MAGA & Fox News Voices Pummel Trump's Iran Deal

Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast. That's called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to seven billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. I'm Melissa Murray, in for Ari Melburgh, and tonight we start with Donald Trump under fire from Republicans and Democrats alike over his deal with the Iran to end the war in that country. Today, U.S. officials released the text of the Memorandum of Understanding with Iran. Officials are set to sign it on Friday, and the MOU would reopen the Strait of Hormuz. It would end hostilities, and it would grant Iran the following concessions. $300 billion that would be distributed to that country through an investment fund. There is also a plan to end economic sanctions. There's also the unfreezing of Iranian assets. Plus, there will be waivers that allow Iran to sell oil on the global market. Here's the kicker. The MOU would return everything to the nuclear quote-unquote status quo. That means Iran's stance on its nuclear program remains virtually unchanged after a war that was ostensibly fought to limit Iran's potential as a nuclear threat in the region. Critics from the left and the right say that this deal strengthens Iran while the United States retreats without any tangible gains, despite four months of war, billions of dollars spent and 13 American lives lost. Top MAGA and Fox News figures are not being shy about weighing in. Take a listen.

They're better off than they were before the hostilities began. There's also a lot of talk about this $300 billion fund that they may soon have access to. Nobody is disputing that that is a thing. I hate to say this. In this deal, the biggest loser is the United States and India. And you negotiate from strength. You don't give people money. I will say that the early returns do not look wildly promising. at this point. America has given up all of its leverage in this situation. Let's be very clear. This is the vice president's deal. It does not have support. The regime has not changed. They're just richer. I do have concerns about the memorandum of understanding. I didn't believe it. I thought somebody was spoofing me. I left you were homeschooled by a day drinker. No one's confident that Iran's going to do anything. How about the guys and gals that Bled and died on our country's behalf? Well, they're fine. I didn't see that in MOU. This doesn't feel like a victory. That's not all. At the conservative judge report, the headlines are absolutely scathing. Iran declares total victory. Iran will control Hermuse. America in retreat. The Influential Financial Times writes, quote, Humiliation. Donald Trump battles claims his Iran deal is worse than Obama's. And here's the cover of Rupert Murdoch's New York Post, Love Bomb, with the image of a burning American flag. At a press conference in France today, President Trump prompted even more criticism after striking an oddly soft tone on the status of Iran's nuclear program, missiles in the Middle East, and Iranian regime change. Take a listen. Iran's position has always been that their nuclear program was for civilian purposes. It is a little hard, though, when you say that somebody wants it, other people have it, other adjoining states have it, and you're not letting them have it for purposes of electricity and things like that. They're going to let Saudi Arabia have missiles, but they can't have them? Yes, sir. Oh, Kent doesn't work that way, you know? But they have a new group of leaders that I think is... Actually, I think they're smarter. I think they're very smart. I think they're far less radicalized. And I think they're really good. They love their country.

All right. So, Molly, is this just sour grapes from someone who just lost his reelection bid because of the president? Or is this real talk? No. So this, he's part of the Yolo caucus, the group of Republican senators. And there are three of them who lost their Senate primaries because Trump was like. You know, you were insufficiently loyal to me, whatever that looks like. But this guy has really been through it, too. Remember, he's a doctor who voted for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. I mean, he's undone his life's work. But, yeah, no, I think he feel, I think he's speaking. the truth, which a lot of Republicans don't usually do or don't usually feel they can. And there should be a larger question about why that is and why he now feels liberated to say what everyone else who is got eyes is saying. You know who also feels liberated, Jason? A president who also? Had a deal with Iran. Let's take a listen. I seem to remember. Yeah. Not so long ago we had a deal with Iran. Let's take a listen to what President Obama had to say earlier this week. It is doubtful that any agreement that arises is going to be significantly different or a significant improvement from the deal that we had in the first place. And... had worked for, um, for a long stretch of time, uh, before we, the United States pulled out of it. Uh, facts. That was a very careful way for, I wish he had the key and peel anger translator with him. We would just say, this is obviously garbage. This is foolish. And, and I want to highlight this because this is key. While everybody is talking about their egos and being bruised out, where people died. Americans died. School children died in Iran. People are sick. People will not have clean water for weeks and weeks and months and months. So it's not just, I think we always have to remember, this is not just bruised American pride and Jared Kushner are not getting everything he wants. People have died. Whole generations and communities have been destroyed by this. And all they can talk about is whether or not somebody had a good or a better deal. And that's part of what makes this so cold and grotesque and offensive that we can engage in these kinds of ridiculous flights of fantasy. And no one wins. And the people who suffer. Don't have a voice. So, Molly, Jason Rees is a really interesting point. This is likely to have radicalized some individuals in Iran. And it seems like in the short term, you know, maybe gas prices will go down and maybe the president reaps the benefits of that in the midterm elections. But are we paying a longer price down the road for what all of this will ultimately engender?

Yeah, we may also still be paying that price even sooner than that. Like, there's no way to put this back in the bottle. We have a younger Ayatola. I mean, Trump, you know, Trump said a lot of stuff today after that long trip, and he sounded very tired. And he said, you know, we have this better Ayatollah. The Iatollah is younger, angrier, and by all assurances, much more radicalized. His father was killed in his strikes. Yes. Yes. And so I think that. I don't know that Trump understands what he has wrought here. And it's, and I think we're, I think. It's quite scary this moment we're in. If, you know, if this is the movie captioned, this time, it's personal, right? Like now it's not just a political argument, but also our gas prices aren't going to go down because one of the things that's unclear in this sort of phony memorandum of understanding, which it's going to be 60 more days to negotiate, is Iran may still be able to charge fees at the end of this. So they're actually going to be making more money and our gas prices are not going to go down, certainly not by the midterms. Fines and fees may apply. Yeah. Yeah, we will find out. All right. Jason. and Molly, please stay with me. Up next, Trump continues to stoke chaos this time on Capitol Hill in a new push to limit voting rights. Plus, what late-night hosts are saying about his neon-green reflecting pool. And by the end of the hour, the Obama aide behind this iconic Amazing Grace speech will come on and we will talk about it as we count down to the opening of the Obama Presidential Library. We are back in just 90 seconds.

Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast. That's called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard-Hytrullo-pre-filled syringe, which contains FGartigamudalpha and highlaronidase QVC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's My Treatment, My Way. Visit Vivgardmyway.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T-M-Way.com. And talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrullo, brought to you by Argenics. President Trump is under fire today for forcing the delay of a critical hearing on his nominee to be Director of National Intelligence. The nominee, SDNY Chief Jay Clayton, was set to appear before lawmakers this afternoon. But now, Trump hopes to pressure Congress to first pass his controversial voter identification bill, the Save America Act. In a post on Truth Social that was issued early this morning, Trump wrote, quote, I don't want to take Jay Clayton away from the great job he is doing until Jamie McDonald, that is his pick to replace Jay Clayton, is in place. Therefore, to add a slight bit of intrigue, I will not approve FISA without the Save America Act going along with it. Let's be clear here. The president is threatening to block an extension of the Crucial Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act unless it is paired with his voter bill, a huge national security gamble. Trump's zeal to enact the SAVE Act is further perpetuating his continued false claims of rampant voter fraud. As numerous studies have found, quote, non-citizen voting, which is already illegal and carries severe penalties, is rare. And in addition to addressing the non-existent problem of rampant voter fraud, experts say that if enacted, the SAVE Act would, quote, block millions of eligible Americans from voting.

But it's not just that the president is holding national security hostage while he attempts to rejigger voting laws in advance of a crucial midterm election, one in which his party is expected to take some losses. It is also that the president doesn't actually have the authority to stop a congressional hearing. Only Congress can do that. But what the president can and did do is demand that Jay Clayton, the nominee, not show up for the scheduled hearing, leaving Republican leaders with no choice but to cancel. All of this now means that Bill Pulte, whose Trump's initial picked to serve as Director of National Intelligence, he's now serving as acting director of national intelligence, is going to assume that position on a temporary basis starting on Friday. Trump faced immediate backlash from both sides of the aisle when he originally tapped Bill Pulte for this very sensitive post. Lawmakers slammed Bill Pulte's lack of experience and his fealty to Trump. Now Bill Pulte's position as acting director of national intelligence has renewed fears that Trump will use Bill Pulte to go after his enemies in the run-up to the midterm elections. and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are clearly frustrated with today's presidential power play. Take a listen. A president that is treating our national security with complete disdain. Do we want a sycophant accessing DNI material or do we want a top person like Jay Clayton in a job? He wants Bill Pulte in place because he wants him to do his political bidding. Am I getting that correct? That's 100% what is happening. I'm concerned that this slows down the renewal of FISA, which is vital to our national security. We will never pass the Save Act, never. Have you spoken in a pet of all these issues together? Um, no question. Back with me is Jason Johnson, politics professor at Morgan State, and MS Now political contributor. Also with us at the table is Molly Zhang Fast, contributing writer with The New York Times, MS Now Political Analyst, and the host of the Fast Politics podcast. Jason, there's a lot going on here. Susan Collins is concerned. Oh, my gosh, is she? Always. Always concerned. What do you make of this presidential standoff with Congress over the Jay Clayton nomination? If you look at health care, if you look at national security, you look at environmental agencies, there are hundreds of agencies that have been gutted after Elon Musk and Doge that have never been filled in this administration. This is part for the court. These are just the names we're hearing about, right? So this doesn't shock me at all. It also represents the fact that most of the members of Congress, certainly on the Republican side, they don't really care, right? They don't care to push enough back at these sorts of things. They don't care to say, hey, this is a huge national security concern. And really.

What concerns me, and I'm glad, you know, Polsky was like, well, I'll back off and these people are moving back and forth. Who has Trump ever nominated for anything who doesn't have total loyalty to him? Who has he ever put in any position, whether it's Tulsi Gabbard Garel or whether it's Markwayne Mullin Miller? Anyone he picks is in that Pachsh Kash Patel when he's not drinking, right? Allegedly. Anyone that Donald Trump puts in any position, right, is someone there to essentially do his bidding and attack his enemies. And so I'm not surprised by any of this. I'm not shocked by any of this. And this is far for the course. It's not just Democrats who are sounding the alarm on this. So even GOP lawmakers have admitted that this voter fraud bill, the SAVE Act, doesn't have enough votes to make it through. And they're worried that hemming up the FISA bill in order to get this pass is really using national security as a pawn at a time where we may be increasingly vulnerable. Yes. And in fact, John Thune said that. You know, the question is, will you crush the filibuster for a bill that is federalizing elections, which is, by the way, not even constitutional. So, like, that thing is going to just go right to the courts. It's going to be in the courts. I mean, I don't know. This Supreme Court we have is very, they have done a lot of wacky stuff in the name of pleasing Trump. But. even they might have problems with it. So that's why this makes no sense. And he's just putting it all together because he wants something. And this is from a true social post. So, you know, written in the night. So I just... Are they all written at night? But I just wonder, like, you know, this is not the way a government is supposed to run. And even Republicans, and remember, just like we talked about before, there is this YOLO caucus of people who... really are ready to say the truth now. So, Jason, I want you to listen to some sound from when Bill Pulte was initially named as the nominee for Director of National Security. Let's take a listen. Well, we don't need a weaponize D&I. We need professions. I see no evidence of any qualifications for that job. The one thing we know about Bill Pulte is he will do whatever Donald Trump says. This is insane. Okay, this isn't, I mean, this is someone who has no experience whatsoever in Intel. It has no experience. And he does have a, you know, reputation of being a hatchet man for the president. Jason, has the president gotten what he wanted here? He wanted Bill Pulte in this job. It was clear he was not going to get him through the Senate. Has he now figured out a way to do this? I mean, for now, right? I mean, this is failing up, right? But there are so many members of this administration who have failed up. But it doesn't matter now in this run-up to the mid-term elections. We already have the president apparently investigating Gavin Newsom, who may be a presidential rival, not even against him. But now we're going into the mid-term elections. Is it going to be really important that Bill Pulte is in this post? I don't think so. Because, look, whether Bill Pulte was going to do it.

Donald Trump was going to weaponize the DOJ somehow. Donald Trump was always going to come up. This is the Hunter Biden tactic all over again. It's also indicative. And quite frankly, I'm sure Gavin Newsom people, the people I talk to in California, like, this is great. You know how much money he can raise off of this? Because Trump was already saying two years out that I'm afraid of you. So I think the thing we have to understand that they're operating almost like. almost like a mafia state. So it doesn't matter who we change in and out of these positions. The mission is always going to be destroy the law, engage in sort of violence and attacks on whoever it is that Donald Trump doesn't like. And if you won't do that to the degree that he wants you, whether you're Pam Bondi who was qualified or Tulsi Gabbard who wasn't that qualified, I'll get rid of you. Right. So, Bali, we have a Congress and Republicans in Congress who are trying to play chess with this president and they keep getting outmaneuvered. What's their next play? You know, I think that he's going to change his mind again. A lot of times the next play is just waiting for him to get bored. Bill Pulte has not had great success with his mortgage fraud cases that he's cooked up. So it's not like this guy is some great mind being put in there who knows how it works. And I think, you know, there's something to be said for that. All right. Jason Johnson, Molly Jong-Fast. Thank you for getting us started. Later in the show, the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool turns green under Trump and becomes an instant symbol of the dreaded D.C. swamp. You know, he promised he would drain the swamp. Instead, he spent $14 million of our dollars building a new one.

Also ahead, I have a special guest to talk about the Obama Presidential Center, which is set to open tomorrow. But first, we dig into Trump's odd new praise for Iran's leaders and why nonpartisan experts are warning that President Trump lost this war. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lo here. If you haven't heard. I have a podcast that's called Literally with Roblo. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever. You get your podcasts. I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talk to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard-Hytrullo pre-filled syringe, which contains F-Gar-Tigamodalpha and High Loranidase QVC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit Vivgardmyway.com. That's V-Y-V-V-G-A-R-T-May.com. And talk to your doctor about Vivgard-Hitrullo. Brought to you by Argenics. If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then I-Excel is a right for your family. As an effective and affordable online learning program, I-Excel covers math, language arts, science, and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off Iexel membership when they sign up today at Iexel.com slash 20. Visit Ixel.com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. We return now to that breaking news on the so-called memorandum of understanding between the United States and Iran. Experts say that Iran appears to have won several major concessions from the United States. Those concessions include $300 billion in funds for rebuilding, a plan to drop sanctions and unfreeze Iranian assets, as well as waivers that would allow Iran to export oil. And in return for all of this, Iran, quote, reaffirms that it will not seek nuclear weapons. This has paused some perplexity, confusion among Hawks in the GOP caucus. They've been especially confused by the president's praise of Iran's hardline leadership. Take a listen. I think they're very smart. I think they're far less radicalized. I think they're really good. They love their country. We're dealing with people that I think are very rational people. And they were...

Nice to deal with. There was small people, smart people. They're not radicalized and they're, you know, looking to help their country. Experts are also noting how the president responded to questions about what is not in the deal. Is there any safeguard in this deal to prevent Iran from charging what they say could be fees after the 60-day extension? The thing that's going to stop them from doing that, because you can't cover everything in a document, is common sense. There's nothing enforceable in the deal itself. Is that correct? Doesn't have to be. Joining me now is Tom Nichols, staff writer for the Atlantic and Professor Emeritus of National Security Affairs at the U.S. Naval War College. Tom's latest piece in the Atlantic is called, quote, Trump does not understand the war he lost. Tom, let's start with your piece in the Atlantic. Based on what we know, did the president lose this war and how bad did he lose it? A complete capitulation, I think. If you tally up what the Iranians wanted and tally up what the Americans wanted, the Iranians achieved all of their strategic goals, starting with the most important one, which was regime survival. And the Americans achieved none of theirs. And in fact, today, you know, I'm almost sorry that I wrote the piece of day early because today the president reaffirmed. how a complete 180 on all of the American war aims. He started, you know, you had General Kane and others out there saying, we're going to eliminate Iran's missile capability. And then Trump today saying, well, you know, other people have them. How could it be fair for them not to have them? You've got to let them enrich. Other people enrich, they're going to do a little of that, you know, on and on. And he went from, this is an existentially dangerous, theocratic, you know, a group of tyrants to strong people, smart people, rational people, not radicals. He just wanted to get out. He started a war that he thought would be easy. He wanted to get out of it when it went bad. And now he's going to say whatever he has to say to try to, you know, paper over the fact that he's just pulling the rip cord and jumping out of this. Well, you make a point in your piece that this is standard issue for the president when he is. backed into a corner on something. He then sort of recomposes himself and says, like, this was never my issue in the first place, right? So here he talked about how we really needed regime change for the people of Iran. Now it seems the people of Iran are being led by, as you say, rational, sensible leaders. How are we seeing this in other parts of the deal? What else are we walking away from that were ostensibly the reasons we got into this war in the first place? Well, that's part of the problem is that The president, once regime change didn't happen, the president and his team came up with something like nine or ten different rationales for this war. But all of them flow from the fact that you saw it right on the first night of the war. This war was supposed to be about regime change. Donald Trump fully expected that he would bomb this regime into oblivion.

And then the Iranian people would somehow rise up and take power back and, you know, become a new Democratic Iran. When that didn't happen, he had to start dialing through a bunch of other rationales while we're trying to stop the nuclear program. Well, the nuclear program had already been stopped. We're trying to eliminate the missiles. We're trying to open the strait, which, of course, was open. before Trump began this war. There was simply no way to kind of rationalize this except for Trump to say, I never meant to do any of that. And that's where we are now. Right. And the straight here seems to be a really critical fulcrum around all of this. So, you know, the Strait of Hormuz and the passage of oil through that straight to the rest of the world has stymied the president for weeks now, raising gas prices. Now under the new framework in the MOU, there will be 60 days of safe passage for commercial ships that go through the strait. But after that 60 days, Iran is then authorized to begin charging fees, which is something they weren't doing before the war. Is that a huge loss and how will it impact Americans at the gas pump? It's even bigger than the price Americans might pay at the gas pump. I mean, gas is now high and it's going to stay higher than it was before the war for a while to come yet beyond any deal Trump makes. But there's a bigger problem here, which is that Trump essentially has signed off. on Iran basically owning the Strait of Hormuz, that at this point, something that was once hypothetical, and, you know, everyone who's ever worked in national security with this issue knows that every war game, every exercise included. Iran closing the strait, but it was purely hypothetical that they could do this and then we would have to somehow reopen it. The Iranians now have proven that they can do it, they will do it. And Donald Trump has said, yes, closing the straight is my red line. It's too difficult. It's too much economic damage. And so we surrender. And the Iranians have now made that point. And I don't see them giving up that leverage any time soon. And the fees, I think, will be the smallest part of it. The bigger problem is that everybody who wants to go through there and everybody in that region is now going to go direct Tehran to make their deals and accommodations and basically cut the United States out of it. And the president seems to understand that he's been backed into a corner on the street. Take a listen here. The alternative would be a worldwide depression. We run out of reserves in about four weeks. You know, there are reserves all over the world, and we would really run out. And there'll be a time when you wouldn't be able to get it, and you want to see Bedlam? He's basically saying that they had him by the collar. What did we gain from all of this? What was this for?

He really thought that he was going to collapse the Iranian regime and then walk through the streets of, you know, free Tehran while they were dedicating a statute to him. I mean, I really think that this war was only about one man's search for glory. There was no forcing function here. It's not like the Iranians were within striking distance of a bomb. The Iranians were not about to begin some big operation. There was nothing that needed, that was an approximate trigger that Trump needed to get involved with. He was on a sugar high from blowing up boats in the Caribbean and toppling the president of Venezuela. And, you know, he wasn't getting anywhere at home. His popularity was cratering. The economy was going in the wrong direction. And I think, like a lot of autocrats, he said, you know, a splendid little war in the Middle East where I emerge of the hero will be great. And now he's admitting, you know, they blackmailed me with the international economy, and I paid, and I'm paying the blackmail because I have to. You know, a lot of the points the president raised were good points. Probably should have thought of those about four months ago. Tom Nichols, thank you so much of joining us, and I recommend to everyone this piece in the Atlantic. Thanks, Tom. Coming up, a celebration in Chicago as the Obama Presidential Center is set to open tomorrow. And an Obama insider is going to join me live to reflect on some of President Obama's most compelling moments. That's after this break.

We're just hours away from the grand opening of Barack Obama's presidential center. The center, which is located in Chicago, will have a library, a museum, and recreational spaces. It will also celebrate the Obama legacy, paying tribute to the triumphs and tragedies of his two terms. One of the most moving moments of President Obama's presidency was his moving eulogy for Clementa Pinkney. Pinkney was the pastor at the Mother Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Reverend Pinckney was at the church on that day in 2015 when Dylan Roof entered the building and shot and killed Pinkney along with eight of his parishioners who were engaged in Bible study. The killings were deemed race-based hate crimes. Days later, President Obama flew to Charleston to deliver the eulogy. Reflecting on the grace extended by the families of the victims, the president broke into song. If we can find that grace, anything is possible. Yeah. If we can tap that grace, everything can change. Amazing grace. Amazing grace.

Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace. Amazing grace. That's say a A heartfelt connection with mourners that inspired everyone at that funeral, as well as the millions of Americans who grieved elsewhere. One of the president's senior advisors talked about how that moment came to be. Take a listen. He said this on the helicopter. I think if I sing, the church will sing with me. He started to explain, and he said, I don't know whether I'm going to do it, but I just wanted to warn you to that I might sing. And he said, we'll see how it feels at the time. And from the first time he started to speak, the church was clearly with him. The writer behind that immortal address, Cody Keenan, joins me after this quick break.

May we find ourselves worthy of that precious and extraordinary gift. As long as our lives endure. Yes, sir. May grace now lead them home. May God continue to shed his grace on the United States of America. Joining me now is Cody Keenan, former White House speech writing director for President Obama. Cody, that was a remarkable speech. And it seemed like the president was very much intent on emphasizing themes of unity for the whole nation in the face of an unspeakable tragedy. How did you go about crafting that? And what other themes did you want to have come through for that congregation in that moment? I wish it was that easy. You know, oddly enough, that massacre was 11 years ago today. And that kicked off 10 extraordinary days that I wrote about in my book where, you know, as a country, we're really grappling with questions of who we are and who we want to be. We just, we endured this horrific white supremacist murder of, you know, eight people in their pastor in a black church. The president at first wasn't inclined to do eulogy at all because we had done so many eulogies after mass shootings. the Congress had knocked down universal background checks just a few years earlier. And he said, you know, I don't want to just keep doing this until we do something about it. But then the families came out two days later and an extraordinary act of grace one by one, they forgave the killer on live television. And that really, I think, sparked something in the country. You didn't see the kind of recriminations they usually did after mass shooting like that. And so the president said, all right, let's go say something. And then he made it more complicated. He said, I want to talk about. I want to be frank about guns, about race, about the Confederate flag. And then why don't you wrap that all up in the concept of grace? And I was like, oh, is that all? But in the meantime, we were working on, the Supreme Court was about to lay down rulings on Obamacare and on marriage equality. So we're grappling with questions about who we are. Do we treat people who work two, three jobs as people who don't deserve health insurance? Do we treat people who... love differently than the rest of us as second-class citizens who can't get married. So all of this is coming to the four at once. My team was working on a whole bunch of speeches for any outcome of the cases. And as luck would have it, you know, we won the Obamacare case. And then the morning of the Charleston eulogy, marriage equality became a reality. And so there was this undercurrent of jubilation and real joy, not just in the West Wing, but around the country, even as we were about to go eulogize the pastor and all the people who were murdered in that church. And so Obama kind of wrapped it all up together. It was, you know, it was the first time he had ever just completely crossed out half the speech I gave him. He rewrote it in about three hours, called me back to the White House around midnight, walked me through what he changed. And then a Marine one the next morning. He said, you know, if it feels right, I might sing it. And that was not something I thought of. That is not something that a speechwriter adds to a speech. So it seems like this was a very different process than the normal speech writing fair that you were used to in the White House. How is this different from, say, the speech for the State of the Union in 2014 or even his speech when he left office? Well, a state of the union address, you just kind of endure. You know, we always try to get away from the policy laundry list, never quite made it. So you just try to tie it all together thematically. Something like a eulogy is where you can actually really.

give the country a moral direction. You can be the moral leader in the country. You can flat out say, this is right. That's wrong. And he, to his credit, you know, I think the part of my draft where he just started crossing everything out, I just said the phrase, amazing grace. He ended up taking the lyrics and creating a framework for the rest of the speech to give everybody kind of the space to say, we can change our minds here. You know, with that grace, our eyes are open now. Maybe we can see. The unique mayhem that gun violence affects our communities. Maybe we can see the pain that the Confederate flag that people still walked by in Charleston every morning stirs in some of our citizens. And it's just kind of the, I mean, it really was grace that he added to the speech. And, you know, when he said if it feels right, I might sing it, that's something that he picked up from the audience. You know, that's something that he felt in the crowd. You know, and then when the time came to it, my wife and I decided to name our daughter, Grace, mostly after him. And that kind of general sentiment, you know, that anything is possible. One of the most memorable speeches, aside from the eulogy that you helped with, was the speech commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Selma and Alabama marches. And I know you worked on this one as well. Take a listen to this snippet from it. What could be more American than what happened in this place? What greater form of patriotism is there than the belief that America is not yet finished? That we are strong enough to be self-critical. that each successive generation can look upon our imperfections and decide that it is in our power to remake this nation to more closely align with our highest ideas. This was probably one of the most frank speeches that the president gave while president around race relations and racial justice in the United States. Was it a different process? Was this, again, a model of how to articulate a moral vision and direction for the country? Or did it have different contours and take on a sense of its own? The great thing about this one is that we knew it was coming. You know, you know there's a 50th anniversary coming up, so I had a couple months to really think about it and work with him on it. We had the added bonus of two days before the speech. There was a We said, let's give this generation its marching orders. You know, we knew what we had to do 50 years ago. What does this generation have to do today? And as the president will always say, there are two competing visions at the heart of America. You know, there's one that says the strong can bully the weak, that, you know, you're only a real American if you look or act or think a certain way. And then there's a different story, which is on the side of the Obama Presidential Center, which is that it is our job as citizens to narrow the gap between... the lofty ideals of our founding and the realities of our time, so that it apply to everybody, no matter who you are, what you look like, how much money you've got, who you love, that's the task to do. And that's something that a lot of people don't feel like it's possible anymore. I see it in my students all the time. But the Obama Center is a place that makes that possible. You walk in there, you remember what's at the core of President Obama's entire career. It's that ordinary people coming together can do extraordinary things. Well, I want some of that. Cody Keenan, thank you so much for joining us tonight. And now we have some breaking news. We can now report that the president has digitally signed the memorandum of understanding with Iran. The agreement would end the war and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

There's no word yet whether the Iranians have signed the document as well. The deal has come under withering criticism from Democrats and Republicans alike, as we've discussed tonight. With that in mind, we will be right back. I'm worried because Trump said if he can't turn the water blue, he's going to turn the American flag green. That's what he's going to make. You know, he promised he would drain the swamp. Instead, he spent $14 million of our dollars building a new one. Some reflections on the reflecting pool. That does it for me. Hey, everybody. It's Roblo here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish to me more. Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.