"What he wants, when he wants"

Instagram teen accounts default teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. Explore teen accounts and all of our ongoing work to protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you proved it to you, would that frighten you? While now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. It was to be called Trump Tower, 58 stories of high-end retail and high-priced condominiums. But before he could begin construction, Trump had vowed to preserve two valuable sculptures. And these were absolutely beautiful Art Deco sculptures that had been promised to the Metropolitan Museum. It was delaying Trump's construction. So he brings in a gang of workers to just break the stuff up. And boom, dust. Gone forever. Hi again, everybody. It's 5 o'clock in New York. That is who Donald Trump is, the ruthless real estate mogul, interested in, quote, breaking stuff up into dust to get what he wants, when he wants it, more than anything else. And what he wants right now is to put his stamp on the physical structure that is the White House to build a $250 million 90,000 square foot ballroom, similar to the one he has at Mar-a-Lago. His biggest alteration yet to the People's House, following his coating of the Oval Office in flashy gold decor and Chachkes. His transformation of the White House Rose Garden into concrete, considering what happened with those sculptures when he wanted to build Trump Tower, it should come as no surprise that yesterday, as construction began on the new White House ballroom, part of the east wing of the White House was demolished. Quite a visual that's created. An excavator tore through parts of the East Wing to make room for Donald Trump's next vanity project. A project Donald Trump says is being paid for by corporate executives. And full disclosure, our parent company, Comcast, is on a list of top donors, although we don't know how much Comcast or the other donors are contributing. Outrage at the demolition of such an historic and symbolic building came swiftly. and made sure to put Donald Trump's destruction in perspective. California Governor Gavin Newsom wrote this, quote, ripping apart the White House, just like he's ripping apart the Constitution. And Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota said this, quote, seeing the White House torn apart is really emblematic of the times we're in. The White House apparently felt the pressure from these criticisms. Daily Beast is reporting this, quote, Trump's goons were raging, end quote. Also this, quote,

White House's official rapid response 47 account on X called out the fake outrage over Trump's big, beautifully, and privately funded White House ballroom by listing previous tweaks to the building. And White House Director of Communications, Stephen Chung wrote, quote, construction has always been part of the evolution of the White House. Losers who are quick to criticize need to stop their pearl clutching and understand the building needs to be modernized. Otherwise, You're just living in the past, dude. No, dude. But there may as well have been. Democratic Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey put his disapproval like this, quote, I wanted to share this photo of my family standing by an historic part of the White House that was just torn down today by Donald Trump. We didn't need a billionaire-funded ballroom to celebrate America. Disgusting what Trump is doing. This unprecedented moment as an apt metaphor, Trump's demolishing the White House as he also demolishes our country's constitutional norms and rule of law is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and reporters and friends. David From is here. He's a staff writer for the Atlantic. He's the host of the video podcast, The David From Show. Also joining us, staff writer for the Atlantic, author of Autocracy, Inc. and Applebaum is here. And joining us from the White House, MSNBC Senior White House correspondent. Von Hilliard is here. Let me place the what of this into the frame first because... If you haven't been inside the White House, which is probably most people, if you haven't worked in the White House, which is probably most people, you don't understand what the big deal is about modernizing it. I think you do. But let's just put into context what a four-year stay in this building means to most people they're from. Well, I don't have a problem with modernizing the White House. If the president of the United States is convinced the White House needs to be modernized, and if he goes to Congress to get approval, and if he raises the funds, then by all means modernize. I think we're a little bit being misdirected. The vandalism is a story, but the bigger story is the bribery. Donald Trump says as a feature, he says, as a point of strength, well, the taxpayer isn't paying for it. If it's important, the taxpayer should pay for it. Everyone who is giving the money. the quarter of a billion dollars to pay for this thing, with all due respect to Comcast, thank you for the hospitality, is doing so in expectation of something in return. They're not doing it for love of ballroom dancing. They are doing it with an expectation of something in return. And this is a pattern that you see again and again through this White House. Vast favors. The TikTok deal, where Donald Trump is selling TikTok to a hand-selected group of insiders for maybe a third or a quarter of its actual market value. So huge sums of money are trading hands. And this $250 million flow of funds from donors to Trump's vanity project is...

It's not cost-free. They are getting something for their money. And if the taxpayer won't pay for it, then it's not worth doing. And Applebaum, this feels like, I feel like every time you're here, I use this expression, but another Rubicon crossing moment where the actual physical representation of the White House, the People's House, is on the receiving end of destruction and demolition. As Americans, we don't have that many shared symbols. And the ones that we have are reached back into history. You know, we have our flag. We have the eagle. We have our founding documents. But we differ in many, many ways. The White House is one thing that... We've all seen pictures of it, even if we haven't been there or worked there. We've seen photographs of presidents giving press conferences in the Rose Garden that no longer exists. We see them walking down the corridors of the East Wing that no longer exists. We're used to seeing it as part of our, you know, it's the background to, to, you know, to the news that we all see every day. And by. destroying it in the way that he's doing it, as David says, without asking Congress, without raising taxpayers money, without involving architects or historical preservationists, what Trump is saying, this isn't your symbol. It's not your house. It's not the backdrop to your news about your country. It's mine. And I'm changing it the way I want to change it. And I think it needs a ballroom that looks like the ballroom at Mar-a-Lago. And we haven't even talked about the aesthetic damage that he's doing. But the symbolic damage to what we all hold in common to images that belong to all of us, I think is quite dramatic. David, Fromm, let me come back to you on the corruption. The selling off. for parts of the American presidency is, to your point, this really under-emphasized, I won't say undercover because it's not fair to journalists like yourself and Ann and Vaughn, but it is an underappreciated part of the Trump story. And it started that way, right? The oligarchs or the tech titans weren't in the audience. They were on the stage facing out at the subjects, us, the audience, the TV cameras. Explain why the country seemed slow. to reject that or be repulsed by that? Well, I think you're right that people are having slow. I think part of it is that the typical person who doesn't follow politics as closely has an idea that Washington is very corrupt. It's full of corruption. Donald Trump is just more forthright about being corrupt, but he's no different than anyone else. And it's hard for people to understand, you know, Washington is, does have integrity problems for sure. That's true under every administration. You make them understand this is a hundred times worse. That's not saying it was zero before, but this is new and different and bigger. That's a hard thing to communicate with people who are pretty cynical. Donald Trump, in his first term, had another thing going for him, which I think he will not have in the second term.

Americans often take a view, well, if I'm getting mine, I don't care if you're getting yours, even if yours is bigger. And most Americans remember, fairly or not, the first three years of the first term of Donald Trump's presidency as a time of general prosperity. So if Trump was putting his hand into the till and making Mike Pence stay at Trump's golf club and charging the Secret Service millions of dollars to stay at his resorts, you know what, I'm getting mine, he's getting his, he's getting more, but I'm still getting mine. In the second term, that deal is breaking down. People are worse off. They are paying vast amounts of tariffs, $30 plus billion a month in Trump tariffs going into the Treasury, the cost of the taxpayer, the consumers much more. So I think it will not be true. And as just one last thing, just minutes before this program began, came news reported by the Newark Times, that Donald Trump is seeking a $230 million direct payment from the U.S. for his unhappiness of being investigated for trying to overthrow the 2020 election. Yeah, and, I mean, it is, it is a point now where he clearly feels unrestrained, grabbing buckets of taxpayer money and pushing them into his pockets. What is the historical pattern of a public revolting or rejecting that conduct? Well, we haven't had, as David says, we haven't had anything on this scale in American history. We've had presidents before who, I don't know, their wife's relatives were given some kind of government contract, but we haven't had presidents making billions and billions of dollars out of being in office, out of donors, out of crypto scams. It's another thing most people don't understand. I mean, around the world. Of course, it's also very common in authoritarian regimes for the leader to be, to also become vastly wealthy in a very secret way. Vladimir Putin is extremely wealthy. Maybe the wealthiest person in the world, but we don't really know how he's wealthy or where his money is. Xi Jinping is very wealthy. So is his family. We don't know how or why he's wealthy either in the leaders of... of Iran are wealthy, the Revolutionary Guard, rather. The Venezuelan leadership is also very wealthy. So it is a characteristic of authoritarian regimes that the leader is wealthy in these secretive ways. And I think for Americans, just catching up to the idea that our country is moving rapidly in that direction is You know, it's taking a minute. I mean, people aren't used to the idea that the president becomes a billionaire after being president. Vaughn, just answer this question, though, I mean this seriously. Does he think it looks good and nice and elegant to have the Oval Office covered in gold, the Rose Garden covered in concrete, and the East Wing on the receiving end of a bulldozer? Does he relish those images? Yes, absolutely. It's why Mara Lago looks the way it does, and it's why now the White House is being transformed in the way it is. And I think it's in the way this White House construction, the replacement of the East Wing with the ballroom, is a microcosm. It's representative of, I think, this first nine months in office in so many ways. It is the rejection of advise and consent. It is the use of acting U.S. attorneys instead of ones that go through the confirmation process. It is a rejection of inspectors.

General. It is the placement of a close ally into the position of being head of the government accountability office, the GAO. And in a lot of ways, right, there have been, you know, controversial, if you go back to Harry Truman's administration, controversial renovation projects at the White House 80 years ago. But Harry Truman, he put together a commission by a pass through a law of Congress to create this bipartisan commission to go forward with. with the renovation projects at the White House. And in this instance, it is not clear whether the White House Historical Association has been consulted in any way. I am told that the Commission of Fine Arts has not been consulted in any way. That was a commission that was formed back in 1910. I'm told by somebody who's been a long time part of this process here that... You know, this is the commission that is not just over, helps oversee renovations of the White House, but all federal buildings in Washington to ensure that there is sort of the, that these buildings and these projects fit into the mold of what the capital of the United States should look like. And yet there are four openings on that commission. President Trump hasn't appointed anybody to fill those four vacancies and instead is completely bypassed going through what has been standard protocol for the last 115 years. And so I think in a lot of ways, the president believes that he knows what's best. And in this process, it's completely bypassed going through any sort of consultation project. with designers or architects or individuals who have not only the future of what the landscape of the country and the capital can look like, but also the understanding of what the past is. Vaughn. I hear you that he thinks that the gold in the White House and the concrete in the Rose Garden look good. But the Wall Street Journal tells a different story about the construction. They're reporting that as construction proceeds on the White House grounds, employees should refrain from taking and sharing photographs of the grounds to include the East Wing without prior approval from the Office of Public Affairs. That's from a Treasury official. Why are they so sensitive about the images if they're so happy about destroying the East Wing? I think it's a good question, and I doubt that everybody within this administration is eager to see these images. And there are some that will make the case that the East Wing needs to be renovated, that it could use a redo. But I think what everybody was taken aback by was the fact that the East Wing, you know, east of the Colonnade, which runs down from the actual White House residence, is going to be completely replaced. And, you know, it's very difficult. I went down there earlier today to try to go and get some images about from that angle that you're looking at on screen. And unless you're at the Treasury Department, you can't get a very good angle. It's been increasingly tougher ever since 9-11 to get within proximity of the White House for understandable reasons here. But it's one of these, I think, moments in when you're looking at the way that it has gone about, the patio, you know, complete removal of the Rose Garden. It's stark to see the paving over of the Rose Garden that was overseen by Jackie Robert F. Kennedy Jr., you know, 60 years ago. I think that in a lot of ways there is an opportunity.

obvious sensitivity to this year. And on any, on a day of a week, you can, you're likely to hear from the front of the White House from the North Lawn music that is blaring almost in the way that it is blaring at Mara Lago about out on the patio. And so it's, it's tough to keep up with the changes and the transformations. And in a lot of ways, I think the White House staff is also, you know, changing with the times. And it is very clear that there is one man that is running the construction project and it's the president. Let me see the shot one more time of the East Wing with the... So I worked in the White House on 9-11, and the only image I've ever seen in Washington that looked like that was the Pentagon on 9-11, David from. I mean, these images, if you live in Washington or have worked in Washington have a horribly traumatic connotation. And I understand that news of our politics takes a long time to seep in. People have busy lives. People are struggling to pay for groceries and cost of living. But to see someone destroy the White House, in such a dramatic and opt-in manner is really jarring. It's also worth remembering what the East Wing was used for. During the Second World War, that's where the military attachés were lodged in the White House. And in more recent times, it's been where the First Lady of the United States had her office, I believe Rosalind Carter was the first, and since then it's been continuous. So for a president who's been contemptuous of allies, contemptuous of the military, contemptuous of the role of women in government, I don't know. Maybe he figures we don't need an East Wing anymore because who's going to use it just. The suckers and losers who wear the uniform of the United States and the first lady, his first lady, doesn't seem to have any role at all, doesn't do anything for the country. But maybe he doesn't need it. It looks like a terrorist attack, as you say. But let's keep in mind that what is replacing it is going to be a lot worth. What is replacing it is going to be a monument and bribery. It's unbelievable. No one's going anywhere. There is... At the time he came on the air, at least one Republican detractor to this endeavor will show that to you. The panel sticks around also ahead. As Americans face increasingly difficult economic hardships, a government shutdown and a president who, as David and everyone has pointed out, is easily bribed by billionaires, all too willing to fund things like a new ballroom. We are lucky today to get to spend some time with one of our most favorite friends of the show, someone who has a real sense. what's happening on main streets in American cities. Actor Jeff Daniels would be our guest here at the table later in the broadcast. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for teens. Instagram teen accounts have built-in content settings and limits for who can contact teens.

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We are back with David, Ann, and Bond. So, Ann, I don't get to say this very often, but today, the person bringing us this stark and politically perilous contrast of Donald Trump's ballroom and the struggles of people either from the government shutdown or the ailing economy is a Republican senator named Thom Tillis. Let me show this to you. I saw that you were expressed concern about the White House renovations, particularly with the timing of the shutdown. Yeah, it's just like, you know, the last thing, you know, it's a function room. We're in the middle of, I've got, we've got staff here that are taking out loans, no interest loans to pay their bills while they're not getting paid, that sort of stuff. I just think it's bad optics. Well, it's a lot more than a function room. A function room is where you play dodge ball when there's rain. It's a flipping ballroom in a bump. But when it's so bad that even a Republican has to speak out against the optics, there's something there. It's a huge, enormous building. I don't know if you've seen the little maquettes, the little mock-ups of what it's going to look like, but it's an enormous room that will dwarf the original White House, which is actually a rather small and elegant originally 18th century building. And so the idea that we're building this Maria Antoinette kind of ridiculous, unnecessary, luxurious project at a moment when, as you say, the government is shut down, the economy is slowing. people are paying tariffs for no reason except that Donald Trump feels that it's a good idea for them to pay tariffs, and so everything costs more, is one of the, you know, it's one of the great contrasts of the moment. I am actually genuinely surprised that there aren't more Republicans speaking up about this because this is something that, you know, we were talking just a minute ago about why Americans don't notice the corruption. This is the kind of thing that they will notice, you know, as an enormous a kind of Mar-a-Lago-style building goes up next to, again, a place that we find familiar that is something that belongs to all of us. And as they see the contrast between that and what they can afford and what the government does for them, I think people will react. You know, Vaughn, I know that a lot of... what you're able to report out is all of this perceived political strength. Donald Trump historically has been cognizant of the polls, and his poll numbers are as low as they've ever been. The latest polling last week after the Mideasties deal was 37% approval rating. His numbers are lower on the economy, and they're lower than they've ever been on immigration. Does he view the rigging of the maps for the midterm as his insurance against his... seeming downward trajectory in terms of the public's approval of his performance.

It's definitely beneficial. And I think what he regretted or what I know he regretted from his first term is largely that he was hesitant. And a lot of that hesitancy came from advisors who were consulting with him based off of what they felt would be not good looks or things perceived by the public or polling as being unbeneficial to him politically or could potentially hurt Republicans in the midterm elections or his 2020 elections. we have heard over the last four years was that if he were to get back into office, that he would go full steam ahead, and that there would be no regrets, and that he would execute the exact type of agenda and surround himself with the people that were willing to execute that agenda. And so in so many ways, right, just today, you know, referencing Darth Vader as Russ Vought sat in front of him, right, his OMB director, who is the one that is executing not just these furloughs, but these firings, and the cancellation of $11 billion in U.S. Army Corps of Engineers projects, $18 billion. in projects in the state of New York, $8 billion in green energy projects. These are all individuals who he continues to tout and continue to deliver on the exact agenda that he wanted for his second term. And so, and you contrast that with this idea of, you know, he's trying to move forward with this austerity agenda of, you know, cutting bloated government, but building the White House at the same time. You brought up the idea of why they're trying to hide the imagery of it. In so many ways, these two concepts run perpendicular to each other. polling be damned in a lot of ways. The president believes that he is won despite shutdowns in the past and believes that, right, the idea of repealing Obamacare or, you know, cuts to health care only have so much consequence. And so in so many ways, I think yes, right? He is definitely in tune to political and popular opinion, yet at the same time, increasingly every midterm election and general election since is felt emboldened by this idea that he he being himself and not listening to anybody telling him to do otherwise, ultimately has given him his biggest political victories and allowed him to return to the White House in a Renaissance fashion and now be here at the White House and be able to move forward in a way in which even Congress of the courts are having a difficult time holding him back. To stipulate, though, we're nine months in, and some things are still making their way through the courts. But let me flip that to your original point, David, from. The corruption is on the part of publicly held companies who care a whole lot about their brands. And a president at 36% is an interesting bet, whether it's simply pay to play, and I don't know, there's no evidence. that has emerged of exactly what they're getting. But I take your point that whatever is constructed was paid for by corporations. And so there will be something. No one does anything for free because they have shareholders. They can't. But what about the peril for all of the capitulators? Everyone who's bending in need, the law firms, the universities. I think more universities are doing deals this week are reported to be considering them. This is the president at 37% in falling with an economy sort of on a cliff. You've got... reports in the New York Times about people falling way behind on their car payments. You've got farmers, not just the soy bean farmers, but you've got farmers talking about bankruptcy, literally jumping up and down, pleading for help. You've got Republican senators who voted for the big bill talking about undoing parts of it that cut Medicaid. And you've got tariffs that haven't hit yet that will be in full pain position by the holiday shopping season. Companies are betting on a very unpopular president and an even more toxic agenda.

Look, this plan may come unglued. You don't go bankrupt four times or however many times it was that Donald Trump went bankrupt unless you have a big appetite for risk on your way to reward, especially when you're playing with other people's money. So he's taking some gambles. But I think my reading of his approach to 2026. Donald Trump doesn't have strategies exactly. He doesn't have plans. He's not that kind of a thinker, but he does have this kind of feral instinct for weak points in survival. So he's trying a lot of things. Not clear that they'll all work. It's not clear that the redistricting will work, although, as Juan said, that'll help. So you've got the redistricting plan. You've got the troops on the streets. Maybe that can scare away some voters. That might work. You've got the increasingly aggressive role of the military overseas, ice behaving, being more and more violent to urban populations. Maybe that's part of the plan. And then you've got the, I talked before about the TikTok deal. I think this is really an underreport story. So TikTok throws off $10 billion a year in revenue. Depending on how you value, that's worth $40 billion in the stock market, $50 billion, at least the U.S. operations of TikTok, maybe more. Meta trades for 10 times gross sale. So maybe it's $100 billion. A hand-pick group of insiders are going to be given 80% of that company for $14.5 billion. That's an enormous discount. TikTok is, depending on who you ask, probably the single most important communications medium in the United States. Will the single most important media company, the new owners of that single most important media company in the country be grateful to the man who gave them a 40, 50, 80 billion dollar asset for $14.5 billion? I think they will. And will he have other ways of putting pressure on them? Because there's going to be debts that they're going to owe to the president, including cash debts. So he's trying a bunch of things. I always, when you ask the questions about how things are doing, I always answer, this is going to be a bad year for the incumbent president if the election is free and fair. But that's not. a figure of speech if the election is free and fair. That's a real doubt for the first time and a long time, maybe ever in American history. And that should probably be the jumping off point for every conversation we have from now until then, right? Everything we've talked about hinges on the answer to that question. And I'll give you a quick last word. You could add six or seven more things to what David just said. The federal government has been demanding voter data from the states. There are a lot of states that are looking at new laws governing voter data. I would just finish by saying that the number of ways in which they're looking at how to shape the playing field, how to make an uneven playing field is myriad. They're doing it in many different departments of the government. And so it's something everybody should be aware of between now and next November. All right. So let's let's do this.

Same time, same place. Let's just tick through all those, because I think putting them all, I think they hang together in a way that makes a lot more sense than when people like myself try to whack them all at them. Thank you so much, David from Ann Appabom and Bonn Hilliard for starting us off today. When we come back, Americans increasingly stressed out and feeling the burden of rising costs of just about everything. A stumbling economy and a president hellbent on punishing his perceived enemies, not dealing with the price of, quote, the grocery. promised. We will welcome to the table, someone who is watching the impact of all of this on his neighbors and friends in his native Michigan. Actor Jeff Daniels will be our guest after a short break. Don't go anywhere. At DSW, we asked the important questions. Like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with designer shoe warehouse. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today. And let us surprise you. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business. None of which are connected. And each one more expensive and more complicated than a lot. Scaling with you while being magically affordable. And some say Odoo's programs for manufacturing and accounting and more are left building blocks. And they're all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odu sound all of it? Fertilizer magic beef is harmonized your business. For business, a simple, efficient software that can handle everything for every business the price. Sign up at odoo.com. That's odio.0. Walmart shoppers. Meet the debit card design with you in mind. The Walmart Money Card offers up to $75 cash back on purchases at Walmart each year, early direct deposit, overdraft protection, and so much more. When Walmart is your everyday store, you need a card to match. That's the Walmart Money Card. Open your account today. The Walmart Money Card is issued by green dot bank member FDIC. Fees, terms, and conditions apply. Visit Walmart Moneycard.com to learn more. The American people were just focused on, you know, the ideas that he was spewing. And it wasn't even just ideas. It was just, you know, stating the obvious and pointing out a lot of things that Democrats may have been ignoring like the border, you know, like the economy. He said it himself, man, we want on one word groceries. That was for my conversation with Charlemagne the God for this week's episode of the Best People podcast. Donald Trump won on one word, the groceries. Economic anxiety catapulted Donald Trump back to the White House because, as our next guest says, the money matters. The new polling out today shows that Donald Trump has done little to address the very thing that won him the presidency a second time. According to AP Norke polling, 54% of Americans say that grocery costs are a major source of stress. That stress that voters are feeling does not appear to be Donald Trump's priority, as we just discussed. And Senator Elizabeth Warren points out, quote, Oh, you're trying to say the cost of living is skyrocketing. Donald Trump can't hear you over the sound of bulldozers demolishing a wing of the White House to build a new grand ballroom. Joining me at the table, actor, musician, Michigan, my friend Jeff Daniels. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. How is it?

feel out there? I feel like that's always my question on and off TV. I think the No King's protest, aside from the 8 million plus people that actually did, brought attention to what's going on, to the people who have checked out. who just can't deal with it. It's too much every day. I talk about when we did Newsroom, the Aaron Sorkin show, if we were to be still doing that now, we couldn't keep up. And, you know, even today, there's this, that, the other thing that the White House and this administration is doing, and people just go, but I think that those who... voted for him because they didn't want Kamala Harris or don't like Democrats, never vote for Democrats ever, are paying attention if things cost more. And that was one of the things he promised. Like any president promised, you know, I'm going to lower prices. Well, if he does, great. He's a hero, come the midterms. But if he doesn't, They're going to notice that. And it's not the people on the right who are going to stay with him, but it's the people who went with him because he promised that he'd make their lives better. And if they aren't better, he'll be, and the Congress, and the Republicans in Congress, will be like any other political party that didn't deliver. It's interesting. We've talked a lot about decency and the lack of decency coming from the guy in the Oval Office. And I think what has been explained over the last nine years is that a lot of voters were willing to sacrifice decency and norms and traditions because they felt a little bit better about their economy. Either they thought his wealth was contagious or they just thought because he was so wealthy or they perceived him to be wealthy and successful that he could scale that. When that goes away, I mean, there's a story in the New York Times today about records number of people defaulting on their car loans. Most people need their car to go to work. There's a housing crisis in this country. Groceries are more expensive, not less expensive. And you see windows into even Donald Trump talking about the price of beef. I mean, that is real. That is undeniable. And that is getting worse. Do you think decency remains a luxury for people? Or do you think decency? comes into focus when they realize that he hasn't made their economies better? I would like to think that things like decency and civility and respect for the rule of law and respect for things that are bigger than you, including the office of the presidency, which is different than a monarchy. will matter. First, it will be about the economy. It always is. Carville was right. It just is. And that's okay. But I think then people will start to go, well, maybe it wasn't worth it. And by the way, do we really have to treat people like that? You know, the meme that he had where he was flying with the crown and the...

you know, spewing or excrement all over the people down below. The country, America. Yeah, would Lincoln have done that? I don't think Nixon would have done that. Nixon wouldn't have done it. You know, Reagan wouldn't have done it. Bush wouldn't have done it. Either Bush. You know, it's just, you know, I just, I think people in the Midwest, where I am, still have this, we value our decency and our civility. And, you know, we don't get taken with whatever it goes on on the coast. You know, we got a chip on our shoulder about that. And. I think it matters. It may not matter right away when you're voting, but down the road, if he doesn't deliver on the economy like he promised he would. then that stuff will start to add up. And they'll get tired of it. And they'll vote for change, which is what they always do. You know, change is always, we're always changing. I was thinking about, you know, when I was growing up, and I started listening to Led Zeppelin. And my dad was going, what the hell is that? You know, I mean, it changes. Every generation changes things. And we're in a place now where they want to change it back. to whatever that was. And I don't think people are as afraid of change. And we'll find out at midterms. But I don't think they're afraid of change. I think they wanted things to get solved economically. But I think when it comes to decency and civility and respect for the rule of law, which governs all of us, whether we're left or right, will matter again. You played James Comey. And James Comey, I think it's the first political prosecution. Donald Trump had him indicted via social media post. Pam, hurry up and do it. I think they went through two, three, four people from an office that fled because the facts weren't there, but they found somebody. They found their gal and Lucy Lindsey Halligan. I, those facts are known, but I wonder if there was anything about James Comey's response. He issues a video that says, I'm not afraid, and let's have a trial. It seemed like a very, like it seemed like a line that you could deliver as James Comey. It seemed like a very James Comey response. I wonder if you have as much confidence as he does that the rule of law will keep him safe from political prosecution. You know, I got to play him in the James Comey rule, and one of the things I learned about him was his,

the sacredness of the rule of law. And one person I talked to described him as a Boy Scout when it came to that kind of thing. And you can argue that he handled the Hillary announcement in the summer wrong. But come that fall in the month leading up to it, there are some things that happened that weren't his fall. And he took the blame for it. I always respected him for handling that the way he did when he was basically hammered. And even now, with this kind of retribution campaign, and he's the star of the first one, he did something that Trump hasn't done. He said, let's go to court. Yeah. I'm innocent. Let's go to court. You know, Trump's always been, whether it was the Mar-a-Lago classified documents or go down the long list of stuff, he'd delay, he'd appeal, he'd do that. All the lawyer, you know, magic tricks he could do. James Comey said, no, let's go. I mean, I've always thought that if Trump were that innocent of some of this stuff, He'd go, let's go to court on Monday, and could you do it at 10? Because I'm going to schedule a tea time at 3, because this will be dismissed in half an hour, because I'm innocent. He never wanted to face the evidence or the sex, or jury. But Jim will do it. Jim will do it? And that tells me that he's going, bring it. This could be over in two hours. It's amazing. It is another contrast. Will you stay? I have to sneak in a quick break. Sure. Okay, we're on the other side with Jeff Daniels. Don't go anywhere.

When we interviewed Joan Baez for the Best People podcast, we asked her what was different about the movements in the 60s. And she said, well, lots of things. But one of them, we had each other, and we had the music. On Saturday, seven million Americans found each other at the No Kings protest. And today, thanks to Jeff Daniels, we've got the music. This is a song I wrote called Crazy World, which is how I cope. Okay, let's hear it. I've seen a young girl smiling. It's something he just said. I watched him fall into her pretty green eyes. His cheeks turned Valentine red. I've seen an old man walking with his wife by his side. I watched him reach down, take her hand, damned if I didn't cry. This crazy world's gone crazy. Who am I to judge? It's nice to know in a world full of hate. There's someone out there still making love.

I've seen a dog's tail wagon. I've seen a grandchild run. I've sung along to a day breaking dawn and a hundred thousand setting suns. I've seen a door held open. I've seen stranger shaking hands. I've seen a kiss from that old flame she missed. Last a little longer than planned This crazy world's gone crazy Who am I to judge? It's nice to know in a world full of hate There's someone out there still making love I've seen a prayer get answered I've seen a bride in June I'm proud to say I've seen the Milky Way winking at the man in the moon I've seen a dozen roses I've seen a heart on a sleeve I've seen enough to know what I know Know what I still believe This crazy world's gone crazy Who am I to judge? It's nice to know in a world for a hate There's someone out there There's someone out there There's someone out there There's someone out there

We needed that. We all needed that. You ever get any reaction from the crew. That's awesome. I love it. Thank you. Will you come back? Sure. You sing to us? Sure. That great. Jeff Daniels. Thank you so much for being here. We're going to sneak in one more break. We've got some breaking news on the other side. Don't go anywhere. News breaking in the last few minutes, Arizona Attorney General Chris Mays has sued the United States House of Representatives over Republican Speaker Mike Johnson's failure to swear in Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva. She won a special election in Arizona's 7th District one month ago. Grahava has promised to cast the final vote needed to push forward. the discharge petition compelling the Justice Department to release documents pertaining to Jeffrey Epstein. Johnson has blamed the government shutdown because the House is not in regular session, but Mays is arguing in her lawsuit that Johnson is breaking the precedent he set just this April when he swore into Republicans in a pro forma session. We'll stay on top of that lawsuit. One more break. We'll be right back. We heard a little bit from my conversation with Charlemagne the God a couple minutes ago, and we want to remind you that he is my guest on this week's episode of The Best People. Scan the QR code on the screen to watch the conversation right now on YouTube. And as always, you can listen wherever you get your podcast. I hope you let me know what you think. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful. Sometimes life will get you stressed out. Lucky you can always count on text now. Free talk, free text, 35G, and they'll never shut you off. Because like I said, it's free. Free, text now's got your back nationwide, no long-term contracts. But all they're nervous by losing service. Text Now's got your back. That's their sense of purpose. No matter what comes next, you've got free talk and text with the TextNow app. Download it today. Wireless plans require the purchase of a SIM card. Visit TextNow.com for terms and conditions.