“Georgia redistricting rejected”

This isn't the end of a fight. It's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from Taylor Sheridan, returns August 2nd only on Paramount Plus. In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives, and personal betrayals collide while Joe walks the line between duty and family. Don't Miss Lioness. Starring Zoe Saldana, Michael Kelly, with Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman, streaming August 2nd only on Paramount Plus. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. I'm standing here in Georgia. I'm a voice for Georgia. The people of this state asked me to fight for them, and so I'm going to continue to do that. So this is in the legislature's hand. It's in the governor's hand. I hope he will hear from his own people. In the meantime, I will continue to leave the door open for my colleagues in the Georgia congressional delegation to join me in Banning Chairman.

Hi again, everybody. It's now five o'clock in peace. The power of the people today. Republicans in Georgia went against their state's Republican governor and opted to scrap plans to redraw that state's congressional map ahead of the 28 election. As to why they did that, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reports this, quote, the decision comes after weeks of mounting pressure from Democrats, voting rights groups, and even some uneasy Republicans. who warned that reopening redistricting could energize Democratic voters and overshadow a pivotal stretch of the campaign season. Speaking ahead of that special session, as you just heard, was Senator Raphael Warnock, a fierce defender of democracy and voting rights in his state and in the country. Following today's move by Georgia Republicans, Senator Raphael Warnock said this, quote, John Lewis never backed down from getting into good trouble, and I won't either. Senator Raphael Warnock was first elected to the U.S. Senate alongside fellow Georgia Democrat Jon Ossoff at the end of Donald Trump's first term as president. And now Jon Ossoff is up for re-election in November. Last night, he and we learned who Osop will face in the general election, Georgia Congressman Mike Collins, who Trump endorsed three days ago, setting up a true test of MAGA's power in the peach state. Senator Raphael Warnock and Senator Jon Ossoff two historic senators in their own right, one being the first black Democrat from the South to serve in the U.S. Senate, and the other, the first Jewish senator from Georgia, stand out at this moment in our country's story for many reasons. One of them being that they were elected on January 5, 2021, just one day ahead of the deadly capital insurrection on January 6th. Senator Raphael Warnock writes about this dichotomy in his new book, The crooked places made straight, reflections on the moral meaning of America. He writes this, quote, Here's the thing. Like all families, our America is complicated. Our beloved country is both the hope of January 5th and the horror of January 6th. Both the miracle of democracy and the oppression that runs counter to democracy are right there in our charter documents. Our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights are all evidence of the enormous possibilities we represent, as well as our brutal human flaws and failures. Both days are at the very core of who we are and who we might yet become. The continuing struggle for people of goodwill in this country must be to help push this nation closer to the hope of January 5th. The hope of January 5th is where we begin the hour with Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia. Thank you so much for being here. Great to be here with you, Nicole. There's so much news to get your thoughts on, but I want to start with the book, if I may. Let me read this to you. You write this on becoming the first black senator from Georgia. Even before I began preaching one Sunday morning in June 2023, I thought about the miracle at that moment. I was about to deliver a sermon recognizing Juneteenth as a federal holiday from the pulpit of Washington National Cathedral.

U.S. presidents had addressed the nation from where I stood. Others have been mourned by dignitaries from across the globe in the sacred space. A decade earlier, I had stood there delivering the closing prayer for the ecumenical service at President Barack Obama's second inauguration. And there I was again, a black boy raised in public housing, who in the years since Obama's inauguration as a first black president had become the first black United States senator from Georgia. I love that you let us sort of grapple with our story by sharing your story. And I wonder if that's part of the hope of the conversations that emanate from the book. Well, thank you again. Listen, this book, The Crooked Places Made Straight, is a sermon. In the public square, I guess that's what you get when you elect a pastor to the United States Senate. And quite literally, it began as a sermon that I preached at the Ebenezer Baptist Church, and then I found myself preaching iterations of it not only in churches, but in synagogues, in temples, in high steeple churches, in small storefronts, in rural communities, urban communities. And as I reflected on the coming 250th anniversary of our country, I decided that I wanted to offer this sermon to the nation. You know, sermons lift us up in dark times. And these are dark and difficult days. These kinds of preachments, if you will, hopefully hope to put things in perspective. They help us to take the long view. And as I point out in the passage that you read, there I was standing in the National Cathedral and America is like a grand cathedral. Cathedrals take a long time to build. You don't, they don't pop up overnight. They take decades. And over the course of that, there are fluctuations in the economy, war might break out. And here's the thing. The folks who sign up to build a cathedral, they start and they know that they will not be the ones to finish. And yet they dig in because they have a vision of what might be possible for the next generation. America is a grand cathedral. It is unfinished. But it is our job, it is our time to keep building brick by brick. Don't give in to those who are trying to loot and burn the cathedral. Let's strengthen it so that everybody has a voice. I think what makes people so drawn to your message right now is that people feel like the general contractor of the cathedral is an arsonist. How do you keep hope and keep reality both in focus? Well, I think you need not look any further than what happened in Georgia today. I mean, Donald Trump is just, you know, obsessed with power.

for the sake of not for serving people, but for the sake of enriching himself, his own self-aggrandizement. He began this terrible race to the bottom that we're witnessing with gerrymandering in our country right now, the Supreme Court poor fuel on the fire, and the Georgia legislature, of all the things that they could have been meeting to do today, they were meeting at the governors, he called them in the session. And the meeting was about redistricting, redrawing the lines. Well, we stood up. And the people raised their voices. They've been raising their voices for weeks about this issue. And I think the Republicans lost their nerve, at least for now. They hear the thumping of people, of feet. They hear the thud and thumping of feet moving towards November. And they rightly discern that the people intend to hold them accountable. And so for now, they've tabled the issue. I think it's important because I think it's easy to give in in in a moment like this to say, well, we can't win, to give in to those who are trying to weaponize despair. This was just one example. That when you stand up to Donald Trump and you stand up to his enablers in Congress, you can win. And we had a small victory today, an important victory today. Well, I mean, it is true and the pattern bears it out that when people stand up to him, he just moves on because there are plenty of people all too willing to roll over. I think... It makes the Republicans in the Senate all the more pathetic as an observer of them. Do you see anything up close as one of their colleagues that suggests that they're at an inflection point with Trump's unpopularity, with his being on the war path against senators like Bill Cassidy and John Cornyn. Do you see anything changing behind the scenes that we don't see yet? Listen, my hope is with the people. I have watched Republicans now for more than a decade. I mean, Nicole, how many opportunities have they had to get off of this bus? Endless. Endless. When do you say enough is enough? When do you say, you know, my dignity, my sense of what's right and wrong, that I cannot, I cannot countenance this kind of... just ugliness, brazen, bigotry, unleashed in our public, the gross incompetence, having to, I mean, why would you spend the time that we have to spend? Let me tell you, it's not easy getting this job. You do a lot. Why would you work so hard to get the influence that comes with being a United States senator? And they just hand it over. to Donald Trump, no matter who he appoints, you find a way to contort yourself into a pretzel to say that this is okay. And so you end up confirming people like Robert F. Kennedy Jr..

to health and human services. And he's literally, his policies are literally killing people. And all of a sudden, we're dealing with measles. Pete Hegseth over defense or the Department of War, as he likes to call it. And now this effort where Donald Trump is determined to put Bill Pulte over our national defense. Clearly, there's no part of his job that he takes seriously. We know who Donald Trump is. This is about the character of the country. Who are we? And Republicans will not respond until the American people stand up. That's what they respond to. A change in the public mood on this issue. Donald Trump has chased all of the Republicans, you know, the folks that we used to enjoy fighting with, you know, the people you worked for, Nicole. He's chased all those people out of the party. And you don't really have a party. You have a cult. And it's really about the people. But I have confidence that the American people, as they stand up, can rescue their own democracy. And I'm certainly going to be doing everything I can as a United States senator to be their voice. Well, filling this vacuum with hope and with character and with moral leadership is something that people are so hungry for. A lot of people are hoping that you will throw your... feels beneath you to say hat, that throw your, consider a presidential run. Is that anything you think about or are you going to sort of take the temperature while you're talking about the book and bringing this message to the country? Listen, I have two big jobs. I'm the pastor of Ebenezer Church, father of two small children, and a U.S. Senator. So I'm focused on that. And while anybody would be gratified that your name gets tossed around in that kind of discussion, let me be really clear. Part of what I point out in the book, and I do mean this, this is not a dodge. I mean it. That part of what ails our politics is that we are always obsessed with the next election, not even the one we're in, but the one after that. And I understand, you know, the pundits do what the pundits do. But in a real sense, we've made politics in our country about the politicians, literally about the politicians, who's up, who's down, who's in, who's out. And I think the people in Georgia right now who are watching the prices on their groceries spike, the price of gas, spike, health care unaffordable, housing unaffordable. They're saying, who cares? I didn't send them to Washington. I didn't send them to the state capital to work for themselves. I sent them up there to work for me. And I can tell you, and I really do mean this. For me, it's a sacred honor that I get to represent 11 million people.

in the great state of Georgia. They didn't all vote for me, but I get to fight for them every single day. It is for me a sacred trust, similar to my other job as a pastor. It's about walking with the people working for them. And for the people of your state to say that since we can't all go to D.C., But we're concerned about our children. We want to make sure that they have a path towards prosperity. We're concerned about our parents, our aging parents, as they deal with both the blessings and the burdens of getting older. We're going to send you to D.C. and we're going to trust that in rooms of power... where tradesmen, you know, folks are trading and doing the things that politicians do with all of the special interests, that you're going to be thinking about us, that at the end of the day, you're going to center ordinary people. And we may not even agree on every vote that you take. But we're going to trust that you're going to try to do the right thing for ordinary people. That's my calling. And there are various ways to do that. And it's the thing that drives me every single day. Well, that sacred and basic covenant between a voter and the people who represent them is under attack as well. You've spoken out about the Supreme Court's role in that. I want to ask you about that on the other side of a break. We're going to ask you to stick around. We'll delve more deeply into the book as well. And we'll get back to those headlines I mentioned as well. The book is called The Crooked Places Made Straight. We'll talk about it more. The Senator sticks with us. Also ahead, former President Barack Obama and former first later Michelle Obama are celebrating the opening this week of the Obama President. Central Center in Chicago. Seeing them in the spotlight reminds millions of Americans about the gaping divide between their accomplishments and their dignity and the current occupant of the White House. What the former president says about how he stayed connected to the American people. That's later in the hour. The White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere today.

We're back with Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock. Senator, you said this about the Supreme Court's decision to essentially gut the Voting Rights Act to the New York Times. I think that Republicans have unleashed something potentially that they did not anticipate, the deep offense that people will feel, not just black voters, but people of moral courage, people who have a sense that everybody's voice needs to be heard. I think we may witness turnout that could completely change the math of gerrymandering. I think that's what's showing up. And we have a lot of models to ask about the economy. And that's, of course, top of mind for every American. But it's hard to measure what makes you decide to vote if you maybe skip the last election or don't always vote or weren't sure you still register, but you make sure you register. What are you seeing turned on in people's sort of desire to participate in the process that is this? perhaps unintended consequence of the Republicans' voter suppression efforts? Well, I think the Republicans are doing a good job at unleashing a kind of righteous anger that is going to stand up and say no to what they're trying to do. I mean, look at the moment we're living in. We are literally witnessing the most corrupt administration in American history. They are stealing the people's money. They are looting and burning the cathedral, if you will, and selling it for parts. And so folks are witnessing this large redistribution of wealth. I love it when folks on the right talk about a redistribution of wealth. They're not against it. The issue is which direction. They are moving the money from the bottom to the top. This is Robin Hood in reverse. This is what Dr. King calls socialism for the rich. And so folks who are watching people take their money and give it to billionaires, do not take kindly now to watching them take their vote and their voice. And you're seeing that in turnout in Georgia all across the state and the country. And so Republicans ought to be running scared. But what would be better, actually, is if they would actually do something for the people. Georgia, you know, they called the special session today. They should have been calling a special session to expand Medicaid in Georgia. 500,000 people in the health care coverage gap. I go to rural red districts all across Georgia where there are folks who didn't vote for me, but, you know, they welcome to preach it. I'm glad to see them. And I stand there, you know, at their hospital, you know, near Claxton, Georgia, and some of these rural places where their hospitals are barely hanging on because Georgia refuses to expand Medicaid. And then the Republicans turned around in the one big, ugly bill. and cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. So these rural hospitals.

are suffering. I might point out, as I think about the work that I'm trying to do in this book, you know, that right before they passed that ugly bill that cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid, cut snap, cut veterans and seniors and children, literally taking food out of the mouths of people while giving billionaires a tax cut. Right before doing that, the Speaker of the House joined with other legislators, they said a prayer. And then they went and voted for that bill. I just want to know what was in that prayer. What were they praying about? Yeah. What were they asking? What were they asking God to do? The scriptures that I read center those who are on the margins, who are on the margins of the community. And for me, the depth of your faith. The authenticity of your faith is the depth of your commitment to those that Jesus was always hanging out with, the lepers, the folks who are on the margins, women, people who were despised and rejected. What perversion has happened on the right that people of faith support the things that they're doing? Well, you know, this is not a new thing. It's deeply concerning. And, yeah, I mean, because we watched this a decade ago. And initially what we heard from folks on the right was, yeah, we know Donald Trump is not a holy vessel. But he's doing the work that we think needs to be done, and so we'll tolerate it. But have you noticed that over time, that explanation has evolved? And they're those who speak of him as if he were the second coming. Whatever Donald Trump is, he's not a man of faith. Come on, give me a break. We know better than that. But we have seen this kind of thing before. I'm a Christian, which means I know my story. I know that Christians, many Christians were on the wrong side of slavery. There were Christian abolitionists, and there were Christians who were justifying slavery. Martin Luther King, Jr., as he was pushing back the shadows of segregation and trying to liberate this country. from its worst self and free it into being its best self. He says over and over again in the letter from a Birmingham jail in other places that I'm so disappointed in the church. He said as I drive through the south and see its massive churches with its spires pointing heavenward, I ask myself what kind of people worship there and who is their God? That's the question that I would ask of my Christian sisters and brothers. There's data that shows that evangelical Christians are more likely than any other group to blame poor people for being poor. And so it's unsettling to me when you see an expression of faith in which people are angry at poor people than they are with poverty. Meanwhile, we're witnessing in real time the kinds of policies that crush the poor. And I try to lift them up not only in this book, but in my work. You know, here I said a United States senator, but I'm a kid who grew up in public housing. And my family needed snap. I'm a head start baby.

program called Upward Bounds, sponsored by a federal government, put me on a college campus as a high school student every weekend and during the summer. So I knew I could go to college because I was already there. Then Pell Grants, low-interest student loans. In other words, I had a narrow path from the projects to a great education, and now I sit in the United States Senate. What keeps me up at night is the realization that it would be harder for that kid from Cape Street. to do that now than it was then. Our country's moving in the wrong direction. The American people feel it in their gut, people on the left and the right, which is why, you know, they hired somebody to tear it up because they were frustrated with things as they are and for good reason. The problem is Donald Trump said that he would look out for families, and I guess since charity begins at home, he started with his family. He just forgot about the rest of us. Do you think people are too hardened and too distracted to thaw their hearts and see so clearly how, I mean, I went to college because of Pell Grants, too. I mean, do you think people are still capable of seeing themselves in the American story? Or do you think our politics has people so walled off from one another and from their own humanity? Well, that's what I'm calling on us to do. We have demagogues in our country right now with big microphones, and they're doing everything to divide us. They're even using the religion to divide us. My faith is not a weapon. It's a bridge. And as I talk about this spiritual crisis that confronts our country, and we really are in a spiritual crisis, I believe that the predictable trite language of partisan politics is too puny a vocabulary for what really confronts us. There's a kind of soul weariness. And the demagogues of division... They want to convince us that my interests are somehow counter to yours. And if you get what you need, I'm not going to get what I need. That is a kind of zero-sum game. And that's the game they're playing with us. And while we're looking at each other and attacking each other, they're moving the wealth from the bottom to the top, which is why I spend a lot of time in rural, often red districts. trying to talk to my neighbors. I still believe in the American covenant, I pluribus unum, out of many one. And I offer this sermon. to all of us to say that we ought to fight for each other's neighbors, that when my children are, the only way my children can be safe is for other people's children to be safe. Now, I know this sounds like a sermon, and, you know, that's what happens again when you elect the pastor to the Senate. But in my church, we have something called call and response. The preacher doesn't talk and the congregation sits there silently and listens. They talk back to me.

While I'm talking, it's called call and response. This is my call to the nation. I hope that we will respond with moral courage. People of faith, people of various faith traditions, people who claim no faith at all, but have moral courage who believe in the covenant that we have with one another as the American people, that we would stand up in this moment and save our country and move it forward. Indeed, the people are the only ones who can. Senator, I could have listened to your wisdom and your answers to these questions for the whole two hours. I hope you will come back and continue this conversation. I'm so happy to have you here to talk about your book. I think it's really important and the timing couldn't be better. Thank you so much for your time today. So great to be with you. Keep the faith. We'll try. We'll try. The book is called Crooked Places Made Straight Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America. When we come back, it is the eve of the grand opening of the President Barack Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. And with the Obama's back in the spotlight this week, we're getting a very clear reminder of the dignity and moral clarity. We should have a right to expect from our leaders. that we don't have in Washington. We'll show you what the former president told our colleague, Michelle Norris, about how he stayed connected to the American people while he was serving as president. We'll have that for you after a short break. Don't go anywhere.

This isn't the end of a fight. It's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from Taylor Sheridan, returns August 2nd only on Paramount Plus. In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives, and personal betrayals collide while Joe walks the line between duty and family. Don't Miss Lioness. Starring Zoe Saldana, Michael Kelly, with Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman, streaming August 2nd only on Paramount Plus. Hey, everybody. It's Roblo here. If you haven't heard... I have a podcast that's called Literally with Roblo. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever. you get your podcasts. Watch Disclosure Day at Home Now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you? Would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to seven billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Kep starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. Tomorrow in Chicago, a project that has been nearly a decade in the making will come to fruition with the grand opening of President Barack Obama's Presidential Center. You'll be able to watch that event tomorrow live right here on MS Now. And unlike the current occupant of the White House, President Obama has found no trouble securing top-level entertainment and artists for tomorrow's ceremony. They will include performances from a star-studded lineup featuring Stevie Wonder and Bruce Springsteen, Christina Aguilera, John Legend, Jennifer Hudson, Common, The Roots, Eddie Vedder, and U2's Bono and The Edge. My good friend and colleague, Michelle Norris, got an exclusive preview of the presidential center and had a wide-ranging conversation with President Obama. In this clip, President Obama describes his favorite exhibit at the center. It showcases some of the 40,000 letters he would receive from the American people every day.

And so there's a display that has a sampling of those letters, but the exhibition team made this wonderful short video, this vignette, of a few of those letters. And... And whenever I watch those, because it's mother talking about, you know, Mr. President, I'm struggling. And it's a vet, you know, who's still trying to find his path after he's no longer serving. And people are really... raw in their emotions in some of these letters, partly because they don't expect the presence actually got to read it. It's almost like a meditation for them, a way of getting stuff off their chest. And so whenever I watch that, I get kind of... Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I get choked up. You're getting a little... Yeah. So... Choked up now. If there's one thing that... People should take the time right after the Oval Office, which everybody will go to just so they can take a picture of the apples and everything else that might be in there. Sit in your chair. Sit in the chair. Just come around on the side and there'll be those letters and there will be a... a video that's looping. And take the time to watch that. Because I think that, as much as anything captures, what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was.

Well, what a difference. Joining us from Chicago, Norm Eisen, he worked for President Obama, a special counsel for ethics and government reform. He's now the executive chair and co-founder of Democracy Defenders Fund. Also joining us, Democratic Strategist and Columbia University Professor, Political analyst Basil Smichael, who is a trustee at the FDR Presidential Library. Norm, what's it like to see this unveiled for the whole country to see? It was amazing to have the run of the building today. President Obama was there with Michelle and his daughters. He was showing it to his daughters for the first time. The artists were there, the curators, and it was incredible. My favorite. exhibit was there's an original print of the Declaration of Independence. And I love the way the presidential center tells the story of American history and the act of becoming America and then locates the Obama presidency in that trajectory. It gave me a great deal of hope for the future of our country, despite these challenging times we always discuss, Nicole. Yeah, Basil is certainly a perfect moment to have the Obama's back in the news. Let me show everyone, because Michelle Obama has been in the news this week because of the heinous comments at the UFC fight. Let me just remind people why she's so beloved and why the right is so obsessed with her. Here she is last night talking about her mom and her husband. I am so proud of my husband.

He's really messed up. I'm giving him some time because this beautiful skirt that my stylist Meredith Coop picked out, that is a portrait, my favorite portrait of my mom. He didn't know it existed until just a few minutes ago. Marion would have been so proud. She was so proud of her son-in-law. and the man that he is and has been to our family, always dreaming probably way too big, but always pulling it off. Thank you for doing this for the south side of Chicago. I love you. I mean, Basil, everything that the country is hungering for. I mean, Senator Raphael Warnock's book is about being vulnerable enough to want our moral center to lead us out of this moment, really. The Obama is really on the receiving end of some of the most vile. attacks from the most powerful people in our politics right now. The Trumps and all their enablers are their corporate enablers who've been silent in the smears of Michelle Obama this week. And there they are this week, still putting themselves out there in service of the country. It's a remarkable thing to see. Well, I think you hit it on the head. It's in service to the country. It's not about self. And that's why actually it's really important to note that this is a presidential center, not just a presidential library museum. It's not necessarily a testament to them. It's really... an open door to let the country in, to remind them of a moment in our history when we were all incredibly optimistic about the future, right? You know, it's kind of hard to remember that moment of time, given what the last 10 plus years have been like. But there was a time when we were all talking about hope and change. And even if you were skeptical about the ability of America to be post-racial, it's at least something that we were talking about. And so that's why. the center is so important because it honors that optimism. It just doesn't honor the president and the former president of first lady. It also honors the community that he came from. And that's something that, you know, listening to your interview with Senator Raphael Warnock really resonated with me because the senator talked about this narrow path that he felt that he was on. And I think in some ways for so many people, including me, is a black man in this country, that you feel that you have to consistently walk this. narrow path, that there is a fine line between success and prison, not just failure, but prison or death. So you have to be so very careful in every step you make, in every turn that you take. And in many ways, that was the Obama presidency, right, balanced on the head of a needle or a head of a pin. But he walked that line. He did everything he needed to do and still was excoriated by, you know, so many people that

just out to bring him down and to sully the name and the country that he represented. And I think this center is able to create this kind of opportunity for a pilgrimage for people to come and remember what is possible in this nation. To remember what's possible. And I think if you look at everything that President Obama has said in the context of the last three presidential elections, too, to understand what's on the line, what's on the line in this fight for our democracy. No one's going anywhere. We'll continue this conversation on the other side. But I want to remind everybody that we're going to have live coverage of the grand opening of the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. Join us for that. It's tomorrow at 11 a.m. Eastern. Then on Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern, our colleague, Michelle Norris, will host a special behind-the-scenes look at the center. It'll feature the interview I just played for you, the full interview, with former President Obama and former First Lady. Michelle Obama. We will be right back. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast. That's called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen, wherever you get your podcasts. I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard-Hitrilo-pre-filled syringe, which contains F-Gar-Tigamodalpha and highlaronidase QVC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's My Treatment, My Way. Visit Vivgardmyway.com. That's V-Y-V-V-G-A-R-T-M-Way.com. And talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrullo, brought to you by Argenics. Summer is for spending time with friends and family. Whether it's dinner on the patio, a girl's night, or a last minute I get together, it feels like there's always something on the calendar. Total Wine and More is always part of my plans. I'll usually pick up a couple of wines I love, maybe a ready to serve cocktail, and something new to try. I get everything I need in one stop. And there's always a great selection to choose from. With the lowest prices, I can say yes to every summer get together. Shop total wine and more and get ready for your next summer gathering. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina drink responsibly must be

We're back with Norm and Basel. Norm, when you watch the Obamas and you watch Obama get choked up talking about the letters sent to him by the American people, and people don't always write the president, you know, with comments that are happy. Lots of times they're upset or grieving or frustrated, and that that's the most meaningful exhibit to him. Like, the contrast isn't even in the same arena as a president who... voice an octagon on the south lawn and takes paid sponsorships for pay-per-view cage match to celebrate himself. How did we get here? Well, I think that the contrast that you described between a presidency dedicated to the public service and, you know, putting political differences to the side, we had a run of presidencies like that. We were very lucky, in a sense, in the post-World War II era, Nicole. And through a series of, of really tragedies, including a failure to reckon with the effects of globalization on the American people and a con man par excellence who exploited some of those American tragedies. We've ended up with a presidency that for the first time, whatever party you may be. affiliated with the first time that we've had a presidency that is principally dedicated to the personal interests. Donald Trump, his cronies, and his enablers. So that is a tragic accident of history. But when I walked through that Obama presidential center today, I spent hours there. I really did. was reminded that we've had a kind of roller coaster ups and downs in American history. And we've always managed to resume the path towards achieving our promise as a nation. And I think, you know, when I look at the courts in our over 300 cases and matters at Democracy Defenders Fund and Action, they're pushing back, they're helping us get back to that place. Basil, your last thoughts on this day. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. We've got to, you know, I always talk about this. You got to go local. I heard a podcaster say the other day that this president is so focused on Caesar Rome and not Pope Rome because he thinks that the sort of pugilistic. path in policy and politics is the thing that's going to make America great. But again, going back to Senator Raphael Warnock, you know, one of the things that he's done extraordinary well, and you could see others like Jon Ossoff, the James Talarico and others take the mantle from this, is how do you deploy faith?

in a polarized America, right? How do you talk about stewardship and justice and re-examining that social contract? Incredibly important. And that's what the center is going to remind us of. Norm and Basil, thank you so much for joining me today. A quick break for us. We'll be right back. My guest on this week's episode of The Best People podcast is journalist Don Lemon. We talked about everything, including the state of the media to the state of Donald Trump. Take a listen. He doesn't really know what's going on. He doesn't read his briefings. You know that. But he has this picture of the reflecting pool next to a bunch of buildings. And he's like, my pool is bigger than New York City's buildings. It looks like a swimming. Is it even a picture of? Like a longer body of water than three buildings. But to me, it's like, again, like who made that for him? Like he wanted a picture of the pond compared to like three buildings. Yeah, one of those people who are angling to be in there. What is it a picture of? It's a picture of a hole in the ground. It's the cement pond. It's a picture of a body of water that is longer than not other bodies of water, but three buildings, not in D.C. They think it's good. And they're like, he'll have a prop. Give him a prop. He's like a kid. It's like when you have a kid, right? When you hand your kids, the iPad, that's what they're doing. We should update that because now that body of water has turned green. We'll bring you that story tomorrow. We had a lot of fun in the conversation. If you want to hear the whole thing, just scan the QR code on your screen to listen now or download the best people wherever you get your podcast. Listen to it and let me know what you think on Instagram or Blue Sky. One more break. We'll be right back.

Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast. That's called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen, wherever you get your podcasts.