“A reminder of who the U.S. Military is supposed to serve”

Have you ever wanted to share your opinions with MS Now about our TV programs, podcasts, live events, and more? Now's your chance to have your voice heard. Join the MSNow Insights community at MS. Now slash insights. We are unique among the world's arms. We are unique among the world's military. We don't take an oath to a king or a queen or a tyrant or a dictator. And we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution. And we take an oath to the idea of this America and we're willing to die to protect it. Hi again, everyone. It is 5 o'clock here in New York. I'm Iman Mohiddin in for Nicole Wallace. When the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that you just saw there, General Mark Millie, made those comments, they were notable for more than one reason. There was, of course, the important message that he was sending. that the United States military serves this country and its constitution alone, not any individual. But his words were also powerful because he was the one saying them, a man who only wanted to serve the nation, not weighed into partisan politics. So it is also notable that his successor is speaking out with concern about what he is witnessing from our current administration. Retired Air Force General Charles Q. Brown, who served as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs after General Millie and was fired by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth back in February of 2025, is the co-author of a new piece in foreign affairs about the value of America's military. And just like General Millie, he doesn't have to use names for us to know who he is calling out. In part, he writes, when presidents use the armed forces for more politically contentious missions, such as addressing domestic crime in cities, the work of the military becomes more fraught. Resorting to a military solution rather than fixing the underlying incapacity or dysfunction in civilian institutions diverts the military from focusing on its primary combat mission. And as George Washington knew, it is not the military's job to save the republic from political impasses. Indeed, if you ask too much of the military, you risk the entire enterprise. Yet that's just what we have seen this administration do. Risk the enterprise of the United States military by treating it as a tool to be used by the White House. Trump has famously called military generals my generals. He used servicemen and women as political props. He put uniformed service members on the streets of Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, and Chicago to police American citizens. He involved our military in conflicts abroad and a war in Iran without first consulting Congress.

What we have witnessed by this administration is a politicization of something that was once sacred. As tomorrow marks the 250th birthday of this country, it is important to remember and honor those who fought and served to protect our rights and freedoms. Our friend General Mark Hurtling writes about what July 4th means to those in uniform. Quote, every Independence Day taught me something different. I learned that service requires sacrifice but also rewards it. I learned that America's ideals can inspire former enemies to become lifelong allies. I learned that liberty is often best understood by those who live closest to its absence. I learned that friendship between nations is built. on shared gestures at one at a time. I learned that even in war, soldiers are ultimately defending peace. What makes independence stay different to those who wear the uniform is not those who serve and love America more than anyone else. It's that they spend much of their lives seeing just how extraordinary and how fragile freedom can be. And that is where we begin this hour. Military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hurtling is here. He served as the commanding general of the U.S. Army in Europe. Also joining us, U.S. retire. retired U.S. Army Captain and Iraq War veteran Alison Jaslow and former Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs during the Obama administration political analyst Rick Stingl is with us. It's great to have all three of you with us. General, I'll start with you, General Hurtling. We'll get to your piece in a second, but first, how meaningful is it that the former chairman, Chairman CQ Brown, is speaking out about this warning on this day? Amen, I read John Brown's and Pete Feber and Craigl's piece, and I thought it was very well-founded. I'm sorry. I thought it was very well-founded and very concise.

General, I think we lost your audio. Maybe I'll give you just a second to adjust that. And I'll bring in, Alison, if I can. Do you agree that the military and that assessment by the former chairman that the military has become too politicized at the moment? I got you now. I'm sorry, that was my bad. I didn't bring my mic around. It's all good, General. I'm just giving Captain Allison a chance to respond and I'll get, I'll come back to you. I mean, I think his broader point was also that, you know, the civilian sector needs to step up and solve civilian and, you know, American societal problems as well. And so I think you have two issues here. the current administration wading in in areas that they shouldn't. I mean, he also mentioned in that pace that there were presidents of both administrations who were using the military for COVID response. And I think the larger question here is, is what should the military should and shouldn't be doing? And what do we risk in terms of degrading the force when it wades into, you know, especially American cities, regardless of your viewpoint on how the military is being used to solve that problem? It does tarnish and also degrade the effectiveness of the military. And honestly, the image and trust that the military has in, that the American public has in the military. General Hurling, I think we've got you back. Go ahead. I'll let you continue with what you were saying about what your thoughts were about the chairman making those comments the way he did at this moment in time. Well, Allison said it very well, I mean, but what I'll add to that is General Brown and Pete Fever's article was very well grounded. But it actually listed some things that I would consider some warning lights, some triggers that might be happening. And as Allison said, we've seen both parties use the military in improper ways. It's concerning me that there are more. times when the military is called in to do things that other civilian authorities should do. Now, the military has a mission. There is something called military support to civilian authorities. That happens when you need personnel for hurricanes or tornadoes or humanitarian relief or even some issues where riots get out of control and you can guard facilities with them. But I think what we're seeing over the last several years is more and more the military drawn into missions. They should be nowhere near things. And I think that's what General Brown was stating in this article. When you start politicizing the force and when you understand the implications of doing that with an institution which pleasures its allegiance to the Constitution and defending the American public, you're going to have some concerns because. The army, the military is there for all of our citizens, not just some. So when you have a political party or someone in charge of a political party or any government official using the military as backdrop or background or implying that they belong to him or her, that's just flat out wrong and it's going to cause danger.

So to that point, General, let me just follow up on that and ask you. I mean, I know that we have politicians who always want to ingratiate themselves with our military. It's common that they use our military in many different ways. But you have this president who is unique at the way he's exploiting and using the military for political purposes and sometimes as props in certain situations. How dangerous is that? And what is the role of the military brass? in rejecting these types of exploitations? Well, what I'd say, amen, first of all, is yes, President Trump has done that at a significant level over the last, his first administration and even now. He's put military personnel behind them. All politicians do that. They want to be associated with the institution because the institution is so strong. But it's been carried to a new degree. I think, under President Trump during this term. And it's also been affected by Secretary Pete Hegseth and some of the things he's doing in terms of the kinds of orders he's issuing, the kind of implications he's suggesting in terms of legality and lethality and some of the other kinds of things that he talks about are not in line with the American military culture, in my view. So all of those things are dangerous, and we've got to be careful. I'll add one more thing. The American population is basically trying to put themselves alongside the military. And many people that haven't served want to use the military as kind of their backdrop, if you will. There's a lot of vet bros out there and people doing wannabe issues. I mean, we even have military flyovers at football games and baseball games and those kind of things that aren't associated with the military. That's great in terms of baseball. seeing your patriotism and the support for the military, but it often goes too far with a lot of people wearing camouflage and thinking they're part of the military when they don't have the training to be part of the military. Rick, the U.S. military is obviously a force known around the world. Our adversaries are probably watching what is happening to our military and seeing that it has been increasingly politicized. How dangerous is that politicization? I think it is dangerous, Amon. And, I mean, the military is perhaps the most meritocratic institution in our society. And to put it in the context of the holiday, I mean, the Declaration of Independence says many times the problem was that you had an autocratic leader of England who stationed troops in American homes that didn't have civilian leadership of the military. The founders created something new under the sun, this idea of civilian. control of the military where the president, an elected president is the commander in chief, that Congress declares war and funds the military. This was something absolutely new under the sun. And this today, where the military is being politicized, I think my colleagues are being discreet and General Brown is being diplomatic. I mean, you have the Secretary of Defense getting rid of officers.

because they're officers of color, because they're women, which is absolutely not meritocratic, which is political. The punishment of the firing of the general recently because he participated in the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Just absurd. That was civilian control. He was following orders. He was doing the right thing. So when our adversaries see us politicizing the military, they recognize it because authoritarian countries reward people because of their political views. And when you have the American military where people get generalships, where they get chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff because of their politics, that is a renunciation of everything this country stands for. Captain Jasla, I want you to reflect on these July 4th celebrations and what this moment means is somebody who was served when you kind of take stock of where our country is on its 250th anniversary. Well, first of all, you know, General Hurtling wrote another great piece that I think posted today about how members of the military oftentimes don't get to celebrate the Fourth of July. You know, you're looking at somebody who, in 2005, lit sparklers before myself and my soldiers rolled out the gate on a convoy. And so, you know, I think I, you know, appreciate our freedom as much as most members of the military. And we know how pressure it is, as it was discussed, you know, earlier in this segment. But for me, you know, on this 250th, you know, it's... This is a country I love that's going through a very difficult time right now. And I am as patriotic as anybody that I know. But it is hard to sort of take in what's happening in our country right now, whether it is in Washington, D.C., where I am, where people are so divided while there is this, you know, over-the-top pageantry happening that is appreciated by some, but, you know, not appreciated or welcomed by so many others. And so I think what I'm reflecting on this Fourth of July actually is, is how we all deserve better leadership. And that's just not in the White House. General Hurling, Captain Jaisal mentioned your piece. And I wanted to ask you about that. I mean, you go through the many places that you have been, that you have served while it had been July 4th at various points in your career. Talk to us about what this 250th anniversary means to you and you reflect on it in this moment that our country finds itself in. Well, what I tried to do in the piece, Amon, is talk about the different locations I was during a four decades-long career. And it was interesting to me, even the very start of it, began at West Point. And on the 4th of July, four days after we entered as new cadets, we listened to the 1812 overture on a place called Trophy Point. That was a place that George Washington defended.

against British ships coming down the Hudson River. So when you heard the cannons, you know, most people will hear that wonderful piece by Chikowski and just think it's wonderful how he incorporated cannons in that. But what I was thinking on that particular day is at a place and a time, at the time, 200 and I guess it was a little over 200 years back then, you know, we were sitting on a spot. where the nation was born, before the Constitution was signed, before the Declaration of Independence was signed, and yet there were people fighting for it back then. And then fast forward to other locations, like Allison said, in Iraq, where we didn't have sparklers, but al-Qaeda sometimes provided the fireworks on 4th of July, or in South Korea when I was there one time and watched a nation that was just kilometers away from North Korea, a dictatorship. Or when I was in Germany, that was just a few decades past World War II that had completely turned themselves around and were celebrating democracy and liberty alongside of us. And it just caused me to reflect on some of the things I was able to see during a career and how much more that declaration of independence in the Fourth of July means to me besides just a barbecue and a swimming pool on that particular date. Yeah, a very important point. Rick, there was this wild moment from J.D. Van speaking in front of troops at Virginia Beach this week. Take a listen to this and I'll get your thoughts. You know what I'm thinking as I'm coming down the steps is don't fall and bust your ass in front of all you and in front of all these cameras because they would never let me live that one down. You know, the previous president. I'm trying to be nonpartisan. You ever see these old cartoons where you've got the angel on the shoulder and the devil on the shoulder? Well, because I'm speaking to all of you are great patriots and service members, I've got the angel on my shoulder saying, JD, don't be partisan. We're going to make this nonpartisan. And then I've got the devil on my shoulder who wants to talk about every time that Joe Biden fell up or down the stairs. And the media didn't care about that, but if I did it one time, if I did it one time, it would be a major, major story. Rick, put aside the fact that that was just so tasteless and not funny, it was inappropriate to say in front of service members. And it goes to the point that I was saying that this administration uniquely uses the military as a prop in these types of situations and exploits them to its advantage. And by the way, Amen, it's the politician's job to listen to the better angels of his nature, as Lincoln said, rather than to have a debate between the devil and the angel. For 250 years, we've observed a tradition where presidents do not criticize their predecessors or anyone of the opposite party in front of the military. That same tradition applied to presidents when they're overseas and they don't criticize their predecessor or the opposition. Donald Trump has done more of that in his two terms than all of the history of the Republic. And again, to go back to our point of the politicization of military, this is something that is disturbing to our allies because they look at the American military, again, as this great meritocratic institution that runs according to the values. When I was in government and worked with members of

of the military. I never knew whether they were Republicans or Democrats or whatever they were. They were competent. And anytime you have two or three star generals, they are amazingly competent people. And the fact that Secretary of Defense is getting rid of people that other people in the military decided should be commanding officers is. All right. The panel is staying with me. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. When we return, what happened when an active duty Air Force officer took a stand against Donald Trump calling for his impeachment, conviction, and removal from office? We're going to have that story. Also, it sounds like a fever dream from the far right, but there's growing concern that Donald Trump and his allies are building a false narrative that will allow him to try and take control of the midterm elections, with some of his most loyal allies are saying. in right-wing media and why we should all take notice. And the cost of your July 4th barbecue is way up this year. Donald Trump failing to get control of the high prices plaguing Americans. Prices he promised to bring down how much more it will cost you later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break, so don't go anywhere.

Home to the Rachel Maddo Show. Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust. MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world. Learn more at MS. Now. A remarkable scene unfolded on the Capitol steps this week as U.S. Air Force Major Jason Watson was arrested on Wednesday by Capitol Police after calling for the impeachment and removal of Donald Trump and JD Vance. As the Military Times notes, active duty service members are strictly prohibited from engaging in partisan political activities, especially while in uniform. uniform per the uniform code of military justice. Those who do can face criminal or administrative punishment, such as imprisonment, loss of pay, dishonorable discharge, and more. Before his protest on the Capitol steps, Major Watson gave this statement. I am calling on average Americans everywhere to peacefully exercise your First Amendment rights and mass every day until this administration is removed and our Democratic Republic is restored. I believe in America. I believe in us. If just a nobody, like me, can take a stand for our Constitution and our Democratic Republic, then you can too. I hope you will join me in the defense of our republic. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We are back with General Hurtling, Captain Allison Jaslow, and Rick Stengel. General, I'll start with you on this. Obviously, the rules are clear. He was not supposed to be doing that, but it also speaks to the severity of the moment that a member of the armed forces was willing to risk it all just to be able to express his opinions. Give me your thoughts on what you make of that moment. My thoughts are that he was dead wrong. I got a message this morning from someone saying, what a brave thing this Air Force Major did. And my response was, no, what a dumb thing this Air Force Major did. By wearing the uniform, he is representing the military. It gets exactly to the point we were talking on the first couple of minutes of this segment. Amen, it's the fact that you don't wear the uniform and use that uniform for political purposes. no matter what your rank is, whether it's a private or a four-star general. And for him to go in Washington, D.C., make that announcement. I'm certainly happy that he has such a heartfelt feeling about what he would like to happen in the country. But when wearing the uniform or when saying you're an Air Force officer or even an Air Force enlisted person, you don't stand in front of a microphone and use those kinds of words. This is the other side of politicalization of the military. And it's just flat out wrong. And there's regulations.

and legal implications for this major. And, you know, he's going to suffer the consequences, rightfully so. Captain, I want to get your thoughts on this as well, and I want to play some more of what Major Watson said. He called out what he feels to be the administration's wrongdoings, and it's not a short list. Take a listen. Denying congressional oversight of immigrant detention centers that look increasingly like Seacot. suing institutions like media, colleges, and law firms for billions of dollars while abusing the authorities of the executive branch agencies to extort settlements, allowing a mega donor to advertise products on the White House front lawn. trading pardons for donations, levying illegal tariffs, weaponizing the Department of Justice against political adversaries while ignoring crimes of supporters and enablers, attempting to reverse birthright citizenship through executive order. For all of these high crimes and misdemeanors, the president and vice president must be impeached, convicted, and removed. Captain, your thoughts on that and how we got to this moment. You know, I'd say, first of all, I'm a large part in agreement with the general. I mean, this individual, you know, is brave in a sense to put himself out there, but he didn't write an op-ed. And by doing what he did on the Capitol steps recently earlier this week, he has much put the military and the political crosshairs as the current administration is doing. And so I think, you know, a lot of what has been discussed, especially in the piece that you mentioned about CQ Brown. earlier in the show is we need to hold the line across the board. And it has a national security imperative. You know, if we can't keep the health of our force and especially maintain the American public's trust in the force, then all will be lost. And so I think, you know, I would encourage your viewers to view this through that lens while also understanding that this gentleman obviously is very passionate about the moment that we find ourselves in this country. Rick, what is the right way to protest this administration? Obviously, this particular way of protesting violates all kinds of norms and codes. But as I was saying, it also reflects the desperation that many people in this country feel this administration is abusing its power. And people want to find ways to protest in every way, shape, or form. Well, Amin, I remember during the Vietnam War when you had veterans who protested against the war, where you had veterans who tossed their medals away. None of that politicized the military because they weren't in the military anymore. I'm 100% sympathetic with the sentiments of the officer. but I'm in agreement that he was politicizing the military by wearing his uniform. I think it undermined his cause. What he could have done was resigned from the military there, appeared in civilian dress. And ultimately, it could be considered a free speech issue. I don't know if anybody wants to test the idea of whether a military officer could be punished for exercising his free speech, but I suspect this Supreme Court...

Wouldn't defend that. All right. Lieutenant General Mark Hurling, Captain Allison Jaslau, Rick Stengel. Thank you to the three of you for joining us on this holiday. We can really appreciate it. When we return, what Donald Trump and his allies might be plotting as a way to take control of the midterm elections, their plan is beginning to surface in right-wing media. And we're going to tell you about it after a quick break. Stay with us. Home to the Rachel Maddo Show. Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust. MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world. Learn more at MS. Now. Donald Trump's desperation to silence voters and their deeply unpopular views of his presidency has hit an alarming and dangerous new low with a new report about how Trump's MAGA media allies appear to be laying the groundwork for Trump to take control of this fall's midterm elections. Media Matters writes this. Quote, right-wing media figures such as Steve Bannon, John Solomon, and Clinta Mitchell appear to be weaving together a narrative about interference by China in U.S. elections to justify a national emergency to curtail voting rights. Here's an alarming sample of that. Watch. If they can't cheat, they can't win, correct? You agree with that? 100%. The reason he ain't there and Bill Pulte is to get to the bottom of the 2020 stolen election. Stop talking about the SAVE Act and do a national security emergency for elections. But also Bill Pulte, this is why trying to stop him at DNI. Why the firestorm to stop him and the shutdown Solomon? Because if you want to have an executive order. that could withstand a immediate court challenge and be overturned. You have to lay out a pretty definitive predicate for that. And you heard the name there a few times, Bill Pulte, suggesting that Trump's newly installed acting DNI is heavily involved in this plan. Media Matters writes this, quote, the main players here come not only from the fever swamp, backwaters of MAGA Media, but also from the office of the director of national intelligence. and the White House. I want to bring in Media Matters for America President, Angelo Carousone, and with me here at the table, former attorney for the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, James Sample. He is currently a law professor at Hofstra University. Angela, I'll start with you. What more can you tell us about the details of this plan and how MAGA Media is laying the groundwork for just by having the discourse about it? Yeah, and look, I mean, we should also keep in mind here that it's not, you know, the people that were outside trying to overturn the 2020 election.

are now inside the administration actively helping to disrupt it and sort of thwart. So a lot of this is through a lens of not just what they're saying on the outside, but how it's working in tandem with these official positions. So people on the outside are now running a task force. As you noted, Bill Pulte, who's now the DNI, and the storytellers have kind of signaled what he's there to do, which is to help sort of... be part of this three-part sequence. One is to manufacture a predicate, sort of create the evidence. They're not going to try to find it. They're going to manufacture something. Then the thing that they seem to be centering around is this idea that China interfered in the 2020 election, and they're going to sort of uncover by declassifying a whole bunch of what is supposed intelligence that reinforces and improves that. So that's the first thing, manufacture the predicate. The second then would be to use that to declare a national emergency. And then the third part of it is to impose by decree what they haven't been able to get passed legislatively or what has been sort of pushed back in the course of these executive orders. So that is parts of the SAVE Act and to try to further support and disrupt the election. And that's it. And they are echoing it on the outside. They're signaling all of what they're planning to do. And they're beginning to move the machinery into official parts of government to actually execute it. James, I mean, whether this potential plot is successful or not is almost kind of beyond the point because this is a person in Donald Trump and many of the people around him who are election denials, deniers, they try to overturn an election once, and now it seems they're laying the groundwork for more of the same. How seriously should we be taking this kind of talk or should we just be dismissing it as nothing more than media fodder? Put it this way, Jack Smith is not someone prone to hyperbole. And exactly 24 hours and 10 minutes ago on this program, on this station, he told Nicole Wallace that he is very concerned about the midterm elections and the integrity of those elections, not because of external threats, but because the internal apparatus of our government is actually, as Angelo just said, participating in laying the predicate for creating those fears. And I want to be very clear about one legal aspect of this, Amon, which is to say, just saying that there's an emergency is not some talismanic thing that you can waive that invokes all sorts of other powers. There are emergency powers and statutes that grant emergency powers, but they are specific statutes. So there's a National Emergencies Act. It does not mention elections. There's Aeepa. That's the statute that Donald Trump tried to use to implose. the global tariffs. And when the Supreme Court considered that, it noted the word tariffs isn't in there, the word tax isn't in there. Well, you know what else isn't in there? Elections, which is to say that in order to invoke emergency powers, you need to have congressional statutory authorization. So to Angelo's point, forming the predicate, what he referred to as step one, is absolutely their plan. Step two is where they are legally flawed, even beyond getting to step three. But to your point, what they're trying to do will not be legal and will not be something that the law authorizes, but the executive can almost always outpace, outrun the courts.

That's the problem. So they can succeed in this, even if they fail legally by creating the fear, by taking the action, and then it's almost too late. And letting the courts catch up. I mean, they have the ability to shape their reality on the ground and letting the courts play catch up through the various proceedings. They can outrun the law and then turn around and say, well. Yeah, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Yeah, absolutely. Angela, the reporting mentions that Steve Bannon's podcast colleague, John Solomon, who NBC News reports as part of a team gathering thousands of intel documents to give Trump an opportunity to amplify new accusations about past elections. And we're seeing this dangerously play out in a state like Georgia as well. What do we know about the relationship between the White House and the ODNI and podcasters like John Solomon? I mean, that's the question here, right? Because let's keep in mind, they've been signaling what Bill Pulte is there to do, which is to get to the bottom, is to be a participant in this. What Solomon's task force is supposedly designed to do is to declassify documents, to uncover intelligence that proves that the 2020 election was stolen or manipulated by China, in particular is what they seem to be settling on. And so some things happened in the last 24 hours, but from the DNI, where they started to afford. fire career intelligence officials, analysts, for withholding information. Now, what information are they claiming they've been withholding? We have no idea. They haven't said anything about it. But it certainly lines up with the types of activities that Solomon is designed to get to the bottom of or help expose the very people. that would be identifying this internally or saying, hey, there's no evidence to back this up are the types of people that they've been purging from the DNI's office and the intelligence community in the last 24 hours. So this is part of the synergy. And the last thing I'll just note, Because this is the part that I find really revealing. There was a qualified director of national intelligence that was appointed by Trump. And his nomination was ultimately withheld to get confirmed so that he could put this acting DNI in place, Bill Pulte, whose only qualification seems to be that he knows how to weaponize government offices for political purposes. And Steve Bannon has been saying all along that he's their guy to help execute this. So there's an intense synergy here where the storytelling, the The media apparatus is beginning to sync up with these government entities. Something that was, you know, a podcasting is now operating under a presidential seal. And that's it. That's it. They're almost one of the same. James, let me ask you about that that is taking place. The ODNI and Bill Pulte, the acting DNI, and Donald Trump basically saying, you know what, I kind of want him to be in this acting role because he's able to kind of move fast and break things quickly without having the, you know, confirmation of a Senate process and having that teased out and having everything on the record with him. And now we're seeing the dismissal, as our Vaughn Hilliard was reporting earlier, of some of these intelligence officials.

And as Angelou said, we don't know why. And so where is the law in all of this? The law is supposed to kind of safeguard and protect these institutions, protect these people, protect these processes. And we're not seeing it to your point earlier that it's just so hard to catch up. Yeah, well, as Melissa said earlier and Vaughn said earlier on your program, legally, Bill Pulte has a lot of power as an acting DNI and not necessarily a ton of accountability. So to Angelo's point and to their point, Melissa was pointing out that because of the way the process works with DNI, he can effectively be acting for as long as they need and certainly can be acting through the midterms. But every lawyer learns one thing in their first year of law school in the constitutional law class. Angelo certainly learned. this. That is, in April of 1952, Harry Truman tried to seize the steel mills. And what was his basis? Well, the Korean War and a pending strike that could have yielded a serious shortage of steel. Serious national security implications. What did the court say? Ketanji Brown Jackson wrote an opinion, one of the most famous opinions for evaluating presidential exercises of power. That there are three categories, a sliding scale. And when the president is acting inconsistently with the express will of Congress, by the way, Congress has repeatedly, as you know, rejected the Save America Act. That's what they're trying to do by using emergency powers. That is where presidential power is at its lowest ebb. So is it possible they can outrun the courts? Yes. But will it be illegal and unconstitutional in every way if they try? Yes. And so we don't want to give up hope that the courts and the people can stop that. Yeah, and certainly do the right thing. James Samples. It's always great to have you. Thank you so much, my friends. Great to see you. Angela, you're sticking around for us when we return as Donald Trump celebrates an unprecedented level of wealth and self-enrichment. The rest of us are spending more and more time. Just trying to get by the high price of being Americans this 4th of July. I feel badly in a way from my kids because every time my kids do, if they invest in a stock or if they go and do a bill, anything they do. Because the presidency is so powerful, so big, everything, if they buy a cupcake company, well, the energy to make the cupcakes is, you know, sort of like, how's my energy policy? So therefore you have a conflict. Almost anything they do, if they want to buy a truck, if they want to buy, you know, if they buy an energy efficient truck, if they have inside information. So. it's pretty tough in that sense. I tell my kids stay away from as much as you can stay away from, but they also have a life. Yeah, Donald Trump there, telling the American people where his sympathies lie at a time when the rest of the country is struggling to afford some of the most basic American traditions. The economist is out with their annual barbecue index, and their findings reveal that the cost of a traditional 4th of July barbecue across 25 cities in their sample.

is 12% higher than a year ago. The fastest annual increase in a decade. I want to bring in Chief Washington correspondent and host for my distouch. Scott McFarlane, Angelo is still with me. Scott, it's good to have you with us. The latest poll from The Economist highlights a record low approval rating for Donald Trump when it comes to his handling of the economy with a disapproval rating of a staggering 63%. What do you think is the biggest driver behind this? He was so close there, Eamon, so close. The issue is the cupcake costs $6 now. I mean, it's clear to people. These costs are not sustainable. You can't pay $6 for the cupcake for the box of cereal, $10 for the stick of deodorant, and continue to do all the other things you need to do in life. There are literally, Amen, I checked dozens of pending pieces of legislation to try to lower food costs, gas costs, college costs, housing costs, even a bill to lower the cost of college books and texts. These things are all sitting idle because Trump and Republican leadership have absolutely jammed up the Congress. Stalmated it with his requests for the Save America Act and a slush fund. Congress can't pass those so they can't pass anything. The costs are clearly driving these approval numbers. And the question is with 122 days left until the elections, how much will they mobilize voters to vote who wouldn't otherwise go to the polls? Yeah, and you brought up the point of legislation very important, but also getting us into wars that are driving energy prices higher, the cost of fertilizer higher, making it more expensive for farmers to grow their crops. It just goes on and on and on, Angelo. And on top of that, Americans are struggling. Donald Trump has earned $1.4 billion on cryptocurrency. Those are the headlines. that we're seeing, the question is, are they getting through to regular Americans who are trying to get by? Are they seeing the kind of deals that his family and his associates are out there making in the Middle East, in technology, in these spaces that most Americans cannot access? Yeah, I mean, what they're feeling it, it's unavoidable, right? So, you know, the Iran war and the rank corruption and the competence on a paper plate. I mean, that's what everybody's seeing right now as they go into their barbecues. They're feeling it every day. And then your question is the thing that's on point is, are they connecting those harms to Trump, especially in the context of his larger greed and, you know, sort of the self-dealing. And the answer is they're starting to. I mean, if you listen, I pay a lot of attention to what callers are saying to right-wing media. and C-SPAN in these places because it gives you a little bit of a keyhole view into that zeitgeist. And they're complaining about it a lot more, not just the cost, but the self-enrichment. I mean, Trump's basic excuse for why he made so much money here is, I have a lot of money. And that's why I made so much money. That's not what people need to hear right now. I mean, it's certifiably out of touch and reinforces the very thing. And that's where the regrets.

start to move along to something more akin to defections. And that's when it really matters in terms of action or consequences. All right, Angela Carousone and Scott McFarland. Thank you to the both of you for being here this afternoon. We're really appreciate it. We're going to have a quick break and we'll be right back. Stay with us. This weekend marks a major milestone, 250 years of American freedom and independence at an unprecedented moment when it all feels especially fragile. Tonight, we have a special celebration of our nation and reflection of its current state with our friends and colleagues, Rachel Maddow, Jen Saki, and Ali Velci, and special guests, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and civil rights attorney, Cheryl and Eiffel. Here's just a preview of what you'll see. Americans in our DNA. Our foundational value, the thing that makes America a place, the fact that the thing that makes Americans Americans is that we fight fascism, we fight tyrants. We did it back then. We do it still now. We just passed the anniversary of the very first No Kings protest. That huge crowd that came out right here in Philly. Look at that.

That was you guys. Philly, Philly was the flagship city for the first No Kings Day protest, which will go down as yet another seminal date in the history of fighting fascism in Philadelphia. And of course, Philly was the flagship, right? Philly is the city where we first said no kings 250 years ago. We the People, America 250, country at a crossroads, airs tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern. You do not want to miss that. And thank you for spending this Friday with us. We are grateful for your time as always. Ever since I was young, I've watched people working hard, chasing opportunity, making sacrifices, doing everything they can to build a better life. And now we're shining a light on what matters most. Our economy, our national identity, our democracy, our future. The stakes have never been higher. It's all on the line. On the line with Alicia Menendez. Weekdays at 12 p.m. Eastern on MS Now.