DOJ Releases Two Hour Epstein Interview with Steve Bannon

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and drive today at discounttire.com. Let's get you taken care of. Now at McDonald's, get a $5. Chicken meal deal or a $6 McDonald's deal. They come with small fries, a soft drink, and four-piece McNuckets? We're going to need a bigger tray. Get more value with your meal deal. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Welcome to The Beat. I'm Melissa Murray in for Ari Melburgh, and we start tonight with Donald Trump's Epstein turmoil. The Department of Justice has released their final tranche of three million files related to Jeffrey Epstein, revealing more details about his cozy relationships with powerful people. The files include thousands of new text messages between Epstein and Trump ally Steve Bannon, suggesting that their known friendship was, quote, deeper, chummier, and more expansive than previously known. In the text, the two frequently discussed foreign affairs and the Trump White House. Also included in the files are about two hours of never-before-seen interview footage of Epstein, all conducted by Steve Bannon. And we know that Steve Bannon filmed Epstein for over 15 hours sometime in the years leading up to Epstein's conviction and death, an attempt to rehab Epstein's reputation. Here's Epstein talking about his first time in jail back in 2008 on charges of soliciting prostitution. I was in a place, it was called the special housing unit, which is for the roughest, toughest, meanest people. Did it strike you at the time? of the mess you had made of your life and put you in a position, are you had put yourself in that position? No. You cannot tell me sometime during that day. You did not have that conversation with yourself of how did I do this to myself? Did I find it amazing that I was there? Not amazing. I don't want to say it's not funny. I wasn't funny. Right. Not amazing. It was incredible. Incredible in what way? Incredible like how do I do this to myself? No. It's as incredible as me sitting here in this house. It's all pretty incredible. Listen to this exchange in which Steve Bannon asks Epstein if Epstein thinks that he is the devil himself. Do you think you're the devil himself? No, but I do have a good mirror. It's a serious question. I'm sorry. Do you think you're the devil himself? I don't know. Why would you say that? Because you have all the attributes. You're incredibly smart. You remember the devil is somebody knows? The devil's brilliant. You read Milton's Paradise Lost. No, the devil scares me. This is striking. Gives a rare look into Epstein's life at a time when there's almost no public footage of him speaking. Steve Bannon reportedly intended for this footage to be made into a documentary, which never came to fruition.

The files also include 5,300 documents that reference Donald Trump, including unverified claims against him, news articles, as well as emails in which he is named checked. To be very clear, Trump has not been accused of anything illegal, and he denies any wrongdoing related to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Trump is threatening to sue multiple people over this. Joining me now to discuss all of this is Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury. She is a member of the House Oversight Committee. And also with this is Nancy Erica Smith, renowned civil rights attorney who has represented numerous victims of sexual harassment. Congresswoman, let's start with you. What was your reaction to this latest release from the DOJ? Do you believe that we have everything and this is truly the final tranche? Well, we know for a fact that we do not have everything. In fact, we know the Department of Justice found over six million documents that were considered responsive not only to the Epstein Files Transparency Act, but to the subpoena that they have not yet responded to in full. And so we know that DOJ is not compliant with the law. They are failing to comply with our subpoena. We know that they're intentionally withholding work product that implicates the individuals that were being investigated. by Department of Justice, including potential co-conspirators. And we know that Todd Blanche went on national television on Friday morning and tried to tell the American people, don't believe your eyes. We're going to show you a bunch of documents, but there's nobody in them. Well, Donald Trump is not only in 5,300 documents. He is named tens of thousands of times in these documents. So this is not nearly over, and there are 37 individuals directly tied to Donald Trump referenced in these documents, including his... wife, including Howard Lutnick, including Elon Musk, and we have a lot of investigating to do ahead of us. Nancy, Congress has lots of investigating to do, but one thing that we do know is that in addition to all the things the Congresswoman referenced, DOJ was also pretty careless in their redactions, reportedly exposing the identities of many of the individuals who are victims of Jeffrey Epstein, about 43 women. And among those revelations include dozens of nude photographs. How do you respond to this, given the concerns that the victims had about their identities being made public? Well, it's definitely retramatized the victims. It's disgusting. I don't believe it was careless. I believe it was deliberate. I believe that... They're getting what they want. Some of the victims are saying, stop, stop releasing the files. They violated the law and didn't release these files on time, claiming that they were protecting the victims. They have never been protecting the victims. They haven't been protecting the victims since the 32 count indictment in 2008. They've never protected the victims. This is not careless. This is deliberate, deliberate retramatizing victims to shut them up, to shut this down.

I make of it that we don't have a Department of Justice anymore. Donald Trump has turned the Department of Justice, which represents us, the people of America, into his personal law firm. I mean, Todd Blanche was his personal lawyer. Todd Blanche made the incredible statement that they weren't going to investigate many of the claims in the files, particularly about Trump, because they were unfounded. How do you know they're unfounded? if you don't investigate them. That's the most stupid statement. And I'd like to mention that the Congresswoman talked about the safety of these women. These women should be provided protection now. We know what happens to people who come after Trump, particularly women who come after Trump. These poor women are out there now with the maga mob potentially coming after them, doxing them, or making them afraid. And we also know from the files that Epstein used to say, bad things will happen to you if you. tell to 14-year-olds, 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds, 17-year-olds. This is so outrageous and to be protecting Trump as if we need more evidence. He has been found guilty in a civil court of rape. 25-plus women have accused him of abuse. His wife testified that he raped her. He owned a modeling agency. He owned a teen beauty pageant. He admitted grabbing women by the genitals. He paid off a porn star. And we're supposed to be surprised. We know that he was a best friend of Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein had his picture in his house. And all these files just repeat what we know. And the DOJ, rather than... picking up the 32-count indictment and finding out who the co-conspirators were, and that indictment talks about co-conspirators. Rather than doing that, they're covering up for Donald Trump. It's not our DOJ anymore, which is really scary. All right. We will have more on this as the story develops Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury and Nancy Erica Smith. Thank you so much for getting us started tonight. As a law professor, I feel I have to note that as we report out this story, it must be said that being mentioned in these files does not necessarily mean that someone is implicated in the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein. So just want to make that very clear. Coming up, though, the public backlash to ICE erupts at the Grammys. Also, we'll have a live interview with the Democrat who just flipped a Trump seat in Ruby Red, Texas. But first, iconic journalist Marty Barron on Trump's unprecedented assault on the First Amendment. We are back in just 90 seconds.

That is a Grammy that every artist wants, almost as much as Trump wants Greenland, which makes sense. I mean, because Epstein's island is gone. Grammy's host Trevor Noah apparently touched a nerve with his joke about Donald Trump last night. Trump has now threatened legal action against the comedian. The president's threat to sue Trevor Noah comes just gays after the unprecedented arrests of Don Lemon and fellow independent journalist Georgia Fort. Both were released from custody on Friday and have vowed to fight the charges against them. Take a listen. The amendment that I believe is the bedrock of our democracy, and that is the first amendment. Freedom of speech. freedom of the press, freedom to peaceably assemble, all of those things. This encapsulates all of that. This is not a game. If you look at any tyranny or any autocracy, any sort of dictatorship, the first thing they do is they get rid of the media. They try to silence the media. Meanwhile, reaction to these events is pouring in from politicians, artists, and activists all sounding the alarm about Trump's escalating war on the First Amendment. There's no legitimacy, no basis to Don Lemon's arrests, no basis to the arrest of the other journalists. All journalists need to be concerned. The arrest of Don Lemon doing his journalistic duty. Is one page more out of an authoritarian playbook? And the American people are not going to stand for it. When journalists aren't getting arrested, you all better be afraid. Joining me now is the esteemed veteran journalist, Marty Barron, retired executive editor for the Washington Post. Marty, what's your reaction to the arrests of these two independent journalists? Well, I'm very concerned about it. It's really unprecedented, and I think it's an effort to really criminalize some common practices in journalism. When you're interviewing somebody, you can't call that that you're trying to obstruct them or intimidate them. Just because you are aware of a protest in advance, we're aware of a lot of things in advance, doesn't make you a co-conspirator. So a lot of the language that has been used by the Department of Justice in this indictment, I think, is a gross distortion and exaggeration and really a dangerous attempt to criminalize journalistic practices. Marty, is it especially significant that these are independent journalists who don't have the backing of major news organizations behind them to defend these charges going forward? Well, probably so. I mean, I think that the administration is probably looking for someone they can more easily target. Independent journalists don't have the resources that journalists who work for large news organizations like The New York Times or the Washington Post or the major networks have. So, you know, Donald Trump has always brought suits against people with the intent of...

saddling them with enormous costs. And he said in the past that he doesn't care, actually, whether he wins or loses. He just wants them to suffer for the litigation that he's bringing against them. And so I think that's part of it here. But also, of course, I think he believes or he's perceived Don Lemon as a political enemy of his. And one of the things that this Department of Justice is doing is trying to... punish the perceived political enemies of Donald Trump. So speaking of this administration, Deputy Attorney General Dot Lange implied yesterday that the arrests of Lemon and Fort were to protect freedom of religion. And indeed, the two are being charged under the Face Act, which is usually used to target those who are obstructing the entrances to abortion clinics. But it also has a provision for those who obstruct religious services. Take a listen here to what he had to say. Nobody in this country should feel comfortable storming into a church while it's ongoing and disrupting that church service and thinking that we're just going to stand by and let that happen because there is a statute that does not allow that to happen. It doesn't matter if you happen to be a former CNN journalist. It doesn't matter if you're a rioter. It doesn't matter if you think you're peacefully protesting. You are not allowed to do that. So, Marty, I don't need to tell you that freedom of religion is just one of the rights that the First Amendment protects, also included in the First Amendment is freedom of the press and freedom of assembly. Is it especially telling that Todd Blanche is emphasizing only one aspect of the First Amendment here? Well, look, I mean, people do have the right to freely worship, and I think that should be very much respected. I think it's important in this regard to remember that Don Lemon was, he didn't organize the protest. He covered the protest. He followed them in. Yes, he knew about it in advance, but a lot of times journalists know about events well in advance. I think that, you know, he's trying to conflate a lot of different things here and make it seem like Don Lemon's purpose was to disrupt this worship service. Certainly the activists intended to, they said so quite openly. But for Don Lemon and Georgia Fort, the other journalist who was indicted, they were trying really just to cover this, and that's what they did. So this is a moment for journalism. What do you think that journalists should be doing right now to protect their livelihoods, protect the freedom of the press? Is there room here to maneuver or are we sliding and crossing the Rubicon? Well, I think what we've seen is a real escalation in Donald Trump's attacks on the press. You know, he started his career by denigrating the press, dehumanizing them, calling them garbage. Then he tried to label the press as traitors, as enemies of the people.

Then they were subjected to baseless lawsuits. Then they threatened their core businesses by like the licenses of stations affiliated with the major networks. More recently, in January, they raided the home of a journalist for the Washington Post. That was unprecedented the first time that's ever happened in a national security investigation. And now we have this instance where reporters are being arrested for covering a news event. is unprecedented too. I mean, there are times where journalists have been arrested for so-called trespassing. That's been done at the state or local level, not by the Department of Justice. And almost always, those cases fail. So what we're seeing is an extraordinary escalation and the administration's attacks on the press. What can we do? Well, first of all, we have to keep doing our jobs. We can't be intimidated by this. I think the intent here is to intimidate the press to prevent them from doing their jobs. So we have to keep doing our jobs. And certainly we have to defend ourselves vigorously. And I think the press overall needs to come together and support each other in that regard. All right, Marty Barron, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Thank you. Okay. A quick programming note tonight, independent journalist Georgia Ford will be joining Rachel Maddow. She actually recorded the moment federal agents showed up at her door. She will join Rachel tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on MS Now. Later, how a Democrat stunned the political world this weekend, flipping a Trump district in Ruby Red, Texas. He will be live right here on the beat. Also ahead, explosive revelations about presidential grift, the Trump family, and a half-billion-dollar crypto deal in the Mideast. Plus, pressure on Trump's immigration agenda, from new court losses to a broader backlash. That's all up next. Eyes out. We're not savage. We're not animals. We're not aliens. We are humans and we are Americans. Now to the growing pushback to Trump's immigration crackdown from the corpse to street protests to the wider culture. At the Grammys last night, many musicians were wearing these ice-out pins, and many more were speaking out. Take a listen. No one is illegal on stolen land. I'm up here as a granddaughter of an immigrant. I wouldn't be here.

Yeah, I'm a product of bravery and I think those people deserve to be celebrated. We're not savage, we're not animals, we're not aliens, we are humans and we are Americans. Eyes out. Saturday Night Live also landed some blows, lampooning ice with Pete Davidson playing border czar, Tom Homan. Take a look. Now, who could tell me why we're here in Minneapolis? Pass. No, can't pass. Come on, guys. What are we doing in Minneapolis? This could be wrong, but Army? Close. That's close. We're here to detain and deport illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. That is literally the first I'm hearing of that. Meanwhile, the New York Times is reporting that federal courts are undercutting Trump's mass deportation program. Quote, in case after case, federal judges have found that the Trump administration has been ignoring longstanding legal interpretations that mandate the release of many people who are taken into immigration custody if they post a bond. Also today, five-year-old Liam Ramos and his father, Adrian, are back home in Minnesota, this after a federal judge ordered their release from ICE custody. Liam Ramos's detention sparked national outrage after images of the preschoolers surrounded by officers went viral. In the order, the judge blasted the Trump administration for its, quote, ill-conceived and incompetently implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas, apparently even if it requires traumatizing children. Now, a new flashpoint is emerging. DHS is apparently scouting dozens of warehouses with plans to retrofit them into ICE detention centers. It's all sparking new protests, according to Axios reporting. Joining me now to talk about all of this is Molly Zhang Fast, contributing writer for the New York Times, MS Now political analysts, and hosts of the Fast Politics Podcast. Molly, what was your reaction to what you saw on the Grammys? Because it was such a contrast to the Golden Globes where people were much more closed-lipped. Yeah, well, there have been two murders of American citizens since then. And I think, look,

We're talking about guardrails here. That's what we're really talking about. And public outrage may be the last guardrail that is protecting Americans from whatever this administration wants to do. And so in a world where the mainstream media is so small, having celebrities out there raising awareness might be the difference between keeping our democracy and not. So the Trump administration seemed to have bent a little bit to that public pressure. So over the weekend, it was announced that there would be an investigation into Alex Preti's death. I'm not exactly clear who's going to be doing that investigation. But it seemed like they were ready to make a pivot. Do you think that pivot's held? Well, I think what's important is like if you think about Liam, right, the little boy in the blue hat and the backpack and the backpack, that kid, there are many other kids that were not wearing. hats, you know, in that article about Liam in The Times, it talks about the person from the school, the principal from the school says, in fact, there are a bunch of other kids from that school that are in detention. So we know, this is the kid we know about. And I think it's really important to realize, like, the reason that kid got released was because of the public outcry. And the reason that any of this stops is going to be because of public outcry. And the reason that it's going to keep going is because people are asleep or decide the politics is too upsetting and they don't want to focus on it. And so I think that the more we have celebrities with ice outpins and the more we have them talking about the stakes of what's happening, the better it is. And again, there's a reason that Steve Bannon and. Bright Bart had this thing that, you know, they just desperately wanted to get in the culture because they felt that politics was downstream of culture. That's because the culture does in some ways dictate where the country goes. Let's talk about the culture. Let's play another bit from SNL. This one is mocking the idea that Tom Homan, Bordersar, is actually a softer side of ice, if you will. Let's roll that. Look, I'm Tom Homan, okay? Hey, I am. I'm the separating families at the border guy. I'm the on film taking a $50,000 bribe guy, and y'all are making me look like the upstanding reasonable adult in the room. That crazy! I mean, that is the question, Molly. Is Tom Homan the vibe shift the administration needs right now? Well, and, you know, it's a really good question. And I think it's really important to realize, like, this administration has really scary stuff planned. Yeah. Because they're going to buy warehouses where they're going to put people in them. Tom Homan has done. some really scary stuff, too. Like the family separation policy was inhuman. It was inhuman. And also, Tom Homan took $50,000 in a comma ban. Allegedly. Allegedly. Right. Which was an investigation on something else. He just got swept into it, which is incredible. And no, look, I think that.

This administration has a lot of really scary plans. And I think that the more people hear about them, the more they're going to be like, this is not the country. You know, it's 2025 in America, 26, sorry, in America. And this is just not how any of this is supposed to work. So to the scarier stuff that may be coming down the pike, the Washington Post is reporting that despite the release of Liam Ramos data shows ICE is detaining more kids. Quote, immigration authorities are increasingly ensnaring the young. and most vulnerable lives in President Donald Trump's effort to deport massive numbers of undocumented immigrants. Could this be the flashpoint if we just see scads of children being rounded up? Right. And I think what's important here is there are a lot of kids in detention we don't know about. There's a lot we don't know about. And part of that is because there isn't the same kind of reporting there was in 2016. We don't have the fulsome mainstream media that we used to. And so we're not getting all the information that we can. All right. That was super uplifting. Yeah, sorry. But it's true. I mean, there's a reason that oligarchs and authoritarian don't like mainstream media. It's because they don't want that reporting out there. All right. Molly Jong-Fast, thank you so much for weighing in on all of this. Still ahead. Trump's latest autocratic push to remake Washington, D.C. in his gilded image. But first, new lessons from a Democrat that pulled off an upset victory in Deep Red, Texas. He joins me live next.

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and drive today at discounttire.com. Let's get you taken care of. Normally in these ads, you'd expect someone like me to ask you to buy something. But I want to ask you to do something different. I'm Dave Ferenthalen, and I'm a reporter for the New York Times. I'm an investigative reporter, which means that I follow the money, inside of government and outside of government. The point of my job is to find things people are trying to hide. It involves talking to lots of people. It involves looking through lots and lots of documents. And if there weren't folks like me to go beyond the surface, to understand who is really shaping what the government does, the public will be left in the dark about what the government's doing with your tax money, what the government's doing to you through regulations and spending. If you're like me and you think this kind of journalism is important, seek out a news source that does firsthand fact-based reporting. If that's the New York Times, thank you. If that's your local paper, that's great too, because where you get your information matters.

Have you ever wanted to share your opinions with MS Now about our TV programs, podcasts, live events, and more? Now's your chance to have your voice heard. Join the MSNow Insights community at MS. Now slash insights. This isn't red versus blue. This is right versus wrong. This is about public school funding. This is about helping working folks. This is about lowering costs. This is about everyday working folks. That was Texas state Senator-elect Taylor Rummett, a Democrat who just won a special election in Deep Red Tarrant County. That's in the Fort Worth suburbs. His 14-point margin of victory is especially stunning since it was in a district that Donald Trump won by 17 points in 2024. Donald Trump tried to distance himself from the race, but he is on record as publicly endorsing the Republican Challenger. Take a listen, though. If somebody ran where? In Texas, a special election for legislators. The ninth state senate seat. I'm not involved in that. That's a local Texas race. You mean I won by 17? You did. And this person lost. Things like that happen. I mean, I know there's a race going there. And it's too bad. Joining me now is the winner of that local Texas rate. State Senator-elect Taylor Rummitt. He is also an Air Force veteran and a former union president. Welcome. You are the man of the hour. But, well, what is your advice to other Democrats who are running in red districts or swing districts since you apparently have the touch here? Well, my advice doesn't just apply to Democrats. Anyone trying to serve and get elected You got to do the work. You got to go and meet the folks where they're at, have the conversations by first listening and then learning the issues because that's what a true leader should do. Well, Republican Governor Ron DeSantis thinks that this is a great strategy. He had this to say about your win. Quote, a swing of this magnitude is not something that can be dismissed. Republicans should be clear-eyed about the political environment heading into the midterms. Is Ron DeSantis right? Is your election a harbinger of things to come for the Republicans in the midterms, especially if the Democrats take your advice to get on the ground and figure out what the people really want and need? That's dependent on who's willing to do the work and who's willing to keep working folks at the forefront of their campaign. Really, we have people here when I was knocking doors and having conversations with voters. there is a need for lowering costs. People are struggling out here. Having two or three jobs just to make ends meet, it's not going to work. People are upset, and people are even choosing between their medical treatment and rent and food. And then we also have public schools right here in this great state suffering. The public schools need help, and we got a voucher scam that's being implemented. And it's going to be bad. Anytime public dollars go to private institutions, it's not good.

So all of that is not good. What's also not good in the great state of Texas is the Republican effort at the president's insistence to launch an unorthodox mid-cycle redistricting effort that's aimed at consolidating Republican power in the state, but also in the House of Representatives. Those are structural impediments that are going to make it hard for Texas Democrats going forward. Is your on-the-ground approach something that can overcome even those kinds of structural distortions? I think only time will tell about that. I think so. What I really think is they should focus on, again, property taxes, lowering the cost of things. That right there is going to be the best thing they could do to actually help folks and win elections because people out here struggling. One person who was not struggling in this season was your opponent who outspent to you, according to Axios, 10 to 1. What lessons can you offer other Democrats who are facing GOP candidates with substantial financial advantages and deep pockets? Well, first thing I would say is, yes, I got spent roughly 10 to 1. I got way outspent. But the trust you can build by doing the work. that is priceless, the trust in the community. And so you can go against any amount of money. Money doesn't replace relationships. It cannot buy elections. This was proof of that. Is this just like going out and just meeting people, like going door to door? I mean, or did you have longstanding ties as a union organizer that kind of laid the groundwork for you? I mean, can anyone do this? Or did you already have a significant advantage because of your prior work? Well, that's a great question. I would say that one thing I would like to point out is my team was based right here, mostly in the Senate district, if not in Tarr County. I think who knows the place best than the people who live at work and try and thrive here. So that to me was a point that I wanted to make sure we talked about because, you know, having that local connection, nothing can replace that. I mean, again, you could spend a lot of money on DC consultants and all this stuff. But of course, also to the other point, like you mentioned, yes, the unions were great partners. And I would say if anyone wants to get elected. Focus on the unions. Unions because they have the heartbeat of working folks. And I want to make sure that that's who we represent because at the end of the day, that's what I swore to serve and advocate for. It's working folks right here. All right. Senator Alec, Taylor Rummitt, thanks so much for joining us and congratulations. Thank you so much. Bye. Up next, shocking new details about the depth of the Trump grift. That's coming after this. Tonight, there are brand new revelations that raise serious questions about the depth of Donald Trump's second term grift.

The Wall Street Journal reports that just four days before Trump's second inauguration, representatives of an Abu Dhabi Royal, whom the journal refers to as, quote, spy chic, secretly brought a massive 49% stake in the Trump family's crypto company. The sale reportedly involved an upfront payment of half of the purchase price, steering almost $200 million to Trump family entities. Some of that money is, according to the journal, also flowing to entities affiliated with the family of Steve Witkoff, a co-founder of Trump's crypto company, who, just weeks earlier, was named Special Envoy to the Middle East. Months later, the administration agreed to give the UAE access to half a million of the most advanced AI chips each year. The crypto company says that neither Trump nor Steve Witkoff were involved in the deal. The journal describes all of this as unprecedented. But Trump officials say that this is business as usual. Take a listen. There's nothing unprecedented about the Trump organization going out and trying to make investment. Ty Cobb, who served as President Trump's lawyer during the first administration, said, quote, my advice as an ethics lawyer would have been clear, you don't do business deals with the families of the leaders of foreign countries. It taints American foreign policy. How do you respond to Mr. Cobb? I don't have a response to that guy. Meanwhile, Democrats are sounding the alarm. The White House has become a nonstop corruption machine. Never ever before in the history of the country has the President of the United States so openly, so brazenly, so consistently work to use the immense power of the presidency to enrich himself. That is corruption. Those are the elements of a bribe. This is potentially criminal conduct. Joining me now is Leah Lippman, a law professor at the University of Michigan. She also happens to be my co-host on the strict scrutiny podcast. Leah, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche says that there's nothing unprecedented about this. What's your take? President Jimmy Carter would like a word. President Carter put his peanut farm in a blind trust in order to avoid any appearance of impropriety while he was president. And it was literally peanuts. Exactly, literally peanuts. Peanuts in comparison to the hundreds of millions of dollars that immediately went to the Trump family crypto company after this official, this foreign official who's associated with the national security apparatus of a foreign government. sends all of this money to the Trump family and then receives, you know, the country in exchange, these high-value AI chips. It's astonishing. So it's unprecedented. You know, there's no other way of describing it.

All right. So the Washington Post had this headline that was written a few days after this previously unreported deal came to light. It reads, quote, Trump promotes meme coin, raising ethics issues as value soars. Again, there have been so many efforts in the second administration to check the administration's actions on immigration and government spending. But there's been very little attention and certainly very little litigation with regard to these ethical questions. Is there anything that can be done through the courts? And if there is, why aren't we seeing more of it right now? I think it's difficult to address this through litigation because usually the sorts of public corruption is handled by. federal prosecutors. But, of course, the Trump administration has largely demolished the public corruption units and the foreign corruption units within the Department of Justice. And that's no accident. Of course, this greases the wheels for them to engage in more dealmaking. So I think they have really undermined the enforcement mechanisms that are available for addressing this kind of public corruption. And that has just freed them to engage in more of these transactions. And I think at this point, it starts to look so normal. I mean, we are just accustomed. to seeing these stories of President Trump pardoned someone who also purchased a stake in the Trump family crypto company. You know, these stories are just relentless. And I think they are using this by doing it out in the open to normalize the conduct and then say, of course, there's nothing to see here. Like, we admit it. Well, there are some people who are pushing back and weirdly, it's actually coming from within the GOP. Take a listen to former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene weighing in on this. MAGA is, I think people are realizing it was all a lie. It was a big lie for the people. What MAGA is really serving in this administration, who they're serving is their big donors. So they're serving their big donors. And what other ways have we seen the big donors getting served at the expense of the populist message that actually fueled his White House run in 2024? I mean, it would be impossible to list all of the ways. Think about some of the sweetheart deals that corporations have gotten. You know, the Federal Trade Commission settled with Amazon for an amount that, you know, was substantially less than it might otherwise in the allegations that Amazon was basically surreptitiously enrolling some people in a program. And of course, Jeff Bezos, you know, is behind partially the big Melania documentary. And so you have people forking over money to the Trump administration and getting these sweet. Wheatheart deals from the government in exchange. And that's just one example. You know, Elon Musk Company have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in government contracts. And of course, he poured in a lot of money to the cause of electing Donald Trump. And his company is another of the companies that settled with Donald Trump over frivolous litigation. So there, too, that looks like pay to play. Well, can we talk about the documentary? When you mentioned that, I really hit a nerve with me. Did you see it this weekend? You know, I didn't. So critics are not particularly excited about it, but it is reportedly earning Mrs. Trump millions from Amazon. Is this part of this broader pattern, like where the family as well as the people around them are also perhaps benefiting from the association with the president?

Absolutely. I mean, you know, the Trump family is certainly benefiting. You know, here you have Melania. You know, it was Eric Trump that supposedly secured this deal that actually finalized the investment of the UAE foreign official, you know, in the Trump family crypto company. So it's a very cozy network of people. And this was the way they ran things in the first Trump administration as well with his family maintaining stakes in the hotels and restaurant chains. Again, that corruption scheme just looks. child play compared to what they are doing now. All right, Leah Lippman, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I will see you on the podcast. The rest of you, we will be right back. Listen to your favorite MS Now shows anytime as a podcast. Enjoying new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House, and the Rachel Maddo Show. Every small D. Democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell, the beat with Ari Melburgh, the weeknight, and more. On the go, wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening to all of your favorite shows, subscribe to MS Now Premium on Apple Podcasts.

We concluded tonight with an important update on Donald Trump's edifice complex. The president is apparently pushing plans to build a 250-foot independence arch, despite objections from architectural experts. Those experts warned that a monument of that size would dwarf the White House and the Lincoln Memorial. All of this, of course, follows Trump's demolition of the White House's East Wing for his $400 million ballroom, as well as his plans to renovate the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Center to which he recently attached his own name. All of this, just more examples of bulldozing history to promote the Trump agenda himself. That does it for me. The weeknight is up next. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills first hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.