesting points with all of this is... Where the fire started is in Boyle Heights, which is the city of Los Angeles. But just on the other side of the street, on the other side of Indiana, it's considered East Los Angeles, which is L.A. County. And the issues and people living on both sides, like they'll get turned down for air purifiers if they don't live within the jurisdiction of the certain, either the city or the county, depending on where they're trying to get resources from. So the county supervisor Hilda Solis and her team were also there Sunday, obviously on their side of, you know, the fire. Yeah, they also were distributing air purifiers at one of the shelters, which was in the LA County region. I did see that one of the other council members called for public release of air quality testing results. Do you know if the city has any sort of plan for providing that detail report on what materials were burned in the facility? Do we have any reports on which chemicals and what other materials have been burning that people have been exposed to? Yeah, up to this point, There haven't been any reports from the city as to what chemicals have been in the actual fire. Isaac, you also reported on...

Some of people's financial fears and anxieties, could you talk about how fire and the poor air quality has been getting in the way of people either leaving their homes or going to their places of employments? I saw in some of your reporting people talking about their fears of like financial restraints. What have you been hearing from community members in that regard? So on Sunday, I was out there in the afternoon, and I saw this man, his name is Ivan Aredondo. He was sitting at the end of the street from where the lineage fireside is. And after about an hour, he revealed to me that he actually lives directly across from the site. And he often just waits until the smoke goes away. Because on Sunday, the smoke covered the entire street. It looked like fog. So during a break from the smoke, he took me into his home, or just outside his home. And we walked past the yellow tape to get in. And he shared with me that, you know, he has a van that contains all of his work materials because he works as a street vendor. And he has been unable to leave for work because of, you know, the firefighters are working and they've closed off the streets. So he has been out of work. At that point, he had been out of work since Wednesday. I'm not sure if he was able to return since then. As of now, is there any sort of game plan moving forward from the city or from lineage? I know that I read some reports that the fire department has sort of handed the kind of remaining task of dealing with the fire to the company now that the fire is contained. Have you heard of any sort of plan moving forward in just supporting folks who live near the fire and just dealing with the impact after the containment? Yeah, up to this point, we haven't heard any news regarding supporting the residents after the fire. Having seen the aftermath and the duration of the palisades at Eaton fires, and having spoken to community in Boyle Heights, what do you kind of hope that the city's response will be? Or what do people hope from what you've spoken to? What is it that they need right now? And what do they hope to receive from their elected officials?

Yeah, I think for the people that are closest to the actual fire, they really are asking for direct financial support because a lot of these people have been without work or just like the symptoms that they're facing. They can't even, they don't really feel strong enough to go to work. Outside of that, I think in the larger area, you know, the smoke has been felt from like a few miles away. People are still experiencing symptoms. And for those people, I guess clear messaging and air purifiers. People are still getting air purifiers. I was out there on this Wednesday. People were in line for about an hour getting free purifiers. I think, yeah, people just hope that there's a very... transparent process as to, you know, what kind of chemicals were a part of this fire, what was in the air, and how it can affect them. And are there any sort of like GoFundees or any sort of resources or places that others can go to contribute financially to like support folks who are being affected whose homes are being affected? Do you know of any? Yeah, yeah, there's a couple. like Midnight Books, LA and Dawah Delivery Service. You can donate to help fund free grocery distribution for impacted families. And their Instagram is D-A-W-A-H delivery. And then there's also Projecto Pastoral. They are raising money to provide flexible, direct assistance to families, workers, and residents facing lost wages, health concerns, and transportation challenges because of the fire. Isaac, I think we'll leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us again and just telling us what you've been hearing from community down in LA. Thank you. Isaac Seja is a freelance contributor to the LA Local reporting on Boyle Heights. Up next, we'll speak with Zaweda Akbar of Famina, an organization working with feminist and civic movements in the Middle East and North Africa and Asia region to discuss the ongoing and expanding gender apartheid imposed by the Taliban on the women of Afghanistan and how the EU and the global community is enabling this ongoing issue by normalizing relations with the Taliban, although they state otherwise. That is all next after the news.

I'm Max Pringle with these headlines. Venezuelan President Delsey Rodriguez said today that the death toll has risen to 589, with 2,980 injured, as rescue crews dig through the rubble of Wednesday's deadly back-to-back earthquakes near the capital Caracas. Karen Chamas has more. The 7.2 and 7.5 magnitude earthquakes collapsed buildings and sent panicked residents into the streets as communities across the South American country sustained damage. Buildings were evacuated in cities and areas were impacted as far as Brazil's Amazon about 1,000 miles from Venezuela's capital. Acting president, Detsi Rodriguez, declared a state of emergency. The earthquakes among the strongest to strike Venezuela in more than a century occurred shortly after 6 p.m. local time. I'm Karen Chamas. Governor Gavin Newsom is calling for a national billionaires tax and suggests the U.S. government should own a stake in AI companies, even as he opposes a similar statewide measure on the November ballot in California. He warns that urgent reform is needed to prevent wealth. concentration from harming democracy, Gavin Newsom's proposal aligns him with the populist left, as he considers a 28 presidential run. He proposes a minimum tax on those with over $100 million in net worth and wants to prevent the wealthy from borrowing against stock portfolios tax-free. The governor opposes a California measure taxing billionaires, arguing the issue should be addressed federally to prevent billionaires from leaving the state. The Service Employees International Union, Healthcare Workers West, is backing the California initiative. The union announced its proceeding with it on Thursday. Supporters say the 5% one-time tax on individuals with $1 billion or more in assets. would generate $100 billion for health care and other services in California. A year-long investigation from the San Francisco's civil grand jury shows that a growing number of people are detained in the city's overcrowded, understaffed, and neglected county jails. The 50-page report says that the overcrowding, quote, highlights a challenge that we've been discussing for years. It concludes that San Francisco's jail facilities are aging, its technology is outdated, and the jail population has increasingly complex medical and mental health issues. Sunny today in the San Francisco Bay Area, highs in the 70s, lows tonight in the 50s, in the Central Valley. Sunny, highs in the 80s, lows tonight in the 60s. Those are the headlines. I'm Max Pringle on KPFA. Just past 7.33 in the morning. You're listening to Upfront. I'm Kimia Akibati.

Since August 2021, the Taliban have remained Afghanistan's de facto authorities following the collapse of the former government. And since then, although UN Security Councils have sanctioned Taliban leaders and implemented travel bans for Taliban leaders, the continued crackdown on women and gendered rights has continued in Afghanistan and only getting worse. Just this past month was a crackdown in the city of Herat in western Afghanistan that saw women be abducted and also rained down on with gunfire, which increased the campaign of surveillance and gendered persecution. In this past year, actually, there's been several laws that have been implemented to increase the crackdown on gendered rights in Afghanistan. Our next guess, has worked with people on the ground looking at what happened this June in Herod in addition to contextualizing the broader context of gender persecution that the Taliban have implemented. Our guest is Zoubeid Akbar, who is the Afghanistan program manager at Famina. Her work focuses on supporting the work of grassroots civic movements and women human rights defenders. that are advocating for gender equity and an end to the oppressive policies that the Taliban have imposed on women since regaining power. Thank you so much for joining us, Sabeda. Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure. So, Beda, let's start with the report that Famina worked on in addition to your collaborators, the group Ravizan. What can you kind of tell us about the June 5th incident where... The Taliban authorities in Herod announced a new enforcement campaign targeting women with hijab requirements and the ensuing violence coming from that on the grounds of not abiding by those laws. Let's start there. So what we saw happening in Herod in early June and the crackdown of the Taliban on women because of hijab is not something new, not something unexpected. It's just the extension of their system of gender persecution that they have been imposing on the women of Afghanistan for the past five years. And also, let's not forget that the Taliban used women and women's freedoms and women's public prisons and women's employment in government sectors, education. et cetera, as one of the reasons for fighting the international community. They provoked their foot soldiers by claiming that the international community were corrupting the women of Afghanistan and that these women, by working in ministries, by getting an education, by going to universities, were corrupting the societies. They actually have said that universities and schools where women went during the republic were places.

of promoting corruption and immoral values. So this was really strong for them, and they always had this war against the women of Afghanistan. This is nothing new. During their first rule, also they banned women's access to education. They imposed strict mahran policies on women. So a big part of the war of the Taliban has been on women continuously from the beginning, and they are really fearful of educated women, women active in society. women in the workforce and that's this is just a continuation of that because we spoke to women in herod and witnesses and many women who were taken by the Taliban foot soldiers during that week were abiding by the Taliban's um require hijab requirements um there should have been no excuse for them to be taking to abduct abducting these women and um uh imprisoning imprisoning them and we also heard from witnesses that they when women protested the Taliban's crack, and men joined them as well, that the Taliban fired back, gunshots at them, there were many injured, that they went back to hospital and even took injured women to silence them further. So this is not something new, and it's not about hijab only. It's about erasing women from public spaces, and they do this every once in a while in different provinces to instill fear. and to send back women to their homes and eliminate them from public spaces, because that's the ideal situation for them. The Taliban members have said over and over that a home is the best place for women. The best role for a woman is to give birth to children and raise them and be good wives, and that there is really no reason for them to be out on the streets, and they had the same language this time, too. So at the end of the day, I think it's not about hijab because the Taliban... also have had different criteria for hijab in different provinces. And some provinces, they have banned something which has been allowed in some other provinces, depending on the specific Taliban group in that province or the ethnic and religious community that they represent or the cultural community represent. Their interpretation of hijab has been different. So there is no one specific way they have said that Taliban have said women should dress like. um I think from our witness testimonies and interviews that are reflected in our dispatch, this was just another method to silence women, to oppress them and to ask them to stay home, to not leave their homes. And it was effective because after the protests were targeted by the Taliban, we went back and talked to women, and they said they're scared to leave their homes because the Taliban will just pick them up off the streets, put them in cars, take them to places that are unknown to others. They will not let them speak to their families and then release them on their own terms if they want to. We have heard that they ask families for money in order to release women, et cetera. And then in the past few days, we have been hearing that women in Kabul are fearing going out because they are worried that something like this will happen to them as well. And this is just a tactic that they use every once in a while to silence an oppressed woman. And it is in support of their...

you know, their system of gender persecution that they have been imposing on the women of Afghanistan. You mentioned in the dispatch. There were at least three new laws that were kind of implemented this past year. One of them was the law on the propagation of virtues and prevention of vice. I believe there was also a new criminal code that was announced regarding penalties of physical and domestic violence, as well as principles of separation between spouses. And could you dig into at least... least these three and how they contribute to this ongoing erasure of women from public space but also legal and civic rights. Absolutely. So as I said earlier, there are 135 laws, decrease that the Taliban have issued that directly target women. So everyone, you know, every few days, they think of one more way that they can silence women. They can oppress women and they come up with something and they're like, well, today let's announce that women cannot go to the park. So they cannot go to the restaurants. Or they cannot sing or they cannot pray aloud. around each other. All of these are actually things that they have said. And the three laws that you discussed are some of them codify these previous laws or decrees and bring them together in one document and some of them are brand new that they just decided that they want to impose. For example, the PVPV code codifies a lot of the 135 edicts that they had issued individually. It brings it all together. It's like over 100. pages of hatred towards women, everything that they are banned. And specifically in this PVPV law, what was new was the ban, for example, on women's education in the field of health or midwifery. The ban on women's voices was something that we saw in the PVPVLaw. said that women cannot pray out loud around each other because it would be provocative so not just around men not even around each other and also the law says that windows facing women are banned so if a woman is working in the kitchen her the window of the kitchen cannot be facing the neighbors so it shouldn't give any opportunity for any men to look inside so basically they should live in a box. We want them to be inside their homes, not nowhere else is a space that is

Good for women, that nowhere is better than their home for women, and the Taliban foot soldiers and members and leaders have said this, that the best place for a woman is their home, but also in that home they are not allowed to have windows if they can, if other people can face them, if men can face them. Then they had, they issued the criminal code in which there were many shocking articles and provisions. For example, according to this criminal code, the punishment for harming an animal is more than domestic violence. For example, in this criminal code, we know that if a woman is complaining about domestic violence, unless there are visible, you know, broken bones and scars and injuries that she cannot, that it doesn't count, it doesn't matter. That was the most recent one before the law that they issued about the principles of separation of spouses, which is another shocking, extremely disturbing document which legalizes, for example, child marriage. It has a provision that says that a virgin young girl's silence can be interpreted as positive responsibility. for marriage or as agreement for marriage, but this virgin young girl, when she hits puberty, can go to the court and demand for divorce. Later on, if her silence didn't mean that she was in agreement with the marriage, and then there are so many obstacles towards that divorce, obviously, which makes it impossible. Or there is this other shocking provision in that... principle that if a woman's husband goes missing unless she is a hundred percent sure that the husband is dead she will have to wait for all men of her husband's age that are among relatives and friends to die before she can go get married. So these are the different ways that the Taliban are sending this message to women, that their lives, their freedom, their dignity does not matter. And the best thing that they could see for women happening is to die, basically. That would be the ideal situation for the Taliban if all women died. And I was talking to one woman, a protester in northern province, and she was telling me that every time these edicts are issued or these directives come or these laws are imposed, that the men in the family are given a responsibility by the Taliban to impose them internally. So if they don't impose these, that the men can get in trouble and they can be imprisoned for a woman not. leaving the house without a male guardian, a woman leaving the house without the hijab that the Taliban defines or not abiding by any other edict. And this woman was telling me that she wouldn't be surprised that the next edicts from the Taliban would be that if a woman is pregnant with a girl and that that girl should be killed in the womb, that woman shouldn't be allowed to give birth to that child. So this is what woman...

feel. When we talk to them inside about what the impact of these edicts are on them, when they hear about them, when they are imposed, when they are out there and the Taliban leaders talk about them, this is what they feel. They feel that the Taliban have issues against their existence. that the Taliban wished that woman basically didn't exist. So it's not just about one thing or two things, the right to education or right to being in public space or this or that. It's just everything that has to do with a woman is something that the Taliban oppose. And with these three laws and directives and principles and that 132 individual ones, they have made that pretty much clear for women, that Afghanistan is not a country. for women. It's for the Taliban, for the men that agree with the Taliban, and, you know, and for the men that who are willing to impose those same edicts on the women and their families. Zabeda, you mentioned earlier in the interview, the Taliban using... women's rights as sort of like a bargaining chip with the international community and the UN sanctioning individual members or there being travel bans. But I guess the truth is that in actuality, everything that you're saying is going on, right, like within the country. And then outside of the country, if, let's say, folks want to escape or seek asylum, there's, of course, this sort of rise of right-wing governments internationally. You know, for example, in the U.S., we're seeing temporary protected status for Afghan migrants being revoked. And then in Europe, it's sort of like the same thing. Of course, I'm referencing earlier this week where the EU hosted a delegation. of the Taliban in Brussels. And although they're supposed to be these like travel bans and whatnot and sanctions against them, they implemented, I think at least one day visas to host the Taliban delegation. And of course, the central topic of this meeting is for EU countries to deport Afghan asylum seekers who didn't qualify for asylum. There's also the Afghan consulate and Germany. And so there's sort of this dichotomy where no EU country has officially recognized the Taliban, yet they don't need to say it, but they are doing that. They are legitimizing the leadership, but centering their anti-immigration agenda rather than gendered persecution becoming any sort of discussion factor. How do you interpret this dichotomy is the way to address the situation in Afanistan, to not engage with Taliban leaders, or does engaging legitimize extreme repressive rule that they're implementing?

Sure. I want to start by saying that not the 20 years of intervention of the occupation of the international community in Afghanistan was about women's rights. Not any other intervention they ever had had anything to do with women's rights. They just use our rights to glorify their military intervention in Afghanistan. That's why... we are where we are today. That's why they are bending over backwards for the Taliban to appease them and to bring them to conversations. Let's not forget that in the last Doha meeting, the Taliban, the women were excluded from the conversations at the demand of the Taliban. The UN agreed with the Taliban to remove women from the table so that the Taliban could discuss their priorities. So it's not just that the Taliban hate women of Afghanistan. It's also the international community doesn't really care about the women of Afghanistan or our rights or the dignity of the dignity of women of Afghanistan. That message has been very clear. As a woman from Afghanistan, for me and for my colleagues, for women inside the country that I work with, we have learned this a very hard way that the international community does not care about our rights. It's not a priority for them. It's not in their agenda. The main agenda for them, as they have said it many, many times, is political inclusion of the Taliban, pragmatic engagement with them so that they can be brought back. integrated with the international community. And it looks like, and we have seen it, that the international community will do anything possible to make that happen. Let's remember that it was not the Taliban that said we have changed. The Taliban from day one said we have not changed. They said that we don't believe in women's education. We don't believe in women's rights. It was the international community. It was Western governments that came up with this. titled Taliban 2.1 and they promoted it and they more than the Taliban said that the Taliban have changed. In fact, there were so many times that the Taliban said, no, we haven't changed. This is what we fought for. We fought to put women back inside homes. We fought so that women would not go to school. We fought so that women wouldn't work. But the UN or other international organizations, governments, they were. trying to tell us otherwise. Even oppose the Taliban themselves and say, no, there's a Taliban 2.1. There are these Taliban members that we can talk to. We understand each other. They actually believe in girls' education. They divided Taliban in two separate groups of the good Taliban and the bad Taliban, and they spent four years trying to find the good Taliban. But because they never existed, all of those Taliban were aligned in what they said, and they acted by what they said. And contrary to the international community, because the international community says something, but does something opposite. The Taliban have been consistent. For 20 years, they killed women. They poisoned women in schools. They killed women journalists and activists. And when they came to power, they said, okay, now you go and stay home. You're not going to work. You're not going to study. You're not going to be a part of the society because this is what I fought for. The international community said all the right words, but in action,

were not true to their words. I think this is a major difference between why the Taliban are succeeding. They are getting everything that they want from the Taliban, including coming to the EU headquarters last week, and the international community gets nothing. And what my question to international community always is, so fine, we have learned and we have heard from you clearly that. the issues of women is not a priority to you right now, that you want to integrate the Taliban into the international committee. Please, for God's sakes, please give us one thing that the Taliban have put on the table for you that benefits you, that works for you, that's good for you. Is it security? Because there is no security in Afghanistan. There is conflict between Afghanistan and Pakistan. All the different regional countries are complaining about how Afghanistan is now a terrorist. So I think the only thing that now they have an agreement upon is to deport Afghans back to Afghanistan. And that's what they think they can work with the Taliban. And then that's what the only thing that they care about. It looks like to me because they are not transparent with us. They go sit. with Taliban and say we have a government invoice, UN, they go sit with Taliban and say we had a very constructive meeting with the Taliban. They come and sit with me and other civil society colleagues and they are like, oh, we had a constructive meeting with civil society. I don't know. I have, I fail to understand to see in what way has this been constructive to anyone or beneficial to anyone but the Taliban because it looks like to me it's just the Taliban that are getting their way. And now they have found this one thing that will benefit both of them. It's sending Afghans back to the Taliban. Taliban, the same Afghans that fled the Taliban, that fled persecution, that for sure them going to back to Afghanistan would be at that sentence. I think that the Europeans are talking to Taliban around these. They are handing over consulates to the Taliban to do exactly this, which is also breaching the security of all those who fled the Taliban and came to these countries and then their data, their information is with these consulates that's now being handed over to the Taliban. I know that over and over, all these international legal accountability mechanisms have failed people in our region. It has failed people in Iran. It has failed people in Syria. It has failed people in Gaza. And I don't think we are anything special. If the legal accountability mechanisms cannot do anything, people who are facing... genocide every day. I don't know if it will do anything for us. But it is something and I can only advocate and push for its meaningful implementation from Afghanistan to Iran to Syria to to Lebanon to Gaza. We have to do that. We have no other options. That said, I also know, and I'm very fully aware, that taking one Taliban to court is never going to give back everything that we lost in the past five years. It's also never going to be a remedy for the 20 years of brutal killing of the Taliban. There has been no accountability for 20 years of NATO's war crimes in Afghanistan.

How are we going to hold the Taliban accountable? If we are not going to hold Germany accountable for civilian harm in Afghanistan, if you are not going to hold the U.S. accountable for war crimes in Afghanistan, we can't even talk about it. We couldn't even talk about it during the 20 years. We can't even talk about it now. I will always push for... inclusive implementation of international legal accountability mechanisms in all countries to hold all criminals accountable, you know, from Israel to all others. But I also am realistic that this has not worked for our region. it may not work, it will not, most likely will not work for Afghanistan, that we can't put all of our hope in that. What I, as a woman human rights defender that works on Afghanistan truly believe in is that we, and a lot of it's out of loss of hope, is that I have to look inside. I have to see what the people are trying to do every day, to survive, to create space, to continue education for their girls, to continue to maintain some form of a civic space, and how I can help them. and how I can find international allies who actually still really do care about meaningful solidarity and channel their support towards that. So that maybe in five years, in 10 years, and 20 years, the women of Afghanistan will not be so alone in their fight that the men will stand with them, that more communities will join them, and that there will be ways to open the civic space. That's my only very hopeless, very cynical. response that I can give to you right now because I honestly I talk about international legal accountability mechanism but deep down I don't know if it will do something for us. I think we'll leave it there. Zabeda Akbar, Afanistan program manager at Faminah, an organization that supports women human rights defenders and feminist movements in the Middle East and North Africa and Asia region. That does it for today's show. Up front airs weekday mornings at 7 a.m. We post information about our topics and our guests online at kpFA.org or you can also dig through our archive of past shows. If you'd like to get in touch with us or give feedback on something you heard or suggest a segment, you can send an email to Upfront at kpFA.org. I'm Kimia Akibati, filling in for Brian Edwards Teaker, who will be back Monday.