"Some kind of accountability"

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To the survivors. This is not about anybody that came before you. It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you and are waiting for you to turn to them and apologize for what your Department of Justice system. I'm not going to get in the gutter for her theatrics. Describing the victims as the gutter. That's new. For the record, there was no apology. Attorney General Pam Bondi never turned around and apologized to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse. And it wasn't just Democrats that Pam Bondi acted like that with or sparred with. Here's what happened when Republican Congressman Thomas Massie pressed Attorney General Pam Bondi on what looked to him like an attempt by the Justice Department to protect the powerful people in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit while releasing personal information in the survivors' name. Are you able to track who in your organization? made this massive failure and released the victim's names? Are you able to track who it was that obscured Les Wexner's name as a co-conspirator in an FBI document? Do you have that kind of accountability? I believe Wexner's name was listed more than 4,000 times. Yeah, I already told you that. This is where he's listed as a co-conspirator. Can I finish my answer? Come on. Let me finish my answer. We corrected that within 40 minutes. He was already, you're acting like everybody's trying to cover up Wexner's name. Reclaiming my time. I'm going to answer this question. Reclaiming my time. He was, Mr. Chairman. This isn't how this works. Within 40 minutes. Wexner's name was added back. Within 40 minutes of me catching you red-handed. Red-hand, there was one redaction out of over 4,700. And we invited you in. This guy has Trump derangement syndrome. There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. Is that your position as well? My position is any victim who comes forward. Of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800 call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years? Did you talk about Epstein? I'm reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. You don't give a reclaim time. Because this is bigger than Watergate. Yeah. It's about how it went. When it comes to the fact that multiple Trump administration officials are named in the Epstein files, that government official, Pam Bondi, showed zero interest in looking into or understanding better their ties to the dead convicted child sex trafficker.

Has the Justice Department specifically asked Secretary Howard Lutnick about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein? He has addressed those ties himself. Has the DOJ asked Secretary Phelan about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know whether he has addressed those or not. Has Deputy Secretary Feinberg talked the Department of Justice about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein? Yes or no? Has the Department of Justice talked to Secretary, Deputy Secretary Feinberg, about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, which are clearly spelled out in the files? It's a very simple question. It's not a trick question. I'm just asking you. Yeah, I'm stunned that you want to continue talking about. Oh my gosh. Okay. We have evidence that three senior officials within the Trump administration have ties to Jeffrey Epstein and what I can prove. The American people have a right to know the answers to this. These are senior officials and the Trump administration. This is not a game, Secretary. I'm attorney general. My apologies. I couldn't tell. It's about how the whole day went. Pam Bondi, making clear that she was there to perform for an audience of one. It's not clear if even he liked that. It's for the audience that should have mattered. Forget about the American people, but the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's abuse, here's what survivor, Danny Guy Benson, said to my colleague Ali Vitale. It's exhausting to hear her not answer questions. I mean, basically she's just evading every question. At one point, she talked about what is Jekyll and Hyde? Like, anything that she can do to eat up the time and anything she can do to not even humanize survivors. And I think that that's the biggest takeaway for a lot of us. She won't even turn around and acknowledge us as people. She won't even look at us after we have gone through so much. And the DOJ has... failed time and time again. It is just such a grave miscarriage of justice. That's where we start the hour. Tara Palmerry's back with us. She writes the red letter on Substack. She is hosted two acclaimed podcast on the Epstein case called Broken, Jeffrey Epstein, Empower, The Maxwell's. Also joining us, political analysts and host of the Bullwork podcast, Tim Miller's here. And joining me at the table, legal analyst, Christy Greenberg. She's a former criminal division deputy chief at SDMI. She is the host of the YouTube show Courtside. Tim Miller, let me show you what Joe Rogan has to say about the Trump administration's. handling of all of this. Oh, FBI concluded Jeffrey Epstein wasn't running a sex trafficking ring for powerful men file show. That's the gasletiest gaslight and I've ever heard in my life.

Again, not to sort of obscure the fact that they've lost the plot, that the survivors have never expressed a partisan utterance since they've sort of mustered the courage to be part of the conversation and calls for accountability, that the issue was kept alive by the right to its credit over the last nine years. And that these performances aren't... the FUs to the left that I think Pam Bondi thinks they are. They're an FU to the core of the Trump MAGA base that sent him back there. You think that's right, Nicole. It felt like a very not-of-the-moment performance by Pam Bondi. You call the performance for an audience of one. I guess it's right. It also kind of felt like the type of typical performance. I don't know, from one of the hearings passed about Benghazi or Hillary's emails or something. We really were just trying to get clips for Fox News primetime. I don't know that this issue calls for that. I think that there are a lot of people, particularly in the Maga Base throughout the country, that want to know. Who was implicated here? And some of the testimony today obviously had some political valence to it. The one example in addition to the clips you played that struck me, as much Jerry Nadler was asking her. And he said, you know, how many of Epstein's co-conspirators have you indicted? How many perpetrators are you even investigating? And her answer to that was to yell at them and say, this is theatrics. She called him washed up. And I just don't know who that plays for because like that question was not a political question. I wasn't even necessarily about Trump or the cabinet. The question is about. Who else did this? Like obviously there were other men that were perpetrators here, that were committing sexual crimes against girls. And people want to know who it is. And people want to know if you're investigating it. And just like dumping all these files and then calling us names is not sufficient to that task. And so to me, I think that was like the big miss for her, for her to do this kind of. you know, yelling and screaming like theatrical performance like on a matter that is so sensitive and that and that people across party lines in the country care about. Yeah, you've got 81% of all Americans who believe Donald Trump is hiding something in the Epstein files. You've got as much or more interest in seeing the files released on the right than on the left. You've got no partisan divide in questions about transparency and suspicions about the cover up. But here was Pam Bondi's answer to what we should be talking about instead of transparency, accountability, and justice. Her thoughts, well, I'll show you.

Show you for, for, speaks for itself. She thinks we should be covered. They are talking about Epstein today. This has been around since the Obama administration. This administration released over 3 million pages of documents, over 3 million. And Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them, ask Merrick Garland over the last four years one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, the Dow, the Dow right now, is over, the Dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. We're laughing because we're not on CNBC, sweetie. I mean, what is that? I don't, I mean, Tara, I think the Dow is really important. But you're in a room with survivors. Some of them were children at the time of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's child sex trafficking ring. Criminals, hardened criminals. And, you know, she's the person who said, quote, I've got the list on my desk. So the whole, like, befuddlement that she likes to. to play there, Tara, about white people asking her about it. She made binders. She made really big binders. I don't even know that you can get them at the office supply store. They seem special orders. So thick. She made binders and handed them out to right-wing, you know, I don't know, pundits, people in the right-wing world after she said on a Fox News interview that she had, you know, quote, the list on her desk. And then she brought the right wing pundits into the White House and she met with them in the Roosevelt room and she handed out these massive binders. So she's the one that pumped, pumped this story up until she face planted. I mean, what is she trying to do if you can figure that one out? I have no idea, Nicole. I mean, it's really heartbreaking to see what happened today because I remember. around the time that the files were going to be released the first time in December when we were supposed to get the first, we were supposed to get all the Epstein files. That was the actual deadline. I remember one of the survivors telling me, we have a meeting with Pam Bondi, and they were really excited about it. I mean, they have been grasping at straws, wanting some sort of vindication, some sort of support. hoping, praying, believing that maybe this administration will do the right thing, despite being shown along the way that that is not what they are interested in. And, you know, I was told, and I said, well, can I report on this that you want to meet with Pam Bondi? And they said, no, no, no, no, no. We want to keep it low key because we want her to follow through. We really want to meet with her. We want to make our case. They truly believe that if they could look her in the eye, they could, like, reach in there and grab something human. They really did. And they really believe that. to this day. And that's why they still go on Capitol Hill every single time. And they stand there. And honestly, that was a humiliation for her, really. But that was a horrible experience for them to have to stand there. And look at her back. Well, she snarled and sounded like Amy Poehler from that S&L skit. Like, you losers. She said, like some mean girl when we're talking about child predation. It's like, it's so off script. It's so weird, like Tim said. This is a very...

odd thing to witness. It's a disgusting thing to witness. And you have people there who really believed in her at one time. And of course, she stood them up. She stood them up and she continues to. And that was exactly why they were asked. Have any of you met with Pam Bondi? Why have they not met with the Attorney General? This is the biggest case in this country in the world right now. Why are they not sitting in the FBI's headquarters right now sitting down for more 302s? Yeah. Thomas Massie, another Republican, chalks it up to incompetence. Let me show you that, Christy. The recourse, and I keep reminding the folks at DOJ this, is that the next Attorney General can bring charges against them for breaking the law. I think that's what's compelled them to produce three million documents, and now they're claiming that it's incompetence. Like, their defense today is incompetence for why they haven't given us all of the documents. I mean, this is sort of where the rubber meets the road. This is a Republican congressman who says that the next attorney general, after the Trump chapter is over, quote, can bring charges against them for breaking the law. The law requires them to turn over all the files. Yeah, I don't think we should be waiting that long. I don't think that's the answer. This Congress now can take action. There are committees that can file a lawsuit. And just say, you are not complying with the law. We want you to release the files. And here are all the ways you're not in compliance. And go to a judge and try and get some relief now. Not years from now. Now that's what they should be doing. All right. No one's going anywhere. We have much more with everyone on our panel about what happened today, about how Attorney General Pam Bondi Dodge question after question. Question when it came to the Epstein files. Also ahead for us, how Donald Trump continues to corrupt U.S. intelligence as his handpicked director of national intelligence runs point at his direction on a criminal investigation into widely debunk claims of election fraud in an election Donald Trump clearly and convincingly lost in the year 2020. We are lucky enough to be joined by former Principal Deputy D&I Sue Gordon on how Donald Trump's actions are making us less safe right now. Sue will be our guests later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today at Empower.com. Not an Empower client paid or sponsored. Hey there, I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, which caused back pain and stiffness every day. With Kocentics, I'm able to stay active. Kocenumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylidyliditis, or non-radographic axial spondolo arthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self-injection. Don't use if allergic to Kocentix. Get checked for TB before starting.

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So any normal person in that situation, any normal prosecutor would have turned around and looked at them, first of all, shown them that basic decency and respect, and said, make sure to leave all your information, your lawyer's information, contact information with me before you leave. I will make sure someone from the Department of Justice reaches out to you this week. Right? Like, how hard is that? Again, that's not a partisan issue. If you are a victim, if you are a crime victim who wants to speak to a prosecutor, wants to speak to an FBI agent, You should have the ability to do that. And this isn't just any case. This is a case that Pam Bondi has signed filing saying that there is extensive public interest in with the most infamous pedophile in American history. So right after that clip, she was going around like showing a picture of an illegal alien that had committed a crime. Why aren't we talking about this? What issue do you have? Why do you keep trying to deflect from talking about the Epstein files in this crime that you have told the court you consider important? So it makes no sense. Not only does it not make sense, I would argue it's a violation of the Crime Victims Rights Act, which says that crime victims have a right to confer with the government. It also says they have a right to fairness, dignity, and respect. And what she just did there, I mean, how smug she was, keeping her back to them, not acknowledging that complaint, which is a very valid complaint, and just saying, well, just call a hotline? No, no, deal with it, but she doesn't want to step up. And I suspect the reason she doesn't is coming back to something Marjorie Taylor Greene said when she talked to Donald Trump. and said, why don't you just give the victims an audience in the Oval Office? Why don't you meet with them? And he said, they don't deserve an audience. And so she's taking her cues from him. She, it's very clear from me, see the binder of zinger. She's got, she's a puppet. She doesn't have any independent train of thought here. She had, for each member of Congress, she had what she was going to say to kind of. come back to whatever that they were saying, and it's all scripted. She doesn't have independent. This is not her Department of Justice. She is not running things here. She's clearly a puppet. Donald Trump doesn't want to meet with these victims. He has made it clear from the top. He has no respect for them and isn't interested, and therefore she's taking her cues from him, and it's a disgrace. Tara, I guess I'm mad at myself that I can still be shocked and horrified by Donald Trump and the people that work for him. But I'm shocked and horrified that they have made enemies out of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I don't know how you can do that. I mean, these women were, are victims when they were children of one of the most vile crimes. And...

You know, I would agree with Christy. They said case closed without conferring with the victims. And that does violate their crime victims rights act. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you have to talk to the victims of the crime before you decide the verdict. Case closed were ending this. And, you know, all along, the Justice Department hasn't cared about them at all. Pam Bondi seemed completely heartless. She seemed completely soulless, frankly, out there. She seemed like she was working for Trump. She was Trump's defense attorney, and she had no interest in these women. A thousand victims, by the way, all with the same stories. And, yes, she didn't seem to care at all. And I don't see how that's going to help the Republicans going into the midterms. This is not the face they want. And... It was a train wreck. It was a disaster. I don't know how else to describe it, but today was an embarrassment for them and the entire party. Yeah, I mean, and I don't know that Howard Lutnick could look any worse than he already does Tim Miller, but he sort of did. Like if you've got someone, she's the one that was going on and on in defending Tulsi Gabbard being at the Georgia election office raid by saying, quote, we're inseparable, end quote, like we're besties. But she hasn't talked to Howard Lutnick. I mean, her explanation was that, you know, basically like, like. out of the hangover, you know, three best friends. But she doesn't want to claim Howard Lutnick who happened to go to the island. And she's never talked to Howard Lutnick after he just said yesterday before Congress that he and his wife and his kids and his nannies all went to the island. And he and his wife and his kids and all the nannies left the island. She wasn't interested in talking to him about what he might have seen. I mean, the whole sort of farce. that she had any interest in getting any information about any of the crimes that were committed and had nothing other than disdain for the victim. She didn't seem interested in trying to disabuse anyone of that notion today. No, she didn't. On the Howard Lutnick, I guess the good news for him is that Kevin Hassett at the Economic Advisor said that Howard Lutnick was his bestie yesterday. Someone claimed Howard Lutnick? So, yes, we got different lunch tables, I guess, in the White House where they're, you know, I'll talk about who their besties are as they run cover for each other. So gross. I just look. If you're somebody that actually did care about this, like there are people that genuinely cared about this, like either on the right or like within the kind of newer part of the Trump coalition was shorthanded with the Roganverse, right?

Trump has had to make a lot of people, you know, kind of eat a lot of crap over the last nine years who support him. That's just a part of the deal of going along with Donald Trump. But people don't like to be made to be fools, you know, and made out to be idiots. And that's what they're trying to do. They're just trying to basically say, hey, this thing that you cared about, that you told your audience you cared about, or if you're in the audience that you, you know, posted about and read about and learned about, you know, where you were concerned that. There was this elite cabal of people that were sexually trafficking young girls, of men that were sexually trafficking young girls. And now I'm here to tell you that like, Don't believe your lying eyes. Like there's not really anything more to look into. And in fact, what you should care about is that your 401k is going up. It's just like, how stupid do you think people are? In this situation, like this playbook just does not work. And they're playing their own supporters for fools. And, you know, there are to be some of them that are going to be happy to play along. I'm sure Sean Hannity will give her a good review tonight over on Fox. But a lot of these other folks. You know, they're not signing up for this. Yeah. And it's an interesting migration if Sean Hannity does align himself with her. I mean, it has been in the past, something that Republicans have talked about. You know, an elite child sex trafficking ring is a bad thing that used to not have a partisan. take on it, but I guess Pambati makes clear that now it does. Tara Palmeri, Tim Miller, Christy Greenberg, thank you so much for starting us off and watching all that with me. When we come back, how Tulsi Gabbard worked her way back into Donald Trump's good graces by spearheading an investigation into widely debunked claims of election fraud in the state of Georgia. Our dear friend Sue Gordon will be here. She's an essential voice in explaining how Trump is politicizing our country's intelligence agencies. That's next. Stay with us. There are moments that define who you are and who you're becoming, and when those moments arrive, what you drive should rise to meet them. The Range Rover Sport commands attention from the very first glance. Every line, every detail, engineered for impact. Inside, refinement takes over with sculpted 22-way heated seating with available massage and a 13.1-inch touchscreen that puts everything within easy reach. But the Range Rover Sport isn't just about luxury. It's about uncompromised performance, too. Delivering a powerful, agile drive that feels as confident as it looks. And with nearly endless ways to personalize, from interior finishes to wheels to unique colors and accessories, your Range Rover Sport becomes unmistakably yours. For those who expect more from every moment, there's a vehicle designed to meet it. The Rangerover Sport. Exclusive offers available now. Explore further atrangeover.com. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your beds and come on through. Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort in.

It's calling your name. Save on the stain. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song, book direct at sourcehiltails.com. More people, more devices, more AI. The way we live today takes a lot of energy. Wind and solar are powerful, but not always available. That's where natural gas comes in, with reliable energy whenever it's needed. Companies like energy transfer work behind the scenes, safely transporting these resources to facilities across the country through a network of underground pipelines. Learn more at it takesenergy.com. A wise and supremely well-qualified and informed friend of this show once described it to us as, quote, antithetical to the craft of intelligence. That is, going into any task or investigation with the expressed intent of reaching a specific conclusion. In other words, intelligence should guide and ground the mission, not the other way around. And yet, and yet, how else is one expected to interpret the Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, not so covertly attending a raid on an elections office in Fulton County, Georgia, one initiated, as we now know, thanks to an unsealed affidavit by a Trump administration lawyer whose previous work includes trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election in 2020. Fresh reporting in the New York Times adds new detail to the days leading up to that highly controversial raid during which the FBI sees more than 650 boxes of ballots and other election-related materials. In late January, Tulsi Gabbard was leading a meeting on Syria in the situation room when Donald Trump abruptly changed course by reminding her of an earlier chat on the subject he regarded as even more urgent. Ms. Tulsi Gabbard's role in reopening and expanding the investigation of the 2020 election. Now Trump was ordering Tulsi Gabbard to help oversee an FBI investigation of his baseless claims of irregularities in the vote. That's according to people with knowledge of the meeting. Quote, you go do that. You get it done, Trump suddenly told her. I want to bring in that supremely well-informed and qualified friend of the show we mentioned, former principal deputy director of National Intelligence, Sue Gordon, is here. I've been dying to ask you about the things you're seeing and reading about Tulsi Gabbard's presence at an FBI raid of a Georgia election office. Your thoughts? So many thoughts. Let's see if I can't be tight and focused for you today and leave some air because sometimes I don't. So first things first, the DNI has zero. zero domestic authorities. She doesn't have law enforcement authorities. She doesn't connect conduct, conduct, domestic intel collection. She doesn't direct domestic investigations, and she doesn't have arrest or subpoena or prosecutorial power. So why is she there? She has no authority to be there. She does.

have the responsibility to integrate intelligence to understand the threats that present. So she can receive information that is collected domestically to be used in assessments. And she can provide intelligence for the purpose of law enforcement, but just in their case. But she, her authorities, do not extend to this. And so. What I think we have to infer, and it's a little bit related to your last segment, is what we're seeing is the misapplication or borrowing of trust. Right. So what we're trying to do is to add legitimacy to what's going on in Georgia by taking a figure that has legitimacy, but it isn't in this thing. So they're trying to send the message that this is important, right? And we have big important people on the ground. The challenge of that is it is just one more piece of eroding the American people's trust in anything this administration is doing. Right when you cross the streams between intelligence and law enforcement, it confuses people. It erodes what the strength of intelligence is, and it confuses what it's not. And so this idea that he's going to give it to her to do. or that her presence there means he's really serious about finding it actually just is completely in the wrong direction. And I think you're seeing this, not that he's not trying to do that, and not that he's not taking advantage of the fact that Director Tulsi Gabbard kind of lives in the grade zone between authority and celebrity. The problem is she's not carrying with her in that moment the responsibility that comes with her job and not being accountable for that craft. So I think it's fine that she's there. But, I mean, it's important that we're able to understand. I asked people that I served with who worked in intelligence agencies, I mean, they were so cautious about even going anywhere domestically because it could look like they were doing. I mean, to have no domestic authorities, explain what that means. I mean, she had no authority to do anything. So I have a hard time understanding why she was there. Right. Not only does she not have any authority to do anything, all intelligence authorities are foreign authorities, right? The ability to operate overseas, the ability to hide the hand to the U.S. government, and none of that is to go after here and think about how important that is. in America and to civil liberties and the thing we're doing, you know, you almost could get to a minority report situation if you imagined that the intelligence community that is about possibility, not about proof, is now out there.

looking at what U.S. citizens are doing. So it's just a massively fundamental misunderstanding of how important that separation is. And you're 100% right. We wouldn't go anywhere near it. We just don't. So the fact that the DNI herself is there. And can I just do a brief digression? Please. Even if you believed that there was something evidentiary there that might reveal some aspect of signature of foreign participation, she's not the one that knows that. She's a political appointee. And yes, she has military experience, and yes, she's been out of intelligence committee, but she's not the person. We believed that something like that were in evidence. You know, we do. We detail an intelligence officer to the FBI to be under their control. So this is just such. at best, a misunderstanding of how government and how intelligence and how law enforcement work at best, and at worst, you're trying to send an impression of something that just isn't true. And can we just talk one more second? Wait, now we think there's foreign influence? Wait, I thought that was a hoax. Right. Right? So, I mean, we have just spent years with this administration say there's no foreign influence. And now when we want to prove that what we know was a legitimate election isn't, we're going to send the DNI. But I think the American people are increasingly onto it. And I think this borrowing of trust. is starting to be revealed and people just aren't buying it. You mentioned it in the earlier section, right? Bringing up the Dow Jay Jones average. in a hearing about the obscene files. People are getting on to, well, what are we doing here? Why would you speak on that? So I think cracks are showing, but this is just a misuse. And it leads to distrust. And distrust is how our institutions fail even when they seem to still be working. I want to ask you about some of their big developments, the six lawmakers who told men and women of the military not to follow illegal orders. They tried to indict them yesterday. It didn't go well. I also want to talk to you about what you just mentioned, that the people maybe starting in Minneapolis, but from coast to coast, are not having it. We'll have that conversation on the other side of a short break. Stay with us.

So you've been recognized this week with an award. I want to brag about you and on you in front of you. You received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Security Space Association. And you said this, quote, I'm trained as a zoologist. So what a zoologist knows is that there are moments of strategic uncertainty when it's not clear how life will go on. We're at one of these moments. And I know that our community with our history is better positioned to handle this moment. than any others. That struck me on a million different levels, but talk about this moment. Yeah, we don't, we don't, we don't know, right? The ideals of our country are as valid today as they ever were, but the mechanisms that our founders put in place that were predicated on shared norms. are showing their wear and tear. In other words, people are using the seams. And when the American people vote, part of the thing that allows the ascension of someone like President Trump is that the government hasn't been as good as it needs to be for this moment. And so, seeing that moment, recognizing that we must build new. accepting the fact that the good news is this team isn't going to probably leave us with new edifices that we need to undo, even as they might break what we had, then we have to be prepared to... find out how we're going to address our ideals newly. And I could have taken my conversation about my amazing space community. And I started in that business and worked for the icons. And so I do believe that we have real opportunity there. But I also think the American people, you hear me over and over again say, I trust the American people. And I think. We're seeing it, you know, that injuries. They're making their own decision in Minnesota. They're making their voices heard. The Olympic athletes, remember that part of being proud of the United States is proud of our heritage that we can say what we need to say even as we're proud of who we are. So this idea that we are at a moment where the future is not going to look like the past, and we must figure out how to be ready for that. Our national foundation is strong even as... the edifices that we had trusted and built our understanding on have been challenged and we're going to have to figure out how to do something with those anew.

If you were assessing America from abroad, and you looked at the weakness of our private law firms who capitulated to Donald Trump, not all of them, but a lot of the most prominent ones, one after the other, after the other, our most prestigious universities who went in and did deals with Donald Trump, gave him millions and millions of dollars, one after the other, after the other, after the other. The silence for a long time of the powerful, the acquiescence or complicity. of the most powerful and innovative minds in technology. And then you saw this Midwestern bright spot, the people of the city of Minneapolis. What would you say about America? You would say bigger balls on the people living in Minneapolis than a single one of the tech bros? You probably wouldn't say that. But what would you say? Probably not. I think what I'd say is... We are seeing how they assess this moment. They assess that the United States isn't going to be the partner it was. And our friends are having to figure out how they survive in this world if we're not the big gravitational pull. That's why you're seeing that going on. Our adversaries and competitors are saying, oh, I see now. This is all fair game. Right. Those stodgy people that used to be six in the mud when we would try and exercise our power geopolitically and used to come to the rescue of the small, well, they're not going to do that. Now they want to play in the power game. Great. We have it. So listen, we're seeing. what both friends and adversaries and competitors see in us, and I think we should be concerned as a nation that they're going to try and take advantage of that or reestablish their positions. But what we know as a nation, and what is so fundamentally different is exactly what you see in Minnesota. You know, they're not as worried about, I have real problems with the people who have made their millions, who have derived their power from the rule of law and now walking away because they think they can get it anyway without any sense of responsibility for maintaining that environment. And I think they're not going to have pressure internationally because, remember, one of the reasons why the people deal with the United States is not Donald Trump is because of how powerful America is including that innovation engine that. the tech CEOs are part of. But they will not carry us forward. And so what we know as a nation, if the Congress would continue to get their act together and do their job, if the people in tech realize that they only have their money, not because they're so dang smart, but because there's been a framework that allowed people to trade with us, and then we convince the American people that this. I can save you is fools gold. And there isn't really any there there. I think what we know and what I hope we build on is those elements of our strength. But the institutions have got to accept that we don't get to just hold what we had before and fight for what was before. We actually have to become new. But I love what I'm seeing now.

There are so much I hate. And I think people need to accept that there's no call from the governor coming as though there's going to be some revelation that's going to cause this administration to go away. No, we've had all those and it's still here. What we need to get folks focused on is all the power they have. The president can call things red or blue states, but we know they're not red or blue states. there states that that's what their people decided they were going to vote for on that day. Yeah. So I think we need to focus on them. Yeah. All right. With your help, we'll continue to do that. Sue Gordon, thank you so much for joining us today. Sue referenced it another act of bravery by an American athlete at the Winter Olympics, speaking out about what is happening in Minneapolis. We'll show it to you after a quick break. Stay with us. We continue to hear a steady drip of criticism of the Trump administration's immigration tactics from U.S. Olympic athletes in Milan. The latest comes from a member of the curling team, Rich Ruhl Honan, who is also a lawyer talking about his home state of Minnesota. Watch. We have a Constitution, and it allows us to freedom of the press and freedom of speech, protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures. makes it that we have to, you know, have probable cause to be pulled over. And what's happening in Minnesota is wrong. I want to make it clear that we are out here. We love our country. We're playing for the U.S. We're playing for Team USA. And we're playing for each other. And we're playing for our family and our friends that sacrificed so much to get here today. We love our country. We hear that over and over again from those brave athletes. We'll stand on top of that. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful. Join me, Cindy Lauper, with Chef Michelle Bernstein and Dr. Panico to talk about psoriasis and psoriotic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage. Cossentic secucinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300 milligram dose, and adults with active psoriotic arthritis 150 milligram dose. Don't use if you're allergic to cosentics. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur, like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. Some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle eggs, or cough. Had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1844 Kocentics or Kocentics.com slash Cindy.